Prostate Cancer Screening and Outcomes | Impact of Racial Disparities

Prostate Cancer Screening and Outcomes | Impact of Racial Disparities from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What do prostate cancer screening and outcomes data show about racial disparities? Expert Dr. Yaw Nyame with the University of Washington shares research data about screening and treatment outcomes for Black populations and the importance of early detection.

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What Can Signal Hormone-Sensitive Advanced Prostate Cancer?

Advanced Prostate Cancer Clinical Trials _ Why Black and Latinx Participation Is Vital

Advanced Prostate Cancer Clinical Trials | Why Black and Latinx Participation Is Vital

Transcript:

Lisa:

So, Dr. Nyame, are there racial or ethnic differences in the incidence, screening outcomes, and/or treatment of prostate cancer. And can you talk about those a bit.

Dr. Yaw Nyame:

About prostate cancer demonstrates the widest racial disparity of any cancer in the United States. Black men are more likely to be diagnosed with prostate cancer, about 60 percent to 80 percent more likely, and they are more than twice as likely to die from prostate cancer compared to the average U.S. population.

When it comes to data on screening and treatment, there’s mixed data available of differing quality, but what I would say is that Black individuals, Black prostate cancer patients seem to be less likely to receive definitive treatments or treatments that can offer cure, and they’re less likely to have screening performed and perform a PSA testing, and I think a lot of the outcomes that we see reflect that lower use of early detection, finding cancers early through PSA testing, which is a blood test and lower utilization of treatment for when people are diagnosed with curable cancers is a really complex topic that I could talk about for a really, really long time, but suffice it to say that Black populations have among the worst outcomes of any cancer, when we look within prostate cancer and we know that other populations that have social disadvantages also can have worse prostate cancer outcomes as a result of the social determinants of health and other structural determinants of equity. When it comes to racial disparities and prostate cancer my activation tip is to be knowledgeable and aware.

Be knowledgeable and aware of what’s happening in your community with regards to prostate cancer and what’s happening in your family, because family histories are really important, not just to prostate cancer, but all cancers that may run in the family, because I think the first step is understanding what your individual risk is. And then that allows you to then make plans and educate yourself around things like, well, I do PSA screening to try and get my cancer detected early, if I’m at high risk, should I get treatment if I am diagnosed? And all the other things that come downstream. So really the awareness is absolutely critical, and I think having conversations that don’t seem like routine family dinner conversations, like, did grandpa have prostate cancer? Those are things that we need to normalize.

[ACT]IVATED Prostate Cancer Post-Program Survey

Let’s Talk About NETs 

Neuroendocrine (NET) cancer is a challenging diagnosis for patients, care partners, and medical providers alike. On NET Cancer Day, our Director of Marketing and External Affairs, Nicole Normandin Rueda, shares her family’s NET story. We are so grateful to Nicole for her candid account of her family’s experience, and for the passion with which she serves the cancer community. For information about neuroendocrine cancer organizations, please see below.  

Nicole’s Story

Throughout my life, I have seen firsthand – both personally and professionally – what true inner strength is. I walked alongside my dad through his battle with pancreatic neuroendocrine tumors and held his hand as he took his last breath. I have also stood alongside patients with rare vascular malformations as they hear news of a poor prognosis or been seated with the parents of a 5-year-old patient who was so full of life, that no one could even begin to comprehend the significance of a diagnosis like DIPG with a 0% chance of survival. I guess it’s safe to say that I have seen my fair share of illness and adversity; however, in each of these scenarios, I have also been fortunate enough to see some incredible moments of hope and encouragement. Today, November 10, 2023, World NET Cancer Day, I am here to share a little bit of my experience, and what I have learned along the way to remind all of us that no one is in this alone.  

“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand” – Dr. Randy Pausch  

As many who have any experience with NET cancer know, it is often the delay in receiving a proper diagnosis that is one of the initial challenges. This was no different for my dad, taking over a year from the time he first reported symptoms to the time of his official diagnosis. In early September 2005, my dad saw a gastroenterologist in Laredo, TX after he was unable to keep water down for a week. The doctor did an endoscopy and saw what he described as “scar tissue lesions” on my dad’s stomach and decided to prescribe Nexium to lower his astronomically high gastrin levels. Fast forward to January 2006, the doctor recommended that my dad stop the Nexium to ensure the gastrin levels lowered. Within three weeks of stopping Nexium, my dad was throwing up again. Finally, after more than three months of scans, and the requirement that my dad carry medical documentation explaining his “atomic state” from all the nuclear testing, it was determined that my dad had Zollinger-Ellison Syndrome, which we were told could cause tumors. This realization created the momentum to get my dad referred to MD Anderson for treatment. He was informed he met protocol, and we made the 6-hour drive to Houston, TX for the litany of tests required before MD Anderson would provide clarity on diagnosis and treatment.  

At the time, we were looking for all the answers, and MD Anderson was able to confirm that my dad had Stage IV Neuroendocrine gastrinoma tumors with the primary site in his pancreas and metastases in the liver and lymph nodes. In hindsight, it is astonishing how little our family knew when it came to cancer treatment, language/jargon, protocols, etc. My paternal grandfather had just passed away from mouth cancer that metastasized to his brain, so it was not that we were naïve, but we just had no idea what aggressive treatment for Stage IV cancer looked like. My dad was 52 years old at the time, and he was my hero – a symbol of perseverance and strength. He was the Vice President of Operations at a manufacturing plant, he walked 18 holes of golf in 108-degree weather because he enjoyed the exercise – he thought he was invincible. He was also very stubborn – so much so that 20 years earlier, he was insistent on teaching himself Spanish and did so in a matter of months so that he did not have to rely on paid translators for his job. Initially, we all felt overwhelmed – we got the diagnosis, but we still wanted answers. There is a reason that I strongly discourage families from consulting Dr. Google –I can remember googling neuroendocrine carcinoma originating in the pancreas and only seeing information on Stage IV Pancreatic Adenocarcinoma, which was discouraging, to say the least.  

That feeling – you know the one, like you have just been sucker punched in the gut – is very familiar when I reminisce on this time in my life. Quite literally, I stopped breathing for a second, it was a moment of panic and fear, a future flashing before me without my dad in it. It happens to the best of us – the news of a cancer diagnosis is life-altering in so many ways for each person in the family. And so often, the person delivering these messages can be a little numb to the impact their words are having, these oncologists see new diagnoses all day, every day. At the time, there was such limited information available on NETs that it got to be confusing and quite frankly, disheartening. My mom tells the story of an oncologist trying to help us differentiate his diagnosis by explaining that my dad had the ‘best kind of the worst kind of cancer’. Infuriating, and not helpful. For all intents and purposes, at the time, he had pancreatic cancer. There were quite literally no resources that we could find for his NET and the pancreatic cancer resources we did find were limited at best.  

Instead, what got us through the first 2 years was hope. Despite the rollercoaster of emotions that a Stage IV cancer diagnosis is, my dad’s mindset was to focus on finding the strength to overcome the odds and keep a positive outlook. It was the attitude with which my dad, and so many others, chose to have throughout the life-changing cancer diagnosis that gave everyone in our circle a sense of strength. My dad went from feeling invincible to wanting to cherish every moment he could, he knew that cancer was now a chapter of his story, but it was not going to write his book. Don’t get me wrong, he had days where he was mad at the world, but he also had days that he was grateful for the chance to fight another day alongside his favorite people.  

“So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. “ – Steve Jobs 

As so many impacted by cancer know, the struggle to keep the faith and positivity is the difficult part. The fact that one test result can disqualify you from a potentially life-saving treatment is distressing. It was difficult to remain positive when there were medical professionals giving us information that was borderline incomprehensible. We asked his medical team if it was okay to record all the updates they were giving because while we knew the words coming out of their mouths were important, we had no idea what most of them meant. This was a game changer, and something I encourage every single patient and family member to do if their medical team allows it. If not, ask for everything in writing (either printed or via a portal). As PEN says, the best cancer care happens when you’re empowered to ask the right questions at the right time. The person who did this was my mom – she was the one making sure my dad took all his meds, ate enough protein, and asked all the questions she needed to ensure we walked out of the room feeling like we were part of the decision-making process. Having a strong care partner is invaluable – but finding a support network (if you don’t already have one) is equally as important.    

That is the thing about cancer, it takes so much away from everyone it impacts. The ability to keep faith and trust in something (whatever that may be) is incredibly difficult. There are so many situations that are just unfair – from not meeting protocols for a new treatment option to being pushed to extend life that has no quality because you do meet certain protocols. It is overwhelming to think about the infinite possibilities. What can be helpful is to focus on the things you can control and trust yourself. Cancer cannot take away the relationships with those around you. Personally, I am grateful that a Stage IV NET diagnosis was not able to take the memories I made with my dad, the priceless gifts that I keep with me every single day. I have no regrets – I carry him (and others whom I have met along the way) with me in everything that I do. My advice to others when asked how I have been able to cope with the incredible amount of loss I have experienced in my life is to make sure you stop and appreciate the moments and record the memories. There are opportunities every day to spend some one-on-one time with those around you – especially those impacted by cancer. This journey is not one that anyone can or should get through alone. Whether it is finding a support group, finding a counselor, talking with friends, or spending time with your pets (that was one of my dad’s favorites), it is so important to seek opportunities to connect with others.  

Over the next 5 years, my dad beat all the odds. He kept up with his quality of life for nearly all his remaining days – being able to attend my brother’s wedding, watching me graduate with 2 degrees, and spend LOTS of one-on-one time in the car with my mom going to/from Houston for treatments. It was not until early 2012 that we were told there were no additional treatment options, and we had to start thinking about palliative care. Up until that point, my dad had been doing well – he completed 10 rounds of 5FU chemotherapy, his lifetime limit of radiation, five surgeries, and a clinical trial. This is where my professional training as a social worker comes into play. Again, hindsight is 20/20, but at the time, since my dad looked so healthy externally, we never had in-depth conversations regarding his wishes when it came time for hospice and palliative care. My mom, thankfully, had the wherewithal to make sure my dad’s wishes were respected, along with advance directives, etc., but as a family, we did not explore palliative care options.  I don’t think he was offered palliative care until, in my opinion, it was no longer a palliative care situation. The last weeks of his life were incredibly difficult for all of us. The decisions we made, as a family, during that time were the product of painful discussions with a 59-year-old man who was in unbearable pain. He did the best he could, and we were alongside him every step of the way. He was able to take his last breaths surrounded by those that loved him the most. I have dedicated my career to ensuring other families impacted by cancer have the psychosocial support they need.   

Rare cancers, like NETs, have some incredible resources and support networks that can be transformational for people with cancer and their families. Don’t be afraid to ask for resources. Hospice and palliative care teams can also be incredibly helpful, and at times will overlap. Palliative care is meant to enhance a person’s current treatment by focusing on the quality of life for them and their family. Palliative care teams are multidisciplinary and comprised of doctors and specialists, as well as social workers, chaplains, and nutritionists who will provide as much support as needed to improve quality of life and is a fantastic opportunity for patients to be active participants in their medical treatment.  

If you got this far into this blog post, I would like to make sure you walk away with these words – Surround yourself with people who you love to help you be proactive in making decisions that impact your journey. It is critical that patients and their families are empowered to understand their situations, feel confident to ask the right questions and be an active part of the decisions that need to be made. It has been 10 years without my dad, and I would give just about anything to have him by my side today, instead, I am able to carry my dad’s legacy with me, still doing my best to make him proud. Hug your loved ones extra tight today, on World NET Cancer Day and try to remember that you are not alone. I leave you with this piece of advice from my dad, Mike Normandin, that I often turn to on especially tough days, “Stay positive. Life is about choices. Make choices that are going to make you happy…Love is the most important thing in life…”  

P.S. If you want to hear him give this advice, feel free to check out this advocacy video my parents and I made over 12 years ago or this clip from my hometown’s local evening news (apologies in advance for the poor-quality audio).

Neuroendocrine Cancer Organizations

Thrive | Advice for Managing Potential CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects Resource Guide

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Download Resource Guide

See More from Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

CAR T-Cell Therapy | How Can Care Partners Provide Support?

CAR T-Cell Therapy | How Can Care Partners Provide Support? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Care partners are essential members of the CAR T-cell therapy team. Expert Dr. Shambavi Richard explains some specific ways that care partners can support their loved ones during the treatment and recovery processes.

Dr. Shambavi Richard is Co-Lead Physician for the Myeloma CAR-T Programs at Mount Sinai Tisch Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Richard.

See More from The Care Partner Toolkit: CAR T-Cell Therapy

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How Has CAR T-Cell Therapy Transformed Myeloma Care?

How Has CAR T-Cell Therapy Transformed Myeloma Care?

What Are the Steps In the CAR T-Cell Therapy Process?

What Are the Steps In the CAR T-Cell Therapy Process?

Understanding the Basics of CAR T-Cell Therapy

Understanding the Basics of CAR T-Cell Therapy

Transcript:

Katherine:

You mentioned the role of the care partner, and you’ve talked about the recovery process and how involved it is. What do you feel is the care partner’s role in helping a patient through the process?  

Dr. Richard:

I think much of it is emotional and psychological support. I think that is very, very key. But in terms of actually what they do, we do ask that they have a caretaker available 24/7 if possible at least for the first month or so following their CAR T. And this is because they need a lot of support going back and forth from wherever they’re residing whether it’s a hotel or whether it’s their own home because there are a lot of clinic visits during that time.  

We do ask that the patients don’t drive for at least the first month, maybe even the first couple of months following the CAR T because again they can have neurological side effects that may be somewhat subtle. Their judgement may be impaired, but they may not look that different. So, a caretaker who knows them well is very useful in saying, “There’s something weird about how Joe’s acting lately,” or something like that. So, that’s very important as well to bring them back and forth and to manage all of these. And if there’s a problem in the middle of the night, if they’re having new fevers, they’re suddenly neurologically altered, they do need a person to be able to handle things and bring them in and get the adequate medical support.   

Katherine:

What questions should care partners be asking if they begin the process? 

Dr. Richard:

I think a good understanding of all of those.  

So, whatever that takes for each individual person. We have patients of various different kinds who have come to us, some who have researched it and really know what’s going on out there, and others who are comparatively, “What is this CAR T thing? We have no idea what this is all about.” So, I meet each one where they are. I go over the entire process. I touch on all the different things that we just spoke about. I talk about the logistics of it. I talk about the timing.

One of the traffic jams is being able to get that initial fresis slot to be able to even send the cells to the manufacturing. So, there’s a question of managing the resources and making sure that patients are getting to their CAR T slots in a timely manner. So, a good part of it is an understanding that all of this is not something that happens overnight. There is several moving parts. There is a way, and their system, and a way that all of these have to be aligned.  

So, I pretty much answer whatever they have, but I think questions touching on all of this. And finally, they exact thing that you asked, “How is it that they can help? What are the things that they can do to help?” And I think that is hugely important as well.  

Katherine:

Yeah. Why is it so important that care partners let the care team know about any changes in the patient? 

Dr. Richard:

I think the earlier we know of changes, the better. We can handle these things. There is a time sensitivity to a lot of this. If issues that happen are not addressed right away, they can evolve to more severe condition. And once if they’re more severe, they’re less likely to respond right away to the therapeutic maneuvers that we have. So, I think that’s really important.  

And if they’re outpatient, we do bring them in for hospitalization right away. If there is anything that is – the delayed forms of these side effects can sometimes be also a little bit harder to resolve and turn around. So, it’s important that they come back to the hospital right away, get admitted for the workup, so that we can escalate the speed at which things can be done.  

Katherine:

Being a care partner can be overwhelming at times. Do you have any advice to help care partners as they cope with their role?  

Dr. Richard:

There’s a lot of support groups. I really encourage them to start talking to a social worker right away. So, our social workers really do get engaged in the process pretty early. There are many different kinds of support groups. There are support groups that are myeloma specific, and then support groups within those that are offshoots for CAR T patients, so people either thinking of going through a CAR T or in the middle of it or even post CAR T.  

All the anxiety of the monitoring and, “Is the disease going to come back?” And that can weigh heavily on the caretaker as well. So, an emotionally supported caretaker and patient just makes it a lot easier for everybody including the medical care teams to be able to handle all of this. 

What Are the Steps In the CAR T-Cell Therapy Process?

What Are the Steps In the CAR T-Cell Therapy Process? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

CAR T-cell therapy is a multi-step procedure, but how does it work? Expert Dr. Shambavi Richard walks through each step in the process and explains tests commonly performed to monitor treatment results. 

Dr. Shambavi Richard is Co-Lead Physician for the Myeloma CAR-T Programs at Mount Sinai Tisch Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Richard.

See More from The Care Partner Toolkit: CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Understanding the Basics of CAR T-Cell Therapy

Understanding the Basics of CAR T-Cell Therapy

CAR T-Cell Therapy | How Can Care Partners Provide Support

CAR T-Cell Therapy | How Can Care Partners Provide Support

How Has CAR T-Cell Therapy Transformed Myeloma Care?

How Has CAR T-Cell Therapy Transformed Myeloma Care?

Transcript:

Katherine:

Yeah. Well, now that we understand a bit more about what it is, let’s walk through the process. When a patient goes through CAR T, what happens first? 

Dr. Richard:

So, the first step is being referred to a CAR T physician. Right now, CAR T therapies can only be done in certain tertiary care institutions, not even all tertiary care institutions.  

They have to have the ability to manage and process cellular therapies. So, that’s limited right there. So, patients have to be referred to centers, so actually do these CAR T kind of therapies. Once they meet with the myeloma physician who deals with CAR Ts as well, then the way it works in our institution is then we assess them for which is the best kind of CAR T product the patient may be eligible for. Are they eligible for clinical trials? Do they fit the profile for clinical trial? Are the patients willing for clinical trails? If not, are they candidates for one of the commercially approved products? As I said, there is specific criteria. Patients have to have had at least four lines of therapy to be able to receive a commercially approved CAR T product.  

If that is the case, and once the process has been explained to the patient, they have to go through all the financials, the insurance approval. These are very expensive propositions. So, the insurance goes through all of the criteria to make sure that they will approve the product. Once the insurance approves, they also going through the institutional approval process to make sure that these are again being done for the right patient, and that they go through the institutional approval.

There are several patient specific characteristics. For instance, we want a patient who has the support structure to be able to support a therapy like this. They have to have a good performance status. They have to be relatively able to be able to handle these kinds of therapies. I went through all of those side effects that are possible. We look at their cardiac status. We look at the neurological status.  

We look at the pace at which their disease is escalating because these are again advanced patients. So, if somebody is relapsing very quickly, they may not have the time to wait to get to a slot for the apheresis, and then to wait again for the manufacturing to happen. So, we look at all of that. We look at their kidney function. And then finally in terms of their psychosocial, do they have their caretakers, the support system? Where do they live? Are they able to access our center? Are they from out of state?

If so, how are we going to manage during those initial months until they’re able, stable enough to be discharged back to their referring physician? So, we look at several things, so we have multiple teams of people, social work, pharmacy who looks at all of these different – and explains the pharmaceutical aspects of all of this, our finance team, our coordinators who put all of this together.  For the apheresis, we are involved with an apheresis team.  

And then the cell therapy lab that processes the cells, the vascular team to put in the lines required for the apheresis. So, there are several, several groups. And then if we need to get a consultation from our expert cardiologist or neurooncologist, we need to have those teams involved as well.  

Katherine:

How long does it take to know whether the treatment has been successful? 

Dr. Richard:

So, we get a sense depending on what their blood markers look like, we can get a sense within the first month if the patient is actually responding to the treatment or not. I generally wait for the first three months to do a actual formal assessment with their bone marrow and their PET scans and everything else because right around then they’ve gone through the initial acute post CAR T period. And so, at the time of the bone marrow we assess what it looks like, we send for a test called MRD which is minimal residual disease to see where they’re at with that. 

And PET scans to look at any areas of skeletal lesions or even extramedullary disease that they may have. So, I would say within the first month we get a sense, but by three months we do that first formal assessment. 

How Has CAR T-Cell Therapy Transformed Myeloma Care?

How Has CAR T-Cell Therapy Transformed Myeloma Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How has the emergence of CAR T-cell therapy impacted myeloma care? Expert Dr. Shambavi Richard explains which myeloma patient groups could benefit from CAR T-cell therapy and shares research updates from recent clinical studies. 

Dr. Shambavi Richard is Co-Lead Physician for the Myeloma CAR-T Programs at Mount Sinai Tisch Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Richard.

See More from The Care Partner Toolkit: CAR T-Cell Therapy

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CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Are Potential Complications

CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Are Potential Complications?

CAR T-Cell Therapy | How Can Care Partners Provide Support

CAR T-Cell Therapy | How Can Care Partners Provide Support

What Are the Steps In the CAR T-Cell Therapy Process?

What Are the Steps In the CAR T-Cell Therapy Process?

Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Richard, how is CAR T-cell therapy impacting the landscape of myeloma care? 

Dr. Richard:

So, as I’d hinted or alluded to previously, prior to CAR T cells appearing on the horizon, we had very limited options for patients who had had the first several lines of therapy.  

So, once they had been exposed to two proteasome inhibitors, two iMiDs, and then anti-CD38 antibody which is the three major class of myeloma drugs, they are then called triple class exposed or penta-exposed depending on how many of these drugs they’ve been exposed to.   

We had a study called the MAMMOTH study back – this was published back in 2019 prior to the era of CAR T cells and other T-cell directed therapies. And at the time they had looked at patients who were triple class exposed, and who had been exposed to daratumumab were refractory to daratumumab as their last line of therapy. And what we saw was with their next line of therapy or whatever else was available at the time for patients such as these, their expected response rate was only about 30 percent or so, number one.  

Two, their outlook was very poor with a median progression-free survival which means that the amount of time that patients could go without the disease coming back, and that median progression-free survival was less than six months. And their expected even median overall survival was well under a year. So, that was what the landscape looked like when CAR T cells came onto the scene. For instance, the CART2 trials, which is one of the approved products which is cilta-cel which is what we have now, we actually saw for this same group of patients, the response rate was now 98 percent.  

Deep responses were 83 percent. And we now have the final readout of their median progression-free survival which is almost three years. So, you can see a significant difference.  

Under six months, media progression-free survival to three years. And over 50 percent of the patients were living over three years. So, that’s kind of where we are at. I mean so it was no small improvement. This considerably kind of almost reset the bar and has given a new lease of hope and life to patients who had advance myeloma. And one of the things we say in myeloma is although we don’t, as yet, say that myeloma’s curable, we are working towards that. But we are also giving options for other treatments, other research to be effective in patients just by keeping them around longer.  

Katherine:

Have there been any recent research developments involving CAR T-cell therapy that patients should know about? 

Dr. Richard:

Absolutely. So, much as I have highlighted all the hope and the optimism and the good things about this, the fact is we’re still not curing people with these therapies.  

So, we called this a plateau in the survival curve which means that if we achieve that plateau, that means the disease is probably not coming back, and we have essentially the definition of cured. But we’re not seeing that. We’re still seeing a downslope in the survival curves of myeloma which means that patients are still relapsing in spite of these excellent therapies.

So, there’s a lot of research going on into why are patients still relapsing? Is it because they’re losing the antigen which the CAR T cells are recognizing? Is it because the CAR T cells are no longer effective even though the antigen is still present? Is it because there’s a considerable lag time between the patients being freezed or collected, the cells being collected for the genetic modification in the lab to the time when the patients can actually receive these cells? And that can be anywhere between four to eight weeks.  

So, during this time period, patients with advanced myeloma may not remain static with their disease. The disease is progressing. They’re getting worse. They may not be candidates for these kinds of therapies. So, one of the areas of research is how can we speed up this process, this manufacture process? How can we make it much more available? Because they’re limited by the manufacturing facilities, their abilities to have these viral vectors, to be able to transduce these cells and genetically modify.

So, can we take them off of those kinds of things? Can we automate this? Can we improve these manufacturing platforms? So, a lot of different things are being tested. And then as I’d also mentioned earlier, right now they’re approved for advance myeloma, but what if we can bring them up earlier? Are patients actually going to get cured by that? Are they going to have a much better progression-free survival with that versus waiting until they’re very advanced? So, these are all many, many things that are being looked at.   

In addition, a lot of these CAR T products, these approved products, all them are all recognizing one antigen on the myeloma cell. Now there are products are being looked at that are dual target antigen recognition ability. So, that’s another thing. So, maybe if the CAR T cells are missing one of the antigens, and they’re not able to use that to kill the myeloma cell, maybe the other antigen can pick up the slack. So, these are various things that are being looked at. 

CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Are Potential Complications?

CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Are Potential Complications? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

CAR T-cell therapy may cause complications and side effects that their care partners should be aware of ahead of time. Expert Dr. Shambavi Richard reviews possible side effects, including cytokine release syndrome, and how patients are monitored during their hospital stay post-procedure.

Dr. Shambavi Richard is Co-Lead Physician for the Myeloma CAR-T Programs at Mount Sinai Tisch Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Richard.

See More from The Care Partner Toolkit: CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Understanding the Basics of CAR T-Cell Therapy

Understanding the Basics of CAR T-Cell Therapy

How Has CAR T-Cell Therapy Transformed Myeloma Care?

How Has CAR T-Cell Therapy Transformed Myeloma Care?

What Are the Steps In the CAR T-Cell Therapy Process?

What Are the Steps In the CAR T-Cell Therapy Process?

Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Richard, what are the potential side effects or complications of CAR T-cell therapy? 

Dr. Richard:

So, there are several possible side effects with CAR T therapy.  

It’s a little different from an autologous transplant. And I bring that up just to say because they are both cellular therapies, so are frequently compared and contrasted with autologous transplants which we have had for about three decades now. So, the main side effect after CAR T therapy is something called CRS or cytokine release syndrome. So, that happens when CAR T cells recognize the myeloma cells and kill them. A host of chemicals called cytokines are released in the body. And this can make a person feel like they have a bad case of the flu. So, it may be things like fevers, chills, body pains, headaches, loss of appetite, nausea, fatigue.

So, these are some common symptoms of cytokine release syndrome. But these are the milder forms, so in more severe cases of cytokine release syndrome, you can have things like drop in blood pressure, drop in oxygen levels, needing supplementation with oxygen.  

Or in terms of drop in pressure, they may need fluid resuscitation or sometimes even pressors, blood pressure medications that help to boost the blood pressure. So, that’s one major side effect. Another is something called neurotoxicity.  

So, you can have neurological side effects from CAR T therapy which when it occurs in the setting of CRS, that’s called ICANS or immune effector cell-associated neurotoxicity syndrome. That’s what that acronym stands for. And it has a constellation of symptoms such as confusion, disorientation, difficulty with some common everyday tasks. The handwriting may go off, attention deficit, things like that. But then in more severe forms of ICANS, you can actually have lethargy, coma, seizures, brain edema, so much more scary things.  

Then there is another form of toxicity called delayed neurotoxicity which looks completely different. Now you have things like Parkinson’s disease or neuropathies. Either cranial nerve neuropathies or peripheral neuropathies, Guillain-Barre which is a kind of ascending paralysis. So, all of these are also possible as neurotoxic side effects from CAR T therapy.

Aside from these, there is another which is called HLH or macrophage activation syndrome or hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis syndrome wherein patients can have organ toxicity, a spiking ferritin levels, new fevers, new neurotoxic symptoms, additional lab abnormalities such as liver function test abnormalities. So, these are other forms of just general CAR T-cell toxicity.   

Then in addition to these, you can have infections, prolonged blood count abnormalities, cytopenia as we call it which can affect the white cells or the platelets or anemia and things like that. So, these are also possible. And then finally things like second primary malignancies which can happen, other malignancies that can happen that may be related to CAR T therapy. A lot of these are still being studied. We don’t have a good understanding of how frequently this happens. But these are all possible side effects of CAR T therapy.  

Katherine:

Do any of the complications have to result in hospitalization? Or can patients be treated outside the hospital?  

Dr. Richard:

So, the way things stand now, and this may be slightly different depending on the specific CAR T product.  

But we generally keep patients hospitalized for the first two weeks after the cell infusion. Most of the side effects such as the CRS and the ICANS tends to occur during this hospitalization phase. HLH and delayed neurotoxicities can occur while they’re still in the later phases of the hospitalization, or it can occur late after they get discharged from the hospital. Infections and cytopenias of course can happen for a while following CAR T therapy.

Once they are discharged from the hospital, we ask that they stay close to us, usually within an hour or two of the hospital so that they can quickly come back in if there’s any issues. We see them quite frequently once they get discharged from the hospital. I see them at a minimum of once a week, more frequently at least a couple times a week, or even three times a week depending on what their blood count needs and monitoring needs are.  

So, we have them stay close to the hospital if they are far away. And the sponsor and our social worker, insurance can work together to figure out how to help them with the hotel costs if they have to stay close to us. So, that’s for an additional two weeks after they’ve discharged from the hospital. Following that, patients go back to their homes, but we still follow them quite frequently depending on what their needs are in terms of possible side effects. 

Understanding the Basics of CAR T-Cell Therapy

Understanding the Basics of CAR T-Cell Therapy from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

CAR T-cell therapy is an exciting new option to treat multiple myeloma, but what patient type is this therapy right for? Expert Dr. Shambavi Richard defines CAR T-cell therapy and explains the eligibility requirements.

Dr. Shambavi Richard is Co-Lead Physician for the Myeloma CAR-T Programs at Mount Sinai Tisch Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Richard.

See More from The Care Partner Toolkit: CAR T-Cell Therapy

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CAR T-Cell Therapy | How Can Care Partners Provide Support

Transcript:

Katherine:

Let’s begin with the basics of CAR T-cell therapy. What is it? And maybe, actually, we could start with what CAR is short for.  

Dr. Richard:

So, CAR stands for chimeric antigen receptors, so CAR T cell is a chimeric antigen receptor T-cell therapy. What that means is T cells, which is one of the cells for immune system are actually come from the patient. They’re expanded and activated in a manufacturing facility. And there they undergo genetic modification to form the CAR T cells. And what’s special about the CAR T cells is that they have the capacity to recognize myeloma cells and are efficient killers of the myeloma cells.  

Katherine:

Who might this approach be right for? What determines eligibility? 

Dr. Richard:

So, interestingly enough, today as we speak, CAR T cells may be eligible for many, many different kinds of – in the phases, many different phases of the myeloma journey. When they were initially tested, as most new therapies are, they were tested on patients who had very advanced myeloma, really were not candidates or did not have great options for any other kinds of therapy. And when they got tested in these groups of patients, they really had stellar results that far outstripped anything else that we had as options for patients in those advanced stages of myeloma.

So, the approval for CAR T cells as they stand today for myeloma is for advanced myeloma with patients who have had four or more lines of therapy and have had exposure to pretty much the major three classes of therapies for myeloma which includes proteasome inhibitors, imides, and anti-CD38 antibody therapy.  

But having said that, now CAR T cells are being moved into earlier lines of therapy are now being tested in these in various clinical trials. And even for newly diagnosed myeloma patients to see if they are as good as autologous transplants. Are they better than autologous transplants? And so on and so forth. So, really that’s what I mean by saying for now CAR T cells are appropriate for anyone if they are candidates for clinical trials. But in terms of approved indications for CAR T therapy, those are for advanced myeloma patients who have had at least four lines of therapy. 

Dr. Sameh Gaballa: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can cancer experts help empower patients? Expert Dr. Sameh Gaballa from Moffitt Cancer Center shares his perspective about the role of physicians and why patient empowerment is essential in shared decision-making for treatment.

See More from Empowering Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP)

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Dr. Ana Maria Lopez Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients

Transcript:

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

So our role as physicians is really we have to put in front of the patient and also the referring physicians all the information and all the options. And at the end of the day, it’s really the patient’s choice. But our role is to try to walk them through it so that they have the…all the information and all the tools they need to make the right decision for themselves. Because not every patient is going to be the same. There’s always going to be other factors that we have to consider that the patient would really be the one that knows about them so social issues or someone who travels a lot or a caregiver situation.

So all these things, because we’re dealing with human beings at the end. So when we’re trying…we have to assess the whole patient’s situation, not just medically, but also from all other aspects to arrive at the correct decision. And again, at the end of the day, it’s really the patient’s decision to make the call. And we, again, we try to educate them on all the treatment options and all the data, so they really know why, what our recommendation is stemming out from.

Empowering CLL Patients for Treatment and Survivorship

Empowering CLL Patients for Treatment and Survivorship from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) experts help empower patients? Expert Dr. Danielle Brander explains ways that she helps her patients prepare for treatment and survivorship.

Dr. Danielle Brander is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies & Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Learn more about Dr. Danielle Brander.

Download Resource Guide   |  Descargar Guía en Español

See More from START HERE CLL

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Can Lifestyle or Supplements Impact CLL Treatment Response?


Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

“As a CLL expert, how do you help empower your patients so they can get the most out of their CLL treatment and survivorship? How do you work with them as a team to make sure, I guess they’re having the best outcome they can?”

Dr. Danielle Brander:

Absolutely. So it starts at the start. I guess so for conversations, meaning for those that don’t need treatment right away building the relationship, understanding how I can help patients and their caregivers help, for example, they like to learn how much they want to know, what resources can I connect them with. And then I think it’s important for them to have other team members that they can go to and talk to and hear it from, because sometimes the same information we can just share in different ways or approach differently. The nurse on our team or our pharmacist or I work with a wonderful group of nurse practitioners and physician assistants as well. And so from the beginning, I want patients to feel free to ask the questions that come to mind.

It’s amazing, of course, during the course of the visit when you’re going over your labs and that, that sometimes it’s easy to forget the questions you came in with. So, of course, anytime you can write them down before coming in, write them down and then maybe prioritize because all of us…I think it’s hard to remember everything. So prioritizing the questions we want to make sure we get to and go over as well as know that these same questions are going to mean different things to you the longer you’re living with your CLL. And so it’s okay to ask the same questions. Again, there’s never a question that any of us mind going over several times. And then just know how the team can help you. You know, are you coming? How much information do you want?

How much input do you want us to put? And what is your importance and priority? At the end of the day, I want all patients to know no one knows what it is, like living with it. No one knows what’s most important as much as you and your family or your caregiver team does. And I learn just as much from patients and the way they share their experiences. There’s a lot we can look at a group of patients with CLL and say how different each patient’s experiences, who needs treatment or not, who has side effects or not. But no one’s going to know as much as as you do living with it. And it’s our hope to help you wherever you are in your journey or whatever ways that we can help you.

Lisa Hatfield:

Well, and I appreciate your comment that we can ask the same questions over and over if we need to. I know my oncologist when I first met with him, I felt guilty taking in more than two questions, but right before he moved, I took in a long, I rolled up a piece of paper, a long scroll, and I said, I have some questions for you, but I knew they were all repeat questions. But it does give us a little bit of peace of mind just hearing it again from somebody, especially in those initial phases of treatment, just hearing it, even if you have to hear it again and again. So thank you for mentioning that. It makes us feel a little more confident in taking those concerns to our providers, even if they’re repeated concerns. 

Lisa Hatfield:

Dr. Brander, it’s these conversations that help patients truly empower themselves along their treatment journey. And on behalf of patients like myself and those watching, thank you very much for joining us.

Dr. Danielle Brander:

Thank you for having me.


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Can Lifestyle or Supplements Impact CLL Treatment Response?

Can Lifestyle or Supplements Impact CLL Treatment Response? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Can chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) patients use supplements or lifestyle changes to impact treatment response? Expert Dr. Danielle Brander shares her perspective and information from other cancer studies.

Dr. Danielle Brander is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies & Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Learn more about Dr. Danielle Brander.

Download Resource Guide   |  Descargar Guía en Español

See More from START HERE CLL

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BTK Inhibitor Treatment Side Effects: What CLL Patients Should Know

Can CLL Patients Take a Break From BTK Inhibitors?

Empowering CLL Patients for Treatment and Survivorship

Empowering CLL Patients for Treatment and Survivorship


Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So we have another patient who is concerned about chances of relapse and is asking if there are any lifestyle changes through diet and supplements or anything that you can speak to that may enhance their response or their duration response to the treatment?

Dr. Danielle Brander:

Yeah. So a very very great question to bring about. And this is the one area, understandably where many of us feel frustrated because we can’t tell patients specifically that this trial has been done and says this specific diet is helpful or this specific lifestyle change is helpful to make the treatment work for longer. I think some of that is because some of the general advice we give meaning maintaining daily activity or a well-balanced diet sound non-specific or simple, but I think do help in patients staying in an overall general health wellness so that they can benefit from the treatment and potentially have less side effects from the therapy. 

But getting back to the question we just talked about, I think certainly trials or studies really need to be continuing to look at this, because I think there likely are things that we can be more specific to patients about. There are studies looking at physical fitness and exercise regimens not necessarily specific to CLL, although there are studies being done in that space, but to other cancers showing that physical activity and exercise can help even for patients not on treatment maintain control of their cancer. So general daily activity and exercise are important in studies that look at how do you tailor that to an individual I think are important too.


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Can CLL Patients Take a Break From BTK Inhibitors?

Can CLL Patients Take a Break From BTK Inhibitors? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Is it possible for chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) patients on BTK inhibitors to take a treatment break? Expert Dr. Danielle Brander shares insight.

Dr. Danielle Brander is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies & Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Learn more about Dr. Danielle Brander.

Download Resource Guide   |  Descargar Guía en Español

See More from START HERE CLL

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BTK Inhibitor Treatment Side Effects: What CLL Patients Should Know

Can Lifestyle or Supplements Impact CLL Treatment Response?

Can Lifestyle or Supplements Impact CLL Treatment Response?

Empowering CLL Patients for Treatment and Survivorship

Empowering CLL Patients for Treatment and Survivorship


Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So this patient is telling us that he’s trying to plan life while living with cancer. It’s a challenge. It’s hard to know where to start. Can some patients go off of ibrutinib (Imbruvica) after five years and enter a watch-and-wait kind of program? And will they be monitored during that time too, if they ever do go off of the medication?

Dr. Danielle Brander: 

Yeah, more excellent, excellent questions. So of those main categories of treatment, the BTK inhibitors are given continuously, meaning, at least so far, the standard way we recommend of those treatments is that they’re taken every day, either once or twice a day, depending on which BTK inhibitor, and they’re taken every day. Unless patients run into progression, meaning the CLL learns to grow through its resistance or patients run into side effects that despite maybe team’s recommendation of changing the dose or holding the medications, that it’s just the medication is just not tolerated.

In those cases, there are cases where we do recommend stopping the treatment because of side effects. And the key there is that patients if depending how long they’ve been on treatment or how their CLL is responding, might not need to go on to the next treatment right away.

So to answer this patient’s question, if they were to run into a side effect that wasn’t manageable, there are patients where we say, stop treatment and let’s just watch things, see if you need treatment, if your CLL has no other reason to jump into the next therapy. And there have been encouraging things that we’re learning and that I think are hopeful to this patient’s question, which is maybe in the future there are patients where we proactively can tell them to stop after a certain time because of what we’ve learned for patients so far.

But at the current moment in time, we don’t tell patients to stop at a certain amount of time. But there are trials that are looking at that after a certain number of years. And there are also trials that have followed patients who have stopped therapy and some of those patients, as I mentioned, who are told to stop treatment due to other side effects or other reasons, may go a long time, a couple of years before they need to start therapy.


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BTK Inhibitor Treatment Side Effects | What CLL Patients Should Know

BTK Inhibitor Treatment Side Effects | What CLL Patients Should Know from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What do chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) patients need to know about BTK inhibitor treatment side effects? Expert Dr. Danielle Brander explains common side effects with BTK inhibitors.

Dr. Danielle Brander is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies & Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Learn more about Dr. Danielle Brander.

Download Resource Guide   |  Descargar Guía en Español

See More from START HERE CLL

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Can CLL Patients Take a Break From BTK Inhibitors?

Can Lifestyle or Supplements Impact CLL Treatment Response?

Can Lifestyle or Supplements Impact CLL Treatment Response?

Empowering CLL Patients for Treatment and Survivorship

Empowering CLL Patients for Treatment and Survivorship


Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

We have a couple of questions about BTK inhibitors, and you already talked a little bit about the role of those and why they’re significant in treating CLL. But another patient’s asking about the, of course, a lot of patients wonder, what are the side effects? They hear chemo and like, “Oh, my gosh, the side effects are going to be off.” Can you talk about the side effects and even maybe some unusual side effects that you’ve heard of from patients when using the BTK inhibitors?

Dr. Danielle Brander:

Sure, absolutely. And so again, really important, these are things that as we maybe anticipate patients are going to start treatment, this is a long discussion of deciding between treatment, for example, as first treatment. There’s no trial saying one path is necessarily better than the other. So we try to individualize choosing between BTK inhibitors or that venetoclax-based therapy I mentioned. Some of that though comes about and what expected side effects are expected side effects for the individual. I try for patients to hear it from myself, other members of the team, the nurse, our pharmacist, for example.

And so patients shouldn’t feel overwhelmed to keep asking about what to expect or new side effects. There are some side effects we talk about regardless of the treatment. So I’ll just point out, anytime you’re starting treatment, you’ll hear the team talk about risk for infection, monitoring for fevers, reaching out to us about those kinds of side effects, lower blood counts that can happen regardless, not specific to BTK though it can happen there as well.

There’s some specifically though with BTK inhibitors, we ask patients to watch out for. Some BTK inhibitors can cause some cardiovascular side effects, meaning watching out for funny beating of the heart or what we call palpitations, skipped beats. There can be arrhythmias, some patients can have with time elevation in their blood pressure, for example. And then risk for bleeding, meaning BTK inhibitors affect how the platelets stick together similar to what aspirin does.

So the platelet levels may be normal but patients might have easier bruising, just generally manageable. But if there’s any kind of bleeding, certainly the team should be aware. It’s also the reason though, if you’re on a BTK inhibitor and you have a planned surgery or procedure, let your team know, because we may recommend or a lot of times recommend holding the medication before and after certain surgeries or procedures.

Other side effects can be muscle or joint aches. Some patients have some gastrointestinal side effects like looser stools or sensitivities to certain food causing looser stools, for example. And then there are some that are specific to the individual BTK inhibitor. This is the one point I’ll mention that first-generation BTK inhibitor ibrutinib, part of the reason for the second-generation zanubrutinib (Brukinsa) and acalabrutinib (Calquence) is not necessarily of them working better but to have less of these side effects that I just mentioned. 


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Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Prognosis and Treatment Factors 

Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Prognosis and Treatment Factors from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What do chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) patients need to know about treatment factors and prognosis? Expert Dr. Danielle Brander explains key tests involved in determining CLL treatment and prognosis. 

Dr. Danielle Brander is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies & Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Learn more about Dr. Danielle Brander.

Download Resource Guide   |  Descargar Guía en Español

See More from START HERE CLL

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Does CLL Research Show Potential for a Cure?

Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Research and EVOLVE Trial Updates

Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Research and EVOLVE Trial Updates 

Common Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Symptoms and Follow-Up Tests

Common Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Symptoms and Follow-Up Tests


Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So, Dr. Brander, how do you explain CLL treatment options and prognosis to your newly diagnosed patients? And I think that the prognosis piece is really important, especially if they do start treatment. 

Dr. Danielle Brander:

What are the things we’re looking for in terms of needing treatment? Because some of those, especially the symptoms we’re noting a lymph node or spleen, for example, or symptoms of anemia, which is low red cells or bleeding from low platelets, it’s helpful for patients to understand what we’re looking for, but, of course, in the time between visits those are the things we want to help patients with if they notice.

And so we encourage them all the time to call our triage or send us, you know, most electronic medical records now, have ways to send your team a message. And we want to know about that from patients in between visits. In terms of prognosis, as I mentioned before, there are other CLL-specific labs usually on the blood, meaning a regular blood draw.

Most patients don’t need another lymph node biopsy or a bone marrow biopsy, though that happens in some cases. And two of those or some of those key markers I mentioned before, but they test in the leukemia, there’s one test called the FISH, F-I-S-H, it’s not specific to CLL, we use it in other cancers. But it’s to look for specific changes in the leukemia genomics, meaning the DNA, the genetic material of the leukemia, not genetics you’re born with, but the cancer itself.

And there are specific patterns and that can be helpful as I sit down with patients to say this isn’t 100 percent, but this is kind of what to expect and likelihood of needing treatment over the next couple of years. There’s another test called IGHV, another mutation test TP53 kind of beyond this to go over right now, but as you mentioned, I think it’s important to meet with your medical team and say, ‘How does this pertain to me specifically?”

In terms of prognosis, I think there’s two parts to that of understanding what to expect. There’s likelihood of needing treatment, there’s likelihood of time to treatment, and those kind of markers and staging system help in a good way. Right now, our historical expectations, meaning 5 or 10 years ago, we could often also sit with patients and say, “This is the prognosis in terms of survival.” Expected life expectancy on average, but in a good way, most of our systems nowadays with the newer treatments likely vastly underestimate patient survival, meaning those systems were designed when we only had chemotherapy treatments.

Now, we know patients even with the highest risk markers, the faster progressions are living, you know, years and years beyond what was expected with chemotherapy. So I just caution especially materials around from just a couple of years ago that likely they don’t pertain, but they can be helpful in knowing what to expect.


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Does CLL Research Show Potential for a Cure?

Does CLL Research Show Potential for a Cure? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Could chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) research potentially bring a cure for patients? Dr. Danielle Brander shares her perspective about the future of CLL care, functional cure, and cure-like condition.

Dr. Danielle Brander is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies & Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Learn more about Dr. Danielle Brander.

Download Resource Guide   |  Descargar Guía en Español

See More from START HERE CLL

Related Programs:

Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Prognosis and Treatment Factors

Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Prognosis and Treatment Factors

Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Research and EVOLVE Trial Updates

Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Research and EVOLVE Trial Updates

Common Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Symptoms and Follow-Up Tests

Common Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Symptoms and Follow-Up Tests


Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So as a cancer patient, one of the biggest questions I had when I was diagnosed, you hear the word “cancer” or in this case “CLL leukemia.” Two questions. One of them, is there a cure for CLL? And if not, are there any trials looking at a cure for CLL?

Dr. Danielle Brander:

Yes. Excellent. An understandable question. Traditionally, we say that CLL or others slower-growing, or sometimes you’ll hear the term indolent lymphomas, do tend to be slower-growing.  Some patients don’t need treatment. But the flip side of that is we generally think of them as not curable, that they’re a chronic condition and that treatment, the goal of treatment is to knock it down and relieve whatever symptoms or indications or reasons your starting treatment are.

But at some level, we historically think of CLL as either eventually coming back or sticking around, so to speak. However, I think most oncologists, most those in the field, feel that some of the treatments that are around or in combination, that we’re going to have some patients that have maybe what a term might be functional cure or individual, cure-like condition.

Meaning if our newer treatments for some patients can knock down the CLL so much that it either doesn’t come back or take so long to even show itself again, in a way that serves as what the purpose of cure, really is, which is to get it down to levels that it’s not causing problems or not coming back, for the lifetime of the patient.

Bone marrow transplant is the only therapy historically that has been cured, has offered a cure for some patients. The downside and the reason that most patients aren’t referred to for bone marrow transplant is the risk side of it. Meaning, unfortunately, a bone marrow or stem cell transplant has such a high risk of directly causing side effects.

That could be life-limiting or chronic side effects from the transplant itself versus the agents available now that we aren’t using or referring to bone marrow transplant nearly as much, but I think it’s really encouraging what we’re seeing in responses. So we talked already about those main categories of BTK inhibitors or venetoclax, I didn’t yet talk about, but there are many trials that have looked at those in combination, or CAR T, for example, or bispecific antibodies that are knocking down the CLL to such low levels. But the hope is that serves as a way of functional cure. But it’s going to take time to see if that’s the case. But we’re all very encouraged and really believe that that’s on the horizon.


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