Tag Archive for: BCL-2 inhibitors
How Can We Effectively Manage Dose Adjustments to Balance Efficacy and Toxicity in CLL?
How Can We Effectively Manage Dose Adjustments to Balance Efficacy and Toxicity in CLL? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
For CLL dose modification, what are some techniques to optimize efficacy and to minimize toxicity? Experts Dr. Andres Chang from Emory University and Dr. Daniel Ermann from Huntsman Cancer Institute discuss common side effects they’ve seen in CLL patients and techniques they used for optimal care with minimized toxicity.
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Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Well, let’s move into talking about side effects. And you all have already alluded to the importance of dose modification with regard to side effects and minimizing toxicity. So I’m going to go to you, Dr. Ermann. What techniques do you use in your practice for optimizing treatment efficacy while minimizing toxicity? And feel free, if you’d like, to share a specific example.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Yeah. Great question. So in CLL, there are a lot of unique toxicities with our CLL-directed therapies. I’ll take, for example, BTK inhibitors. So BTK inhibitors have certain off-target effects. The way these medications work is they turn off BTK, and that’s like flipping a switch that decreases the growth of the CLL cells and eventually causes them to die. However, some of the unique toxicities we see are things like atrial fibrillation, bleeding, bruising, infections, to name a few.
So, for example, you would like to start a patient optimally on the maximum dose, which is the kind of recommended starting dose. However, let’s say a patient gets a side effect such as bleeding or atrial fibrillation, I usually will follow the package insert pretty closely. In most cases, the recommended management is to hold the drug until a side effect resolves and then resume at the same dose. In my practice, I found that with many of our novel therapies, there are some cases where you can continue the same dose, but oftentimes you’ll need to dose-reduce.
And I will say from my personal experience, I think dose reduction can make a big difference in the side effect profiles of these medications. I’ve seen reduced bleeding, for example, reduced rates of atrial fibrillation. With BCL-2 inhibitors, I’ve seen reduced rates of neutropenia, for example. And I’ll just say from my experience, I haven’t seen too much compromise in efficacy. So I think I would recommend for providers when you’re thinking about dose reduction, it’s really a balance of toxicity and efficacy. And I think with just how good our treatments are for CLL these days, I try to reduce toxicity. And I think in that way, it does maximize their efficacy.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. What about you, Dr. Chang? How do you approach dose adjustments for CLL patients, particularly those who may be experiencing severe side effects? And what factors influence your decision-making process?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, so first of all, I agree with Dr. Ermann that I think trying to mitigate side effects and oftentimes following the package insert is really, really helpful. One of the things that I want to add, though, is I do spend quite a bit of time before starting any medication, educating patients and trying to teach them about what potential side effects, what to look for. And importantly, if there are mechanisms to mitigate or prevent those side effects, I will spend quite a bit of time talking about that. And these can be things such as taking caffeine to prevent an acalabrutinib-induced (Calquence) headaches, for example, maintaining adequate fluid intake and hydration to minimize the risk of tumor lysis, and so forth.
I find that by spending that time with patients ahead of starting therapy, that oftentimes it allows patients to identify the side effect and also start addressing it even before needing to come back to the clinic. My team, in addition to myself, also spends quite a bit of time, and we perform phone calls, follow-up phone calls, and things like that, that are conducted by my pharmacist or by my nurse. And together, I find that oftentimes just by talking through these potential issues, patients will feel a lot better.
Now, depending on how severe an adverse event is, or a side effect is, I tend to potentially dose-reduce somewhat quicker. Or if there’s an alternative, like in the case of BTK inhibitors, I will be a little bit more prone to switching from one BTK inhibitor to another, because there is data suggesting that if you don’t tolerate one BTK inhibitor, you can tolerate a second one. And that’s particularly true if we are seeing some of these side effects that arise in the long term, particularly with ibrutinib (Imbruvica), and switching them to acalabrutinib or zanubrutinib (Brukinsa), oftentimes resolve those kinds of side effects. And I’ve seen that particularly true in cases where I see hypertension induced by ibrutinib (Imbruvica). I have a couple of patients where they are four or five years into ibrutinib therapy, came in with uncontrolled hypertension, I switched them to another BTK inhibitor, and the hypertension gets better controlled.
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Optimizing Dosing Strategies in CLL: Insights for Healthcare Providers
Optimizing Dosing Strategies in CLL: Insights for Healthcare Providers from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What can CLL healthcare professionals do to better understand novel therapy dosing? Expert Dr. Daniel Ermann from Huntsman Cancer Institute discusses how CLL treatment dosing typically begins and common situations when dose adjustments are made.
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Dr. Nicole Rochester:
How do CLL healthcare providers better understand dosing, particularly with the emergence of novel CLL therapies?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
So I think nowadays, most of us in the CLL community, we’re really no longer using chemotherapy. We’re using, like Dr. Chang said, we’re sticking to these novel agents, BCL-2 inhibitors, BTK inhibitors in the frontline setting. All of these medications have been studied to the optimal dose in their respective trials.
And for the most part, we start every patient, except for the venetoclax (Venclexta) ramp-up, we start all patients at the optimal dose for what we think for them is the maximum tolerated dose in the studies, which is the dose seen in the FDA package inserts and the recommended starting dose.
So I think for most patients, generally we start at what dose that is recommended. And then the only time we really begin to dose-reduce is as Dr. Chang mentioned, if we’re seeing side effects or intolerance. So these are things that I always start looking at very early when I start patients on treatments. I check in with my patients within the first two weeks of them starting a BTK inhibitor. And then during the venetoclax ramp-up with BCL-2 inhibitors, I keep a very close eye on them.
So I think though these novel therapies are extremely effective at treating CLL, they do come with some toxicities. And it’s important to be aware of the toxicities, to keep an eye on the patients when you start them and know what the dose reductions are and how to effectively manage them.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. And I just want to acknowledge and thank both of you for highlighting the importance of partnering with patients, particularly in an Empowering Providers to Empower Patients program. We understand that this is a partnership between the healthcare providers and the patients. And so I appreciate both of you really highlighting the importance of engaging with the patients and then making necessary adjustments.
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Optimizing CLL Therapy: Strategies for Dose Escalation and Reduction
Optimizing CLL Therapy: Strategies for Dose Escalation and Reduction from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What’s the reasoning behind CLL therapy dose escalation and dose reduction? Expert Dr. Andres Chang from Emory University discusses common treatment scenarios when dose escalation and dose reduction are used in CLL patient care.
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Dr. Nicole Rochester:
As the treatment landscape evolves for CLL, for some patient populations that need therapy, what is the rationale and evidence behind both dose escalation and dose reduction?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Well, so I think that the question of whether to dose-escalate or dose-reduce really depends on the treatment we’re talking about. For new therapies like BCL-2 inhibitors such as venetoclax (Venclexta), we do dose escalation at the beginning of therapy to mitigate potential side effects such as tumor lysis syndrome, whereas in most of the other scenarios we will try to do dose reductions in order to mitigate adverse events.
In all of these patients and in all of these cases, we do take into account the patient’s comorbidities. In the case of venetoclax, for instance, we think of whether patients have kidney dysfunction, and in the case of BTK inhibitors whether they have concomitant heart disease, hypertension, whether they are on anticoagulation, and also we take into account what other medications they have, in particular whether they have medications that affect their cytochrome P450 system.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Is there anything specific that you think healthcare providers need to know with regard to dose escalation and dose reduction?
Dr. Andres Chang
So dose escalation in terms of venetoclax initiation is, we already have a pretty well-established protocol that is on the label of the medication, and this is really mainly to mitigate the risk of tumor lysis syndrome. And in terms of dose reduction, I think it really depends again on which therapy we are talking about and also on which particular side effect we’re talking about.
And so I really encourage all the providers to really inquire and look into what potential side effects the patient might have so that you can adequately address this, because each side effect can be addressed or should be addressed with a different kind of strategy.
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HCP Roundtable: Fine-Tuning CLL Dose Modification and Side Effect Management Strategies
HCP Roundtable: Fine-Tuning CLL Dose Modification and Side Effect Management Strategies from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What is the rationale and evidence behind dose optimization approaches in CLL treatment? What role does patient education play in recognizing and managing CLL treatment-related side effects? Dr. Andres Chang of Emory Healthcare and Dr. Daniel Ermann of Huntsman Cancer Institute discuss optimizing CLL care and the importance of empowering your CLL patients during their treatment journey.
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Transcript:
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Welcome to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP) program. I’m your host, Dr. Nicole Rochester. EPEP is a Patient Empowerment Network program that serves as a secure space for health care providers to learn techniques for improving physician-patient communication and overcome practice barriers. In this CLL roundtable, we are exploring fine-tuning CLL dose modification and side effect management strategies.
As the chronic lymphocytic leukemia treatment landscape evolves, we’re going to talk about the rationale and evidence behind dose optimization approaches in CLL treatment for those who may need therapy. We’ll also discuss strategies for dose modifications to mitigate adverse events while maintaining treatment efficacy, as well as approaches that are transforming CLL side effect management.
It is my honor and privilege to be joined by Dr. Andres Chang, Instructor in the Department of Hematology and Medical Oncology at Emory University School of Medicine. Dr. Chang specializes in treating patients with hematological malignancies including leukemia and lymphoma. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Chang.
Dr. Andres Chang:
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
It is also my pleasure to be joined by Dr. Daniel Ermann, Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematology and Hematologic Malignancies at the Huntsman Cancer Institute. Dr. Ermann specializes in the treatment of patients with chronic lymphocytic leukemia and other forms of Hodgkin’s and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and he is passionate about working towards a cure. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Ermann.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
So let’s start the conversation with dose modification, and I’m going to start with you, Dr. Chang. As the treatment landscape evolves for CLL, for some patient populations that need therapy, what is the rationale and evidence behind both dose escalation and dose reduction?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Well, so I think that the question of whether to dose-escalate or dose-reduce really depends on the treatment we’re talking about. For new therapies like BCL-2 inhibitors such as venetoclax (Venclexta), we do dose escalation at the beginning of therapy to mitigate potential side effects such as tumor lysis syndrome, whereas in most of the other scenarios we will try to do dose reductions in order to mitigate adverse events.
In all of these patients and in all of these cases, we do take into account the patient’s comorbidities. In the case of venetoclax, for instance, we think of whether patients have kidney dysfunction, and in the case of BTK inhibitors whether they have concomitant heart disease, hypertension, whether they are on anticoagulation, and also we take into account what other medications they have, in particular whether they have medications that affect their cytochrome P450 system.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Chang. Is there anything specific that you think healthcare providers need to know with regard to dose escalation and dose reduction?
Dr. Andres Chang:
So dose escalation in terms of venetoclax initiation is, we already have a pretty well-established protocol that is on the label of the medication, and this is really mainly to mitigate the risk of tumor lysis syndrome. And in terms of dose reduction, I think it really depends again on which therapy we are talking about and also on which particular side effect we’re talking about. And so I really encourage all the providers to really inquire and look into what potential side effects the patient might have so that you can adequately address this, because each side effect can be addressed or should be addressed with a different kind of strategy.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful. Thank you, Dr. Chang. Dr. Ermann, I’m going to come to you. How do CLL healthcare providers better understand dosing, particularly with the emergence of novel CLL therapies?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Yeah. Thank you so much for the question. So I think nowadays, most of us in the CLL community, we’re really no longer using chemotherapy. We’re using, like Dr. Chang said, we’re sticking to these novel agents, BCL-2 inhibitors, BTK inhibitors in the frontline setting. All of these medications have been studied to the optimal dose in their respective trials. And for the most part, we start every patient, except for the venetoclax ramp-up, we start all patients at the optimal dose for what we think for them is the maximum tolerated dose in the studies, which is the dose seen in the FDA package inserts and the recommended starting dose.
So I think for most patients, generally we start at what dose that is recommended. And then the only time we really begin to dose-reduce is as Dr. Chang mentioned, if we’re seeing side effects or intolerance. So these are things that I always start looking at very early when I start patients on treatments. I check in with my patients within the first two weeks of them starting a BTK inhibitor. And then during the venetoclax ramp-up with BCL-2 inhibitors, I keep a very close eye on them.
So I think though these novel therapies are extremely effective at treating CLL, they do come with some toxicities. And it’s important to be aware of the toxicities, to keep an eye on the patients when you start them and know what the dose reductions are and how to effectively manage them.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. And I just want to acknowledge and thank both of you for highlighting the importance of partnering with patients, particularly in an Empowering Providers to Empower Patients program. We understand that this is a partnership between the healthcare providers and the patients. And so I appreciate both of you really highlighting the importance of engaging with the patients and then making necessary adjustments.
So, Dr. Chang, can you speak to any unforeseen or outdated practice-related barriers that may actually hinder your work and that of your colleagues as it relates to understanding CLL dosing?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, even though most of us in the CLL community have already moved to these novel targeted therapies, we do occasionally still see patients are referred to our centers who have undergone frontline chemo-immunotherapy, which for the vast majority of the patients nowadays, there really shouldn’t be an indication for that sort of treatment anymore. And so I think one of the main limitations is that we are using or at least some providers are using frontline chemo-immunotherapy and by doing so, they negate the great benefits that these novel targeted therapies have, particularly again in frontline setting.
Other unforeseen or outdated practices might be related to how patients, how we optimally mitigate the tumor lysis risks. And also occasionally, we might see some referrals from community practice physicians with patients who have CLL, and they have recurrent cytopenias or persistent cytopenias while in therapy, and they attribute it to toxicity of the therapy. Where in reality, if you do a bone marrow biopsy, they might be having a lot in the bone marrow, and that might be the answer for this particular so-called toxicity, but in reality it’s actually disease progression.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Chang. So, Dr. Ermann, based on what Dr. Chang just shared and some of these, sounds like maybe knowledge or practice gaps, what are some solutions? How can we begin to bridge these gaps so that patients are receiving the best of the best with regard to therapy?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
So there’s a little bit of, I would say that there can be a little bit of delay in certain providers changing their practice to the current academic approach. I think that from what I’ve seen, the best way to manage it is when patients are seen in the community by providers, I personally have quite a good relationship with many community providers in the community setting. And I encourage those providers if they get a new patient diagnosed with CLL, to recommend a CLL consultation.
And I would advocate that the patients also look into their disease and see whether or not a CLL consultation with an expert in the field of lymphoma or CLL may be good for them. And in those ways I’ve seen, personally I co-manage many patients across the Western United States. They’re still able to be seen by their local oncologist and also be seen for consideration of clinical trials in the CLL space when indicated for their more rare disease.
So I do think it comes from both providers and patients, but I think empowering your patients, letting them know that there are other doctors who may specialize in a condition that they have is really important. And when patients do that, not only are they happy, their local oncologist is happy. It makes it kind of better for everyone.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Ermann. I love that idea of a team-based approach. Thank you so much. Well, let’s move into talking about side effects. And you all have already alluded to the importance of dose modification with regard to side effects and minimizing toxicity. So I’m going to go to you, Dr. Ermann. What techniques do you use in your practice for optimizing treatment efficacy while minimizing toxicity? And feel free, if you’d like, to share a specific example.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Yeah. Great question. So in CLL, there are a lot of unique toxicities with our CLL-directed therapies. I’ll take, for example, BTK inhibitors. So BTK inhibitors have certain off-target effects. The way these medications work is they turn off BTK, and that’s like flipping a switch that decreases the growth of the CLL cells and eventually causes them to die. However, some of the unique toxicities we see are things like atrial fibrillation, bleeding, bruising, infections, to name a few.
So, for example, you would like to start a patient optimally on the maximum dose, which is the kind of recommended starting dose. However, let’s say a patient gets a side effect such as bleeding or atrial fibrillation, I usually will follow the package insert pretty closely. In most cases, the recommended management is to hold the drug until a side effect resolves and then resume at the same dose. In my practice, I found that with many of our novel therapies, there are some cases where you can continue the same dose, but oftentimes you’ll need to dose-reduce.
And I will say from my personal experience, I think dose reduction can make a big difference in the side effect profiles of these medications. I’ve seen reduced bleeding, for example, reduced rates of atrial fibrillation. With BCL-2 inhibitors, I’ve seen reduced rates of neutropenia, for example. And I’ll just say from my experience, I haven’t seen too much compromise in efficacy. So I think I would recommend for providers when you’re thinking about dose reduction, it’s really a balance of toxicity and efficacy. And I think with just how good our treatments are for CLL these days, I try to reduce toxicity. And I think in that way, it does maximize their efficacy.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. What about you, Dr. Chang? How do you approach dose adjustments for CLL patients, particularly those who may be experiencing severe side effects? And what factors influence your decision-making process?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, so first of all, I agree with Dr. Ermann that I think trying to mitigate side effects and oftentimes following the package insert is really, really helpful. One of the things that I want to add, though, is I do spend quite a bit of time before starting any medication, educating patients and trying to teach them about what potential side effects, what to look for. And importantly, if there are mechanisms to mitigate or prevent those side effects, I will spend quite a bit of time talking about that. And these can be things such as taking caffeine to prevent an acalabrutinib-induced (Calquence) headaches, for example, maintaining adequate fluid intake and hydration to minimize the risk of tumor lysis, and so forth.
I find that by spending that time with patients ahead of starting therapy, that oftentimes it allows patients to identify the side effect and also start addressing it even before needing to come back to the clinic. My team, in addition to myself, also spends quite a bit of time, and we perform phone calls, follow-up phone calls, and things like that, that are conducted by my pharmacist or by my nurse. And together, I find that oftentimes just by talking through these potential issues, patients will feel a lot better.
Now, depending on how severe an adverse event is, or a side effect is, I tend to potentially dose-reduce somewhat quicker. Or if there’s an alternative, like in the case of BTK inhibitors, I will be a little bit more prone to switching from one BTK inhibitor to another, because there is data suggesting that if you don’t tolerate one BTK inhibitor, you can tolerate a second one.
And that’s particularly true if we are seeing some of these side effects that arise in the long term, particularly with ibrutinib (Imbruvica), and switching them to acalabrutinib or zanubrutinib (Brukinsa), oftentimes resolve those kinds of side effects. And I’ve seen that particularly true in cases where I see hypertension induced by ibrutinib (Imbruvica). I have a couple of patients where they are four or five years into ibrutinib therapy, came in with uncontrolled hypertension, I switched them to another BTK inhibitor, and the hypertension gets better controlled.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Chang. I just really appreciate again how both of you are continuing to highlight the importance of a multidisciplinary team. So the importance of involving the patients, educating the patients, both ahead of time and as you’re beginning treatment. And also, you mentioned bringing in the pharmacists and bringing in your nurses and all of the other members of the support team. So I really, I really appreciate that. And speaking of patient education, Dr. Ermann, I’d love for you to share if you can have any ideas around the role that patient education plays in recognizing and managing treatment-related side effects.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Yeah, absolutely. So I’m a big advocate on educating patients, and I completely agree with what Dr. Chang mentioned. I think prevention is the key. I think the more work you can do up front to improve the outcomes down the road, the better. So in my experience, what I do for my patients in the clinic when it comes to education is I actually, I do quite a bit of, quite a few things. So I not only do I myself personally educate the patient on the drug, I also have my pharmacist meet with the patient either in person or over the phone depending on where things are at. I also print out handouts, because occasionally we hear a lot of things and as patients, sometimes it can be overwhelming, even as doctors, it can be overwhelming hearing a lot of things at once.
So I like to print things out for my patients, whether it be from UpToDate pages, whether it be from things like the websites that have drug information like Chemocare, etcetera etcetera. And I also utilize kind of these free sheets that you can find throughout…from many different organizations such as, like Lymphoma Research Foundation or others that have drug information, safety information.
And then I also recommend them easy ways to contact us, whether it be through like a messaging app or calling our office with questions. I think that educating your patients on what to expect with these drugs is really important. Fortunately in CLL, a lot of our medications, though there are some unique toxicities, are overwhelmingly much better tolerated than many other therapies for other cancers. So that is one good thing. So you want to give them enough information, but you don’t want to scare them to thinking that they’re going to have the worst of every situation, but I think it’s very important, especially up front, and then most patients will see how different drugs affect them.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. I love that you’re offering multiple different ways, because like you said, some people may be auditory learners. Many of the patients, when they’re hearing this information for the first time, as you alluded to, they’re going to be overwhelmed. They’re not going to remember. So I love the idea of also leaving them with something in writing that they can refer to later. What about you, Dr. Chang? You’ve been doing this for a while now. Are there any specific strategies or something that works really well for you, a particular tactic as it relates to educating your patients about side effects?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more with Dr. Ermann. I spend quite a bit of time, again, speaking directly to my patients, having my team speak to my patients, and I follow many of the similar strategies that Dr. Ermann has already mentioned. In particular, places like Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, Leukemia Lymphoma Research Foundation, the CLL Society, all those societies have a wealth of information about the different treatments and approaches that we normally use for CLL. And I find it very useful that as part of our discharge paperwork from clinic, we do include links to those societies so that they can find additional information.
And aside from that, I think once you have a good rapport with a patient and your team has a good rapport with a patient, as long as there’s good communication either through the patient portal, through phone calls, through return visits, I find that once patients are very well-educated, then they are actually very comfortable starting therapy and pretty much know exactly what to expect at each step in the therapy. Whether it is a dose escalation week for venetoclax, for example, or what happens when we have to hold a medication for a procedure, when to restart, and those sorts of things.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful. Thank you both. Well, we’ve talked about the importance of educating patients. We’re going to circle back to our healthcare providers. And, Dr. Chang, I’m going to stay with you for a moment. Can you share any successful strategies for healthcare provider to healthcare provider education, any innovative approaches with regard to side effect management in CLL?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, I think that as important as educating patients, educating other healthcare providers is as critical. And as such, I think one of the missions that we have at academic institutions is that we should also offer some educational aspect to our consultant physicians across the community or nurse practitioners or nursing staff.
And so one of the things that I commonly do is that my notes tend to have a couple of paragraphs that explain my rationale behind the recommendations with sources, primary sources of information if they want to look up any particular data where I’m basing my decision on. And that happens both in terms of picking this treatment versus this other treatment, what is the efficacy data, but also for side effect and adverse events data.
I also, as part of the Winship Cancer Institute, we have a big outreach program to our community. And I’m sure Dr. Ermann has [this] too over at Utah, where we have outreach programs and reach out to other community oncologists, trying to give them information about the newest and latest therapies. We do symposia. And we also have an app where community oncologists can actually look us up directly and give us a call or something that, in case they run into problems.
And then we are happy to talk to them and help guide the management of their particular patients. I find that this kind of verbal communication and live direct provider-to-provider contact has been very useful. And I think that the community oncologists have really appreciated that.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
I’m sure that they do. That is amazing. That’s awesome. What about you, Dr. Ermann? Do you have anything to add in terms of what you all are doing at your institution to communicate with other healthcare providers?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
I just have to say Dr. Chang and I were on the same page. I completely agree with everything he said. I think that he is…it’s we’re super imposable at this point. I do the exact same things as he does, which is great, I think. I think that that’s fantastic. A couple other things I would just say as well is that I agree 100 percent. Communication is the biggest thing. Communication is not only one of the most important things, but it also can be a big barrier. So I think fostering communication between, a lot of what I do is deal with local oncologists as the academics. So I may only see patients a couple times a year, whereas the local oncologist may see them a couple times a month.
And so having an open line of communication, whether it be cell phone, like occasionally I’ll be texting local providers, calling them, having their phone number is very helpful, emailing back and forth. And then after I see patients, similar to Dr. Chang, I document well in my notes. And I also have my team send the note to them through fax or other means. So things like that, I think are very valuable and important and I think are game-changers when it comes to excellent patient care, because the communication barrier can sometimes be one of the biggest ones.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Absolutely. Thank you for that. Before we wrap up, we know that social media is often leveraged in healthcare among providers. And I think you mentioned, Dr. Chang, an app. So are there any other digital tools or are there ways that either of you leverage social media in order to manage side effects, either with education to providers or to patients? And, Dr. Ermann, I’ll start with you on this one.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Sure. So social media is a tricky one, because not everyone uses it. Also in CLL in particular, our median patient age is around 70 years of age, and not too many of my 70-year-old patients are on, but they can be. So I think as a provider, there are a couple of things. I’ll be honest, Twitter is actually, can be a great resource. If you follow certain providers in the field, you’ll get some updated information before anyone else, including especially during our annual ASH meeting, there’s an ASH app. And if you could attend the meeting, you’ll see that most updated data. And you can see that on Twitter and/or X as well. Other than that, we also have a Huntsman app similar to Emory. But I think that that’s about as far as social media goes for me. What about you, Dr. Chang?
Dr. Andres Chang:
I agree with Dr. Ermann that places like X and LinkedIn, if you follow the right people, you can get very useful information. And I think that that’s particularly true for people within the academic community and healthcare providers. But for patients per se, I think that this could be a little bit more tricky. And so I try to steer them away from that, in fact, and I try to kind of keep them within the main resources.
And if they have any questions or they have…or they’re confused about something, I always tell them, feel free to send me a message, and we’re happy to discuss whatever you read. And so I find that patients really appreciate the openness of discussing data because sometimes the data might be not very accurate. And by having that trust, they find it comfortable talking about things that might not be as conventional as we might think so.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful. Fully understood. There are certainly some risks associated with getting information from social media. So I appreciate you all providing that balance. Well, it’s time to wrap up our roundtable. And, as always, this has been an incredibly enlightening conversation. So as we close, I’d love to get closing thoughts from each of you. And I’ll start with you, Dr. Chang. What is the most important takeaway that you want to leave with those healthcare providers who are listening and watching this program?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, I think that the most important takeaways are actually two things, I think. One is really, really important to educate patients about their disease, about their treatment, about the potential side effects, and also to try to anticipate and mitigate those potential side effects so that patients know exactly what they’re expecting.
And then the second thing is really essential to have a great team around you because practicing medicine, particularly oncology, is not a solo practice. We really need a village to take care of our patients. And so having well-trained nurses, having excellent clinical pharmacists, all of them are essential members of the team that will help with patient care.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful, Dr. Chang. Thank you. And, Dr. Ermann, what are some closing thoughts you’d like to leave with our audience today?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
I would say is that I would say don’t be afraid. In medicine, there’s often this thought that reducing treatment doses or things like that is a bad thing and you shouldn’t do it. I would say I would empower providers to not be afraid to dose-reduce, especially to mitigate very undesirable toxicities. So I’d say don’t be afraid to dose-reduce. There’s a lot of, at least in some of our medications, good efficacy data showing that dose reductions can have similar, if not the same, efficacy profile while mitigating toxicity. So I would say don’t be afraid to dose reduce, especially if the toxicities are not improving. Don’t be afraid to dose-hold.
And when it comes to empowering our patients more, I’m a big advocate on empowering patients. Particularly diseases like CLL, where two-thirds of patients at diagnosis don’t require treatment, and they’re told that they have cancer, and then all of a sudden they’re told that they don’t need treatment can be very scary. And I think that’s when patients feel like they have their disease understood and that they’re doing the best that they can for their own disease, it makes it better for everyone involved.
So I think empowering both providers and patients is kind of the optimal way to do things. And those are the best patients. When you deal with someone who knows their cancer, knows what’s going on, sometimes I get patients they know as much or more than me and I’m like, wow, this is incredible. Those are the best.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
That is such a perfect way to end this program. An empowered patient is the best patient. Thank you so much, Dr. Chang. Thank you so much, Dr. Ermann, for this amazing discussion about managing side effects and managing dose modifications and educating patients and educating providers with regard to CLL. Thank you again for tuning in to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients, Patient Empowerment Network Program. I’m Dr. Nicole Rochester. Have an amazing day.
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Start Here: Bridging the CLL Expert and CLL Patient Voice
Chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) can sometimes feel overwhelming and complicated, but what can patients and care partners do to help improve their care? With this question in mind, the Patient Empowerment Network initiated the START HERE CLL program, which aims to close the gap in the expert and patient voice to build empowerment.
START HERE CLL Program Resources
The program series includes the following resources:
- START HERE Patient-Expert Q&A Webinars with experts Dr. Ryan Jacobs and Dr. Danielle Brander moderated by Empowerment Lead, Lisa Hatfield.
- START HERE Library of resources has kicked off with a resource guide in both English and Spanish filled with CLL educational and support resources, along with expert tips.
- Your START HERE 90-Day Plan personalized with resources from PEN’s trusted advocacy partners.
- START HERE Activity Guide a downloadable, printable support resource packed with information and activities to educate, empower, and support CLL patients and care partners in their journeys through care.
- START HERE Text Alerts to receive personalized support from PEN Empowerment Leads.
Patient-Expert Q&A Webinar Topics and Key Takeaways
In the Patient-Expert Q&A webinars, CLL experts Dr. Ryan Jacobs from Levine Cancer Institute, and Dr. Danielle Brander from Duke Cancer Institute shared their expert knowledge to help patients and care partners fortify their knowledge and confidence. The webinars provided some in-depth discussion along with key takeaways derived from questions submitted by patients. Some of the discussion covered:
- Emerging CLL Research | Understanding the CAPTIVATE and MAJIC Studies
- IGHV-Mutated vs IGHV-Unmutated CLL | What’s the Difference?
- Concerned About CLL Watch and Wait? Start Here
- CLL & Relapse: A Look at Available Treatment Options
- CLL Genetic Markers: What Should I Ask About Prognostic Factors?
- CLL and BTK Inhibitor Treatment: What Are the Risk Factors?
- Can CLL Treatment Cause Gastrointestinal Side Effects?
- Is It Aging or My CLL?
- CLL and Vaccines | Vital Advice for Protecting Patients
- Are There Signs of Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Progression?
- How Can I Ensure My CLL Doesn’t Progress to Richter’s Transformation?
- Can Lifestyle or Supplements Impact CLL Treatment Response?
- BTK Inhibitor Treatment Side Effects | What CLL Patients Should Know
- START HERE CLL Resource Guide
- START HERE CLL Resource Guide en Español
Among some key points from the webinars, Lisa and Dr. Jacobs discussed the importance of genetic markers. Dr. Jacobs recommended CLL patients ask their doctor about their prognostic markers. “The one that is still potentially affecting outcomes, even with our novel treatments, are chromosome 17 aberrations, which stately are rare in the initial diagnostic setting, that or a TP53.”
The watch-and-wait phase of CLL, also called active surveillance, is a common term heard by CLL patients. However, there are actually two types of CLL. “While some CLL patients experience very gradual disease progression and are actively monitored during a watch-and-wait phase, other patients may experience a more expedited CLL progression and will need more frequent treatment.”
Treatment advancements for CLL have been moving forward over recent years. Dr. Brander shared her perspective about the advancements. “So over the last decade or even the last five years, for patients diagnosed with CLL, there’s been a very encouraging and marked change in the available treatments…not that many years ago we generally only had chemotherapy or chemotherapy combined with these antibody targeted treatments that we call immunotherapy sometimes. But in the last 5 to 10 years we’ve seen quite a remarkable change in treatments that target, meaning often they go after pathways or ways that the CLL cells have learned to grow or have learned to not die the way that normal cells should, die after certain time points.”
Vaccines for those with CLL have gathered more visibility in recent years with COVID-19. Dr. Jacobs addressed some questions about vaccination and shared, “I in general am recommending, as does the CDC, to get boosted every six months for patients with any level of immune suppression and having CLL qualifies you as that. And then I recommend all of the general vaccines that come with age, like, for example, the Shingrix vaccine for shingles is now safe to give to CLL patients because it’s a conjugate vaccine, it’s not a live virus vaccine. So we’re lucky now with just standard vaccines in the U.S., there are no live virus vaccines that the CLL patient has to worry about anymore, so I definitely encourage shingles, pneumonia vaccines, boosting for COVID. We’ll see if we get an RSV vaccine, that sounds like it’s on the horizon. Flu, of course.”
Worries about CLL progression are felt by many patients, and there are some ways to stay alert for warning signs. Expert Dr. Jacobs explained signs of CLL progression including new or worsened drenching night sweats, significant changes in a patient’s ability to function, and major changes in lymph nodes over a short period. Dr. Jacobs also shared some research updates for treatments that have shown success against progression to Richter’s transformation. “…I’ve been having some recent success using CAR T in those patients, and also now have a, I was thankfully getting it sort of off-label approval to do that, but now I actually have a clinical trial investigating axicabtagene ciloleucel (Yescarta) in those patients.”
Some CLL patients wonder about whether they can take a break from treatment. Dr. Brander addressed this question about BTK inhibitors. “…BTK inhibitors are given continuously, meaning, at least so far, the standard way we recommend of those treatments is that they’re taken every day, either once or twice a day, depending on which BTK inhibitor, and they’re taken every day. Unless patients run into progression, meaning the CLL learns to grow through its resistance or patients run into side effects that despite maybe team’s recommendation of changing the dose or holding the medications, that it’s just the medication is just not tolerate.”
Many CLL patients also wonder about the impact of exercise on their treatment response and their duration of treatment response. Dr. Brander explained about the impact of exercise. “I think certainly trials or studies really need to be continuing to look at this, because I think there likely are things that we can be more specific to patients about. There are studies looking at physical fitness and exercise regimens not necessarily specific to CLL, although there are studies being done in that space, but to other cancers showing that physical activity and exercise can help even for patients not on treatment maintain control of their cancer. So general daily activity and exercise are important in studies that look at how do you tailor that to an individual I think are important too.”
Whether patient fatigue is originating from CLL or from symptoms of old age can sometimes be difficult to determine. Dr. Jacobs shared some insight about fatigue. “Fatigue, I’m not as confident when that’s the only issue that a patient’s having. I try to differentiate between fatigue from other causes and old age, and specifically to CLL. They try to put it as a metric and say, if you’re having to spend half the day or more just lying around and you’re not able to do your normal activities of daily living, like that’s a severe level of fatigue and treatment should be considered. I’m looking for somewhat of a precipitous decline, not necessarily just kind of the gradual fatigue that you might more relate to aging.”
Some program participants provided valuable testimonials and insights on what they learned from the START HERE CLL Patient-Expert Q&A webinars:
Testimonials:
- “I love PEN webinars because I feel I have a direct connection with the best experts. I have many questions for my team after this program, thank you.”
- “This program was stellar. I learned a lot that I have to address with my doctor.”
- “I have a greater comfort level with promising treatment options.”
- “I was most interested in learning about treatment options for relapsed patients and Dr. Jacobs provided great information. THANK YOU!”
- “This was very helpful as I consider how to support my sister who has been diagnosed with CLL.”
Learnings:
- “What BTK and BCL-2 inhibitors are…How Fish looks for DNA for Leukemia cells. And how exercise can help any cancer patient. Thanks for the program!”
- “Even though I am Watch & Wait, I appreciated the information and explanation of the latest treatments.”
- “Fantastic program. Learned about many reasons docs decide not to treat.”
- “I learned about some potential treatment options should I relapse.”
Many other questions were raised during the CLL Patient-Expert Q&A webinars. We hope you can use these valuable CLL resources to build your knowledge and confidence toward becoming a more empowered patient or care partner.
Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Research and EVOLVE Trial Updates
Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Research and EVOLVE Trial Updates from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What’s the latest in chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) research? Expert Dr. Danielle Brander shares research updates and an update about the EVOLVE trial by the SWOG cooperative group.
Dr. Danielle Brander is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies & Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Learn more about Dr. Danielle Brander.
Download Resource Guide | Descargar Guía en Español
Related Programs:
Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Prognosis and Treatment Factors |
Common Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Symptoms and Follow-Up Tests |
Transcript:
Lisa Hatfield:
Can you talk a little bit about the novel pathways and targets that are currently under investigation in CLL, and what are the most important highlights from those for patients and their families and care partners?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Yes. So over the last decade or even the last five years, for patients diagnosed with CLL, there’s been a very encouraging and market change in the available treatments that is, you know, not that many years ago we generally only had chemotherapy or chemotherapy combined with these antibody targeted treatments that we call immunotherapy sometimes.
But in the last 5 to 10 years we’ve seen quite a remarkable change in treatments that target, meaning often they go after pathways or ways that the CLL cells have learned to grow or have learned to not die the way that normal cells should, die after certain time points. The two main categories of treatments that are approved for CLL treatment, either for patients as a first treatment or patients that have had treatment before including prior chemo or other agents are called BTK inhibitors or BCL-2 inhibitors.
BTK is something inside the leukemia cells. It’s also in some of our other cells. But in the CLL cells particularly, they’re very sensitive in needing that protein. So in targeting that BTK inhibitors keep the cells from getting the normal signals that they need to stay alive, and so the lymph nodes that are big get smaller, a spleen that might be big get smaller, white count eventually comes back down, for example.
And those BTK inhibitors have also already encouragingly changed over recent years. So there was…you’ll hear people say first generation, these were the first inhibitors that came out, that was a drug called ibrutinib (Imbruvica), which is still around. And then there are second generation that are approved that have come out as first treatment or treatment for previously patients that receive treatment.
Those second-generation BTK inhibitors are called zanubrutinib (Brukinsa) and acalabrutinib (Calquence) that are approved. The main other approved category of these targeted treatments I mentioned is venetoclax based treatment. And that targets something different, that targets a set of proteins inside the cell that tell the cell to stay alive too long. And so you have this accumulation and venetoclax targets that pathway. And the last thing I’ll mention about the BTK inhibitors that’s emerging is now there are trials of what are called non-covalent BTK inhibitors.
So they work in a different way, they go after BTK and so that they can work. The non-covalent, even for patients where the first and second-generation, traditional covalent BTK inhibitors I mentioned stop working, those are not yet approved officially for CLL, though they’re approved in mantle cell lymphoma. That’s a drug called pirtobrutinib (Jaypirca), that’s a non-covalent BTK. And the reason that emerging set of treatment, as I mentioned, is important is because it can work for patients where the first or second-generation covalent BTK inhibitors stop working. The venetoclax (Venclexta), as I mentioned, works by a different mechanism. So patients, of course, where the BTK stopped working, in many cases venetoclax can be helpful as well.
Lisa Hatfield:
So I read a little bit, I did a little research on trials that you’re involved in, and there is a trial the EVOLVE CLL trial, and I wonder if you can talk about that a little bit because I think it is exciting for patients to hear that there might be an option for earlier intervention. And I’m not sure if you’re allowed to talk about any results yet, but if you can speak to results, that would be great to hear about those results too.
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Well, yes and no, thank you for bringing this up because this is very important. As you mentioned, it’s called the EVOLVE study. It’s led by a national cooperative group called SWOG, meaning there are lots of places that it’s available, not just larger centers, but smaller oncology centers as well. And this is to look at what’s called early intervention, meaning as we spoke about before, most patients with CLL don’t need treatment at the time that they’re diagnosed.
The reasons for treatment are, we call those treatment indications are based on three main categories that I’ll just review. For some patients, it’s new or progressive symptoms like weight loss or, very symptomatic limiting life day-to-day activities like night sweats or fatigue, for example, that’s the first category of reasons some patients might need treatment is unmanageable side effects.
The second main category is if the lymph nodes get very large or impacting on organ function, or the same for the spleen, it’s getting very large to a certain size, or it’s affecting your ability to eat regular meals or losing weight. And then the last category of treatment indications that we generally wait to start treatment for are if it’s affecting the normal blood count.
So there’s not one magic white count where patients need to start treatment, but almost like weeds in a garden, if those CLL cells are crowding out the red blood cells, so the hemoglobin’s falling or it’s crowding out the platelets, so the platelets are crowding and can’t grow and reach a certain threshold, then we recommend treatment. Of course, there are scattered other reasons, but those are the main three categories. And the reason of waiting to start until those are met is because historically trials have been done to look at waiting for those indications versus treating around the time of diagnosis.
Those trials so far have included, chemotherapy by itself or chemotherapy in combination. And most recently there was a trial looking at first-generation ibrutinib that was given continuously. And so far there’s been no survival. So no life expectancy benefit to early treatment versus waiting for those indications. And the other reason generally not treating all patients is because some patients never require treatment, about a quarter of patients.
So if we offer treatment to everybody, at the time of diagnosis, there are patients that would get treatment that would be exposed to side effects and never needed. But what the EVOLVE study is uniquely looking at is randomizing. And randomizing means some patients will get treatment and some patients will wait until those traditional reasons to need treatment. But for those randomized to receive therapy, it’s that venetoclax based treatment combined with this antibody called obinutuzumab (Gazyva).
And the way that treatment is given for patients, is the same way it’s given for patients who outside of the trial need treatment, meaning they get the antibody infusion, then they get the venetoclax pill, but it’s for a fixed duration, meaning a total of one year of treatment. The trial is also only for patients with higher-risk CLL. So as I mentioned, some patients never need treatment, some patients do, some patients need it quicker.
So rather than looking at this trial and saying all patients, including those with CLL, that’s likely to be slower-growing. The EVOLVE trial is only for patients who are more likely to need treatment in the next couple of years. And the way that’s determined is a score called the CLL-IPI score, and CLL-IPI tries to identify patients more likely to need treatment in the next couple of years by a couple of key factors.
Stage at the time of diagnosis, it looks at age, and it looks at key factors of the leukemia itself, including something called deletion 17P or TP53, because that marker in the cells is a high risk of eventually needing treatment. So to answer your question, what EVOLVE is looking at is taking higher-risk patients, so patients rather than all patients more likely to need treatment anyway, and around the time of diagnosis, randomizing to either be treated or to follow the traditional, sometimes called watch and wait or dynamic monitoring until they reach traditional markers. And ultimately, and it’ll likely take many years to look at, ultimately the question is looking at if that helps prolong patient survival by having higher-risk patients receive that fixed-duration treatment earlier in time. We don’t yet have any results or any results to share, because the study is still enrolling.
Dr. Danielle Brander:
But again, I think it’s something for patients to be aware of, because it does look at the higher risk patients. But around a year, it has to be within a year of diagnosis. So patients who are newly diagnosed, the question to ask your oncology team is “Do I qualify?” if it’s something you’re interested for, and they’ll help walk you through that. If you haven’t had markers checked, for example, it might be a good time to ask about that, to see if this is something would be available, even if not available though, it does create a time to talk to your team about the markers, because those can inform regardless of trial or not maybe what to expect in coming years and likelihood of treatment.
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CLL Patient Expert Q&A: Dr. Danielle Brander
CLL Patient Expert Q&A: Dr. Danielle Brander from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
START HERE bridges the expert and patient voice, enabling chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) patients to feel comfortable asking questions of their healthcare team with precision. In this program, CLL expert Dr. Danielle Brander speaks to managing CLL side effects, emerging novel CLL therapies and treatment options for CLL progression.
Dr. Danielle Brander is an Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies & Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Learn more about Dr. Danielle Brander.
Download Resource Guide | Descargar Guía en Español
Related Programs:
Are There Signs of Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia Progression? |
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Transcript:
Lisa Hatfield:
Welcome to this START HERE, Patient Empowerment Network program. This program bridges the CLL expert and patient voices, enabling patients and care partners to feel comfortable asking questions of their healthcare team. Joining me is Dr. Danielle Brander, a CLL specialist serving as assistant professor in the Division of Hematologic Malignancies and Cellular Therapy at Duke University Medical Center. Dr. Brander directs the chronic lymphocytic leukemia or CLL and lymphoma program and serves as primary investigator for CLL focus clinical trials. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Brander.
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Thanks for having me, Lisa.
Lisa Hatfield:
The world can be complicated, but understanding your chronic lymphocytic leukemia diagnosis and treatment options doesn’t have to be. The goal of START HERE is to create actionable pathways for getting the most out of CLL treatment and survivorship. Before we get started, please remember to download the program resource guide via the QR code. There is great information there that will be useful during this program and after. So let’s get started. Dr. Brander, I’d like to talk about what’s on the CLL treatment radar. There’s a lot going on in terms of emerging treatment options, clinical trial data, and other learnings from the CLL community. Before we jump into a detailed discussion, can you provide an explanation of what CLL is?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Absolutely. So CLL, or chronic lymphocytic leukemia, we generally think of as blood cancer. But often as you hear the ending of that, the name leukemia, we also think of it as a lymphoma, meaning patients can have the spectrum of an elevated white count like you might think of in terms of a leukemia. They can also, like a lymphoma though, have enlarged lymph nodes or spleen. And often patients are diagnosed incidentally and that just means that they’re…in seeing their physician or their medical team for other reasons. And they might have had a blood test, and their white counts elevated.
Or they might notice they have a tiny enlarged lymph node or found on screening for other cancers, for example. And so the takeaway there is that many patients don’t necessarily have symptoms and certainly often many patients don’t have reasons to need to start treatment at the time they’re diagnosed. So in terms of what it is today, I think more and more patients are being diagnosed both because it is something that comes about as patients get older, but also because it’s found during routine other visits. And so more and more patients I think are found incidentally that way.
Lisa Hatfield:
Okay, thank you. So just a follow-up question to that, if a patient goes into their primary care provider and finds something unusual that might indicate CLL, will they be referred to a hematologist right away at that point? Usually?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
So that is a great question. Often they are, for example, if they’re noted to have a high white count or, specifically a type of white cell called lymphocytes. However, there are many things that can cause that or cause a small lymph node. And so, some primary care appropriately, if those changes are small and they could be due to other things like an infection, for example, then their primary care might want to follow up first. And if things go away, it may not be related to a cancer at all.
But if it’s something that persists or it seems very out of range, or primary care, who, you know, are specialists and seeing kind of changes all the time, and may say this seems a little bit out of range, then even before something’s diagnosed, patients might be referred to a hematologist or an oncologist to help with that workup. But often because primary care is so astute in seeing these things, they may counsel patients to say, let’s send this test or this test to get things going while we’re speaking to a hematologist or oncologist.
Lisa Hatfield:
We have CLL patients and care partners who are newly diagnosed in active treatment, watch and wait, and also living well with their disease. Joining this program no matter where you are in your CLL journey, START HERE provides easy-to-understand, reliable, and digestible information to help you make informed decisions. So, Dr. Brander, we’re going to get into a more detailed discussion now of CLL. Can you talk a little bit about the novel pathways and targets that are currently under investigation in CLL, and what are the most important highlights from those for patients and their families and care partners?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Yes. So over the last decade or even the last five years, for patients diagnosed with CLL, there’s been a very encouraging and marked change in the available treatments that is, you know, not that many years ago we generally only had chemotherapy or chemotherapy combined with these antibody targeted treatments that we call immunotherapy sometimes.
But in the last 5 to 10 years we’ve seen quite a remarkable change in treatments that target, meaning often they go after pathways or ways that the CLL cells have learned to grow or have learned to not die the way that normal cells should, die after certain time points. The two main categories of treatments that are approved for CLL treatment, either for patients as a first treatment or patients that have had treatment before including prior chemo or other agents are called BTK inhibitors or BCL-2 inhibitors.
BTK is something inside the leukemia cells. It’s also in some of our other cells. But in the CLL cells particularly, they’re very sensitive in needing that protein. So in targeting that BTK inhibitors keep the cells from getting the normal signals that they need to stay alive, and so the lymph nodes that are big get smaller, a spleen that might be big get smaller, white count eventually comes back down, for example. And those BTK inhibitors have also already encouragingly changed over recent years.
So there was…you’ll hear people say first generation, these were the first inhibitors that came out, that was a drug called ibrutinib (Imbruvica), which is still around. And then there are second generation that are approved that have come out as first treatment or treatment for previously patients that receive treatment.
Those second-generation BTK inhibitors are called zanubrutinib (Brukinsa) and acalabrutinib (Calquence) that are approved. The main other approved category of these targeted treatments I mentioned is venetoclax based treatment. And that targets something different, that targets a set of proteins inside the cell that tell the cell to stay alive too long. And so you have this accumulation and venetoclax targets that pathway. And the last thing I’ll mention about the BTK inhibitors that’s emerging is now there are trials of what are called non-covalent BTK inhibitors.
So they work in a different way, they go after BTK and so that they can work. The non-covalent, even for patients where the first and second-generation, traditional covalent BTK inhibitors I mentioned stop working, those are not yet approved officially for CLL, though they’re approved in mantle cell lymphoma. That’s a drug called pirtobrutinib (Jaypirca), that’s a non-covalent BTK. And the reason that emerging set of treatment, as I mentioned, is important is because it can work for patients where the first or second-generation covalent BTK inhibitors stop working. The venetoclax (Venclexta), as I mentioned, works by a different mechanism. So patients, of course, where the BTK stopped working, in many cases venetoclax can be helpful as well.
Lisa Hatfield:
Great. Thank you so much. So I read a little bit, I did a little research on trials that you’re involved in, and there is a trial the EVOLVE CLL trial, and I wonder if you can talk about that a little bit because I think it is exciting for patients to hear that there might be an option for earlier intervention. And I’m not sure if you’re allowed to talk about any results yet, but if you can speak to results, that would be great to hear about those results too.
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Well, yes and no, thank you for bringing this up because this is very important. As you mentioned, it’s called the EVOLVE study. It’s led by a national cooperative group called SWOG, meaning there are lots of places that it’s available, not just larger centers, but smaller oncology centers as well. And this is to look at what’s called early intervention, meaning as we spoke about before, most patients with CLL don’t need treatment at the time that they’re diagnosed. The reasons for treatment are, we call those treatment indications are based on three main categories that I’ll just review. For some patients, it’s new or progressive symptoms like weight loss or, very symptomatic limiting life day-to-day activities like night sweats or fatigue, for example, that’s the first category of reasons some patients might need treatment is unmanageable side effects.
The second main category is if the lymph nodes get very large or impacting on organ function, or the same for the spleen, it’s getting very large to a certain size, or it’s affecting your ability to eat regular meals or losing weight. And then the last category of treatment indications that we generally wait to start treatment for are if it’s affecting the normal blood count.
So there’s not one magic white count where patients need to start treatment, but almost like weeds in a garden, if those CLL cells are crowding out the red blood cells, so the hemoglobin’s falling or it’s crowding out the platelets, so the platelets are crowding and can’t grow and reach a certain threshold, then we recommend treatment. Of course, there are scattered other reasons, but those are the main three categories. And the reason of waiting to start until those are met is because historically trials have been done to look at waiting for those indications versus treating around the time of diagnosis.
Those trials so far have included chemotherapy by itself or chemotherapy in combination. And most recently there was a trial looking at first-generation ibrutinib that was given continuously. And so far there’s been no survival. So no life expectancy benefit to early treatment versus waiting for those indications. And the other reason generally not treating all patients is because some patients never require treatment, about a quarter of patients. So if we offer treatment to everybody, at the time of diagnosis, there are patients that would get treatment that would be exposed to side effects and never needed. But what the EVOLVE study is uniquely looking at is randomizing. And randomizing means some patients will get treatment and some patients will wait until those traditional reasons to need treatment. But for those randomized to receive therapy, it’s that venetoclax based treatment combined with this antibody called obinutuzumab (Gazyva).
And the way that treatment is given for patients, is the same way it’s given for patients who outside of the trial need treatment, meaning they get the antibody infusion, then they get the venetoclax pill, but it’s for a fixed duration, meaning a total of one year of treatment. The trial is also only for patients with higher-risk CLL. So as I mentioned, some patients never need treatment, some patients do, some patients need it quicker. So rather than looking at this trial and saying all patients, including those with CLL, that’s likely to be slower-growing. The EVOLVE trial is only for patients who are more likely to need treatment in the next couple of years. And the way that’s determined is a score called the CLL-IPI score, and CLL-IPI tries to identify patients more likely to need treatment in the next couple of years by a couple of key factors.
Stage at the time of diagnosis, it looks at age, and it looks at key factors of the leukemia itself, including something called deletion 17P or TP53, because that marker in the cells is a high risk of eventually needing treatment. So to answer your question, what EVOLVE is looking at is taking higher-risk patients, so patients rather than all patients more likely to need treatment anyway, and around the time of diagnosis, randomizing to either be treated or to follow the traditional, sometimes called watch and wait or dynamic monitoring until they reach traditional markers. And ultimately, and it’ll likely take many years to look at, ultimately the question is looking at if that helps prolong patient survival by having higher-risk patients receive that fixed-duration treatment earlier in time. We don’t yet have any results or any results to share, because the study is still enrolling.
But again, I think it’s something for patients to be aware of, because it does look at the higher risk patients. But around a year, it has to be within a year of diagnosis. So patients who are newly diagnosed, the question to ask your oncology team is “Do I qualify?” if it’s something you’re interested for, and they’ll help walk you through that. If you haven’t had markers checked, for example, it might be a good time to ask about that, to see if this is something would be available, even if not available though, it does create a time to talk to your team about the markers, because those can inform regardless of trial or not maybe what to expect in coming years and likelihood of treatment.
Lisa Hatfield:
Great, thank you for that. So as a cancer patient, one of the biggest questions I had when I was diagnosed, you hear the word “cancer” or in this case “CLL leukemia.”Two questions. One of them, is there a cure for CLL? And if not, are any of the…are there any trials looking at a cure for CLL?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Yes. Excellent. An understandable question. Traditionally, we say that CLL or others slower-growing, or sometimes you’ll hear the term indolent lymphomas, do tend to be slower-growing. Some patients don’t need treatment. But the flip side of that is we generally think of them as not curable, that they’re a chronic condition and that treatment, the goal of treatment is to knock it down and relieve whatever symptoms or indications or reasons you’re starting treatment are.
But at some level, we historically think of CLL as either eventually coming back or sticking around, so to speak. However, I think most oncologists, most those in the field, feel that some of the treatments that are around or in combination, that we’re going to have some patients that have maybe what a term might be functional cure or individual, cure-like condition.
Meaning if our newer treatments for some patients can knock down the CLL so much that it either doesn’t come back or take so long to even show itself again, in a way that serves as what the purpose of cure, really is, which is to get it down to levels that it’s not causing problems or not coming back, for the lifetime of the patient. Bone marrow transplant is the only therapy historically that has been cured, has offered a cure for some patients. The downside and the reason that most patients aren’t referred to for bone marrow transplant is the risk side of it. Meaning, unfortunately, a bone marrow or stem cell transplant has such a high risk of directly causing side effects.
That could be life-limiting or chronic side effects from the transplant itself versus the agents available now that we aren’t using or referring to bone marrow transplant nearly as much, but I think it’s really encouraging what we’re seeing in responses. So we talked already about those main categories of BTK inhibitors or venetoclax, I didn’t yet talk about, but there are many trials that have looked at those in combination, or CAR T, for example, or bispecific antibodies that are knocking down the CLL to such low levels. But the hope is that serves as a way of functional cure. But it’s going to take time to see if that’s the case. But we’re all very encouraged and really believe that that’s on the horizon.
Lisa Hatfield:
Great. Thank you so much. And even a functional cure sounds really hopeful, so I’m happy to hear that term. Thank you. And I want to be cognizant of your time and the time of everybody watching. So we are going to move into some of the questions that we’ve received from you watching this, patients. Remember, as patients, we should always feel empowered to ask our healthcare providers any and all questions we might have about our treatment and prognosis. Please remember, however, this program is not a substitute for medical care and always consult with your own medical team. So, Dr. Brander, let’s start here. How do you explain, you kind of covered this a little bit, CLL treatment options and prognosis to your newly diagnosed patients? And I think that the prognosis piece is really important, especially if they do start treatment.
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Sure, absolutely. So, what are the things we’re looking for in terms of needing treatment? Because some of those, especially the symptoms we’re noting a lymph node or spleen, for example, or symptoms of anemia, which is low red cells or bleeding from low platelets, it’s helpful for patients to understand what we’re looking for, but, of course, in the time between visits those are the things we want to help patients with if they notice.
And so we encourage them all the time to call our triage or send us, you know, most electronic medical records now, have ways to send your team a message. And we want to know about that from patients in between visits. In terms of prognosis, as I mentioned before, there are other CLL-specific labs usually on the blood, meaning a regular blood draw.
Most patients don’t need another lymph node biopsy or a bone marrow biopsy, though that happens in some cases. And two of those or some of those key markers I mentioned before, but they test in the leukemia, there’s one test called the FISH, F-I-S-H, it’s not specific to CLL, we use it in other cancers. But it’s to look for specific changes in the leukemia genomics, meaning the DNA, the genetic material of the leukemia, not genetics you’re born with, but the cancer itself.
And there are specific patterns and that can be helpful as I sit down with patients to say this isn’t 100 percent, but this is kind of what to expect and likelihood of needing treatment over the next couple of years. There’s another test called IGHV, another mutation test TP53 kind of beyond this to go over right now, but as you mentioned, I think it’s important to meet with your medical team and say, ‘How does this pertain to me specifically?”
In terms of prognosis, I think there’s two parts to that of understanding what to expect. There’s likelihood of needing treatment, there’s likelihood of time to treatment, and those kind of markers and staging system help in a good way. Right now, our historical expectations, meaning 5 or 10 years ago, we could often also sit with patients and say, “This is the prognosis in terms of survival.” Expected life expectancy on average, but in a good way, most of our systems nowadays with the newer treatments likely vastly underestimate patient survival, meaning those systems were designed when we only had chemotherapy treatments.
Now, we know patients even with the highest risk markers, the faster progressions are living, you know, years and years beyond what was expected with chemotherapy. So I just caution especially materials around from just a couple of years ago that likely they don’t pertain, but they can be helpful in knowing what to expect.
Lisa Hatfield:
Great, thank you for that. Answering that question. We have a couple of questions about BTK inhibitors, and you already talked a little bit about the role of those and why they’re significant in treating CLL. But another patient’s asking about the, of course, a lot of patients wonder, what are the side effects? They hear chemo and like, “Oh, my gosh, the side effects are going to be off.” Can you talk about the side effects and even maybe some unusual side effects that you’ve heard of from patients when using the BTK inhibitors?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Sure, absolutely. And so again, really important, these are things that as we maybe anticipate patients are going to start treatment, this is a long discussion of deciding between treatment, for example, as first treatment. There’s no trial saying one path is necessarily better than the other. So we try to individualize choosing between BTK inhibitors or that venetoclax-based therapy I mentioned. Some of that though comes about and what expected side effects are expected side effects for the individual. I try for patients to hear it from myself, other members of the team, the nurse, our pharmacist, for example.
And so patients shouldn’t feel overwhelmed to keep asking about what to expect or new side effects. There are some side effects we talk about regardless of the treatment. So I’ll just point out, anytime you’re starting treatment, you’ll hear the team talk about risk for infection, monitoring for fevers, reaching out to us about those kinds of side effects, lower blood counts that can happen regardless, not specific to BTK though it can happen there as well.
There’s some specifically though with BTK inhibitors, we ask patients to watch out for. Some BTK inhibitors can cause some cardiovascular side effects, meaning watching out for funny beating of the heart or what we call palpitations, skipped beats. There can be arrhythmias, some patients can have with time elevation in their blood pressure, for example. And then risk for bleeding, meaning BTK inhibitors affect how the platelets stick together similar to what aspirin does.
So the platelet levels may be normal but patients might have easier bruising, just generally manageable. But if there’s any kind of bleeding, certainly the team should be aware. It’s also the reason though, if you’re on a BTK inhibitor and you have a planned surgery or procedure, let your team know, because we may recommend or a lot of times recommend holding the medication before and after certain surgeries or procedures.
Other side effects can be muscle or joint aches. Some patients have some gastrointestinal side effects like looser stools or sensitivities to certain food causing looser stools, for example. And then there are some that are specific to the individual BTK inhibitor. This is the one point I’ll mention that first-generation BTK inhibitor ibrutinib, part of the reason for the second-generation zanubrutinib and acalabrutinib is not necessarily of them working better but to have less of these side effects that I just mentioned.
Lisa Hatfield:
Great, thank you for that. So this patient is telling us that he’s trying to plan life while living with cancer. It’s a challenge. It’s hard to know where to start. Can some patients go off of ibrutinib? I don’t say…ibrutinib after five years and enter a watch-and-wait kind of program. And will they be monitored during that time too, if they ever do go off of the medication?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Yeah. So again, more excellent, excellent questions. So of those main categories of treatment, the BTK inhibitors are given continuously, meaning, at least so far, the standard way we recommend of those treatments is that they’re taken every day, either once or twice a day, depending on which BTK inhibitor, and they’re taken every day. Unless patients run into progression, meaning the CLL learns to grow through its resistance or patients run into side effects that despite maybe team’s recommendation of changing the dose or holding the medications, that it’s just the medication is just not tolerated.
In those cases, there are cases where we do recommend stopping the treatment because of side effects. And the key there is that patients if depending how long they’ve been on treatment or how their CLL is responding, might not need to go on to the next treatment right away.
So to answer this patient’s question, if they were to run into a side effect that wasn’t manageable, there are patients where we say, stop treatment and let’s just watch things, see if you need treatment, if your CLL has no other reason to jump into the next therapy. And there have been encouraging things that we’re learning and that I think are hopeful to this patient’s question, which is maybe in the future there are patients where we proactively can tell them to stop after a certain time because of what we’ve learned for patients so far. But at the current moment in time, we don’t tell patients to stop at a certain amount of time.
But there are trials that are looking at that after a certain number of years. And there are also trials that have followed patients who have stopped therapy and some of those patients, as I mentioned, who are told to stop treatment due to other side effects or other reasons, may go a long time, a couple of years before they need to start therapy.
Lisa Hatfield:
Okay, great. Thank you. I’m going to add one little question there too, if you don’t mind. So we’ve talked about trials a little bit, and I know that patients can go to clinicaltrials.gov, but what if a patient lives in an area that doesn’t have a major academic center or maybe trials aren’t being done very much in their area? Do you have a recommendation for patients? Should they just ask their doctor about trials if say, for example, they want to go on one of these trials? What recommendations do you have for those patients?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Yes, absolutely. Starting with your healthcare team is very helpful to navigate to the right site. You mentioned the SWOG trial, which is online at a lot of the community and academic sites. So I would say also don’t or I encourage patients that just if they’re at a smaller site, it doesn’t mean there aren’t trials available. And then without going into all the individual, I guess societies and advocacy networks I really think that that’s been a tremendous benefit for patients is that there are societies through, you know, having leukemia or lymphoma, for example, that list or want to help patients connect them to what available trials there are.
Because while we think of trials as maybe the treatment, the reality is that a lot of trials are looking at other things too, patient’s physical function, patient’s other aspects of life besides the drug itself. So yes, I think that’s a great question for patients to be thinking about.
Lisa Hatfield:
Great, thank you. And you’re right, talking about access to trials is a whole other issue that will probably take up an entire program. But there are the advocacy networks out there, even Patient Empowerment Network. We can maybe help with that a little bit too. So we have another patient who is concerned about chances of relapse and is asking if there are any lifestyle changes through diet and supplements or anything that you can speak to that may enhance their response or their duration response to the treatment?
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Yeah. So a very very great question to bring about. And this is the one area, understandably where many of us feel frustrated because we can’t tell patients specifically that this trial has been done and says this specific diet is helpful or this specific lifestyle change is helpful to make the treatment work for longer. I think some of that is because some of the general advice we give meaning maintaining daily activity or a well-balanced diet sound non-specific or simple, but I think do help in patients staying in an overall general health wellness so that they can benefit from the treatment and potentially have less side effects from the therapy.
But getting back to the question we just talked about, I think certainly trials or studies really need to be continuing to look at this, because I think there likely are things that we can be more specific to patients about. There are studies looking at physical fitness and exercise regimens not necessarily specific to CLL, although there are studies being done in that space, but to other cancers showing that physical activity and exercise can help even for patients not on treatment maintain control of their cancer. So general daily activity and exercise are important in studies that look at how do you tailor that to an individual I think are important too?
Lisa Hatfield:
All right. So probably time for this last question from a patient. “As a CLL expert, how do you help empower your patients so they can get the most out of their CLL treatment and survivorship? How do you work with them as a team to make sure, I guess they’re having the best outcome they can?”
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Absolutely. So it starts at the start. I guess so for conversations, meaning for those that don’t need treatment right away building the relationship, understanding how I can help patients and their caregivers help, for example, they like to learn how much they want to know, what resources can I connect them with. And then I think it’s important for them to have other team members that they can go to and talk to and hear it from, because sometimes the same information we can just share in different ways or approach differently. The nurse on our team or our pharmacist or I work with a wonderful group of nurse practitioners and physician assistants as well. And so from the beginning, I want patients to feel free to ask the questions that come to mind.
It’s amazing, of course, during the course of the visit when you’re going over your labs and that, that sometimes it’s easy to forget the questions you came in with. So, of course, anytime you can write them down before coming in, write them down and then maybe prioritize because all of us…I think it’s hard to remember everything. So prioritizing the questions we want to make sure we get to and go over as well as know that these same questions are going to mean different things to you the longer you’re living with your CLL. And so it’s okay to ask the same questions. Again, there’s never a question that any of us mind going over several times. And then just know how the team can help you. You know, are you coming? How much information do you want?
How much input do you want us to put? And what is your importance and priority? At the end of the day, I want all patients to know no one knows what it is, like living with it. No one knows what’s most important as much as you and your family or your caregiver team does. And I learn just as much from patients and the way they share their experiences. There’s a lot we can look at a group of patients with CLL and say how different each patient’s experiences, who needs treatment or not, who has side effects or not. But no one’s going to know as much as as you do living with it. And it’s our hope to help you wherever you are in your journey or whatever ways that we can help you.
Lisa Hatfield:
Well, and I appreciate your comment that we can ask the same questions over and over if we need to. I know my oncologist when I first met with him, I felt guilty taking in more than two questions, but right before he moved, I took in a long, I rolled up a piece of paper, a long scroll, and I said, I have some questions for you, but I knew they were all repeat questions. But it does give us a little bit of peace of mind just hearing it again from somebody, especially in those initial phases of treatment, just hearing it, even if you have to hear it again and again. So thank you for mentioning that. It makes us feel a little more confident in taking those concerns to our providers, even if they’re repeated concerns.
Lisa Hatfield:
Dr. Brander, thank you so much for being part of this Patient Empowerment Network START HERE Program. It’s these conversations that help patients truly empower themselves along their treatment journey. And on behalf of patients like myself and those watching, thank you very much for joining us.
Dr. Danielle Brander:
Thank you for having me.
Lisa Hatfield:
I’m Lisa Hatfield, thank you for joining this Patient Empowerment Network program.
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What Promising AML Treatments Are Available for Newly Diagnosed Patients?
What Promising AML Treatments Are Available for Newly Diagnosed Patients? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What do newly diagnosed acute myeloid leukemia (AML) patients have for promising treatment options? Dr. Naval Daver from the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center discusses progress in available treatments. Learn about therapies determined by key factors.
[ACT]IVATION TIP from Dr. Daver: “It’s very important to really consider all the available treatment options and if needed to seek consultation with an expert or academic center to get the most up-to-date treatments available for AML.“
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Transcript:
Art:
Dr. Daver, for newly diagnosed AML patients, what are the latest and most promising available therapies?
Dr. Daver:
For newly diagnosed AML at this time, the most promising agents include targeted therapies and BCL-2 inhibitor treatments, these are non-chemotherapeutic drugs, and we’ve seen great progress in the application of these as well as recent FDA approvals.
So one of these is an agent called venetoclax (Venclexta), which is a BCL-2 inhibitor and venetoclax in combination with hypomethylating agents such as azacitidine (Onureg or Vidaza) has shown a response to close to 75 percent.
And the nice thing is that this regimen can be given and patients who are older than 70, 75 years of age, and even those who are having comorbidities are not fit for traditional intensive chemotherapy with similar response rates, so this has been approved in the last couple of years for the frontline treatment of AML, and we’ve been using this combination of venetoclax and azacitidine quite frequently with high efficacy in this patient population, the other new agents that have shown breakthroughs in AML are the targeted therapies, these include FLT3 inhibitors that target the FLT3 mutation and these have shown good activity, but the single agents with gilteritinib (Xospata) being approved in the relapsed refractory setting as a single agent where gilteritinib showed a response rate of about 50 percent as a single oral targeted therapy in relapsed FLT3-mutated AML, which is actually better than the response rate with high-dose combination more where the response rate is only about 25 to 30 percent.
So, gilteritinib is now approved, and it’s now moving and being evaluated in frontline setting other FLT3 inhibitors like lestaurtinib (CEP-701), actually just recently completed frontline studies showing improved outcome when lestaurtinib added to intensive chemo versus just intensive chemo in FLT3 in AML. And we hope and think there’s a good chance lestaurtinib will be approved in the near future.
And also IDH inhibitors have been approved both in the relapsed setting, frontline setting, and now we even have a third group of targeted therapy is called the menin inhibitors, they target MLL rearrangement and NPM1 mutations, which are seen in about 15 percent to 20 percent of the AML, so there’s been a lot of progress.
All of this in the last seven years, six, seven years with multiple targeted therapies, with multiple inhibitor-based treatments, showing progress in AML and then also recently, the concept of maintenance therapy, this is something we used for the last couple of decades in a acute lymphoblastic leukemia and multiple myeloma and in lymphoma.
But we had not had clear data in AML, but the recent study using oral formulation of a azacitidine in CC486 has shown the maintenance in patients who complete an induction consolidation and could not go to allogeneic stem cell transplant for one reason or the other was important and improve both overall survival and relapse-free survival, and so this is the first time now we have an FDA-approved and standard use of maintenance therapy after the traditional induction consolidation, so even changing the general paradigm of AML therapy.
So a lot has changed in the last seven to eight years in the treatment of acute myeloid leukemia, and this is very exciting.
And the activation tip related, this question is that there are multiple new targeted and low intensity therapeutic options available for patients with acute myeloid leukemia, and in our institution, in my opinion, even older patients are eligible for some form of therapy or the other…very few patients, if any, today, are being sent to hospitals or palliative care without treatment.
So it’s very important to really consider all the available treatment options and if needed to seek consultation with an expert or academic center to get the most up-to-date treatments available for AML.
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Developing CLL Research and Treatment News
Developing CLL Research and Treatment News from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
CLL expert Dr. Michael Choi provides his perspective on the goals of current CLL clinical trials, discusses approved inhibitor treatments, and shares credible resources to keep up with the latest news in research.
Dr. Michael Choi is a hematologist and medical oncologist at UC San Diego Moores Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Choi.
See More from CLL Clinical Trials 201
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Transcript:
Laura Beth:
Dr. Choi, are there recent advances in CLL treatment and research that you are excited about?
Dr. Choi:
There’s certainly a lot to be excited about as far as new treatments or new understanding of our treatments. What I see as kind of two main aims of trials right now for our patients with CLL, one is to figure out the optimal way to treat patients, especially in the first line of treatment.
For the past few years, we’ve had two very clear options, two very clear standards, a BTK inhibitor or the combination of venetoclax and a CD20 antibody. And so, right now, there are a couple of trials both in the states and internationally that are for the first time really comparing those head-to-head. At UCSD, we’re eagerly hoping to join one of those trials as well, and so this will help us and help our patients kind of really know which of those options make the most sense for maybe different subgroups of patients.
I guess the other main emphasis is to have new therapies available to patients in case these existing standards stop working. And fortunately, this is not a common occurrence. Resistance to BTK inhibitors and Bcl-2 inhibitors is not common, fortunately. But we have to be ready with something if that does occur for our patients.
Certainly, there’s a lot of enthusiasm for the next generation of BTK inhibitors, cellular therapies like CAR-T therapy, and other classes of medications. So, while I hope most of my patients never need those drugs or never need those trials, I think it’s important that we have those available.
Laura Beth:
How can patients keep up to date on developing CLL research?
Dr. Choi:
Oh, that’s a great question. I guess I sometimes ask that same question of myself. How can I stay updated on all the developments and discoveries. Yeah, I guess, yeah, certainly talking to your doctors about what other options there may be. Sometimes, that’s maybe the simplest question to ask.
Yeah, I wish online things were a little bit more straightforward. When I go onto clinicaltrials.gov, I pull up hundreds of different CLL trials, some that might not be relevant for all of my patients. I think The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society and other societies and your group as well have done a great job communicating what some of the most promising areas of research are.
How Are CLL Patients Monitored After a Clinical Trial Concludes?
How Are CLL Patients Monitored After a Clinical Trial Concludes? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What happens after a clinical trial is complete? CLL expert Dr. Michael Choi explains how participants are monitored during clinical trial follow-up.
Dr. Michael Choi is a hematologist and medical oncologist at UC San Diego Moores Cancer Center. More information on Dr. Choi here.
See More from CLL Clinical Trials 201
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Transcript:
Laura Beth:
Is there follow-up that’s done after a trial concludes?
Dr. Choi:
Oh, good question. Yeah.
Yeah, trials are kind of – let me say what – yeah, when a patient goes through a trial, there can be a sense that the trial concludes, perhaps when the treatment is done or at a certain point when a response assessment is made, but oftentimes, it’s important to also continue to monitor patients after those milestones.
Certainly, for some of our drugs, the treatment continues long-term, so even after some statement has been made about a response rate, many patients remain on treatment, and it’s certainly important to see if there are any long-term side effects or any other developments after the end of that initial period.
Other treatments, the trial – the treatment may end. An example might be these trials that combine BTK inhibitors and Bcl-2 inhibitors that are typically for a year-and-a-half or so.
And certainly, for those trials, it’s definitely critical for patients to be followed as part of the trial so that we can get a good sense of how long those remissions are lasting. Also, of course, to see if there are any delayed or long-term toxicities. So, yeah, so oftentimes, being a part of a trial means being followed, being monitored for some time afterwards.
Three Main Treatment Approaches for CLL Patients
What are the main treatment approaches for Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia (CLL) patients? In the “CLL Treatment Approaches: What Are the Types?” program, expert Dr. Catherine Coombs from The UNC Lineberger Comprehensive Cancer Center outlines CLL treatment options and patients they may work best for.
1. BTK Inhibitor Targeted Therapy
The CLL treatment approach of BTK inhibitors work against the function of Bruton’s tyrosine kinase protein. Bruton’s tyrosine kinase – or BTK – is involved in signaling processes in both cancerous and healthy B cells, and BTK inhibitors exert against B cells to prevent cancer growth. Acalabrutinib (Calquence) and ibrutinib (Imbruvica) are two BTK inhibitors currently approved for CLL treatment. In general, patients are kept on BTK inhibitors if they are working well and with minimal side effects, as BTK inhibitors generally work extremely well against controlling CLL over time. Due to their success over time, BTK inhibitors are an excellent treatment option for more elderly patients.
2. BCL-2 Inhibitor Targeted Therapy
Another CLL treatment approach is BCL-2 inhibitors, which work against the pathway that lies within CLL cells. The process of CLL cell death and BCL-2 inhibitors create is called apoptosis. The drug that falls under the category of BCL-2 inhibitors for CLL treatment is venetoclax (Venclexta). An anti-CD20 drug – such as obinutuzumab (Gazyva) – is usually combined with venetoclax to work as a team to kill CLL cells. BCL-2 inhibitors are designed as a shorter term therapy to get patients to remission status, and then they can go off the treatment for regular monitoring after they achieve remission.
3. Cytotoxic Chemotherapy
Though targeted therapies comprise the majority of CLL treatment for patients, cytotoxic chemotherapy is used for some patients. Although cytotoxic chemotherapy is effective, this therapy also has the drawbacks of being less effective than targeted therapies and can cause long-term toxicities in patients.
CLL patients have different treatment options depending on age, lifestyle, and other treatment factors. If you want to learn more about CLL care and treatments, check out our CLL information.
What Are the Current CLL Treatment Options?
What Are the Current CLL Treatment Options? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
When is it time to treat CLL, and what are the current options? Dr. Jean Koff, from the Winship Cancer Institute of Emory University, reviews available CLL treatment approaches and discusses patient-specific factors that she considers when choosing therapy.
Dr. Jean Koff is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Hematology and Oncology at Winship Cancer Institute of Emory University. Learn more about Dr. Koff, here.
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Transcript:
Katherine Banwell:
Many patients are overwhelmed by the different types and classes of treatment. When is it time to treat CLL, and what are the options?
Dr. Jean Koff:
So, I boil down the criteria to when you need to treat your CLL to two main categories. One category is that the disease is progressing quickly, and the other category is the disease is causing problems of some kind, or getting ready to cause problems of some kind. Those are some of the broad categories that we think about when it’s time to start treatment for CLL. Now, this – the groups that research CLL have put out various criteria that help guide physicians about when it’s time to start treatment, and some of those more specific criteria include items like symptoms. So, symptoms are a very important part of that decision-making process.
And the same symptoms that we mentioned, the B symptoms, fevers, chills, night sweats, weight loss that’s unintentional, or lymph nodes that you can feel, those would potentially be reasons that your doctor would want to start you on CLL therapy. But the CLL can cause issues even in a patient who’s not necessarily having symptoms. So, one of the most common ways that CLL can cause issues is the CLL cells can cause your other blood cells, the normal blood cells, to be low in number. There are several ways the CLL cells can do this. One of the most common ways is that the CLL cells, which are often circulating through your bloodstream, can also collect or overrun your bone marrow.
And if you think about it, the bone marrow is the factory that makes all of your blood cells. So, when there are too many CLL cells in the bone marrow, they can crowd out the normal blood cells, like red blood cells or platelets. So, when red blood cells or platelets get low beneath certain thresholds, that’s a reason to start CLL therapy.
Katherine Banwell:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jean Koff:
So, there are a couple other criteria that we think about. CLL cells can collect in other areas, including the spleen. So – and if you remember, the spleen is a lymphoid organ that sits on the left side of your body that is right below the stomach. And so, if CLL cells collect in the spleen, they can cause it to be too big, it can press on the stomach, it can make it so you feel full, even if you haven’t eaten a full meal, that’s something we call early satiety. It can be uncomfortable, causing some abdominal pain. And if the spleen gets really, really big, it can cause it to not be able to do its normal job, which is to filter out the normal blood cells like it does every day. And so, that would be a reason to start therapy as well. And then the last – the last category I would think about is in CLL we have lots of – of CLL cells that are circulating in the blood that we can check with a routine blood count. And the absolute number of CLL cells is not as important as how fast that number is growing. So, your physician will track how fast that number of CLL cells is doubling.
And if you meet criteria for what we call rapid doubling time, which is usually thought of as less than 12 months but certainly less than six months. So, if your count goes from 30,000 to 60,000 in under six months, then it may be time for you to start thinking about therapy.
Katherine Banwell:
Right. So, Dr. Koff, would you briefly review the treatment classes?
Dr. Jean Koff:
So, for first-line treatment, we have two main treatment classes that we think about at this time. The first is – is called BTK inhibitors, which is Bruton tyrosine kinase inhibitors. And these are oral medications, so medications that you take by mouth, and the most well-studied of these is called ibrutinib (Imbruvica), we typically prescribe ibrutinib by itself. There are other BTK inhibitors we are also now using in this space, one of them is called acalabrutinib (Calquence), and that is often given with an IV monoclonal antibody called obinutuzumab (Gazyva).
The other main class of drugs that we consider for first-line treatment of CLL is the BCL-2 inhibitors. Right now there’s only one BCL-2 inhibitor that’s approved for CLL and front-line and it’s called venetoclax (Venclexta). Usually, this drug is also given in the front-line with an anti-CD20 monoclonal antibody. So, the venetoclax itself is a pill you take. And the monoclonal antibody is an – either an IV or a subcutaneous injection.
Katherine Banwell:
Where do clinical trials fit into CLL treatment?
Dr. Jean Koff:
So, clinical trials are part of the reason, a big part of the reason that we’ve been able to make so much progress in how we treat CLL over the past few years. Clinical trials are how we figure out what treatments work for CLL, how patients feel on them, what sort of adverse events or side effects they have on individual treatments, and which treatments do better for keeping CLL symptoms under control, keeping the disease under control, and allowing patients to live longer and have a higher quality of life with their disease.
Katherine Banwell:
Are there any other options available for CLL patients?
Dr. Jean Koff:
So, there are other options. A clinical trial, if that is available to you as a patient is nearly always a good thing to consider if you have CLL. Because the vast majority of patients will not be cured by CL – by their treatment for CLL. Meaning that the – even though the treatments we have usually work for a very long time in most patients, ultimately the CLL will at some point, perhaps years down the road, progress and need another therapy. For that reason, we know we can do better. And we are hoping that the next clinical trial is going to lead to the discovery of a new agent or a new combination – new combinations of agents that will allow patients to live longer with a better quality of life with CLL.
Katherine Banwell:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jean Koff:
So, that’s always a good option to consider.
Emerging Waldenström Macroglobulinemia Treatment Approaches
Emerging Waldenström Macroglobulinemia Treatment Approaches from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What Waldenström macroglobulinemia (WM) therapies are showing promise? Dr. Jorge Castillo of the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute discusses emerging research and advances in WM treatment.
Dr. Jorge Castillo is Clinical Director at the Bing Center for Waldenström Macroglobulinemia Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Assistant Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Learn more about Dr. Castillo, here.
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Transcript:
Katherine:
Dr. Castillo, are there emerging approaches for treating Waldenstrom’s?
Dr. Castillo:
Always. And that’s the beauty – that’s the second part of when we talked about clinical trials, right, we talked about clinical trials? Science continues, and we work very closely with an organization called the International Waldenstrom’s Foundation, and they support research all over the world for Waldenstrom’s.
So, their message is since the sun comes up until the sun comes down, there is someone, somewhere in the world working on Waldenstrom’s, and that’s true.
So, there’s a lot of science in the background, and that science helps us understand how the Waldenstrom’s cells behave, and therefore, we can then start targeting some things. That’s how BTK inhibitors came out. That’s how proteasome inhibitors came out. That’s how BCL-2 inhibitors came out. All these are the result of science, applied into the treatments. So, at my institution and many other institutions in the country and outside of the country, there are newer treatments being tried all the time.
We have now – we are looking into combining BTK inhibitors with other agents. Germany is doing a number of different studies. Canada is doing a number of different studies. We are doing some studies in the United States as well, combining chemotherapy and PIs with the BTK inhibitors. We’re doing a study in my institution combining BTK inhibitors with BCL-2 inhibitors. So, and the idea is to try to create a more powerful agent or regimen and hopefully maybe not give patients indefinite treatments, more like fixed duration treatments.
So, I think that’s where it’s coming. It’s coming maybe double, triple combinations, fixed duration treatments. That’s what is coming in terms of that aspect of the research. And then, we do have newer compounds coming out.
We do have now some concepts in what we call immunotherapy, right? We think about antibodies.
We think about bispecific T-cell engagers. CAR-T cells, so all that is actually up and coming in Waldenstrom’s. There are actual clinical trials being done today evaluating all those different treatments for patients with Waldenstrom’s.
So, I think the future is really bright. I’m really optimistic, to be honest with you about the treatment of patients with Waldenstrom’s. Obviously, what we need, what we want, is cure of the disease. And again, we can think about cure in two different ways. We can think about the classic definition of cure in which we treat patients, the disease goes away, you stop treatments, and the disease never comes back, right? That’s one way of looking at cure.
The other way of looking at cure is you treat the disease, the disease is in a remission, you continue treating the patient, and then the patient basically dies of other reasons, right? That is a functional cure. So, I think we’re closer to the latter, much more than the former, but the efforts to continue developing new treatments, it’s not stopping anytime soon.
Katherine:
No, because we’re always constantly moving forward, having to find new treatments, definitely.
