Posts

How Does Us TOO International Support Prostate Cancer Patients and Their Loved Ones?

How Does Us TOO International Support Prostate Cancer Patients and Their Loved Ones? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are the ways that Us TOO International can help prostate cancer patients and their loved ones? Jim Schraidt, a prostate cancer survivor and chairman of Us TOO’s board of directors shares how his involvement with support groups evolved after his diagnosis and how Us TOO is working to improve support for both patients and care partners.

Jim Schraidt is a prostate cancer survivor and Chairman of the Board of Directors for Us TOO International. Learn more about Jim Schraidt here.

See more from The Pro-Active Prostate Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Resources

How Could You Benefit from Joining a Prostate Cancer Support Group?

Newly Diagnosed with Prostate Cancer? Consider These Key Steps

How Can You Insist on Better Prostate Cancer Care?


Transcript:

Jim Schraidt:              

My name is Jim Schraidt. I am now a 10-year, almost 11-year prostate cancer survivor. I was diagnosed in January of 2010 and had surgery in March of that year. Since then I’ve been involved in various support groups and some of those activities.

I found my way to a support group probably about three or four months after I was treated. And I was very active in that support group for a number of years. They helped me with a number of issues I was having at the time. And eventually I went on to become the facilitator of that group, and I’ve been in that role now for about five years.

Us TOO helped me find my initial support group. And we currently sponsor a network, a nationwide network of about 200 support groups. I became very interested in the work that Us TOO was doing, and I ran for Board, their Board of Directors. And I was elected, and I’m now finishing my sixth year on the Board and my second year as Chairman of that Board.

So, we’ve been very active in looking at the entire prostate cancer community and trying to develop new and better ways to serve patients. One of the things that we’ve accomplished in the last couple years is a partnership with a prostate cancer foundation, with is the leading private-research funder of prostate cancer research. So, we’ve worked with them to help make education about clinical trials available, for example. And they are contributing to our monthly newsletter with research news that’s actually put in laymen’s language so that people can understand it.

We’ve collaborated with other prostate cancer organizations, and we believe that this is critically important, that by working together we can amplify the patient voice and develop the best possible educational materials. So, in addition to the support groups, we have that going on. We also have a website that has a great deal of information about prostate cancer, support groups, and that sort of thing.

We are the prostate cancer sponsor for the Inspire site, which is an online community where prostate cancer patients can type in a question and have that question answered by other prostate cancer patients, or people who are knowledgeable in the field.

We actually have some practitioners that occasionally check in on that. So, then I think the final thing is that we have a couple of dial-in support groups that are for subspecialty types of patients and caregivers.

The first is called A Forum for Her, and it’s exclusively for women partners and caregivers. It gives them a separate and safe place to go and talk about the disease from a woman’s perspective. And then the second, newer dial-in support group we have is for gay men. And this is a group of men that for various reasons are less comfortable than they need to be in a broader kind of support group.

So, we’re working on that as well. One of our key initiatives as we look to celebrating our 30th year next year is support group leader education. And the goal here is to teach support group leaders best practices and make resources available to them so that they can either direct patients where to find information, or they can go back and find information and give that to patients directly.

So, the goal, once again, is to bring some standardization to the support group experience, and make sure that men are getting the best possible support and information.

How Can You Advocate for the Best Breast Cancer Care?

How Can You Advocate for the Best Breast Cancer Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Breast cancer expert Dr. Julie Gralow explains how you can advocate for the best metastatic breast cancer care, through speaking up, utilizing care team members and taking key steps to achieving better care.

Dr. Julie Gralow is the Jill Bennett Endowed Professor of Breast Medical Oncology at the University of Washington, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, and the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. More about this expert here.

See More From INSIST! Metastatic Breast Cancer


Related Resources:

How Genetic Mutations Affect Metastatic Breast Cancer Disease Progression and Prognosis

Factors That Guide a Metastatic Breast Cancer Treatment Decision

What Could Metastatic Breast Cancer Genetic Testing Advances Mean for You?


Transcript:

Katherine:                  

For patients who may be hesitant to speak out for themselves and advocate for their own care and treatment, what advice do you have?

Dr. Gralow:                

You have a whole team who’s behind you, and I’m the MD on the team, but I’ve got a nurse practitioner, and a nurse, and a scheduler, and a social worker, and a nutritionist, and a physical therapy team, and financial counselors. I’ve got a whole team who works with me. And so, a patient might be hesitant to speak up during the actual appointment with their physician. It’s a short amount of time. I would recommend come into it with written-down questions because things go fast. You don’t get a lot of time with your doctor.

Things go fast, but don’t come in with 25 questions, either. Pick your top few that you want to get taken care of this visit because if you come in with 25 or 30, you’re going to lose the answers to most of them. Maybe bring somebody with you who’s an advocate and a listener for you who could be taking notes, so you can process and you don’t have to write it down, or ask if you can record it. It’s really important if you’re newly diagnosed or maybe there’s a progression and you’re going on a new treatment. That’s okay too.

But, I would also say you have a whole team behind you, so sometimes, if you don’t have time or if you’re hesitant to speak up in your doctor’s visit, you can ask the nurse, or maybe you can ask the social worker for help, even. See if there’s support groups around.

Interestingly, we’ve got a peer-to-peer network where patients can request to talk to somebody else who’s matched to them by some tumor features, and their stage, and things like that. Maybe finding somebody else who’s gone through something similar, and somebody independent to talk to instead of relying on your family.

It can also be really helpful to talk to a therapist or a psychologist about your fears, and sometimes, you want to be strong for your family, strong for your children and all, but you need a safe space with somebody that you can just express your fears and your anger if that’s what’s going on, or your depression or anxiety to while you’re trying to hold a strong face for others in your family. So, I would encourage patients to look at who is the whole team and talk to the other members of the team as well, and sometimes, they can help advocate.

Also, find somebody who might be able to come to your appointments with you, somebody who will help you advocate or remind you – “Didn’t you want to ask this question?” – or be another set of ears that you can process it with afterwards.

Katherine:                  

Dr. Gralow, we’ve covered a lot of useful information today for patients. Thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Gralow:                 

Thank you, Katherine.

Katherine:                  

And, thank you to all of our partners. To learn more about breast cancer and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell.

Caregiver Support: Taking Care of YOU

Caregiver Support: Taking Care of YOU from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Prostate cancer caregivers support patients in many ways, but also need support for themselves. Social worker Linda Mathew details the role of caregivers and shares resources to help them maintain their own self-care.

Linda Mathew is a Senior Clinical Social Worker at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Learn more here.

See more from The Pro-Active Prostate Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Resources

How Can a Prostate Cancer Social Worker Help You?

Why You Should Speak Up About Your Prostate Cancer Care

Tools for Managing Prostate Cancer Fear and Anxiety


Transcript:

Linda Mathew:

So, caregivers have a really important role in caring for their loved ones, so whether it’s their spouse, or a sibling, or a child, they – their role 1). Is to advocate as well for the patient in terms of saying, “Hey, you know what? Let me call the doctor’s office. This side effect was on the list, but I’ve noticed that it’s ongoing, so let me reach out to the office for you if you’re not feeling well.”

They are the eyes and ears for their patient or for their loved one in terms of just saying, “Something is not right. Let me call.” And, most of our nurse practitioners or nurse office practice nurses will say to the caregiver, “You are our eyes and ears when you’re at home. When the patient is here, we’re the eyes and ears for that person to assess what’s going on.”

But also, the caregiver really – sometimes, what happens is there’s a role reversal, so they become that emotional support for the loved one, the financial support, practical support, and also the spiritual support for their loved one, and we remind them that is your – that is a huge role to play, and there’s no handbook for it, but we have resources for you, so you’re not alone in that process.

And, the one thing we really stress is here at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, we recognize the important role of our caregivers and how important they are to the loved one that they’re caring for. So, with that resource-wise, the social work department has a program called Reach for Caregivers, and it’s a hospital-wide program that we offer support groups as well as educational workshops.

And then, in November, being Caregiver Month, we put on a lot of different programs just for our caregivers to know we recognize you, we know you need the support, so here it is. So, in terms of support groups we offer, it’s all online because we know that sometimes, the caregiver is also working outside of the home, so to help meet them where they are, we’ve offered an online support group that they can tap into during their lunch hour, or even after work.

Why You Should Speak Up About Your Prostate Cancer Care

Why You Should Speak Up About Your Prostate Cancer Care from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are the benefits of prostate cancer patients speaking up about their care? Linda Mathew discusses the impact of patients taking an active role in their care.

Linda Mathew is a Senior Clinical Social Worker at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Learn more here.

See more from The Pro-Active Prostate Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Resources

How Can a Prostate Cancer Social Worker Help You?

Tools for Managing Prostate Cancer Fear and Anxiety

Caregiver Support: Taking Care of YOU


Transcript:

Linda Mathew:

Our medical team is really open about having discussions. So, 1). Our team is not blind to knowing that our patients may want a second opinion just to validate “Hey, is this – do I have all of the information laid out in front of me?”, and we always say it’s like – it’s always good to have that second opinion just to say, “Ah, what’s been told to me is correct, and it goes in line with what I’m reading on the different websites for these places that I’m going to for possible treatment.”

I always tell our patients also that you are your best advocate, so you know what your needs are, and if it means that you need more information before you make a final decision, then do it.

So, if it means talking to other people or going for a second opinion, then go ahead and do that, but I also tell our patients if you’re scared about asking a question, if you’re not – that’s a huge issue. If you’re scared to ask a question to your medical team, that means that, in itself, says, “Hey, is this the right fit?” So, I always encourage our patients, “Our team knows that you want to ask a question. Just go ahead and ask it. You’re not going to embarrass them; you’re not going to embarrass yourself. That’s what your physician and the nurse are there for.”

I think the one thing I would want to stress is that you, the patient, knows themselves. They know what their needs are more so than anybody else, so if that means that you feel like something is missing, then speak up, let us know, and if you don’t feel saying it to the nurse at the moment when you’re in a visit, you can always reach out to the social worker, who can help direct that question back to the team or help you find a way to ask that question either via the portal or an email to the medical team.

Tools for Managing Prostate Cancer Fear and Anxiety

Tools for Managing Prostate Cancer Fear and Anxiety from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Fear and anxiety are common feelings that arise while living with prostate cancer. Social worker Linda Mathew explains how she helps patients improve quality of life while living with prostate cancer.

Linda Mathew is a Senior Clinical Social Worker at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Learn more here.

See more from The Pro-Active Prostate Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Resources

How Can a Prostate Cancer Social Worker Help You?

Why You Should Speak Up About Your Prostate Cancer Care

Caregiver Support: Taking Care of YOU


Transcript:

Linda Mathew:

The common fears and worries that they have are – form the support group itself, the main ones that we always hear are the incontinence and erectile dysfunction. So, we really focus on what that means for them as men because it is their manhood, and their biggest concern is “No one told me I was going to have incontinence for this long. I thought it was going to end after a couple months of recuperation from surgery.”

And, we remind them your body has just gone through a shock in terms of having a prostatectomy, and so, it’s your body having to realign and remember what to do again in terms of taking care of itself. Just the same way as in erectile dysfunction, that is possible after having a prostate surgery – prostatectomy, so we remind them there are resources we have here to help address sexual health. So, I am obviously going to refer our patients to our men’s sexual health clinic, which is run by Dr. Mulhall and his team. So, those are the two areas that they really bring up, and it’s also in terms of “Can I have a relationship?” if they’re single, or “How do I let my significant other know that I’m having these issues?”

And, I always – I’m always encouraging our patients “Let’s talk about how to have that conversation if you’re scared of having it. What does that look like for you? What do you think is the worst thing that would be said to you? Let’s approach it from that end in terms of saying here’s some tools for you to have that discussion with your significant other.”

I start off with validating their feelings. I think that’s really important for our male population, is just that it’s okay to feel anxious, and anxiety is real, and with this population, PSA anxiety is very real. So, it’s going in for those three-month checkups to say, “How is my PSA doing? Am I in the right track?”, and just giving them that validation like, “It’s normal. What you’re feeling is normal.”

It relieves a lot of their anxiety because then, they’re thinking, “Okay, I’m not the crazy one here. Yes, what I’m going through – this uncertain journey that I’m on – everyone’s feeling this, no matter what the diagnosis is.” And then, I just – we talk about what it means for them, like what does this cancer diagnosis mean for them. Most of our men are always like – they want something that can be like there’s a solution-oriented process to it, and there’s no solution-oriented process to this, so it’s about how do you sit in that ambiguity, that uncertainty of this journey, and what can you do for yourself that you feel like you’re in control of?

So, for our prostate cancer patients, knowing that there are other people out there that they can talk to is a relief for them, that they’re able to know that there might be a group of men who can say, “Hey, I was there right where you were when I was initially diagnosed in terms of anxiety, in terms of not knowing how to make a decision about treatment plans or treatment options, but maybe my two cents can help you.”

A lot of patients that come to my support group, which is through the Resources for Life After Cancer program, really find that connection helpful because you’ve been given so much information, and you’re feeling overwhelmed by “How do I make this choice – a good choice – for myself?”, connecting with other men who’ve been given the same options, and made a decision, and see where they are now in treatment helps release – decrease the anxiety, but also gives them some relief in terms of not feeling like there’s pressure to how to choose the right answer, or the right recommendation, or the right treatment plan.

How Can a Prostate Cancer Social Worker Help You?

How Can a Prostate Cancer Social Worker Help You? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can a prostate cancer social worker help patients and their families? Linda Mathew, a senior social worker, shares how she provides support for patients and their loved ones after diagnosis, during treatment, and beyond.

Linda Mathew is a Senior Clinical Social Worker at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Learn more here.

See more from The Pro-Active Prostate Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Resources

Tools for Managing Prostate Cancer Fear and Anxiety

Why You Should Speak Up About Your Prostate Cancer Care

Caregiver Support: Taking Care of YOU

 


Transcript:

Linda Mathew:

Hi, I’m Linda Mathew, and I am a senior social worker here at MSK. I am a supervisor in the Department of Social Work, but I also have a service, and I work with the urology service, so, both medicine and surgical patients.

 And, really, it’s just – I’m here as clinical support to our patients in terms of individual counseling, couples counseling, family counseling.

So, what we really do is we provide supportive counseling to our patients. So, in terms of when we say “supportive counseling,” if patients are anxious, or have some depression around the diagnosis, or have just fears around what that – what it means to have a cancer diagnosis and the uncertainty about what that journey will look like, they are referred to me to just process that out loud in terms of questions about themselves and how – how are they going to manage a diagnosis if they’re going to be on chemotherapy or questions about how to support their family around this diagnosis if they don’t even know how to have this conversation with their family.

Most times, if it’s a couple that come in, it’s around how do I support the patient as well as the caregiver through the trajectory of this patient’s treatment. So, the patient is dealing with their own diagnosis and treatment and what all that means, and the caregiver is also having a parallel process with this where they are caring for the loved one, but also have their own fears about “How do I navigate being a support to them? I don’t know what it means to be a caregiver for somebody who’s going through medical treatment.”

So, we help slow that down for them and say, “These are the things that you need to look out for. Just – you are their extra advocate. You are that person – their eyes, their ears – when they are not able to call the doctor’s office to be able to say, ‘I can call the doctor’s office with this information. Just tell me what you want me to say.’”

But, you’re also just there as a support, so it’s a really weird kind of…reminding our patients the tools that they already have, but because they feel like they’re in a crisis, they forget what those tools are.                

Please don’t feel like you have to figure this out on your own. Your medical team is here for you, social work is here for you, we have an ancillary service – like, services available in terms of the men’s sexual health clinic integrated medicine counseling venture, all in terms of supporting our patients. So, when in doubt – and, if you don’t know who to turn to, just turn to your social worker and ask them. Say, “I need help,” and we’ll guide you through it.

How Can Breast Cancer Genetic Testing Empower Women?

How Can Breast Cancer Genetic Testing Empower Women? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Stephanie Valente explains how breast cancer genetic testing results can help women learn about their breast cancer risk and guide prognosis and treatment choices.

Dr. Stephanie Valente is the Director of the Breast Surgery Fellowship Program at Cleveland Clinic. More about this expert here.

See More From INSIST! Metastatic Breast Cancer

Related Resources:

 

Transcript:

Dr. Valente:                

So, genetic testing in this day and age is really empowering to a lot of women. So, it allows women to take control of their health from the beginning. So, if somebody has a strong family history of breast cancer, and that woman doesn’t have breast cancer but wants to know if she’s at an increased genetic risk for developing breast cancer in her lifetime – Knowing that risk and if a gene is identified, that woman could undergo high-risk screening.

So, saying if she develops breast cancer, it would be caught early, and she can go into a high-risk program. Or she can elect to prophylactically – meaning before cancer – remove her breasts. That would be both of the breasts with a mastectomy – Again, with or without reconstruction. And so, that decreases the risk.

Nothing in life is 100%. But it essentially decreases the risk of getting breast cancer. Some of the genes, like the BRCA gene – that’s a very common gene – is a 60% to 80% lifetime risk of developing breast cancer. And so, that would take that lifetime risk down to about 5% risk of developing breast cancer. And so, that’s empowering for a lot of women. And so, some women do elect to have that procedure.

The other thing for genetic testing is that for women who are diagnosed with breast cancer, sometimes the triple-negative breast cancer – finding out whether or not they carry a BRCA gene. We know that certain genes in triple-negative breast cancer allow patients to have better treatment outcomes with certain chemotherapy. So, the medical oncologist may opt to add a specific chemotherapy based on whether or not that patient actually carries a genetic mutation.

What Should You Know About the Role of Surgery in Breast Cancer Treatment?

What Should You Know About the Role of Surgery in Breast Cancer Treatment? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Stephanie Valente explains how surgery approaches, including mastectomy and lumpectomy, are used in treating breast cancer, and addresses common misconceptions about mastectomy.

Dr. Stephanie Valente is the Director of the Breast Surgery Fellowship Program at Cleveland Clinic. More about this expert here.

See More From The Pro-Active Breast Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Resources:

 
 

Transcript:

Dr. Valente:            

So, breast cancer patients have the option to remove their whole breast, which is called a mastectomy. And if they pick that option, they could choose to have reconstruction or to essentially go flat. Yes, we have even done reconstruction in metastatic breast cancer patients. Metastatic breast cancer patients live for a really long time, so giving them reconstruction to make them feel whole and kind of put them back together after a mastectomy is definitely a good option.        

The other option is to just remove the cancer. So, if the patient has a small breast cancer, and it’s metastatic, we can just say – Hey, you don’t have to have the whole breast removed. So, we can do a lumpectomy, as well.

So, a lumpectomy is essentially a surgery that removes the cancer with a normal rim of tissue around it. We also call it a partial mastectomy, meaning you’re removing just part of the breast. Or it’s also called breast-conserving surgery. So, it’s any method that removes that cancer with a normal rim of healthy tissue around it but allows the woman to keep her breasts.

So, when it comes to surgical choices and a cancer coming back, some women think that if they pick the most advanced surgery, such as a mastectomy, it helps prevent cancer from going somewhere else in the body. And that’s actually not true. Removing both breasts, doesn’t make you live one day longer. At that point, a mastectomy or a lumpectomy is a choice.

And prognosis – meaning whether or not the cancer’s gonna show up somewhere in the body – is based really on two things – the stage at which the breast cancer presents itself and what type of breast cancer it is – meaning is the cancer outside of the lymph nodes? How large is it? And if it’s a triple negative or some other type of breast cancer? Those determine the higher likelihood that somebody could develop metastatic breast cancer later in their life, even though small, early-stage breast cancers, unfortunately, can also develop metastasis later on in life.

But women sometimes think that if they pick the most aggressive surgery, it’s helping prevent metastatic spread later on in life. And that’s actually not the choice.  Breast cancer surgery is the option that women choose to surgically remove their breast cancer. But again, choosing a mastectomy or a lumpectomy for an early-stage breast cancer is a choice of how they wanna remove the breast cancer. But it doesn’t improve the chances that they won’t have metastatic spread later on.

So, the role of surgery for metastatic breast cancer is mainly for what we call to remove the cancer or sometimes for local control. So, the number one treatment if somebody is diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer is systemic therapy. That might be chemotherapy or endocrine therapy. But it’s really to get the metastatic disease under control.

So, where does breast cancer usually go? Bones, liver, lungs, brain. So, surgery to remove the breast or the breast cancer in the breast doesn’t really take care of those problems. But a lot of times for metastatic cancer, the one reason would be for local control. So, if the cancer is causing issues in the breast – swelling, coming out of the skin – where it’s a wound issue, then we’ll remove that to get better control of the area in the breast.

The other reason is if somebody has metastatic cancer, and their cancer in the other area of their body is controlled with the therapy, then we say – Hey, chemo’s working, or the systemic therapy’s working. The only thing that seems to be left is the area in your breast. Then for a conversation with medical oncology, we say you don’t have to come off your medications. This is a good time to remove the breast cancer to control that problem.

Metastatic Breast Cancer Treatment and Research News

Metastatic Breast Cancer Treatment and Research News from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

As metastatic breast cancer testing approaches continue to expand, new and promising treatments have emerged. Dr. Lisa Flaum shares information on recently approved treatment options and the role of genetic markers in accessing targeted therapy. 

Dr. Lisa Flaum is a Medical Oncologist at the Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center of Northwestern University. Learn more here.

See More From The Pro-Active Breast Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Resources:

 

Transcript:

Dr. Flaum:                  

There are a lot of new and promising treatments for metastatic breast cancer. So, the treatments in general and the novel treatments and studies really vary based on the subset of metastatic breast cancer. So, when we’re making our treatment decisions, a lot of it is defined by those markers. So, if someone has a tumor that is hormone receptor, estrogen and progesterone receptor positive, and HER2-negative, the mainstay of treatment is typically drugs that target estrogen and often partnering drugs that target estrogen with other more novel or newer treatments.

So, just in the last five plus years, there have been a number of new drugs and even new drug categories that we didn’t have previously. So, for that population of the estrogen receptor positive tumors, the biggest breakthrough over the last number of years has been a class of drugs called CDK4/6 inhibitors. So, that includes drugs like Ibrance, Kisqali, Verzenio. And they’ve emerged as a very important and effective and often a recommendation for our first-line treatment for these patients combined with anti-estrogen therapies that have vastly improved outcomes for patients. So, a much higher percentage of patients respond to these drugs, the duration of the responses has extended quite a bit. And importantly, patients tend to tolerate this drug class really, really well.

 So, for many patients starting out with that diagnosis, this type of drug class is going to be part of the discussion. Even in the last year, another drug category has emerged with approval of a new drug called alpelisib, which is something called at PI3 kinase inhibitor. So, again, back to defining the options based on the molecular profile of the tumor. So, this newer oral drug also partnered with anti-estrogen therapy, has been an important breakthrough for the treatment of patients who harbor this specific molecular abnormality. So, important to define whether that’s an option by some of these molecular testing.

There’s also newer drugs and studies of newer drugs that affect the estrogen receptor in different ways than some of our traditional medications.

And this is an ongoing area of significant research. So, that’s the estrogen receptor positive tumors.

For patients who have HER2-positive tumors, these are tumors that tend to be more aggressive, that tend to require more aggressive upfront treatment, which usually involves drugs that specifically target HER2. So, again, defining what’s driving the tumor and hopefully having drugs available that can target that specific abnormality. So, HER2 targeted drugs have evolved quite a bit over the last couple of decades.

Initially, we just had a drug called Herceptin and then a drug called Perjeta or pertuzumab was developed. Then more recently a drug called Kadcyla. And then even in just the last six to 10 months, two new drugs that target that HER2 protein. One of them is called tucatinib, the other one is called Enhertu. They’re not necessarily appropriate for the first line of treatment, but really sort of expands our toolbox in terms of how we treat these types of tumors. And these are developments that have occurred, for one of the drugs, just in the last six months, and the other within the last year. So, a lot of progress.

And then for the third subset of tumors, which are the triple-negative tumors, those are the ones that do not over-express estrogen, do not have estrogen or progesterone receptors, and don’t overexpressed HER2. This has been historically an area of unmet need. So, tumors where we can’t use anti-estrogen therapies, we can’t use HER2 targeted drugs. And so, the main stay has always been chemotherapy. And even for this subset, we’ve had progress.

So, one of the drug classes that’s been approved in the last couple years for triple-negative breast cancers is immunotherapy. So, immunotherapy has gotten a lot of press. It’s been really breakthrough treatment for a lot of different cancers, has lagged behind to some degree in breast cancer, but has become now one of the early treatment options for people with metastatic disease, specifically those that harbor a molecular marker, an immune marker, something called PD-L1. So, another example of the tumor’s biology dictating potentially one of the treatment options.

There have been other drugs that have been approved for triple-negative breast cancers in women who have BRCA mutation, so who have germline genetic predisposition to breast cancer. And that opens another array of treatment tools that have been approved in the last few years. And then more recently, just over the last six months, another drug that’s been approved for triple-negative breast cancer, which is a drug called sacituzumab, again, not first treatment, but something that defines potentially future lines of treatment. So, big picture, there has been a lot of progress that increasingly alters our treatment tools for patients and allows us to have sequential treatments that can be effective if their given treatment is no longer effective.

Metastatic Breast Cancer Treatment Decisions: Which Path is Best for You?

Metastatic Breast Cancer Treatment Decisions: Which Path is Best for You? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

 For each metastatic breast cancer patient, there are several variables to consider to access the best treatment path. Dr. Lisa Flaum explains key factors to consider, and discusses how the risks and benefits are weighed when making treatment decisions for an individual patient.

Dr. Lisa Flaum is a Medical Oncologist at the Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center of Northwestern University. Learn more here.

See More From The Pro-Active Breast Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Resources:

 

Transcript:

Dr. Flaum:                  

So, when we’re determining a treatment approach, there are a number of variables. So, to some degree, based on a patient’s individual characteristics, their age, their other health issues, may guide what treatments are available or indicated or even desirable from a patient’s standpoint. To some degree, the locations and extent of disease are important. So, if someone has cancer and that’s causing a particular symptom, with bony sites being a particular example, there may be a role for something targeted; Something like radiation, and in rare cases, surgery to target a specific symptomatic or worrisome spot of metastatic cancer.

In general, the mainstay of treatment for metastatic breast cancer is what we call systemic treatment or medical treatment, treatment that’s going to go everywhere and treat the cancer wherever it is. In some situations, we may be deciding between more or less aggressive treatment, and the locations and sites of disease may be important in determining that. If someone has extensive disease, for instance in a vital organ like the lung, the liver, the brain, we may start with something more versus less aggressive to try to get it better under control quickly. Whereas people with more limited metastatic disease may be able to start with something less aggressive.

And then beyond that, a lot of the decision-making is based on those molecular markers that I alluded to, which are defined by the hormone receptor status. So, whether the tumor expresses those estrogen and progesterone receptors, and whether the tumor over-expresses HER2. And then to a lesser degree, based on other markers that may be defined by additional tests.

So, every treatment discussion we have is a two-way street. So, our job is to present the data, present options, present recommendations. And often, we have an opinion on where we would fall and if there are a number of different options. But to me, it’s a collaborative discussion. And if there are options, it’s weighing what potential benefit do we get from a single option or from adding something to that particular option versus what are the downsides? And some of it is discussion about logistics. Do we do something IV versus oral? Is there a particular side effect that we’re hoping to avoid, such as hair loss? Which of course, we’re trying to avoid. Some treatments may have a higher likelihood of working, but a higher likelihood of causing hair loss. That may factor into our decision.

So, whether it’s the first decision point when we’re deciding on preliminary therapy or future decision points as we go through this journey, there is always a discussion about this is where we are, these are what our options are. Here’s how we’re going to weigh the pros and cons. And then it comes back to a collaborative decision about how we weigh the risks and rewards and where we’re going with an individual patient.

So, clinical trials are always part of at least the conversation, so they’re always a consideration at each step of our discussion. So, from a preliminary treatment standpoint, we’re always going to go through here are our standard options. Here’s, again, what we think is most appropriate. And if there’s a clinical trial that’s appropriate in that scenario, we’ll lay that out there as an option. So, a clinical trial is always worth discussing. It’s always worth asking that your doctor, “Is a clinical trial appropriate for me at this point?” But it’s not always the right recommendation.

So, there are a lot of scenarios, especially at the beginning of treatment for metastatic disease where we have so many options, and so many new and novel treatment options and drugs that have been approved fairly recently that have defined the standard of care, that the standard is going to be often what we recommend. And a clinical trial may be something that we would use if that treatment fails to work or at some future point down the line. And at other points in time, we have very good, appropriate clinical trials that could be indicated at any step along the way. So, it’s worth the discussion. Whether it’s the recommendation or not depends on the circumstances, it depends on the time. What we have today was very different than what we might’ve had available six months ago and six months from now. But clinical trials are out there, and if the location that a patient is going doesn’t have access to clinical trials, it’s always reasonable to ask too, “Should I be going somewhere else to see if a clinical trial is appropriate?”

Essential Testing Following A Metastatic Breast Cancer Diagnosis

Essential Testing Following a Metastatic Breast Cancer Diagnosis from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Following a metastatic breast cancer diagnosis, what tests are essential? Dr. Lisa Flaum reviews the role of key tests, and the impact of molecular (genetic) test results on treatment decisions.

Dr. Lisa Flaum is a Medical Oncologist at the Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center of Northwestern University. Learn more here.

See More From INSIST! Metastatic Breast Cancer

Related Resources:

 

Should You See a Breast Cancer Specialist?

Are You Prepared for Your Breast Cancer Appointment?

What Do Breast Cancer Patients Need to Know About COVID?

 

Transcript:

Dr. Flaum:                  

When someone has either a diagnosis or a suspected diagnosis of metastatic cancer, meaning a diagnosis of cancer that has spread somewhere outside of the breast. And the most important initial step is establishing a tissue diagnosis. So, we could have our suspicions based on imaging, based on symptoms, but the most important thing is to confirm it. And usually that confirmation involves some type of tissue biopsy. So, collecting cells, examining them under the microscope, making sure that the diagnosis in fact, is cancer. Making sure that the cancer has spread from the breast, which is something that is definable under the microscope for the most part. And then evaluating various molecular markers within the tumor itself that are critical to guiding treatment.

So, in addition to the tissue diagnosis, the other important first step is what we call cancer staging. So, establishing the extent of the tumor within the body, which typically involves some type of scans, which may be variable depending on the situation or depending on the physician often could be a CT scan and a bone scan, maybe a PET scan. There may be an MRI.

So, a number of different tests that help us establish where the tumor is at baseline, so we can better understand the anatomy, but also to follow down the road to establish whether any given treatment is working. There are also maybe discussions of other types of molecular testing beyond what we determined in terms of the traditional biologic markers. You might hear the terms next generation sequencing tests like Foundation, Guardant, Tempus, which better define the cancer’s biology, which increasingly is becoming useful in terms of targeting treatment to someone’s specific cancer.

So, the molecular tests are looking at a few different things. So, first and foremost from a breast cancer standpoint, the most important basic molecular markers are what we consider to be the four main receptors, which is the estrogen and progesterone receptor, which dictates whether a given tumor is driven by estrogen and importantly dictates whether anti-estrogen therapy is going to be an appropriate component of the treatment. The other basic marker is called HER2, which is a protein that’s over-expressed.

In about 20% of breast cancer patient cells, and it’s also very critical in terms of guiding treatment. For specific types of breast cancer, once we know those preliminary molecular markers, then there’s an array of other types of anomalies within the tumor itself that could help to guide specific treatment. So, a couple of examples, and I can talk about that when you talk about treatment. If someone has a genetic predisposition to breast cancer with a BRCA mutation, there’s a specific treatment that might be appropriate. More recently, there’s another abnormality that can be detected by these tests called a PI3-Kinase mutation that identifies a population of patients who could be appropriate for another type of targeted therapy. So, for an individual, knowing what their particular profile is, whether or not those treatments are going to be indicated right at the beginning of treatment or maybe something that we use down the road. Inevitably, they’re going to help us understand what our tools are when we’re helping to make those decisions.

What Could Advances in Breast Cancer Research Mean for You?

What Could Advances in Metastatic Breast Cancer Research Mean for You? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What should metastatic breast cancer patients know about emerging approaches to treatment and care? Dr. Julie Gralow reviews developments in metastatic breast cancer research, including advances in genetics, subsetting disease and personalized medicine.

Dr. Julie Gralow is the Jill Bennett Endowed Professor of Breast Medical Oncology at the University of Washington, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, and the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. More about this expert here.

See More From INSIST! Metastatic Breast Cancer

Related Resources:

 

What Could Metastatic Breast Cancer Genetic Testing Advances Mean for You?

What Are Essential Genetic Tests for Metastatic Breast Cancer Patients?

Metastatic Breast Cancer: Debunking Common Misconceptions

 

Transcript:

Katherine:                  

There have been so many advances in breast cancer research. What are you excited about in research right now?

Dr. Gralow:                

Well, every single drug that’s been approved, every single new regimen that’s been approved in breast cancer is the direct result of clinical trials, and this is a major part of my career, is to help patients get access to clinical trials and run important clinical trials that could lead to new discoveries – is this regimen better? What’s the toxicity?

Because until we have a cure for breast cancer, we need to do better, and we need to research better treatment options. So, doing trials, having access to clinical trials where you can participate, help move the science forward is key.

I think where we’re moving with breast cancer is the more we’re understanding the patient and the tumor, the more we’re realizing every single breast cancer is different, actually, and whereas when I started my training 20-plus years ago, breast cancer was breast cancer – we weren’t even using HER2 yet, we were just learning how to use estrogen receptor, and we kind of treated everything the same – now, we’re subsetting, and subsetting, and subsetting. Even in triple negative breast cancer now, which is about 18-20% of breast cancer, we’re subsetting.

Does that triple negative breast cancer have PD-L1, which is associated with being able to get immunotherapy drugs? Does it express androgen receptor? Because sometimes, even a breast cancer that doesn’t have estrogen or progesterone receptor can express the androgen receptor, like prostate cancer, and we can use some prostate cancer drugs. So, even triple negative breast cancer we’re subsetting and subsetting, and could that triple negative breast cancer be associated with a BRCA1 or 2 mutation, and then we can use the PARP inhibitors?

So, I’m actually really excited about that we’re learning more and more, and subsetting, and not treating breast cancer as one size fits all, and if we can better tailor the treatments to the patient and the tumor, that we are going to get to the point where I can tell my patients yes, we can get cures in metastatic breast cancer.

What is the Role of Genetic Testing in Breast Cancer?

What is the Role of Genetic Testing in Breast Cancer? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Breast cancer expert Dr. Julie Gralow discusses the role of genetic testing in metastatic breast cancer care, reviewing the impact of inherited–and acquired–genetic mutations on treatment options.

Dr. Julie Gralow is the Jill Bennett Endowed Professor of Breast Medical Oncology at the University of Washington, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, and the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. More about this expert here.

See More From INSIST! Metastatic Breast Cancer

Related Resources:

 

What Could Metastatic Breast Cancer Genetic Testing Advances Mean for You?

What Are Essential Genetic Tests for Metastatic Breast Cancer Patients?

Metastatic Breast Cancer: Debunking Common Misconceptions

 

Transcript:

Katherine:                  

All right. Dr. Gralow, when you meet with patients, what are some of the more common misconceptions that you hear related to diagnosis?

Dr. Gralow:                

Well, I think people do confuse – especially at an early diagnosis – that the metastases, the travel to the local lymph nodes, is not the same as a metastatic breast cancer, so we spend some time talking about how it’s still curable and not considered a distant metastasis if the lymph nodes are in the armpit or up above the collarbone, and so, that’s something that we spend some time talking about.

This whole term of “metastatic recurrence” – unfortunately, when you start looking online and get your information from Dr. Google, you read right away that it’s no longer curable, and in 2020, yes, that’s true. That’s probably the most specific statement that we can make. We are not going with curative intent, which means we treat for a defined amount of time, and then all the disease goes away, and we stop treatment, and then you go on with your life, and it never comes back. That would be cure.

But, I think it’s really important to point out that much of metastatic breast cancer can be highly treatable, and what we hope to do – and certainly, at least a subset of metastatic breast cancer – we want to convert it more to what we would call a chronic disease, and so, think of it more like hypertension, high blood pressure, or diabetes. These are diseases that we generally don’t cure with treatment, but that we can control with drug therapy, which sometimes has to be adjusted, and if we don’t control it, we can get some bad complications.

So, that’s not all metastatic breast cancer, unfortunately – we can’t convert all of it to something where we can use a therapy for a long time that keeps it in check and where you have a pretty good quality of life – but we’re hoping that more and more, we’re getting targeted therapies and more specific treatments to patients so that we can convert more patients to a more chronic kind of situation.

Katherine:                  

Many people are confused about genetic testing. They often think that it relates to ancestry or physical traits like hair and eye color. What’s the role of genetic testing in breast cancer?

Dr. Gralow:                

Well, you can do genetic testing of the patient’s inheritance, which is how most people think of genetic testing, and that’s actually really important and increasingly important in metastatic breast cancer to do your own inheritance. Have you inherited a gene that was associated with how your cancer developed? Because now, we actually have a class of drugs called PARP inhibitors that are approved for tumors that have a BRCA1 or BRCA2 mutation with them. Most of those mutations were inherited, but not all. Sometimes they can develop as well.

So, now, when my patient – if she didn’t previously have genetic testing for an inherited risk for breast cancer either coming from mom or dad’s side of the family, a lot of people do have that up front, especially if they’re younger at diagnosis or they have a lot of family members with breast cancer. If she didn’t have that genetic testing done previously, at the time of the metastatic occurrence, I’m going to recommend that that be done because knowing if the cancer is associated with one of these DNA repair genes – BRCA1, BRCA2, some other genes – we have a new treatment option, which is an oral pill that actually is highly effective if the tumor has a mutation in one of these.

But, we can also – so, that’s genetic testing of the patient’s own DNA, but we can also do what we call genetic testing – or genomic testing, if you will – of the genes of the cancer. What were the changes in the DNA at the gene level that caused a normal breast cell over time to develop into a cancer cell that’s now growing without responding to our body’s checks and balances? So, what were those mutations, deletions, or amplifications in the tumor itself?

So, we’ve got the patient’s genetics, we’ve got the tumor’s genetics, and both of those come into play when we’re making our best treatment recommendations and trying to understand what the right approach is.

Katherine:                  

How is testing administered?

Dr. Gralow:                

So, for our inherited testing, those gene changes can be found in every cell in the body, so we can do that from a simple blood test where we just look at the blood cells. We can actually do it with our sputum and with a cheek swab, even. You can get enough of the DNA from the inside of the mouth to do that.

For a tumor’s genetics, we need some of the tumor, so that’s either done with a biopsy into the metastatic site or, as I mentioned before, increasingly, we’re exploring the potential for a liquid biopsy – so, drawing some blood and then trying to find pieces of the tumor that are shed into the blood.

Factors that Guide a Metastatic Breast Cancer Treatment Decision

Factors that Guide a Metastatic Breast Cancer Treatment Decision from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo

Dr. Julie Gralow discusses factors that affect metastatic breast cancer treatment decisions, including the cancer’s biology, the overall health of the patient, and treatment side effects.

Dr. Julie Gralow is the Jill Bennett Endowed Professor of Breast Medical Oncology at the University of Washington, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, and the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. More about this expert here.

See More From INSIST! Metastatic Breast Cancer

Related Resources:

 

What Could Metastatic Breast Cancer Genetic Testing Advances Mean for You?

What Are Essential Genetic Tests for Metastatic Breast Cancer Patients?

Metastatic Breast Cancer: Debunking Common Misconceptions

 

Transcript:

Katherine:                  

Well, Dr. Gralow, what other factors should be taken into consideration with a treatment route?

Dr. Gralow:                

I always like to think of the treatment decision as relying on three factors, and the first relates to the tumor factor, the cancer factor.

So, we talked a lot about the biology, the estrogen receptor, the HER2, the genomic profiling. So, that’s critical, but there are two other components that we need to really strongly consider when trying to devise the right treatment regimen. One of those is patient factors, and not just the patient’s genetics, but are they pre- or post-menopausal?

What is the age? Where are they in life? Are they young with young kids? Are they working, and is that an important priority for them? Are they older and with grandchildren, and they don’t need to work? What is it that would be critical? What are the patient’s priorities here, and what are their fears, what are the things they would – what would be really important as we plan a regimen? And so, the patient factors which would be patient priorities and where they are in life right now.

And then, there’s factors related to the treatment itself, which would include not just how effective it is, but – and, this is really important when trying to decide regimens – what are the side effects of a regimen? For some patients, hair loss is a big deal, and we can put it off as long as possible – maybe choosing the first couple regimens don’t cause hair loss sometimes.

But, for other people, that doesn’t matter to them. For some, we have oral – some regimens, and that could keep them out of the infusion room, and others actually – I’ve had patients who actually like coming into the infusion room regularly so that they can review the side effects and get the reassurance provided by it. So, we’ve got different route of administration of the drugs, different side effects. If you already had, for example, a neuropathy – a numbness/tingling of fingers and toes – from treatment that you might have gotten for early-stage disease, we’d probably want to avoid drugs where that’s their major side effect in the metastatic setting and that would increase that even further.

We’ve got some drugs that cause a lot of toxicity to our GI system – nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea – and other drugs that don’t. And so, understanding what symptoms the patient already has and actually tailoring the treatment based on some of the side effects of the drug could also be done, as well as how they’re administered. So, again, patient factors, tumor factors, and then, factors related to the treatment itself all come into play when we make decisions.

Katherine:                  

There have been so many advances in breast cancer research. What are you excited about in research right now?

Dr. Gralow:                

Well, every single drug that’s been approved, every single new regimen that’s been approved in breast cancer is the direct result of clinical trials, and this is a major part of my career, is to help patients get access to clinical trials and run important clinical trials that could lead to new discoveries – is this regimen better? What’s the toxicity?

Because until we have a cure for breast cancer, we need to do better, and we need to research better treatment options. So, doing trials, having access to clinical trials where you can participate, help move the science forward is key.

I think where we’re moving with breast cancer is the more we’re understanding the patient and the tumor, the more we’re realizing every single breast cancer is different, actually, and whereas when I started my training 20-plus years ago, breast cancer was breast cancer – we weren’t even using HER2 yet, we were just learning how to use estrogen receptor, and we kind of treated everything the same – now, we’re subsetting, and subsetting, and subsetting. Even in triple negative breast cancer now, which is about 18-20% of breast cancer, we’re subsetting.

Does that triple negative breast cancer have PD-L1, which is associated with being able to get immunotherapy drugs? Does it express androgen receptor? Because sometimes, even a breast cancer that doesn’t have estrogen or progesterone receptor can express the androgen receptor, like prostate cancer, and we can use some prostate cancer drugs. So, even triple negative breast cancer we’re subsetting and subsetting, and could that triple negative breast cancer be associated with a BRCA1 or 2 mutation, and then we can use the PARP inhibitors?

So, I’m actually really excited about that we’re learning more and more, and subsetting, and not treating breast cancer as one size fits all, and if we can better tailor the treatments to the patient and the tumor, that we are going to get to the point where I can tell my patients yes, we can get cures in metastatic breast cancer.

How Genetic Mutations Affect Metastatic Breast Cancer Prognosis and Treatment

How Genetic Mutations Affect Metastatic Breast Cancer Disease Progression and Prognosis from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Julie Gralow explains the impact of genetic mutations on metastatic breast cancer progression and prognosis, including how DNA repair genes function. 

Dr. Julie Gralow is the Jill Bennett Endowed Professor of Breast Medical Oncology at the University of Washington, Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, and the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. More about this expert here.

See More From INSIST! Metastatic Breast Cancer

Related Resources:

 

Metastatic Breast Cancer Staging: What Patients Should Know

What Are Essential Genetic Tests for Metastatic Breast Cancer Patients?

Metastatic Breast Cancer: Debunking Common Misconceptions

 

Transcript:

Katherine:                  

You’ve been referring to a number of terms. Patients may have heard the BRCA or “braca” that relate to breast cancer in genetics. Would you give us an overview of common mutations in breast cancer?

Dr. Gralow:

So, of the mutations that we can inherit, the first two that were discovered were BRCA1 and BRCA2, and for all breast cancer – not just metastatic, but all breast cancer – we think that maybe 5-10% of breast cancer is the direct result of the inheritance of a strong gene that gives you a high – not 100%, but a high likelihood of developing breast cancer.

So, for BRCA1 and 2, these two genes are associated predominantly with breast and ovarian cancer, and if you live out your normal lifespan, you could have up to a 75-80% chance of getting one of those two cancers, and breast cancer being more common. Also, some association with some other cancers including, interestingly, prostate cancer, which we’re learning more about.

So, BRCA1 and 2 are the most common, and they tend to be found – because they have such a high association with the risk of breast and ovarian cancer, they tend to be found in families that have a lot of other breast cancers, and also breast and ovarian cancer presenting at a younger age. So, you’ve inherited a gene that leads to a high predisposition, and the cancer occurs earlier.

So, whereas the average age of diagnosis of breast cancer in the U.S. is 61-62 most commonly, in a patient who’s inherited a BRCA1 or 2 gene mutation, it’s closer to 40-42 – so, a lot younger. And then, there are a variety of other genes that can be inherited that are either much less common or have a weaker link. So, for example, there are genes called CHEK2 or PALB2, ATM, P53 – I just mention that because some of the listeners will potentially have one of those mutations or have heard it. Those are either rarer or they’re associated with a weaker chance of getting cancer.

So, those might be more commonly found in a family that doesn’t have a lot of cancer in it because a carrier – the mother or the father – and their other relatives would have maybe only a 30% chance of getting breast cancer in some cases. So, there would be a lot of carriers who don’t get cancer.

So, as I mentioned earlier, I think it’s really important – especially right now in metastatic breast cancer – that pretty much everybody, even if you didn’t have a strong family history, even if you weren’t diagnosed at a young age, get tested because if we find one of these inherited mutations, we now have some additional treatment options, especially right now, approved for BRCA1 or 2, but clinical trials going on for many of these other genes.

Katherine:                  

How do these mutations affect disease progression and prognosis?

Dr. Gralow:                

So, most of the genes I’ve mentioned – in their normal state, they’re critical, actually. They’re called DNA repair genes, and their job in our life is when we accidentally make a mistake when we’re replicating our DNA and two cells are dividing, if there’s a mistake in the DNA, they go in and repair it. And, we’ve got all kinds of mechanisms to try to prevent mutations from happening as cells divide, and BRCA1 and 2 are a key part of that, and so, they’re fixing it.

So, if you inherit a mutation in one of those genes, you still have some ability to repair any routine mistakes that are being made, but over time, you have less ability, and then, if you get a cancer that has a deficiency in BRCA1 or 2, those cancers can be more sensitive to certain kinds of chemotherapy that affects DNA repair.

So, for example a class of chemotherapy agents called the platinum drugs – carboplatin and cisplatin – may be more effective in BRCA1- or 2-mutated cancers, also more generally in triple negative breast cancer because they can be more similar to BRCA1-mutated cancers in a lot of ways.

So, to go back to your original question, once a cancer has developed in a patient who has a BRCA1 or 2 mutation, we treat that cancer for what it is. So, it might have developed estrogen – have estrogen receptor on the surface or HER2, so we treat it as the subtype that developed, and actually, the chance of cure is just the same for BRCA1-associated breast cancer as it would be for one that doesn’t have a BRCA.

But, the chance of getting a second breast cancer – a totally new breast cancer – would be higher unless you chose to remove both of your breasts and the bulk of your breast tissue. So, decisions like surgery – if you had a known BRCA1 mutation, we’d treat the cancer you have now aggressively and for cure, but when you talk about your surgery options, we’d say doing more aggressive surgery, like removing both of your breasts – that’s not going to improve your chance of surviving the cancer you have now, but it will markedly reduce the chance of getting a second breast cancer.

So, you could consider that as an option for surgery – not to improve your chance of this cancer, but to reduce the chance of another breast cancer. So, your surgery decisions might be impacted by knowing your BRCA1 or 2 mutation. And then, clearly, if you had metastatic breast cancer, knowing if you had the option of a PARP inhibitor, one of the drugs in that class could be – you could have a different treatment option for drug therapy.