Tag Archive for: chimeric antigen receptor T-cell

Follicular Lymphoma Expert Q&A: Coping with Relapse and Managing Treatment Side Effects

/in , , , , , , , , /by

Follicular lymphoma expert Dr. Kami Maddocks from The Ohio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center empowers patients and families with practical guidance on key aspects of managing follicular lymphoma. Dr. Maddocks covers effective strategies for managing treatment side effects, navigating the challenges of relapsed or refractory disease, and defining what survivorship means for both patients and their care partners.

Download Guide | Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Follicular Lymphoma

Related Resources:

How Do Outcomes for Relapsed/Refractory Follicular Lymphoma Vary?

How Do Outcomes for Relapsed/Refractory Follicular Lymphoma Vary?

 Addressing Vulnerabilities in Follicular Lymphoma

Addressing Vulnerabilities in Follicular Lymphoma

 What Are Common Follicular Lymphoma Treatment Side Effects?

What Are Common Follicular Lymphoma Treatment Side Effects?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Welcome to this START HERE Patient Empowerment Network program. This program bridges the expert and patient voice, enabling patients and care partners to feel comfortable asking questions of their healthcare team. I’m Lisa Hatfield, a cancer survivor and also an Empowerment Lead at Patient Empowerment Network. Joining me today is hematologist-oncologist

Dr. Kami Maddocks, Professor of Clinical Internal Medicine in the Division of Hematology at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center. Dr. Maddocks specializes in treating patients with B-cell malignancies, including non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and chronic lymphocytic leukemia. Dr. Maddocks researches new therapies for these hematologic malignancies, largely through evaluating new targeted therapies in clinical trials. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Maddocks.

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Thank you, Lisa. It’s a real pleasure to be here with everyone today and talking about follicular lymphoma, and I just really appreciate you having me.

Lisa Hatfield:

The world is complicated, but understanding your follicular lymphoma diagnosis and treatment options along your journey doesn’t have to be. The goal of START HERE is to create actionable pathways for getting the most out of your follicular lymphoma treatment and survivorship. Joining us are patients and care partners facing a follicular lymphoma diagnosis, some of which are newly diagnosed, in active treatment, watch and wait, and also living for years with their disease.

START HERE is designed to provide easy-to-understand, reliable, and digestible information to help you make informed decisions. I’m thrilled you’ve joined us. Please remember to download the program resource guide via the QR code. There is great information there that will be useful during this program and after. Okay, Dr. Maddocks, let’s start here. What is the latest in follicular lymphoma, and what are the most important highlights for patients and families?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

When we look at some of the stuff that’s changed in follicular lymphoma, there has actually been some really exciting developments just in the last year in follicular lymphoma. So when you look at patients who have relapsed or refractory follicular lymphoma, we’ve actually seen the approval of three different new therapies just in the last year for relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma. So one of those therapies, we saw a brand new approval, and that’s a therapy which combines an oral targeted therapy with a monoclonal antibody.

So the combination of the CD20 antibody, obinutuzumab (Gazyva), in combination with the BTK inhibitor zanubrutinib (Brukinsa) was approved in March of 2024 for patients with relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma. And this was based on a study that compared that to the single agent anti-CD20 antibody. So while we have had CD20 antibodies approved in both original treatment for follicular lymphoma and relapsed disease, it was the first time that we’ve had a BTK inhibitor approved for the treatment of relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma.

In May of 2024, we saw the approval of actually the third chimeric antigen receptor T cell or CAR T-cell therapy for relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma. So previously, we’ve had two different CAR Ts that target the same antigen or protein CD19 on the cell. And the third therapy with the same target was approved in May of this year for relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma. And then in June of 2024, we actually saw the approval of the second bispecific antibody for the treatment of relapsed and refractory follicular lymphoma.

So previously, we had one approved almost two years ago in December, and a second one, epcoritamab-bysp (Epkinly) was approved in June of this year for patients with relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma. So three different treatments approved in this setting in the last year, which increases the options for patients. It also provides us with thinking about sequencing these agents. And there’s a lot of studies ongoing to decide or to think about what is the best way to sequence therapy, because there’s no right or wrong answer currently in which therapy did you choose and when in patients with relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma.

And then thinking about managing when we’re choosing these therapies, what are the side effects of these therapies and managing these side effects? Right? Because chemotherapy is often used for patients with initial diagnosis, and there is very specific side effects to chemotherapy and ways to manage those side effects. But when we look at some of these newer therapies, we have to think about the different toxicity profiles that they have and how we manage those toxicities.

So when we’re thinking about the newer therapies, like bispecific antibodies and CAR T-cell therapies, there’s very specific toxicity with those therapies, including cytokine release or CRS. And then something called ICANS, which is immune effector cell-associated neurologic toxicities, which are neuro side effects of these therapies. And so how do we identify and manage those therapies and now even looking at ways to potentially prevent patients from having those specific toxicities.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. So regarding those toxicities, like the ICANS and the CRS, is there a difference in how you treat patients? For example, if a patient might experience those side effects, are they hospitalized for that type of treatment initially, or are all of these new treatments done on an outpatient basis?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Yeah, that’s a great question. So the answer can be variable depending on the specific product or the center where the patient’s receiving them, and then even the disease that they’re used in. So let’s just talk about bispecific antibodies to start. So the first bispecific antibody that was approved in follicular lymphoma was mosunetuzumab-axgb (Lunsumio). There’s no required hospitalization to administer that, but there is a recommendation that if patients have signs or symptoms of cytokine release.

So the primary symptom is fever. That’s the number one most common symptom that patients will get and how we define cytokine release. But patients can also have hypoxia or a drop in the oxygen or hypotension and a drop in their blood pressure. So if they have these, it’s generally recommended that they’re admitted for a period of observation to ensure that those toxicities don’t worsen or escalate and that they’re treated if they do.

Which treatment can include ruling out other causes. Some patients may need antibiotics if they have low blood counts and a fever. Some people will need fluids and oxygen. Then sometimes we use steroids like dexamethasone (Decadron) or even cytokine blockers to help manage those side effects, particularly if they’re what we call higher grade or more significant. The second bispecific antibody epcoritamab-bysp. That was previously approved in diffuse large B-cell lymphoma and there was a recommended hospitalization with a step-up dosing for that.

However, in follicular lymphoma, when they studied that, they gave an extra dose. So part of trying to prevent the cytokine release is giving a lower dose and then increasing the dose each week until you reach the maximum dose. So they added an extra kind of intermediate dosing in the follicular dosing and showed that that made a lower risk of…a lower number of patients had cytokine release. And that the majority of them had the lowest grade cytokine release.

So in follicular lymphoma, it’s actually with that increased one dose in there to get to the maximum dose. It’s actually not recommended, or it’s not required that patients are hospitalized for any of the doses. But, of course, if they would, same thing, if they would have side effects, then you would consider that. And then the same thing could be said for the CAR T-cell therapies. Some of them are given inpatient and then patients are monitored for a period of time, and then some are administered as an outpatient. And patients are seen daily for that to check on how they’re doing, monitor for side effects, have labs. And sometimes it just depends on the center administering the therapy, how they have a setup for patients to be monitored.

Lisa Hatfield:

So I have two follow-up questions to that overview. Are these newer approved therapies, are they available at some of the smaller cancer centers, or are they only available right now at the larger cancer centers or academic centers? Then my second question is, are they limited duration therapies or like bispecific antibodies, does that just continue until disease progression?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Yeah, those are great questions. So in general, if you look at the combination of the obinutuzumab and zanubrutinib that should be able to be administered anywhere, the therapy for the oral therapy is continued until progression. If you look at the bispecific antibodies, there’s both. There’s a time-limited therapy, and then there’s one continued until progression. I think in general, we’ve seen that initially these have been used at larger treatment centers, but now that they’ve been approved for a while, we have seen a lot of these being used at smaller cancer centers and in the community centers. Sometimes patients may receive their initial dosing at a larger center and then transition to a local center. But I think, like I said, now, especially the one that’s been approved for a while, we’re seeing that it can be started at many places.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you so much for that important overview, Dr. Maddocks. All right, it’s that time where we answer questions we’ve received from you. Remember, as patients, we should always feel empowered to ask our healthcare providers any and all questions we might have about our treatment and prognosis. Please remember, however, this program is not a substitute for medical care. Always consult with your own medical team. So before we dive into this Q&A, since this program centers on coping with relapse and managing treatment side effects, how do you approach these first-time conversations with patients and their care partners who are facing relapse and potentially dealing with a new set of side effects due to the changes in their treatment regimen?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

I think that’s a great question, and I think there are a lot of things to consider. So I think the first thing that we want to think about when we’re talking about patients having relapsed or refractory follicular lymphoma is that just because patients have relapsed or refractory follicular lymphoma doesn’t always mean that they need treatment. So many patients, when they’re initially diagnosed with follicular lymphoma, are going to go through a period of observation or watch and wait where we know that they have follicular lymphoma, but they don’t have symptoms of their disease.

They don’t have a large number of lymph nodes involved, or their lymph nodes are not very large by the scans, and they don’t necessarily need to be treated until they become symptomatic or have certain concerns from their lymphoma that’s causing problems. So the same thing can happen probably more with relapse than necessarily refractory disease, but patients may…you may detect on scans that they have lymph nodes that are growing or that their disease has recurred, but they don’t always necessarily need to receive treatment.

Once you’ve identified that, yes, a patient requires treatment for their relapsed or refractory follicular lymphoma, the next thing to think about is that patient and their disease. So what age is the patient? What were they treated with initially? Because not all patients receive the same initial therapy. So the decision about what they’re going to receive when they relapse is going to be somewhat dependent on what they received for their initial therapy, what side effects they had from that therapy, and how they responded to that therapy.

The next thing is going to be that there is not just one option at relapse so really discussing the different options for those specific patients, and what are the options, what are the side effects of those options, what is the treatment schedule of those options? Because some treatments may have more toxicity, but they’re time-limited, whereas other therapies may be continued to help progression, they may have less toxicity, but over time that’s a toxicity that patients continue to experience on a daily basis.

So really talking to the patient about the options, what does the schedule of that treatment look like? Do they have to come in weekly? Do they have to come in once a month? And then again, the side effects and how that fits into side effects that they had with their initial therapy, how they tolerate that, are any of those side effects still there?  For example, if a patient has neuropathy from their therapy, that might be something that lasts and then considering all those things and making an informed decision with the patient.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. And these questions are in the perfect order, because we have a question from Lauren asking you, what is the difference between relapsed and refractory? 

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Okay, this is another great question. I’m sure all these questions are great. When we think of relapsed disease, we think of a patient who’s had therapy, got in a response to that therapy, that response has lasted some time, and then their disease recurs. When we think of refractory, we think of that more as patients that have received a therapy, and they haven’t responded. Now, there is no standard definition of refractory. So we all agree that if a patient gets a treatment and their disease does not respond to that treatment, they’re refractory to that treatment.

But there’s no defined time for which if a patient has a treatment and responds to that treatment but has a short relapse, what’s really considered refractory. In general, a lot of studies that look at a therapy say that if you’ve had it, like if you’ve had rituximab (Rituxan) and you’ve relapsed within a six-month time frame, that that’s refractory. But some studies use three months instead of six months.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. Another patient, Jeff, is asking, Dr. Maddocks, I’m currently in an observation stage of non-Hodgkin lymphoma. I get blood work twice a year and scans once a year. I’m hoping it stays slow-growing. How long on average can a person live in observation mode before treatment must occur?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

So this is another great question. And I’m going to provide kind of an overview that we’ll kind of set up, because there may be more questions like this. But in general follicular lymphoma is not one disease, which I’m sure since this is a program focused on relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma, a lot of patients have heard this and know this. But it’s what we call it’s very heterogeneous, or it can behave very differently in patients, meaning that some patients will have very indolent disease, and then there’s a small portion of patients whose disease will be more aggressive.

We know that when we diagnose patients with follicular lymphoma there are some patients that are diagnosed and require treatment pretty quickly, whereas there are other patients that go many years, many, many years without requiring treatment. Some of that is because of the disease, and some of that is because of how we find a patient’s follicular lymphoma. Some patients, we don’t find it until they present with symptoms. Some patients find their own lymph nodes, and some patients are diagnosed because they have a baseline scan that for a totally different reason, maybe get into a car accident, have scans to make sure nothing’s broken, you find an enlarged lymph node, you biopsy it, and you find this diagnosis.

All that said, there are some studies that have looked at patients who are on observation or watch and wait and looked at treating patients who have what we call low tumor burden, or not a lot of lymph nodes, or not very large lymph nodes, but have what’s called advanced stage disease. So lymph nodes on both sides of the diaphragm, not large enough to necessarily require more aggressive treatment, they don’t have symptoms. But we’ve treated, we’ve looked at studies treating those patients with observation or watch and wait or single agent rituximab (Rituxan) therapy. And when you look at the patients in those trials, the median time to needing treatment for patients from observation was three years.

However, there were 30 percent of patients, so one out of three patients who were still being observed at 10 years without requiring any therapy. So there are patients, that’s almost a third of patients at 10 years who’ve been observed, not required therapy in that population of patients. And certainly I have been practicing for a while where I’ve seen patients, I do have some patients who’ve gone longer than that without needing therapy.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. And there you go, Jeff, we hope that you’re in that third. 

Okay, thank you for explaining that. Next question, I’m not sure if it’s Jeff Run or Jeffrey is asking about the most common side effects that are associated with bispecific antibodies, and what precautions can be taken to reduce the risk of infection?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Yeah, another great question. There are two different bispecific antibodies that are now approved for relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma. And I will take this time to also say that some of the exciting ongoing work is looking at those agents in clinical trials, in the frontline setting, in combination with other therapies particularly non chemotherapies.In general, I would say similar side effect profile. The most common side effect between them is the cytokine release or the CRS. So that is the most common side effect. Again, this can be defined in different ways. The most common side effects that you see from that define CRS are fever, hypotension or low blood pressure, hypoxia or low oxygen, shortness of breath, chills, tachycardia or higher heart rate. 

We have talked a lot about CRS and what it entails and how it is defined and presents. But management, it depends on what we call grading. So for patients who just, who have a fever, oftentimes, number one, you want to make sure that it is CRS and that there’s not an underlying cause. So ruling out infection or coexisting infection, if a patient is neutropenic or has a low neutrophil count and is at high risk for infection, you may treat them with antibiotics with a fever while you rule out infection.

But oftentimes, if they have a fever, you can manage symptomatically anti-fever medications like acetaminophen (Tylenol). If a patient has worsening CRS and has other symptoms associated with it, such as the hypoxia, low oxygen, or hypotension, low blood pressure, then that’s when we escalate therapy. So one you direct treatment towards that. So if they need fluid, if they need oxygen, but then that’s when you’re thinking about starting medications such as the steroid medication. So we give intravenous dexamethasone, or there are certain cytokine blockers such as tocilizumab (Actemra) that can be given to help treat the side effects of the cytokine release.

Other common side effects or that we’re seeing in more patients in the clinical trials, fatigue, rash, and then infections including upper respiratory infections, and then COVID-19 infection as well. So part of treatment of these side effects is early recognition of the side effects. So patients are monitored closely and that you’re dealing with the side effects to help them from worsening. I think infection prevention is very important with these. So it’s recommended to consider prophylaxis for certain infections. So antiviral medication to prevent viral, such as shingles reactivation, medication to prevent a specific type of pneumonia, PJP pneumonia, and then consideration I think of just making sure that patients are up to date on vaccination. And if patients do have infection while they’re getting treated, potentially delaying treatment or taking a break in order for them to recover from treatment.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. And this person did not give their name but is asking, Dr. Maddocks, I wanted to know how to travel as safely as possible. Is it advisable to get certain vaccines for travel like yellow fever? I plan to travel to Europe via plane and cruise. They say that there’s stage III non-Hodgkin’s follicular lymphoma getting treatment every eight weeks.

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

So this is a great question, and I’m probably going to answer this a little bit more generically, because I think that it can depend a little bit as far as what specific vaccines. But when thinking about travel, I think that it’s a good idea to look at where you’re traveling because both, where you’re traveling time of year you’re traveling and what you’re going to do when you’re somewhere can depend on what vaccines are recommended. I usually advise patients to consider looking at the CDC guidelines for recommendations for what should be received in that area, travel that time of year, what they’re going to be doing.

And then sometimes there are places that will actually have a travel clinic. Once I know what vaccines are recommended, the patient knows what vaccines are recommended, then I usually work with them and pharmacy to decide what vaccines, if they can receive all those vaccines or if there were certain ones that we may not recommend. In general, it can depend on a patient, what treatments they’ve received or if they’re actively receiving treatments. But in general, we like to avoid live virus vaccines in our patients. So I take into all those factors and then would recommend discussing the specifics with your physician.

Lisa Hatfield:

Luca is asking what are the long-term side effects of bispecific antibody treatment, and how will I be monitored for them after treatment ends?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

So another great question. I think, when we think about the side effects in general, the bispecific antibodies in the CAR T both have those unique toxicity, cytokine release being the most common. And then you also have worry about the neurological toxicity. The difference is that, depending on the specific, bispecific or CAR T that you use, but we usually, typically see these occur in lower grade or not as severe with a bispecific antibody than you can see with a CAR T-cell therapy.

You can still have cytopenias and infection risk with these therapies. Whereas in chemotherapy, we think of that as more generalized toxicities, with the cytopenias, with the risk of infection with the GI toxicities. When we think about long-term side effects, so I think one of the important things to recognize is that bispecific antibodies have not been around that long in the scheme of things, though we can’t say, the risk of 20 years, what do we see or even 10 years.

But when we think about what we have seen, we’ve seen things like the cytokine release, the infections, the cytopenias, but what we haven’t seen is things like the secondary malignancies that we worry about when we think about chemotherapy or even maybe immunomodulatory therapy or secondary cancers that patients can develop. I think for long-term monitoring, right now, at least the biggest thing you want to think about is that these therapies do deplete the lymphocytes, for a prolonged time. And so the risk of viral infections or reactivation of infections, and making sure that’s being considered.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. That’s an important question. So another may possibly be a care partner, Marilyn. How can I best support my loved one during relapse and what should I do if I notice my husband with new or worsening symptoms?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

So another great question. I think it’s first of all important to ask the physician about what symptoms to watch for. So you know, are there certain worsening new symptoms or worsening symptoms that seem more likely to be related to follicular lymphoma versus something else. I think it’s always important to encourage your loved one if they are experiencing new symptoms to reach out to the physician so that they can be evaluated. Because follicular lymphoma is a disease that many people live with and many people live with it for many years. We know that patients can experience other things.

Not everything is going to be just because of the follicular lymphoma. So it’s important to be evaluated, and recognize what is going on and what is attributed to the follicular lymphoma. I think being supportive, thinking of questions to ask and making sure that those questions are answered. I think thinking about, are there resources available? I think educating yourself is one of the most important things that people can do. So knowledge is power. So just participating in things like this I think can be very helpful, because learning about what’s out there, knowing that there are many options, I think being supportive and having a positive attitude, are all helpful things.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. So we have another big and important question from Aubrey. How can I live a full life with follicular lymphoma while managing the emotional toll of knowing the disease may relapse? And what lifestyle changes or habits should I focus on to maintain my health during remission?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Yeah, so this is another great question, and I think there’s probably lots of different ways to answer this or lots of different things to consider. So I think in general, as we’ve talked about follicular lymphoma is something that people live with for a long time. So thinking about just your general health and general disposition. So, we want to think about incorporating exercise, incorporating a healthy lifestyle, thinking about exercise, and being physically active.

Thinking about particularly diet and not saying that there’s any food that you need to avoid or any specific thing, but I think eating healthy is important. I think sleep hygiene is, can be very critical for patients. I think finding, and then just general health, it’s good to have a PCP so that you’re getting good routine health maintenance. We have to think about making sure that we’re managing other medical things like blood pressure, glucose, looking, doing other routine cancer screenings, depending, if somebody’s male or female, but the screening that’s recommended for that.

Now when we’re thinking about managing this does take an emotional toll because a lot of times, when somebody’s initially diagnosed, if they don’t need treatment, the question is always like, well, how long am I, is it going to be before I’m going to need treatment? How am I going to tolerate that treatment? How long is that treatment going to last? And then that resets once a patient’s had treatment. Well, how long will I stay in remission for this treatment? What’s going to be next?

I think things that can help with that are, sometimes I think involving like psychosocial oncology, I think support groups, I think that it’s very beneficial for many patients to talk to people, whether it be through a u look at the median age at diagnosis is in the 60s, and median overall survival is greater than 20 years. So many patients are going to live with this more like a chronic disease. And so learning to kind of knowing basic facts on what it is, what are the treatments that are available, what do those treatments look like, what are the reasons that you need those treatments? And that you are able many times in those periods of not needing treatment to live a very normal lifestyle and do things. I think making sure that, I think it’s important.

One thing that I think can be helpful is you’ll continuously follow up with your physician. So thinking about questions and concerns that you have throughout the period of time, writing them down that gets them out of your mind on paper. And then when you go to see your doctor next, you have that list of questions. Because I think, sometimes we think about things, and then we worry, worry, worry. But putting them down on paper or even sending them through like a secure MyChart email message and then talking them out, because a lot of times if you don’t do that, then when you go to see your physician you think, oh, I don’t really have any questions.

And then you leave and you’re like, oh, I should have asked these 10 different things. So again, I think asking for resources. So there are many different patient friendly resources out there. I think reading material that’s been written or vetted by medical professionals as opposed to just any random material can be very helpful for patients. And then again sometimes seeking out kind of peer support.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, great, thank you. Sean is saying that he was diagnosed with follicular lymphoma in 2022 and in an active treatment. What advice do you have for someone transitioning from patient to survivor? I am eager and fearful.

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Awww. Well, another good question. And I think one thing I want to recognize is that somebody with cancer is defined as a survivor from the time they’re diagnosed moving forward. So you’re already a survivor. But when you, I do think, and I tell patients this, even when we’re talking about starting treatment, I do think that being aware of kind of where patients are at mentally is important.

Because when you go through, when a patient goes through treatment, they’re very focused on next steps and next steps when you’re going through treatment are, when’s my next treatment going to happen? When’s my next scan going to happen? When you get to that point, when you’re done with treatment, you no longer have those small milestones that you’re reaching the next treatment, the next scan. You now are like, oh my gosh, I had this treatment and now, how long is it going to last?

What’s going to happen to me? What else can happen to me? And there can be a lot of fear and anxiety. I would first tell you that’s totally normal. That is a normal feeling to have at this point. So I think one, recognizing that you have them is important. I think considering things like we’ve talked about, is there a survivorship clinic, is there psychosocial oncology? Is there something that might help in talking those things out? I think setting up milestones, what is the next thing? I’m going to have a three-month appointment, I’m going to have labs.

These are the things I need to be thinking about, but if I’m not noticing these also, what things can I do to return to the things I like to do. I think also I would go back to saying, I think this is where just thinking about getting good sleep, getting exercise, eating a healthy, balanced diet, and then socializing and making sure that you’re involving friends and family.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you. And, Sean, you’re already a survivor, Dr. Maddocks said so. So good luck, Sean. All right, Dr. Maddocks, thank you so much for being part of this Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program. It’s these conversations that help patients truly empower themselves along their treatment journey. On behalf of patients like myself and those watching, thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Maddocks.

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Well, Lisa, thank you so much for having me. It’s been a real pleasure, and I hope everybody has a great day.

Lisa Hatfield:  

Thank you. I’m Lisa Hatfield. Thank you for joining this Patient Empowerment Network program.

Share Your Feedback

Current and Emerging CAR T-Cell Therapies for Myeloma

/in , , , , , , , /by

What are the current and emerging CAR T-cell therapies for myeloma? Nurse practitioner Donna Catamero discusses approved CAR T-cell therapies for multiple myeloma, who they’re appropriate for, ongoing research to expand their use, and treatment options if the disease returns after CAR T-cell therapy.

Donna Catamero is a Nurse Practitioner and associate director of the Multiple Myeloma Clinical Research Program at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Learn more about Donna Catamero.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy? Why Managing Overall Health Is Essential

Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy? Why Managing Overall Health Is Essential

Being Empowered | The Importance of Understanding Myeloma

 CAR T-Cell Therapy Support | Questions to Ask About the Process

CAR T-Cell Therapy Support | Questions to Ask About the Process

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Donna, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Would you please introduce yourself and tell us about your role at Mount Sinai? 

Donna Catamero:

Sure. I’m Donna Catamero, I’m a nurse practitioner, and I’m the associate director of the Multiple Myeloma Clinical Research Program at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. 

Katherine Banwell:

Would you tell us about the currently approved CAR T-cell therapies and which myeloma patients they may be right for?  

Donna Catamero:

So, currently, we have two products available for patients. The first is idecabtagene vicleucel (Abecma), and it’s approved for patients with relapsed/refractory disease who have received two prior lines of therapy, and this includes exposure to an immunomodulatory agent, so, your lenalidomide (Revlimid), your pomalidomide (Pomalyst), a proteasome inhibitor, and that includes Velcade/Kyprolis, and an anti-CD38 monoclonal antibody, so this is your daratumumab (Darzalex) or isatuximab-irfc (Sarclisa). 

The second product we have to offer patients is ciltacabtagene autoleucel (Carvykti), and this is approved for patients a little bit earlier on, so, also relapsed/refractory disease who have received at least one prior line of therapy, and it must have included proteasome inhibitor and an immunomodulatory agent, and they need to be refractory to Revlimid. So, what “refractory” means is they relapsed while taking the Revlimid.  

And both these therapies are important for patients, so if patients are inquiring about CAR T therapy, they should ask their providers what product is available for that. 

Katherine Banwell:

Let’s talk about research in CAR T-cell therapy. What new options are being studied, and how far along is the research? 

Donna Catamero:

So, we’re actually very excited. So, the two products, Abecma and Carvykti, we’re actually looking at them in newly diagnosed myeloma patients, and this is regardless of if patients are eligible for transplant or not, and we’re looking at comparing transplant versus CAR T therapies, so we’re hoping to move CAR T therapies for newly diagnosed – so, first-line therapy – so this is very exciting, and we’re also investigating new products with dual targets. 

So, right now, our two approved CAR Ts, they target BCMA, so now we’re looking at CAR Ts that are targeting BCMA and another target – so, GPRC5D or CD19 – so this means that the CAR T is grabbing onto more cells, so, in theory, it would have a higher cell kill.  

And then, we’re also investigating CAR Ts that we call off-the-shelf, so, autologous CAR Ts, so, donor CAR Ts, and this is actually exciting for patients who maybe can’t wait for manufacturing of their T cells, and now we can use donor T cells. So, these are earlier on studies, so we’re hoping within the next few years, more options will be available for patients.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. What happens if the myeloma comes back after T-cell therapy? What are the treatment options available beyond CAR T? 

Donna Catamero:

Earlier on, we were hoping that CAR T would be our cure, but patients are getting very long, durable remissions from their CAR T therapy. We see patients who are five, seven, eight years out from their CAR T therapy, so patients do have a long time in remission, but the myeloma can come back. 

And what do we do with these patients? We actually have been very successful managing patients post a CAR T relapse, so we are looking at bispecific antibodies, which were recently approved over the past several years, and we see patients who have had relapses from their CAR T go back into a remission with these bispecific therapies, and again have long, durable remissions. So, we can absolutely manage patients if their myeloma comes back after CAR T therapy. 

Evolve Multiple Myeloma Resource Guide

/in , , , , , , , /by

Download Resource Guide

PEN-192_Evolve_ResourceGuideF

Download Resource Guide

See More from Evolve Myeloma

PODCAST: Thrive | Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma? What You Should Know

/in , , , /by

 

Dr. Beth Faiman, a myeloma expert and researcher, discusses factors that should be considered when deciding to undergo CAR T-cell therapy, advice for preparing for and after the process, and why a good support team is essential. Dr. Faiman also shares research updates in CAR T-cell therapy, and alternatives options to this myeloma treatment.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Download Resource Guide

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Welcome. I’m your host, Katherine Banwell. As patients navigate their myeloma care, it’s essential for them to feel formed when engaging with their care team. That’s why the Patient Empowerment Network developed the Thrive series, to share support and educational resources so that patients can feel confident at every stage of their care. In today’s program, we’re going to hear from a renowned myeloma expert as we discuss CAR-T therapy. Before we meet today’s guest, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you.  

Well, joining us today is Dr. Beth Faiman. Dr. Faiman, welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Thank you so much, Katherine, and it’s such an honor and a pleasure to be here today. My name is Beth Faiman. I am a nurse practitioner and a PhD researcher at the Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio, where I have worked since 1994, in the field of myeloma mostly. Thank you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us today. As I mentioned, today’s program is part of our Thrive series. So, from your perspective, what does it mean to thrive with myeloma?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

So, to thrive with myeloma is something that when I started managing patients in the 1990s individuals didn’t live very long, maybe two to three years, because we did not have good therapies. Now, we talk about living well with myeloma, thriving with myeloma. It just makes me so happy. I think for plants. I think of flowers that can grow in the right environment. I had a plant in my office recently that somebody had gifted me, and it sat there and tried to soak up the little bit of sunlight that it could muster and just wasn’t doing well.  

So, I brought it home and I put it in a big window. That plant is beautiful now and I just love looking at it and thinking about it. And it reminds me of how if you’re in your right environment with multiple myeloma you surround yourself with friends, families, coworkers, church friends, or places of worship, then you can really thrive in that environment or you can grow. And even though you have a cancer diagnosis, that is not – and I hate to use the D-word – a death sentence anymore. You can live many years and live well with myeloma in the right environment like my little plant.  

Katherine Banwell:

That’s a great idea to think about. Thank you. Well, we’ve covered this in recent webinars but it’s worth sharing again. Can you give us an overview of the process and timeline for someone choosing CAR T-cell therapy for myeloma treatment?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yes. So, CAR T-cell therapy, when we first started discussing this in the mid-2000s, I thought this was science fiction.  

Taking somebody’s own cells, engineering them to be fighters against the cancer cells. I thought it was science fiction. But now, we have two FDA approved therapies for multiple myeloma. It’s Ide-cel, which was approved in 2021 and Cilta-cel, approved in 2022.  

Now, the process is lengthy and I know you’ve covered this before but from my perspective, I think if you want to take something home form this webinar, plan early. So, you need to have three prior lines of therapy as a myeloma patient to qualify for this treatment. But you can start planning for it ahead of time.  

So, it’s not available in every center. So, you want to start researching what the closest center would be for you to have this therapy. Many different patient support networks will have these centers on their websites. So anyhow, you find out.  

“Okay. I want to learn more about a CAR T-cell therapy.” Then you have to meet with a specialist. So, you get that education, have that referral, and meet with a specialist at a center that does CAR T-cell therapy. And that might be where you got your initial transplant if you’ve then returned to the community. After that, then we find a slot for you when it’s ready. So, there is that process of financial, physical, social things that are checked in the background. You meet with a social worker, nurses, etc.  

Once you’ve confirmed that you’re going to go through this process – now, it might be three, six, nine months in the future, if you’re a planner – but if you want to just gain information, it’s that harvesting and storing of the cells. That’s where I try to tell people age is not a number. You can be at any age and you qualify for this therapy. We’ve had people well into their late 70s to early 80s who have gotten these therapies.   

Long story short, it’s a process.  

You get your cells harvested and then while they’re being manufactured into fighters, they take the T cells from your blood through an apheresis machine and freeze them, send them off, make them into fighters, and then reinfuse them in your bloodstream. It’s a long process. It can take anywhere from two to three months from when you decide it’s right for you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, thank you for explaining that. That’s really important. It puts into perspective. It’s a big undertaking. But also, quite manageable, I think, right, with the right team and support. Who are the members?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. The family members, friends, and, of course – I like to use the words the multidisciplinary team. That’s your physicians, your social workers, nurses, nurse practitioners like me, pharmacists, and then all your other specialists.  

So really, mounting that team from diagnosis and throughout your whole journey as a myeloma patient can really enrichen your life and help you thrive in that environment.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. It sounds like there’s a lot of support for someone going through this process and that the care partner also plays a critical role on the care team, right?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, absolutely. So, I am a big advocate for care partner though not everybody has a caregiver. So, it can be a formal caregiver, somebody’s spouse, daughter, son, significant other. Or it can be an informal caregiver. So, I’ve had patients that – because you need to have a care partner to qualify for CAR T-cell therapy, because patients need to be monitored for about 30 days afterwards. So, that might be pulling in friends from your place of worship, people from the community, and then also people from the cancer center.  

Some of the larger centers that do the CART-cell therapy have a network setup where you get this list of people that have volunteered to drive you to appointments or maybe arrange for Uber help to drive you back and forth. I am not plugging Uber or Lyft, but a rideshare company. And so, finding out those resources can help anyone – just about anyone – access these CAR  T-cell therapies, because you can have a long-term remission. Think about somebody who’s been through treatment A, B, C, or D and then now, “Gosh, maybe my life is going to be shortened.”  

Not necessarily. If this is the right recipe to control their myeloma then they can get 11, 24 months off of everything – just antibiotics – and be monitored. And so, it puts them at a position where if you can get the care partner, get a care team, to support you then you can have access to a potentially life extending with good quality of life therapy.   

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. I’m sure many of our viewers today are wondering who the therapy is right for and when is it most appropriate in the course of myeloma? Could you address that?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah, absolutely. So, currently, you have to have had three prior lines of therapy with drugs such as a CD38, which is – daratumumab (Darzalex) is a name of a medication.  

You have to have a drug such as lenalidomide (Revlimid) as well as a drug like bortezomib (Velcade). And you have to have had three lines of therapy. So, that’s how you can access the therapy. But if you’re willing to participate in a well-designed clinical trial there are studies with CAR T-cell therapy earlier on.  

So, one of the things that we’re advocating in the myeloma world is clinical trials. We haven’t gotten to where we are in 2024 with the advances in sciences, the advances in living longer and living well with myeloma, without the brave people before us that have participated in clinical trials. 

So, people who it’s right for would be if they qualify for a clinical trial before their third or fourth line of therapy or if they’ve had three or four prior lines of therapy. And there are other points to that which I’m sure we’ll talk about later on.  

Katherine Banwell:

In your opinion, what are three key considerations that myeloma patients and care partners should think about related to the CAR T-cell therapy approach?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, gosh. Well, I would like to say that always when you’re selecting a therapy, think of the physical, the financial, and the social implications of that therapy. So, physically is the medication too strong for you? Are you too weak to take it? Or is it just right for you? So, finding the right medication for the right patient at the right dose at the right time. So, the physical component. The financial component is also very important. So, maybe your insurance now won’t cover it but then there’s open enrollment in Medicare towards the end of the year or you can find financial support reimbursement through many of our generous organizations that will provide grants for certain medications.  

And then, the social. Do you have a care partner, as we discussed? The importance of being monitored for 30 days. If you don’t have a formal care partner, is there some system that we can help support you through so that you can have the different supports throughout. It’s not only that beginning part where you’re gaining the information – and I think of it like a timeline. The beginning part, you’re thinking about gathering information to the – in that process of getting yourselves back because of the side effects, which I think have been talked about in a prior webinar.  

And then, the post-monitoring where you go back to your community, taking antibiotics, antiviral medications, etc., to keep you living well longer. So, it’s a process.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, it’s great advice, Dr. Faiman, thank you. I’d also like to add that if you’re considering CAR T-cell therapy, the Patient Empowerment Network has a wealth of information on this topic, including resource guides and interviews with experts like Dr. Faiman. 

And you can find those at powerfulpatients.org/myeloma. So, Dr. Faiman, when a patient is talking with their care team about CAR T-cell therapy, what questions should they be asking to help determine if CAR-T is even right for them?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Katherine, that’s an excellent question. So, let’s just say that somebody from Patient Empowerment Network heard about CAR T-cell therapy for myeloma and then sought out a local institution that might be conducting that procedure. So then, they come for that visit and what you mentioned was just spot on, getting a list of questions together. What we do at my institution, as well as many throughout the country, is a process called shared decision-making.  

You might’ve talked about this on prior webinars, but shared decision-making occurs when that healthcare team, such as the physician, nurse practitioner, pharmacist, whoever, shares information with the patient and their care partner.  

You mutually share information to arrive at a decision. So, many studies have been done on shared decision-making. It’s done in many different areas. And so, through that sharing of information, you might think of different questions.  

Some of the things that I try to proactively offer – we all have our list of things that we educate our patients on, but some of the things I proactively will recommend to patients and their care partners when you’re seeking an opinion at these centers is, “How long will I be sick? What are the biggest side effects of the medication I have to worry about?” Asking your care team – I know it sounds silly, but are they aware of all your prior health concerns, especially if you’re coming for an evaluation.  

Maybe you have peripheral neuropathy where you have numbness and tingling in your fingers or toes or a history of kidney disease. Your kidneys look fine now but maybe a few years ago at the myeloma diagnosis the kidneys had a temporary failing and now they’re better so they’d want to protect you with future medications. How long will you have to take medications after the CAR-T procedure? There’s antiviral medicines, antibacterial medications, and medications called IVIG, which strengthens your immune system.  

And then, finally, asking about the infection protection afterwards. Do you have to get vaccinated again against pneumococcal, shingles, and all of those other things that we do. The cellular therapy guidelines suggest timepoint for one, three, five, etc., months after CAR T-cell procedure to get revaccinated. So, who’s going to do that for you?  

How are you going to know what to get? So, make sure that they give you a timeline, calendars, and set expectations for what you need to do as a patient and then you’ll help them set expectations for what they need to do to provide you the accurate education.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, talking about what to expect after CAR T-cell therapy, would you tell us what some of the potential side effects are?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, absolutely. So, CAR T-cell therapy – again, it harnesses your immune system using your T cells. Your T cells are so important in your immune system to be programmed as fighters. And as people age, or as long as – after they’ve had myeloma or other kinds of cancers, those T cells just don’t work as well. So, what we want to do is engineer them and program them with what we call a viral vector to be fighters. So, those T cells, as I mentioned, are harvested, stored, and then manufactured to go. 

And I tell people it’s like that Pac-Man video game. It goes around in your bloodstream just kind of eating away at the myeloma cells. So, you don’t take any medications. You don’t go in for IVs every week or twice weekly, or taking pills at home to treat the myeloma. It’s what we consider a one-and-done thing. So, if it works for you, it can keep you in remission for quite some time. But if it doesn’t work then there still are other therapies down the road.  

So, the CAR T-cell therapy is something that is an option but there are other therapies out there in many cases. There’s something called a bispecific antibody. There are three currently approved for multiple myeloma now. So, maybe a CAR T-cell therapy doesn’t seem right for you because you’re not in a good remission or the cancer’s too active right now so you don’t have the time to wait for manufacturing of the cells and putting them back in your bloodstream.  

Those bispecifics will fill that gap. So, when you’re discussing the options, aside from clinical trials and other drugs, the bispecific antibody is very similar. One of the things that I wanted to highlight is that nowadays we’re into these things called sequencing. So, we’re trying to figure out what order to give these super effective drugs. Should we give the bispecific antibodies first or should we give the CAR T-cell therapy first? And in most centers, if you have time to wait and you’re planning, the CAR T-cell therapy is right for most people and then the bispecifics would come later.  

Katherine Banwell:

All right. So, after CAR T-cell therapy is completed, what potential side effects might people experience, and what should they look for?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. I think of things in short-term and long-term side effects. So, the short term, you’re going to be admitted to the hospital and you have a risk for – when we get those T cells back – that cytokine release syndrome, or it’s abbreviated CRS – where you’re body’s immune system’s fighting.  

I tell folks it’s kind of like if you got a vaccine for a flu vaccine or pneumonia and you had a reaction it’s just way worse. So, you can get a high fever – the big first sign of this CRS. Usually, the providers will jump in with giving you a medication called tocilizumab (Actemra) or a similar drug that blocks IL-6, which is a chemical that is triggered when we get the CRS. And then, it stops those symptoms. And so, most of us know how to do that and will approve your insurance to get access to that tocilizumab or similar drug when we approve your CAR T-cell therapy.  

So, that CRS can get you really, really sick. You can get low oxygen levels in your blood. You can get a high fever and you can drop your blood pressure. But most CAR T-cells centers, the nurses and the staff are very well-trained to monitor this every eight hours, in most cases.  

Another rare side effect we worry about is ICANS and it’s a neurotoxicity kind of thing.  

It can be with CRS or without CRS. But they’ll ask you to do things like write your name on a piece of paper every eight hours or tell me – draw a clock or count backwards from 100. And so, if you have any deviation, even minor, from what you reported back beforehand then we worry about neurotoxicity. Now, that’s short term but that’s the reason why you can’t drive a car for 30 days is because it could be delayed. 

The CRS can start with the one thing, the ide-cel usually occurs within one day so most people are admitted to the hospital for that CAR T-cell therapy. The Cilta-cel, it onsets to about seven days. So, some people get the cilta-cel outpatient and then are monitored daily, whether in person or through virtual telehealth monitoring.  

But at any rate, those are the short-term. Long-term, we worry about low blood counts maybe for the first month afterwards. And then, those will come back to normal. And then, we worry about infection. So, I mentioned the antibacterial, antiviral, which is usually a medicine called acyclovir (Zovirax), which most myeloma patients will have been on anyhow. And then, that IVIG to protect against viruses and bacteria when your immune system is so low. 

But fortunately, if we control the CRS, it usually comes with the CRS, although it can be independent. We try not to give steroids, because we don’t want it to interrupt the CAR T-cell process. But many institutions will give that tocilizumab for ICANS. And if that doesn’t get better then they’ll give you a steroid, such as dexamethasone (Decadron). 

And so, that will usually reverse itself pretty quickly. Longer term, after 30 days, you can get with the Carvykti, particularly something called Parkinsonian things where you can get a little bit shaky or something like that. Again, it’s very rare and I have had hundreds of people who have undergone the CAR T-cell procedure at my institution. And knock on wood, fortunately, I’ve not seen first-hand that side effect. And I think it’s because we’re so good now at treating the – preventing the ICANS and CRS as best as we can while they’re inpatient and doing real close following.  

One other thing I want to note is if somebody who’s watching this does go in the hospital for any reason, get up and walk around and stay strong, as well as you can, during the procedure. You might be bored if you’re in the hospital anyhow, but try to stay as strong as you can in the hospital. It’ll help your post recovery for sure.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, what about more mild side effects like fatigue and changes in appetite?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. So, the fatigue and the changes in appetite are generally mild for most but I see it, in my experience, if your myeloma’s acting up really quickly, if you’re having a rapid disease progression, the medications that we give you to control the myeloma during this bridging therapy phase might cause some of that as well, not necessarily the CAR T-cell process. But think about it. We’re using your own cells engineered to be fighters.  

And so, that first month or two is probably when you’re going to be the most tired as your body is being programmed to fight against the myeloma cells. That fatigue tends to get better. And as I mentioned just a moment earlier, the importance of just walking around in the halls, getting out of bed when you’re in the hospital, that can really help your post recovery. It doesn’t seem like much, but there have been many studies about how muscle mass declines, energy declines when you’re hospitalized.  

And we want you to be as strong as you can and thrive as much as you can for when you’re out you can then do the things you want to do at a quicker pace.   

Katherine Banwell:

Right. That’s great advice. Beyond monitoring of any issues, what can someone expect related to returning to life as they knew it before the diagnosis? Is there a timeline for resuming lifestyle and activity?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah. So, I should say I because it’s from my perspective. I am a real strong advocate. I tell people to do what you feel like you can physically do. We know that myeloma can affect the bones and put your bones at risk for breaking and so we give you medicines to protect it. So, I do put some restrictions however on physical activity in terms of, “I don’t want you to bench press 40 pounds or 20 pounds,” in most cases. And depending on what the bones look like on x-ray, I’ll even restrict it to about five to 10 pounds.  

If you think about it, that’s a bag of potatoes. So, you don’t want to put too many restrictions on for everybody. But talk to your healthcare provider about what your specific restrictions are with physical activity. Because I don’t really put any restrictions on but I encourage things like riding a bike, especially a stationary bike in your own home, so that if you fall off – hopefully, you won’t fall off a stationary bike. But if you injure yourself, then you’re able to be in a place that somebody can help you.  

But riding a bike. Also, exercising in water. Water therapy is a great weight bearing exercise and there are times of day where you can go when the YMCAs or YWCAs aren’t as busy – or community centers. So, you’re less at risk for bacterial or other illnesses. But during that first month, I try to limit their exposure to people because you’re at risk for the different viruses that are all over the place, the bacterial infections. 

So, that first month is the critical period where I try to say, “Okay, try to lay low. Let’s get you through this period. Your immune system will start getting stronger on its own after this period.” And then, that month two you start feeling like doing more. You go to the grocery store. You maybe go to eat out at a restaurant but pick a time of day that’s less busy. So, go for an early dinner. There’s no shame in eating at 5:00 p.m. if you want to go out. And then, get a table in the corner with your own wipes. And so, that’s where your immune system is getting stronger. 

And then, by month three, I think most people will feel much, much better and much, much stronger. And if you can keep moving throughout this whole time, then you’ll be stronger on the way out.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Faiman, from what you’ve described, undergoing CAR T-cell therapy can be a very intense process. Why would someone consider this option over another myeloma treatment option?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah. So, the CAR T-cell therapies have really transformed myeloma, in my opinion.  

When we first started using CAR T-cell therapies, there was a long wait list because people who had had three, five, seven, 10, 12 prior therapies, they had very few other options. So, we had ethically assigned scores to people as to who – we’d get one or two slots a month and then we’d have 80-some people on this list. And we’re thinking, “How do we allocate who’s going to get this therapy?” And it’s because you can have a nice, long remission off of all therapy.  

It’s a great, great option for most people. Again, I would hope that we can get this moved further into the disease trajectory. There are actually two studies. One was a KarMMa study. It was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2023, early part of 2023.  

And it showed that when people get this therapy earlier, the Ide-cel first, you can have a longer remission. So, we’re talking about three, four, five or more prior lines of therapy you can get about 11 months with the Ide-cel.  

You could even get a longer remission off of all therapy if you move it earlier. Same with Cilta-cel. We had studies and different cohorts and you can be in a long remission. So, think of somebody who’s – myeloma’s incurable. It’s very treatable but it’s incurable for most. And so, you go from the expectation of staying on treatment until disease progression, much like other chronic conditions like diabetes. We don’t stop medicine for diabetes or high blood pressure.  

And it’s the same with myeloma and many of the cancers that we treat these days. And so, a CAR T-cell therapy will give patients the option of having that disease free interval where you can go and travel the world. I have patients that have bought RVs after their CAR T-cell therapy and now they’re going around the world – well, not the world. But around the United States.  

Katherine Banwell:

The country. 

Dr. Beth Faiman:

The country. And just really enjoying life and taking that time off and being realistic, knowing that we have to do bloodwork every month to make sure the myeloma’s still in remission because it can come back. But at least it’s sleeping for right now. So, you can go out and enjoy your life and take those trips and enjoy the little things and the big things.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. Well, thank you for that advice. I’d like to get to a few audience questions that were sent in prior to the program. Alice asks, can you share more information about T-cell collection? A recent webinar mentioned that myeloma must be in good control. Can you share specifics about the bridging therapy prior to infusion?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yes. So, again, the process is the lengthy process as we mentioned before. But for the actual T-cell collection, we will have approved you to get the therapy. Financially, we’ve cleared you. Socially, you’ve gotten your support systems and now we’re getting those cells out.  

We use a process called apheresis where a temporary catheter is placed under the skin, and it separates your white blood cells and then returns the red bloods and plasma back into the blood. And it sorts out those T cells. The process itself, you’re on the machine for anywhere for two or three hours. Hopefully, it’ll just be one day’s time. And then, they’ll manufacture those cells.  

So, during that period where we’ve put your cells and sent them away to wherever’s going to be doing the manufacturing, you’re going to need to get a treatment that’s going to keep you in remission from the myeloma. And it’s not going to prevent you from getting those cells safely back. So, we don’t want anything that’s too toxic for most people. So, what we’re doing now is we have that information that early on is better for myeloma to get these treatments. And so, the hope that bridging therapy won’t be as common of a thing anymore.  

Because now we’re selecting people that are – the myeloma’s just starting to act up. Let’s get those cells out, send them off, so we don’t have to do bridging therapy. We can just keep you – add a medication or take away another medication to keep you in remission. So, that’s the goal of bridging therapy. What’s that bridge to get your cells back in for some people? It might be a chemotherapy type of a thing. But for other people it’s just trying to get you that CAR T-cell collection and manufacturing so we don’t really have to change everything all up.  

And we’ve been very fortunate now that the wait lists have cleared in most institutions. CAR-T cell is available at more centers across the country and so we don’t have that backlog. And so, fortunately, bridging therapy will hopefully be a little bit less of a thing.  

Katherine Banwell:

We have another question. This one from Rita. What kind of monitoring takes places in the months following CAR T-cell therapy and what kinds of medicines are required afterward?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, excellent. So, the monitoring is usually on the short-term, within the first 30 to 60 days afterwards, oftentimes depending on what your blood counts are showing. You might have to get blood counts tested more frequently. So, that complete blood count shows you the white cells, the red cells. The white cells fight infection. Red cells carry oxygen. Platelets clot the blood. That’s a marker of how well your bone marrow is functioning. It also can be – those innocent bystanders can go low temporarily after this procedure.  

So, definitely those CBCs need to be tested, for some people weekly and for some people every other week. And your healthcare team will tell you how often. After that first two to three months and your blood counts are all in good shape, then we can just go oftentimes to a monthly monitoring of the myeloma labs. So, that’s the CBC and the chemistry panel but also the paraproteins in the blood and the urine get monitored.  

There’s also another test called a CD4 count that’s something that you wouldn’t have had beforehand. The CD4 count is an immune count that we want to be over 200. Oftentimes,  you’ll be on an antibiotic called Bactrim or an inhaled called pentamidine to lessen the chance of a certain kind of infection called PJP, or pneumocystis. So, those are those atypical infections that we’re now seeing with CAR-T cell and other therapies.  

And as I mentioned, acyclovir to protect against shingles is a medication but you’re not going to be on any anti-myeloma medications other than maybe a bone strengthener if you get that intermittently. Fortunately, after CAR-T cell, you don’t have any anti myeloma therapy as long as you’re in remission.  

Katherine Banwell:

We also received this question from a viewer named Rob. If you receive CAR-T therapy, how long does it last and have you seen remission for a long time?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

So, I’d like to tell Rob that I’ve seen a little bit of a remission and I’ve seen long-time remissions. Unfortunately, it goes back to the biology of the disease. People that have a more aggressive type of myeloma tend to not have as long of a remission but that’s not always the case. So, if you have what’s called a standard type of myeloma, which fortunately about 80 percent of the people have a standard or good type of myeloma, you can get an 11- to 24-month remission if you’ve had many prior therapies.  

Now, if we’re moving the CAR-T earlier lines of therapy, as in those two studies that I briefly mentioned with the Ide-cel and the Cilta-cel studies that are moving it to one to three prior lines of therapy, people are getting longer remissions.  

Unfortunately, I do not have a crystal ball. I can look at your disease genetics. I can look at how deep your remission status is and I can generally predict based on other studies how long of a remission you might get, but it’s not a guarantee. What works for one person might not work for the other so you take it with a grain of salt. We just say, “Gosh, this is a great therapy. We need to offer it to you while we have that window of opportunity. You’re in a good remission. We have a slot for you. We’re going to pick the best product for you. Let’s give you this option.” 

You might be one of those exceptional responders that are in remission for several years, which I do have people that have been in remission several years, fortunately.  

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. Well, thank you so much for the thoughtful responses to those questions. As we close out today’s program, can you talk about some of the ongoing research in CAR T-cell therapy and what you’re excited about?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, my gosh. I am so excited about CAR T-cell therapy research. There are these what we call CRISPR gene edited technology, which is really personalizing the treatment in CAR-T.  

There’s what we call an off-the-shelf approach where we don’t have to manufacture one’s T cells to be a fighter. So, these CAR T-cell therapies are the kinds of clinical studies where if you are in a position where you want to hopefully get an earlier access to a great therapy, this CRISPR edited at – Caribou is what it’s called, that we have at my institution. That might be right for you.  

There’s also the different targets. For example, the Ide-cel and the Cilta-cel target what’s called BCMA or B-cell maturation antigen. Basically, the BCMA is expressed mostly on cancer cells and less so on healthy cells.  

And so, that’s what the target is for these current CAR-Ts. We have different targets. So, what does that mean for you? If you had a CAR T-cell therapy against BCMA or a bispecific against BCMA now we have these different targets so that gives you other options for remissions status. So, if you can, I am a big, strong advocate for clinical trials. Like I said, it’s getting better access. You have a healthcare team. There’s so much stigma associated with clinical trials, but every single person is a candidate for some sort of a trial or another.  

So, talk to your healthcare team or you can go to clinicaltrials.gov and then all the patient care organizations – International Myeloma Foundation, Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation, has access to clinical trial information as well for patients. So, yes, lots of good things. New targets. Off-the-shelf so you don’t have to manufacture. So, that represents new treatment options for many patients.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Faiman, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. 

Dr. Beth Faiman:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.  

Katherine Banwell:

And thank you to all of our collaborators. To learn more about myeloma and to access tools to help you become a more proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for being with us.  

CAR T-Cell Therapy | Care and Monitoring Post-Treatment

/in , , , , , , , /by

CAR T-Cell Therapy | Care and Monitoring Post-Treatment from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How are myeloma patients monitored after CAR T-cell therapy? Myeloma expert and researcher Dr. Beth Faiman explains the testing that takes place following CAR T-cell therapy, how long monitoring will occur, and medications that are commonly prescribed for post-CAR T-cell therapy care.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect?

 CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages?

 What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

What kind of monitoring takes places in the months following CAR T-cell therapy, and what kinds of medicines are required afterward?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, excellent. So, the monitoring is usually on the short-term, within the first 30 to 60 days afterwards, oftentimes depending on what your blood counts are showing. You might have to get blood counts tested more frequently. So, that complete blood count shows you the white cells, the red cells. The white cells fight infection. Red cells carry oxygen. Platelets clot the blood. That’s a marker of how well your bone marrow is functioning. It also can be – those innocent bystanders can go low temporarily after this procedure.   

So, definitely those CBCs need to be tested, for some people weekly and for some people every other week. And your healthcare team will tell you how often. After that first two to three months and your blood counts are all in good shape, then we can just go oftentimes to a monthly monitoring of the myeloma labs. So, that’s the CBC and the chemistry panel but also the paraproteins in the blood and the urine get monitored.  

There’s also another test called a CD4 count that’s something that you wouldn’t have had beforehand. The CD4 count is an immune count that we want to be over 200. Oftentimes, you’ll be on an antibiotic called Bactrim or an inhaled called pentamidine to lessen the chance of a certain kind of infection called PJP, or pneumocystis. So, those are those atypical infections that we’re now seeing with CAR-T cell and other therapies.  

And as I mentioned, acyclovir (Zovirax) to protect against shingles is a medication but you’re not going to be on any anti-myeloma medications other than maybe a bone strengthener if you get that intermittently. Fortunately, after CAR-T cell, you don’t have any anti-myeloma therapy as long as you’re in remission. 

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages?

/in , , , , , , , /by

CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma | What Are the Advantages? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How has CAR T-cell therapy transformed care for myeloma patients? Myeloma expert and researcher Dr. Beth Faiman shares results from the KarMMa study that compared CAR T-cell therapy versus a standard regimen, and the benefits of this therapy over time.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Advice for Myeloma Patients Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy

Advice for Myeloma Patients Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy

 Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Right for You? Questions to Ask Your Myeloma Care Team

Is CAR T-Cell Therapy Right for You? Questions to Ask Your Myeloma Care Team

 Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect

Recovering From CAR T-Cell Therapy | What Can Myeloma Patients Expect?

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Faiman, from what you’ve described, undergoing CAR T-cell therapy can be a very intense process. Why would someone consider this option over another myeloma treatment option?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah. So, the CAR T-cell therapies have really transformed myeloma, in my opinion.  

When we first started using CAR T-cell therapies, there was a long wait list because people who had had three, five, seven, 10, 12 prior therapies, they had very few other options.  

So, we had ethically assigned scores to people as to who – we’d get one or two slots a month and then we’d have 80-some people on this list. And we’re thinking, “How do we allocate who’s going to get this therapy?” And it’s because you can have a nice, long remission off of all therapy.  

It’s a great, great option for most people. Again, I would hope that we can get this moved further into the disease trajectory. There are actually two studies. One was a KarMMa study. It was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2023, early part of 2023.  

And it showed that when people get this therapy earlier, the Ide-cel first, you can have a longer remission. So, we’re talking about three, four, five or more prior lines of therapy you can get about 11 months with the Ide-cel.  

You could even get a longer remission off of all therapy if you move it earlier. Same with Cilta-cel. We had studies and different cohorts and you can be in a long remission. So, think of somebody who’s – myeloma’s incurable. It’s very treatable but it’s incurable for most. And so, you go from the expectation of staying on treatment until disease progression, much like other chronic conditions like diabetes. We don’t stop medicine for diabetes or high blood pressure.  

And it’s the same with myeloma and many of the cancers that we treat these days. And so, a CAR T-cell therapy will give patients the option of having that disease free interval where you can go and travel the world. I have patients that have bought RVs after their CAR T-cell therapy and now they’re going around the world – well, not the world. But around the United States.  

Katherine Banwell:

The country. 

Dr. Beth Faiman:

The country. And just really enjoying life and taking that time off and being realistic, knowing that we have to do bloodwork every month to make sure the myeloma’s still in remission because it can come back. But at least it’s sleeping for right now. So, you can go out and enjoy your life and take those trips and enjoy the little things and the big things.   

CAR T-Cell Therapy | Key Considerations for Myeloma Patients

/in , , , , , , , /by

CAR T-Cell Therapy | Key Considerations for Myeloma Patients from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Myeloma expert and researcher Dr. Beth Faiman shares key considerations when planning for CAR T-cell therapy. Dr. Faiman reviews which patients qualify for CAR T-cell therapy, key aspects for patients to consider, and resources for clinical trials and CAR T-cell therapy information.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Download Resource Guide

Related Resources:

Planning for CAR T-Cell Therapy | Advice for Myeloma Patients

Planning for CAR T-Cell Therapy | Advice for Myeloma Patients

 Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy | Key Advice From an Expert

Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy? Key Advice From an Expert 

 What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

I’m sure many of our viewers today are wondering who the therapy is right for, and when is it most appropriate in the course of myeloma? Could you address that?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah, absolutely. So, currently, you have to have had three prior lines of therapy with drugs such as a CD38, which is – daratumumab (Darzalex) is a name of a medication.   

You have to have a drug such as lenalidomide (Revlimid) as well as a drug like bortezomib (Velcade). And you have to have had three lines of therapy. So, that’s how you can access the therapy. But if you’re willing to participate in a well-designed clinical trial there are studies with CAR T-cell therapy earlier on.  

So, one of the things that we’re advocating in the myeloma world is clinical trials. We haven’t gotten to where we are in 2024 with the advances in sciences, the advances in living longer and living well with myeloma, without the brave people before us that have participated in clinical trials.   

So, people who it’s right for would be if they qualify for a clinical trial before their third or fourth line of therapy or if they’ve had three or four prior lines of therapy.   

And there are other points to that which I’m sure we’ll talk about later on.  

Katherine Banwell:

In your opinion, what are three key considerations that myeloma patients and care partners should think about related to the CAR T-cell therapy approach?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Well, I would like to say that always when you’re selecting a therapy, think of the physical, the financial, and the social implications of that therapy. So, physically is the medication too strong for you? Are you too weak to take it? Or is it just right for you? So, finding the right medication for the right patient at the right dose at the right time. So, the physical component.

The financial component is also very important. So, maybe your insurance now won’t cover it but then there’s open enrollment in Medicare towards the end of the year or you can find financial support reimbursement through many of our generous organizations that will provide grants for certain medications.  

And then, the social. Do you have a care partner, as we discussed? The importance of being monitored for 30 days. If you don’t have a formal care partner, is there some system that we can help support you through so that you can have the different supports throughout. It’s not only that beginning part where you’re gaining the information – and I think of it like a timeline. The beginning part, you’re thinking about gathering information to the – in that process of getting yourselves back because of the side effects, which I think have been talked about in a prior webinar.  

And then, the post-monitoring where you go back to your community, taking antibiotics, antiviral medications, etc., to keep you living well longer. So, it’s a process.   

Katherine Banwell:

Well, it’s great advice, Dr. Faiman, thank you. I’d also like to add that if you’re considering CAR T-cell therapy, the Patient Empowerment Network has a wealth of information on this topic, including resource guides and interviews with experts like Dr. Faiman. And you can find those at powerfulpatients.org/myeloma.  

What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy?

/in , , , , , , , /by

What Side Effects Are Possible Following CAR T-Cell Therapy? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Myeloma expert and researcher Dr. Beth Faiman shares an overview of both rare and mild side effects that may affect people who have undergone CAR T-cell therapy. Dr. Faiman also discusses patient monitoring and explains methods to help combat potential issues caused by CAR T-cell therapy.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Advice for Myeloma Patients Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy

Advice for Myeloma Patients Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy

 What You Need to Know About Accessing CAR T-Cell Therapy

What You Need to Know About Accessing CAR T-Cell Therapy

 Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy | Key Advice From an Expert

Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy? Key Advice From an Expert

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

So, after CAR T-cell therapy is completed, what potential side effects might people experience, and what should they look for?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. I think of things in short-term and long-term side effects. So, the short term, you’re going to be admitted to the hospital and you have a risk for – when we get those T cells back – that cytokine release syndrome, or it’s abbreviated CRS – where you’re body’s immune system’s fighting.  

I tell folks it’s kind of like if you got a vaccine for a flu vaccine or pneumonia and you had a reaction it’s just way worse. So, you can get a high fever – the big first sign of this CRS. Usually, the providers will jump in with giving you a medication called tocilizumab (Actemra) or a similar drug that blocks IL-6, which is a chemical that is triggered when we get the CRS. And then, it stops those symptoms. And so, most of us know how to do that and will approve your insurance to get access to that tocilizumab or similar drug when we approve your CAR T-cell therapy.  

So, that CRS can get you really, really sick. You can get low oxygen levels in your blood. You can get a high fever and you can drop your blood pressure. But most CAR T-cells centers, the nurses and the staff are very well-trained to monitor this every eight hours, in most cases.  

Another rare side effect we worry about is ICANS, and it’s a neurotoxicity kind of thing.   

It can be with CRS or without CRS. But they’ll ask you to do things like write your name on a piece of paper every eight hours or tell me – draw a clock or count backwards from 100. And so, if you have any deviation, even minor, from what you reported back beforehand then we worry about neurotoxicity. Now, that’s short term but that’s the reason why you can’t drive a car for 30 days is because it could be delayed. 

The CRS can start with the one thing, the Ide-cel usually occurs within one day so most people are admitted to the hospital for that CAR T-cell therapy. The Cilta-cel, it onsets to about seven days. So, some people get the Cilta-cel outpatient and then are monitored daily, whether in person or through virtual telehealth monitoring.  

But at any rate, those are the short-term. Long-term, we worry about low blood counts maybe for the first month afterwards. And then, those will come back to normal. And then, we worry about infection. So, I mentioned the antibacterial, antiviral, which is usually a medicine called acyclovir (Zovirax), which most myeloma patients will have been on anyhow. And then, that IVIG to protect against viruses and bacteria when your immune system is so low. 

But fortunately, if we control the CRS, it usually comes with the CRS, although it can be independent. We try not to give steroids, because we don’t want it to interrupt the CAR T-cell process. But many institutions will give that tocilizumab for ICANS. And if that doesn’t get better then they’ll give you a steroid, such as dexamethasone (Decadron). 

And so, that will usually reverse itself pretty quickly. Longer term, after 30 days, you can get with the Carvykti, particularly something called Parkinsonian things where you can get a little bit shaky or something like that. Again, it’s very rare and I have had hundreds of people who have undergone the CAR T-cell procedure at my institution. And knock on wood, fortunately, I’ve not seen first-hand that side effect. And I think it’s because we’re so good now at treating the – preventing the ICANS and CRS as best as we can while they’re inpatient and doing real close following.  

One other thing I want to note is if somebody who’s watching this does go in the hospital for any reason, get up and walk around and stay strong, as well as you can, during the procedure. You might be bored if you’re in the hospital anyhow, but try to stay as strong as you can in the hospital. It’ll help your post recovery for sure.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, what about more mild side effects like fatigue and changes in appetite?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. So, the fatigue and the changes in appetite are generally mild for most but I see it, in my experience, if your myeloma’s acting up really quickly, if you’re having a rapid disease progression, the medications that we give you to control the myeloma during this bridging therapy phase might cause some of that as well, not necessarily the CAR T-cell process. But think about it. We’re using your own cells engineered to be fighters.  

And so, that first month or two is probably when you’re going to be the most tired as your body is being programmed to fight against the myeloma cells. That fatigue tends to get better. And as I mentioned just a moment earlier, the importance of just walking around in the halls, getting out of bed when you’re in the hospital, that can really help your post recovery. It doesn’t seem like much, but there have been many studies about how muscle mass declines, energy declines when you’re hospitalized.  

And we want you to be as strong as you can and thrive as much as you can for when you’re out you can then do the things you want to do at a quicker pace.  

Planning for CAR T-Cell Therapy | Advice for Myeloma Patients

/in , , , , , , , /by

Planning for CAR T-Cell Therapy | Advice for Myeloma Patients from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can myeloma patients plan and prepare for CAR T-cell therapy? Myeloma expert and researcher Dr. Beth Faiman shares an overview of eligibility requirements, appointments to coordinate, multidisciplinary team members, and support resources to help in planning.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Download Resource Guide

Related Resources:

Advice for Myeloma Patients Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy

Advice for Myeloma Patients Undergoing CAR T-Cell Therapy

 Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy | Key Advice From an Expert

Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy? Key Advice From an Expert 

 What Do You Need to Know When Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy?

What Do You Need to Know When Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy?

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Can you give us an overview of the process and timeline for someone choosing CAR T-cell therapy for myeloma treatment?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yes. So, CAR T-cell therapy, when we first started discussing this in the mid-2000s, I thought this was science fiction.  

Taking somebody’s own cells, engineering them to be fighters against the cancer cells. I thought it was science fiction. But now, we have two FDA-approved therapies for multiple myeloma. It’s Ide-cel, which was approved in 2021 and Cilta-cel, approved in 2022.  

Now, the process is lengthy, and I know you’ve covered this before but from my perspective, I think if you want to take something home form this webinar, plan early. So, you need to have three prior lines of therapy as a myeloma patient to qualify for this treatment. But you can start planning for it ahead of time.  

So, it’s not available in every center. So, you want to start researching what the closest center would be for you to have this therapy. Many different patient support networks will have these centers on their websites. So anyhow, you find out.  

“Okay. I want to learn more about a CAR T-cell therapy.” Then you have to meet with a specialist. So, you get that education, have that referral, and meet with a specialist at a center that does CAR T-cell therapy. And that might be where you got your initial transplant if you’ve then returned to the community. After that, then we find a slot for you when it’s ready. So, there is that process of financial, physical, social things that are checked in the background. You meet with a social worker, nurses, etc.  

Once you’ve confirmed that you’re going to go through this process – now, it might be three, six, nine months in the future, if you’re a planner – but if you want to just gain information, it’s that harvesting and storing of the cells. That’s where I try to tell people age is not a number. You can be at any age and you qualify for this therapy. We’ve had people well into their late 70s to early 80s who have gotten these therapies. Long story short, it’s a process.  

You get your cells harvested and then while they’re being manufactured into fighters, they take the T cells from your blood through an apheresis machine and freeze them, send them off, make them into fighters, and then reinfuse them in your bloodstream. It’s a long process. It can take anywhere from two to three months from when you decide it’s right for you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, thank you for explaining that. That’s really important. It puts into perspective. It’s a big undertaking. But also, quite manageable, I think, right, with the right team and support. Who are the members?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. The family members, friends, and, of course – I like to use the words the multidisciplinary team. That’s your physicians, your social workers, nurses, nurse practitioners like me, pharmacists, and then all your other specialists.  

So really, mounting that team from diagnosis and throughout your whole journey as a myeloma patient can really enrichen your life and help you thrive in that environment.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. It sounds like there’s a lot of support for someone going through this process and that the care partner also plays a critical role on the care team, right?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, absolutely. So, I am a big advocate for care partner though not everybody has a caregiver. So, it can be a formal caregiver, somebody’s spouse, daughter, son, significant other. Or it can be an informal caregiver. So, I’ve had patients that – because you need to have a care partner to qualify for CAR T-cell therapy, because patients need to be monitored for about 30 days afterwards. So, that might be pulling in friends from your place of worship, people from the community, and then also people from the cancer center.  

Some of the larger centers that do the CART-cell therapy have a network setup where you get this list of people that have volunteered to drive you to appointments or maybe arrange for Uber help to drive you back and forth. I am not plugging Uber or Lyft, but a rideshare company.

And so, finding out those resources can help anyone – just about anyone – access these CAR  T-cell therapies, because you can have a long-term remission. Think about somebody who’s been through treatment A, B, C, or D and then now, “Gosh, maybe my life is going to be shortened.”  

Not necessarily. If this is the right recipe to control their myeloma then they can get 11, 24 months off of everything – just antibiotics – and be monitored. And so, it puts them at a position where if you can get the care partner, get a care team, to support you then you can have access to a potentially life extending with good quality of life therapy.   

Thrive | Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma? What You Should Know

/in , , , , , , , /by

Thrive | Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma? What You Should Know from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

 Dr. Beth Faiman, a myeloma expert and researcher, discusses factors that should be considered when deciding to undergo CAR T-cell therapy, advice for preparing for and after the process, and why a good support team is essential. Dr. Faiman also shares research updates in CAR T-cell therapy, and alternatives options to this myeloma treatment.

Dr. Beth Faiman is an Adult Nurse Practitioner in the department of Hematologic Oncology and Blood Disorders at the Cleveland Clinic. Learn more about Dr. Faiman.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Download Resource Guide

Related Resources:

What Do You Need to Know When Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy?

What Do You Need to Know When Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy?

 Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy | Key Advice From an Expert

Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy? Key Advice From an Expert 

Thrive | Advice for Managing Potential CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects 

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Welcome. I’m your host, Katherine Banwell. As patients navigate their myeloma care, it’s essential for them to feel formed when engaging with their care team. That’s why the Patient Empowerment Network developed the Thrive series, to share support and educational resources so that patients can feel confident at every stage of their care. In today’s program, we’re going to hear from a renowned myeloma expert as we discuss CAR-T therapy. Before we meet today’s guest, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you.  

Well, joining us today is Dr. Beth Faiman. Dr. Faiman, welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Thank you so much, Katherine, and it’s such an honor and a pleasure to be here today. My name is Beth Faiman. I am a nurse practitioner and a PhD researcher at the Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio, where I have worked since 1994, in the field of myeloma mostly. Thank you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us today. As I mentioned, today’s program is part of our Thrive series. So, from your perspective, what does it mean to thrive with myeloma?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

So, to thrive with myeloma is something that when I started managing patients in the 1990s individuals didn’t live very long, maybe two to three years, because we did not have good therapies. Now, we talk about living well with myeloma, thriving with myeloma. It just makes me so happy. I think for plants. I think of flowers that can grow in the right environment. I had a plant in my office recently that somebody had gifted me, and it sat there and tried to soak up the little bit of sunlight that it could muster and just wasn’t doing well.  

So, I brought it home and I put it in a big window. That plant is beautiful now and I just love looking at it and thinking about it. And it reminds me of how if you’re in your right environment with multiple myeloma you surround yourself with friends, families, coworkers, church friends, or places of worship, then you can really thrive in that environment or you can grow. And even though you have a cancer diagnosis, that is not – and I hate to use the D-word – a death sentence anymore. You can live many years and live well with myeloma in the right environment like my little plant.  

Katherine Banwell:

That’s a great idea to think about. Thank you. Well, we’ve covered this in recent webinars but it’s worth sharing again. Can you give us an overview of the process and timeline for someone choosing CAR T-cell therapy for myeloma treatment?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yes. So, CAR T-cell therapy, when we first started discussing this in the mid-2000s, I thought this was science fiction.  

Taking somebody’s own cells, engineering them to be fighters against the cancer cells. I thought it was science fiction. But now, we have two FDA approved therapies for multiple myeloma. It’s Ide-cel, which was approved in 2021 and Cilta-cel, approved in 2022.  

Now, the process is lengthy and I know you’ve covered this before but from my perspective, I think if you want to take something home form this webinar, plan early. So, you need to have three prior lines of therapy as a myeloma patient to qualify for this treatment. But you can start planning for it ahead of time.  

So, it’s not available in every center. So, you want to start researching what the closest center would be for you to have this therapy. Many different patient support networks will have these centers on their websites. So anyhow, you find out.  

“Okay. I want to learn more about a CAR T-cell therapy.” Then you have to meet with a specialist. So, you get that education, have that referral, and meet with a specialist at a center that does CAR T-cell therapy. And that might be where you got your initial transplant if you’ve then returned to the community. After that, then we find a slot for you when it’s ready. So, there is that process of financial, physical, social things that are checked in the background. You meet with a social worker, nurses, etc.  

Once you’ve confirmed that you’re going to go through this process – now, it might be three, six, nine months in the future, if you’re a planner – but if you want to just gain information, it’s that harvesting and storing of the cells. That’s where I try to tell people age is not a number. You can be at any age and you qualify for this therapy. We’ve had people well into their late 70s to early 80s who have gotten these therapies.   

Long story short, it’s a process.  

You get your cells harvested and then while they’re being manufactured into fighters, they take the T cells from your blood through an apheresis machine and freeze them, send them off, make them into fighters, and then reinfuse them in your bloodstream. It’s a long process. It can take anywhere from two to three months from when you decide it’s right for you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, thank you for explaining that. That’s really important. It puts into perspective. It’s a big undertaking. But also, quite manageable, I think, right, with the right team and support. Who are the members?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. The family members, friends, and, of course – I like to use the words the multidisciplinary team. That’s your physicians, your social workers, nurses, nurse practitioners like me, pharmacists, and then all your other specialists.  

So really, mounting that team from diagnosis and throughout your whole journey as a myeloma patient can really enrichen your life and help you thrive in that environment.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. It sounds like there’s a lot of support for someone going through this process and that the care partner also plays a critical role on the care team, right?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, absolutely. So, I am a big advocate for care partner though not everybody has a caregiver. So, it can be a formal caregiver, somebody’s spouse, daughter, son, significant other. Or it can be an informal caregiver. So, I’ve had patients that – because you need to have a care partner to qualify for CAR T-cell therapy, because patients need to be monitored for about 30 days afterwards. So, that might be pulling in friends from your place of worship, people from the community, and then also people from the cancer center.  

Some of the larger centers that do the CART-cell therapy have a network setup where you get this list of people that have volunteered to drive you to appointments or maybe arrange for Uber help to drive you back and forth. I am not plugging Uber or Lyft, but a rideshare company. And so, finding out those resources can help anyone – just about anyone – access these CAR  T-cell therapies, because you can have a long-term remission. Think about somebody who’s been through treatment A, B, C, or D and then now, “Gosh, maybe my life is going to be shortened.”  

Not necessarily. If this is the right recipe to control their myeloma then they can get 11, 24 months off of everything – just antibiotics – and be monitored. And so, it puts them at a position where if you can get the care partner, get a care team, to support you then you can have access to a potentially life extending with good quality of life therapy.   

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. I’m sure many of our viewers today are wondering who the therapy is right for and when is it most appropriate in the course of myeloma? Could you address that?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah, absolutely. So, currently, you have to have had three prior lines of therapy with drugs such as a CD38, which is – daratumumab (Darzalex) is a name of a medication.  

You have to have a drug such as lenalidomide (Revlimid) as well as a drug like bortezomib (Velcade). And you have to have had three lines of therapy. So, that’s how you can access the therapy. But if you’re willing to participate in a well-designed clinical trial there are studies with CAR T-cell therapy earlier on.  

So, one of the things that we’re advocating in the myeloma world is clinical trials. We haven’t gotten to where we are in 2024 with the advances in sciences, the advances in living longer and living well with myeloma, without the brave people before us that have participated in clinical trials. 

So, people who it’s right for would be if they qualify for a clinical trial before their third or fourth line of therapy or if they’ve had three or four prior lines of therapy. And there are other points to that which I’m sure we’ll talk about later on.  

Katherine Banwell:

In your opinion, what are three key considerations that myeloma patients and care partners should think about related to the CAR T-cell therapy approach?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, gosh. Well, I would like to say that always when you’re selecting a therapy, think of the physical, the financial, and the social implications of that therapy. So, physically is the medication too strong for you? Are you too weak to take it? Or is it just right for you? So, finding the right medication for the right patient at the right dose at the right time. So, the physical component. The financial component is also very important. So, maybe your insurance now won’t cover it but then there’s open enrollment in Medicare towards the end of the year or you can find financial support reimbursement through many of our generous organizations that will provide grants for certain medications.  

And then, the social. Do you have a care partner, as we discussed? The importance of being monitored for 30 days. If you don’t have a formal care partner, is there some system that we can help support you through so that you can have the different supports throughout. It’s not only that beginning part where you’re gaining the information – and I think of it like a timeline. The beginning part, you’re thinking about gathering information to the – in that process of getting yourselves back because of the side effects, which I think have been talked about in a prior webinar.  

And then, the post-monitoring where you go back to your community, taking antibiotics, antiviral medications, etc., to keep you living well longer. So, it’s a process.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, it’s great advice, Dr. Faiman, thank you. I’d also like to add that if you’re considering CAR T-cell therapy, the Patient Empowerment Network has a wealth of information on this topic, including resource guides and interviews with experts like Dr. Faiman. 

And you can find those at powerfulpatients.org/myeloma. So, Dr. Faiman, when a patient is talking with their care team about CAR T-cell therapy, what questions should they be asking to help determine if CAR-T is even right for them?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Katherine, that’s an excellent question. So, let’s just say that somebody from Patient Empowerment Network heard about CAR T-cell therapy for myeloma and then sought out a local institution that might be conducting that procedure. So then, they come for that visit and what you mentioned was just spot on, getting a list of questions together. What we do at my institution, as well as many throughout the country, is a process called shared decision-making.  

You might’ve talked about this on prior webinars, but shared decision-making occurs when that healthcare team, such as the physician, nurse practitioner, pharmacist, whoever, shares information with the patient and their care partner.  

You mutually share information to arrive at a decision. So, many studies have been done on shared decision-making. It’s done in many different areas. And so, through that sharing of information, you might think of different questions.  

Some of the things that I try to proactively offer – we all have our list of things that we educate our patients on, but some of the things I proactively will recommend to patients and their care partners when you’re seeking an opinion at these centers is, “How long will I be sick? What are the biggest side effects of the medication I have to worry about?” Asking your care team – I know it sounds silly, but are they aware of all your prior health concerns, especially if you’re coming for an evaluation.  

Maybe you have peripheral neuropathy where you have numbness and tingling in your fingers or toes or a history of kidney disease. Your kidneys look fine now but maybe a few years ago at the myeloma diagnosis the kidneys had a temporary failing and now they’re better so they’d want to protect you with future medications. How long will you have to take medications after the CAR-T procedure? There’s antiviral medicines, antibacterial medications, and medications called IVIG, which strengthens your immune system.  

And then, finally, asking about the infection protection afterwards. Do you have to get vaccinated again against pneumococcal, shingles, and all of those other things that we do. The cellular therapy guidelines suggest timepoint for one, three, five, etc., months after CAR T-cell procedure to get revaccinated. So, who’s going to do that for you?  

How are you going to know what to get? So, make sure that they give you a timeline, calendars, and set expectations for what you need to do as a patient and then you’ll help them set expectations for what they need to do to provide you the accurate education.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, talking about what to expect after CAR T-cell therapy, would you tell us what some of the potential side effects are?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, absolutely. So, CAR T-cell therapy – again, it harnesses your immune system using your T cells. Your T cells are so important in your immune system to be programmed as fighters. And as people age, or as long as – after they’ve had myeloma or other kinds of cancers, those T cells just don’t work as well. So, what we want to do is engineer them and program them with what we call a viral vector to be fighters. So, those T cells, as I mentioned, are harvested, stored, and then manufactured to go. 

And I tell people it’s like that Pac-Man video game. It goes around in your bloodstream just kind of eating away at the myeloma cells. So, you don’t take any medications. You don’t go in for IVs every week or twice weekly, or taking pills at home to treat the myeloma. It’s what we consider a one-and-done thing. So, if it works for you, it can keep you in remission for quite some time. But if it doesn’t work then there still are other therapies down the road.  

So, the CAR T-cell therapy is something that is an option but there are other therapies out there in many cases. There’s something called a bispecific antibody. There are three currently approved for multiple myeloma now. So, maybe a CAR T-cell therapy doesn’t seem right for you because you’re not in a good remission or the cancer’s too active right now so you don’t have the time to wait for manufacturing of the cells and putting them back in your bloodstream.  

Those bispecifics will fill that gap. So, when you’re discussing the options, aside from clinical trials and other drugs, the bispecific antibody is very similar. One of the things that I wanted to highlight is that nowadays we’re into these things called sequencing. So, we’re trying to figure out what order to give these super effective drugs. Should we give the bispecific antibodies first or should we give the CAR T-cell therapy first? And in most centers, if you have time to wait and you’re planning, the CAR T-cell therapy is right for most people and then the bispecifics would come later.  

Katherine Banwell:

All right. So, after CAR T-cell therapy is completed, what potential side effects might people experience, and what should they look for?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. I think of things in short-term and long-term side effects. So, the short term, you’re going to be admitted to the hospital and you have a risk for – when we get those T cells back – that cytokine release syndrome, or it’s abbreviated CRS – where you’re body’s immune system’s fighting.  

I tell folks it’s kind of like if you got a vaccine for a flu vaccine or pneumonia and you had a reaction it’s just way worse. So, you can get a high fever – the big first sign of this CRS. Usually, the providers will jump in with giving you a medication called tocilizumab (Actemra) or a similar drug that blocks IL-6, which is a chemical that is triggered when we get the CRS. And then, it stops those symptoms. And so, most of us know how to do that and will approve your insurance to get access to that tocilizumab or similar drug when we approve your CAR T-cell therapy.  

So, that CRS can get you really, really sick. You can get low oxygen levels in your blood. You can get a high fever and you can drop your blood pressure. But most CAR T-cells centers, the nurses and the staff are very well-trained to monitor this every eight hours, in most cases.  

Another rare side effect we worry about is ICANS and it’s a neurotoxicity kind of thing.  

It can be with CRS or without CRS. But they’ll ask you to do things like write your name on a piece of paper every eight hours or tell me – draw a clock or count backwards from 100. And so, if you have any deviation, even minor, from what you reported back beforehand then we worry about neurotoxicity. Now, that’s short term but that’s the reason why you can’t drive a car for 30 days is because it could be delayed. 

The CRS can start with the one thing, the ide-cel usually occurs within one day so most people are admitted to the hospital for that CAR T-cell therapy. The Cilta-cel, it onsets to about seven days. So, some people get the cilta-cel outpatient and then are monitored daily, whether in person or through virtual telehealth monitoring.  

But at any rate, those are the short-term. Long-term, we worry about low blood counts maybe for the first month afterwards. And then, those will come back to normal. And then, we worry about infection. So, I mentioned the antibacterial, antiviral, which is usually a medicine called acyclovir (Zovirax), which most myeloma patients will have been on anyhow. And then, that IVIG to protect against viruses and bacteria when your immune system is so low. 

But fortunately, if we control the CRS, it usually comes with the CRS, although it can be independent. We try not to give steroids, because we don’t want it to interrupt the CAR T-cell process. But many institutions will give that tocilizumab for ICANS. And if that doesn’t get better then they’ll give you a steroid, such as dexamethasone (Decadron). 

And so, that will usually reverse itself pretty quickly. Longer term, after 30 days, you can get with the Carvykti, particularly something called Parkinsonian things where you can get a little bit shaky or something like that. Again, it’s very rare and I have had hundreds of people who have undergone the CAR T-cell procedure at my institution. And knock on wood, fortunately, I’ve not seen first-hand that side effect. And I think it’s because we’re so good now at treating the – preventing the ICANS and CRS as best as we can while they’re inpatient and doing real close following.  

One other thing I want to note is if somebody who’s watching this does go in the hospital for any reason, get up and walk around and stay strong, as well as you can, during the procedure. You might be bored if you’re in the hospital anyhow, but try to stay as strong as you can in the hospital. It’ll help your post recovery for sure.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, what about more mild side effects like fatigue and changes in appetite?   

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Absolutely. So, the fatigue and the changes in appetite are generally mild for most but I see it, in my experience, if your myeloma’s acting up really quickly, if you’re having a rapid disease progression, the medications that we give you to control the myeloma during this bridging therapy phase might cause some of that as well, not necessarily the CAR T-cell process. But think about it. We’re using your own cells engineered to be fighters.  

And so, that first month or two is probably when you’re going to be the most tired as your body is being programmed to fight against the myeloma cells. That fatigue tends to get better. And as I mentioned just a moment earlier, the importance of just walking around in the halls, getting out of bed when you’re in the hospital, that can really help your post recovery. It doesn’t seem like much, but there have been many studies about how muscle mass declines, energy declines when you’re hospitalized.  

And we want you to be as strong as you can and thrive as much as you can for when you’re out you can then do the things you want to do at a quicker pace.   

Katherine Banwell:

Right. That’s great advice. Beyond monitoring of any issues, what can someone expect related to returning to life as they knew it before the diagnosis? Is there a timeline for resuming lifestyle and activity?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah. So, I should say I because it’s from my perspective. I am a real strong advocate. I tell people to do what you feel like you can physically do. We know that myeloma can affect the bones and put your bones at risk for breaking and so we give you medicines to protect it. So, I do put some restrictions however on physical activity in terms of, “I don’t want you to bench press 40 pounds or 20 pounds,” in most cases. And depending on what the bones look like on x-ray, I’ll even restrict it to about five to 10 pounds.  

If you think about it, that’s a bag of potatoes. So, you don’t want to put too many restrictions on for everybody. But talk to your healthcare provider about what your specific restrictions are with physical activity. Because I don’t really put any restrictions on but I encourage things like riding a bike, especially a stationary bike in your own home, so that if you fall off – hopefully, you won’t fall off a stationary bike. But if you injure yourself, then you’re able to be in a place that somebody can help you.  

But riding a bike. Also, exercising in water. Water therapy is a great weight bearing exercise and there are times of day where you can go when the YMCAs or YWCAs aren’t as busy – or community centers. So, you’re less at risk for bacterial or other illnesses. But during that first month, I try to limit their exposure to people because you’re at risk for the different viruses that are all over the place, the bacterial infections. 

So, that first month is the critical period where I try to say, “Okay, try to lay low. Let’s get you through this period. Your immune system will start getting stronger on its own after this period.” And then, that month two you start feeling like doing more. You go to the grocery store. You maybe go to eat out at a restaurant but pick a time of day that’s less busy. So, go for an early dinner. There’s no shame in eating at 5:00 p.m. if you want to go out. And then, get a table in the corner with your own wipes. And so, that’s where your immune system is getting stronger. 

And then, by month three, I think most people will feel much, much better and much, much stronger. And if you can keep moving throughout this whole time, then you’ll be stronger on the way out.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Faiman, from what you’ve described, undergoing CAR T-cell therapy can be a very intense process. Why would someone consider this option over another myeloma treatment option?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yeah. So, the CAR T-cell therapies have really transformed myeloma, in my opinion.  

When we first started using CAR T-cell therapies, there was a long wait list because people who had had three, five, seven, 10, 12 prior therapies, they had very few other options. So, we had ethically assigned scores to people as to who – we’d get one or two slots a month and then we’d have 80-some people on this list. And we’re thinking, “How do we allocate who’s going to get this therapy?” And it’s because you can have a nice, long remission off of all therapy.  

It’s a great, great option for most people. Again, I would hope that we can get this moved further into the disease trajectory. There are actually two studies. One was a KarMMa study. It was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2023, early part of 2023.  

And it showed that when people get this therapy earlier, the Ide-cel first, you can have a longer remission. So, we’re talking about three, four, five or more prior lines of therapy you can get about 11 months with the Ide-cel.  

You could even get a longer remission off of all therapy if you move it earlier. Same with Cilta-cel. We had studies and different cohorts and you can be in a long remission. So, think of somebody who’s – myeloma’s incurable. It’s very treatable but it’s incurable for most. And so, you go from the expectation of staying on treatment until disease progression, much like other chronic conditions like diabetes. We don’t stop medicine for diabetes or high blood pressure.  

And it’s the same with myeloma and many of the cancers that we treat these days. And so, a CAR T-cell therapy will give patients the option of having that disease free interval where you can go and travel the world. I have patients that have bought RVs after their CAR T-cell therapy and now they’re going around the world – well, not the world. But around the United States.  

Katherine Banwell:

The country. 

Dr. Beth Faiman:

The country. And just really enjoying life and taking that time off and being realistic, knowing that we have to do bloodwork every month to make sure the myeloma’s still in remission because it can come back. But at least it’s sleeping for right now. So, you can go out and enjoy your life and take those trips and enjoy the little things and the big things.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. Well, thank you for that advice. I’d like to get to a few audience questions that were sent in prior to the program. Alice asks, can you share more information about T-cell collection? A recent webinar mentioned that myeloma must be in good control. Can you share specifics about the bridging therapy prior to infusion?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Yes. So, again, the process is the lengthy process as we mentioned before. But for the actual T-cell collection, we will have approved you to get the therapy. Financially, we’ve cleared you. Socially, you’ve gotten your support systems and now we’re getting those cells out.  

We use a process called apheresis where a temporary catheter is placed under the skin, and it separates your white blood cells and then returns the red bloods and plasma back into the blood. And it sorts out those T cells. The process itself, you’re on the machine for anywhere for two or three hours. Hopefully, it’ll just be one day’s time. And then, they’ll manufacture those cells.  

So, during that period where we’ve put your cells and sent them away to wherever’s going to be doing the manufacturing, you’re going to need to get a treatment that’s going to keep you in remission from the myeloma. And it’s not going to prevent you from getting those cells safely back. So, we don’t want anything that’s too toxic for most people. So, what we’re doing now is we have that information that early on is better for myeloma to get these treatments. And so, the hope that bridging therapy won’t be as common of a thing anymore.  

Because now we’re selecting people that are – the myeloma’s just starting to act up. Let’s get those cells out, send them off, so we don’t have to do bridging therapy. We can just keep you – add a medication or take away another medication to keep you in remission. So, that’s the goal of bridging therapy. What’s that bridge to get your cells back in for some people? It might be a chemotherapy type of a thing. But for other people it’s just trying to get you that CAR T-cell collection and manufacturing so we don’t really have to change everything all up.  

And we’ve been very fortunate now that the wait lists have cleared in most institutions. CAR-T cell is available at more centers across the country and so we don’t have that backlog. And so, fortunately, bridging therapy will hopefully be a little bit less of a thing.  

Katherine Banwell:

We have another question. This one from Rita. What kind of monitoring takes places in the months following CAR T-cell therapy and what kinds of medicines are required afterward?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, excellent. So, the monitoring is usually on the short-term, within the first 30 to 60 days afterwards, oftentimes depending on what your blood counts are showing. You might have to get blood counts tested more frequently. So, that complete blood count shows you the white cells, the red cells. The white cells fight infection. Red cells carry oxygen. Platelets clot the blood. That’s a marker of how well your bone marrow is functioning. It also can be – those innocent bystanders can go low temporarily after this procedure.  

So, definitely those CBCs need to be tested, for some people weekly and for some people every other week. And your healthcare team will tell you how often. After that first two to three months and your blood counts are all in good shape, then we can just go oftentimes to a monthly monitoring of the myeloma labs. So, that’s the CBC and the chemistry panel but also the paraproteins in the blood and the urine get monitored.  

There’s also another test called a CD4 count that’s something that you wouldn’t have had beforehand. The CD4 count is an immune count that we want to be over 200. Oftentimes,  you’ll be on an antibiotic called Bactrim or an inhaled called pentamidine to lessen the chance of a certain kind of infection called PJP, or pneumocystis. So, those are those atypical infections that we’re now seeing with CAR-T cell and other therapies.  

And as I mentioned, acyclovir to protect against shingles is a medication but you’re not going to be on any anti-myeloma medications other than maybe a bone strengthener if you get that intermittently. Fortunately, after CAR-T cell, you don’t have any anti myeloma therapy as long as you’re in remission.  

Katherine Banwell:

We also received this question from a viewer named Rob. If you receive CAR-T therapy, how long does it last and have you seen remission for a long time?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

So, I’d like to tell Rob that I’ve seen a little bit of a remission and I’ve seen long-time remissions. Unfortunately, it goes back to the biology of the disease. People that have a more aggressive type of myeloma tend to not have as long of a remission but that’s not always the case. So, if you have what’s called a standard type of myeloma, which fortunately about 80 percent of the people have a standard or good type of myeloma, you can get an 11- to 24-month remission if you’ve had many prior therapies.  

Now, if we’re moving the CAR-T earlier lines of therapy, as in those two studies that I briefly mentioned with the Ide-cel and the Cilta-cel studies that are moving it to one to three prior lines of therapy, people are getting longer remissions.  

Unfortunately, I do not have a crystal ball. I can look at your disease genetics. I can look at how deep your remission status is and I can generally predict based on other studies how long of a remission you might get, but it’s not a guarantee. What works for one person might not work for the other so you take it with a grain of salt. We just say, “Gosh, this is a great therapy. We need to offer it to you while we have that window of opportunity. You’re in a good remission. We have a slot for you. We’re going to pick the best product for you. Let’s give you this option.” 

You might be one of those exceptional responders that are in remission for several years, which I do have people that have been in remission several years, fortunately.  

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. Well, thank you so much for the thoughtful responses to those questions. As we close out today’s program, can you talk about some of the ongoing research in CAR T-cell therapy and what you’re excited about?  

Dr. Beth Faiman:

Oh, my gosh. I am so excited about CAR T-cell therapy research. There are these what we call CRISPR gene edited technology, which is really personalizing the treatment in CAR-T.  

There’s what we call an off-the-shelf approach where we don’t have to manufacture one’s T cells to be a fighter. So, these CAR T-cell therapies are the kinds of clinical studies where if you are in a position where you want to hopefully get an earlier access to a great therapy, this CRISPR edited at – Caribou is what it’s called, that we have at my institution. That might be right for you.  

There’s also the different targets. For example, the Ide-cel and the Cilta-cel target what’s called BCMA or B-cell maturation antigen. Basically, the BCMA is expressed mostly on cancer cells and less so on healthy cells.  

And so, that’s what the target is for these current CAR-Ts. We have different targets. So, what does that mean for you? If you had a CAR T-cell therapy against BCMA or a bispecific against BCMA now we have these different targets so that gives you other options for remissions status. So, if you can, I am a big, strong advocate for clinical trials. Like I said, it’s getting better access. You have a healthcare team. There’s so much stigma associated with clinical trials, but every single person is a candidate for some sort of a trial or another.  

So, talk to your healthcare team or you can go to clinicaltrials.gov and then all the patient care organizations – International Myeloma Foundation, Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation, has access to clinical trial information as well for patients. So, yes, lots of good things. New targets. Off-the-shelf so you don’t have to manufacture. So, that represents new treatment options for many patients.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Faiman, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. 

Dr. Beth Faiman:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.  

Katherine Banwell:

And thank you to all of our collaborators. To learn more about myeloma and to access tools to help you become a more proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for being with us.  

PODCAST: Thrive | Advice for Managing Potential CAR T-Cell Therapy Side Effects

/in , , , , , , /by

 

Dr. Adriana Rossi, a myeloma expert and researcher, discusses how CAR T-cell therapy has revolutionized care, the process for undergoing this therapy, common side effects of this treatment, and advice for patients considering this option. Dr. Rossi also shares updates in CAR T-cell therapy research and explains what she’s excited about in myeloma care.

Dr. Adriana Rossi is Co-director of the CAR T and stem cell transplant program at the Center for Excellence for Multiple Myeloma at Mount Sinai Health System in New York City. Learn more about Dr. Rossi.

Download Resource Guide

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Hello, and welcome. I am your host, Katherine Banwell. Today’s program is part of our Thrive series, where we will discuss what to expect and how to manage side effects of CAR T-cell therapy.  

Before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you.  

Well, let’s meet our guest today. Joining us is Dr. Adriana Rossi. Dr. Rossi, welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Thank you so much. I am one of the codirectors of the CAR T program at Mount Sinai in New York City and thrilled to be with you today.  

Katherine Banwell:

Thank you. Since we’ll be discussing the ins and outs of CAR T-cell therapy, I thought we could start with your perspective as a researcher in the field. How has this therapy revolutionized myeloma care?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

It absolutely has. And I would say in time we’ve had – this is now our fourth revolution. Stem cell transplants was the first time we actually achieved what we call a complete remission in at least a few patients, making myeloma disappear.  

Then, we had the second revolution with the novel agents. Now, we had drug therapies that were giving us these complete remission still at about a 30 percent rate. And then, the monoclonal antibodies were the most recent revolution. And currently, we are in what we call the T-cell redirection.   

It really has been driven by CAR T-cell therapies and something we call bispecific antibodies, which also use your patient’s T cells to kill the myeloma. We are now seeing absolutely unprecedented response rates, meaning almost everybody is responding. Also, depth of response, which we have really learned over time is a way to translate into long remissions. So, every long, very significant remissions. And the early data in patients who have had many prior lines.  

Katherine Banwell:

So, it is very encouraging news.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

It is very encouraging.  

Katherine Banwell:

Let’s start with an overview of CAR T-cell therapy. Could you explain how the treatment works?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Absolutely. So, CAR T specifically is speaking to T cells, which are a normal part of the immune system that have been engineered and modified. So, normal part of the immune system T cells have a lot of checks and balances and are constantly looking for cells that are supposed to be killed. For example, something that has a virus in it.  

When we engineer the CAR T-cells, we modify, one, the target so they are now trained to find the specific target on a tumor cell. And we remove all these checks and balances. So, once that T-cell finds its target, it can kill it without all of the side effects. The way normal T  cells communicate with other members of the immune system are something called cytokines. So, we will touch on that a little later, I think, but we also, again, interfere with that communication by engineering the cells.  

Katherine Banwell:

Which patient type qualifies for CAR T?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

In 2023, we currently have two approved commercial CAR T products and we do have a number of them in clinical trials. The two that are commercially approved specifically are targeted for patients who are in their fourth line of therapy, so the myeloma has learned to come back that four times.  

They’ve been exposed to all of the regular drugs, which by four lines most patients will have been at least once. We look for patients whose kidney function is at a safe level to tolerate the therapy. And other than that, it’s really having caregiver support and overall ability to come to a center that specializes in this.  

Katherine Banwell:

What’s the process for accessing the CAR T?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

The first important part is remembering they exist and having the referring physician remember to send patients our way. Once patients come to our center, they will meet with coordinators, both the clinic coordinators to make sure we have all of the testing, to make sure the heart is healthy enough, the lungs are healthy enough. There’s no infections brewing.  

Financial coordinators to take care of all of the organizing. If patients are coming from further than 30 minutes, setting them up for a place to stay in the city, transportation aid, all of those things. Once we decide to go ahead and have our collection date set, that sort of starts the actual process. Since most of our patients have had stem cell transplants before, there is that point of comparison. I think one of the most important things to remember is CAR T is not stem cells.  

So, while they’re both the cellular therapies, the patient experience is vastly, vastly different. It starts with a collection, where in stem cells you need several days of injections and maybe several days of collection. T-cell collection is a one-day event. We get what we get and then we are going to manufacture them and we can grow them in a Petri dish. There is no minimum and there is no instigating injections to get them going.  

Once they’re collected, the cells are then sent for manufacturing, which may take from four to eight weeks. During that time, patients usually receive what we call a bridging therapy, which is some kind of therapy to keep the myeloma at bay. Not to get rid of it but to keep it under control so that once the cells are ready the patient is also ready. Going into CAR T with growing myeloma can increase the side effects.  

Katherine Banwell:

Go ahead.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

I will give you just the final bit. Once the cells are ready, then we plan to give chemotherapy to get the patient’s T cells to not put up a fight. That’s called lymphodepletion. We infuse the cells and they’re now with us for two weeks in the hospital and usually two weeks after.   

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. So, I was going to ask how long patients are in the hospital for the procedure. So, that explains that. So, it is about two weeks. What signifies that a patient is ready to be released and go home?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

The reason patients are in the hospital is a very classic expected toxicity experience. So, they’re in the hospital for us to observe, watch. If it happens, which about 80 percent of the time there will be some toxicity for us to address – one that toxicity has resolved, they’re then okay to go home.  

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. That is great advice. Thank you. Of course, we know that CAR T-cell therapy comes with some potential side effects. Let’s talk about some of those side effects and how they’re managed. You mentioned cytokine release syndrome earlier. Let’s start with that. What is it, exactly?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Yes. As I mentioned, cytokines are molecules that the cells of the immune system use to communicate with each other. With this therapy, we are asking the T cells that have been infused to expand, meaning make multiple copies of themselves, and sweep through the body looking for myeloma and basically picking a fight with them.  

So, CRS is what happens when the T cells are too good at their job and they overachieve and then picking a little fight kind of make a big ruckus. The result is what we call inflammation, which the patient will experience usually as a fever.  

But if it does not go – if it continues to go unchecked, that fever can be accompanied by low blood pressure because of these inflammatory markers, difficulty breathing or low oxygen levels. And all of these things are now vastly prevented. CRS is usually treated very quickly and doesn’t get to these higher grades, more complicated fields.  

Katherine Banwell:

How is CRS managed?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

We have a couple of very good antidotes. CRS by itself is not just a fever. Certainly, a fever in any patient who is undergoing these kinds of therapies, we will try to rule out any infections. But there are markers in the blood that we can follow. When the blood markers and the fever occur at the same time, we know that cytokines are driving that effect. If it seems to be driven by something we call IL-6, we use tocilizumab (Actemra). If it seems to be driven by IL-1, we use anakinra (Kineret). These are all drugs that are themselves monoclonal antibodies which then will shut down that overreaction and cool things down.   

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. Another possible side effect is neurotoxicity. Would you define that term for us?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Yes. That one is harder to define because neurotoxicity in itself is very broad. We usually think of something called ICANS, which is the neurotoxicity associated with the effector cells. That specific neurotoxicity tends to happen in conjunction with CRS.  

And while CRS probably occurs in about 85 percent of patients, the ICANS is usually in the order of 5 percent. So, much, much more rare. And the antidote for that, which most patients know, love, and hate, is steroids.  

Katherine Banwell:

Ah, yes.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

I should mention there are other parts of neurotoxicity which I think the most concerning is something that has been known as Parkinsonian symptoms. It’s really just movement disorder. These are exceedingly rare and so we haven’t had a chance to learn very much because there are so few patients who have had this complication. We have learned from the first six patients who had this how to avoid it. And so, I think it’s now even more rare and it really goes into patient selection, to making sure, as I mentioned, that the myeloma isn’t growing very much.  

We monitor to see if the T cells grow too fast, if the CRS is of a high level. These are all predictors of delayed neurotoxicity.  

Katherine Banwell:

What are the signs of neurotoxicity in a patient?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Very specifically, for the ICANS, we have tool called the ICE tool, which is a series of questions to test memory and attention and ability to write and understand and speak. So, most commonly, it would be an inability to speak properly or, if someone is writing a sentence, it’s really a very classic finding. It is no longer spread across the page.  

These are not subtle findings. Part of, again, being in the hospital is to allow us to have this tool twice a day and look for these signs very early on, interfere with their development by giving the patients steroids – usually for a day or two – and resolving it.  

Katherine Banwell:

So, that’s how neurotoxicity is managed, then.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Yes.  

Katherine Banwell:

And is there a potential for long-term issues associated with neurotoxicity?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Certainly, there is always the potential. But the vast majority – again, the ICANS tend to be self-limited while the patient’s in the hospital, and that is why we’re watching during that window. The delayed neurotoxicities, in addition to these very rare movement disorders, we do see some cranial nerve palsies. The seventh cranial nerve, usually recognized as Bell’s palsy, has happened a few times. We really don’t understand the mechanism of what is driving it. It’s inflammation but why there, why that way. So, we tend to use acyclovir, which is the classic treatment for Bell’s palsy and steroids.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Rossi, a suppressed immune system is something that a patient undergoing CAR T-cell therapy should consider. What does it mean and what precautions should patients take?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

That is such a good question and it is specifically true for patients who are receiving therapies that target BCMA, which both commercial CAR Ts at the moment target.  

Because it is such an effective therapy at bringing down cells that express BCMA, your immune cells that make antibodies, one of the side effects is the immunoglobulins, which are the antibodies, are all very, very low. So, that is one level of immunosuppression.  

The other is the chemotherapy that we use to quiet the T cells can also lower all the blood counts. So, red blood cells and platelets may be low as well and those are not involved with immunity and can be transfused. So, that is a supportive mechanism. For the immune therapies, we usually use IVIG, which is intravenous immunoglobulins to support the patient until they’re able to make their own.  

We also protect them from viral infections with acyclovir or valacyclovir. Protect them from something called PJP pneumonia, which is a virus that specifically appears when you’re very immunosuppressed. Should their neutrophil count be low, that is another type of white blood cell – make sure they’re protected with antibiotics.  

Katherine Banwell:

Is there a typical timeframe for the immune system function to return?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

I would say a year is a good time but it’s a very unpredictable wave. So again, unlike stem cell transplant where you have a clear time where the cells are low, they recover, they stay recovered, we have noticed for some patients, they may have low blood counts just during the first month and then be recovered. Some will have no problems in the first month and it’s in the weeks to follow that suddenly either the reds, or the platelets, or the white count may need support.  

And in very rare instances, out to a year, they’re still needing support, sometimes say a growth factor injection once a week.  

Katherine Banwell:

So, how is it monitored over time?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

We monitor all those different levels of the immune system. So, we check on the CBC, which is the very common blood counts. We also look at what is called a lymph panel to look at the different types of T cells and make sure that they are recovering. Those usually take about three to six months to recover. The white count, again usually by Day 30, but there are some cases of delayed recovery. And the immunoglobulins, which is the antibody level, we also monitor monthly.  

Katherine Banwell:

What other side effects should patients who are considering CAR T-cell therapy be aware of?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Really, those are the big three. I would say others are very rare but the low blood counts is the one that lasts beyond the time in the hospital. And the rare neurotoxicities that are delayed.  

Katherine Banwell:

When should patients mention any issues they’re experiencing to their healthcare team?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Always. That is a very, very, short answer. Please don’t ever think you are bothering the doctor. I hear that a lot. “Oh, I didn’t want to bother you.” It is never a bother. This is why we are here. So, anything that is happening that is out of the ordinary, please let your healthcare provider know. If it is not something that needs our attention or we don’t need to worry about, we will tell you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Better safe than sorry.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Always.  

Katherine Banwell:

And how does a care partner factor into the process? It seems having a good support system is essential.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

It absolutely is. I think the entire journey of myeloma really is what I would consider a team sport. It is not something we go through alone. And the more members of the team you have the better. So, as your medical team, we always value the caregivers. For CAR T specifically, since there is this concern for infections and neurotoxicity, caregivers are really essential. They should be well informed, know what to look for, and be the ones to reach out to us if anything is concerning. Again, any symptoms out of the ordinary, any fever, and really be a part of communicating with the medical team.  

Katherine Banwell:

Is there a period where patients are considered out of the woods from CAR T side effects?   

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Hard to say. Again, I like to emphasize that most patients by Day 30 or 60 are back to work, are feeling themselves, are recovered. Another contrast to stem cell transplants. It’s a much faster recovery. I have patients who within 30 days are eager to go back to work and don’t know what I was talking about or why I insist on seeing them so much.  

But some patients, again, out to a year, may still be requiring visits for support in either the IVIG for the immunoglobins, growth factor support for their counts. So, there are outliers at both extremes. We follow the model of 100 days for recovery.  

Katherine Banwell:

Do some patient types do better than others?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Well, always yes. And we are still endeavoring to figure out who they are and why that is. There are things that we don’t know, can’t predict. But things that we do recognize are again bringing patients whose myeloma is under good control.  

So, instead of having a lot of disease or disease that is in a growth phase, we try to use the bridging therapy to optimize the patient, not only to improve the response, but also minimize the toxicities. 

Katherine Banwell:

Does age have an impact at all?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Not as much. We actually have just finished an 88-year-old patient whose hospital course was remarkably unremarkable, as we would like. I think another difference from stem cells, it is not as rigorous. While each patient, I think, should be part of that decision and that conversation, reviewing what is now a growing number of options and see if it’s right for them as an individual. So, age is a consideration, but frailty will always be the more important.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Rossi, we discussed the process of accessing CAR T-cell therapy, which can be a big undertaking. How do you counsel patients who are considering this treatment option? 

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Mostly, I want to make sure that they are well-educated and understand as much as we do and as much as we can convey. I am fortunate to be part of a big multidisciplinary team so there is social workers, clinical coordinators, other specialists, dentists, cardiologists, to give all of the perspectives. I like to make sure that they know what it is and also that they know what it isn’t. So, it is not a stem cell transplant and it is not another line of therapy that you just sign up for and go into blindly.  

So, making sure they’ve had all of their questions answered, and it’s not something they read on the Internet. They have spoken with one of the CAR T physicians, understand all of the steps of the process, and have questions to their very individual needs addressed.   

Katherine Banwell:

If a patient is interested in possibly doing CAR T-cell therapy, what questions should they ask their healthcare team?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

I think again making it personal to them. Does the team think they are a good candidate? Is this the right time? Because they may be a good candidate but not even need it at the moment. Or, again, there are things that we could do between now and the cells to optimize the success both in efficacy and toxicity.  

Understanding what side effects are expected for that individual because, again, we can usually judge these will be more likely or less likely. And then, do I have a plan in place to find the right center and continue the care and the monitoring near home after that?   

Katherine Banwell:

What are the alternatives if a patient decides CAR T is not right for them?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

I would say as part of this newest revolution and fairly comparable in novelty and method of action would be the bispecific antibodies. So, these are molecules.  

They are not cells. And they activate the patient’s own T cells and bring the T cells to the myeloma, causing very similar side effect profile and very similar effectiveness. The rates are a little bit lower but they are administered as mostly a subcutaneous injection that has to be dosed weekly or every other week. The contrast is it’s a continuous therapy, but it does allow us to adjust as we go, which the cellular therapy doesn’t.  

Katherine Banwell:

While there are approved CAR T-cell therapies for myeloma currently, there are also many others that are in clinical trials. Would you talk about some of the ongoing research in this area?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Absolutely. Again, while we celebrate the tremendous changes that these two CAR Ts have made to the field, they are both autologous, meaning we use the patient’s own T cells for manufacturing. They both target BCMA. And they are both what we call second generation T cells. So, other areas are to change the target. So, instead of just targeting BCMA, there are studies specifically targeting GPRC5D, which are coming down fairly soon. Rather than using the patient’s own T cells there are a number of products that use a healthy donor’s T cells, which are available immediately.  

So, we don’t need to go through the bridging therapy, and we don’t have to wait for the cells to be ready. And lastly, there are different manufacturing processes. As I mentioned, the ones we currently have may take up to eight weeks for manufacturing. There are some studies now where cells are basically manufactured, engineered, in 48 hours –  

Katherine Banwell:

Oh, wow.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

– and are ready to be infused so that they actually grow in the patient rather than in a Petri dish. So, lots of areas of exploration and I look forward to, in five years, being able to look back and see again how the field has changed.  

Katherine Banwell:

And I’m sure it will, by the sounds of it. Are there any trials introducing CAR T-cell therapy as an earlier line of myeloma treatment?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

There are. So, both the products that are now commercially available for the fourth line are being studied in earlier and earlier lines. We actually just this year got results of the CARTITUDE-4 study, which was in one to three prior lines, and expect that that will lead to an earlier approval in the very near future.  

And we have a number of studies, again, with both products looking at patients who have either high risk disease or don’t respond as well as we would like to their frontline therapy, and actually being used as part of that first line.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Rossi, what advice do you have for patients who may be hesitant to participate in a clinical trial?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Education. More than anything, understand what they are. Clinical trials come in all shapes and sizes. We have these exciting molecules that have to go into a first human at some point but we also have tried and true therapies that we know – for example, the CAR T – that is approved in these later lines. That same product is being now offered earlier. So, that has to be within a clinical trial because it’s not the approved indication.  

But it is a product that we know to be safe. We know that it works in advanced disease and are actually expecting that it will work even better in earlier lines. So, clinical trials is a very broad term. Understanding what the patient may be eligible for – meaning, what the study’s looking for – and then comparing that to what the patient is looking for. So, sometimes it’s even modes of therapy. So, if you’re specifically looking for an oral agent, there may be studies that don’t require injections or that many visits. So, really looking widely, speaking to your healthcare physician, and understanding what the options are.   

Katherine Banwell:

And if a patient is interested in possibly participating in a clinical trial, what sorts of questions should they ask?   

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Very, very good question. First, understanding what clinical trial. Each center will have their own combination. Some studies are available in multiple locations. Some studies are very institution specific. So, meeting with the research team and understanding what are the required testings, what is the required treatments, and what is the required follow-up, I think, is the first part.  

Clinical trials, in order for them to give us the power to generalize and learn lessons are very strict in trying to keep to the schedule just as specified and everything is much more contained. So, making sure that they again understand what they’re signing up for and what they’ll get out of it.  

Katherine Banwell:

What other myeloma research are you excited about?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Well, my focus is in CAR T and so I think, with bias, that is the most exciting part. But I did mention bispecifics. One of the things we need to concede is CAR T really requires you be at a cellular therapy center.  

Whereas, with the bispecifics, while for now experience is still building, the idea is that this is something that could be administered in any practice across the nation. So, being able to reach more patients and those also with different targets, different schedules, different combinations, was another very interesting field as well.   

Katherine Banwell:

As we close out this conversation, Dr. Rossi, I would like to get your take on the future of myeloma. What makes you hopeful?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Just looking back, I think. Again, in the 20 years that I’ve been fortunate enough to participate and see the changes, we have gone through, as I mentioned, three of the four revolutions in the field. And the speed with which each step forward then begets three or four more. As I mentioned, in five years I think we’ll look back and say, “Oh, how quaint, what we were doing in 2023.” So, the speed and the number of wins we’re getting and how quickly that’s translating into direct patient experience is really incredible.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. It seems like there’s a lot of progress and hope in the field.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

There absolutely is.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, Dr. Rossi, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.   

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Absolutely. It’s been my pleasure.  

Katherine Banwell:

And thank you to all of our collaborators. To learn more about myeloma and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for being with us today.   

Myeloma Research | CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials

/in , , , , , , , /by

Myeloma Research | CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What new CAR T-cell therapies are being studied in clinical trials? Dr. Adriana Rossi shares an overview of alternatives to CAR T-cell therapy, information about the latest CAR T clinical trials, and advice for patients that may be interested in participating in a trial.

Dr. Adriana Rossi is co-director of the CAR T and stem cell transplant program at the Center for Excellence for Multiple Myeloma at Mount Sinai Health System in New York City. Learn more about Dr. Rossi.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Understanding CAR T-Cell Therapy | How It Works and Who It’s Right For

Understanding CAR T-Cell Therapy | How It Works and Who It’s Right For

 What You Need to Know About Accessing CAR T-Cell Therapy

What You Need to Know About Accessing CAR T-Cell Therapy

 Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy | Key Advice From an Expert

Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy? Key Advice From an Expert

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

What are the alternatives if a patient decides CAR T is not right for them?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

I would say as part of this newest revolution and fairly comparable in novelty and method of action would be the bispecific antibodies. So, these are molecules.  

They are not cells. And they activate the patient’s own T cells and bring the T cells to the myeloma, causing very similar side effect profile and very similar effectiveness. The rates are a little bit lower but they are administered as mostly a subcutaneous injection that has to be dosed weekly or every other week. The contrast is it’s a continuous therapy, but it does allow us to adjust as we go, which the cellular therapy doesn’t.  

Katherine Banwell:

While there are approved CAR T-cell therapies for myeloma currently, there are also many others that are in clinical trials. Would you talk about some of the ongoing research in this area?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Absolutely. Again, while we celebrate the tremendous changes that these two CAR Ts have made to the field, they are both autologous, meaning we use the patient’s own T cells for manufacturing. They both target BCMA.  

And they are both what we call second generation T cells. So, other areas are to change the target. So, instead of just targeting BCMA, there are studies specifically targeting GPRC5D, which are coming down fairly soon. Rather than using the patient’s own T cells there are a number of products that use a healthy donor’s T cells, which are available immediately.  

So, we don’t need to go through the bridging therapy, and we don’t have to wait for the cells to be ready. And lastly, there are different manufacturing processes. As I mentioned, the ones we currently have may take up to eight weeks for manufacturing. There are some studies now where cells are basically manufactured, engineered, in 48 hours –  

Katherine Banwell:

Oh, wow.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

– and are ready to be infused so that they actually grow in the patient rather than in a Petri dish. So, lots of areas of exploration and I look forward to, in five years, being able to look back and see again how the field has changed.  

Katherine Banwell:

And I’m sure it will, by the sounds of it. Are there any trials introducing CAR T-cell therapy as an earlier line of myeloma treatment?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

There are. So, both the products that are now commercially available for the fourth line are being studied in earlier and earlier lines. We actually just this year got results of the CARTITUDE-4 study, which was in one to three prior lines, and expect that that will lead to an earlier approval in the very near future.  

And we have a number of studies, again, with both products looking at patients who have either high risk disease or don’t respond as well as we would like to their frontline therapy, and actually being used as part of that first line.  

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Rossi, what advice do you have for patients who may be hesitant to participate in a clinical trial?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Education. More than anything, understand what they are. Clinical trials come in all shapes and sizes. We have these exciting molecules that have to go into a first human at some point but we also have tried and true therapies that we know – for example, the CAR T – that is approved in these later lines. That same product is being now offered earlier. So, that has to be within a clinical trial because it’s not the approved indication.  

But it is a product that we know to be safe. We know that it works in advanced disease and are actually expecting that it will work even better in earlier lines. So, clinical trials is a very broad term. Understanding what the patient may be eligible for – meaning, what the study’s looking for – and then comparing that to what the patient is looking for. So, sometimes it’s even modes of therapy. So, if you’re specifically looking for an oral agent, there may be studies that don’t require injections or that many visits. So, really looking widely, speaking to your healthcare physician, and understanding what the options are.   

Katherine Banwell:

And if a patient is interested in possibly participating in a clinical trial, what sorts of questions should they ask?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Very, very good question. First, understanding what clinical trial. Each center will have their own combination. Some studies are available in multiple locations. Some studies are very institution specific. So, meeting with the research team and understanding what are the required testings, what is the required treatments, and what is the required follow-up, I think, is the first part.   

Clinical trials, in order for them to give us the power to generalize and learn lessons are very strict in trying to keep to the schedule just as specified and everything is much more contained. So, making sure that they again understand what they’re signing up for and what they’ll get out of it.  

Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy? Key Advice From an Expert

/in , , , , , , , /by

Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy? Key Advice From an Expert from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

CAR T-cell therapy can be a big undertaking, so what should you know when considering this option? Dr. Adriana Rossi shares advice for patients, including key questions to ask your healthcare team.

Dr. Adriana Rossi is co-director of the CAR T and stem cell transplant program at the Center for Excellence for Multiple Myeloma at Mount Sinai Health System in New York City. Learn more about Dr. Rossi.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Questions to Ask Your Doctor About CAR T-Cell Therapy

Questions to Ask Your Doctor About CAR T-Cell Therapy

 Myeloma Research | CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials

Myeloma Research | CAR T-Cell Therapy Clinical Trials

 How to Access Myeloma Financial Resources

How to Access Myeloma Financial Resources

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Rossi, we discussed the process of accessing CAR T-cell therapy, which can be a big undertaking. How do you counsel patients who are considering this treatment option? 

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Mostly, I want to make sure that they are well-educated and understand as much as we do and as much as we can convey. I am fortunate to be part of a big multidisciplinary team so there is social workers, clinical coordinators, other specialists, dentists, cardiologists, to give all of the perspectives. I like to make sure that they know what it is and also that they know what it isn’t. So, it is not a stem cell transplant and it is not another line of therapy that you just sign up for and go into blindly.  

So, making sure they’ve had all of their questions answered, and it’s not something they read on the Internet. They have spoken with one of the CAR T physicians, understand all of the steps of the process, and have questions to their very individual needs addressed.  

Katherine Banwell:

If a patient is interested in possibly doing CAR T-cell therapy, what questions should they ask their healthcare team?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

I think again making it personal to them. Does the team think they are a good candidate? Is this the right time? Because they may be a good candidate but not even need it at the moment. Or, again, there are things that we could do between now and the cells to optimize the success both in efficacy and toxicity.  

Understanding what side effects are expected for that individual because, again, we can usually judge these will be more likely or less likely. And then, do I have a plan in place to find the right center and continue the care and the monitoring near home after that?  

Monitoring Health After CAR T-Cell Therapy | What to Expect

/in , , , , , , , /by

Monitoring Health After CAR T-Cell Therapy | What to Expect from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

When does immune system function return to normal following CAR T-cell therapy? Dr. Adriana Rossi discusses how patients are monitored after the process, the expected recovery time for blood counts, and the importance of communication with your healthcare team at all times.

Dr. Adriana Rossi is co-director of the CAR T and stem cell transplant program at the Center for Excellence for Multiple Myeloma at Mount Sinai Health System in New York City. Learn more about Dr. Rossi.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Questions to Ask Your Doctor About CAR T-Cell Therapy

Questions to Ask Your Doctor About CAR T-Cell Therapy

 The Value of Myeloma Support Groups and How to Join

The Value of Myeloma Support Groups and How to Join

 Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy | Key Advice From an Expert

Considering CAR T-Cell Therapy? Key Advice From an Expert

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Is there a typical timeframe for the immune system function to return?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

I would say a year is a good time but it’s a very unpredictable wave. So again, unlike stem cell transplant where you have a clear time where the cells are low, they recover, they stay recovered, we have noticed for some patients, they may have low blood counts just during the first month and then be recovered. Some will have no problems in the first month and it’s in the weeks to follow that suddenly either the reds, or the platelets, or the white count may need support.  

And in very rare instances, out to a year, they’re still needing support, sometimes say a growth factor injection once a week.  

Katherine Banwell:

So, how is it monitored over time?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

We monitor all those different levels of the immune system. So, we check on the CBC, which is the very common blood counts. We also look at what is called a lymph panel to look at the different types of T cells and make sure that they are recovering. Those usually take about three to six months to recover. The white count, again usually by Day 30, but there are some cases of delayed recovery. And the immunoglobulins, which is the antibody level, we also monitor monthly.  

Katherine Banwell:

What other side effects should patients who are considering CAR T-cell therapy be aware of?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Really, those are the big three. I would say others are very rare but the low blood counts is the one that lasts beyond the time in the hospital. And the rare neurotoxicities that are delayed.  

Katherine Banwell:

When should patients mention any issues they’re experiencing to their healthcare team?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Always. That is a very, very, short answer. Please don’t ever think you are bothering the doctor. I hear that a lot. “Oh, I didn’t want to bother you.” It is never a bother. This is why we are here. So, anything that is happening that is out of the ordinary, please let your healthcare provider know. If it is not something that needs our attention or we don’t need to worry about, we will tell you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Better safe than sorry.   

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Always.  

Katherine Banwell:

And how does a care partner factor into the process? It seems having a good support system is essential.  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

It absolutely is. I think the entire journey of myeloma really is what I would consider a team sport. It is not something we go through alone. And the more members of the team you have the better. So, as your medical team, we always value the caregivers. For CAR T specifically, since there is this concern for infections and neurotoxicity, caregivers are really essential.  

They should be well informed, know what to look for, and be the ones to reach out to us if anything is concerning. Again, any symptoms out of the ordinary, any fever, and really be a part of communicating with the medical team.   

Katherine Banwell:

Is there a period where patients are considered out of the woods from CAR T side effects?   

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Hard to say. Again, I like to emphasize that most patients by Day 30 or 60 are back to work, are feeling themselves, are recovered. Another contrast to stem cell transplants. It’s a much faster recovery. I have patients who within 30 days are eager to go back to work and don’t know what I was talking about or why I insist on seeing them so much.  

But some patients, again, out to a year, may still be requiring visits for support in either the IVIG for the immunoglobins, growth factor support for their counts. So, there are outliers at both extremes. We follow the model of 100 days for recovery.   

Katherine Banwell:

Do some patient types do better than others?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Well, always yes. And we are still endeavoring to figure out who they are and why that is. There are things that we don’t know, can’t predict. But things that we do recognize are again bringing patients whose myeloma is under good control.  

So, instead of having a lot of disease or disease that is in a growth phase, we try to use the bridging therapy to optimize the patient, not only to improve the response, but also minimize the toxicities. 

Katherine Banwell:

Does age have an impact at all?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

Not as much. We actually have just finished an 88-year-old patient whose hospital course was remarkably unremarkable, as we would like. I think another difference from stem cells, it is not as rigorous. While each patient, I think, should be part of that decision and that conversation, reviewing what is now a growing number of options and see if it’s right for them as an individual. So, age is a consideration, but frailty will always be the more important.   

What You Need to Know About Accessing CAR T-Cell Therapy

/in , , , , , , , /by

What You Need to Know About Accessing CAR T-Cell Therapy from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

If you’re interested in CAR T-cell therapy, how can you access this treatment option? Dr. Adriana Rossi details the process, including referral to a CAR T-cell specialty center, and discusses the necessity of a care partner when undergoing this treatment.

Dr. Adriana Rossi is co-director of the CAR T and stem cell transplant program at the Center for Excellence for Multiple Myeloma at Mount Sinai Health System in New York City. Learn more about Dr. Rossi.

See More From Thrive CAR T-Cell Therapy

Related Resources:

Understanding CAR T-Cell Therapy | How It Works and Who It’s Right For

Understanding CAR T-Cell Therapy | How It Works and Who It’s Right For

 Understanding Possible Side Effects of CAR T-Cell Therapy

Understanding Possible Side Effects of CAR T-Cell Therapy

 Monitoring Health After CAR T-Cell Therapy | What to Expect

Monitoring Health After CAR T-Cell Therapy | What to Expect

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

What’s the process for accessing the CAR T?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

The first important part is remembering they exist and having the referring physician remember to send patients our way. Once patients come to our center, they will meet with coordinators, both the clinic coordinators to make sure we have all of the testing, to make sure the heart is healthy enough, the lungs are healthy enough. There are no infections brewing.  

Financial coordinators to take care of all of the organizing. If patients are coming from further than 30 minutes, setting them up for a place to stay in the city, transportation aid, all of those things. Once we decide to go ahead and have our collection date set, that sort of starts the actual process. Since most of our patients have had stem cell transplants before, there is that point of comparison. I think one of the most important things to remember is CAR T is not stem cells.  

So, while they’re both the cellular therapies, the patient experience is vastly, vastly different. It starts with a collection, where in stem cells you need several days of injections and maybe several days of collection. T-cell collection is a one-day event. We get what we get and then we are going to manufacture them and we can grow them in a Petri dish. There is no minimum, and there is no instigating injections to get them going.  

Once they’re collected, the cells are then sent for manufacturing, which may take from four to eight weeks. During that time, patients usually receive what we call a bridging therapy, which is some kind of therapy to keep the myeloma at bay. Not to get rid of it but to keep it under control so that once the cells are ready the patient is also ready. Going into CAR T with growing myeloma can increase the side effects. Once the cells are ready, then we plan to give chemotherapy to get the patient’s T cells to not put up a fight. That’s called lymphodepletion. We infuse the cells and they’re now with us for two weeks in the hospital and usually two weeks after.  

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. So, I was going to ask how long patients are in the hospital for the procedure. So, that explains that. So, it is about two weeks. What signifies that a patient is ready to be released and go home?  

Dr. Adriana Rossi:

The reason patients are in the hospital is a very classic expected toxicity experience. So, they’re in the hospital for us to observe, watch. If it happens, which about 80 percent of the time there will be some toxicity for us to address – once that toxicity has resolved, they’re then okay to go home.