Tag Archive for: chemotherapy

Collaborating on Lung Cancer Treatment Decisions With Your Team

Collaborating on Lung Cancer Treatment Decisions With Your Team from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Lung cancer specialist Dr. Tejas Patil discusses why active communication between patients and their healthcare team is essential when making care and treatment decisions.

Dr. Tejas Patil is an academic thoracic oncologist at the University of Colorado Cancer Center focused on targeted therapies and novel biomarkers in lung cancer. Learn more about Dr. Patil, here.

See More from Thrive Lung Cancer

Related Resources:

Expert Advice for Recently Diagnosed Lung Cancer Patients

Expert Advice for Setting Lung Cancer Treatment Goals

When to Consider a Clinical Trial for Lung Cancer Treatment?


Transcript:

Katherine:

Where does shared decision-making come into play? When does it come into play?  

Dr. Patil:

It comes in always.   

So, shared decision-making is one of the most important things that patients can do with their providers. It’s really important when we think about treatments to not just be very cookie cutter and follow a recipe book for managing a patient’s lung cancer. It’s really important to individualize therapy. This is really important where patients’ values come in. What patients want to do with the time that they have, and what patients want to do with the treatment? How do they want to take certain treatments?  

So, for example, I have a patient who’s a violinist and was faced with the possibility of receiving a type of clinical trial, but this trial caused neuropathy or numbness or tingling and would essentially render this patient unable to play the violin. This was an unacceptable treatment option for this patient, even though the data would suggest that it would work.  

And that’s an example of where shared decision-making comes in because it’s more than just treating numbers. It’s really about taking care of people. 

Katherine:

Yeah. Why is active communication between the patient and lung cancer team so important? 

Dr. Patil:

Active communication is really important because it’s really one of the easiest ways for things — So, a breakdown of communication rather is a one of the easiest ways for gaps to occur in care. And when there is active communication, when a patient feels like they have an opportunity to reach their team members to connect with their providers, it builds trust. And I think trust is one of the more important elements in the management of patients. If patients can trust their provider and trust that their judgment is sound, then there is more likely to be a harmonious relationship that facilitates the shared decision-making.  

Katherine:

When a patient is in active lung cancer treatment, how are they monitored? 

Dr. Patil:

So, patients are monitored in a variety of ways. If they’re receiving chemotherapy or immunotherapy, typically a provider will see the patient with each infusion cycle. And so, depending on the length of time and the schedule of infusions, that sort of dictates how frequently we see our patients. When patients are receiving targeted therapies, specifically the pill-based forms, they can be monitored in concordance with the NCCN guidelines. And in my practice, I typically see patients every three months with imaging.  

Now, if patients are having a hard time tolerating treatment, so they’re taking their oral pills but for whatever reason, we’re having a ton of side effects, we’re trying to figure out the dose. I might see my patients more frequently. But as a standard, if patients are tolerating their targeted treatment well, their scans look good, I usually see them every three months.  

Expert Advice for Setting Lung Cancer Treatment Goals

Expert Advice for Setting Lung Cancer Treatment Goals from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Tejas Patil, a lung cancer specialist from the University of Colorado Cancer Center, shares advice on how lung cancer patients can work with their healthcare teams to set treatment goals.

Dr. Tejas Patil is an academic thoracic oncologist at the University of Colorado Cancer Center focused on targeted therapies and novel biomarkers in lung cancer. Learn more about Dr. Patil, here.

See More from Thrive Lung Cancer

Related Resources:

Expert Advice for Recently Diagnosed Lung Cancer Patients

Collaborating on Lung Cancer Treatment Decisions With Your Team

When to Consider a Clinical Trial for Lung Cancer Treatment?


Transcript:

Katherine:

When someone is considering therapy for non-small cell lung cancer, what advice do you have for setting treatment goals with their team? 

Dr. Patil:

So, non-small cell lung cancer has seen some remarkable progress in the last 20 years, but it’s still a very serious disease. One of the main expectations I set with patients is that I will guide them through this journey, but that there’s going to be a lot of changes in their day-to-day. When we look at someone who’s receiving targeted therapy, in general I upfront tell patients that the model that I’m trying to emulate with targeted therapies is very similar to HIV. I remind patients that in 2022, we still cannot cure HIV, but we can give a very effective antiviral therapies that put their viral count to zero.  

And patients with HIV now can live really full rich lives. And that’s the model that we’re trying to replicate with targeted therapies. With immunotherapies, I set patients the expectation that immunotherapy has been a major advance in the management of lung cancer. And many patients are living very full lives as a result of using immune therapies. But it’s not for everyone, and I do enforce and or rather emphasize is a better word, the concept of taking things day-by-day. I think it’s really helpful when patients have a diagnosis like this to not spiral out of control and think about all possible future outcomes, but to really work with the data that we have at the moment.  

Questions to Ask Before Participating in a Lung Cancer Clinical Trial

Questions to Ask Before Participating in a Lung Cancer Clinical Trial from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

When considering clinical trial participation, what questions should patients ask their healthcare team? Dr. Tejas Patil, a lung cancer specialist at the University of Colorado Cancer Center, shares advice on what patients need to know when considering joining a clinical trial.

Dr. Tejas Patil is an academic thoracic oncologist at the University of Colorado Cancer Center focused on targeted therapies and novel biomarkers in lung cancer. Learn more about Dr. Patil, here.

See More From Lung Cancer Clinical Trials 201

Related Resources:

When to Consider a Clinical Trial for Lung Cancer Treatment?

Lung Cancer Targeted Therapy: What Is It and Who Is It Right For?

Where Do Clinical Trials Fit Into a Lung Cancer Treatment Plan?


Transcript:

Katherine:

When considering clinical trial participation, what questions should patients be asking their healthcare team? 

Dr. Patil:

So, couple of questions that I think are really important for patients to ask their healthcare team is what is the current standard of care? So, if you’re enrolling in a clinical trial, you want to know that you’re receiving some kind of drug.  

And its expected effectiveness should be compared to what is considered the current standard of care for whatever line of therapy that is. The other practical questions that patients should be asking is what is the schedule of therapy? So, how frequently am I supposed to come in? Am I supposed to get a biopsy?  

Am I supposed to get blood draws? Most clinical trials will come with a schedule or a calendar for patients, and it’s helpful for them to look that over and see what’s being asked of them. And then the last thing is what are the known side effects? Now I always tell patients with a clinical trial, we don’t always know the side effects as part of the reason we’re doing the clinical trial.  

But if there’s some experience or if the doctors enrolled other similar patients in this trial asking what are the foreseeable side effects is actually really important. 

When to Consider a Clinical Trial for Lung Cancer Treatment

When to Consider a Clinical Trial for Lung Cancer Treatment from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

When it comes to non-small cell lung cancer treatment options, where do clinical trials fit in? Dr. Tejas Patil of the University of Colorado Cancer Center explains how he discusses clinical trial participation with patients.

Dr. Tejas Patil is an academic thoracic oncologist at the University of Colorado Cancer Center focused on targeted therapies and novel biomarkers in lung cancer. Learn more about Dr. Patil, here.

See More From Lung Cancer Clinical Trials 201

Related Resources:

Where Do Clinical Trials Fit Into a Lung Cancer Treatment Plan?

Lung Cancer Targeted Therapy: What Is It and Who Is It Right For?

Questions to Ask Before Participating in a Lung Cancer Clinical Trial


Transcript:

Katherine:

When it comes to non-small cell lung cancer treatment options, where do clinical trials fit in? 

Dr. Patil:

So, clinical trials are very important to advancing our knowledge and advancing our ability to care for patients in the best way possible. What I frequently get asked from patients is am I going to be a guinea pig for a clinical trial? And I think it’s really important to emphasize that clinical trials are comparing the best-known standard of care to something new.  

So, in effect you would never be a guinea pig. You would really just be receiving what is the best-known standard of care. And that would be compared to some novel approach to treating cancer. In general, I’m very encouraging of patients to enroll in clinical trials.  

I discuss the pros and cons of this because there are logistical concerns to keep in mind when patients are thinking about enrolling in clinical trials. If a patient enjoys traveling, and enjoys wanting to spend time with their family, that has to be balanced against the regimented schedule that some clinical trials may have.  

If they live in a rural part of the state and they have to travel three to four hours weekly, that’s a decision that has to be had and be made. But in general, if a patient is eligible and willing, I’m strongly encouraging that patients enroll in clinical trials to help further the knowledge of the field. 

Katherine:

Yeah. Are there clinical trial options available for patients who have already been treated with another therapy? 

Dr. Patil:

Yes. So, the clinical trials come in variety of forms and patients are eligible at various stages.  

So, there are some clinical trials that require patients to be newly diagnosed. And so, the trial would be the “first therapy” that they receive. But many trials actually I would say the majority of clinical trials in lung cancer are looking at patients who’ve progressed on the first line of treatment and are now facing the possibility of receiving second line treatments or further. So, that’s a common place for patients to enroll in clinical trials. 

The Latest Lung Cancer Research Updates From ASCO 2022

The Latest Lung Cancer Research Updates From ASCO 2022 from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Tejas Patil from the University of Colorado Cancer Center shares the latest news in lung cancer research and treatment from the 2022 American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO) Annual Meeting, including an update on immunotherapy.

Dr. Tejas Patil is an academic thoracic oncologist at the University of Colorado Cancer Center focused on targeted therapies and novel biomarkers in lung cancer. Learn more about Dr. Patil, here.

See More From INSIST! Lung Cancer

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Lung Cancer Research Highlights From ASCO 2022

Lung Cancer Targeted Therapy: What Is It and Who Is It Right For?

How Does Immunotherapy Treat Lung Cancer?


Transcript:

Katherine:

Researchers came together earlier this summer at the annual ASCO meeting. Were there highlights from the meeting that lung cancer patients should know about? 

Dr. Patil:

Right. So, the ASCO ’22 meeting this year had some really interesting publications. So, for me, the key publications that I thought were kind of interesting from ASCO ’22, 2022, one was a publication looking at the role of immunotherapy in patients who are – have a very high PD-L1 expression, so greater than 50 percent. And there’s – 

Katherine:

Reminds us what PDL is. 

Dr. Patil:

Oh, yes, of course. So, PD-L1 is a biomarker. It’s a predictive biomarker that lets us know whether some patients will benefit from immunotherapy. It’s also prognostic because if patients have a high PD-L1 score, they tend to do better with immunotherapy than patients who have a low PD-L1 score. 

Katherine:

Okay.  

Dr. Patil:

Now the interesting data that was presented was a pooled analysis of all the immunotherapy trials to date. And there’s been this ongoing question in lung cancer as to whether patients should get chemo with immunotherapy or whether they should just get immune therapy alone.  

And this study showed that if you have a very high PD-L1 score, it is potentially possible to just use immune therapy and forgo chemotherapy. And I thought that was a very interesting analysis.  

There’s also several other papers that came out as well. Mostly there was a lot of interest in something called circulating tumor DNA. So, let me just take a step back. This is a type of molecule that can be detected in the blood that can help determine whether cancer is present in your blood or not. And there was a lot of publications at ASCO looking at using a concept called minimal residual disease.  

So, when we treat patients with early-stage lung cancer, a big question is how do we know they’re cured or not cured? And a lot of abstracts and publications this ASCO were looking at this concept of minimal residual disease. So, if I can detect some cancer in your blood after you’ve had cured curative therapies, we’re – we have a problem because there’s still cancer around and we’re detecting it in the blood.  

And I think this type of approach is going to really inform how we think about early-stage lung cancer management in the future. 

What Testing Should Take Place After Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Treatment?

What Testing Should Take Place After Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Treatment? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

It’s well-known that patients should undergo testing before choosing lung cancer therapy, but what testing should take place following treatment? Lung cancer specialist Dr. Tejas Patil, from the University of Colorado Cancer Center, discusses the role of testing after treatment.

Dr. Tejas Patil is an academic thoracic oncologist at the University of Colorado Cancer Center focused on targeted therapies and novel biomarkers in lung cancer. Learn more about Dr. Patil, here.

See More From INSIST! Lung Cancer

Related Resources:

How Does Biomarker Testing Impact Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Care?

Lung Cancer Targeted Therapy: What Is It and Who Is It Right For?

Why Do Lung Cancer Patients Need Molecular Testing Before Choosing Treatment?


Transcript:

Katherine:

We know that patients should undergo testing before choosing therapy, but what testing should take place following treatment? 

Dr. Patil:

That’s a really good question. And it’s a complex question depending on the type of treatment that the patient is receiving. So, broadly speaking in lung cancer, we’ve separated the field into two types of treatments.  

Patients with lung cancers will get molecular testing at the onset, right? When they’re diagnosed to look for what’s called a driver oncogene. So, these are mutations that can be targeted with pill-based treatments. And if patients have these mutations, there’s about 10 of these right now and several in development, then the patients can receive a targeted therapy.

However, if they don’t have these mutations, then the standard of care right now is some kind of chemotherapy with immunotherapy. Now, the question asked was what kind of testing do you do after diagnosis? And that really depends on which camp you’re in. So, if you’re in the targeted therapy camp, my general practice has been to repeat molecular testing upon progression. The reason is that patients who are receiving targeted therapies typically evolved some kind of resistance to targeted therapy.  

Broadly speaking, you can categorize these as on target or off target resistance, but the major reason for doing repeat molecular testing is to understand a mechanism of resistance and then hopefully develop a new treatment with that knowledge. Now for the camp that doesn’t receive targeted therapies, let’s say they receive chemotherapy and immunotherapy, there it gets a little bit more nuanced.  

And if there is a role for repeating a biopsy and looking for dynamic changes in the patient’s cancer, but it is not routine and should be done with consultation with a thoracic oncologist. And really the idea here is that if patients who are on chemo immunotherapy progress, any additional molecular testing should really help inform what the next line of treatment will be and sometimes that can be a clinical trial.  

How Does Biomarker Testing Impact Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Care?

How Does Biomarker Testing Impact Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Biomarker testing identifies certain genes, proteins, or other molecules present in a biologic sample. Dr. Tejas Patil, of University of Colorado Cancer Center, discusses how results from these tests can be used to determine a treatment approach for non-small cell lung cancer (NSCLC).

Dr. Tejas Patil is an academic thoracic oncologist at the University of Colorado Cancer Center focused on targeted therapies and novel biomarkers in lung cancer. Learn more about Dr. Patil, here.

See More From INSIST! Lung Cancer

Related Resources:

Why Do Lung Cancer Patients Need Molecular Testing Before Choosing Treatment?

Lung Cancer Targeted Therapy: What Is It and Who Is It Right For?

What Testing Should Take Place After Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Treatment?


Transcript:

Katherine:

Biomarker testing is important prior to choosing therapy for non-small cell lung cancer. What is this test and how long does it take to get results? 

Dr. Patil:

That is a great question. So, a biomarker is a biological molecule found in blood or other body fluids or tissues that is a sign of a normal or an abnormal process.  

Or let me reframe that as it represents having some kind of medical condition or disease. Now, it’s a very broad definition. Basically, a biomarker can be used to see how well the body responds to a treatment for a disease or a condition. And when we look at it from a genetic perspective, sometimes the term that you’ll see is a molecular marker or a signature molecule.  

So, these are terms that are sort of interchangeable with biomarkers. But the role of a biomarker is to help ascertain how well the body responds to a certain medical intervention, broadly speaking. 

Katherine:

Okay. What question should a patient ask their doctor about test results? 

Dr. Patil:

So that’s a very complicated question, and I will do my best to answer it succinctly. So, my personal view is that for any test to be meaningful, it should impact medical decision-making in some very concrete way.  

Specifically, with biomarkers, the result should either be prognostic or predictive and I’ll define what those terms are. So, a predictive biomarker is one that helps determine if a certain therapy will be effective. So, I’m going to use lung cancer as an example. In EGFR mutation in non-small cell lung cancer allows a doctor to prescribe an EGFR targeted therapy called osimertinib (Tagrisso). Therefore, in this example, the EGFR mutation is predictive.  

It opens the door for this targeted option that would otherwise not have been available if the patient did not have this EGFR mutation. A prognostic marker is a little different. This is the type of marker that helps categorize risk. So, in the same example I used earlier, that patient may have an EGFR mutation.  

They can also have a different mutation called TP53. Now this TP53 mutation doesn’t influence therapy. It’s not targetable, but it does influence risk.  

And so, there’s been a lot of emerging data to show that patients with TP53 mutations have worse outcomes on targeted therapies than patients without TP53. And in that case, that mutation is what we call a prognostic biomarker. 

Thriving With Prostate Cancer: What You Should Know About Care and Treatment

What does it mean to thrive with advanced prostate cancer? Dr. Rana McKay discusses the goals of advanced prostate cancer care, reviews current and emerging treatment options, and shares advice for playing an active role in healthcare decisions.
 
Dr. Rana McKay is a medical oncologist at UC San Diego Health and an associate professor in the Department of Medicine at the UC San Diego School of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. McKay, here.
 
 

Katherine Banwell:    

Hello and welcome. I’m Katherine Banwell, your host for today’s program. Today we’re going to focus on how patients can aim to live and thrive with advanced prostate cancer. We’re going to discuss treatment goals and the role patients can play in making key decisions. Before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Well let’s meet our guests today. Joining me is Dr. Rana McKay. Dr. McKay, welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?

Dr. Rana McKay:     

Of course. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Rana McKay and I’m a GU medical oncologist at the University of California San Diego.  

Katherine Banwell:    

Excellent. Thanks so much for taking time out of your schedule to join us. Since this webinar is part of PEN’s Thrive series, I’d like to ask you from your perspective, what do you think it means to thrive with advanced prostate cancer?

Dr. Rana McKay:        

That’s a very good question and I think that’s what um, a lot of patients want to actually you know, do in their day-to-day existence. I think it means that they are combatting their disease. They’re taking a proactive role in um, you know, uh tackling um, their illness. They um, are uh, attentive to sort of doing the activities of daily living that really bring them joy and satisfaction and happiness and setting up a treatment plan that is a mutually agreed upon treatment plan with their clinician. That they have buy-in on. That their caregivers have buy-in on. That allows them to do the things that they love to do while keeping their cancer at bay.

Katherine Banwell:    

Okay. Thank you for sharing your insights. Before we move onto treatment, I mentioned that this webinar is focused on advanced prostate cancer. What does it mean for prostate cancer to be considered advanced?

Dr. Rana McKay:        

So, generally what that means is that the cancer may have spread outside of the body – outside of prostate to other parts of the body such as the bone or the lymph nodes which is a common location where prostate cancer um, uh, can go. Additionally, it may mean that the cancer may have come back after um, it was initially treated with an intent um, to cure um, a patient. But then you know the PSA demonstrates um, that you know, there’s a rise in the PSA and the cancer is recurrent.

Katherine Banwell:    

As you mentioned uh, appropriate treatment is part of thriving. We’re going to talk about treatment approaches. But first, how would you define treatment goals?

Dr. Rana McKay:       

So, you know when I look at defining treatment goals it’s focusing on what do we wanna achieve from the standpoint of the cancer? Meaning, you know, what are objectives that are associated with patients living longer?

And then what are objectives um and strategies that we can set-up to make sure that patients are living better? So, I think the treatments are basically set-up to basically help you achieve those two goals. What can we do to help you live longer and feel better?

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah. Well, let’s walk through the types of treatments that are used today to treat advanced prostate cancer. What are the treatment causes and who are they appropriate for? Let’s start with surgery, for instance.

Dr. Rana McKay:       

So, surgery is something that’s utilized uh, early on when people are diagnosed with cancer. It tends to be utilized when the cancer has not necessarily spread to other parts of the body but is still localized within the prostate itself or maybe there’s just some little bit of breakthrough in the capsule. Sometimes it can be used in people who have involvement of the prostate cancer in the lymph nodes. But it’s generally not utilized in people who have cancer that’s spread to other parts of the body.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. What about other treatment classes? What are they?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

So, radiation can also be utilized. Radiation is a treatment modality that can be used for people with localized disease and um, also it can be utilized for people with advanced disease to treat the primary tumor.

Additionally radiation therapy can be used to help treat symptoms um, if there’s a bone lesion causing pain or other areas that are causing discomfort. Sometimes radiation to those areas um, can um, mitigate pain. When I think about the treatment classes for prostate cancer um, they generally break down into several categories. The first um, um, most predominant category is the hormonal therapy category. Hormonal therapies are really the backbone of treatment for men with prostate cancer and they include the more traditional hormonal therapies that really work to just drop testosterone. So, just LRH – L – LRHA agonists and antagonists and also, they include um, newer hormonal therapies in the form of pills that really target um, strategies at also affecting testosterone function and testosterone production. Another class is also the chemotherapy agents. There are two FDA approved chemotherapies for prostate cancer that are life prolonging and um, uh there’s a certain role for uh, chemotherapy for people with advanced disease.

There’s also immunotherapy that can be utilized. Um, there’s a um, uh, vaccine therapy that’s actually one of the first uh, FDA vaccines for any solid tumor that’s proving in prostate cancer that can be utilized. There’s also radio pharmaceuticals.

So, these are specific agents that deliver um, a bits of radiation to specific areas. Whether it be radium 223 which targets the bone or the newest radio pharmaceutical, which was approved called uh, lutecium PSMA that um, basically delivers beta-radiation to little – sites of PSMA expressing cancer cells and the last category that I would highlight is the category of targeted therapy. There are uh, two targeted therapies for prostate cancer for patients who have like genomic alterations. Those include the drugs olaparib and rucaparib. So, as you can see there’s a wide spectrum of drugs that can be utilized to really keep this disease at bay.  

Katherine Banwell:    

Dr. McKay, for these treatment classes, what can patients expect as far as side effects?

Dr. Rana McKay:       

Absolutely. So, I think side effects – discussing side effects is a really important part of the discussion for selecting any one given therapy and in general, I think um, when we talk about the hormonal therapies one of the side effects that people can get is largely fatigue.

But a lot of the symptoms are related to low testosterone. And so, that may mean muscle loss, bone loss, um, you know, uh, hot flashes, um, fatigue, decrease libido, um… So, you those are things to consider with hormonal therapies. With the chemotherapies, I think the big ones we worry about are fatigue, risk of infection, um blood counts dropping a little bit, people getting tired, numbness and tingling in the hands and feet can occur, some swelling in the legs are common side effects for chemotherapy agents. With regards to the um, uh, immunotherapy with the vaccine therapy, it actually tends to be a fairly well tolerated treatment. Maybe some fatigue, rarely some dizziness or some lip – lip sensitivity, numbness with the – the process of kind of collecting the cells. But it actually tends to be fairly well tolerated.

The um, targeted therapies can cause fatigue. They can cause the blood counts to drop and can impact bone marrow function. There can be sometimes GI side effects. Nausea, um, rash, um and then the immune therapy, the pembrolizumab, that is FDA approved sometimes that can cause immune related adverse events which is kind of over activation of the immune system developing you know, what I’d call it as the itises. Colitis or pneumonitis which is inflammation of various organs and symptoms related to wherever that may be.

Katherine Banwell:    

When should a patient consider a clinical trial as a treatment option?

Dr. Rana McKay:        

So, I generally think that a patient should consider a clinical trial at almost every juncture that a – a clinical decision is being made. I think sometimes there’s this misperception that, “Oh. Clinical trials should only be utilized when I don’t have any other options.” Where in fact I would say clinical trials should be an option to discuss every single time a treatment is being changed. Um, because you know the ultimately the goal is to make sure patients are as I said, living longer and living better and um, you know, making sure that clinical trials are an option on the table at every juncture is really a key step in that process.

Katherine Banwell:    

What are the benefits of being part of a clinical trial?

Dr. Rana McKay:       

So, I think there’s a lot of benefits. I think um, you know, uh for patients with advanced disease it may provide access to drugs that they otherwise not necessarily have access to.

Um, so the standard of care therapies you know, we can prescribe those at any juncture. They’re standard of care. But clinical trials um, really offer an opportunity to experiment with a uh, uh another agent um, and doesn’t necessarily take away from the standard of care options.

I think um, the other thing is you know, I think a lot of patients with advanced prostate cancer, they um, they – want to give back to the community. They want to leave a legacy. They want to contribute to the science. They wanna be a part of that mission to make tomorrow better than today for men with prostate cancer and I think participating in clinical trials can really help achieve that goal. Um, and also benefit the individual as well.

Katherine Banwell:    

What about emerging treatments? Are there any that patients should know about?

Dr. Rana McKay:       

Absolutely. So, there’s a lot of treatments that I think are currently undergoing extensive testing.

There’s um, additional uh, targeted therapies um, for example CDK46 inhibitors that are being tested broadly in the um, um hormone resistant space and the newly diagnosed setting. Um, there’s um, also AKT inhibitors. There are other targeted therapies that are being tested. There’s novel hormonal treatments that target resistant pathways like the antigen receptor degraders. There’s a slew of immunotherapy options um, cell therapy, bi-specific antibodies that are also being tested. So, there’s a lot of really exciting and novel treatments that are looking at overcoming resistance for people with advanced disease.

Katherine Banwell:    

Hm. Do you recommend that men with advanced prostate cancer get the COVID vaccines and the boosters?

Dr. Rana McKay:       

Very good question and in general, I do recommend the vaccines. Especially for patients with advanced disease and those that are on therapy. Um, several studies have demonstrated that patients with cancer are at increased risk of having complications related to COVID and particularly patients that are on active treatment with cancer are at even greater riskSo, um, I would definitely recommend vaccination as a preventative strategy to prevent really complications related to COVID.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. Thanks, Dr. McKay. That’s helpful information. Since prostate cancer affects men differently. Let’s review what factors could impact which treatment is right for their individual disease. How about we start with symptoms?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

So, yeah. I mean absolutely. I think symptoms are definitely something that plays into effect.

Um, sometimes when patients are first diagnosed, they may not have symptoms. But, you know, boney pain. Um, Symptoms of urinary obstruction. You know, there’s specific um, uh, treatments and uh, strategies that we can deploy to help with those kinds of things. Um, you know other factors that I think I – we take into account when we’re making decisions about which agent should any one patient receive is where are there sites of metastases? Um, is there disease just in the bones and lymph nodes or are there other organs involved? Um, what’s the genomic make-up of the tumor? Um, there are certain treatments that we would utilize if someone had a certain specific you know, uh genetic make-up for their tumor. You know, other things that are really important are what kind of drugs has the patient seen before or has that tumor been exposed to? Because that also helps us strategize for what to give them in the future.

Katherine Banwell:    

Do you take into consideration the patient’s comorbidities and their age and overall health? Things like that? 

Dr. Rana McKay: 

Absolutely. Yeah. I think we need to absolute take that in account. I think – I think age is one thing. But I think functional status is um, just as – as important as the actual number itself because people are very different regarding um,  the things that they can do at various uh, age limits and so, that absolutely takes into account weighing the side effects of any given therapy and how that may interact with someone’s existing comorbidities and it may be something that we have to work with a team of other doctors to basically make sure that there is comprehensive, well-rounded care for any one patient.

For example, some therapies may increase the risk of hyper-tension or increase the risk of volume overload and so, if somebody has issues with that already we may have them see a cardiologist so we can make sure that um, you know, we’re kind of addressing the totality of the patient experience. 

Katherine Banwell:    

What do you mean by volume overload?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

Uh, volume overload I mean if they’ve got too much fluid on board. So, maybe if they have heart failure or something like that and we have a therapy that’s gonna cause them to retain fluid. And so then, we would have to work with a cardiologist to make sure that they don’t run into issues.

Katherine Banwell:    

Right. That makes sense. What are the common symptoms of advanced prostate cancer?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

So, um, you know, I would probably say there common symptoms and just because somebody has these symptoms doesn’t mean they have prostate cancer. But fatigue, weight loss, urinary symptoms, trouble urinating, you know, benign prostatic atrophy is one of the most common symptoms or most common conditions in men and um –

Katherine Banwell:    

What does that mean?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

Um, so sort of benign enlargement of the prostate. Um, you know that’s a common phenomenon that happens with age and it can affect somebody’s ability to urinate.

Um, but um you know uh, sometimes with prostate cancer it can also impact somebody’s ability to urinate. Their stream, their flow. Um, they may have rectal discomfort. They may feel tired, boney pains. Usually, I tell patients you know persistent progressive symptoms that are just you know not going away, not getting better. Those need to be looked at by a physician to evaluate further. 

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. You mentioned genetic mutations. Should patients advocate for genetic testing if they haven’t had it already?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

Um, it all depends on uh, what kind of uh, where they are in the process. So, for most men who have advanced disease, they should undergo genetic testing of both their tumor, and it is also recommended to do hereditary testing for patients who have advanced disease. Um, and that information may not necessarily be utilized at the exact time that the test is done.

But it may be utilized down the road for treatment options at a later time point. Um…

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. Once a man is undergoing treatment for advanced prostate cancer how are they monitored to see if it’s actually working?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

So, a lot of ways. So, one is by just you know, visiting with the patient. Making sure that their symptoms are in check. Making sure that they’re not developing new um, aches or pains that are worrisome. It’s by checking their labs um, in addition to their organ and bone marrow function. We would check their PSA. Um, and PSA isn’t the whole story. But it is one factor that contributes to us determining whether treatment may or may not be working. It’s also doing intermittent scannings. So, um, you know, uh, CT scans of the organs, of the lymph nodes. Bone scan and now we actually have PSMA based imaging which can be integrated to help um, assess uh, where the disease is and um, not yet being utilized to assess whether something is working because we haven’t really defined the criteria there.

But um, it can be utilized as well.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. Dr. McKay, how would you define precision or personalized medicine and how close are we getting to personalized medicine for advanced prostate cancer?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

Yeah. So, what I – how I define it is the right treatment for the right patient at the right time. It’s basically you know, based off of somebody’s genomic profile of their tumor and ideally that genomic profiling is done close to the time that that treatment is being initiated. So, within six months or twelve months of somebody starting a given therapy we understand the genetic make-up of the tumor. The tumor has you know, for example a BRCA1 alteration and we know that olaparib is a drug that can be utilized and has demonstrated efficacy for people that have that mutation and then we would use that agent. So, it’s basically trying to um, personalize therapy based on the genomic information of that tumor.

And um, I think we are getting there. There are actually trials now that are being launched that are bio-marker driven trials with bio-marker selected therapies for patients based on -off of not just DNA but also RNA to help with um, allocating a given therapy.   

Katherine Banwell:    

What do you feel are the common obstacles to care for a man with advanced prostate cancer?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

So, I think that there can be a lot of obstacles with regards to um, you know, comprehensiveness of the care. You know it’s one thing to sort of, “Okay. This is the next therapy to treat you with.” But there’s a lot of side effects that can happen with any one given therapy and ensuring that there is open dialogue between um, uh a man and his – his clinician and caregivers.

You know, I think that that can sometimes be a hurdle. Like that open communication can be so important. It’s not just about picking the next best drug but it’s ensuring that there’s sort of comprehensiveness in care. I think a lot of um, you know, patients they may not necessarily know and they’re really kind of dependent on their clinician to sort of go through the compendia of options that may be available and why one may be better than the other for any one given scenario. So, I think it’s like that shared decision-making, that open dialogue.

Um, you know, I think also thinking about advocacy networks, I think um, you know, I can say things until I’m blue in the face like this is what being on ADT feels like. But I think sometimes actually connecting with another patient whose gone through the same experience who can kind of weigh in from the patient perspective like what it actually feels like, I think is not to say a hurdle. But I think we can do a better job as a medical community of making those networking connections available for patients so they can be a part of a broader community of individuals like them going through the same thing they’re going through.

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah. It helps to know that there are others going through exactly what you’re going through or similar symptoms. We received a patient question prior to the program. What is the difference between my PSA level and Gleason score?     

Dr. Rana McKay: 

Yeah. So, very good question. So, Gleason score is something that is determined based off a pathologic assessment. So, it’s basically you know, a biopsy is done from the prostate or the – the surgical specimen from the removal of the prostate is looked at under the microscope and a Gleason score is based off what something looks like underneath a microscope and ideally, a Gleason score is given really only for the prostate – for tissue derived from the prostate.

So, if somebody has a bone biopsy for example or a lymph node biopsy, they’re not going to necessarily get a glycine score per se. It’s been – been validated from the prostate itself and ideally, also, an untreated prostate. So, if somebody has you know had radiation therapy and then has a biopsy, the Gleason score there is – there should not necessarily be a notation of what a Gleason score is. It’s really an untreated prostate. Now PSA is prostate specific antigen and it’s a protein that’s made from the prostate gland and it’s found in circulation. PSA doesn’t hurt any – the actual you know, molecule itself is – is innocuous. It doesn’t hurt anything. It’s just a marker of um, sometimes can be a marker of burden of disease in prostate cancer and I think sometimes we as clinicians do you know, you know a disservice to some patients because I think we fixate – we can fixate a lot on PSA.

But PSA is not the whole story and it’s one factor of several factors that we take into account in determining whether someone needs treatment or whether a treatment is working or not working.

Katherine Banwell:    

Why should patients feel confident using their voice in partnering in their care? Do you have any advice?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

Um, I mean it’s – it’s absolutely important for patients to share their perspective and for there to be shared decision making at every single juncture along the way. Even around decisions to not treat. So, you know, I think it’s a lot of um – there’s a lot of grays in prostate cancer and a lot of art in deciding what treatment to do and at what specific time and for any given patient given the values that that patient brings to the table, they may come back with a different decision compared to another patient. So, without the patient you know voicing what their values are it’s impossible to make a treatment decision.

So, it is so critically important to have that open communication with your clinician.

Katherine Banwell:    

So, in addition to that – in conjunction with that, should men diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer consider a second opinion or consulting with a specialist?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

I think it’s always a great idea to get a second opinion. Um, you know, I think that um, you know, it will only empower individuals um, when they seek sort of a second opinion to either confirm um what their physician has already told them and then they have reassurance that they’re on the right path or maybe provide some new um, novel insights that they can take into consideration and just think about how that could be applied to them. So, you know, I think that a second opinion is always really valuable.

I will balance that by saying um, sometimes it can be detrimental if there’s lots of opinions because I will say that coming to a consensus when there’s lots of different specialists that are involved, and everybody makes the soup a little bit differently –

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah.

Dr. Rana McKay: 

Sometimes that I think that can actually um, hurt patients in being able to actually come to a decision because then they’re like, “I don’t know what decision to make. This person said do this. This person said do that. This person said do that.” Um, and so that can sometimes be um, detrimental. But a second opinion, I do always encourage it. I do always value it. But I always want the patient to bring it back to me so I can share with them and discuss, “Okay. I understand. This is why x said X-Y-Z. This still aligns. This still doesn’t.” They need a quarterback like you know, it’s one thing to sort of get second opinions. But I think every man with prostate cancer should have a quarterback that’s driving their care and advocating for them.

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah. How can patients find specialists near them?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

So, um, I will say that they are national comprehensive cancer institutes. They’re all across the country in rural areas and not. I think um, you know finding the closest NCI designated comprehensive cancer center close to you is probably a good place to start and identifying who is seeing um patients with genetic urinary malignancies or prostate cancer at that facility is a good place. I think the prostate cancer foundation is an excellent advocacy group for patients with prostate cancer. They have a tremendous amount of resources um, to help connect patients with um, clinicians, and other resources um, in their journey with cancer.

Katherine Banwell:    

How can caregivers best support their loved ones?

Dr. Rana McKay: 

So, I think being present is one of the first things. Um, you know, I think that uh, um, you know, uh, being you know, supportive, being present.

Like you know, attending the doctor – doctor’s visits. It doesn’t necessarily have to be every single doctor visit. But those critical doctor visits where um, you know clinical decisions are being made. I think it’s really important also um, to there may be some hesitancy on the part of patients to sometimes be open or vocal with their clinicians about various aspects of what they may be experiencing at home, or they may be undermining or sort of – I think caregivers can help in sort of giving an outsider’s perspective. “Well, this is how things are going at home,” and “You know this is how things are,” and “These are the things that we value and we’re gonna go on this family trip,” and “This is a big-ticket item for us. So, how can we work around planning a treatment plan that allows us to do that?” So, I think it’s really important.

Katherine Banwell:    

ASCO was held in June. Is there news from the conference that patients should know about?

Dr. Rana McKay:        

Yeah. So, I think some of the biggest therapies in prostate cancer that was one of the newest therapies that was just FDA approved is um, Lutetium PSMA. It’s um, a radioligand therapy that targets specifically PSMA expressing cells. Um It delivers a little bit of beta radiation to those cells. Um, that therapy was approved this past Spring and there highlights at ASCO about the utility of this therapy. Um, and again, there’s a series of novel compounds that are being tested in prostate cancer not yet ready for prime time but a lot of exciting work that’s being done um, to try to get new drugs that work better for our patients.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. Going back to ASCO and new developments, how can patients stay informed about research developments like – like these that happen at ASCO.

Dr. Rana McKay:

So, very – very good. I think there’s a lot of networks for people with prostate cancer. I think one like I mentioned, the prostate cancer foundation it’s a wonderful community. Um, that really focuses on making sure that up to date, you know, uh, evidence-based data is uh, distributed to patients in a manner that is – that makes sense. That’s there’s not a lot of medical jargon and so I think that the PCF is really a wonderful resource. Uh, ASCO itself also has um, you know patient interfacing you know, materials through their website.

American Cancer Society does as well. Um, the American Cancer Society can also be a wonderful resource for patients that are newly diagnosed or going through treatment.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm. Before we end the program, Dr. McKay, I wanted to ask. Are you hopeful that men can thrive with advanced prostate cancer?

Dr. Rana McKay:       

Oh, I am absolutely hopeful that they can thrive. I mean that is um, the name of the game and I think there’s a lot of um, uh, people who can look to for motivation.

Um, uh, to basically show that despite treatment, despite having advanced disease patients can thrive and continue doing all of the things that they love that give them joy and satisfaction in their lives.

Katherine Banwell:    

It seems like there’s a lot of progress and hope in the field which is good. Dr. McKay thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.

Dr. Rana McKay:       

Of course. My pleasure.

Katherine Banwell:    

And thank you to all of our partners. To learn more about prostate cancer and to get tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks so much for joining us today.

What Questions Should Patients Ask About Joining a Clinical Trial?

What Questions Should Patients Ask About Joining a Clinical Trial? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Before participating in a clinical trial, what questions should you ask? Dr. Pauline Funchain of Cleveland Clinic shares critical questions patients should ask their healthcare team when considering a clinical trial.

Dr. Pauline Funchain is a medical oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic. Dr. Funchain serves as Director of the Melanoma Oncology Program, co-Director of the Comprehensive Melanoma Program, and is also Director of the Genomics Program at the Taussig Cancer Institute of the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Funchain, here.

Katherine Banwell:

If a trial is recommended, what questions should a patient ask about the trial itself? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

Yeah. I mean, I think when it comes to that, I think that the important things to ask, really, are what are the drugs involved, and what your doc thinks about those drugs. 

I think, what is the alternative? So, again, we were talking about option A, B, and C. Is this option A of A, B, and C, or option C of A, B, and C? Are there ones like Cindi mentioned, where if you don’t do it at this point, you’re going to lose the opportunity, because you started on something else. Because a lot of trials require either that a person has never gone through therapy, and so this is sort of first line trial. But some trials are you have to be at the second thing that you’ve been on.  

So, these are the things that matter to know. Are you going to lose an opportunity if you didn’t do it now, or can you do it later, and what is the preference? And I think, practically speaking, a patient really wants to know what is the schedule? Can I handle this? How far away do I live from the place that is giving this trial? 

What are the locations available? Because if there’s a trial and you have to come in every two weeks, or come in four times in two weeks, and then once every month after that, that makes a big difference depending on where you live, what season it is, weather, that kind of stuff.  

And I think the question that you don’t really have to ask, but a lot of people ask, is about cost. So, medical care nowadays is complex, it costs money when you don’t expect it to, it doesn’t cost money when it’s – you just don’t know what will and what won’t. Financial toxicity is something that we really care about. Every center is really trying its best, but it’s hard to do in this type of environment. So, people then get concerned that clinical trials might be even more complex.  

I think clinical trials are much less complex in that way, because a lot more of it is covered by the sponsor, whatever that sponsor is, whether that sponsor is the National Institutes of Health, as a grant, or a pharmaceutical company.  

But, in general, a clinical trial really should cost the same or less than whatever the standard medical care is; that’s the way they’re built. So, many, many people ask us that question, but I think that is the question that probably is less important than what are the drugs, what does your doc think about this, are you going to lose an opportunity if there’s a different sequence, and does this fit into your life and your schedule, and people who can give you rides.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah, right.  Are there resources available to assist with the financial impact of a clinical trial? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

There are not specific resources for clinical trials; there are specific resources for patients in general, though. There are things like helping with utility bills sometimes, sometimes with rides, I think a lot of clinical trials do pay for things like parking. In general, many trials themselves have extra financial support in them. There was a trial I remember that paid for airfare and lodging, because there were only five centers in the country, and so we had people fly in, and the whole thing was covered. 

It depends on the trial. But in terms of outside of trials, there are always patient advocacy groups and things like that, where certain things can get covered. But often, the types of things that get covered by those groups are the same things that get covered with normal medical care. 

How to Find a Clinical Trial That’s Right for You

How to Find a Clinical Trial That’s Right for You from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

If you are interested in participating in a clinical trial, where do you start? Dr. Pauline Funchain of Cleveland Clinic shares resources for patients on where to find and access a clinical trial that’s right for them.

Dr. Pauline Funchain is a medical oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic. Dr. Funchain serves as Director of the Melanoma Oncology Program, co-Director of the Comprehensive Melanoma Program, and is also Director of the Genomics Program at the Taussig Cancer Institute of the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Funchain, here.

Katherine Banwell:

So, if a patient is interested in joining a clinical trial, where should they start? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

They can start anywhere. There are many places to start. I think their oncologist is a really, really good place to start. I would say an oncologist, depending on their specialties, will have a general grasp of trials, or a really specific grasp of trials. 

I would say that the folks who have the most specific grasp on trials – what is available, what isn’t available, what’s at their center versus the next state over center – are the academic medical centers; the ones that are sort of university centers, places like the Cleveland Clinic where the docs are specialized by the type of cancer. That group of folks will have the best grasp on what’s current, what’s available. 

And so, Cindi, your friend referred you. many people do say that. Just go to whatever your nearest university center is, just because there’s a lot more specialization in that sense. But I think it’s the age of the Internet, so people can look online. Clinicaltrials.gov is a fantastic place to look. It is not as up to date, I think, as something you can get directly from a person at a medical center, but it is a great place to start.  

There are many advocacy groups and websites that will point people to trials. I mean, there are Facebook groups and things, where people will chat about trials. But I think the detail is better at a site like clinicaltrials.gov, and even better with a cancer-specific oncologist at a academic medical center. 

Understanding Common Clinical Trial Terminology

Medical terminology can be confusing and is especially important to understand when reviewing information to learn about a clinical trial. Dr. Pauline Funchain of Cleveland Clinic explains common terms and phrases to help patients better understand the clinical trial process.
 
Dr. Pauline Funchain is a medical oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic. Dr. Funchain serves as Director of the Melanoma Oncology Program, co-Director of the Comprehensive Melanoma Program, and is also Director of the Genomics Program at the Taussig Cancer Institute of the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Funchain, here.

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Funchain, are there common clinical trial terms that patients should know? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

Yeah, there are trial terms that people hear all the time, and probably should know a little bit about. But I think the most common thing people will hear with trials are the type of trial it is, so Phase I, Phase II, Phase III. The important things to know about that are essentially, Phase I is it’s a brand-new drug, and all we’re trying to do is look for toxicity. Although we’ll always on the side be looking for efficacy for whether that drug actually works, we’re really looking to see if the drug is safe. 

A Phase II trial is a trial where we’re starting to look at efficacy to some degree, and we are still looking at toxicity. And then in Phase III is, we totally understand the toxicity, and we are seeing promise, and what we really want to do is see if this should become a new standard. So, that would be the Phase I, II, and III. 

Another couple of terms that people hear a lot about are eligibility criteria, or inclusion criteria. So, those are usually some set of 10 to 30 things that people can and can’t be. So, usually trials only allow certain types of cancer, and so that would be an inclusion criteria, but it will exclude other types of cancers. Most trials, unfortunately, exclude pregnant women. That would be an exclusion criteria.  

So, these are things that, at the very beginning of a trial, will allow someone to enter, or say, “You’re not in the safe category, we should not put you on a trial.” Many trials are randomized, so people will hear this a lot. Randomization.  

So, a lot of times, there is already a standard of care. When there’s already a standard of care, and you want to see if this drug is at least the same or better, then on that trial, there will be two different arms; a standard of care arm and experimental arm.  

And then in order to be fair, a randomized trial is a flip of a coin. Based on a electronic flip of a coin – nobody gets to choose; not the doc, not the patient. On that type of trial, you’ll either get what you would normally get, standard of care, or something new. So, that’s a randomized trial. Not all trials are randomized, but some are. And those are the things that people will run into often. 

You’ve Chosen to Participate In a Clinical Trial: What Are Next Steps?

You’ve Chosen to Participate in a Clinical Trial: What Are Next Steps? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What is it like to participate in a clinical trial? Dr. Pauline Funchain of Cleveland Clinic explains what to expect when joining a clinical trial and colorectal cancer survivor Cindi Terwoord shares her personal experience.

Dr. Pauline Funchain is a medical oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic. Dr. Funchain serves as Director of the Melanoma Oncology Program, co-Director of the Comprehensive Melanoma Program, and is also Director of the Genomics Program at the Taussig Cancer Institute of the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Funchain, here.
 
Cindi Terwoord is a colorectal cancer survivor and patient advocate. Learn more about Cindi, here.

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Funchain, once a patient like Cindi decides to participate in a trial, what happens next? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

So, there is a lot, actually, that happens. So, there is a lead-in period to a trial. So, once you decide, it’s not like you can start tomorrow on a trial drug. What happens really, there’s a whole safety lead-in that we call an enrollment period, where there’s a long checklist of making sure that a person is healthy, and there’s nothing – no organ or anything in particular – where we would be worried about this particular drug. 

So, there’s a checklist, that way there are usually – sometimes there’s a new scan if the last scan is a little bit too old, just so that we know exactly what somebody looks like right when they walk into the trial and start the drug. There are usually some blood tests and procedures that come before, and some of the stuff – half of the blood is for the trial, and half of the blood is for scientist usually, so that they can work on some of the science behind what’s happening to someone on a trial, which is pretty cool.  

And sometimes there is a procedure – a biopsy or something like that – that’s involved.  

But, in general, the lead-in is somewhere usually between two and four weeks from the time somebody decides they’re willing to be on a trial. And there are some extra safety measures, like if you hear about a trial, you can’t go on the trial right away, there’s got to be sort of a thinking period that’s usually about 24 hours before you can literally sign your name on the line.  

But, yeah, I’d expect something about two to three weeks before going on a trial. And then once folks are on a trial, it’s kind of like treatment. It’s just getting the treatments when you get the treatments. Sometimes there’s extra checks, again for safety, on drug levels and things.  

Katherine Banwell:

Would you review the safety protocols in place for clinical trials?  

Pauline Funchain:

Yeah, sure. So, safety is number one when it comes to trials, really. There are guardrails on guardrails on guardrails. But in any clinical trial protocol, it actually starts even before the trial starts. So, whenever somebody wants to bring in a trial, or wants to start a trial – and this is true at any academic institution, or any institution that runs trials – the trial goes through something called an IRB, or an Institutional Review Board, and that board reviews it and says, “Look, is this safe, are we harming people, are we unnecessarily coercing people?” 

And they read through the whole thing. And usually there’s a protocol data monitoring committee that also looks at it, there’s usually two. And there’s a lot of checks that a trial has to go through to make sure it’s safe, and fair, for all participants. So, that happens first.  

And then once the trial opens, there is continual monitoring. Every visit, every number that’s drawn. Any visit, even if the visit isn’t at the hospital that’s running the trial, even if it’s at a local urgent care, all of those things end up getting reported back, and there’s a whole team of people besides.  

So, a patient will see the doc, or the nurse, or maybe sometimes a research coordinator, research assistant. But then there are all these research coordinators that sit in offices that review everything, put it in the computers, and then record everything that happens to someone on the trial.  

And all of that data actually goes to an external review organization, a clinical trial research organization. And what they do is, they look over all of the data also. So, it’s not just internal people checking, because internal people may be biased for the people that pay them, right? 

Katherine Banwell:

Right. 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

All of that data goes to an external monitoring board also, to make sure that everything is going the way it’s supposed to go. 

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. Cindi, in your experience, did you feel like safety was a priority? 

Cindi Terwoord:

Oh, definitely, definitely, yeah. They were very, very careful. Mine was a two-part; I had a vaccine along with this nivolumab (Opdivo).  

And so, they would have to give me the vaccine, sit there and stare at me, to make sure I didn’t faint or something, and that was a good half-hour.  

Then I got the immunotherapy, and I’d have to wait an hour after that before I started on the chemotherapy.  

Katherine Banwell:

Oh. 

Cindi Terwoord:

Yeah, they were in there watching me like a hawk, and I felt very safe, I really did. 

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Funchain, what are a patient’s rights when they participate in a trial? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

So, the most important thing, I think, that Cindi mentioned before is, a patient can withdraw at any time. Any time. They can sign the paperwork, and the next second decide not to. They can be almost to the end of the trial and decide that they want to come off. The last word is always with the patient.  

I think the other thing, in terms of safety, you can see – so every patient before starting a trial gets an informed consent. It is multiple pages, there’s a lot of legalese in it.   

But they do try their best to make it as readable and understandable as possible, so that people can, even if they don’t have a medical background, kind of understand what they’ve gotten. The mechanism of what they’ve gotten, and what new drug they’re getting, and generally what are the risks and benefits.  

For instance, let’s say there’s genetic testing involved, there’s always clauses that tell you what that means, and how protected your genetic information is, that kind of stuff.  

So, it’s a very long thing. And again, once someone gets that, they have to have a certain amount of time before they can sign on the line. So, I think information education, and then the ability to come off if they find necessary. 

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. What happens after a trial is completed? Is a patient monitored? And if so, how? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

So, that depends on the trial.  

Most trials do monitor after either the drug is complete, or the course is complete for a certain amount of time, and it depends on the trial. For some trials, it’s six months after; for some trials, it’s years afterwards. So, in melanoma, we have a trial that just reported out their 7-1/2-year follow-up. But it was actually the first immunotherapy combination of its kind that involved the drug that you had to need nivolumab.   

So, it is pretty cool. I mean, that combination changed the face of what patients with melanoma could come to expect from their treatment, so we’re all very interested to know what that kind of follow-up is. But, yeah, it depends on the trial.  

What Are the Risks and Benefits of Joining a Clinical Trial?

What Are the Risks and Benefits of Joining a Clinical Trial? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Why should a cancer patient consider a clinical trial? Dr. Pauline Funchain of the Cleveland Clinic explains the advantages of clinical trial participation.

Dr. Pauline Funchain is a medical oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic. Dr. Funchain serves as Director of the Melanoma Oncology Program, co-Director of the Comprehensive Melanoma Program, and is also Director of the Genomics Program at the Taussig Cancer Institute of the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Funchain, here.

See More from Clinical Trials 101

Related Resources:

You’ve Chosen to Participate In a Clinical Trial: What Are Next Steps?

Understanding Common Clinical Trial Terminology

How to Find A Clinical Trial That’s Right for You


Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Why would a cancer patient consider participating in a clinical trial? What are the benefits? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

So, I mean, the number one benefit, I think, for everyone, including the cancer patient, is really clinical trials help us help the patient, and help us help future patients, really.  

We learn more about what good practices are in the future, what better drugs there are for us, what better regimens there are for us, by doing these trials. And ideally, everyone would participate in a trial, but it’s a very personal decision, so we weigh all the risks and benefits. I think that is the main reason.  

I think a couple of other good reasons to consider a trial would be the chance to see a drug that a person might not otherwise have access to. So, a lot of the drugs in clinical trials are brand new, or the way they’re sequenced are brand new. And so, this is a chance to be able to have a body, or a cancer, see something else that wouldn’t otherwise be available.  

And I think the last thing – and this is sort of the thing we don’t talk about as much – but really, because clinical trials are designed to be as safe as possible, and because they are new procedures, there’s a lot of safety protocols that are involved with them, which means a lot of eyes are on somebody going through a clinical trial.  

Which actually to me means a little bit sort of more love and care from a lot more people. It’s not that the standard of care – there’s plenty of love and care and plenty of people, but this doubles or triples the amount of eyes on a person going through a trial. 

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. When it comes to having a conversation with their doctor, how can a patient best weigh the risks and benefits to determine whether a trial is right for them? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

Right. So, I think that’s a very personal decision, and that’s something that a person with cancer would be talking to their physician about very carefully to really understand what the risks are for them, what the benefits are for them. Because for everybody, risks and benefits are totally different. So, I think it’s really important to sort of understand the general concept. It’s a new drug, we don’t always know whether it will or will not work. And there tend to be more visits, just because people are under more surveillance in a trial.  

So, sort of getting all the subtleties of what those risks and benefits are, I think, are really important. 

Katherine Banwell:

Mm-hmm. What are some key questions that patients should ask? 

Dr. Pauline Funchain:

Well, I think the first question that any patient should ask is, “Is there a trial for me?” I think that every patient needs to know is that an option. It isn’t an option for everyone. And if it is, I think it’s – everybody wants that Plan A, B, and C, right? You want to know what your Plan A, B, and C are. If one of them includes a trial, and what the order might be for the particular person, in terms of whether a trial is Plan A, B, or C. 

What Do You Need To Know About Bladder Cancer? 

What Do You Need To Know About Bladder Cancer?  from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What should you or your loved ones know following a bladder cancer diagnosis? This animated video reviews the diagnosis and types of bladder cancer, current treatment options, and key advice for taking an active role in your care.

See More From The Pro-Active Bladder Cancer Patient Toolkit

Related Programs:

The Importance of Patient Self-Advocacy in Bladder Cancer Treatment

The Importance of Self-Advocacy in Bladder Cancer Treatment

Key Advice for Newly Diagnosed Bladder Cancer Patients

Key Advice for Newly Diagnosed Bladder Cancer Patients

Current Treatment Approaches for Bladder Cancer

Current Treatment Approaches for Bladder Cancer


Transcript:

What do you need to know if you or a loved one has been diagnosed with bladder cancer? 

Bladder cancer occurs when cells in the urinary bladder grow out of control. As more cancer cells develop, they can form a tumor. And, over time, may spread to other parts of the body.  

The most common type of bladder cancer is transitional cell carcinoma or T.C.C.. This may also be referred to as urothelial carcinoma. Other subtypes include: Squamous cell carcinoma, adenocarcinoma, small cell bladder cancer and, sarcomatoid carcinoma. 

How bladder cancer is treated depends on the stage. The stages of bladder cancer include: Stage 1, which indicates that the cancer is growing in the inner lining layer of the bladder only.  Stage 2 occurs when the cancer is growing into the inner or outer muscle layer of the bladder wall. Stage 3 means that the cancer has grown beyond the muscle layer and into fatty tissue that surrounds the bladder. And, Stage 4 indicates that the cancer is growing outside of the pelvic region and has spread to distant sites, such as the lung, liver, or bones. When cancer has spread to other organs in the body, it is considered metastatic cancer. 

When making a treatment choice, your doctor may also consider age, any comorbidities, potential side effects, and the results of biomarker testing, as well as that patient’s preference. 

So, what are the treatment options for bladder cancer? For early stage, or non-muscle-invasive, bladder cancer patients, doctors may use a form of immunotherapy instilled in the bladder called B.C.G. which stands for Bacillus Calmette-Guerin. B.C.G. is used to inhibit the cancer’s growth and prevent recurrence.  

If patients do not respond or recur after B.C.G., a radical cystectomy – a surgical procedure to remove the bladder, is offered.  In select patients, pembrolizumab, a form of immunotherapy, can be used as an alternative. 

For localized bladder cancer invading the muscle, treatment is typically chemotherapy, followed by surgery. Tri-modality treatment using chemotherapy along with radiation is an option for patients who are not candidates for surgery – or refuse surgery – and who meet criteria for bladder preservation.   

Surgery, including a urostomy where the bladder is removed and replaced with a stoma outside of their bodies, is a major procedure reserved for patients who are very fit with low comorbidities. 

Now that you understand a little more about your bladder cancer and treatment options, how can you take an active role in your care? 

First, continue to educate yourself about your condition. Ask your doctor for patient resources or visit powerfulpatients.org/bladdercancer for more information.  

Understand the goals of your treatment and ask whether a clinical trial might be right for you.  

You should also consider a second opinion or consult with a specialist following a diagnosis.  

Try to write down your questions before and during your appointments.  And bring a friend or loved one to your appointments to help you recall information and to keep track of important details.  

Finally, remember that you have a voice in your care. Don’t hesitate to ask questions and to share your concerns. You are your own best advocate. 

To learn more about bladder cancer and to access tools for self-advocacy, visit powerfulpatients.org/bladdercancer.  

Participating in a Clinical Trial: What You Need to Know

Participating in a Clinical Trial: What You Need to Know from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

 Are you considering participating in a clinical trial? In this webinar, Dr. Pauline Funchain, cancer expert and researcher, discusses what to expect when joining a clinical trial, including patient safety and questions to ask your healthcare about trial participation. Patient advocate and colorectal cancer survivor Cindi Terwoord shares her experience and advice for other people with cancer considering joining a clinical trial.

Dr. Pauline Funchain is a medical oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic. Dr. Funchain serves as Director of the Melanoma Oncology Program, co-Director of the Comprehensive Melanoma Program, and is also Director of the Genomics Program at the Taussig Cancer Institute of the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Funchain, here.
 
Cindi Terwoord is a colorectal cancer survivor and patient advocate. Learn more about Cindi, here.
 

Katherine Banwell:    

Hello, and welcome. I’m Katherine Banwell, your host for today’s program. When faced with a cancer diagnosis, could a clinical trial be your best treatment option? Today, we’re going to learn all about clinical trial participation, what’s involved, and how you can work with your healthcare team to decide whether a trial is right for you.

Before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. All right let’s meet our guest today. Joining me is Dr. Pauline Funchain.

Dr. Funchain, welcome, would you please introduce yourself?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:      

Sure. Thank you for the invitation. So, I’m Pauline Funchain, I am a medical oncologist at the Cleveland Clinic. My specialty is melanoma and skin cancers. I also lead our genomics program here at Taussig Cancer Center.

Katherine Banwell:    

Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr. Pauline Funchain:       

Thank you.

Katherine Banwell:    

And here to share the patient perspective is Cindi, who is a colorectal cancer survivor. Cindi, we’re so pleased to have you with us today.

Cindi Terwoord:        

Thank you, nice to be here.

Katherine Banwell:    

Before we learn more about Cindi’s experience, I’d like to start with a basic question for you, Dr. Funchain. Why would a cancer patient consider participating in a clinical trial? What are the benefits?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:        

So, I mean, the number one benefit, I think, for everyone, including the cancer patient, is really clinical trials help us help the patient, and help us help future patients, really.

We learn more about what good practices are in the future, what better drugs there are for us, what better regimens there are for us, by doing these trials. And ideally, everyone would participate in a trial, but it’s a very personal decision, so we weigh all the risks and benefits. I think that is the main reason.

I think a couple of other good reasons to consider a trial would be the chance to see a drug that a person might not otherwise have access to. So, a lot of the drugs in clinical trials are brand new, or the way they’re sequenced are brand new. And so, this is a chance to be able to have a body, or a cancer, see something else that wouldn’t otherwise be available.

And I think the last thing – and this is sort of the thing we don’t talk about as much – but really, because clinical trials are designed to be as safe as possible, and because they are new procedures, there’s a lot of safety protocols that are involved with them, which means a lot of eyes are on somebody going through a clinical trial.

Which actually to me means a little bit sort of more love and care from a lot more people. It’s not that the standard of care – there’s plenty of love and care and plenty of people, but this doubles or triples the amount of eyes on a person going through a trial.

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah. When it comes to having a conversation with their doctor, how can a patient best weigh the risks and benefits to determine whether a trial is right for them?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:       

Right. So, I think that’s a very personal decision, and that’s something that a person with cancer would be talking to their physician about very carefully to really understand what the risks are for them, what the benefits are for them. Because for everybody, risks and benefits are totally different. So, I think it’s really important to sort of understand the general concept. It’s a new drug, we don’t always know whether it will or will not work. And there tend to be more visits, just because people are under more surveillance in a trial.

So, sort of getting all the subtilties of what those risks and benefits are, I think, are really important.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. What are some key questions that patients should ask?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:      

Well, I think the first question that any patient should ask is, “Is there a trial for me?” I think that every patient needs to know is that an option. It isn’t an option for everyone. And if it is, I think it’s – everybody wants that Plan A, B, and C, right? You want to know what your Plan A, B, and C are. If one of them includes a trial, and what the order might be for the particular person, in terms of whether a trial is Plan A, B, or C.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. Let’s learn more about Cindi’s story. Cindi, you were diagnosed with stage IV colorectal cancer, and decided to participate in a clinic trial. Can you tell us about what it was like when you were diagnosed?

Cindi Terwoord:        

Yeah. That was in September of 2019, and I had had some problems; bloody diarrhea one evening, and then the next morning the same thing. So, I called my husband at work, I said, “Things aren’t looking right. I think I’d better go to the emergency room.”

And so, we went there, they took blood work – so I think they knew something was going on – and said, “We’re going to keep you for observation.” So, then I knew it must’ve been something bad. And so, two days later, then I had a colonoscopy, and that’s when they found the tumor, and so that was the beginning of my journey.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. Had you had a colonoscopy before, or was that your first one?

Cindi Terwoord:        

No, I had screenings, I would get screenings. I had heard a lot of bad things about colonoscopies, and complications and that, so I was always very leery of doing that. Shame on me. I go for my other screenings, but I didn’t like to do that one. I have those down pat now, I’m very good at those.

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah, I’m sure you do. So, Cindi, what helped guide your decision to join a clinical trial?

Cindi Terwoord:        

Well, I have a friend – it was very interesting.

He was probably one of the first people we told, because he had all sorts of cancer, and he was, I believe, one of the first patients in the nation to take part in this trial. It’s nivolumab (Opdivo), and he’s been on it for about seven years. And he had had various cancers would crop up, but it was keeping him alive.

And so, frankly, I didn’t know I was going to have the option of a trial, but he told me run straight to Cleveland Clinic, it’s one of the best hospitals. So, I took his advice. And the first day the doctor walked in, and then all these people walked in, and I’m like, “Why do I have so many people in here?” Not just a doctor and a nurse. There was like a whole – this is interesting.

And so, then they said, “Well, we have something to offer you. And we have this immunotherapy trial, and you would be one of the first patients to try this.”

Now, when they said first patient, I’m not quite sure if they meant the first colon cancer patient, I’m not sure. But they told me the name of it, and I said, “I’m in. I’m in.” Because I knew my friend had survived all these years, and I thought, “Well, I’ve gotten the worst diagnosis I can have, what do I have to lose?” So, I said, “I’m on board, I’m on board.”

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. Did you have any hesitations?

Cindi Terwoord:        

Nope. No, I’m an optimistic person, and what they assured me was that I could drop out at any time, which I liked that option.

Because I go, “Well, if I’m not feeling well, and it’s not working, I’ll get out.” So, I liked that part of it. I also liked, as Dr. Funchain had said, you go in for more visits. And I like being closely monitored, I felt that was very good.

I’ve always kept very good track of my health. I get my records, I get my office notes from my doctor. I’m one of those people. I probably know the results of blood tests before the doctor does because I’m looking them up. So, I felt very confident in their care. They watched me like a hawk. I kept a diary because they were asking me so many questions.

Katherine Banwell:    

Oh, good for you.

Cindi Terwoord:        

I’m a transcriptionist, so I just typed out all my notes, and I’d hand it to them.

Katherine Banwell:    

That’s a great idea.

Cindi Terwoord:        

Here’s how I’m feeling, here’s…And I was very lucky I didn’t have many side effects.

Katherine Banwell:    

In your conversations with your doctor, did you weigh the pros and cons about joining a trial? Or had you already made up your mind that yes, indeed, you were going for it?

Cindi Terwoord:        

Yeah, I already said, “I’m in, I’m in.” Like I said, it had kept my friend alive for these many years, he’s still on it, and I had no hesitation whatsoever.

I wish more people – I wanted to get out there and talk to every patient in the waiting room and say, “Do it, do it.”

I mean, you can’t start chemotherapy then get in the trial. And if I ever hear of someone that has cancer, I ask them, “Well, were you given the option to get into a trial?” Well, and then some of them had started the chemo before they even thought of that.

Katherine Banwell:    

Mm-hmm. So, how are you doing now, Cindi? How are you feeling?

Cindi Terwoord:        

Good, good, I’m doing fantastic, thank goodness, and staying healthy. I’m big into herbal supplements, always was, so I keep those up, and I’m exercising. I’m pretty much back to normal –

Katherine Banwell:    

Oh, good for you.

Cindi Terwoord:        

– as far as my strength. I like to lift weights, and I run, so I’m pretty much back to normal.

Katherine Banwell:    

Good for you. Thanks so much for sharing your story with us.

Cindi Terwoord:        

You’re welcome.

Katherine Banwell:    

Dr. Funchain, once a patient like Cindi decides to participate in a trial, what happens next?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

So, there is a lot, actually, that happens. So, there is a lead-in period to a trial. So, once you decide, it’s not like you can start tomorrow on a trial drug. What happens really, there’s a whole safety lead-in that we call an enrollment period, where there’s a long checklist of making sure that a person is healthy, and there’s nothing – no organ or anything in particular – where we would be worried about this particular drug.

So, there’s a check list, that way there are usually – sometimes there’s a new scan if the last scan is a little bit too old, just so that we know exactly what somebody looks like right when they walk into the trial and start the drug. There are usually some blood tests and procedures that come before, and some of the stuff – half of the blood is for the trial, and half of the blood is for scientist usually, so that they can work on some of the science behind what’s happening to someone on a trial, which is pretty cool.

And sometimes there is a procedure – a biopsy or something like that – that’s involved.

But in general, the lead-in is somewhere usually between two and four weeks from the time somebody decides they’re willing to be on a trial. And there are some extra safety measures, like if you hear about a trial, you can’t go on the trial right away, there’s got to be sort of a thinking period that’s usually about 24 hours before you can literally sign your name on the line.

But, yeah, I’d expect something about two to three weeks before going on a trial. And then once folks are on a trial, it’s kind of like treatment. It’s just getting the treatments when you get the treatments. Sometimes there’s extra checks, again for safety, on drug levels and things.

Katherine Banwell:    

Would you review the safety protocols in place for clinical trials?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

Yeah, sure. So, safety is number 1 when it comes to trials, really. There are guardrails on guardrails on guardrails. But in any clinical trial protocol, it actually starts even before the trial starts. So, whenever somebody wants to bring in a trial, or wants to start a trial – and this is true at any academic institution, or any institution that runs trials – the trial goes through something called an IRB, or an Institutional Review Board, and that board reviews it and says, “Look, is this safe, are we harming people, are we unnecessarily coercing people?”

And they read through the whole thing. And usually there’s a protocol data monitoring committee that also looks at it, there’s usually two. And there’s a lot of checks that a trial has to go through to make sure it’s safe, and fair, for all participants. So, that happens first.

And then once the trial opens, there is continual monitoring. Every visit, ever number that’s drawn. Any visit, even if the visit isn’t at the hospital that’s running the trial, even if it’s at a local urgent care, all of those things end up getting reported back, and there’s a whole team of people besides.

So, a patient will see the doc, or the nurse, or maybe sometimes a research coordinator, research assistant. But then there are all these research coordinators that sit in offices that review everything, put it in the computers, and then record everything that happens to someone on the trial.

And all of that data actually goes to an external review organization, a clinical trial research organization. And what they do is, they look over all of the data also. So, it’s not just internal people checking, because internal people may be biased for the people that pay them, right?

Katherine Banwell:    

Right.

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

All of that data goes to an external monitoring board also, to make sure that everything is going the way it’s supposed to go.

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah. Cindi, in your experience, did you feel like safety was a priority?

Cindi Terwoord:        

Oh, definitely, definitely, yeah. They were very, very careful. Mine was a two-part; I had a vaccine along with this nivolumab.

And so, they would have to give me the vaccine, sit there and stare at me, to make sure I didn’t faint or something, and that was a good half-hour.

Then I got the immunotherapy, and I’d have to wait an hour after that before I started on the chemotherapy.

Katherine Banwell:    

Oh.

Cindi Terwoord:        

Yeah, they were in there watching me like a hawk, and I felt very safe, I really did.

Katherine Banwell:     

Dr. Funchain, what are a patient’s rights when they participate in a trial?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

So, the most important thing, I think, that Cindi mentioned before is, a patient can withdraw at any time. Any time. They can sign the paperwork, and the next second decide not to. They can be almost to the end of the trial and decide that they want to come off. The last word is always with the patient.

I think the other thing, in terms of safety, you can see – so every patient before starting a trial gets an informed consent. It is multiple pages, there’s a lot of legalees in it.

But they do try their best to make it as readable and understandable as possible, so that people can, even if they don’t have a medical background, kind of understand what they’ve gotten. The mechanism of what they’ve gotten, and what new drug they’re getting, and generally what are the risks and benefits.

For instance, let’s say there’s genetic testing involved, there’s always clauses that tell you what that means, and how protected your genetic information is, that kind of stuff.

So, it’s a very long thing. And again, once someone gets that, they have to have a certain amount of time before they can sign on the line. So, I think information education, and then the ability to come off if they find necessary.

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah. What happens after a trial is completed? Is a patient monitored? And if so, how?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

So, that depends on the trial.

Most trials do monitor after either the drug is complete, or the course is complete for a certain amount of time, and it depends on the trial. For some trials, it’s six months after; for some trials, it’s years afterwards. So, in melanoma, we have a trial that just reported out their 7-1/2-year follow-up. But it was actually the first immunotherapy combination of its kind that involved the drug that you had Cindi, nivolumab.

So, it is pretty cool. I mean, that combination changed the face of what patients with melanoma could come to expect from their treatment, so we’re all very interested to know what that kind of follow-up is. But, yeah, it depends on the trial.

Katherine Banwell:    

Dr. Funchain, are there common clinical trial terms that patients should know?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

Yeah, there are trial terms that people hear all the time, and probably should know a little bit about. But I think the most common thing people will hear with trials are the type of trial it is, so Phase I, Phase II, Phase III. The important things to know about that are essentially, Phase I is it’s a brand-new drug, and all we’re trying to do is look for toxicity. Although we’ll always on the side be looking for efficacy for whether that drug actually works, we’re really looking to see if the drug is safe.

A Phase II trial is a trial where we’re starting to look at efficacy to some degree, and we are still looking at toxicity. And then in Phase III is, we totally understand the toxicity, and we are seeing promise, and what we really want to do is see if this should become a new standard. So, that would be the Phase I, II, and III.

Another couple of terms that people hear a lot about are eligibility criteria, or inclusion criteria. So, those are usually some set of 10 to 30 things that people can and can’t be. So, usually trials only allow certain types of cancer, and so that would be an inclusion criteria, but it will exclude other types of cancers. Most trials, unfortunately, exclude pregnant women. That would be an exclusion criteria.

So, these are things that, at the very beginning of a trial, will allow someone to enter, or say, “You’re not in the safe category, we should not put you on a trial.” Many trials are randomized, so people will hear this a lot. Randomization.

So, a lot of times, there is already a standard of care. When there’s already a standard of care, and you want to see if this drug is at least the same or better, then on that trial, there will be two different arms; a standard of care arm and experimental arm.

And then in order to be fair, a randomized trial is a flip of a coin. Based on a electronic flip of a coin – nobody gets to choose; not the doc, not the patient. On that type of trial, you’ll either get what you would normally get, standard of care, or something new. So, that’s a randomized trial. Not all trials are randomized, but some are. And those are the things that people will run into often.

Katherine Banwell:    

So, if a patient is interested in joining a clinical trial, where should they start?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

They can start anywhere. There are many places to start. I think their oncologist is a really, really good place to start. I would say a oncologist, depending on their specialties, will have a general grasp of trials, or a really specific grasp of trials.

I would say that the folks who have the most specific grasp on trials– what is available, what isn’t available, what’s at their center versus the next state over center – are the academic medical centers; the ones that are sort of university centers, places like the Cleveland Clinic where the docs are specialized by the type of cancer. That group of folks will have the best grasp on what’s current, what’s available.

And so, Cindi, your friend referred you. many people do say that. Just go to whatever your nearest university center is, just because there’s a lot more specialization in that sense. But I think it’s the age of the internet, so people can look online. Clinicaltrials.gov is a fantastic place to look. It is not as up to date, I think, as something you can get directly from a person at a medical center, but it is a great place to start.

There are many advocacy groups and websites that will point people to trials. I mean, there are Facebook groups and things, where people will chat about trials. But I think the detail is better at a site like clinicaltrials.gov, and even better with a cancer-specific oncologist at a academic medical center.

Katherine Banwell:    

If a trial is recommended, what questions should a patient ask about the trial itself?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

I mean, there’s so many questions to ask.

Katherine Banwell:    

Safety is definitely one of them, right?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

Yeah. I mean, I think when it comes to that, I think that the important things to ask, really, are what are the drugs involved, and what your doc thinks about those drugs.

I think, what is the alternative? So, again, we were talking about option A, B, and C. Is this option A of A, B, and C, or option C of A, B, and C? Are there ones like Cindi mentioned, where if you don’t do it at this point, you’re going to lose the opportunity, because you started on something else. Because a lot of trials require either that a person has never gone through therapy, and so this is sort of first line trial. But some trials are you have to be at the second thing that you’ve been on.

So, these are the things that matter to know. Are you going to lose an opportunity if you didn’t do it now, or can you do it later, and what is the preference? And I think, practically speaking, a patient really wants to know what is the schedule? Can I handle this? How far away do I live from the place that is giving this trial?

What are the locations available? Because if there’s a trial and you have to come in every two weeks, or come in four times in two weeks, and then once every month after that, that makes a big difference depending on where you live, what season it is, weather, that kind of stuff.

And I think the question that you don’t really have to ask, but a lot of people ask, is about cost. So, medical care nowadays is complex, it costs money when you don’t expect it to, it doesn’t cost money when it’s – you just don’t know what will and what won’t. Financial toxicity is something that we really care about. Every center is really trying its best, but it’s hard to do in this type of environment. So, people then get concerned that clinical trials might be even more complex.

I think clinical trials are much less complex in that way, because a lot more of it is covered by the sponsor, whatever that sponsor is, whether that sponsor is the National Institutes of Health, as a grant, or a pharmaceutical company.

But, in general, a clinical trial really should cost the same or less than whatever the standard medical care is; that’s the way they’re built. So, many, many people ask us that question, but I think that is the question that probably is less important than what are the drugs, what does your doc think about this, are you going to lose an opportunity if there’s a different sequence, and does this fit into your life and your schedule, and people who can give you rides.

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah, right. Are there resources available to assist with the financial impact of a clinical trial?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

There are not specific resources for clinical trials; there are specific resources for patients in general, though. There are things like helping with utility bills sometimes, sometimes with rides, I think a lot of clinical trials do pay for things like parking. In general, many trials themselves have extra financial support in them. There was a trial I remember that paid for airfare and lodging, because there were only five centers in the country, and so we had people fly in, and the whole thing was covered.

It depends on the trial. But in terms of outside of trials, there are always patient advocacy groups and things like that, where certain things can get covered. But often, the types of things that get covered by those groups are the same things that get covered with normal medical care.

Katherine Banwell:    

Okay. Before we wrap up the program, Cindi, what advice do you have for patients who may be considering participating in a trial?

Cindi Terwoord:        

Do it. Like I said, I don’t see any downside to it. You want to get better as quickly as possible, and this could help accelerate your recovery. And everything Dr. Funchain mentioned, as far as – I really never brought up any questions about whether it would be covered.

And then somewhere along the line, one of the research people said, “Well, anything the trial research group needs done – like the blood draws – that’s not charged to your insurance.” So, that was nice, that was very encouraging, because I think everybody’s afraid your insurance is going to drop you or something.

And then the first day I was in there for treatment, a social worker came in, and they talked to you. “Do you need financial help? We also have art therapy, music therapy,” so that was very helpful. I mean, she came in and said, “I’m a social worker,” and I’m like, “Oh, okay. I didn’t know somebody was coming in here to talk to me.”

But, yeah, like I said, I’m a big advocate for it, because you hear so many positive outcomes from immunotherapy trials, and boy, I’d say if you’re a candidate, do it.

Katherine Banwell:    

Dr. Funchain, do you have any final thoughts that you’d like to leave the audience with?

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

First, Cindi, I have to say thank you. I say thank you to every clinical trial participant, everybody who participates in the science. Because honestly, whether you give blood, or you try a new drug, I think people don’t understand how many other lives they touch when they do that.

It’s really incredible. Coming into clinic day in and day out, we get to see – I mean, really, even within a year or two years, there are people that we’ve seen on clinical trial that we’re now treating normally, standardly, insurance is paying for it, it’s all standard of care. And those are even the people we can see, and there are so many people we can’t see in other centers all over the world, and people who will go on after us, right?

So, it’s an amazing – I wouldn’t even consider most of the time that it’s a personal sacrifice. There are a couple more visits and things like that, but it is an incredible gift that people do, in terms of getting trials. And then for some of those trials, people have some amazing results.

And so, just the opportunity to have patients get an outcome that wouldn’t have existed without that trial, like Cindi, is incredible, incredible.

Katherine Banwell:    

Yeah. Dr. Funchain and Cindi, thank you both so much for joining us today.

Cindi Terwoord:        

You’re welcome, thanks for having me.

Dr. Pauline Funchain:    

Thank you.

Katherine Banwell:    

And thank you to all of our collaborators. To access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell, thanks for being with us today.