Tag Archive for: breast cancer care

PODCAST: Thriving With Breast Cancer | Tools for Navigating Care and Treatment



How can patients live well with breast cancer? Dr. Bhuvaneswari Ramaswamy reviews current and emerging breast cancer treatments, discusses the importance of emotional support, and shares advice and resources for engaging in care decisions.

Dr. Bhuvaneswari Ramaswamy is the Section Chief of Breast Medical Oncology and the Director of the Medical Oncology Fellowship Program in Breast Cancer at The Ohio State College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Ramaswamy.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Hello and welcome. I’m Katherine Banwell, your host for today’s program. Today’s webinar is part of our Thrive Series, and we’re going to discuss the tools to help you navigate breast cancer care. Before we meet our guest, let’s review a few important details. The reminder email you received about this program contains a link to a program resource guide. If you haven’t already, click that link to access information to follow along during the webinar. At the end of this program, you’ll receive a link to a survey.  

Please take a moment to provide feedback about your experience today in order to help us plan future webinars. And finally, before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Well, joining me today is Dr. Ramaswamy. Welcome. It’s so good to have you here. Would you mind introducing yourself?  

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Oh, no, of course not. Thank you so much, Katherine. And well, I’m Dr. Ramaswamy. I’m a professor at the Ohio State University. I’ve been here for about 20 years as faculty. My focus of interest, what I see in the clinic is primarily breast cancer patients. And my research is also focused on breast cancer itself, both treatment as well as prevention. I do both. I have a lab, and so I work on that to understand some of the mechanisms and biology of drug resistance as well as prevention.  

Why does like lack of breastfeeding or obesity, why does that increase the risk of breast cancer? I study that in the clinic. I am primarily interested in clinical research, so putting patients on clinical trials, both therapeutic and non-therapeutic, collecting tissues, collecting data to understand, again, biology that’s happening in the patients and what works and improving care and identifying new novel therapies. That’s what I do. 

Katherine:

Excellent. 

Well, thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to join us today. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Anytime. 

Katherine:

I’d like to start – we start all of our Thrive Series with the same question. In your experience, what does it mean to thrive with breast cancer? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

That’s a great question. I think it’s an important one because we always talk about surviving breast cancer, and that’s obviously the most important thing. We all want to survive, but we all also want more than that. We don’t want to just live, we want quality of life. 

And I think one thing that to remember is as soon as the breast cancer diagnosis is done, it’s in part – it’s difficult to say that you can thrive immediately. So, your focus is on really getting through the treatments and making sure it’s all done. So, at that time, managing the toxicities and getting through the stresses of going through the treatments and surgery, radiation, et cetera takes over everything else. But as you finish that off you, you want to focus on what are the ways you can try to get back to the life that you had prior to breast cancer.  

Now it’s difficult and it’s almost impossible to forget the big C word in your life. So, that’s going to hang and that’s going to kind of make anything you look at your perspective as slightly different. I mean, every pain could be worrisome because could it be a reference? Has the cancer spread? Or every bad news about another person could you, could transport that about yourself and then kind of worry about what could happen to you. 

Every visit to the doctor, and particularly your oncologist, is going to bring back memories. So, there are certain things that you can’t take away, but time can heal those. But what we talk about thriving is that you looking at factors that is going to make you and your body healthy. That is going to be exercise, being engaged in whether your work or your family work and being joyful and seek what brings you joy, whether it’s friends, your work or your family.  

And make sure you make time for that. And also eating right and diet is an important aspect of that. Not doing inflammatory diets such as highly fatty diets or meat-containing diet, but really kind of looking at your diet and your weight and your exercise. And trying to also discuss with your team about what are the symptoms you are having and how we can support you to mitigate those symptoms. And really having conversations and somebody you can confide with to both manage your physical aspects as well as the emotional aspects.  

And really kind of thriving and becoming an advocate for yourself as well as for others who have breast cancer is what I would say is truly thriving with breast – with the diagnosis of breast cancer.   

Katherine: 

Yeah. And we are going to go into a more in-depth discussion later as the interview goes on, but thank you so much for your perspective. Let’s start with an essential piece that helps people thrive, understanding their breast cancer. First, what are the types of breast cancer? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yeah, and I think that’s extremely critical. Empowering you, the patient, with the knowledge of the type of breast cancers and what’s the outcomes and why they’re getting some treatments, and what to look for is probably one of the most important things to do. And part of it lies primarily with the providers to ensure that education empowerment. But part of it also lies on the part of the patient to make sure they ask the right questions and learn about their breast cancer.  

So, the type of breast cancers you have that are hormone receptor-sensitive breast cancer, that means your tumor would be positive for estrogen and or progesterone receptors. And it depends on estrogen and or progesterone for its growth and wellbeing. And then there is a HER2-positive breast cancer, which means the HER2 protein is high in your tumors and that drives the cancer cells.  

And so, it’s important to understand that subtype and why we have certain treatments to improve the outcomes. And then the last one is when all those three are not there, ER, PR, and HER2. So, hence the word triple-negative breast cancers. These are the large subtypes of breast cancers that are based on these biomarkers, which are proteins that drive the growth of breast, the cancer cells. There is of course different types of breast cancer based on histology that is invasive ductal cancer, that’s very most common. The less, slightly less common is the invasive lobular cancer, about 10 to 15 percent.  

But then there are also very less than 3 percent called metaplastic breast cancers and other types of breast cancers that could also be histological different subtypes.  

And it’s important for you to know what type of subtype of histological or how does it look under the microscope is important for you to know as well. So, these I would say are the most important understanding of our breast cancer subtypes, at least this much to definitely educate the patient and patient having the understanding of their cancer. 

Katherine: 

What biomarker testing is standard following a breast cancer diagnosis? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, the three biomarkers that we definitely test for at this point are the estrogen receptor for strong receptors and the HER2. And, of course, there’s also the grade that your pathologist would grade your tumor. And grade is different from stage. And that is looking at how quickly your cells are growing. And these are the basic understanding that you should have about your cancer at this point. 

Katherine: 

Dr. Ramasamy, how is breast cancer staged? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

The breast cancer is usually staged by using couple of things. One is clinical staging. So, when you come in with the initial you feel a lump and you get a mammogram. So, we will stage you by understanding the size of your tumor in your breast as well as whether we are able to palpate your lymph nodes. Second, we, you know, the imaging. What we feel as a size is usually a little bit overestimated when we look at the mammograms or the MRIs that you have. And then we’ll see whether in the – in those imagings whether your lymph nodes are looking abnormal. So, we use these initially to do clinical staging. But then when we go to surgery, that’s when we do the correct pathological staging because now, we know exactly your tumor size. Then they do what’s called a sentinel lymph node biopsy.  

We don’t need to take all the lymph nodes to stage your nodal status anymore. We just use this methodology in the surgery, in this – during surgery to just pick out those nodes that is draining your tumor back. And whether they’re positive or not. In general, as long as you don’t have a very locally advanced cancer, we don’t need to do staging scans to stage you for breast cancer. But in case you are unlucky enough to have cancer spread in those, and we do scans and you have cancer either in your bone or liver or lung, then that is a higher staging, and that’s what’s called the stage IV cancer. 

Katherine: 

Okay. Another key component of thriving is finding a treatment that is right for your disease. What are the considerations that guide a treatment decision? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yeah, great question. So, what we just talked about, the two things that are very important for us to make a decision, and that’s where we have come far in the last 20, 25 years, is because we are not just taking the staging.  

That is anatomical staging, meaning what’s the size of your tumor and the lymph node involvement. We use those. That is important for us because that obviously changes the risk. The higher the stage, the higher risk of recurrence. The higher the risk, we have to do more treatment to get a benefit, right? So, that’s one side. But what we have come to understand is biomarkers are very important. That is biology of your tumor.  

So, the grade, how quickly it’s proliferating although it’s not a biomarker, but it tells us a lot. And then the three important biomarkers we talked about ER, PR, and HER2. Those all are important for us to make a decision. In addition to that, we do something called a genomic testing called Oncotype DX assay. There is also another test called MammaPrint. These are genomic testing.  

That is, we look at some of the genes that are up or downregulated in your tumor to decide whether you are going to benefit for something called chemotherapy or maybe just targeted therapies enough. So, these are some of the factors that we use to make a decision.  

Now, do we use age and your performance status? Meaning how well you are? Do you have comorbidities? Do you have bad diabetes? Do you have heart disease? Yes, they all go into that whole treatment decision, but the primary is made out of biomarkers and genomic testing and anatomic, and the rest are additional factors that go into our decision-making.  

Katherine: 

Yeah. What about metastatic disease? Are the considerations different when it comes to treatment? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

It is a little bit different because the first thing that we have to understand is when we are seeing them in stage I, stage II, stage III, which is stage IV is metastatic, stage II – we – our goal is a curator. We are trying to really throw the kitchen sink, although that’s really not what we do. We are trying to still be tailored therapy, but we are trying to do everything we can to prevent a recurrence.  

But now when you have a stage IV disease that is the cancer has spread, that is the horses have left the barn in the breast and has gone and settled in distant organs and gone, our goal is to try to contain the disease. So, prevent further progression, prolong the life and survival, and also improve quality of life. So, there are those consideration.  

The biomarkers still go into consideration. We ensure we biopsy the metastatic site and look for those biomarkers. We do the genomic testing, gene sequencing of this. That will also help with our decision-making. We, of course, look for clinical trials because new novel therapies are always more important, but these are the other factors. And, of course, performance status that is how well you are, how well your organs are functioning, and what’s your age, and how that affects your morbidity. All of those are also important. 

Katherine:

What questions should patients ask about their treatment options?  

Dr. Ramaswamy:

I think the most important thing is to understand what you have first. So, kind of the doctor will talk to you about what type, histological type of breast cancer you have. They’ll also talk to you about what biomarkers you have. And they will also talk to you about the treatment options, which could be chemotherapy versus target therapies, and what are the outcomes from those using clinical trials. So, I think the questions that you have to ask them is that, what do you feel like you would is right for your body, right? That’s important. That what you have some of the preconceived notions that we all carry. That bias and preconceived notions is just a normal natural way of learning. And so ask about those fears, ask about those hopes that you have. And if your hope is, “Hey, can I do as well without chemotherapy?” Ask that question. So, and it’s important to understand the side effects and the outcomes of each therapy.   

It may also be important for you if you do – you really don’t want to have treatments to understand if you don’t get treatment, what are your outcome changes? So, those are, I think, the important thing. And then what that does mean to you? What do you want out of your life? Longevity, quality of life? How long will your quality of life be affected? And how does that impact your understanding of what you want out of your life? I think those are important for you to ask and make sure you have a friend or a relative with you so that not everything is going to go in at the first or the second visit, so you have someone else who’s taking notes. 

Katherine: 

Yeah, good idea. Are there emerging therapies that are showing promise? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Oh, my God. There’s just tremendous emerging therapies that are showing extraordinary progress. And I talk about this to my patients all the time. I mean, I tell them like two years ago say in a patient with – patient with metastatic disease, I’ll say, last year this drug wasn’t approved.  

This drug is now approved for you to be given, and it shows extraordinary effect. So, every year we have new drugs getting approved, and we are also trying to get it used to be a little bit of a richness on the HER2-positive disease. And now we are seeing definitely a lot of richness on hormone receptor- positive disease. And I think we’re starting to see some new particular immunotherapy and other targeted therapies showing some response in triple- negative breast cancer.  

Now, I know that’s a place that we still need to see more newer therapies, but overall, in the stage IV setting, we have really many options to keep them in good quality of life and longer. But people will ask, “Really, why do I even need to get to stage IV?” Really look at me and improve the curative setting. And that again, we are able to pick the higher risk patients, what me – what it means to have higher risk disease, how do we target them, newer drugs to target them. So, I think in so many ways we are doing better. And we are also getting to a place can we detect higher-risk patients, not just by their initial diagnosis and response, but follow them sequentially by circulating tumor cells?  

And we are getting to that place where we can actually do circulating tumor DNA, so just isolate the DNA, and we know what will belong to the tumor. And then circulating tumor cells seemingly even after your curative therapy. And so that is something that’s getting approved. And so we are not only seeing treatment, but we are also trying to see better detection of that reference. So, I think we are in so many ways, improving. And I am – I’ve been in this for 20 years, some of the things that thought was a dream is coming true. So, truly just keep living well and keep thriving. There are options. 

Katherine: 

Yeah. That’s, it’s positive. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yes. 

Katherine: 

Dr. Ramaswamy, along with treatment can also come side effects. What are some common side effects of breast cancer treatment? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yeah, great question. Again, an important question for you all to consider. So, let’s divide our treatment to targeted therapy and chemotherapy. The targeted therapy could be the estrogen receptors and then the HER2 because the HER2, again, remember that biomarker. And then the chemotherapy that any patient with breast cancer could get, including, of course, the triple-negative. And then we’ll touch base a little bit later on with the immunotherapy. So, when we look at the targeted therapy with estrogen receptor, anti-estrogen receptors, of course, it’s like putting you into menopause again. It’s like so you could have hot flashes, you could have some emotional liability and you could have vaginal dryness and sexual libido could be lower.  

And also you could have joint aches and pains and your bone density could go down and cause osteopenia and osteoporosis and fractures. So, those are some of the – and we can address all of those that we’ll come to later. With the HER2-targeted therapies, one of the main things will be the heart. These can affect the heart because there are some receptors that are present there that these HER2 therapies can affect the myocardial function. So, they don’t cause increase in heart attacks, but just the pumping action of your heart could go down. We keep checking your heart function to help with that. And then with the chemotherapies, other than your blood counts going down, these are acute events. Those blood counts could go down, which could put you at higher risk for infections. Again, some of the heart chemotherapies can affect the heart. So, we’ll keep an eye on that.  

And, of course, fatigue that comes with all of these treatments that can happen. But some of those chronic things that can happen is also neuropathy. So, tingling, numbness in your hands and feet, even sometimes pain in your hands and feet. And then this can stay on for a little bit longer and can cause some trouble buttoning your shirt or playing the piano or putting your earrings. So, it can affect your daily quality of life and cause pain. The other important thing, which we do have now an option is also hair loss. I know that is something hard for age. It’s so hard for women to lose hair and the consequence of being identified differently and not having that – when you look at the mirror, it’s a constant reminder.  

So, we do have something called a scalp cooling that you could take an option and discuss with your doctors whether that how helpful that’ll be for your type of chemotherapy and whether you could use it and you can – but 60 percent of the time not lose all your hair and need a wig. So, that is something that you can address. So, broadly, these are the issues that can happen. Again, this is very broad. Depending on your treatment, you still need to talk to your doctors. 

Katherine: 

How can some of these side effects be managed? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, the key thing is to be first thing that I want to advise all our patients is that be vocal about your side effects. Okay? Sometimes we all think, okay, they did tell me I’m supposed to have all the side effects. I just need to keep quiet about it. That’s not what is important. And I think I did miss mentioning the GI tract changes like nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea. Again you think, oh, this is our part of all chemotherapy, I just need to keep quiet. No, that’s not the case because we actually give you anti-nausea medications before the chemotherapy. So, if it’s not effective, you need to have to tell your doctors, “Okay, this time I had a couple of sensations of nausea, but no vomiting.” 

Or “No, I was vomiting a lot.” Whatever it is. Even if  you had just nausea, it’s important to tell your doctors. If it’s diarrhea, you need to tell them. We do give you some medications, but if it’s not working, you need to tell them. And again, we always underplay the issues with sexual side effects because you don’t want to talk about that. I mean, it’s not important. No, it is important.  

It’s important for your intimacy, it’s important for your life, and it’s important for you to speak because there are supportive care therapies that we can provide. Neuropathy, again, I think your doctors will always ask you, but being vocal about it, being honest about it, and talking about it is important. So, again, fatigue.  

They are going talk to you about exercise, because exercise does overcome that fatigue. But if you’re not able to do it again, it’s honest to say, “No, but I didn’t do what you said last time.” So don’t feel bad about it. And there could be other ways we can improve your fatigue too. So, again, sharing those side effects is important and we can. We can address all of these side effects. Now, I’m not saying the minute we address these side effects it’s all going to go away completely, but they can get better. And it’s important for you to talk about it and get those supportive care measures. 

Katherine: 

Yeah, thank you for that. It’s really helpful. And it actually leads us into the next topic. Coping with emotions that come along with a breast cancer diagnosis such as anxiety and depression can be challenging. Why is it important to share emotional concerns with your healthcare team? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yeah, so I think one of the things that the breast cancer patients, I mean, I would say all cancer patients, I’ll be honest, or any kind of chronic illness, fearful illness. And I think most what they – I think what hurts them most is the how isolating the journey is because despite having very close family and they might have full trust in their providers. At the end of the day, those fears, those sorrow of potential mortality and all the side effects has to be gone through them. They’ve got to go through that. And then validating their anxiety, validating their fears, validating their symptoms is so important. So, that’s why telling your patient I understand. Whatever it is, you’re going through an isolating journey, it’s hard, and I validate all your concerns that you have.  

We can’t really compare apples to apples here like patient to patient because you – we all have an inherent approach to a critical problem. And this is a critical problem that comes into your life and whatever that approach is of what – how you’re going to approach this. So, there’s no right or wrong and how she copes and you cope. And sometimes family does that and sometimes your own friends do that. Like, oh, it’s okay, but see she did well and she and you know and see how she’s coping. It doesn’t help. I think so educating the family as well to say or the spouse particularly validate their concerns, give validation and acknowledge their concerns and then say something positive to help them move forward. And I think these are important. And I think what I tell my patients is that I will never know what you’re going through if you don’t share it with me.  

And this would be both emotional and your physical and okay, I can pick some of it with your in a body language, but I can’t really pick the depth of the problems and we can address how to find solutions. The third point that’s important is there are solutions for this. It’s not like they’re going to get better completely, but we can help you. We can help you whether it’s emotional anxiety symptoms, we can find peer group that could help. We can find psychosocial counseling that can help. We can also help with actual treatment and medications that helps with depression and anxiety that we can manage better. And we can help you with your sleep because sleep is so important. And when you’re sleeping is when you start worrying about many things.  

And the same way with all your other physical side effects, there are some things that we can do. We are never going to say, “Well, put up with this. You just have to go through this to get better.” We never say that. We will try to address it in some way. Now, I do understand the limitations of what we can do and it doesn’t always get better to everybody, but if you don’t tell us, we can’t even try.  

So, it’s so important to share and sometimes sharing all this reduces the burden on you. So, and I think that’s important as well, so. 

Katherine: 

Dr. Ramaswamy, before we move on to answering questions from our breast cancer community, I’d like to touch upon the concept of shared decision- making. In your mind, what does that mean? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, it is a concept that has come more lately in our lives. Even as I started, we didn’t – not that we didn’t do it, we didn’t give it a name. And I think now giving it a name always helps because we always think about it and make sure we are doing it. I think the shared decision-making is important on two levels. Sometimes we do have treatment options that are very similar as far as outcomes, so.  

It is important to understand what are the goals of the patient. Is it that even if it’s a 0.5 percent increasing their cure rate, is that their goal? Or really looking at the benefits versus the risks and versus side effects and trying to reduce the side effects and quality of life. So, I think this – those kinds of things, this will never be addressed if you don’t understand our patient and give them an opportunity to speak out what they want.  

So, I think in – and this happens in every aspect of their journey, right? So, it is important even if they say sometimes they’ll talk about sexual side effects and we talk about it and we offer some clinics. And they might say, you know what? At this point, I think I know you’ve shared with me certain ways. Let me try it and then I’ll tell you when. So, everything is the shared decision-making because that’s when we have the highest sense of compliance and to feel a sense of feeling that they’re being heard, and we are in this together. And if we are not in this together, it is almost impossible to get the best outcomes both from quality of life and also survival. So – 

Katherine: 

Yeah. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

– that’s where the shared decision-making comes to. So, understanding the patient better and the patient understanding their outcomes better. 

Katherine: 

Yeah. Well, let’s get to a few audience questions that we received before the program. Rebecca writes, “I have skin itching as a side effect of my treatment. Is there anything that could be done to help?” 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, it depends on what she’s on and I’m going to assume maybe possibly like trastuzumab (Herceptin), pertuzumab (Perjeta) which are anti-HER2 therapies. They are – they can cause skin itching because they also get it for a year. So, I think the most important thing is of course discussing with your provider because is it one of these drugs that you’re on? Sometimes if it doesn’t get better with some of the – first things that we do is make sure you don’t have dry skin, that you’re ensuring that you’re putting a lot of moisturizers and addressing those. Where is your skin itching? Is there a rash associated with it.  

And so we kind of look at all of that and we can also give you some anti-itch medications if your itching is more at night when we all go to sleep. So, we can do that. And if it’s still there, then your provider can look at the pros and cons of is this drug causing it and is it worth pursuing it despite your itching, or taking it off so that it can improve quality of life. So, I think the most important thing is to make sure you talk to your doctor. And then they look at all of the others, the extent of their itching, the timing of their itching, and is there a rash, and then see whether the drug is causing and decide about holding or not holding the drug. 

Katherine: 

Okay. Good advice. Susan wants to know, have there been any advances in imaging or screening for a recurrence? And can anything be done to help prevent a recurrence? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, let me answer the first question. So, we did – we have done clinical trials where patients got imaging that meaning CT scans even if they don’t have symptoms every four months, as opposed to the other group had only scans when they got symptoms. And we looked at two outcomes. One is, are they surviving longer? Because that is, of course, our primary goal. But actually, the secondary goal was, is their quality of life better? 

Katherine: 

No. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Many of us knew that survival is not going to improve because we understand this disease. So, you did not. The two groups do not have any difference in survival, but we were very surprised to see even the quality of life was not improved. That’s because every time you have a scan, there’s a lot of anxiety what you’re going to say. And then if there is some somewhere that could be nothing at all, now they say, I’m not sure whether it’s inflammatory or metastatic. Now you have to go and biopsy. Now the biopsy can lead to some side, I mean, some complications, or sometimes we’ll say, no, we can’t biopsy it. We’re going to watch it closely.  

Now it’s easy for me to say, and then I’ll walk out and go and see the next patient. But you are going to carry this heavy burden in your mind and think about, oh, my God, four months I’m going to wait. What if it’s grown? So, there’s a lot of anxiety that induces that we are not able to address. So, that’s why we don’t do routine imaging for all patients. But we have a very low threshold to do the imaging if you have symptoms that we are concerned about.  

And I generally educate my patients any persistent progressive symptoms. So, two-piece persistent progressive symptom. Please call, don’t even wait for the next appointment, and then we’ll move forward from that. So, as far as imaging, I can’t say that we have a better tool to identify those little mats and do something better. But like I had said before in this particular meeting, we are now looking to see whether we can find that circulating tumor cells or circulating in tumor DNA.  

And if that proves out to be good, we have some late FDA approval of a test. But if it is going to impact patients’ lives by doing this on a routine basis and we think we can start the treatment earlier and impact their outcomes, you are going to have another test that we can do, which is even simpler, which is just a blood draw test.  

So, I think we are going in that direction and we’ll know a little bit more soon. Now, your second question was, can we prevent a recurrence? So, everything that we are doing is to prevent a recurrence, right? Because if you think about it, your tumor is going to be removed by surgery, and so it’s out. And we are going to do additional radiation, which to just kind of pick those little cells if they’re left. And in certain circumstances, I would say in most circumstances we would do radiation. But we are also doing all these treatments that we talked about, chemotherapy, antiestrogen therapy. We are doing it longer. We are doing anti-HER2 therapy. We’re trying to pick those high-risk patients who didn’t respond so well. We are giving them more treatments to treat. They’re all to prevent a recurrence.  

That’s what we are doing. But the – I’m – we did talk about two other things as well. Exercising, eating right, making sure you’re not gaining weight, and making sure you’re engaged because your reduced stress and lack of – increased happiness improves good cells in your body, less inflammation in your body, all of this will help. Okay? And no doubt all of this to is to help your – reduce your recurrence. But the thing is what we are not able to say to a patient is that, okay, we’ve done all this, 100 percent you’re not going to have a recurrence. We don’t have that level of confidence in what we do. We can say you reduced your risk of recurrence, but we can’t just say you have zero chance of recurrence. That’s where we still can improve and we’ll continue to do better, so. 

Katherine: 

Thank you for those responses, Dr. Ramaswamy, and please continue to send in your questions to powerful to question@powerfulpatients.org, and we’ll work to get them answered on future programs.  

Well, to close out our conversation, Dr. Ramaswamy, I’d like to get your thoughts on where we stand with research progress. Are you hopeful? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Extraordinarily hopeful. I mean, and I say this like I even said before, some of the things I was skeptical about. I have to pull back my skepticism, which I’m very, very happy about. The role of immunotherapy starting to come into breast cancer, newer drugs, oh my god, therapeutics has improved our understanding of how to prevent these cancers. Picking up those high-risk patients, looking at these liquid biopsies, our understanding of genomics and precision oncology, I just have so much hopes. Management of brain mats with radiation treatments that are so targeted, improving, reducing, or mitigating the side effects with the treat – with the less treatments for those patients who have less risk. I mean, in every possible way, we are improving the way – what we are doing. Can we do better? Particularly in some areas I do want to bring it out. I think we still lag behind in health equity.  

I think still a in African American patients with the breast cancer has a higher risk of dying from breast cancer. We haven’t really impacted it as well as we can do. I think understanding the ancestry, understanding the risk, understanding the lifestyle behaviors that increases the risk of these aggressive cancers, say in African American women and in –and those are very, very important. Prevention is so much better than cure, right? So, I think a little bit better of our understanding on prevention and the liquidity. Both access and understanding the biology and treatment. Improving our clinical trial approvals. We still only even in the best cancer centers, we only approve 25 percent of our patients, 15 to 25 percent of our patients into cancer clinical trials. And look at the changes we’ve had.   

But imagine if we can put 50 percent of our patients on clinical trials, we’ll double the progress because without those clinical trials, none of these drugs can be approved. 

Katherine: 

Yeah.  

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, what is today in a clinical trial is what is a tomorrow-approved drug. So, our understanding and talking about that becomes very, very important for us. And then I think lastly, there are some breast cancer like invasive lobular cancers that are only 15 percent that we still don’t understand as well. And so there are some more little pockets that I think we still need to understand. Male breast cancers are slightly starting to increase. We need to improve. So, there are areas we can do better, but overall, it’s absolute promising and very, very happy today. Our research is going really well, so, and it’s impacting patients’ outcomes.  

Katherine: 

Dr. Ramaswamy, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Thank you so much for taking this to the patients. I appreciate you. So, thank you. 

Katherine: 

And thank you to all of our partners. If you’d like to watch this webinar again, there will be a replay available soon. You’ll receive an email when it’s ready. And don’t forget to take the survey immediately following this webinar. It will help us as we plan future programs. To learn more about breast cancer and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit  powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell, thanks for being with us today. 

Will Telemedicine Be an Equalizer for Patients Experiencing Bias?

Will Telemedicine Be an Equalizer for Patients Experiencing Bias? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Some breast cancer patients may experience in-person bias during visits. Expert Dr. Regina Hampton from Luminis Health Doctors Community Hospital explains her perspective on situations when telemedicine can provide benefit to the patient experience.  

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Transcript:

Dr. Regina Hampton:

Yeah, I think it takes away that, that in-person bias that that providers may have, you can kind of put on whatever you want and put on your face, and then I think that gives some providers just a different view of who that person is without looking at them in-person. And creating that judgment that we all do, we all do it, and that’s just a part of human nature. But I think it’s great for those patients who…I have a lot of patients who are caregivers where they’re caring for their elderly patient, and they can’t leave that patient alone. Well, they can continue to do their doctor’s visit provided they don’t need a physical exam and be able to keep that. It may be helpful for that patient who is stuck at home, it allows them that access. So I think it does help to decrease the barriers, especially for patients who may live in a rural area, who may not be able to travel back and forth to the big city to see their doctor, and being able to jump on a telemedicine visit to be able to get their concerns heard, and then they can figure out if they need an in-person visit, so I think it’s just going to open up the world. 

I think it will give those patients more access, and hopefully it will help to just break down some of these barriers that we see as we move forward. 

Is Telemedicine an Advantage for Low-Risk Breast Cancer Patients?

Is Telemedicine an Advantage for Low-Risk Breast Cancer Patients? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

 For low-risk breast cancer patients, is telemedicine an advantage? Expert Dr. Regina Hamptonfrom Luminis Health Doctors Community Hospital shares her views on when telemedicine makes sense for low-risk patients and the benefits she’s seen for patients’ quality of life.

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Transcript:

Dr. Regina Hampton:

I think it helps to eliminate a lot of those in-person visits, which then means they can enjoy life. We want them to enjoy life after surviving their breast cancer diagnosis and treatment. So maybe they’re doing their televisit while they’re on vacation or while they’re out of the state, visiting with relatives. So it really allows them to be able to stay in tune and in touch with their healthcare providers, stay on top of their visits, but allow them the flexibility to continue to live life. I often tell patients, “Look, after we’ve treated you, we don’t want you in our offices all the time. We want you out there living life.” And if we can make that easier by doing a quick tele visit, especially if there’s not something serious going on, then I think that’s a great advantage. And I think as we move deeper and deeper into the telemedicine world, I think patients are going to appreciate that, and they’re going to actually demand it and say, “Well, you know, I’m doing fine, I just need you to look at my mammogram and us to have a quick discussion while on a cruise or while I’m on the beach in Hawaii enjoying some time with my family.” So, I think it’s opened up a new world, and it’s just going to get better and more easy, and I think patients are going to shift their brains to say, “You know, if I don’t have to be in an office somewhere, I’d rather be on a video or a phone visit.

Which Breast Cancer Patients Benefit Most From Telemedicine Visits?

Which Breast Cancer Patients Benefit Most From Telemedicine Visits? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Regina Hampton  from Luminis Health Doctors Community Hospital provides her perspective on care situations when patients can benefit the most from telemedicine – and when in-person visits can provide an advantage.

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Transcript:

Dr. Regina Hampton:

So, I think when we look at new patients, newly diagnosed, I think an in-person visit is certainly advantageous, I think people certainly want to meet their doctor in-person, what I found personally is after that initial visit, then we’ll convert the rest of the visits by telemedicine. As the patient is willing, if they want to come in, I’m happy to have them come in, where I think it’s really beneficial is in survivorship after the patient has gone through treatment, and she may still be following with her medical oncologist, because she’s on hormonal therapy. Or she may be on some form of chemotherapy, and maybe she wants for me to be able to take a look at her mammogram. Well, I can still do that because I can remotely access those films, and then we could do that television, and if she’s not expressing any concerns, then we can do that as a television, so this helps, especially for those patients in survivorship where they’re not going to three and four different doctors on a regular basis. They’re going to that one doctor, they’re getting that in-person visit, and then some of the other providers are part of the team can maybe move theirs to telemedicine visits, so again, I think it helps to keep patients with that connection to some of those without again, having the burden of taking time off of work, having to arrange childcare, they can do those other visits by telemedicine. And that’s something new that we weren’t doing pre-COVID, patients were having to come into the office and see every single provider for every six months for the first two to three years after their diagnosis, so I think that really has made it more convenient for the patients, and it’s really allowed us to really streamline our operations on the provider side, which then allows us to be able to serve more patients.  

What Opportunities Does Telemedicine Present for Breast Cancer Patients?

What Opportunities Does Telemedicine Present For Breast Cancer Patients? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Does telemedicine present certain advantages for breast cancer patients? Expert Dr. Regina Hampton from Luminis Health Doctors Community Hospital shares benefits that she’s seen in the breast cancer community and her perspective about the future of telemedicine. 

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Transcript:

Dr. Regina Hampton:

I think telemedicine has been great for the breast cancer community. I found in my personal practice, I do quite a number of visits and conversations prior to starting the first treatment. So, what’s nice is because we know the patient may be seeing several different providers, I do my initial visit and then the subsequent visits leading up to, say, surgery, we do by telemedicine. And what’s great about that is it allows us to dial in another support person, you can usually dial in at least two or three more people who can be a part of the conversation and hear the discussion, it also allows the patient to really…if they’re working full-time to be able to save that time, because maybe there’s another provider that they have to go see or they have to get their pre-op work-up. So it really just provides more access. And then if they just have a simple question, they don’t have to make a whole visit, take off half of their day and travel. We can either jump on the phone or jump on a quick video call, so I think it really has just opened up for not only the patients, but also the providers, and just given more access to care and really allows, I think us as providers to really meet people where they are. I’ve had people who’ve traveled or they had to go take care of a sick loved one, and we could jump on a call to do our office visit, and they could still do the things that they needed to do that may have come up unexpectedly. So, I think telemedicine is here to stay, and I think it’s only going to grow and grow and really provide more patients with access to providers. 

What Are Common Barriers Breast Cancer Patients Seeking Care Face?

What Are Common Barriers Breast Cancer Patients Seeking Care Face? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are some barriers breast cancer patients face in their access to care? Host Dr. Nicole Rochester asks Dr. Regina Hampton to share her perspective on obstacles that prevent optimal breast cancer care and how we can help get more patients on their path to empowerment.

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Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

So my first question for you, Dr. Hampton is, what are the common barriers, breast cancer patients and their families face when seeking care, what are the issues that our patients and families are facing?  

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

I think one of the big issues is having access to a breast center, so a multidisciplinary breast center, and so they tend to be in sort of in larger cities, sort of downtown, and many minority communities in these days can’t afford to live downtown. So they’re living on the outskirts, so they may…while they may have great doctors there, many times those doctors may not be up on the latest and the greatest, they may not have access to clinical trials, and so that really truly is a barrier in that sometimes our minority patients may get sub-optimal care. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

That’s very concerning. I’m glad that you brought that up, that we’re not disparaging the doctors that practice in those settings, but what you said is really important that they may not have access to some of those up-to-date clinical trials and things that we may see at academic centers, so thank you for bringing that to our attention. 

What Key Questions Should Newly Diagnosed Breast Cancer Patients Ask Providers?

What Key Questions Should Newly Diagnosed Breast Cancer Patients Ask Providers? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What key questions should breast cancer patients who are newly diagnosed ask their care providers? Dr. Regina Hampton explains vital points to learn about your specific breast cancer to ensure thorough exploration of treatment options and the best care for you. 

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Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

As a breast surgeon, can you share with us what are some key questions that patients with breast cancer should be asking their team at the beginning of their diagnosis? 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

I think it’s important to understand the type of cancer that you have, is it non-invasive, is it invasive, it’s important to know the characteristics of the tumor, is this a hormone-driven tumor, is in a non-hormone-driven tumor or triple-negative tumor? And then to ask in each step, with each discipline with surgery, finding out what are the pros and cons of a lumpectomy versus a mastectomy, when you get to the medical oncologist, finding out the pros and cons of chemotherapy versus hormone therapy, or doing both. How is that delivered? How is this going to affect my daily life? Can I still work if I’m getting chemotherapy? What happens when I get radiation? And what are the options? So, I think it’s just really important to, I’d say, go online and find a list of questions or a lot of great organizations out there that have pointed questions that you should ask each step of the way, many times the navigators will give you booklets and things to read that, have questions. And I think don’t be afraid to turn one visit into two or even three visits to make sure that you’re understanding the options. 

I‘m always troubled when I see patients who maybe years ago might have had some options, but they just rushed through and decided maybe to do mastectomy and they say, “You know what, had I really just stopped and thought about it, I might have made a different decision.” So, I think it’s very important, and I feel as the provider, the provider really should know how to read the room and really be able to pick up on the fact that, “You know what, she’s just not here today, and so…I’m going to stop talking. I’m going to send her away, let her digest this, and we’re going to come on back so we can have another conversation.” And I think as providers, we have to not be afraid, and I know it’s hard because time is tied. And we’re trying to see as many patients, but it’s really important to understand that every patient may need something a little bit different, and really trying to hone in on that, I think is really important as a provider, and making sure that you’re heard because a lot of times I think women of color, men of color as well, are not really heard by the doctor, and many of the doctors come in with their own biases and think, “Oh well, she’s young, she’s automatically going to want a mastectomy,” or “She’s old, we’re going to go ahead with a mastectomy,” well, it’s a matter of really listening to the patient and seeing how you can meet in the middle, and if the patient has to get a treatment that they’re not really keen on getting, but you know it’s the right thing to do. 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

Again, it’s just having that conversation and dialogue so that they understand your reasoning. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Thank you. So, Dr. Hampton, it is evident during this interview, and, of course, I also know you personally and professionally, and you have certainly built a reputation of being a compassionate provider. Clearly, you are very committed to communicating with your patients, but the reality is not all of our colleagues are like Dr. Hampton. And so, I’m thinking about something you said about really kind of pushing back, so to speak, sometimes we have to push back in a polite way with our health care providers, and you mentioned maybe the woman is being faced or the man with treatment recommendations and maybe they have some concerns about that, and I know that not every patient feels comfortable disagreeing with their doctor or even engaging in a dialogue where they want to actually have more conversation. So many people, even in 2021, adopt a paternalistic relationship with their doctor where the doctor says, do this, and then they do it. And so, is there any advice that you can give our listeners our watchers, for when they’re in that situation with their breast surgeon or their oncologist, and they’re just not feeling comfortable, they don’t feel like all of the treatment options are being presented, are there any tips that you can provide for that? 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

And in those cases, it’s important to go and get a second opinion, it doesn’t mean that you’re saying that that doctor is not a great doctor, you just may want to hear the information. It could be the same information, just presented it in a different way. All of us kind of explain things a little bit differently, and so I think getting a second opinion is important, and if your first doctor is offended that you’re getting a second opinion, you should fire that doctor. I tell my patients like, this is not my journey, this is not about me, this is really about you. Where do you want to go? We will help you get there, we’ll help you get the appointment, because I think it’s important for patients to have that information, so feel empowered and realize you can ask questions of the doctor, we’ve changed medicine and that…it’s a patient-centered approach. It’s not me. The doctor, I know all it’s…you may come in with a new study, let’s talk about it, and if you don’t have a doctor who’s open to hearing that information, then that might not be the doctor for you. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Yes, we have to have that type of relationship with our patients where we’re making joint decisions where the patient and their family members are truly brought in as members of the healthcare team. 

What Questions Should Patients Ask About Breast Density and Mammograms?

What Questions Should Patients Ask About Breast Density and Mammograms? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can breast cancer patients take action to improve their quality of care? Respected breast cancer expert Dr. Regina Hampton shares advice and insights on breast imaging and some situations when additional imaging may be necessary. Learn about what questions to ask related to breast density and mammograms. 

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What Key Questions Should Newly Diagnosed Breast Cancer Patients Ask Providers?


Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

If we start to talk about treatment access, I want to focus on access to quality treatment, in addition to the geographical barriers, we know that sometimes patients have limited access to quality breast cancer care due to their own gaps in knowledge, and studies show that patients who are knowledgeable and engaged in their healthcare received better care. So can you speak to what we have learned specifically if we talk about breast density and the various ways that patients should ask questions to their health care providers, those with dense breast tissue, what are some of the questions that they should be asking, and what should patients with increased breast density know?  

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

One of the things I like to start out with letting people know is that breast density is not anything bad. It’s just normal breast tissue. And when we’re younger and our breasts are a little more perky and sitting up, we tend to have more density in the breast, which is great, because you’re perky and high, but mammograms are not the best when you have dense breast tissue. As we start to get more seasoned and the breasts start to go south, that’s actually when mammograms get better, so it’s really important for patients to look at their report and see what they’re saying about breast density, many times they will recommend that a woman come in for additional imaging, it could be an ultrasound, it could be additional mammograms, so it’s really important that women tune into that, and if they don’t understand, to be able to call the facility and ask questions. And I think the big thing is not to be afraid if they ask you to come back in, what I tell people is, “You know what? That just means somebody is looking at your mammogram, and it doesn’t mean that there’s anything bad, it means somebody was looking and saying, ‘We might need to look a little deeper and just make sure there’s not anything going on,’” so trying to eliminate that fear when they see that word, density.  

And if you get a normal mammogram, but you are feeling something abnormal, you need to ask some more questions and ask for more tests. 

What Steps Can Breast Cancer Patients Take To Be More Proactive?

What Steps Can Breast Cancer Patients Take To Be More Proactive? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What steps can breast cancer patients take to be more proactive in their care? When is it appropriate to voice concerns? Dr. Regina Hampton offers advice for patients and loved ones how to work towards achieving optimal care.

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Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Are there some other practices or key steps that patients can take so that they have a proactive approach in their healthcare and that they can feel more confident in voicing some of these concerns when they’re communicating with their healthcare team? 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

I think it’s important to have a support person. And that could be a family member, it could be a neighbor, it could be your best friend. Doesn’t always have to be family, sometimes it’s better to have somebody who’s not family, because sometimes a family, they get you know they get emotionally involved and we get that, but I think it’s important to have another pair of ears because especially when you get a new diagnosis, you’re not going to hear everything, and I know patients. The second somebody says, cancer, breast cancer, pancreatic cancer, they just shut down. That’s it. They’re not going to hear. You could tell them, I have a million dollars for you, they’re not hearing you, they’re not going to follow the directions to go get that million dollars because they just have shut down, and even at that second visit, they still are just sort of…I call it the whomp, whomp, whomp. They see my mouth moving, but they’re not really hearing the words, but if they have another support person who can be there to record the conversation, who can take notes, even in the era of telemedicine, somebody can dial in to listen. I’ve been doing family meetings and people have been on the West Coast, or somebody couldn’t get off the work, but there was somebody there who could hear that information, I think that’s so important, and especially as we get more seasoned, Mom and Dad, sometimes they are a little in denial on the information that they can take in, but so important to be there in some form, and with telemedicine, it makes it quite easy to get another pair of ears in the room. 

Absolutely, you are speaking my language, Dr. Hampton, I’m telling you, because the other thing that I always recommend is for patients to have a buddy, and like you said, that may be a family member, it may be a best friend, it may be someone in your church, but I think the studies  say that something somewhere around 30 percent to 40 percent is all that we retain when we go to the doctor’s office, and so like you said, especially if you’re getting bad news, a lot of that information goes out of your brain, and so it’s so important to have a back-up person and that person can sit and take notes, and sometimes they can even remind you of some of the questions that you may have had or some of your concerns, I really, really appreciate you bringing that up.  

 I think it’s also important to take a deep breath, I find people get a cancer diagnosis and they want to just rush through everything. Well, in most cases, cancer doesn’t spread that fast, but there are a lot of decisions to make, and you really should take that time to hear all the options, may need to get a second or third opinion so that you really can make good decisions, you can’t make good decisions if you’re fearful, just can’t do it.  

How Can Breast Cancer Patients Connect to Patient-Centered Care?

How Can Breast Cancer Patients Connect to Patient-Centered Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What actions can breast cancer patients take to connect to patient-centered care? Dr. Regina Hampton shares insights about breast cancer resources that aid in supporting whole care of the patient.

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Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Something that I see in my field is that most patients and family members are operating from obviously a non-medical viewpoint, and sometimes they just don’t even know what questions to ask, how can we empower patients so that they don’t feel limited in their care, and how do we make them aware of the treatment options that are available? 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

So I think the good thing about many breast centers is that they do have what are called navigators, who really sit and hand-hold the patient through the process, and they sit and do one-on-one counseling, they try to find resources to help the patient get through treatment, they hold support groups, they really are a wealth of information and a nice go-between between the patient and the physician or the provider. So trying to find a comprehensive breast center where they have a whole program that’s dedicated to patient-centered care, I think is important. It’s also important that patients be empowered to go online, you can find what questions do I ask? Print it out and bring it to your appointment and ask those questions, and it may take a couple of visits to get those questions answered, but I think it’s important to get the questions answered. If you’re with a provider who is feeling like they don’t have time to answer or they’re blowing you off when you’re answering those questions, guess what? You can fire your doctor and go find another doctor and I don’t think we do that enough. 

I get on my patients and say, “You know what, you all scrutinize when you go buy shoes, when you go buy that cute dress, when you go buy that new car, but we should scrutinize our providers because they’re taking care of our most precious commodity, and that is our body.” 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

That is absolutely true. I have fired a couple of doctors in my day, and I recommended that some of my family members fired their doctors as well, so I really appreciate that coming from you, Dr. Hampton. And you touched on a little bit on what I’m going to ask next, and not really staying on this advocacy piece, we’ve talked about the importance of patients feeling empowered, and you shared a really good tip which I love, which is writing your questions down, it’s something that I frequently recommend to my clients and my friends and family members.  

How Can I Get the Best Breast Cancer Care No Matter Where I Live?

How Can I Get the Best Breast Cancer Care No Matter Where I Live? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can all breast cancer patients get the best treatment no matter where they live? Watch as experts Dr. Nicole Rochester and Dr. Regina Hampton discuss the importance of being comfortable with your own care. Learn about how to find a comprehensive breast center dedicated to patient-centered care and staying in the know regarding your treatment options.

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Transcript:

Nicole Rochester: 

Hello and welcome. My name is Dr. Nicole Rochester, I’m a pediatrician, health advocate and speaker, and the host for today’s Patient Empowerment Network program. Today we’re gonna be talking about how breast cancer patients can truly get the best care no matter where they live. And what does getting the best breast cancer care no matter where you live actually mean? The answer revolves around awareness, gaining access and connecting to resources at the right time, we are so happy that you have tuned in as we dig deep to understand what the barriers are, get expert advice on how to overcome them and gain clarity on your path to empowerment. Please remember, this program is not a substitute for seeking medical care, so please be sure to connect with your healthcare team on what the best options may be for you. It is my honor and privilege to be joined by Dr. Regina Hampton, Medical Director of the Breast Center at Luminous Health Doctors Community Hospital. 

Dr. Hampton has dedicated her life to helping women fight breast cancer. Thank you for joining us, Dr. Hampton.  

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

Thank you for having me. Looking forward to a great conversation. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

So we’re gonna start by discussing some of the barriers to breast cancer care. Now we know that some barriers to care include things like geographic, distance to services, financial hardships, access to transportation, and more. So my first question for you, Dr. Hampton is, what are the common barriers breast cancer patients and their families face when seeking care, what are the issues that our patients and families are facing? So 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

I think one of the big issues is having access to a breast center, so a multidisciplinary breast center, and so they tend to be in sort of in larger cities, sort of downtown, and many minority communities in these days can’t afford to live downtown, so they’re living on the outskirts, so they may… While they may have great doctors there, many times those doctors may not be up on the latest and the greatest, they may not have access to clinical trials, and so that really truly is a barrier in that sometimes our minority patients may get sub-optimal care. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

That’s very concerning. I’m glad that you brought that up, that we’re not disparaging the doctors that practice in those settings, but what you said is really important that they may not have access to some of those up-to-date clinical trials and things that we may see an academic centers, so thank you for bringing that to our attention. If we start to talk about treatment access, I want to focus on access to quality treatment, and you just kind of alluded to that, in addition to the geographical barriers, we know that sometimes patients have limited access to quality breast cancer care due to their own gaps in knowledge and studies show that patients who are knowledgeable and engaged in their healthcare received better care, so can you speak to what we have learned specifically if we talk about breast density and the various ways that patients should ask questions to their health care providers, those with dense breast tissue, what are some of the questions that they should be asking and what should patients with increased breast density know?  

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

One of the things I like to start out with letting people know is that breast density is not anything bad. It’s just normal breast tissue and when we’re younger and our breasts are a little more perky and sitting up, we tend to have more density in the breast, which is great, ’cause you’re perky and high, but mammograms are not the best when you have dense breast tissue. As we start to get more seasoned and the breast start to go south, that’s actually when mammograms get better, so it’s really important for patients to look at their report and see what they’re saying about breast density, many times they will recommend that a woman come in for additional imaging, it could be an ultrasound, it could be additional mammograms, so it’s really important that women tune into that, and if they don’t understand, to be able to call the facility and ask questions. And I think the big thing is not to be afraid if they ask you to come back in, what I tell people is, You know what? That just means somebody is looking at your mammogram, and it doesn’t mean that there’s anything bad, it means somebody was looking and saying, We might need to look a little deeper and just make sure there’s not anything going on, so trying to eliminate that fear when they see that word, density. 

And if you get a normal mammogram, but you are feeling something abnormal, you need to ask some more questions and ask for more tests. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you. That’s extremely important. Something that I see in my field is that most patients and family members are operating from obviously a non-medical viewpoint, and sometimes they just don’t even know what questions to ask, how can we empower patients so that they don’t feel limited in their care, and how do we make them aware of the treatment options that are available? 

Dr. Regina Hampton:

So I think the good thing about many breast centers is that they do have what are called navigators, who really sit and hand-hold the patient through the process, and they sit and do one-on-one counseling, they try to find resources to help the patient get through treatment, they hold support groups, they really are a wealth of information and a nice go between between the patient and the physician or the provider. So trying to find a comprehensive breast center where they have a whole program that’s dedicated to patient-centered care, I think is important. It’s also important that patients be empowered to go online, you can find what questions do I ask? Print it out and bring it to your appointment and ask those questions, and it may take a couple of visits to get those questions answered, but I think it’s important to get the questions answered. If you’re with a provider who is feeling like they don’t have time to answer or they’re blowing you off when you’re answering those questions, guess what? You can fire your doctor and go find another doctor and I don’t think we do that enough.  

I get on my patients and say, You know what, you all scrutinize when you go buy shoes, when you go buy that cute dress, when you go buy that new car, but we should scrutinize our providers ’cause they’re taking care of our most precious commodity, and that is our body. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

That is absolutely true. I have fired a couple of doctors in my day, and I recommended that some of my family members fired their doctors as well, so I really appreciate that coming from you, Dr. Hampton. And you touched on a little bit on what I’m gonna ask next, and not really staying on this advocacy piece, we’ve talked about the importance of patients feeling empowered, and you shared a really good tip which I love, which is writing your questions down, it’s something that I frequently recommend to my clients and my friends and family members. Are there some other practices or key steps that patients can take so that they have a proactive approach in their healthcare and that they can feel more confident in voicing some of these concerns when they’re communicating with their healthcare team.  

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

I think it’s important to have a support person. And that could be a family member, it could be a neighbor, it could be your best friend. Doesn’t always have to be family, sometimes it’s better to have somebody who’s not family, ’cause sometimes a family, they get you know they get emotionally involved and we get that, but I think it’s important to have another pair of ears because especially when you get a new diagnosis, you’re not gonna hear everything, and I know patients. The second somebody says, cancer, breast cancer, pancreatic cancer, they just shut down. That’s it. They’re not gonna hear. You could tell them, I have a million dollars for you, they’re not hearing you, they’re not gonna follow the directions to go get that million dollars ’cause they just have shut down, and even at that second visit, they still are just sort of… I call it the whomp, whomp, whomp. They see my mouth moving, but they’re not really hearing the words, but if they have another support person who can be there to record the conversation, who can take notes, even in the era of telemedicine, somebody can dial in to listen. I’ve been doing family meetings and people have been on the West Coast, or somebody couldn’t get off the work, but there was somebody there who could hear that information, I think that’s so important, and especially as we get more seasoned, Mom and Dad, sometimes they are a little in denial on the information that they can take in, but so important to be there in some form, and with telemedicine, it makes it quite easy to get another pair of ears in the room. 

Absolutely, you are speaking my language, Dr. Hampton, I’m telling you, ’cause the other thing that I always recommend is for patients to have a buddy, and like you said, that may be a family member, it may be a best friend, it may be someone in your church, but I think the study say that something somewhere around 30% to 40% is all that we retain when we go to the doctor’s office, and so like you said, especially if you’re getting bad news, a lot of that information goes out of your brain, and so it’s so important to have a back-up person and that person can sit and take notes, and sometimes they can even remind you of some of the questions that you may have had or some of your concerns, I really, really appreciate you bringing that up. 

So, I’m sorry, if I may just add another thing, I think it’s also important to take a deep breath, I find people get a cancer diagnosis and they wanna just rush through everything. Well, in most cases, cancer doesn’t spread that fast, but there are a lot of decisions to make, and you really should take that time to hear all the options, may need to get a second or third opinion so that you really can make good decisions, you can’t make good decisions if you’re fearful, just can’t do it. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

That is so true. Oh, I’m just loving this conversation. Thank you. That is so very important. So we know that all the barriers that we’ve talked about so far can impact or limit treatment options, and sometimes that can lead to additional complications, so we talked about patients should ask questions, and I wholeheartedly support that. As a breast surgeon, can you share with us what are some key questions that patients with breast cancer should be asking their team at the beginning of their diagnosis? 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

I think it’s important to understand the type of cancer that you have, is it non-invasive, is it invasive, it’s important to know the characteristics of the tumor, is this a hormone-driven tumor, is in a non-hormone-driven tumor or triple negative tumor? And then to ask in each step, with each discipline with surgery, finding out what are the pros and cons of a lumpectomy versus a mastectomy, when you get to the medical oncologist, finding out the pros and cons of chemotherapy versus hormone therapy, or doing both. How is that delivered? How is this gonna affect my daily life? Can I still work if I’m getting chemotherapy? What happens when I get radiation? And what are the options? So I think it’s just really important to, I’d say, go online and find a list of questions or a lot of great organizations out there that have pointed questions that you should ask each step of the way, many times the navigators will give you booklets and things to read that, have questions. And I think don’t be afraid to turn one visit into two or even three visits to make sure that you’re understanding the options. 

I’m always troubled when I see patients who maybe years ago might have had some options, but they just rushed through and decided maybe to do mastectomy and they say, You know what, had I really just stopped and thought about it, I might have made a different decision. So I think it’s very important, and I feel as the provider, the provider really should know how to read the room and really be able to pick up on the fact that you know what, she’s just not here today, and so… I’m gonna stop talking. I’m gonna send her away, let her digest this and we’re gonna come on back so we can have another conversation, and I think as providers, we have to not be afraid, and I know it’s hard ’cause time is tied. And we’re trying to see as many patients, but it’s really important to understand that every patient may need something a little bit different, and really trying to hone in on that, I think is really important as a provider, and making sure that you’re heard because a lot of times I think women of color, men of color as well, are not really heard by the doctor, and many of the doctors come in with their own biases and think, Oh well, she’s young, she’s automatically gonna want a mastectomy or she’s old, we’re gonna go ahead with a mastectomy, well, it’s a matter of really listening to the patient and seeing how you can meet in the middle, and if the patient has to get a treatment that they’re not really keen on getting, but you know it’s the right thing to do. 

Again, it’s just having that conversation and dialogue so that they understand your reasoning. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Thank you. So, Dr. Hampton, it is evident during this interview, and of course, I also know you personally and professionally, and you have certainly built a reputation of being a compassionate provider, clearly you are very committed to communicating with your patients, but the reality is not all of our colleagues are like Dr. Hampton. And so I’m thinking about something you said about really kind of pushing back, so to speak, sometimes we have to push back in a polite way with our health care providers, and you mentioned maybe the woman is being faced or the man with treatment recommendations and maybe they have some concerns about that, and I know that not every patient feels comfortable disagreeing with their doctor or even engaging in a dialogue where they wanna actually have more conversation. So many people, even in 2021, adopt a paternalistic relationship with their doctor where the doctor says, do this, and then they do it. And so is there any advice that you can give our listeners our watchers, for when they’re in that situation with their breast surgeon or their oncologist, and they’re just not feeling comfortable, they don’t feel like all of the treatment options are being presented, are there any tips that you can provide for that? 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

And in those cases, it’s important to go and get a second opinion, it doesn’t mean that you’re saying that that doctor is not a great doctor, you just may wanna hear the information. It could be the same information, just presented it in a different way. All of us kind of explain things a little bit differently, and so I think getting a second opinion is important, and if your first doctor is offended that you’re getting a second opinion, you should fire that doctor. I tell my patients like, this is not my journey, this is not about me, this is really about you. Where do you wanna go? We will help you get there, we’ll help you get the appointment, ’cause I think it’s important for patients to have that information, so feel empowered and realize you can ask questions of the doctor, we’ve changed medicine and that… It’s a patient-centered approach. It’s not me. The doctor, I know all it’s… you may come in with a new study, let’s talk about it, and if you don’t have a doctor who’s open to hearing that information, then that might not be the doctor for you. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Absolutely love that, absolutely love that. Yes, we have to have that type of relationship with our patients where we’re making joint decisions where the patient and their family members are truly brought in as members of the healthcare team. I really, really appreciate that. I wanna shift to… You mentioned this as well, you alluded to the different care sometimes that patients of color receive, so I wanna shift and talk about racial and ethnic inequities, and unfortunately, we know that with every other illness, unfortunately similarly with breast cancer, there’s a long history of women, particularly in BIPOC communities receiving disparate care, a lot of times they are not offered some of these treatment options, maybe they don’t have access to some of the breast cancer centers that you alluded to the beginning, so can you just share some information about some of the disparities that we see, in breast cancer? And then I’m curious to know how you specifically address them being a black woman breast surgeon 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

So one of the things to know is that as African-American women, we tend to get breast cancer at younger ages, and not a lot of physicians know and can recognize that, so it is very important that when a young African-American woman has a breast complaint that that’s taken seriously and worked up to make sure that we’re not missing a breast cancer. So I think it’s important again to have those conversations talking about family history, ’cause we don’t talk about family history, in our families. I’ve had a patient just come in and say, Yeah, well, grandma had a breast missing, no no nobody said cancer, well they probably should’ve said cancer, so we’ve gotta have those health conversations in our family, so I think it’s important for patients to really be their advocate because many times these young women are dismissed and thought, Oh, you’re too young, and I’ve even been kind of fooled myself by some of the young women, so knowing that younger women get breast cancer at younger ages, if you think something is going on, you need to really take that seriously. And then I think it’s also talking about the options, we do tend to get a more aggressive form of breast cancer, but the treatments have changed, and while chemotherapy may be indicated for many patients, it’s not for all patients, and so really taking that time to understand what all the options are, well, why are you recommending chemotherapy, what’s gonna be the benefit for me, what’s the survival benefit for me, what are the side effects, how this going to affect my sex life, how is this going to affect me and my relationship with my children, with work?  

So really just asking all of those important questions, I think it’s also important to ask for what you want. I don’t think we speak up enough, there was actually a study that I was looking out that show that we don’t get offered reconstruction as often as our white counterparts. The disparity is about 24% and that’s really huge. That’s important. So we really need to ask those questions and to know, well, maybe I can’t get reconstruction at this juncture, but can I get it in the future, there’s a federal law that covers all of those for all breast cancer patients, no matter what color you are, so again, it’s just asking those questions. Sometimes taking somebody and having somebody else ask the questions can be helpful. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Yeah, making somebody else the bad guys, so to speak. Absolutely, any time I have a conversation about health disparities and health and equities, honestly, I get a little angry inside because for you to share that statistic that we’re not as often offered reconstructive surgery, that is a huge part of our identity as women. Our appearance, our self-esteem, and I just wanna point out for our viewers that unfortunately, as Dr. Hampton has stated. A lot of times, these disparities are sometimes due to lack of knowledge, so Dr. Hampton mentioned that black women tend to get breast cancer at a younger age, and you need to know that if you’re seeing a breast surgeon or even an internist or oncologist who is not a person of color or who is not up-to-date on that information, they may not know those statistics, but unfortunately, there also is this bias that you’ve talked about as well, and we know that we all have bias, we are exposed regularly to negative images, negative stereotypes of African-Americans, Latino, Native Americans, and doctors are not immune to that bias and we carry those biases into the exam room, and so for people of color with breast cancer, it is particularly important that you follow these recommendations that Dr. Hampton has mentioned, and I just love that really all of them center around advocacy and speaking up for yourself and standing up for yourself. Are there any other things, Dr. Hampton in closing that you can think of specifically for patients of color, things that they can do to really protect themselves from these inequities that exist in breast cancer care. 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

I think we have to really start at the beginning and being more proactive about our screening, making sure that we’re getting those mammograms, making sure that when we get a mammogram, we’re asking for the best mammogram if  there’s new 3D technology, making sure that you get that so that we can find things at an earlier stage, and I think also we have to call it kinda throw out all the myths. We go to let them go people, we got to let them go. And I know there have been some challenges and we have had some historical issues, I think Dr. Rochester and I both agree and acknowledge that, but at some point we have to move forward and be more proactive and really knock down some of those barriers and not let some of those old things that happen hold us back from the new technologies that are available. So I think the good thing, we’re in a day and age where most early stage cancers are not a death sentence and we find them early, we can treat them early, and I think we have to just talk in our community, I’m always amazed that many black women still don’t share their stories. 

So you have women who are in the same circle and don’t realize that the person two seats down went through breast cancer and you all still go to coffee and she didn’t share her story, and now you’re facing breast cancer, you’re thinking, Wow, I’m just alone. And so I think we have to really share that, not only in our families, but we’ve got to share it with our sisters, because you never know who you’re gonna be helping through that journey. I find it interesting that there’s really a difference between how African-American women take a breast cancer diagnosis and white women take a breast cancer diagnosis, and we’re getting ready to really look at this, and I’m really excited about it ’cause I really wanna know what is it and why is there such a difference? But I think we have to not hide, we have to really share our stories and sharing your story is gonna help somebody else. 

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Absolutely, I think part of the hiding and even what you mentioned about the family history not being shared as part of this kind of myth that we have to be strong or that black women are invincible and that you we can’t be vulnerable. And you’re absolutely right, we need to talk about this in our circles, we need to talk about it with our daughters or nieces, all of our family members, so that we’re all educated and empowered.  

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

It’s funny you mentioned that ’cause that’s one of the first things I tell patients to do. I say, Look, you got to let other people take over, ’cause we got work to do, and kids got to eat peanut butter and jelly, they just got to eat some peanut butter and jelly, they’ll be all right, but you’ve got to put yourself first, and I think if we put ourselves first, put our screenings first, we’re good about getting our kids, getting them to their health appointments, we as women have got to get ourselves to our health appointments and put ourselves first, so that we can be there for our families.  

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

You just reminded me of something we as women, are really good at taking care of our kids and our spouses and other members of our family, but then we do that at the expense of ourselves, and I can say when I used to practice as a pediatrician, we were trained to address postpartum moms, and people realize early on that, Hey, okay, they may not have their postpartum visit for six weeks, but they’re taking that baby to the pediatrician in two or three days, and so we would talk with the postpartum moms about screening them for depression and things of that nature, but I never thought about… You literally just gave me this idea that maybe pediatricians should also be checking in with our patients, moms and asking them about their screening, I don’t know if they would be offended by that, but it truly takes a village, and so maybe we need to be encouraging the parents of our patients and making sure that they’re getting their regular screenings and their health maintenance as well, because you’re right, we will look out for the babies and we will put ourselves on that back burner every single time. 

Dr. Hampton, you mentioned that you in practice have seen differences in the way that your white patients handle their breast cancer diagnosis compared to your black patients, and I was working… If you’d be willing to expand on that just a little bit, what are some of those differences that you’ve seen between those two groups? 

So I noticed that in the white women that I’ve diagnosed, that they just seem to take the diagnosis and are ready to jump on board, ready to move forward with treatment and figuring out what needs to be done. And I’ve found with my African-American women, it just, it takes a little bit longer explaining, trying to get them to understand the how, the why, what we’re getting ready to do, and even with that explanation, there’s still some hesitancy. And so I’m curious to know what is that and why is that? And really hear from the patient’s perspective.  

That’s really interesting because of course, right now in the midst of the pandemic, that just mirrors what we’re seeing with COVID-19 vaccination, and I wonder if what you’re seeing with your African-American patients with breast cancer has to do with mistrust, and what we talked about just related to some of the history regarding the treatment of people of color by the health care system and racism and bias, do you think that there’s a level of mistrust of the healthcare system that may be playing into some of that reluctance that you’re seeing? 

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

Absolutely, absolutely, yes. And I’d just be curious to just hear from that patient perspective, I think a lot of those things, as we saw in the pandemic, we carry those things even though so much has changed from back in the day. So it’s gonna be interesting to hear that from the patient perspective and then to be able to hopefully share that information, and I think it could translate, as you were mentioning in to other areas of health, and see if we could then take that to a broader audience and try and make a difference in these disparities.  

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

That is awesome. Well, this has been an amazing conversation, Dr. Hampton, just to summarize, what you and I have talked about, you talked about the importance of really advocating for yourself, which as a professional health advocate, that just has me bouncing up and down in my seat, but you’ve talked about the importance of being educated and knowledgeable and looking for the information, you mentioned that there are some good resources on the internet where we can actually find questions that we should ask when we go to see our doctor after a breast cancer diagnosis, you’ve talked the importance of making sure that it’s a team effort and that if we are seeing a position who is not centering our concerns and our needs, if we don’t feel like we’re being heard, if we feel like we’re being dismissed or rushed, that we can and should consider either getting a second opinion and or firing that doctor. And getting another doctor all together, which I fully support, we’ve talked about bringing in a buddy, whether that’s your family member, your best friend, your neighbor, someone at your church, but someone that you trust and who can really sit there with you at those medical appointments and be your eyes and ears, we talked about the fact that patients with the new diagnosis of cancer, of course, are overwhelmed, they’re not hearing a lot of the information, so having that buddy to be able to ask questions on your behalf, to be able to take notes on your behalf is extremely important. 

And we also talked about some of the disparities and that unfortunately, women of color, men of color with breast cancer sometimes don’t receive the same care that they maybe do to access issues, but it also may be due to bias among the providers that are treating us or lack of knowledge about the differences and how breast cancer presents in people of color, and again, the importance having that knowledge, the importance of being educated and being empowered to speak up and to ask questions, so I just appreciate all of this advice, I’m sure that those of you watching have gotten so many pearls from Dr. Hampton, so we want to thank you again for tuning in to the Patient Empowerment Network program. Again, I’m Dr. Nicole Rochester, thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Hampton, it was a pleasure, thank you for having this conversation with me today.  

Dr. Regina Hampton: 

Thank you.