Tag Archive for: BCMA

Current and Emerging CAR T-Cell Therapies for Myeloma

What are the current and emerging CAR T-cell therapies for myeloma? Nurse practitioner Donna Catamero discusses approved CAR T-cell therapies for multiple myeloma, who they’re appropriate for, ongoing research to expand their use, and treatment options if the disease returns after CAR T-cell therapy.

Donna Catamero is a Nurse Practitioner and associate director of the Multiple Myeloma Clinical Research Program at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Learn more about Donna Catamero.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy? Why Managing Overall Health Is Essential

Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy? Why Managing Overall Health Is Essential

Being Empowered | The Importance of Understanding Myeloma

CAR T-Cell Therapy Support | Questions to Ask About the Process

CAR T-Cell Therapy Support | Questions to Ask About the Process

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Donna, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Would you please introduce yourself and tell us about your role at Mount Sinai? 

Donna Catamero:

Sure. I’m Donna Catamero, I’m a nurse practitioner, and I’m the associate director of the Multiple Myeloma Clinical Research Program at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. 

Katherine Banwell:

Would you tell us about the currently approved CAR T-cell therapies and which myeloma patients they may be right for?  

Donna Catamero:

So, currently, we have two products available for patients. The first is idecabtagene vicleucel (Abecma), and it’s approved for patients with relapsed/refractory disease who have received two prior lines of therapy, and this includes exposure to an immunomodulatory agent, so, your lenalidomide (Revlimid), your pomalidomide (Pomalyst), a proteasome inhibitor, and that includes Velcade/Kyprolis, and an anti-CD38 monoclonal antibody, so this is your daratumumab (Darzalex) or isatuximab-irfc (Sarclisa). 

The second product we have to offer patients is ciltacabtagene autoleucel (Carvykti), and this is approved for patients a little bit earlier on, so, also relapsed/refractory disease who have received at least one prior line of therapy, and it must have included proteasome inhibitor and an immunomodulatory agent, and they need to be refractory to Revlimid. So, what “refractory” means is they relapsed while taking the Revlimid.  

And both these therapies are important for patients, so if patients are inquiring about CAR T therapy, they should ask their providers what product is available for that. 

Katherine Banwell:

Let’s talk about research in CAR T-cell therapy. What new options are being studied, and how far along is the research? 

Donna Catamero:

So, we’re actually very excited. So, the two products, Abecma and Carvykti, we’re actually looking at them in newly diagnosed myeloma patients, and this is regardless of if patients are eligible for transplant or not, and we’re looking at comparing transplant versus CAR T therapies, so we’re hoping to move CAR T therapies for newly diagnosed – so, first-line therapy – so this is very exciting, and we’re also investigating new products with dual targets. 

So, right now, our two approved CAR Ts, they target BCMA, so now we’re looking at CAR Ts that are targeting BCMA and another target – so, GPRC5D or CD19 – so this means that the CAR T is grabbing onto more cells, so, in theory, it would have a higher cell kill.  

And then, we’re also investigating CAR Ts that we call off-the-shelf, so, autologous CAR Ts, so, donor CAR Ts, and this is actually exciting for patients who maybe can’t wait for manufacturing of their T cells, and now we can use donor T cells. So, these are earlier on studies, so we’re hoping within the next few years, more options will be available for patients.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. What happens if the myeloma comes back after T-cell therapy? What are the treatment options available beyond CAR T? 

Donna Catamero:

Earlier on, we were hoping that CAR T would be our cure, but patients are getting very long, durable remissions from their CAR T therapy. We see patients who are five, seven, eight years out from their CAR T therapy, so patients do have a long time in remission, but the myeloma can come back. 

And what do we do with these patients? We actually have been very successful managing patients post a CAR T relapse, so we are looking at bispecific antibodies, which were recently approved over the past several years, and we see patients who have had relapses from their CAR T go back into a remission with these bispecific therapies, and again have long, durable remissions. So, we can absolutely manage patients if their myeloma comes back after CAR T therapy. 

Understanding Myeloma Therapy Targets BCMA and GPRC5D

Understanding Myeloma Therapy Targets BCMA and GPRC5D from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are myeloma targets, and how do they impact the effectiveness of therapy? Dr. Krina Patel explains how treatments like bispecific antibodies and CAR T-cell therapy are using myeloma targets such as BCMA (B-cell maturation antigen) and GPRC5D (G protein-coupled receptor 5D) to kill myeloma cells. 

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma.

Related Resources:

Will CAR T-Cell Therapy Be Approved for Earlier Lines of Myeloma Treatment

Will CAR T-Cell Therapy Be Approved for Earlier Lines of Myeloma Treatment?

How Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Research Advancing Myeloma Care?

How Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Research Advancing Myeloma Care?

How Can Myeloma Patients Access CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials?

How Can Myeloma Patients Access CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials?

Transcript:

Katherine:

We know that the currently approved bispecific antibody therapies target BCMA and GPRC5D. What are these targets precisely and how do they impact the effectiveness of the treatment? 

Dr. Krina Patel:

No, it’s a great question.  

And, again, so BCMA we’ve had for a little bit longer.  

We’ve known about it for a little bit longer, B cell maturation antigen, which definitely we’ve used as much as we can. So, we’ve had CAR Ts for it. We’ve had bispecifics for it. We’ve had antibody drug conjugates that we’ve attached to it. 

So, it’s a really good target that is mostly just on myeloma cells and on very few other cells in the body, for the most part, which is why it makes such a great target. The side effects really should happen only specifically against the myeloma; so, less side effects in terms of toxicity. That’s not 100 percent the case.  

BCMA is in some other tissues, like maybe the nerves, and that’s why maybe we see this toxicity sometimes, potentially in the GI system. Some patients can have it in other places. If you have myeloma in, let’s say, areas like the kidney. If you have a plasmacytoma, it can go to the kidney, things like that.  

But again, for the most part, mostly on myeloma. And what’s really important about these targets is, once you get a treatment for it, what happens to that target. So, that’s a little bit different between these two targets. So, BCMA is a part of the proliferation of myeloma cells. So, it actually helps the myeloma cell survive. And so, the myeloma cells really want that BCMA on there. Now, for CAR T, for the most part, we don’t see people losing BCMA. We might see it go down in the myeloma cells that are left. For some patients, the expression can go down. But for the most part, we’ll see it come back up a few months later if the myeloma’s coming back.  

The way that resistance happens with BCMA is that, when people are on bispecifics, the other treatment, we can sometimes see the BCMA get mutated. And then, maybe the other therapies we have won’t go after it any more.  

So, again, it’s not common, but that’s sorta something we look at when we talk about sequencing therapy or which therapy should we use first. Then, GPRC5D’s a little different.  

So, again, mostly just on myeloma cells. But here, we do know it’s on something called epithelial cells, which is skin, nails, tongue. And that’s why some of the side effects that we see, especially with the bispecific that’s a standard of care already, talquetamab, is skin and nail changes. So, people can get sloughing of their hands and nails; that can get disrupted. And then, taste. People can actually have some significant taste loss, to the point that they can have weight loss from it.  

So, this is why that part is so important that if we have patients with these side effects, we need to hold the drug or decrease it; so, make sure we can turn those around. And then, the way GPRC5D is we think that it’s a little bit more likely that you can lose it once you get a treatment with GPRC5D that the myeloma can actually learn how to shed the antigen.  

So, again, this really becomes important when we talk about combination and sequencing of all these different therapies we have and what’s the best way to do it so that patients can have the best response and the longest response.

How Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Research Advancing Myeloma Care?

How Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Research Advancing Myeloma Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What progress is being made in furthering advancing CAR T-cell therapy for myeloma? Dr. Krina Patel discusses the manufacturing process for CAR T-cells, research updates for manufacturing CAR T-cells faster, and the benefits of bridging therapy for some patients. 

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma.

Related Resources:

How Can Myeloma Patients Access CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials?

How Can Myeloma Patients Access CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials?

Will CAR T-Cell Therapy Be Approved for Earlier Lines of Myeloma Treatment

Will CAR T-Cell Therapy Be Approved for Earlier Lines of Myeloma Treatment?

Advances in Managing CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects

Advances in Managing CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects

Transcript:

Katherine:

Are there other advances in CAR T-cell therapy that patients should know about?  

Dr. Krina Patel:

Yeah, so I think part of the issue right now is manufacturing and how long it takes for patients to get those cells. So, we use it to our advantage in the sense that earlier-line patients will have bridging therapy that we can give them while we’ve collected their cells and they’re being made; it takes are 4 to 6 weeks, or even eight weeks sometimes that we can give them a therapy that can knock their myeloma down before they get the CAR T.  

And again, this is really important that we have options available. So, in fifth-line we don’t have very many options available. So, a lot of my patients, we really are just struggling to keep the myeloma controlled, try to bring it down before they get their CAR T. We’re hoping that that CAR T comes in any day.  

When it goes earlier, I’m hopeful that now we’ll have options to actually bridge patients better because we’ll have more therapies they haven’t had. And the reason that bridging is so important is it really does decrease toxicity, some of the serious toxicity with see with CAR T; significantly decreases it.

And the efficacy. We see patients will do much better for longer if they have less myeloma going in than lot of myeloma going in. And so, again, I think because of that time, if we could get those cells earlier, that just makes it so much easier for all our patients to make sure that they’re able to get the cells. So, there’s quite a few different trials looking at fast CAR T production.  

And so, there’s the PH383, I think. I can’t remember the number exactly. But this is one of the studies that was happening at Dana-Farber, and Dr. Sperling has presented couple time. The cells are made within just 24, 48 hours. And then, they actually go in and as they’re killing the myeloma, they grow.  

So, they grow inside the body which is really, really, I think, a interesting way to develop CAR Ts for the future, make it more applicable and accessible. And then, there’s other companies in China. There’s the FasT CAR, which is a CD-19 plus BCMA, so two targets. But again, they can make their CAR Ts within a week.

And in the end, you have to still do quality checks for the FDA, which still take two weeks. So, it always will still be a few weeks, but still, the faster you can make those CAR’s, the more likely our patients are gonna be able to get it. And then, I think the combination studies. Again, there’s gonna be studies with different targets. So, there’s two CAR Ts, again, GPRC5D, that are going to be tested in the U.S.  

A phase two study. And then, also another phase one study. And then, the phase two study, that GPRC5D CAR T is going to have combination studies coming out very, very soon. Actually, it’s already open in some places, and more places that are opening soon.  

So, I think, yes, a lot’s going on again with new antigens and combinations. 

Will CAR T-Cell Therapy Be Approved for Earlier Lines of Myeloma Treatment?

Will CAR T-Cell Therapy Be Approved for Earlier Lines of Myeloma Treatment? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Is there an opportunity for myeloma patients to gain access to CAR T-cell therapy sooner? Dr. Krina Patel discusses the results of clinical studies for CAR T-cell therapy and the potential for patients receiving the treatment earlier in their myeloma journey.

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma.

Related Resources:

How Can Myeloma Patients Access CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials?

How Can Myeloma Patients Access CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials?

How Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Research Advancing Myeloma Care?

How Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Research Advancing Myeloma Care?

Advances in Managing CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects

Advances in Managing CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects

Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Patel, current CAR T-cell therapy is FDA approved for patients who have had several lines of treatment. 

But we know that there are a number of trials that are exploring this treatment in earlier lines. So, what is the progress on these trials? 

Dr. Krina Patel:

Yeah. So, I think we have two major ones that have already been done and we’ve heard the results from. So, CARTITUDE-4 was for cilta-cel in second to fourth-line; so, patients who have relapsed once, all the way up to three times.  

And then, KarMMa-3, which is ide-cel, which was one line later. So, that was third-line to fifth-lines; so, relapsed twice to four times. So, little bit different patient populations in the two trials. The trials were different in that patients had different therapies before too.  

But both were positive studies which was what was really exciting. So, in CARTITUDE-4 patients were randomized, meaning they got either the CAR T or they got a standard of care option. And the CAR T won by a lot. This was, we call, hazard ratios.  

But basically, the amount of different of patients surviving when they got CAR T without myeloma versus the standard of care was one of the biggest differences we’ve ever seen in a clinical trial for multiple myeloma. So, it’s – 

Katherine:

Wow. 

Dr. Krina Patel:

– something really pretty amazing. And then, KarMMa-3, that trial, same thing. There’s a huge difference in the patients who got CAR T versus the standard of care. The standard of care options were different in the two trials for the most part. So, again, different patient populations and different standard of care options, but the other big thing that the KarMMa-3 study did was they allowed for patients who are on the standard of care that, once they were relapsing, they could get the CAR T.  

And so, because we have this crossover the big controversial thing that came up was, “Well, patients aren’t necessarily living longer by getting CAR T earlier. As long as they get CAR T they do really well.” And so, that is why there was a big meeting with the FDA what we call the ODAC meeting.  

So, they had both companies present their trials to the FDA and to this advisory board that they had called ODAC, and thankfully it was positive. So, both studies were positive in terms of the advisory board saying that they agreed these should be moved up forward.  

So, now we’re just waiting and hoping the FDA approves them so that we can actually give it to patients. I think the biggest reason is access. So, we know that when patients are fifth-line, which is when it’s approved now, not everybody makes it to fifth-line. It’s really hard to get through all these therapies and then still be healthy enough to do this versus if it’s approved in second and third-line, that just means so many people can actually get these therapies and available to them.  

And the other big thing is the quality-of-life piece for CAR T. It’s been such a big difference when patients get a break from therapy for a year or two years or longer compared to being on continuous therapy. And so, both studies have had quality of life studies come out as well showing that difference between the standard of care versus the CAR T.  

Evolve Multiple Myeloma Resource Guide

Download Resource Guide

PEN-192_Evolve_ResourceGuideF

Download Resource Guide

See More from Evolve Myeloma

Advances in Managing CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects

Advances in Managing CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What progress is being made in treating the side effects of CAR T-cell therapy? Myeloma expert Dr. Krina Patel discusses the research and advances being made in understanding and managing the common issues associated with this treatment.

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma. 

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages?

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect?

What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Patel, what about managing the side effects of CAR T? Is that improving?  

Dr. Krina Patel:

It is. I think just the fact that we are now seeing less of the neurotoxicity that we were seeing in the initial patients that were getting CAR T, and the serious neurotoxicity like the Parkinsonianism or patients couldn’t walk or hold things because of the tremors they were having that were so significant.  

And then something kinda like Guillain-Barré where people are getting ascending paralysis. And so, again, those are very serious things that we don’t want any of our patients to get. And again, most of it was with cilta-cel and their CARTITUDE-1 study. There is a black-box warning with ide-cel too that that can happen.  

We just don’t see it at the same rate. And again, when patients got better bridging going into CAR T, that rate dropped from 6% to 0.5%. So, it really is a huge difference by just giving better bridging and having myeloma controlled better going in.  

We are seeing some other side effects that we didn’t necessarily see on the original clinical trials, like facial palsies. These are things where patients can talk very well anymore or their side of their face is drooping. And those are reversible thankfully, for the most part with steroids, things like that. So, we watch for that. There’s some other side effects.

Again, these are immune cells going into your body, so anything can happen. So, we definitely keep a close eye on all of our patients. But for the most part, especially things like infections and this neurotoxicity, we’ve learned that again the less myeloma going in, the better patients do and the faster they recover.  

So, for the most part, patients now are doing much, much better than when patients were originally on those trials where we didn’t know what was gonna happen. And I think the infection piece is such a big deal; that our patients definitely need supportive care.  

So, even though this is a one-and-done where you get your chemo, you get your CAR T’s and then you’re not on any myeloma therapy, you are on supportive therapies; so, things like IVIG for your immune system, things to protect you against something called PJP pneumonia for at least six months if not longer.  

You’re still on anti-shingles medication. So, it’s not that you stop all medicines, but it’s you stop the myeloma medicines. And then, at least for the first six months, maybe even up to a year we have to make sure you don’t get any major infections.  

What Is the Role of Bispecific Antibody Therapies in Future Myeloma Care?

What Is the Role of Bispecific Antibody Therapies in Future Myeloma Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How does bispecific antibody therapy impact the outlook for myeloma care and treatment? Dr. Krina Patel discusses how this treatment, and CAR T-cell therapy, are revolutionizing myeloma care.

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma. Learn more about Dr. Krina Patel.

Related Resources:

Key Advice for Myeloma Patients | Questions to Ask About a Care Plan

Accessing Quality Myeloma Care | Advice for Overcoming Obstacles

Accessing Quality Myeloma Care | Advice for Overcoming Obstacles

Elevate | What Role Can YOU Play in Your Myeloma Treatment and Care?

Elevate | What Role Can YOU Play in Your Myeloma Treatment and Care? 

Transcript:

Katherine:

What role do you foresee bispecific antibody therapies playing the future of myeloma care?  

Dr. Krina Patel:

So, I think bispecifics are phenomenal. I’m a CAR T girl, but in terms of access, I will say, that more of our patients around the world are going to have access to bispecifics.  

And it’s off the shelf, so you don’t have to worry about taking cells out, making it, waiting and hoping to get those cells back. So, many more patients are going to be able to get it. And I think ideally if everybody could get a CAR T, my goal would be a CAR T first and then a bispecific until we can cure myeloma. Unfortunately, for the most part right now with these therapies, as single agents we haven’t seen that the majority of patients are cured.  

So, my goal is to make sure that I have all the treatment options possible to keep patients doing well for as long as possible. And so, again, ideally CAR T, then maybe a bispecific because of the way those resistance mechanisms happen. But if we don’t have the availability of CAR T for everybody or you’re not eligible, I do think bispecifics are a great therapy. And I have again patients who are frail, who are older that we’ve been able to give bispecifics to and they’ve had amazing responses. And I think right now they’re single agents. But I do think that as we get these trials with combinations approved, we’ll see a lot more increase in use of those.  

Again, the side effects are still something we’re learning about. So, bispecifics with BCMA, infections are a really big risk, even more than CAR T.  

So, it’s really, really important that, if anyone has fevers or they don’t feel well, they see their doctor right way and make sure it’s not a strange infection that we don’t usually see that needs to be treated versus even a regular pneumonia that can be pretty dangerous when your immune system’s down.  

So, that’s important. And then, the GPRC5D, as I said, it’s the taste and the weight loss and things like on skin that we really wanna make sure we do as much supportive care for that as possible.   

What’s Next in Myeloma Research and Treatment?

What’s Next in Myeloma Research and Treatment? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are the next generation myeloma therapies? Dr. Krina Patel shares an update on new agents, such as CelMoDs, and discusses how combination treatment and sequencing of therapy will evolve in the future of myeloma care.

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma. Learn more about Dr. Patel.

See More from Evolve Myeloma

Related Resources:

Next Generation Myeloma Treatment Options

Next Generation Myeloma Treatment Options 

Evolving Myeloma Treatment Options | Bispecific Antibody Therapy

Evolving Myeloma Treatment Options | Bispecific Antibody Therapy 

Evolving Myeloma Treatment Options | CAR T-Cell Therapy

Evolving Myeloma Treatment Options | CAR T-Cell Therapy 

Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Patel, for the last few years advances in myeloma treatment have been focused on the cellular therapies like CAR T. Can you share what’s next in myeloma research and treatment? 

Dr. Krina Patel:

Yes, I think it’s been really exciting. The last 10, 15 years, really, we’ve just catapulted in the whole world of immunotherapies; so, from monoclonal antibodies to even IMids and CelMoDs and things that we’ll talk about a little bit now, and cell therapy as well as just other ways of engaging T-cells with the bispecific therapies too. So, I think what’s really exciting, that we have not just new mechanism of action that’s coming down the road but new targets.  

So, again, coming back to really the big stuff like immunotherapy that I really like a lot and what I really am excited about, we have different ways of using the immune cells to help fight myeloma.  

And so, things like IMids, lenalidomide, and pomalidomide that are older drugs that we’ve had since 2006, but really there’s newer ones called CelMoDs that are coming out that are being evaluated in clinical trials. One is called iberdomide. Another is called mezigdomide.  

So, we’re really excited about this really in combination therapy, just like the prior iMids were used. And what it really does is it improves your immune system; it activates it to a point where things like monoclonal antibodies, such as daratumumab or isatuximab or elotuzumab, can work better in synergy.  

But even new trials with some of our CAR Ts that we already have available, the BCMA therapies, combining it with these to see if we can make those T-cells work better. 

So, once you get the CAR T-cell infusion, can we give some of these therapies now to improve how long it lasts, how well they work. And the same thing with the bispecifics.  

These are therapies that are using the T-cells that are already in your body. Can we combine it with some of these of other immune therapies that will help the T-cells already there get activated, and then the bispecific takes them to the myeloma to really get treated. And I think those combination studies that are coming down are really, really exciting. And then, I think the new antigens, as I mentioned, not just BCMA therapy but we have GPRC5D and we have something called FcRH5.  

And to my patients, I say it’s alphabet and number soup basically but they’re really targets for myeloma that we’re finding. It’s pretty amazing, considering that we didn’t have a target for the longest time, like lymphoma when they had their CD19 and we were jealous. And now we’re finding all these targets and now we’re figuring out how do we combine different mechanism of action for different targets so that we can hopefully kill every last myeloma cell.  

Is Myeloma Research Examining Sequencing of CAR T and Bispecifics?

Is Myeloma Research Examining Sequencing of CAR T and Bispecifics? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Is the sequencing of CAR T-cell therapy and bispecific antibodies being examined in myeloma studies? Expert Dr. Ola Landgren from University of Miami Sylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center discusses what’s known about sequencing of CAR T and bispecifics and what needs further study in clinical trials.

Download GuideDescargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

What Are the Latest Artificial Intelligence Advancements for Myeloma?

What Myeloma Patient Monitoring Occurs After Induction Therapy?

What Are the Benefits of Myeloma Consults and Second Opinions?


Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So with both CAR T and some of the bispecifics approved, obviously if a patient comes in and they need something right away, they’ll take whatever is first available. But all things being equal, if a patient says, well, I can, I have both CAR T accessible and bispecifics accessible. There are some patients out there, I’ve spoken with some who are wondering, is there a benefit to sequencing one before the other, or are there any trials looking into that?

Dr. Ola Landgren:

There are studies that have allowed patients to go on treatment with one of these modalities. For example, the bispecific antibodies with the prior exposure to a CAR T-cell therapy. There are also trials with CAR T-cell therapy that has allowed patients who have been exposed to prior antibodies, either bispecifics or the conjugated antibody drug conjugates, Belantamab mafodotin. So if you look at those studies and see how the numbers compare, if you are not exposed or you are exposed, I think the data is not entirely clear-cut.

There is no definitive study. Some data suggests that maybe it’s not that different, but then there are some studies that suggest that if you go to the antibody first that maybe that would lower the efficacy of the CAR T cell. So some people have for that reason said the CAR T cell should be done first. To make it even more complicated, there are some studies that have then taken time into the equation. So that means that you could have the patient treated with the antibodies for BCMA and CD3, and the antibody is given successfully for a long time, for many years. And eventually, unfortunately, the antibody may stop working.

Now, if you switch back to back to a CAR T-cell therapy without any other therapy in between, some studies indicate that that’s less likely to be beneficial. But if you instead do another target, say you did GPRC5D/CD3, or you did a completely different therapy with small molecules or you did carfilzomib (Kyprolis), or you did venetoclax (Venclexta), or IMiDs, or different types of combinations that are out there, been around for a long time, and you get good mileage out of those combinations.

Now, if that stops working, if you now go to this other therapy, you go back to the CAR T cell, that will suggest that the results are not that different. So I think that there are aspects that we don’t fully understand. I personally believe, based on what I’ve seen, based on what I know from treating thousands of patients with myeloma for almost 30 years I’ve been a doctor, I think time is probably very, very important. So if you go back to back from one therapy to the other, that’s less likely to be beneficial. If you go from one therapy, and it stops working and go to the other drug with the same target.

But I would say it’s not that different from how we think about IMiDs or proteasome inhibitors. If you were to go single drug with a proteasome inhibitor and you switch to single drug with another proteasome inhibitor, or the same thing with an IMiD, that’s less likely to work versus if you went to something else in between. So we just need to generate more data and learn. Lastly, I want to say that in my experience, from all I see in my clinic at the current time, I think the choice that patients make is based on personal preference and to some degree also the situation of the patient. I saw a patient yesterday, 50 years old, who came from another country and has relocated to us here in Miami and asked, what are the options?

And we talked about CAR T cells, we talked about bispecifics. And considering all the different factors that CAR T cell would imply that we had to give some other combination therapy for two or three cycles while we harvest the CAR T cells and manufacture the CAR T cells and then plan for the admission and give it, and also that the patient was not really very happy about the side effects in the hospital with CAR T cell. That patient shows the bispecific, but I’ve also seen other patients in the same situation saying, I’d rather do these different steps for two or three months, I stay in the hospital, and then I enjoy being off therapy.

Actually, I saw another patient just a few days ago, a gentleman in his upper 70s who we had the same conversation, and he had picked the CAR T cells. And I saw him with his wife and he has been off treatment for two years doing excellent. So different patients make different decisions. And I think that is just how the field is evolving. So I think we should be open to individual patient’s priorities and what they want, and we should just offer everything. And of course, we can guide if a patient wants us to give direction, but I think presenting it and let patients be part of the decision-making, that’s the future of how medicine should be practiced.


Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

Evolving Myeloma Treatment Options | Bispecific Antibody Therapy

Evolving Myeloma Treatment Options | Bispecific Antibody Therapy from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are bispecific antibodies, and how are they advancing myeloma care? Dr. Omar Nadeem of Dana-Farber Cancer Institute discusses the role of this new therapy in myeloma care, shares an update on ongoing bispecific antibody research, and compares this treatment to CAR T-cell therapy.

Dr. Omar Nadeem is the Clinical Director of the Myeloma Immune Effector Cell Therapy Program and Associate Director of the Multiple Myeloma Clinical Research Program at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. Learn more about Dr. Nadeem.

Download Resource Guide

See More from Evolve Myeloma

Related Resources:

What Is the Role of Bispecific Antibody Therapy in the Future of Myeloma Care?

What Is the Role of Bispecific Antibody Therapy in the Future of Myeloma Care?

Myeloma Research Highlights From ASH 2023

Myeloma Research Highlights From ASH 2023 

What Should Myeloma Patients Ask About Developing Research

What Should Myeloma Patients Ask About Developing Research?

Transcript:

Katherine:

Well, another therapy that has emerged in myeloma is bispecific antibodies. What patient type is this therapy right for? 

Dr. Nadeem:

So, bispecific antibodies are great because they’re off the shelf. What that means is that CAR-T cells, we first have to collect the T cells and we then have to send them off to be manufactured, and that manufacturing process can take up to a month, sometimes even longer, for some of the current available CAR-T products.   

And then, after the cells are returned to the facility, we then give usually three days of chemotherapy to try to suppress some of the immune systems of the patients. So, that way, when the cells are administered, they can expand robustly and do essentially what they need to do. 

So, that whole logistical process can take a couple of months by the time you identify somebody for CAR-T cells and then, from that moment until they can actually be treated. With bispecific antibodies, if we think somebody’s ready to go, you can basically get it as soon as we can have somebody ready to go either in our clinic or on the in-patient facility.

So, they’re much easier. They also utilize T cells to attack myeloma cells. We now have three approved bispecific antibodies. Two of them are targeting BCMA, the same exact target that we have in CAR-T cells, and one of them is now targeting a new target called GPRC5D, which is also highly expressed on myeloma cells.  

So, having all these bispecific antibodies available is excellent because patients can have access to them a lot faster and now we’re trying to answer the question of sequencing. Can you give bispecific antibodies after CAR-T cells for example? Can you give one bispecific antibody after another, especially if there’s a different target that we now have available?  

As a whole, though, bispecific antibodies tend to have lower response rates than CAR-T cells, particularly cilta-cel (Carvykti), which is cilta-cel that has a very high response rate of close to 100 percent.  

Most bispecific antibodies have response rates somewhere around 70 or so percent, so about two-thirds of patients respond to these therapies, again, in that fifth line or four or more lines of therapy. So, in that space, that’s the response rate. And across the board, generally speaking, patients benefit from these bispecific antibodies approximately a year on average. Some of the studies have shown longer benefit, and it also depends somewhat on response to therapy.  

Patients that have a really deep response can go even way longer than that. So, it is quite mixed in terms of how somebody may do on these bispecific antibodies, but those are the numbers.  

Katherine:

Well, it sounds like bispecific antibodies have really transformed myeloma treatment options.  

Dr. Nadeem:

Absolutely, and what goes hand in hand in this.  

I mentioned the logistics of CAR T, but then there’s also the supply and availability of CAR-T cells. Since the approval, the demand for CAR-T cells has been very high because of all these excellent results, but the supply really hasn’t been there. So, even at a center as busy as ours, we can only treat a handful of patients with CAR T-cell therapies compared to bispecific antibodies, where that is essentially an injection similar to many other approved myeloma agents that you can just readily treat patients with. So, CAR-T cells, while I think, again, have higher efficacy, with that comes slightly higher toxicity as well. It’s a very different kind of treatment program.  

And then, patients get a treatment-free interval, which you don’t see yet with bispecific antibodies. On the other hand, bispecific antibodies are readily available, slightly lower response rates, slightly lower toxicity when it comes to at least the traditional T-cell directing toxicities. And then you have, again, the readily available nature of it, which I think is hugely beneficial for patients.  

Katherine:

You talked about some specifics regarding bispecific antibodies, but are there updates in bispecific antibody research that you’d like to share? 

Dr. Nadeem:

Yeah, so, again, kind of following the theme of what we just said about CAR-T cells, can you bring these antibody therapies earlier? And there’s ongoing trials now looking at it in newly diagnosed multiple myeloma and early relapses, and then we presented our data at ASH this previous year looking at it in high-risk smoldering myeloma. We treated patients with teclistimab (Tecvayli), which is a BCMA bispecific antibody that is approved for relapse refractory patients. And what we demonstrated in that study is that people that got teclistimab had a 100 percent response rate with an MRD-negative rate. So, kind of as deep of a response as we can measure, also at 100 percent.  

So, this is something that we had not seen before. When their immune systems are a lot healthier, they may benefit more. So, hopefully we’ll see confirmation of these results in other trials.  

Particularly in the newly diagnosed space because we do think that these antibody therapies have such huge potential to treat patients, and then hopefully we’ll have durable responses. So, I do think that some of this paradigm may shift over the next few years, and then there’s also combinations that are currently being studied: combinations with traditional myeloma therapies, such as monoclonal antibodies, other immunomodulatory agents, or proteasome inhibitors. All these combination trials are now ongoing to see can you improve upon some of those numbers that I highlighted before with single-agent bispecific antibody therapy. 

Katherine:

Can you share the pros and cons of bispecifics and how it compares to CAR T?” 

Dr. Nadeem:

Yeah. I think we mentioned earlier that as a whole, they’re very similar. They’re both T-cell re-directing therapies, in many circumstances, with the same exact target of the myeloma cell, but because this isn’t a cell infusion – this is a cell injection – that you receive that redirects your T cells to the myeloma cells, you tend to see a little bit of a lower toxicity signal when it comes to the cytokine release syndrome incidents and severity. You see lower neurological toxicity, usually, than you do with CAR  T-cell products as a whole.  

With that comes slightly lower efficacy than you see with at least some of our CAR-T products, but if you respond to therapy, then the durability of response can be as good as you can achieve with CAR-T cells. One thing to note about the bispecifics, though, is that it is continuous therapy, so you are getting it on some regular schedule. Right now the approval is for it to be given weekly and then go to every two weeks after six months of therapy if you’re basically in a good response.   

A lot of that is to try to mitigate the risk of infection. So, that is one of the biggest things that we have seen with bispecifics more so than CAR-T cells. Because it is continuous administration of these therapies, that really suppresses your immune system significantly, and infection rates are quite high. So, we typically give other ways to try to mitigate that using immunoglobulin infusions to try to boost up your immune system. Typically, we do that once a month for patients, making sure you’re on the right prophylactic medications and then really adjusting the therapy and the schedule to you depending on your tolerability.  

So, as we said before, it’s an excellent option. I think bispecific antibodies are going to be the mainstay of myeloma therapy going forward because CAR-T cells, again, we can’t really treat everybody with CAR-T cells just simply because of the dynamics of how the process is. So, having the bispecific antibodies available for patients is excellent.   

Myeloma Patient Expert Q&A: Dr. Ola Landgren

Myeloma Patient Expert Q&A: Dr. Ola Landgren from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

START HERE bridges the gap between expert and patient voices, empowering myeloma patients to feel comfortable asking precise questions of their healthcare team.

In this webinar, Dr. Ola Landgren delves into the emerging and exciting therapies and clinical trials for myeloma, discusses the latest options for relapsed disease, and explores the current landscape of managing and monitoring multiple myeloma. Watch as Dr. Landgren answers patient-submitted questions and discusses another hot topic: the utilization of artificial intelligence in multiple myeloma.

Download GuideDescargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

What Factors Shape Myeloma Treatment Options After Relapse?

Myeloma Treatment Timing: Prior Therapies and FDA Approval Rationale

How is Treatment Fitness Determined in Multiple Myeloma?


Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Hello, and welcome. My name is Lisa Hatfield, your host for this Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program where we bridge the expert and patient voice to enable you and me to feel comfortable asking questions of our healthcare teams. The world is complicated, but understanding your multiple myeloma doesn’t have to be. The goal of this program is to create actionable pathways for getting the most out of myeloma treatment and survivorship.

Today I am honored and really excited to be joined by Dr. Ola Landgren. Dr. Landgren is chief in the Division of Myeloma and the Department of Medicine, and also serves as director of the Sylvester Myeloma Institute at the University of Miami’s Miller School of Medicine. Dr. Landgren, it’s such a pleasure having you today.

Dr. Ola Landgren:

Thank you very much for having me. It’s really a great pleasure to be here today.

Lisa Hatfield:

So in this program, first, we’ll get a high level update from Dr. Landgren on what the latest myeloma news means for you and your family. And then we will launch into some questions that we’ve received from you. Dr. Landgren. We’re at a pivotal moment in the history of multiple myeloma. We’re experiencing an unprecedented wave of progress marked by significant increase in new treatment options and ongoing research. We are very honored to have your expertise to guide us in understanding these advancements and providing clarity around all the evolving landscape of myeloma care.

So before we get started, to you at home, would you please remember to download the program resource guide via the QR code. This is where you’ll find useful information to follow before the program and after. So we are ready to START HERE. Dr. Landgren, can you speak to the emerging and exciting myeloma therapies and trials right now?

Dr. Ola Landgren:

I’ll do my best. There are so many things to talk about, and I don’t think we have 10 hours, so I will have to shorten it. But I would say that the past 12 to 18 months, we have had three new drugs approved in the field of myeloma. These are the bispecific antibodies. The first out of those three was the BCMA-CD3 targeted drug teclistamab-cqyv (Tecvayli). And in the middle of 2023, we had both talquetamab-tgvs (Talvey), and elranatamab-bcmm (Elrexfio) approved. Talquetamab has another target is GPRC5D with CD3. And elranatamab is similar to teclistamab with the BCMA-CD3 targeted bispecific antibody. These are amazing drugs. They have been found in patients that have been heavily pretreated to result in about 60 percent or more percent of patients responding.

So overall response rates ranging from 60 percent to 80 percent in various trials. We have now these drugs approved, they’re still only approved as single drug and there are new trials going, combinations of two of these or these drugs with other drugs such as daratumumab (Darzalex) or IMiDs, such as lenalidomide (Revlimid) or pomalidomide (Pomalyst). So a lot of drug development is ongoing as we speak. We also have the CAR T cells that are reasonably new drugs. We, you think about everything new every week there’s a new drug, but they are very new CAR T cells.

We have had them for about three or so years, three-and-a-half years. And, the two drugs that are approved in that setting is, ide-cel (idecabtagene vicleucel) [Abecma]. That was the first and then cilta-cel (ciltacabtagene autoleucel) [Carvykti], that was the second. They both go after BCMA similar to the two antibodies I mentioned, teclistamab and elranatamab because they are CAR T cells, that indicates that they are cells.

They come from the same person who’s going to receive them back as treatment. So you collect the cells from the blood and you manufacture them into to CAR cells. So chimeric antigen receptor T cells, and then you give them back. There are several new CAR T-cells in development. There are other targets in development, GPRC5D, for example. There are additional other targets and there are also dual targeted cell therapies in development.

There are also allogeneic CAR T cells in development and that means that you could have a product off the shelf. So someone could donate cells, they could be manufactured into CAR T cells, and then you could give them to technically any person, so it doesn’t have to be the same person collecting and then manufacturing, giving them back. So that would shorten the time window for production.

And there are a lot of other details also that are important in this context. The whole manufacturing process that’s currently four to six weeks is being improved. There are some technologies that can make the CAR T cells in 48 hours, but the turnaround time is maybe one to two weeks with all the control steps, but that’s still a huge improvement. And then you have the antibody drug conjugate if you want.

So then you have the belantamab mafodotin (Blenrep). That actually was the first BCMA targeted therapy we had in myeloma. And then the drug was approved on an accelerated approval study. But when the randomized study was completed, it turned out that it was not better than the control arm. The company took it off the market. And now what’s happening is that there are two new trials, and one of them was just reported in the beginning of February of 2024.

The other one was around the ASH meeting in 2023. These two trials show that if you combine it with other drugs, the most recent one was with bortezomib-dexamethasone (Velcade-Decadron), that was superior with the belantamab mafodotin with bortezomib-dexamethasone versus daratumumab with bortezomib-dexamethasone. So I think we will probably see this drug coming back to the myeloma field. It is currently available as compassionate use, so physicians can prescribe it, but these trials will most likely, I would think, lead to FDA approvals with these combinations.

And lastly, I would say that other exciting trials, there are so many trials going on, but another thing that I think is interesting and exciting is also the use of antigens. And you can use mRNA and things like that. So these are like the vaccines. You can either, take a patients’ myeloma cells and look what they have on the surface, you can make more traditional vaccines or you can use more sophisticated newer technologies just like how the COVID vaccines were developed. And you can inject these sequences and then they will translate into spike proteins where the immune system could go after myeloma cells.

We don’t yet have a product like that in the myeloma field, but there are a lot of biotech and groups that are working to see. Moderna, was actually initially a cancer vaccine company and then COVID came and they turned into a COVID company, and now they’re be back again in the cancer field. So that’s a little bit of a summary of a lot of the exciting news that’s out there.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. And do you have any comments about the sequencing of some of these? So with both CAR T and some of the bispecifics approved, obviously if a patient comes in and they need something right away, they’ll take whatever is first available. But all things being equal, if a patient says, well, I can, I have both CAR T accessible and bispecifics accessible. There are some patients out there, I’ve spoken with some who are wondering, is there a benefit to sequencing one before the other, or are there any trials looking into that?

Dr. Ola Landgren:

There are studies that have allowed patients to go on treatment with one of these modalities. For example, the bispecific antibodies with the prior exposure to a CAR T-cell therapy. There are also trials with CAR T-cell therapy that has allowed patients who have been exposed to prior antibodies, either bispecifics or the conjugated antibody drug conjugates, Belantamab mafodotin. So if you look at those studies and see how the numbers compare, if you are not exposed or you are exposed, I think the data is not entirely clear-cut.

There is no definitive study. Some data suggests that maybe it’s not that different, but then there are some studies that suggest that if you go to the antibody first that maybe that would lower the efficacy of the CAR T cell. So some people have for that reason said the CAR T cell should be done first. To make it even more complicated, there are some studies that have then taken time into the equation. So that means that you could have the patient treated with the antibodies for BCMA and CD3, and the antibody is given successfully for a long time, for many years. And eventually, unfortunately, the antibody may stop working.

Now, if you switch back to back to a CAR T-cell therapy without any other therapy in between, some studies indicate that that’s less likely to be beneficial. But if you instead do another target, say you did GPRC5D/CD3, or you did a completely different therapy with small molecules or you did carfilzomib (Kyprolis), or you did venetoclax (Venclexta), or IMiDs, or different types of combinations that are out there, been around for a long time, and you get good mileage out of those combinations.

Now, if that stops working, if you now go to this other therapy, you go back to the CAR T cell, that will suggest that the results are not that different. So I think that there are aspects that we don’t fully understand. I personally believe, based on what I’ve seen, based on what I know from treating thousands of patients with myeloma for almost 30 years I’ve been a doctor, I think time is probably very, very important. So if you go back to back from one therapy to the other, that’s less likely to be beneficial. If you go from one therapy, and it stops working and go to the other drug with the same target.

But I would say it’s not that different from how we think about IMiDs or proteasome inhibitors. If you were to go single drug with a proteasome inhibitor and you switch to single drug with another proteasome inhibitor, or the same thing with an IMiD, that’s less likely to work versus if you went to something else in between. So we just need to generate more data and learn. Lastly, I want to say that in my experience, from all I see in my clinic at the current time, I think the choice that patients make is based on personal preference and to some degree also the situation of the patient. I saw a patient yesterday, 50 years old, who came from another country and has relocated to us here in Miami and asked, what are the options?

And we talked about CAR T cells, we talked about bispecifics. And considering all the different factors that CAR T cell would imply that we had to give some other combination therapy for two or three cycles while we harvest the CAR T cells and manufacture the CAR T cells and then plan for the admission and give it, and also that the patient was not really very happy about the side effects in the hospital with CAR T cell. That patient shows the bispecific, but I’ve also seen other patients in the same situation saying, I’d rather do these different steps for two or three months, I stay in the hospital, and then I enjoy being off therapy.

Actually, I saw another patient just a few days ago, a gentleman in his upper 70s who we had the same conversation, and he had picked the CAR T cells. And I saw him with his wife and he has been off treatment for two years doing excellent. So different patients make different decisions. And I think that is just how the field is evolving. So I think we should be open to individual patient’s priorities and what they want, and we should just offer everything. And of course, we can guide if a patient wants us to give direction, but I think presenting it and let patients be part of the decision-making, that’s the future of how medicine should be practiced.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you so much for that explanation. I’m going to segue into a comment that I always make to myeloma patients. As Dr. Landgren was explaining all of these treatment options, he is on top of all the latest and greatest news and therapies. I always recommend to myeloma patients newly diagnosed or otherwise to seek out at least one consult from a specialist. If you have difficulty accessing care, then a lot of places can do video conferencing, but even that one consult to see a myeloma specialist is so important in your care and treatment options. So I’ll just throw that out there, Dr. Landgren, as a myeloma specialist that you are, we appreciate your expertise in explaining that so well.

Dr. Ola Landgren:

I agree 100 percent with what you said, and I would like to add to that and say, going to a specialist center and it doesn’t have to be here, can really really help. It can be a lot of small things. There is data indicating that survival is longer for patients who have access to specialists. That has been published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. The Mayo Clinic has published that, I think it was more than one year longer survival.

That by itself is, of course, very strong, but I also think that there are a lot of the small things like the different types of pre-medications, the drugs that are given around myeloma drugs. Could you decrease the dose of some of these drugs like the dexamethasone? Could you get rid of Benadryl if you give the antibodies? These may look as small things, but they can make a huge difference for quality of life.

We have a lot of people coming for second opinions, and we always say if you live closer to someone that you trust, you should go back and be treated there. You can always reach out to us. We are happy to be involved. You have us as a backup. We can be your quarterback if you ever need us. I think that is absolutely the best advice for every patient. Go and get feedback and if you’re not sure about the feedback you get, you could always have two different quarterbacks and you could ask them. I don’t think having 10 or 20 is going to help, but having one or two second opinions, I think is a good decision.

Lisa Hatfield:

That’s really helpful information, thank you, Dr. Landgren. So I think we’re going to shift a little bit to managing and monitoring multiple myeloma. Once you’ve had a patient go through the induction therapy, what kind of monitoring do you complete for your myeloma patients and in particular those who have reached a certain level response and are maybe on maintenance or continuous therapy, what type of tests do you do and how often regarding labs, imaging, bone marrow biopsies?

Dr. Ola Landgren:

There are a lot of different ways, obviously, of practicing medicine. So every center has developed models that they feel very comfortable doing. So I like details. I like to know things. I like to check things. I’m not excessive in ordering invasive tests, but I like to know. Also, I like to make sure the patient not only has good long-term clinical outcomes, but also good quality of life. And to me, I try to minimize the intrusiveness of what we do. So, for example, if I give a combination therapy where there is an injection or infusion, say week one, week two, week three, and then there is a week off. I recognize that if you do labs during that week off, you will have a better yield and understanding of how these three different injections or infusions actually have moved the disease forward and suppressed the disease.

But in my mind, I think that week off is a very important week off for the patient. So I would rather do testing the third day of the treatment at the treatment unit. So if it’s week one, week two, week three, I would draw the myeloma labs that same day. And that would give the patient six more days off from injection, infusion that third week and the whole fourth week off. So I would give the patient 13 days off.

Again, these are small things. These are things I’ve thought about a lot. I’ve practiced medicine for many years and I recognize that having time off like that, many patients travel, they go on vacation, they do different things. So I don’t want to just randomly put a blood test in the fourth week just because I want to check after week one, two, three, and then have the assessment.

I sort of underestimate the benefit of the therapy and then I start the next cycle, say back to back cycle two and cycle three and so forth. I would typically do blood tests once a month following these principles. I do baseline and I would do the last day of injection or infusion. For a newly diagnosed patient, you ask me, I would for baseline always do bone marrow biopsy and an aspirate. I would always do a PET-CT for every patient as my default. Sometimes we end up doing MRI. So that could be other things that are happening, but that is what we do for the majority of our patients.

After we have completed four to six cycles of treatment for patients that are candidates for consideration of transplant with chemotherapy with melphalan (Alkeran), we would usually do a biopsy after four to six cycles and we would use that to determine what’s the optimal mobilization protocol for stem cells. When we do that, we would run a MRD test.

We would run our in-house flow cytometry test that we developed when I used to work at Sloan Kettering and we have developed that here in Miami as well. We work closely with Sloan Kettering, and we have set up this assay in collaboration in the new 2.0 version. We will also send the aspirate for the clonoSEQ at Adaptive Biotech, which is the DNA-based sequencing for MRD. We would send the patient for collection of stem cells.

When the patient is back, we will continue treating. So if you say we do it after four cycles, we would collect, if we do it after five or six, then we collect. After that, we would typically resume therapy and for the majority of our patients, we actually give around eight cycles of therapy, and we have seen that you can deepen the response. You don’t increase the toxicity, but you deepen the response for the vast, vast majority of our patients. When we have used our best therapies, we have done it that way…

We have even published on this, over 70 percent of our patients are MRD negative, and many of those patients, when they come to cycle eight, they ask, do I have to do the transplant? And that is a controversial topic. But I think there are two large randomized trials that have shown the same thing, that there is no survival benefit with transplant. But you can also say that there is, in those two trials, a progression free survival benefit, meaning that the disease would stay way longer with transplant.

But many patients say, if I reach MRD-negative, both those two trials show that if you’re MRD-negative without transplant, or you’re MRD-negative with the transplant, PFS was actually the same. And given that there is no survival, overall survival benefit, why would I subject myself to go to that? Why don’t I keep the cells in the freezer and go right to maintenance? And we will have a conversation with every patient, they would meet our transplant team, they would meet our myeloma expert team.

And the individual patient will make decisions. I think over time, more and more patients have chosen to keep the cells in the freezer. For patients that are MRD-positive, we would counsel towards transplant, but there are patients that don’t want to do that, and we are not forcing any patients to do that. We would give patient maintenance, and on some of our trials, we use the standard of care, which is lenalidomide maintenance.

And we are also developing new approaches where we have done daratumumab added once a month with lenalidomide. We have gone one year, and we have started to do two years of that. And after that, we would stop daratumumab and just do lenalidomide maintenance. Lastly, to answer your question fully here, we would do a PET-CT in the bone marrow after the eight cycles as a repeat, and we would offer a patient to check on maintenance on an annual basis, and this is in accord with the NCCN guidelines. So a lot of details here, but you asked me how we do testing.

Lisa Hatfield:

Yes. And one of the questions that comes up, too, regarding bone marrow biopsy, so you talked about patients kind of through the process of myeloma treatment, perhaps they’ve reached a point where they’re going to be for a while. Do you see a need for continued bone marrow biopsy, say, annually, or is there some benefit to using the newer tests that are being investigated, like mass spec testing and some of the newer ones, I think the EuroFlow? Do you think that that can be used to test for bone marrow biopsy? And how will that be used to monitor the myeloma if a patient is doing relatively well, or do you still like to do bone marrow biopsies on a regular basis? And I know every specialist is different in how they’ll answer that question.

Dr. Ola Landgren:

So what’s known in the literature is that there is no study that definitively has compared annual biopsies with these blood-based tests that you mentioned, showing that they can replace the bone marrow. Those tests or those studies have not yet been published and shown in a convincing way that we have done. This is how it is. It’s still an open question. We don’t know the answer for sure. So our take has been to offer patients to repeat it on an annual basis for maybe two or three and sometimes up to five years. I don’t think we would do biopsies every year for five, 10, 15 or more years. At some point, you have to ask yourself, what are we trying to chase here?

But I think the data we’re looking at that we have published on this and others have also show that if you are MRD-negative after completion of the eight cycles with or without the transplant, the patient that are MRD-negative one year later, they are more likely to be free from progression 10 years later, compared to the ones where you only check once and you don’t know what happened one year later. And that is frankly because there is a small group of patients where MRD-negative could bounce back into positive.

So to check after completion after eight cycles and to check after one more year on maintenance, I think gives us more confidence in thinking about if we eventually could step down and maybe even stop the maintenance at the long term. There is no study that definitively has proven that, but the data suggests that being negative after eight and do another year and even if you do two years out, those are very strong indicators that the disease will stay away long term.

So that’s our justification for offering it, but we would never force any patient. And I also want to say that we have thought about for a long time, how we can contribute to the field and how we can advance the field for blood-based tests. So we are here in Miami, developing a lot of these technologies, and I have made a promise that we will make all these available for all patients that come here to Miami as part of our standard workup. Because they are not clinically validated tests, they will have to be reported for now as research tests, but we will share the information with individual patients.

So we have three different platforms for now. And we are working on the fourth one. So one of them is the mass spec with MALDI, where we can screen the blood with lasers. And we can increase the sensitivity by maybe hundred times compared to existing immunofixation assays. The second is something called clonotypic peptides, which is a more sophisticated way to run mass spec, which is probably up to thousand times more sensitive than immunofixation. And the third technology we are doing or setting up right now is circulating cells that we sequence.

And this is the Menarini technology that is approved for certain other solid tumors. I think for GI malignancies, it’s FDA cleared, but we are doing it in myeloma. We are also looking for free circulating DNA. We’re working with New York Genome Center to set those types of assays up. So my thinking is, if we can offer every patient that come here to do it, and many of those patients will do an annual biopsy, we actually will have the database that can answer the question you asked me, if it can replace. There is no other way that this can ever be answered.

But having a large database, we actually can compare on a patient level, how the bone marrow biopsy with flow cytometry and sequencing, how that behaves in relation to the blood base. How does it perform? Is any of these better? Can they replace each other? So I think if we do this for one or two years, we will have the answer to the question. That’s why I want to do it.

Lisa Hatifeld:

So that kind of leads to the next question that is really an exciting area. I know it’s not necessarily new, but newer is artificial intelligence.  And I know I was reading an article about one of, that you and your colleagues have worked on a newer project and I don’t know if you pronounce it IRMMa or not, but using these large databases to help predict I think, it’s the response of treatment in some patients. So can you talk about that a little bit and tell us about that development and what developments are exciting with artificial intelligence in cancer, in particular myeloma?

Dr. Ola Landgren:

Yeah. So you mentioned the study we just published. We published a model that we call IRMMa and that stands for individual risk prediction for patients with multiple myeloma. So what we were thinking was at the current time, all the existing models are pretty much providing the average patient’s predicted outcome. So think about it is like it’s a probability measure. So you say, if I take this about therapy, what’s the predicted average outcome for patients that take this therapy, say, five years later? So on average, say 70 percent of patients are free from progression. That sounds pretty good. The problem is that you don’t know if you are in the group, 70 percent group that didn’t progress or if you’re in the 30 percent that did progress.

So where are you as an individual? So it’s almost like looking at the weather app on your phone. If it says it’s a 70 percent probability of sunshine and then you go outside and it’s raining, it’s because it didn’t say that it’s 100 percent probability of sunshine. So if you think about another situation would be, say, in a GYN clinic, if a woman were to come and ask the doctor, am I pregnant? Yes or no? You couldn’t say it’s 70 percent probability. You would say, yes, you’re pregnant or not pregnant.

So for myeloma, we have for a long time been living in these weather report systems where we say 70 percent or 30 percent. And we want to go in the other direction of the pregnancy test, where we actually can say for someone with this particular disease profile, with this treatment, this is where this is going to take us. We worked on this project for almost four years and we worked with a lot of other groups around the world that have a lot of data. And they have graciously agreed to collaborate with us and share their data sets. The beauty with this collaboration, there are many beauties of it, but one of them is that people don’t treat patients the same way.

And that actually has allowed us to say for patients that have a particular biological or genomic makeup, if you’re treated this way or that way or the other way or a fourth way and so forth, which of these different treatments would make patients have the longest progression and overall survival? So if you have a large database, you can actually ask those questions. So you can say that you profile individual patients in full detail and you put them in detailed buckets instead of grouping everybody together.

And now if you add a new case, if a new patient is being added and you say, which bucket would this individual fit? Well, this is the right biological bucket. You can then use this database to say out of all the different treatment options, which treatment option would last the longest, which would give the best overall survival? Other questions you could ask is also, for example, you have a patient with a certain biological workup or makeup. And you say, if I treat with these drugs, will the addition of, say, transplant, will that prolong progression for his survival?

And you can go into the database and the computer will then say, I have these many patients that have this genomic makeup and these many people that were treated with this treatment with transplant versus the same treatment without transplant. There was no difference in their progression or overall survival. So then the computer would say, it doesn’t add any clinical benefit, but there could be another makeup where the answer is opposite, but transplant actually would provide longer progression for his survival. I think the whole field of medicine is probably going to go more and more in this direction. So what we want to do is to expand the number of cases.

So we are asking other groups around the world, if they have data sets with thousands of patients, they could be added to this database and we could then have more and more detailed information on sub types of disease and more and more treatment. So it will be better as we train it with larger data sets. The model is built as an open interface so we can import new data. And that’s also important because the treatments will continue to change. So we, for example, say I have a patient that has this genetic makeup. I was thinking of using a bispecific antibody for the newly diagnosed setting.

How is that going to work? The computer will say, I don’t know, because we don’t have any patients like that in the database because that’s not the data, type of data that currently exists from larger studies. But let’s say in the future, if there were datasets like that, you could ask the computer and the computer will tell you what the database finds as the answer. But if you go for another combination, if that’s in the database, it would answer that too. That is where I think the field is going.

And lastly, I would say we are also using these types of technologies to evaluate the biopsies, the material. We work with the HealthTree Foundation on a large project where we are trying to use computational models to get out a lot of the biological data out of the biopsies and also to predict outcomes. So I think artificial intelligence is going to come in so many different areas in the myeloma field and probably in many, many other fields in medicine.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you so much, Dr. Landgren, for that broad overview of myeloma, especially relapsed and refractory myeloma. So it’s that time now where we answer questions we’ve received from you. Please remember that this is not a substitute for medical care. Always consult with your medical team. And we’re going to jump right into some questions that we’ve received from patients, Dr. Landgren, if you have a little bit of time to answer these questions for us.

Dr. Ola Landgren:

Of course.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. So broad questions. We try to make them broad so they apply to most people, but this patient is asking Dr. Landgren, what are the key biological processes driving disease, progression and evolution of multiple myeloma, and how can we target these processes to prevent disease relapse and improve long-term outcome?

Dr. Ola Landgren:

So that’s a very good question. So I think in a nutshell if you use genomics, which refers to the genetic changes that you can see in the plasma cells, there are certain features that the myeloma cells have. They have the copy number changes, that’s the gains and losses of chromosomes. You can find these if you do FISH and cytogenetics could be, for example, gain of chromosome 5 or gain of chromosome 7 or gain of chromosome 11. That would be part of the Hyperdiploidy disease, or you have loss of chromosome 13 or 13q deletions. We also refer to 17p deletion. These are copy number changes, they’re extra or loss of these chromosomes. But then you have also the structural variance where you have the translocations of chromosome 14, chromosome 14 harbors the IGH locus, which regulates the making of immunoglobulins.

Plasma cells make immunoglobulins. For reasons that are not entirely clear. The translocations in myeloma that include IgH, they are partnering up with oncogenes. There is a list of oncogenes, there’s MATH, there’s three MATHs, A, B, C. There’s FGFR3, MMSET, and there’s also Cyclin D1 that are on the list. So these are the different types of structural variants that you can see with FISH probes.

What people have understood less about are something called mutational signatures. And myeloma is made up by eight distinct mutational signatures that you can see in every single patient. And what that means is that you can, if you conduct whole genome sequencing and you look at all the base pairs, you can see there are certain number of combinations. C can be swapped for A and C can be swapped for G or C can be swapped for T, T can be A and T can be C and T can also be G.

Those are the combinations. So there are four different base pairs, but if you, because the DNA is double stranded, these are the only possibilities that mathematically that you can see. Now if you look for every base pair and you look on one base pair on the left and one on the right, we call that 5 and 3 prime, you look through triplicates, every of these base pairs can have these different swaps I mentioned. Mathematically, there are 96 different combinations that you can come up with. That’s it.

If you don’t go through the entire genome from left to right, you see that there are these recurrent eight signatures that are there in every patient. So although we don’t understand why they are and exactly how they function, the fact that you see them in every patient tells us that this has to have something to do with the biology of the disease. It must have a role in the control of the disease. We are starting to see that there is one signature that’s called APOBEC. That signature seems to be very important for resistance to treatments. And you can see that APOBEC can be more or less expressed.

And if APOBEC is very expressed, we see that there are lot of mutations in the cells. We have seen in patients with the chemotherapy that APOBEC can be very expressed. When we treat with four drug combinations, it can be very expressed. And what I’m saying, when I say it can be expressed, these are in the patients that relapse out of these therapies. We have also seen that in CAR T cells and bispecifics. So that makes me believe and our group believe that the cells use some form of what we call tumor intrinsic defense mechanism to protect themselves from whatever therapy we use.

It doesn’t matter if it’s immunotherapy, chemotherapy or small molecule therapy, there are some fundamental programs the cells can turn on. We need to understand that better and we are spending a lot of time trying to drill into this.

Lastly, I also want to say there was a fourth class of genomic events called complex events that you can see in myeloma, something called chromothripsis. That’s a very severe genomic lesion, is a ripple effect through the genome. There are a lot of havoc going on. And the first time we saw that, we thought this has to be something wrong with this sample. But when we look through more and more samples, we see that about a quarter of the patients actually have this chromothripsis.

So the bottom line is, it’s time to stop doing FISH, it’s time to do more advanced sequencing, ideally whole genome sequencing, but a step towards a whole genome could be to do whole exome sequencing. But there are companies saying that you can do whole genome sequencing for $1 in the future. So that’s really what needs to happen. We need to have better tools to better understand and then we can use this to better understand how to differentiate the therapy and have an individualized treatment. That’s what I talked about with the IRMA model.

Lisa Hatfield:

All right, well, thank you so much for that explanation. Dr. Landgren, can you speak to the advantages that bispecific antibodies offer over traditional therapies and how do you see their role in overcoming treatment resistance?

Dr. Ola Landgren:

Well, the bispecific antibodies is a novel way of engaging the immune system to go after the myeloma. So if you think about the other antibodies we have, we have three other antibodies. We have daratumumab, we have isatuximab (Sarclisa), we have elotuzumab (Empliciti), they are naked antibodies. They bind to the myeloma and on the backend of these antibodies, there is something called the FC receptor that attracts cells, NK cells, for example, also T cells, and they also attract, some of these antibodies also attract complement and they also by themselves send what’s called a death signal into the myeloma cell.

The bispecific antibodies are very different. They bind and they don’t send death signals, they don’t engage with the complement. What they do is that they have another arm sticking out that binds to the T cells. That’s a CD3 arm and there’s an open pocket. So when a T cell passes by, it grabs the T cell. And now you have a T cell linked to the antibody sitting next to the myeloma cell and the T cell will kill the myeloma. T cells can be very aggressive and kill the myeloma. You just hold them together, it’s like a matchmaker.

And if you think about how CAR T-cell therapy is designed, you take out the T cells, you manufacture them to have a special antenna receptor on their surface, and then you give them back again. And then they bind, this receptor binds to myeloma cells. So in the setting of a CAR T-cell therapy, the T-cell sits next to the myeloma cell, but that’s because the T cells were taken out of the body, manufactured to have this receptor that then finds the myeloma cell. But the bispecific antibody, that they don’t require the T cells to be taken out, to be modified this way.

You just use your existing T-cells in your body and these antibody just binds to the T cells and the myeloma cells in the body. So it’s sort of a little bit mimics what the CAR T cells do, but it does it in its own way within the cell, within the tissue in the body. You asked me for resistance mechanism and how they are better. Well, I think the best answer I can give you is to say that the overall response rate for the bispecific antibodies are very high. They are 60 to 80 percent single drug compared to the current trials. And if you look and see the trials that have led to approval for the other existing drugs, they were 20 or 30 percent.

So the overall response rate is much higher for the bispecifics than they were for the other existing drugs. We don’t really know exactly how to use them, I would say. What’s the optimal dosing schedule? We give them weekly, it may be every other week, and maybe monthly, eventually, I would think. And should they be combined with which drugs? That’s ongoing investigation. Other questions are, can they be stopped? Can you monitor patients off therapy for a long time? Will some patients never have the disease coming back? We hope so, but we don’t know. Or would it be patients could be off therapy for a long time, like with CAR T cell? Could that happen with the bispecifics? It’s possible.

And if you were to monitor with blood-based tests and you see that there is reappearing disease, would you then put patients back on the therapy? These are questions we…there are a lot of questions, we don’t have answers to all these, but that’s where I think the field is going. A lot of people, including us, are trying to investigate this.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. And we have a number of questions about MRD testing, so I’m going to try to combine those all together. Basically, what the questions are asking is how do you interpret MRD testing with regard to prognosis, treatment response, and maybe even like treatment, ongoing treatment? How do you use those results in your clinic or any comments you might have on the MRD test?

Dr. Ola Landgren:

So MRD tests have been around for quite some time. We have been pioneers pushing it. We have worked on it for over 15 years. We worked with the FDA to see if MRD could eventually become an endpoint for drug approval, that’s work in progress. The FDA will make those decisions. There are a lot of trials that use MRD as a secondary endpoint to see how it correlates with progression-free survival. And there actually are some trials that have been using it as a cool primary or primary endpoint in the absence of FDA’s decision to accept it. But that is probably going to change in the future. We will see.  What have we done in the clinic? Well, we have used it in the same way as we have done with PET-CTs and the regular blood work. So if you use SPEP IFE light chains and you see there is residual disease after you have delivered your planned treatment, people have used what’s called consolidation therapy.

So we have done the same with the MRD test. If there is someone who has a little bit of disease left, we have tried to see if we could make that patient MRD-negative. We have also used it as a tool to build more reassurance. I mentioned before for patients who get this new combination therapies, if they are not very keen on jumping right to chemotherapy with Melphalan and transplant, if they want to collect the cells and keep them in the freezer, using the MRD as a tool to guide for reassurance.

Looking at the randomized trial showing that MRD negativity with or without transplant seems to have the same progression-free survival and in the absence of overall survival, either way, that has been published. But we would always say to patients, there are no definitive studies that have shown that this is how it is. It’s still an area of investigation. So if a patient wants to sort of do everything by the traditional book, we would give every step in the therapy and not pay attention. But a lot of patients say, I would rather monitor, and if I have to do these more toxic therapies, I wouldn’t do it. But I will use MRD to build confidence in myself.

Lisa Hatfield:

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Landgren, these have been great questions, and I actually have another half sheet of questions that we don’t have time for, because that’s all the time that we have. Dr. Landgren, thank you so much, it’s been a pleasure talking with you today. So thank you for joining our Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program. This has been an excellent discussion. Thanks to all of you, for your questions and tuning in. My name is Lisa Hatfield. I’ll see you next time.

Dr. Ola Landgren:

Thank you very much for having me. Thank you.


Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

How Can CAR T-Cell Therapy Be Explained to Patients and Families?

How Can CAR T-Cell Therapy Be Explained to Patients and Families? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can patients and families be educated about CAR T-cell therapy? Expert Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic discusses the approach he takes to explaining the treatment to those new to learning about CAR T.

Download Guide | Descargar Guía

See More from [ACT]IVATED CAR T

Related Resources:

Reducing CAR T-Cell Therapy Barriers for Relapsed/Refractory Myeloma

Reducing CAR T-Cell Therapy Barriers for Relapsed/Refractory Myeloma

Roadblocks for Black and Latinx Patients From CAR T Trial Access

Roadblocks for Black and Latinx Patients From CAR T Trial Access

How Are Cultural and Language Barriers to CAR T Therapy Being Addressed?

How Are Cultural and Language Barriers to CAR T Therapy Being Addressed?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Dr. Ailawadhi, how do you explain CAR T therapy to your patients and families hearing about it for the first time?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Lisa, that’s a very important question of how we explain CAR T to a patient, or their family members, of course, their caregivers. If we just take a step back and think about it, this is the most closed way are to science fiction in treating multiple myeloma. And so obviously, explaining that in terms that makes sense to them, gets them excited, but also gives them, one, the promise of the treatment and two, the appropriate details of potential side effects, et cetera, so that the patient can take an informed decision.

That boils down to the principle of shared decision making that all of us keep vying for. So the way I explain is that CAR T-cell therapy is based on the fact of taking a patient’s immune system, training it to go against that particular cancer and giving that hyper-activated or that activated trained immune system back to the patient.

And what we typically…the way I would explain that is that, some of these patients have had stem cell transplants before. It’s also important for me to keep comparing and contrasting with that. We explain to the patients that they typically undergo some testing to identify whether they’re candidates for CAR T or not, based on organ function, et cetera. Then we collect the T cells from their bloodstream. But as against stem cell transplant where the collection could have taken three to five days, T-cell collection is done only in one day in one sitting, outpatient.

And then those T cells are sent for manufacturing. During that time, the patient, we work on controlling their disease, and then those T cells are genetically modified. Some DNA for a target that is present on the myeloma cells, that is inserted into the T cells’ DNA.

The genetic material of a seeker is put into the T cells. Then those T cells are multiplied in the lab, and are sent back to us a few weeks later from the collection as a bag as the drug. And this has given back to the patients. Now, those trained activated T cells, have that seeker that they can specifically go and target a particular marker on the myeloma cells. In the case of both the CAR T cells that are currently FDA-approved, that, target on the myeloma cells is called BCMA. B-cell maturation antigen. So while the myeloma had that BCMA, the myeloma was growing because our immune system was not able to control it.

Now, the new…these activated T cells that came back or trained T cells, they have a seeker that can specifically go seek out the BCMA attached to it and kill those myeloma cells. And by the way, this BCMA is almost universally present on the myeloma cells. If I have to keep in mind an activation tip for this question of how do I explain CAR T-cell therapy is we take your immune system, as in the patient’s immune system, that immune system is trained to specifically go against the myeloma and is given back to the patients so that now those T cells are able to go and kill the myeloma, which was growing uncontrolled previously.


Share Your Feedback

Create your own user feedback survey

PODCAST: Thrive | Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma? What You Should Know

 

Dr. Beth Faiman, a myeloma expert and researcher, discusses factors that should be considered when deciding to undergo CAR T-cell therapy, advice for preparing for and after the process, and why a good support team is essential. Dr. Faiman also shares research updates in CAR T-cell therapy, and alternatives options to this myeloma treatment.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Download Resource Guide

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Welcome. I’m your host, Katherine Banwell. As patients navigate their myeloma care, it’s essential for them to feel formed when engaging with their care team. That’s why the Patient Empowerment Network developed the Thrive series, to share support and educational resources so that patients can feel confident at every stage of their care. In today’s program, we’re going to hear from a renowned myeloma expert as we discuss CAR-T therapy. Before we meet today’s guest, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you.  

Well, joining us today is Dr. Beth Faiman. Dr. Faiman, welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Thank you so much, Katherine, and it’s such an honor and a pleasure to be here today. My name is Beth Faiman. I am a nurse practitioner and a PhD researcher at the Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio, where I have worked since 1994, in the field of myeloma mostly. Thank you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us today. As I mentioned, today’s program is part of our Thrive series. So, from your perspective, what does it mean to thrive with myeloma?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

So, to thrive with myeloma is something that when I started managing patients in the 1990s individuals didn’t live very long, maybe two to three years, because we did not have good therapies. Now, we talk about living well with myeloma, thriving with myeloma. It just makes me so happy. I think for plants. I think of flowers that can grow in the right environment. I had a plant in my office recently that somebody had gifted me, and it sat there and tried to soak up the little bit of sunlight that it could muster and just wasn’t doing well.  

So, I brought it home and I put it in a big window. That plant is beautiful now and I just love looking at it and thinking about it. And it reminds me of how if you’re in your right environment with multiple myeloma you surround yourself with friends, families, coworkers, church friends, or places of worship, then you can really thrive in that environment or you can grow. And even though you have a cancer diagnosis, that is not – and I hate to use the D-word – a death sentence anymore. You can live many years and live well with myeloma in the right environment like my little plant.  

Katherine Banwell:

That’s a great idea to think about. Thank you. Well, we’ve covered this in recent webinars but it’s worth sharing again. Can you give us an overview of the process and timeline for someone choosing CAR T-cell therapy for myeloma treatment?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yes. So, CAR T-cell therapy, when we first started discussing this in the mid-2000s, I thought this was science fiction.  

Taking somebody’s own cells, engineering them to be fighters against the cancer cells. I thought it was science fiction. But now, we have two FDA approved therapies for multiple myeloma. It’s Ide-cel, which was approved in 2021 and Cilta-cel, approved in 2022.  

Now, the process is lengthy and I know you’ve covered this before but from my perspective, I think if you want to take something home form this webinar, plan early. So, you need to have three prior lines of therapy as a myeloma patient to qualify for this treatment. But you can start planning for it ahead of time.  

So, it’s not available in every center. So, you want to start researching what the closest center would be for you to have this therapy. Many different patient support networks will have these centers on their websites. So anyhow, you find out.  

“Okay. I want to learn more about a CAR T-cell therapy.” Then you have to meet with a specialist. So, you get that education, have that referral, and meet with a specialist at a center that does CAR T-cell therapy. And that might be where you got your initial transplant if you’ve then returned to the community. After that, then we find a slot for you when it’s ready. So, there is that process of financial, physical, social things that are checked in the background. You meet with a social worker, nurses, etc.  

Once you’ve confirmed that you’re going to go through this process – now, it might be three, six, nine months in the future, if you’re a planner – but if you want to just gain information, it’s that harvesting and storing of the cells. That’s where I try to tell people age is not a number. You can be at any age and you qualify for this therapy. We’ve had people well into their late 70s to early 80s who have gotten these therapies.   

Long story short, it’s a process.  

You get your cells harvested and then while they’re being manufactured into fighters, they take the T cells from your blood through an apheresis machine and freeze them, send them off, make them into fighters, and then reinfuse them in your bloodstream. It’s a long process. It can take anywhere from two to three months from when you decide it’s right for you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, thank you for explaining that. That’s really important. It puts into perspective. It’s a big undertaking. But also, quite manageable, I think, right, with the right team and support. Who are the members?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. The family members, friends, and, of course – I like to use the words the multidisciplinary team. That’s your physicians, your social workers, nurses, nurse practitioners like me, pharmacists, and then all your other specialists.  

So really, mounting that team from diagnosis and throughout your whole journey as a myeloma patient can really enrichen your life and help you thrive in that environment.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. It sounds like there’s a lot of support for someone going through this process and that the care partner also plays a critical role on the care team, right?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, absolutely. So, I am a big advocate for care partner though not everybody has a caregiver. So, it can be a formal caregiver, somebody’s spouse, daughter, son, significant other. Or it can be an informal caregiver. So, I’ve had patients that – because you need to have a care partner to qualify for CAR T-cell therapy, because patients need to be monitored for about 30 days afterwards. So, that might be pulling in friends from your place of worship, people from the community, and then also people from the cancer center.  

Some of the larger centers that do the CART-cell therapy have a network setup where you get this list of people that have volunteered to drive you to appointments or maybe arrange for Uber help to drive you back and forth. I am not plugging Uber or Lyft, but a rideshare company. And so, finding out those resources can help anyone – just about anyone – access these CAR  T-cell therapies, because you can have a long-term remission. Think about somebody who’s been through treatment A, B, C, or D and then now, “Gosh, maybe my life is going to be shortened.”  

Not necessarily. If this is the right recipe to control their myeloma then they can get 11, 24 months off of everything – just antibiotics – and be monitored. And so, it puts them at a position where if you can get the care partner, get a care team, to support you then you can have access to a potentially life extending with good quality of life therapy.   

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. I’m sure many of our viewers today are wondering who the therapy is right for and when is it most appropriate in the course of myeloma? Could you address that?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah, absolutely. So, currently, you have to have had three prior lines of therapy with drugs such as a CD38, which is – daratumumab (Darzalex) is a name of a medication.  

You have to have a drug such as lenalidomide (Revlimid) as well as a drug like bortezomib (Velcade). And you have to have had three lines of therapy. So, that’s how you can access the therapy. But if you’re willing to participate in a well-designed clinical trial there are studies with CAR T-cell therapy earlier on.  

So, one of the things that we’re advocating in the myeloma world is clinical trials. We haven’t gotten to where we are in 2024 with the advances in sciences, the advances in living longer and living well with myeloma, without the brave people before us that have participated in clinical trials. 

So, people who it’s right for would be if they qualify for a clinical trial before their third or fourth line of therapy or if they’ve had three or four prior lines of therapy. And there are other points to that which I’m sure we’ll talk about later on.  

Katherine Banwell:

In your opinion, what are three key considerations that myeloma patients and care partners should think about related to the CAR T-cell therapy approach?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, gosh. Well, I would like to say that always when you’re selecting a therapy, think of the physical, the financial, and the social implications of that therapy. So, physically is the medication too strong for you? Are you too weak to take it? Or is it just right for you? So, finding the right medication for the right patient at the right dose at the right time. So, the physical component. The financial component is also very important. So, maybe your insurance now won’t cover it but then there’s open enrollment in Medicare towards the end of the year or you can find financial support reimbursement through many of our generous organizations that will provide grants for certain medications.  

And then, the social. Do you have a care partner, as we discussed? The importance of being monitored for 30 days. If you don’t have a formal care partner, is there some system that we can help support you through so that you can have the different supports throughout. It’s not only that beginning part where you’re gaining the information – and I think of it like a timeline. The beginning part, you’re thinking about gathering information to the – in that process of getting yourselves back because of the side effects, which I think have been talked about in a prior webinar.  

And then, the post-monitoring where you go back to your community, taking antibiotics, antiviral medications, etc., to keep you living well longer. So, it’s a process.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, it’s great advice, Dr. Faiman, thank you. I’d also like to add that if you’re considering CAR T-cell therapy, the Patient Empowerment Network has a wealth of information on this topic, including resource guides and interviews with experts like Dr. Faiman. 

And you can find those at powerfulpatients.org/myeloma. So, Dr. Faiman, when a patient is talking with their care team about CAR T-cell therapy, what questions should they be asking to help determine if CAR-T is even right for them?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Katherine, that’s an excellent question. So, let’s just say that somebody from Patient Empowerment Network heard about CAR T-cell therapy for myeloma and then sought out a local institution that might be conducting that procedure. So then, they come for that visit and what you mentioned was just spot on, getting a list of questions together. What we do at my institution, as well as many throughout the country, is a process called shared decision-making.  

You might’ve talked about this on prior webinars, but shared decision-making occurs when that healthcare team, such as the physician, nurse practitioner, pharmacist, whoever, shares information with the patient and their care partner.  

You mutually share information to arrive at a decision. So, many studies have been done on shared decision-making. It’s done in many different areas. And so, through that sharing of information, you might think of different questions.  

Some of the things that I try to proactively offer – we all have our list of things that we educate our patients on, but some of the things I proactively will recommend to patients and their care partners when you’re seeking an opinion at these centers is, “How long will I be sick? What are the biggest side effects of the medication I have to worry about?” Asking your care team – I know it sounds silly, but are they aware of all your prior health concerns, especially if you’re coming for an evaluation.  

Maybe you have peripheral neuropathy where you have numbness and tingling in your fingers or toes or a history of kidney disease. Your kidneys look fine now but maybe a few years ago at the myeloma diagnosis the kidneys had a temporary failing and now they’re better so they’d want to protect you with future medications. How long will you have to take medications after the CAR-T procedure? There’s antiviral medicines, antibacterial medications, and medications called IVIG, which strengthens your immune system.  

And then, finally, asking about the infection protection afterwards. Do you have to get vaccinated again against pneumococcal, shingles, and all of those other things that we do. The cellular therapy guidelines suggest timepoint for one, three, five, etc., months after CAR T-cell procedure to get revaccinated. So, who’s going to do that for you?  

How are you going to know what to get? So, make sure that they give you a timeline, calendars, and set expectations for what you need to do as a patient and then you’ll help them set expectations for what they need to do to provide you the accurate education.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, talking about what to expect after CAR T-cell therapy, would you tell us what some of the potential side effects are?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, absolutely. So, CAR T-cell therapy – again, it harnesses your immune system using your T cells. Your T cells are so important in your immune system to be programmed as fighters. And as people age, or as long as – after they’ve had myeloma or other kinds of cancers, those T cells just don’t work as well. So, what we want to do is engineer them and program them with what we call a viral vector to be fighters. So, those T cells, as I mentioned, are harvested, stored, and then manufactured to go. 

And I tell people it’s like that Pac-Man video game. It goes around in your bloodstream just kind of eating away at the myeloma cells. So, you don’t take any medications. You don’t go in for IVs every week or twice weekly, or taking pills at home to treat the myeloma. It’s what we consider a one-and-done thing. So, if it works for you, it can keep you in remission for quite some time. But if it doesn’t work then there still are other therapies down the road.  

So, the CAR T-cell therapy is something that is an option but there are other therapies out there in many cases. There’s something called a bispecific antibody. There are three currently approved for multiple myeloma now. So, maybe a CAR T-cell therapy doesn’t seem right for you because you’re not in a good remission or the cancer’s too active right now so you don’t have the time to wait for manufacturing of the cells and putting them back in your bloodstream.  

Those bispecifics will fill that gap. So, when you’re discussing the options, aside from clinical trials and other drugs, the bispecific antibody is very similar. One of the things that I wanted to highlight is that nowadays we’re into these things called sequencing. So, we’re trying to figure out what order to give these super effective drugs. Should we give the bispecific antibodies first or should we give the CAR T-cell therapy first? And in most centers, if you have time to wait and you’re planning, the CAR T-cell therapy is right for most people and then the bispecifics would come later.  

Katherine Banwell:

All right. So, after CAR T-cell therapy is completed, what potential side effects might people experience, and what should they look for?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. I think of things in short-term and long-term side effects. So, the short term, you’re going to be admitted to the hospital and you have a risk for – when we get those T cells back – that cytokine release syndrome, or it’s abbreviated CRS – where you’re body’s immune system’s fighting.  

I tell folks it’s kind of like if you got a vaccine for a flu vaccine or pneumonia and you had a reaction it’s just way worse. So, you can get a high fever – the big first sign of this CRS. Usually, the providers will jump in with giving you a medication called tocilizumab (Actemra) or a similar drug that blocks IL-6, which is a chemical that is triggered when we get the CRS. And then, it stops those symptoms. And so, most of us know how to do that and will approve your insurance to get access to that tocilizumab or similar drug when we approve your CAR T-cell therapy.  

So, that CRS can get you really, really sick. You can get low oxygen levels in your blood. You can get a high fever and you can drop your blood pressure. But most CAR T-cells centers, the nurses and the staff are very well-trained to monitor this every eight hours, in most cases.  

Another rare side effect we worry about is ICANS and it’s a neurotoxicity kind of thing.  

It can be with CRS or without CRS. But they’ll ask you to do things like write your name on a piece of paper every eight hours or tell me – draw a clock or count backwards from 100. And so, if you have any deviation, even minor, from what you reported back beforehand then we worry about neurotoxicity. Now, that’s short term but that’s the reason why you can’t drive a car for 30 days is because it could be delayed. 

The CRS can start with the one thing, the ide-cel usually occurs within one day so most people are admitted to the hospital for that CAR T-cell therapy. The Cilta-cel, it onsets to about seven days. So, some people get the cilta-cel outpatient and then are monitored daily, whether in person or through virtual telehealth monitoring.  

But at any rate, those are the short-term. Long-term, we worry about low blood counts maybe for the first month afterwards. And then, those will come back to normal. And then, we worry about infection. So, I mentioned the antibacterial, antiviral, which is usually a medicine called acyclovir (Zovirax), which most myeloma patients will have been on anyhow. And then, that IVIG to protect against viruses and bacteria when your immune system is so low. 

But fortunately, if we control the CRS, it usually comes with the CRS, although it can be independent. We try not to give steroids, because we don’t want it to interrupt the CAR T-cell process. But many institutions will give that tocilizumab for ICANS. And if that doesn’t get better then they’ll give you a steroid, such as dexamethasone (Decadron). 

And so, that will usually reverse itself pretty quickly. Longer term, after 30 days, you can get with the Carvykti, particularly something called Parkinsonian things where you can get a little bit shaky or something like that. Again, it’s very rare and I have had hundreds of people who have undergone the CAR T-cell procedure at my institution. And knock on wood, fortunately, I’ve not seen first-hand that side effect. And I think it’s because we’re so good now at treating the – preventing the ICANS and CRS as best as we can while they’re inpatient and doing real close following.  

One other thing I want to note is if somebody who’s watching this does go in the hospital for any reason, get up and walk around and stay strong, as well as you can, during the procedure. You might be bored if you’re in the hospital anyhow, but try to stay as strong as you can in the hospital. It’ll help your post recovery for sure.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, what about more mild side effects like fatigue and changes in appetite?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. So, the fatigue and the changes in appetite are generally mild for most but I see it, in my experience, if your myeloma’s acting up really quickly, if you’re having a rapid disease progression, the medications that we give you to control the myeloma during this bridging therapy phase might cause some of that as well, not necessarily the CAR T-cell process. But think about it. We’re using your own cells engineered to be fighters.  

And so, that first month or two is probably when you’re going to be the most tired as your body is being programmed to fight against the myeloma cells. That fatigue tends to get better. And as I mentioned just a moment earlier, the importance of just walking around in the halls, getting out of bed when you’re in the hospital, that can really help your post recovery. It doesn’t seem like much, but there have been many studies about how muscle mass declines, energy declines when you’re hospitalized.  

And we want you to be as strong as you can and thrive as much as you can for when you’re out you can then do the things you want to do at a quicker pace.   

Katherine Banwell:

Right. That’s great advice. Beyond monitoring of any issues, what can someone expect related to returning to life as they knew it before the diagnosis? Is there a timeline for resuming lifestyle and activity?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah. So, I should say I because it’s from my perspective. I am a real strong advocate. I tell people to do what you feel like you can physically do. We know that myeloma can affect the bones and put your bones at risk for breaking and so we give you medicines to protect it. So, I do put some restrictions however on physical activity in terms of, “I don’t want you to bench press 40 pounds or 20 pounds,” in most cases. And depending on what the bones look like on x-ray, I’ll even restrict it to about five to 10 pounds.  

If you think about it, that’s a bag of potatoes. So, you don’t want to put too many restrictions on for everybody. But talk to your healthcare provider about what your specific restrictions are with physical activity. Because I don’t really put any restrictions on but I encourage things like riding a bike, especially a stationary bike in your own home, so that if you fall off – hopefully, you won’t fall off a stationary bike. But if you injure yourself, then you’re able to be in a place that somebody can help you.  

But riding a bike. Also, exercising in water. Water therapy is a great weight bearing exercise and there are times of day where you can go when the YMCAs or YWCAs aren’t as busy – or community centers. So, you’re less at risk for bacterial or other illnesses. But during that first month, I try to limit their exposure to people because you’re at risk for the different viruses that are all over the place, the bacterial infections. 

So, that first month is the critical period where I try to say, “Okay, try to lay low. Let’s get you through this period. Your immune system will start getting stronger on its own after this period.” And then, that month two you start feeling like doing more. You go to the grocery store. You maybe go to eat out at a restaurant but pick a time of day that’s less busy. So, go for an early dinner. There’s no shame in eating at 5:00 p.m. if you want to go out. And then, get a table in the corner with your own wipes. And so, that’s where your immune system is getting stronger. 

And then, by month three, I think most people will feel much, much better and much, much stronger. And if you can keep moving throughout this whole time, then you’ll be stronger on the way out.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Faiman, from what you’ve described, undergoing CAR T-cell therapy can be a very intense process. Why would someone consider this option over another myeloma treatment option?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah. So, the CAR T-cell therapies have really transformed myeloma, in my opinion.  

When we first started using CAR T-cell therapies, there was a long wait list because people who had had three, five, seven, 10, 12 prior therapies, they had very few other options. So, we had ethically assigned scores to people as to who – we’d get one or two slots a month and then we’d have 80-some people on this list. And we’re thinking, “How do we allocate who’s going to get this therapy?” And it’s because you can have a nice, long remission off of all therapy.  

It’s a great, great option for most people. Again, I would hope that we can get this moved further into the disease trajectory. There are actually two studies. One was a KarMMa study. It was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2023, early part of 2023.  

And it showed that when people get this therapy earlier, the Ide-cel first, you can have a longer remission. So, we’re talking about three, four, five or more prior lines of therapy you can get about 11 months with the Ide-cel.  

You could even get a longer remission off of all therapy if you move it earlier. Same with Cilta-cel. We had studies and different cohorts and you can be in a long remission. So, think of somebody who’s – myeloma’s incurable. It’s very treatable but it’s incurable for most. And so, you go from the expectation of staying on treatment until disease progression, much like other chronic conditions like diabetes. We don’t stop medicine for diabetes or high blood pressure.  

And it’s the same with myeloma and many of the cancers that we treat these days. And so, a CAR T-cell therapy will give patients the option of having that disease free interval where you can go and travel the world. I have patients that have bought RVs after their CAR T-cell therapy and now they’re going around the world – well, not the world. But around the United States.  

Katherine Banwell:

The country. 

Dr. Beth Faiman:

The country. And just really enjoying life and taking that time off and being realistic, knowing that we have to do bloodwork every month to make sure the myeloma’s still in remission because it can come back. But at least it’s sleeping for right now. So, you can go out and enjoy your life and take those trips and enjoy the little things and the big things.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. Well, thank you for that advice. I’d like to get to a few audience questions that were sent in prior to the program. Alice asks, can you share more information about T-cell collection? A recent webinar mentioned that myeloma must be in good control. Can you share specifics about the bridging therapy prior to infusion?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yes. So, again, the process is the lengthy process as we mentioned before. But for the actual T-cell collection, we will have approved you to get the therapy. Financially, we’ve cleared you. Socially, you’ve gotten your support systems and now we’re getting those cells out.  

We use a process called apheresis where a temporary catheter is placed under the skin, and it separates your white blood cells and then returns the red bloods and plasma back into the blood. And it sorts out those T cells. The process itself, you’re on the machine for anywhere for two or three hours. Hopefully, it’ll just be one day’s time. And then, they’ll manufacture those cells.  

So, during that period where we’ve put your cells and sent them away to wherever’s going to be doing the manufacturing, you’re going to need to get a treatment that’s going to keep you in remission from the myeloma. And it’s not going to prevent you from getting those cells safely back. So, we don’t want anything that’s too toxic for most people. So, what we’re doing now is we have that information that early on is better for myeloma to get these treatments. And so, the hope that bridging therapy won’t be as common of a thing anymore.  

Because now we’re selecting people that are – the myeloma’s just starting to act up. Let’s get those cells out, send them off, so we don’t have to do bridging therapy. We can just keep you – add a medication or take away another medication to keep you in remission. So, that’s the goal of bridging therapy. What’s that bridge to get your cells back in for some people? It might be a chemotherapy type of a thing. But for other people it’s just trying to get you that CAR T-cell collection and manufacturing so we don’t really have to change everything all up.  

And we’ve been very fortunate now that the wait lists have cleared in most institutions. CAR-T cell is available at more centers across the country and so we don’t have that backlog. And so, fortunately, bridging therapy will hopefully be a little bit less of a thing.  

Katherine Banwell:

We have another question. This one from Rita. What kind of monitoring takes places in the months following CAR T-cell therapy and what kinds of medicines are required afterward?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, excellent. So, the monitoring is usually on the short-term, within the first 30 to 60 days afterwards, oftentimes depending on what your blood counts are showing. You might have to get blood counts tested more frequently. So, that complete blood count shows you the white cells, the red cells. The white cells fight infection. Red cells carry oxygen. Platelets clot the blood. That’s a marker of how well your bone marrow is functioning. It also can be – those innocent bystanders can go low temporarily after this procedure.  

So, definitely those CBCs need to be tested, for some people weekly and for some people every other week. And your healthcare team will tell you how often. After that first two to three months and your blood counts are all in good shape, then we can just go oftentimes to a monthly monitoring of the myeloma labs. So, that’s the CBC and the chemistry panel but also the paraproteins in the blood and the urine get monitored.  

There’s also another test called a CD4 count that’s something that you wouldn’t have had beforehand. The CD4 count is an immune count that we want to be over 200. Oftentimes,  you’ll be on an antibiotic called Bactrim or an inhaled called pentamidine to lessen the chance of a certain kind of infection called PJP, or pneumocystis. So, those are those atypical infections that we’re now seeing with CAR-T cell and other therapies.  

And as I mentioned, acyclovir to protect against shingles is a medication but you’re not going to be on any anti-myeloma medications other than maybe a bone strengthener if you get that intermittently. Fortunately, after CAR-T cell, you don’t have any anti myeloma therapy as long as you’re in remission.  

Katherine Banwell:

We also received this question from a viewer named Rob. If you receive CAR-T therapy, how long does it last and have you seen remission for a long time?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

So, I’d like to tell Rob that I’ve seen a little bit of a remission and I’ve seen long-time remissions. Unfortunately, it goes back to the biology of the disease. People that have a more aggressive type of myeloma tend to not have as long of a remission but that’s not always the case. So, if you have what’s called a standard type of myeloma, which fortunately about 80 percent of the people have a standard or good type of myeloma, you can get an 11- to 24-month remission if you’ve had many prior therapies.  

Now, if we’re moving the CAR-T earlier lines of therapy, as in those two studies that I briefly mentioned with the Ide-cel and the Cilta-cel studies that are moving it to one to three prior lines of therapy, people are getting longer remissions.  

Unfortunately, I do not have a crystal ball. I can look at your disease genetics. I can look at how deep your remission status is and I can generally predict based on other studies how long of a remission you might get, but it’s not a guarantee. What works for one person might not work for the other so you take it with a grain of salt. We just say, “Gosh, this is a great therapy. We need to offer it to you while we have that window of opportunity. You’re in a good remission. We have a slot for you. We’re going to pick the best product for you. Let’s give you this option.” 

You might be one of those exceptional responders that are in remission for several years, which I do have people that have been in remission several years, fortunately.  

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. Well, thank you so much for the thoughtful responses to those questions. As we close out today’s program, can you talk about some of the ongoing research in CAR T-cell therapy and what you’re excited about?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, my gosh. I am so excited about CAR T-cell therapy research. There are these what we call CRISPR gene edited technology, which is really personalizing the treatment in CAR-T.  

There’s what we call an off-the-shelf approach where we don’t have to manufacture one’s T cells to be a fighter. So, these CAR T-cell therapies are the kinds of clinical studies where if you are in a position where you want to hopefully get an earlier access to a great therapy, this CRISPR edited at – Caribou is what it’s called, that we have at my institution. That might be right for you.  

There’s also the different targets. For example, the Ide-cel and the Cilta-cel target what’s called BCMA or B-cell maturation antigen. Basically, the BCMA is expressed mostly on cancer cells and less so on healthy cells.  

And so, that’s what the target is for these current CAR-Ts. We have different targets. So, what does that mean for you? If you had a CAR T-cell therapy against BCMA or a bispecific against BCMA now we have these different targets so that gives you other options for remissions status. So, if you can, I am a big, strong advocate for clinical trials. Like I said, it’s getting better access. You have a healthcare team. There’s so much stigma associated with clinical trials, but every single person is a candidate for some sort of a trial or another.  

So, talk to your healthcare team or you can go to clinicaltrials.gov and then all the patient care organizations – International Myeloma Foundation, Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation, has access to clinical trial information as well for patients. So, yes, lots of good things. New targets. Off-the-shelf so you don’t have to manufacture. So, that represents new treatment options for many patients.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Faiman, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. 

Dr. Beth Faiman:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.  

Katherine Banwell:

And thank you to all of our collaborators. To learn more about myeloma and to access tools to help you become a more proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for being with us.  

CAR T-Cell Therapy | Care and Monitoring Post-Treatment

CAR T-Cell Therapy | Care and Monitoring Post-Treatment from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How are myeloma patients monitored after CAR T-cell therapy? Myeloma expert and researcher Dr. Beth Faiman explains the testing that takes place following CAR T-cell therapy, how long monitoring will occur, and medications that are commonly prescribed for post-CAR T-cell therapy care.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect?

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages?

What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

What kind of monitoring takes places in the months following CAR T-cell therapy, and what kinds of medicines are required afterward?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, excellent. So, the monitoring is usually on the short-term, within the first 30 to 60 days afterwards, oftentimes depending on what your blood counts are showing. You might have to get blood counts tested more frequently. So, that complete blood count shows you the white cells, the red cells. The white cells fight infection. Red cells carry oxygen. Platelets clot the blood. That’s a marker of how well your bone marrow is functioning. It also can be – those innocent bystanders can go low temporarily after this procedure.   

So, definitely those CBCs need to be tested, for some people weekly and for some people every other week. And your healthcare team will tell you how often. After that first two to three months and your blood counts are all in good shape, then we can just go oftentimes to a monthly monitoring of the myeloma labs. So, that’s the CBC and the chemistry panel but also the paraproteins in the blood and the urine get monitored.  

There’s also another test called a CD4 count that’s something that you wouldn’t have had beforehand. The CD4 count is an immune count that we want to be over 200. Oftentimes, you’ll be on an antibiotic called Bactrim or an inhaled called pentamidine to lessen the chance of a certain kind of infection called PJP, or pneumocystis. So, those are those atypical infections that we’re now seeing with CAR-T cell and other therapies.  

And as I mentioned, acyclovir (Zovirax) to protect against shingles is a medication but you’re not going to be on any anti-myeloma medications other than maybe a bone strengthener if you get that intermittently. Fortunately, after CAR-T cell, you don’t have any anti-myeloma therapy as long as you’re in remission. 

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages?

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How has CAR T-cell therapy transformed care for myeloma patients? Myeloma expert and researcher Dr. Beth Faiman shares results from the KarMMa study that compared CAR T-cell therapy versus a standard regimen, and the benefits of this therapy over time.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Advice for Myeloma Patients Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy

Advice for Myeloma Patients Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy

Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Right for You? Questions to Ask Your Myeloma Care Team

Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Right for You? Questions to Ask Your Myeloma Care Team

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect?

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Faiman, from what you’ve described, undergoing CAR T-cell therapy can be a very intense process. Why would someone consider this option over another myeloma treatment option?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah. So, the CAR T-cell therapies have really transformed myeloma, in my opinion.  

When we first started using CAR T-cell therapies, there was a long wait list because people who had had three, five, seven, 10, 12 prior therapies, they had very few other options.  

So, we had ethically assigned scores to people as to who – we’d get one or two slots a month and then we’d have 80-some people on this list. And we’re thinking, “How do we allocate who’s going to get this therapy?” And it’s because you can have a nice, long remission off of all therapy.  

It’s a great, great option for most people. Again, I would hope that we can get this moved further into the disease trajectory. There are actually two studies. One was a KarMMa study. It was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2023, early part of 2023.  

And it showed that when people get this therapy earlier, the Ide-cel first, you can have a longer remission. So, we’re talking about three, four, five or more prior lines of therapy you can get about 11 months with the Ide-cel.  

You could even get a longer remission off of all therapy if you move it earlier. Same with Cilta-cel. We had studies and different cohorts and you can be in a long remission. So, think of somebody who’s – myeloma’s incurable. It’s very treatable but it’s incurable for most. And so, you go from the expectation of staying on treatment until disease progression, much like other chronic conditions like diabetes. We don’t stop medicine for diabetes or high blood pressure.  

And it’s the same with myeloma and many of the cancers that we treat these days. And so, a CAR T-cell therapy will give patients the option of having that disease free interval where you can go and travel the world. I have patients that have bought RVs after their CAR T-cell therapy and now they’re going around the world – well, not the world. But around the United States.  

Katherine Banwell:

The country. 

Dr. Beth Faiman:

The country. And just really enjoying life and taking that time off and being realistic, knowing that we have to do bloodwork every month to make sure the myeloma’s still in remission because it can come back. But at least it’s sleeping for right now. So, you can go out and enjoy your life and take those trips and enjoy the little things and the big things.