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An MPN Care Partner Shares Why He’s Optimistic About the Future

An MPN Care Partner Shares Why He’s Optimistic About the Future from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Care partner Jeff Bushnell, husband of myelofibrosis (MF) patient advocate Summer Golden, explains why he’s hopeful about their future together. Jeff shares key resources that have helped him stay educated and maintain optimism.

Summer Golden and Jeff Bushnell have been married for over 20 years. When Summer was diagnosed with myelofibrosis (MF), Jeff took on the role of care partner and advocate. Summer uses her years of theatre training and comedy to cope with her condition and help others, while maintaining positivity about the future.

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Transcript:

Jeff:

It’s important to educate yourself because the more you know the less fear can overcome you. And this particular disease – the research is happening so fast, and things are changing. In my estimation, they’ll find – right now, the only cure is a stem cell transplant. It’s normally not done for older people. That in itself is innately risky. I’m convinced, probably within the next five to seven years, there will be a cure for this disease that’s not a stem cell transplant.

The research is moving that quickly on it. And if you don’t follow the disease and the people that are working on it, the specialists, you’re gonna have a much greater chance of feeling powerless and getting overwhelmed by it. As Summer believes, attitude can have a huge, huge impact on how the course of your disease runs. And a doctor would tell you the same thing.

For me, it started with Patient Power. Patientpower.info, I believe is, what it is. They have a whole section for myeloproliferative neoplasms and myelofibrosis, and they’re short videos. And you get a chance to listen to the best doctors that are the head people in this, Dr. Mesa, Dr. V [Verstovsek], and Dr. Jamieson – all the people that are really the movers and shakers. They speak. And you also get a chance to hear other patient’s stories and how they’re dealing with it. And that will give you a much better idea of what you’re facing. And you can really understand things from there. And you can get your knowledge.

Fear comes from lack of knowledge. In my job as a pilot, I flew for 50 years. I very, very rarely was afraid because my knowledge was so great and was reinforced every year by continual training that I felt prepared to handle anything that might come across to me. Knowledge is really important. It will allay your fears dramatically.

When I started online and heard about people that had been journeying with this for 10 or 15 years, initially, I had thought – well, this is a year or two, and it’ll be the end. And then I realized, plenty of people have lived with this for a long, long time. And they had a journey, and they’re doing it successfully. And that gave me confidence.

The more people you can talk to about it, the more you can put your journey in perspective. And it’s really hard to put in perspective for this particular disease because it affects everybody vastly differently. Some cancers – the progression is very, very linear. Everybody kind of goes through the same thing. This one – it depends on the mutations you have in your blood and all kinds of things like that, and some people get really bad symptoms quickly.

Others, they don’t. But the more you know about how those things affect you, the more you know and can understand about what to expect. And the more people you talk to who have it, you can find out about their journeys. It helps put yours in perspective.

I’m optimistic because I really keep up to date on what’s going on. And I see the doctors that are in the forefront of this and the research that they’re putting in and the care they have for working on this disease and the knowledge they have, and I just am quite optimistic. And as I say, I’m following the medical developments extremely closely.

I went to the ASH Conference last year. And I’ve gone to another conference that our doctor spoke at. And I’m just kinda blown away by – I’m fascinated by the science.

My advice would be find out as much as you can about it and support each other in a way that works in your own marriage.

Summer and I approach life a little bit differently. And yet, one of the reasons we do so well together is we kinda have both ends of the spectrum covered. And I sensed that when I met her 20 years ago. And we brought something to the table that each of us needed. And if you can find that in your relationship with your significant other that has the disease, what you can bring to it, what they can bring to it, you can be a tremendous support for each other.

A Care Partner’s Journey: How Life Goes on After an MPN Diagnosis

A Care Partner’s Journey: How Life Goes on After an MPN Diagnosis from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Care partner Jeff Bushnell shares how he and his wife, patient advocate Summer Golden, have dealt with her myelofibrosis (MF) diagnosis. Jeff explains how online support and finding an MPN specialist were essential steps in helping them continue to live life to the fullest.

Summer Golden and Jeff Bushnell have been married for over 20 years. When Summer was diagnosed with myelofibrosis (MF), Jeff took on the role of care partner and advocate. Summer uses her years of theatre training and comedy to cope with her condition and help others, while maintaining positivity about the future.

 

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Transcript:

Jeff:

The worst part was initially. We didn’t get a myelofibrosis diagnosis.

It took about a month because in order to definitively diagnose it they have to take a bone marrow sample and send it to a pathologist and so on and so forth. So, all that time, I’m worrying about the possibilities. It could be leukemia or this, that, or the other thing. My way of handling and dealing with scariness – I’m a retired pilot – is to find out things, knowledge.

I spent a huge amount of time on the internet. The LLS Society has papers about it, and I read those.

And the more I got into it – once we found out it was myelofibrosis, I’ve read almost all of the papers that the doctors write for each other to find about this. That doesn’t interest Summer in the slightest. It interests me greatly. So, when we have an appointment with the doctor – when I’m talking to the doctor, it’s like two doctors talking to each other.

When Summer’s talking to her, they talk on a different plane. It’s much more about mental approach to things and that kind of thing.

And for me, when I think back to the beginning of when we had this and where we are now two years later, we’re living the life that we lived before she was diagnosed to be real honest with you.

We do everything that we did before she was diagnosed the same way we did it before, and it was a trip that probably everybody who gets diagnosed or deals with a person that has the disease takes. When it first happened, it hit us like bricks coming out of the sky hitting us on the face. Literally, when we first went to the hospital and she got the word that there was a problem – as I say, we lived in two separate houses – I literally was afraid to call her phone figuring she might be not there. I was that scared. And then, after we met our doctor, which was extremely fortuitous – when we went to the emergency room, the person that was there, she said these look like leukemia things.

So, she called the oncologist. The oncologist on call is our current doctor, Dr. Tiffany Tanaka, and she’s a specialist in this disease. It was like it was meant to be. And Dr. Tanaka asked the guy to do some other tests and then said, “Send her home, but tell her I need to see her this week.” So, we’re thinking all these horrible things. And its New Year’s weekend, so the clinic is closed for about five days, you know? We’re worrying and worrying and worrying.

We finally saw Dr. Tanaka, and it was like a breath of fresh air. This wonderful doctor has the ability to just communicate with the patients. I’m interested in the disease, so she communicated on my level. Summer is not interested in all the medical jargon, so she was able to explain to Summer what was going on and just very, very reassuring, very reassuring.

And then, I went and started getting information. That’s my way of coping with things. The first place I went was – I went to Patient Power and found a lot of information there.

And then I found the online myelofibrosis support group at Facebook. And that was very, very useful. When I started reading about the fact that some people had this for many, many years – then I said this is not – nothing’s gonna happen in the next year or two. We can go back to living. And once we learned more about it and spent more time with our doctor and Summer was able to live her life once she got taking the medicine – she takes Jakafi.

That controlled the basic symptoms, and we haven’t looked back. We just started living our life the way we had been living it before.

Is Laughter Really the Best Medicine? One Woman’s Mission to Help Others with MPNs

Is Laughter Really the Best Medicine? One Woman’s Mission to Help Others with MPNs from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Could laugher really be the best medicine? Patient advocate Summer Golden explains how she uses comedy to cope with her myelofibrosis (MF) diagnosis and shares her mission to inspire others.

Summer Golden and Jeff Bushnell have been married for over 20 years. When Summer was diagnosed with myelofibrosis (MF), Jeff took on the role of care partner and advocate. Summer uses her years of theatre training and comedy to cope with her condition and help others, while maintaining positivity about the future.

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Transcript:

Summer:

When I was initially diagnosed after some other false starts with an MPN, I was kind of shocked because I’ve never really been sick, and I don’t take medications, but I didn’t think about it – that sounds crazy; I can’t explain it. I just figured I’d be okay, and the main thing – I didn’t wanna give up this theater.

You know how when you’re my age, people talk about nothing but their illness sometimes? I just never been into that, so it wasn’t part of my personality.

I started doing comedy two years ago because a friend of mine was taking a comedy class, and I went to her showcase, and I thought, “I should try that, even though I’ll never be funny, I have no jokes, and I don’t know what I would say.” But, I went, and I did comedy in clubs for a while, and then I didn’t – I don’t really like drinking and dirty jokes, so I kind of got away from it off and on, and then, when I got into doing it about my myelofibrosis, then I saw a purpose in it, so I went back to it.

I was thinking about whether my life was gonna be changed, how this was gonna change me, so I emailed my comedy teacher in the middle of the night, and I said, “Do comedians ever talk about cancer, having it?” And, he said, “Only if they have it.” So, I emailed him back and I said, “I’m coming back to your class,” so I did. He assigned everyone to be in a showcase. I was gonna do mine about cancer. It was six weeks, so I had to find humor. I don’t know how I find it. I just kind of see things.

I was shocked because I thought people were gonna hate it, and I was gonna quit, and then I’d invited my doctor and two friends, so I thought I’d better not just not show up. But, people came up and said they were inspired. I was just amazed because I mainly –I don’t go out of my way to think of – I do think of things that are funny, but it’s just – it’s a real thing. I try to keep my comedy real.

It’s helped me by being in control. I don’t pay much attention to the symptoms because I’m kind of over them.

Just helped me feel like I’m doing what I can do, and so far, it seems to be working, as long as I get enough sleep.

How do I think comedy could help other people who have health problems? I can tell you one way I thought to help somebody. I wanna start a class for people, but so far, there hasn’t been a lot of interest, but I think I could really help people doing that because I know how to write comedy.

If they really wanna do that, they would be a type of person that has humor, and they could do it, but you’ve gotta realize sometimes, people get a lot out of being sick. There are a lot of rewards, and so, they might prefer to have those rewards. For my way of thinking, if they wanna do humor, it’ll make a big difference, and if somebody wants to do it, they could call me, and I’ll help them.

Could an MPN Clinical Trial Be Right for You?

Could an MPN Clinical Trial Be Right for You? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Is a clinical trial your best MPN treatment option? Dr. Ruben Mesa explains the clinical trial process and how patients may benefit from participating.

Dr. Ruben Mesa is an international expert in the research and care of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs). He serves as director of UT Health San Antonio MD Anderson Cancer Center in San Antonio, Texas. More about this expert here.

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Improving Life with MPNs: The Latest Research and How to Get Involved


Transcript:

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

There is much exciting research in myeloproliferative neoplasms. First, research trying to understand, why do people develop MPNs, and why do they progress. This is crucial research, and that this basic research to better understand the diseases will help us asses whether our treatments are having an impact slowing down the progression of the disease, and help us better design therapies that, hopefully, can cure these diseases.

Be reassured  that our goal as a scientific community is to cure the MPNs. Now, until we’re able to do that, we want to be able to best control them as best we can. So, the next level of research is really in new therapies; primarily drug-based therapies, but future therapies using the immune system; potentially using vaccine therapy to try to better control the disease to make the disease as neutral in your life as possible.

Our goal, short of curing the disease is to make the disease as invisible in your life as possible. Hopefully, minimal side effects, minimal symptoms, protected against risk of blood clots or bleeding, ideally, decreasing the risk of progression, and hopefully without any significant side effects from the medication your receiving.

So, that really is our goal.

 Clinical trials are a crucial way for us to improve the treatments that we have for any diseases. And in particular, in areas like myeloproliferative neoplasms where we have therapies, but we don’t have cures, clinical trials are crucial. Clinical trials are a structured way for you to be able to receive a new treatment. That treatment is closely monitored, and starts with a strong belief that that treatment is going to be beneficial for you.

Being on a clinical trial has many steps, but you are in the driver seat in each of them. So, you’re able to enroll in a study, and you’re able to decide at any point whether or not you’d like to continue on in that study. You are made clearly aware of what you’re receiving; what dose; what to expect at each and every step of that therapy.

It’s a treatment just like any other, but we use them because we are hoping that it will be better than the treatments that we have, and we do it on a clinical trial so that we can learn from that experience. If that drug is better, then we should probably expand its use and give it to other people, and have it be approved and used around the world. Or for whatever reason that therapy is not as helpful as we would like, then we learn from that, as well.

Why was it not helpful? Was it the wrong therapy? Was it targeting the wrong aspect of the disease? Were there side effects that made the therapy not beneficial? So, we learn a lot about it in either direction. Hopefully, individuals who participate in clinical trials will have a direct benefit themselves by being able to experience a new therapy that is, hopefully, better. But also, they do have the ability to help other patients now and in the future that will be facing the same disease they have.

How Does Genetic Testing Impact Your MPN Treatment Options?

How Does Genetic Testing Impact Your MPN Treatment Options? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can genetic testing results impact your treatment and treatment response? Dr. Ruben Mesa provides an overview of common mutations associated with essential thrombocythemia (ET), polycythemia vera (PV) or myelofibrosis (MF) and how identification of these mutations are moving research forward.

Dr. Ruben Mesa is an international expert in the research and care of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs). He serves as director of UT Health San Antonio MD Anderson Cancer Center in San Antonio, Texas. More about this expert here.

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Transcript:

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

We are learning much more about the genetics of Myeloproliferative Neoplasm, as we truly are about the genetics of many diseases. First, when I speak of genetics, these are not the genes we think of of inherited genes that are passed from mother and father, to son or daughter. These are the genes in ourselves that potentially can change over the course of our lives, and those changes or mutations can be associated with diseases.

So, what we have learned is that the genetic changes that are associated with myeloproliferative neoplasms are important, both in terms of predicting how the diseases might behave, and also, potentially in terms of therapies. The genetic changes fall into two different groups.

There’s a first group of the most common mutations that we think are important in driving the disease. The most common is the mutation in a protein called JAK2. That’s a mutation in about half of the patients with ET, half with PV – or half with myelofibrosis, and the majority with polycythemia vera. There is mutations in calreticulin. That’s about in a third of patients with ET, and a third with MF. And then, there’s mutations in MPL, which are present in a handful of patients with ET and with MF.

But in addition to those three mutations that tend to be mutually exclusive; patients tend to only have one of those, and there’s a small group of patients that do not have any of those three. But there’s another group of mutations that we have learned about.

That we are able to obtain on panels of sometimes anywhere from 40 to 100 genes that may or may not be changed or mutated in diseases like MPNs and the implications of what those pattern of changes in those mutations have for those patients. 

MPN Treatment Decisions: Which Path is Best for You?

MPN Treatment Decisions: Which Path is Best for You? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Ruben Mesa provides an overview of available treatments and reviews important factors to consider when choosing a therapy for essential thrombocythemia (ET), polycythemia vera (PV) or myelofibrosis (MF).

Dr. Ruben Mesa is an international expert in the research and care of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs). He serves as director of UT Health San Antonio MD Anderson Cancer Center in San Antonio, Texas. More about this expert here.

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Transcript:

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

The treatment landscape for myeloproliferative neoplasms is changing very rapidly. And in a good way, it’s increasingly having many more options for patients with Myeloproliferative Neoplasms. But I would separate it, really, into two groups. First, there are those individuals with essential thrombocythemia and polycythemia vera.

These individuals, we have newer therapies, such as interferons, we have, potentially, use of JAK inhibitors, we have some experimental therapies, as well as prior therapies we’ve used and become accustomed to, including hydroxyurea, phlebotomy, and aspirin.

But we’re learning much more about how to use these therapies; how to combine them; what constitutes success with these therapies; what should constitute a change in terms of therapy.

And there are new therapies being developed in the future that will impact this group of individuals with earlier MPNs: ET and PV.

For patients with myelofibrosis, the treatment is evolving. Patients with Myelofibrosis are affected in different ways. It is, in some ways, a more problematic disease.

There is evolution of our most impactful therapy, of stem cell transplantation. We have a better sense of in which patients we should consider that treatment, and how that can be applied in the safest way. We also have more medical treatments. We just saw in 2019 the approval of Fedratinib as the second specific JAK inhibitor approved for patients with myelofibrosis.

We, additionally, now have, truly dozens of clinical trials of new therapies in development that are in clinical trials right now that might be helpful for patients with myelofibrosis who have either had Ruxolitinib, or have a suboptimal response to Ruxolitinib, or sometimes even newly diagnosed patients. But I would say the future is very bright.

So, it is key with a treatment to first understand what is the treatment, what is the dose, and what is the goal? Each of the treatments have different goals. Some of the goals are to decrease the likelihood of blood clots or bleeding.

And frequently, we assess whether we’re protecting against the blood clots or bleeding by bringing down elevated counts. Is the plate account high, and we’re trying to bring it into the normal range? Is the hematocrit high, and we’re trying to bring that to under 45%? Is the white blood cell count high? Have we lowered each of those? First, it’s around controlling blood counts if that is the goal, as well as trying to decrease at risk of blood clots or bleeding.

 Second, if patients have symptoms associated with their MPN, sometimes itching, sometimes symptoms associated with high courts, sometimes enlargement of the spleen, or symptoms associated with the spleen, have we reduced or nullified those symptoms? Have we shrunk the spleen if the spleen was enlarged?

And then, finally, we assess our goal by trying to be sure that patients are not progressing or getting worse on the disease. So, depending upon the treatment, we first asses what is our goal? Is it to improve counts? Is it to improve symptoms? Is it to shrink the spleen? And have we accomplished one, two, or all three of those goals? Or was only one those our goals to begin with? 

Newly Diagnosed with an MPN? Start Here.

Newly Diagnosed with an MPN? Start Here. from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

If you’ve been diagnosed with an MPN, such as essential thrombocythemia (ET), polycythemia vera (PV) or myelofibrosis (MF), Dr. Ruben Mesa outlines key steps you should take, including a visit with an MPN specialist.

Dr. Ruben Mesa is an international expert in the research and care of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs). He serves as director of UT Health San Antonio MD Anderson Cancer Center in San Antonio, Texas. More about this expert here.

See More From the The Path to MPN Empowerment

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Diagnosed with an MPN? Why You Should Consider a Second Opinion

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An Expert Summary of Current MPN Treatment Options


Transcript:

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Patients who have a Myeloproliferative Neoplasm should consider seeing an MPN specialist at least at some frequency. The myeloproliferative neoplasms are not common illnesses. They’re not exceedingly rare, but they’re not common. And there is many nuances in terms of how we best diagnose the disease; the discussion we have with you regarding what are the treatment plans and goals, and then putting that plan into effect.

So, frequently, there’s a value in seeing someone who focuses on MPNs to help to establish that plan, and then frequently, there is a home physician, hematologist, or medical oncologist that works together along with the specialist in terms of managing the patient.

When patients first come for their visits related to an MPN, they have many questions. You know, they’re not common diseases, and people typically don’t have much experience with them. They’ve not had a family member that’s afflicted or someone at work. So, frequently, it comes on out of the blue. People will frequently, sometimes, go online and get a lot of information, but sometimes too much information; information that may or many not be appropriate for them.

So, there are many questions that are valuable, and I always advise patients to write down their questions ahead of time because sometimes in the heat of the moment, having a conversation, particularly with a new physician or provider, those questions may not, necessarily, be top of mind for them. So, we can go through those questions clearly.

I think key questions, I wouldn’t limit it to one key question, but I’d say I would put them in categories. 1.) Truly understanding the diagnosis; what’s the actual diagnosis that that patient has. 2.) What does the physician think are the risks that patient has? With each of the diseases, there are different risk classifications, and that will also help to give patients a frame of reference if they read other information about their disease online from highly reputable sources, or other educational sort of materials.

To understand, what is the recommended treatment plan. The plan may or may not included medications and understand what those medications are intended to do, and what their side effects may be, or what to anticipate.

It may or may not include aspirin, it may or may not include phlebotomy, or it may or may not include other therapies. So, understanding that diagnosis, understanding the risk, and understanding, what is the recommendation in terms of treatment.

Could an MPN Clinical Trial Be Your Best Treatment Option?

Could an MPN Clinical Trial Be Your Best Treatment Option? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Lindsey Lyle discusses the role of clinical trials as an MPN treatment option and how research is advancing the field.

Lindsey Lyle is a physician assistant at the University of Colorado Cancer Center, specializing in hematological malignancies with a subspecialty in myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs). More about this expert here.

See More From the The Path to MPN Empowerment

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An Expert Summary of Current MPN Treatment Options


Transcript:

Lindsey:

When considering treatment, remembering that clinical trials are an option – and often, a very good choice – is something that I really try to communicate to my patients. Generally, there’s a stigma around clinical trials as patients feeling like a lab rat or some sort of a study subject, and there is a perception that they’re not receiving as good of care as they would if they were not on a clinical trial. However, in my patients, I really try to dismiss this thinking because at this point in time, we do have really fairly good options for treatments with MPNs.

However, we do not have a cure for MPNs outside of a transplant, and our treatments are not perfect, and so, enrolling in a clinical trial really should be considered by patients and their providers as a very viable option.

It’s generally introducing perhaps a new way of approaching the disease treatment. Oftentimes, clinical trials are using a combination of agents, which is not necessarily available outside of the clinical trial.

And so, with clinical trials, we’re always trying to make something better. We’re trying to learn something, we’re trying to, No. 1, help the patient – so, my No. 1 goal in enrolling one of my patients in a clinical trial is to, first of all, help them, help control their disease, help them to feel better, and to live a long and good life. No. 2, we learn as we go along. Clinical trials are critical for drug development and for the future of treatment in patients with MPNs.

So, not only are our patients helping themselves, but hopefully, they are helping the future MPN patients who may come along and need a treatment. So, I always like to keep this really in the conversation when discussing treatments, and it may be up front, and it also may be after a treatment has stopped working that we consider a clinical trial.

So, there are also a lot of things that kind of go into clinical trial management and different requirements, so if a patient lives very far away, it may be challenging for them to come back to the academic center on a regular basis for routine clinical trial monitoring that’s required by the study, but if they live close by, I generally do recommend this. They are also associated with clinical research coordinators or clinical trial nurses.

And, these patients are monitored really very closely, and it’s kind of nice to have that extra person in it with you in the clinical trial, just another point person to discuss, perhaps, how you’re feeling or different questions or concerns as the clinical trial proceeds. So, when talking about treatments, in my opinion, especially in MPNs, clinical trials really should be one of the options that is first discussed when thinking about starting treatment, and especially if a treatment has stopped working.

So, there are very many exciting possibilities in MPN research right now. We have a lot of combination therapies, which I think I am most excited about, because we have a decent backbone of therapy at this point, but building on that and trying to maybe enhance the way that the backbone therapy works, and also to perhaps change the microenvironment of the bone marrow – basically, trying to reverse fibrosis.

So, there is currently a drug in clinical trial that is looking at this, and we are proceeding with this trial, and really hoping for the best, but I think that to combination therapies where we can put two things together that we think work really well together to help produce good outcomes – I think I’m most excited about that at this point.

Ready to Start an MPN Treatment? What You Need to Consider.

Ready to Start an MPN Treatment? What You Need to Consider. from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Lindsey Lyle discusses the factors that should be considered when choosing a therapy.

Lindsey Lyle is a physician assistant at the University of Colorado Cancer Center, specializing in hematological malignancies with a subspecialty in myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs). More about this expert here.

See More From the The Path to MPN Empowerment

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An Expert Summary of Current MPN Treatment Options


Transcript:

Lindsey:

When deciding about a treatment, it’s really important for the healthcare professional and the patient to discuss the patient’s goals.

The patient really is the key player here, and we as medical professionals are here to support the patient’s goals. So, what might work for one patient is not going to be necessarily the same treatment I would choose for a different patient. So, right off the bat, identifying the patient’s goals – and really, what are we trying to fix in one specific patient is going to look different from the next patient I see in that day.

For example, there are certain clinical manifestations of MPNs that need specific treatment approaches and maybe honing in on trying to help one clinical issue.

So, first of all, identifying the disease process – that’s No. 1. What is the diagnosis? No. 2: Coming up with a goals of care plan with the patient. What is causing them the most difficulty in their everyday life, and how are we going to fix that? That’s generally where I start.

Then, I discuss with the patients the different options for treatment, which either include therapies that are FDA-approved or enrolling in a clinical trial. And then, we really talk about pluses and minuses for each of these therapeutic decisions.

Patients may have different comorbidities, so they may suffer from different chronic diseases that may impact the treatment that is chosen with the patient and their provider, as well as discussing stem cell transplant, which we haven’t talked much about, but stem cell transplant is an option, and at this point, the only curative therapy for patients with myelofibrosis. And so, determining whether or not transplant is in the patient’s best interest is also a topic of discussion when deciding on therapy approach.

Essential Lab Tests for Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Patients

Essential Lab Tests for Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Patients from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

 Lindsey Lyle, a physician assistant specializing in MPNs, reviews the lab tests that should be administered following an MPN diagnosis and how the results could affect overall care.

Lindsey Lyle is a physician assistant at the University of Colorado Cancer Center, specializing in hematological malignancies with a subspecialty in myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs). More about this expert here.

See More From the The Path to MPN Empowerment

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Can Diet and Exercise Reduce MPN Symptoms?

Expert Tips for Managing MPN-Related Anxiety

Improving Life with MPNs: The Latest Research and How to Get Involved


Transcript:

Lindsey:

When somebody is diagnosed with an MPN, there are a variety of tests that are important for coming up with treatment strategies. And so, really, before starting treatment, it’s fairly imperative to have a CBC, or complete blood count, which was very likely done that led to the diagnosis of the MPN, but that’s very critical, as well as having a differential. This is basically just looking a little bit deeper at the white blood cells and their components, so that’s a critical part of the CBC, or complete blood count.

And then, having a chemistry panel, just to look at organ functioning, such as the kidney functioning and the liver functioning, as well as different electrolytes that may be indicative of something going on that would maybe impact treatment.

Additionally, having a bone marrow biopsy with molecular testing is advised. This is very critical in leading to the diagnosis of the MPN and then, also, really differentiating what subtype of MPN a patient may have.

The bone marrow is very critical for this purpose, and the genetic testing helps us to understand perhaps if a patient is having a higher-risk disease or a lower-risk disease and can help guide treatment as well. There are a variety of other chemistry tests that are done that can help specifically when looking at patients with polycythemia vera. This may be called an erythropoietin level.

Additionally, iron studies are generally recommended before starting treatment for MPNs, just to assess iron storage, availability, and that sort of component to the treatment may vary depending on that result. Additionally, if patients are having any sort of symptoms related to an enlarged spleen, generally, having an imaging study may be warranted if the symptom is quite severe and causing problems, and getting a baseline prior to starting treatment is generally a good idea.

When looking at a CBC, there are really three main cell lines that we monitor closely in MPNs regardless of the subtype, and this includes the white blood cell count, the red blood cell count or hemoglobin and hematocrit – those are measures of the total red blood cell count – and then, also, platelets. And so, these really are three different types of cells that your bone marrow produces that help with different functions.

And so, monitoring for any sort of changes within these three cell lines – white blood cells, red blood cells, or platelets – can really help us know maybe how the disease is changing, how a patient is responding to treatment, so these three key laboratory values are very necessary and really help us as providers and U.S. patients monitor progress, or for any changes in a positive way, or perhaps in a way that needs to be addressed.

Diagnosed With an MPN? Why You Should Consider a Second Opinion.

Diagnosed With an MPN? Why You Should Consider a Second Opinion. from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo

 Physician assistant Lindsey Lyle explains the importance of seeking a second opinion when diagnosed with an MPN.

Lindsey Lyle is a physician assistant at the University of Colorado Cancer Center, specializing in hematological malignancies with a subspecialty in myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs). More about this expert here.

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Transcript:

Lindsey:

When a patient is initially diagnosed with an MPN, seeking a second opinion is generally a very good idea, especially if patients are perhaps in an area where they do not have access to academic medical center.

The reason is that MPNs are such a small percentage of blood cancers – and, blood cancers in and of themselves are very rare, so MPNs are very rare, and especially in rural places, physicians do not have access or experience so much with MPNs. So, especially in those scenarios, I always advise a second opinion.

However, even within the academic medicine world, for example, if a patient is referred to me by their primary care physician or our institution, we always offer patients to seek a second opinion. Really, this is to gather information and either encourage the patient because the recommendation is the same or also to perhaps have a different idea for treatment that may fit the goals of the patient better, and so, I’m always telling patients to seek second opinions.

Ask the MPN Expert – Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju

Ask the MPN Expert – Dr. Pemmaraju

“Ask the Expert” session with MPN specialist Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju from The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center.


Transcript:

Andrew: And greetings from near San Diego, Carlsbad, California. I’m Andrew Schorr from Patient Power. Welcome to this patient empowerment network program, and thanks to Incyte Corporation for helping make it possible. They have no editorial control. I’m a myelofibrosis patient, have been for several years, so I’m vitally interested in this. Welcome to our MPN community, and welcome to one of our favorite experts joining us from MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. There’s Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju. You can see behind his desk there all the working on the cures of tomorrow, but Naveen, thank you so much for being with us.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Thanks for having me, Andrew. My pleasure.

Andrew: Okay. Let’s get right started. We’ve gotten all sorts of questions in. If you have a question, send it to MPN@patientpower.info, but we’ve gotten a lot already and I’ll start to buzz through them over the next 30 minutes. This question is from Cynthia and she says, “I was diagnosed with ET (Essential Thrombocythemia). I’m JAK2 positive,” so she has that JAK gene. “When I was 66 years old,” now she’s 68, I’m about to be 68 as well, “What markers on my blood work, asides platelets, are important for my doctor to watch? What indicates a need for another bone marrow biopsy?”

Dr. Pemmaraju: Well, thanks, Andrew. And thanks to the question from Cynthia out there. This is very important. This is what we talk about day-to-day, week-to-week in the clinic. There are a couple of perimeters outside of the platelets. One, I would say the most important for us to watch are the other of the big two. That’s your hemoglobin number, also known as anemia; if it’s too low, or polycythemia, if it’s too high, and then the white blood cell count is also very important. Again, if too high, or too low, it can tell us what’s going on.

With ET, the key thing is it can transform, or change into any of the other MPNs. For example, PV (polycythemia Vera), myelofibrosis, or – and I hate to mention it, but it does happen five, maybe seven percent of our patients, where the disease can go to Acute Myeloid Leukemia, AML. So, distinct blood count changes, either too high, or too low, can give us clues if the MPN is changing, or in fact, going to AML.

And so, the answer for a repeat bone marrow is based on that, which is, let’s look together, patient and provider to see if there are subtle or avert changes in the blood counts that are markedly different from the previous visit, rather than having a pre-prescribed, every three months, or every six months type of a deal.
Andrew: But, Naveen, with all you’re doing now with sophisticated testing, do you still have to poke us in the hip, or couldn’t they just do it from our arm?

Dr. Pemmaraju: I wish, Andrew. I think this is very important. I think with the juxtaposition, you have this sophisticated gene panel testing, JAK2 CALR, MPL, and yet we’re still sticking a needle in people’s backs in a very painful procedure. Nothing still has overmatched as the gold standard, the bone marrow aspiration biopsy. So, for now, we’re – pun intended, I guess – stuck with this procedure. But your point is a good one. For example, with bone marrow transplant, can you believe it nowadays, they’ve moved from not having to exclusively do it from bone marrow source to peripheral blood, so I think you’re on the right track and we need to work on different ways of accessing this important information.

Andrew: Okay. One thing about bone marrow biopsy, it doesn’t have to be painful. It’s uncomfortable, but it doesn’t have to be painful if you have somebody experienced doing it.

Dr. Pemmaraju: I wanna emphasize how right that is because at least here, at our center at MD Anderson, as you know, we have a team that is dedicated to doing it many, many people, many repetitions doing it, so there might be local discomfort, but a lot of our patients do not experience pain. I’m glad you brought that up.

Andrew: Right. And that’s been my experience both there, and at other major centers. Okay. Here’s a question from Denise. Denise says, “I have PV and I’m trying to improve my health by making smoothies containing large amounts of dark green vegetables, such as spinach, kale, and watercress. I’ve been warned by some members of our community that these foods will increase iron and raise the hematocrit, putting me at risk. Is that true? And should people with PV avoid these foods that are high in vitamin K?”

Dr. Pemmaraju: Well, this is an important question and I remember five to 10 years ago we would say things like, “Well, we don’t really know the answer,” or you know, “Diet doesn’t really have anything to do.” But now with more and more understanding of the total therapy for patients and approach to the whole body, I think this is an important question. So, yes, iron levels do matter. Too low, then you’re iron deficient. (That can definitely happen in our patients.) Too high, potentially may fuel the fire, if you will, for polycythemia Vera.

So, I think iron levels are important to watch and certainly can be increased by what our question is being asked about. But there’s another aspect, too, that some of the medications that we prescribe and take. One example is Coumadin, or Warfarin that a lot of our patients know, which is a high-level blood thinner. It’s an anticoagulant. And man, oh, man, that is exquisitely dependent on the vitamin K pathway. So sensitive, that in some patients in some cases even salad consumption, or spinach, so healthy foods because of the vitamin K level in them can alter this level. It’s called the INR. And so, it’s something we have to watch out for.

So, not only in terms of iron metabolites, but also drug-to-drug interactions. So, it is always best to mention these things when we’re going on new medications.

Andrew: Right. Talk to your doctor.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Talk to your doctor.

Andrew: What you’re doing –

Dr. Pemmaraju: Everything.

Andrew: – what you’re eating. Yeah. Okay. Here’s a question from Sally. Sally says, “I have ET with the MPL mutation. So, I have JAK, but there’s also MPL. I believe, not much is know about my mutation. Can you shed light on it, or me and our community here today?”

Dr. Pemmaraju: Yeah, great question. So, when I look at these mutations as the big three, I go back to the time of William Dameshek, who hypothesized in the ‘50s and ‘60s that MPNs would be a unified group of diseases; ET, PV, and MF. And now, 67 years later, we’ve proven that. So, JAK2, we’ve known about since 2005. The most common, most major recurring mutation, fifty to 60 percent of patients of myelofibrosis. Then in 2013, 2014 the CALR mutation was elucidated. Can you believe, that’s only been four, five years. That’s the second most common. But there’s a third of the big three. That’s the least common, the MPL; MPL mutation.

That’s a mutation in something called the thrombopoietin receptor (TPO), which is in charge of helping to stimulate and make platelets. So, in terms of MPN patients, it does make sense and it has something to do with platelets, and that axis. It is the least common; by far the less common of these three, so I would say maybe something to the point of three to seven percent of our patients will have it.
Up until recently, we didn’t know if it had any prognostic significance, but our Italian colleagues published a very nice paper in Blood a few years ago, independent of the IPSS risk, that I’m sure we’ll talk about later. That if you just take patients with myelofibrosis, not ET and PV, you can stratify our patients based on the mutation risk. And not everyone knows about this.

For example, in this scoring, CALR mutation alone is the best prognosis for our patients. JAK2, or MPL is what’s called an intermediate prognosis, and the so-called triple negative, if you don’t have any of these big three, the implication being that you likely have something else, like ASXL1, then those patients tend to have the worst prognosis. So, MPL helps us to diagnose and confirm an MF diagnosis, and it also may have prognostic significance in our modern era.

Andrew: Okay. I don’t want people to freak out because this is a moving target as they learn and say, “Oh, my god. I have triple negative…

Dr. Pemmaraju: That’s right.

Andrew: Right. Okay? Because there’s progress going on all the time.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Well said.

Andrew: This is what they’re learning now. Okay. Now. Here’s the big one and you mentioned it. You said, a small percentage of us with myelofibrosis have the risk of progressing to AML. I know there been a lot of new drugs now either approved, or in development for AML. And some that help people who have secondary AML.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Oh, yes.

Andrew: Right? But tell us about the risk of progression, and then what do you do about it?

Dr. Pemmaraju: Right. So, that’s a great topic, and as you know, you’ve been doing this for so long now. This has often been a very not great part of the conversation, but it’s an exciting time for our patients based on the research I’m about to share. So, the first part is progression to AML, which we touched on earlier. We do have an objective prognostics scoring system. Actually we have so many scoring systems now that many of our patients are starting to see them.

But the IPSS, or International Prognostics Scoring System, was first developed by our colleague, Cervantes et al, this is right before 2010, so ’07 to ’09. That one is supposed to be applied at diagnosis and based on five of these risk factors, we can prognosticate, or tell which of our patients are at a higher risk for AML. And so, a lot of our viewers ask that. So, it is true. Age – over a certain age, white count of 25,000, circulating blasts, constitutional symptoms, and anemia made up that original five.

Since that time, there are dynamic scoring systems, DIPSS, DIPSS+ and others that include, or modify as some of those risk factors. So, we can tell, at least based on a textbook impression, who has a higher likelihood of going to AML. Once our patients go to AML, there’s a lot of hope now. There have been four – count them – four new FDA approvals for AML in just the last 12-24 months. They apply to different segments of AMLs, two of them are targeted therapy, so one drug called Midostaurin hits the FLT3 inhibitor, one drug hits the IDH1 and 2. Actually those are two separate drugs.

The drug you were referring to had a code name CPX-351, or VYXEOS, and it does have an approved label for so-called secondary, or therapy-related AML. Although I will caution our viewers that – MPN patients, specifically, we’re not included in those early data sets. They were more geared towards patients with MDS leading to AML, but the principle is there for us.

And then finally there’s another drug called Gemtuzumab or Mylotarg. So, you have four FDA approvals, ongoing clinical trials with combination therapy, excitement and ongoing investigation for CAR-T cells, optimizing stem cell transplant, and then combining possibly MPN drugs with AML drugs in a clinical trial setting. So, I think this is actually a very, very important time to talk about AML in all of our MF and MPN sessions.

Andrew: Okay. Just one brief question, and – if someone like me, where I’m on Jakafi myself, but if that sort of poops out, or that, or another medicine is not working for me, and I’m developing AML, do you feel now it’s a more hopeful time than it’d had been previously?

Dr. Pemmaraju: I do, Andrew, and you know me. I used the word ‘hope’ very seriously and very carefully. Before with AML – and I mean, just five to seven years ago, it was not as hopeful of a time for us, as researchers, and for our patients. Not just because of the FDA approvals. That obviously is very encouraging and applies to a lot of our patients, but also because of the funding, the research, and the ideas for combination chemotherapies, and the emergence of these immune therapies. I think it’s a hopeful time for all of us involved with AML.

And specifically as you were mentioning this secondary, or post-MPN, or post-MDS AML, which is largely been an urgent unmet medical need.

Andrew: Okay. And just to everybody understands, AML, Acute Myeloid Leukemia, so it’s acute and as has been in the past a five alarm fire and now they’re developing medicines for that. All right. Let’s go on. Bonnie has a question. “I have myelofibrosis and my only symptom is that my spleen is enlarged. I’m on Hydroxyurea, but hesitant to switch to Jakafi or Ruxolitinib. Assuming no real discomfort and just moderate weight loss and stable blood counts, does an enlarging spleen itself cause problems?” And also, I guess the bigger question, Naveen is, is there a penalty for waiting if there is a treatment that might line up with what you got?

Dr. Pemmaraju: You’re right on. Yeah. This is very, very serious, important topic. So, for the first part of the question, the spleen itself being enlarged can in fact cause some really, really big problems for a lot of our patients. It is true, as the questioner’s asking, that one can have mild splenomegaly. So, a spleen that’s slightly enlarged, not yet causing physical symptoms of early satiety, which means getting full fast, or physical discomfort, but a lot of patients do have that. So, yes, a big spleen alone can cause not only local problems, but also systemic. Because again, it’s a disease of cytokines; messengers and proteins that are being scattered all throughout the body, causing the body to feel flu-like symptoms, or fatigue.

Now, the studies for Ruxolitinib are very specific. These are two Phase 3 studies, they are called Comfort 1 and 2, published in the New England Journal five six years ago now. And they did include patients with intermediate to, or high-risk disease. Or intermediate to high-risk disease, shall we say. And although the spleen itself doesn’t come out in the scoring system, some position is that it should be patients with more advanced, or higher scoring diseases than say someone with lower risk disease.

So, with the trial data that we have we know a couple of things. 1) The drug got approved in those more advanced patients. 2) There was early crossover that was allowed. So, one of the comfort studies, Andrew, was as you know, randomize to placebo. So, no active therapy, and one was best available therapy. Even with the early crossover allowed to the Ruxolitinib, both are not showing overall survival benefit. Translated into more layman’s terms, what that means is, it does appear, maybe, possibly, that if you got the drug at the beginning early on, there looks to have been some long-term benefit.

We won’t know that until further studies are done, and those studies are being planned. Those are called ‘early intervention’ studies, so people at a lower, earlier stage, low risk, Intermediate 1, and I think we’ll all be eager to see how that benefits our patients.

Andrew: Okay. Great. So, the penalty for waiting – right now it appears there could be a penalty. In other words, it could be better to get on it. Don’t wait. If you and your doctor agree, there’s a therapy for you.

Dr. Pemmaraju: I think that’s exactly the resource position to take, which is I think that – I believe that there are a subset of our patients who exactly fit what you said. They are symptomatic, out of proportion to the risk scores that are available. The spleen is highly enlarged, although they have lower intermediate risk by IPSS. And that’s exactly the are of investigation for myself, and our colleagues. And even in the clinic there might be some role to assessing patients as you said like that. So, it shows you the limitation of these text book scoring systems and how much research we have left to do.

Andrew: Okay. Well, you know more than you did before, so, I –

Dr. Pemmaraju: Well said.

Andrew: – I’m happy about that. Okay. So, here’s a question from Jane. She says, “I have myelofibrosis, but it’s not progressing, and I’m CALR negative.” So, that’s one. “I’m JAK negative.” That’s two. “And I’m waiting to hear if I’m actually triple negative, as you said, which would be JAK, CALR, and MPL. Are there medicines to slow progression for me?”

Dr. Pemmaraju: Well, that’s the ultimate question. Isn’t it? So, the first concept is this triple negative. And if our viewers have heard that before you have, that was borrowed from the breast cancer literature, which was a similar sentiment, which is having the top three markers negative. And just in that case, as in RMF, the supposition is the same, that that means that you have a higher risk disease.

But going from negative to positive, what it does mean now with the new sequencing and molecular studies that are coming out, is that it really looks like 90 percent, maybe even close to a 100 percent of patients, have some form of a molecular driver. And those other mutations you’re going to start to hear about are becoming common; ASXL1, TP53, EZH2, IDH, etc. etc. So, triple negative may mean that we don’t have those big three, but there might be something else that’s driving the MF, and it means that it’s a higher risk to progress to AML and for some patients to not do as well.

But this questioner brings up a very good point. What the textbook risk score says does not have to imply to each individual patients. So, just because the finding is that, okay. Triple negative patients as a population may do worse, it may not apply to that individual patient. So, in this person’s case, maybe they’ve been diagnosed very, very early. That’s a good thing. Maybe the driver mutations and the triple negative matter, which is what I think. So, ASXL1 mutation vs. some other ones.

And then finally, each patient is different. Everyone’s case is different. You have other co-morbidities, other underlying drivers of disease. So, I think that’s the good point. But, we do have to say, at least for right now, I like your phrase ‘of a moving target’. The understanding that if you are this triple negative disease in this classical sense, should mean that you are a higher risk at some point to progress, as compared to others in your group, and so, possibly closer monitoring and observation is necessary.

Andrew: Right. And see an MPN specialist. Because what if there’s a drug in development that’s an AS – What is it? AS –

Dr. Pemmaraju: ASXL1.

Andrew: Inhibitor. And that’s driving your bus. Right? Maybe you wanna be in that trial. [

Dr. Pemmaraju: Absolutely right. Clinical trials are important for all of our patients with any rare cancers, or any cancers in general.

Andrew: Right. Okay. Let’s go on. I just wanna take this question from Susan. It really rang true for me. Susan writes, “Is it common for an ET patient to experience numbness in the scalp, ears, and face? I’m currently on 1,500 milligrams of Hydrea daily.” And I wonder if you can broad this out because I was telling you before the program, I’m getting every once in a while – I wake up with a little prickliness. Not itchy, and I go back to sleep, but is that related to my MPN? So, she has scalp questions, is it the MPN, ET whatever? Is it the medicine?

Andrew: This is coming up in my clinic on a weekly basis. The short answer is, yes. It’s always due to the MPN. And I’m here to tell you why. This is an underappreciated part of what we do as healthcare providers in patients. For anyone who’s ever filled out the Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Symptom Assessment Form Total Symptom Score:, developed by Ruben Mesa, his colleagues, now shortened down to a nice, nifty 10 ques – sheet. You know, actually, peripheral neuropathy is one of those 10 questions. Do you have numbness and tingling? So, even though we don’t talk about it, that’s our fault, peripheral neuropathy is a thing. It’s a common aspect of the MPN.

No. 2 is – and you brought this up to me nicely as well, is some of the mediations that we prescribe at the chemotherapeutic level can also cause nerve damage and neuropathy. JAK inhibitors either as a class, or some of these individual ones, both FDA approved in clinical trials have been associated with either a central, or peripheral neuropathy. So, I think that’s another big aspect.

And then finally, I hate to say it, but these drug-to-drug interactions of all of these medicines can cause that. When you factor that, plus vitamin deficiencies, thyroid deficiencies, iron abnormalities, restless leg syndrome, our patients have a host of reasons to have neuropathy. Usually this is an intermittent phenomenon, a come and go phenomenon. When it starts to become more of a permanent phenomenon and progressive, that’s a big concern, and that would really require a separate neurologic work up.

True, there are some chemotherapy drugs that can cause that, but I would say that would necessitate a multi-disciplinary approach; neurologists and all of this kind of thing.

Andrew: Okay. You used the name of a drug that people take. Is a blood thinner, Coumadin. Somebody may take diabetes medicines, I also have Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia and take medicines for that. Okay. So, if we’re developing some of this and we have an MPN, which of the many doctors we have doo we go to first – do we go to you as our MPN specialist? Do we start there?

Dr. Pemmaraju: Yes. Absolutely. I think the phrase and the motto of every MPN expert that you’ll meet (and you and I know all of them now) is, ‘Tell us everything.’ Because I will tell you what. Now that we have more understanding – not full understanding yet, but more understanding of the biology of these diseases, it turns out that a lot of things that are happening are due to MPN.

One example I’ll give you, Andrew, our colleague and friend, Claire Harrison has pioneered this phrase called, ‘presenteeism’. Presenteeism. Not absenteeism, as we learned when we were younger. The concept that our patients with MPN are there, they’re here at work, with their loved ones, they’re at dinner, but they’re not really there. That’s also a question on the questionnaire; inability to concentrate. Subtle, subtle, subtle, but this is part of the MPN process. We’re not talking about it enough, but programs like this will get the message out there. So, tell your MPN doctor everything because more than likely they know it’s part of the MPN.

Andrew: I gotta tell my wife. I’ve been married 33 years.

Dr. Pemmaraju: This is all recorded, so you can tell her.

Andrew: All right. Esther, where are you? Okay. No. Let’s go on. So, Heather sent in this question. “My local hematologist, oncologist will only give me a phlebotomy after my hematocrit is over 51. What is the standard marker? I have PV and I’m really struggling with symptoms.”

Dr. Pemmaraju: I actually have data to share with you and your viewers. So, before four years ago, we did use to do it either based on convention, symptom burden, or a pre-designed abstract number. But now we have data. So, our Italian colleagues, Barbui and colleagues published in the New England Journal about four years ago a very nice paper that starts to answer this question. They randomize patients with P. Vera to two groups. They called it a liberal group, where you could get phlebotomies at any number essentially just like what’s being asked here, and then a more stringent group, which they came up with the hematocrit goal of 45 and below. Or below 45.

And the trial was actually stopped early because it showed a four-fold decrease in cardiovascular morbidity and mortality. That means, four times less chance of people having cardiac events or cardiac deaths in the stringent phlebotomy group. That is when you put the goal below 45. Yes, it’s only one study, but it’s with several hundred patients with P. Vera in a nice controlled situation. So, that has become a lot of us – for us, the de facto of standard of care.
So, I would advise, if you’re a higher risk patient with P. Vera, the so-called triple therapy approach, where you’re doing, you know, baby aspirin if you qualify. The phlebotomy goal of 45 and below, and then of course, cytoreductive therapy if you need it in the higher-risk situation. So, 45 and below, it should be validated, we should do more studies here in the States, but that’s something that I think we can use with high-level data.

Andrew: Okay, thanks. Here’s a question we got in from Kimberley. She says, “My daughter is 22, she was diagnosed in 2013 with ET, and she’s been on Hydroxyurea, but is decided she no longer wants to take the med. What should she be aware of, or cautious about, given that she’s no longer taking it?”

Dr. Pemmaraju: Ugh. Well, this is an area that’s very dear to me and very important to my research. With our group here, with Dr. Serge Verstovsek and my colleagues, we just published a paper on our experience with adolescents and young adults with MPN, or AYA. As its own separate field, AYA cancer has become a very important understanding that really didn’t exist, in my opinion, 20 years ago. But our patients are not always older patients. So, young patients can get MPN, too. Yes, patients in their teens and twenties can get them just like this questioner.

So, this is a type of patient that I’m seeing quite commonly in the clinic. Couple of points to say. One is, who can blame her? Who wants to take a life-long, indefinite oral chemotherapy that may or may not have short-term and long-term side effects? In our study what we found is, approximately 10 percent of our patients met this definition. The NCCN gives it, I think, age 16 to 39. So, younger than 40. And out of those patients, I was surprised to see that a good seven percent had a thrombotic event. That means a blood clot, either at the time of diagnosis just prior to, or just after. Well, that’s a pretty good clip, and that would be more than the general population than what you would expect.

The problem with the young patient with MPN has several issues. One is, what about at the time of fertility and pregnancy? Two, what about at the time of surgical procedures? I’m talking about routine things, such as dental and other care. And then three, as they start to transition into their older adult years. So, in this patient’s case, this is a very difficult thing. We don’t have many drugs. We have Hydroxyurea, we have Interferon, which possibly might be better for a younger patient. If someone has myelofibrosis, there’s no age requirements. So, if you qualify, then the JAK inhibitor, as a class.

But this is just one of those in-between, vulnerable populations, and we really don’t have great treatments for in general, an AYA cancer, and specifically here. And so, the main thing that we would say to this person is, really, really close follow-up early on with an MPN expert, as you always advocate. Two, is at the time of fertility planning, pregnancy in our family planning is to have high-risk maternal-fetal experts involved early on. (I think, this is something important.) And three, really cautious planning in and around surgical procedures, looking for bleeding and blood clots. I think those are some basic guidelines for anyone to follow.

Andrew: Well, great advice for mom and daughter. I wanted to post this, just a quick question from Caroline who lives in the United Kingdom is diagnosed with primary myelofibrosis four years ago at age 49. And she said, “I’ve tried to find others with myelofibrosis of a similar age, but so far no luck.” So, is being diagnosed at her age, age 49 with myelofibrosis, unusual?

Dr. Pemmaraju: There you go. That’s perfect. So, that also goes along with our “Young people get MNPs as well.” This was a disease – first of all a disease, now we recognize it as a cancer that was thought to be 60, 70, 80, 90 and older. And now we realize that there’s a significant subset of our populations diagnosed in their teens, twenties, thirties, and forties. So, we definitely want our question – our viewer to know, no, you’re not alone at all. Please, see our paper that we just put out there and several other of my colleagues, including Brady Stein and others.

Two is, my goodness. Not only you’re not alone, but I actually believe – and I know you know this too – that a lot of rare cancers are sometimes are under diagnosed and underappreciated. It does require expert bone marrow, expertise, someone to identify it, someone to do a bone marrow. And lastly, for this patient looking for other patients, I would refer them to sources, such as this one. Patient Power, support groups on Facebook, we have a Twitter feed, as you know, a grassroots Twitter, that’s investigators initiative called #MPNSM (myeloproliferative neoplasm on social media).

So, there are lots of different ways for this person to connect with not only younger patients with the disease, but also as a support group, virtually. And I think platforms, such as Patient Power, have frankly revolutionized the way people have obtained information, have communicated with each other, and specifically for a patient like this in the UK, who is not able to connect with me. And when there are people all over the world waiting to talk to her.

Andrew: Right. I wanna call at our friends in the United Kingdom, MPN Voice.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Oh, yes.

Andrew: It’s Claire Harrison, who you mentioned, wonderful, devoted.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Outstanding.

Andrew: She’s an expert, out of London, helps run it. So, please, connect with them. Okay, here is a question from Erin, as we’re getting near the end of our program. “Can ET ever cause systemic inflammation? And is that what causes symptoms? The inflammation.”

Dr. Pemmaraju: Yes, yes, and yes. So, inflammation, I think, used to be a word that may have been potentially, if I may say, a wastebasket term, but now is a very specific term. So, now we know that a lot of our hematologic disorders and malignancies lead to a high level of inflammation. That means tissue damage. Tissue injury. That’s what inflammation means. There are some conditions that the patient does not even have a blood cancer diagnosis, but has a molecular mutation, that’s called CHIP (clonal hematopoiesis of indeterminate potential), and those patients appear to have a higher likelihood of cardiovascular disease and death. That’s New England Journal of Medicine. The likely pathway is inflammation.

In our patients with MPN, even the quote on quote, earlier stages, such as ET and PV. This is a disease of cytokines and inflammation. So, high levels of abnormal messengers and signals. So, yes, inflammation is part of the disease, patients have a higher rate of cardiovascular events and death. That’s inflammation. And then of course, the bone marrow milieu itself, as it progresses to myelofibrosis has an up ramp, if you will, of cytokines and inflammation. Last part of it is the therapies that we’re working on are trying to either target inflammation itself, or to bring down that level.

Andrew: Okay. I wanna see if – Here’s a – one that just popped in as we get near the end of our program. Roger says, “Are there any drugs being studied that improve anemia in patients with a low hemoglobin?” What’s the easiest way to find out about clinical trials if you live out of the state, or out of the country where this trial may be –?

Dr. Pemmaraju: Yes. Your best resource to look that up is run by the Federal Government, the NH, it’s called clinicaltrials.gov, that’s dot G-O-V. This is an outstanding website, well curated, updated as quickly as they can, and it has a nice search function. You can search by investigator, disease type, condition, and there’s even a box for ‘other’ where you can type in something like ‘myelofibrosis’.

There are several drugs in development. These drugs are known as Luspatercept and Sotatercept, for example. And they’re a class of drugs that are anemia targeting in myelofibrosis and myelodisplastic syndrome. So, the answer is, yes. And you can find out these types of clinical trials either online at this website, or at other websites. But this is an important, urgent, unmet medical need that we are working on, and there are active clinical trials for patients to enroll on.

Andrew: Well, okay. And the last thing I would ask you about – and this always comes up, Naveen, but I wanna hear what you have to say is somebody we have people with ET, we have people with PD, MF, and we talked at one end about acute myeloid leukemia. What do we know about progression now? So, if I’m sitting there with ET, am I necessarily going to go onto PV, or MF? Or anywhere along the line, and how do we know?

Dr. Pemmaraju: We do know a little bit more. So, the answer is no. So, a lot of our patients do stay in the chronic phase, as you’re asking. So, if you’re ET, or PV – and our European colleagues have really done these nice population studies, where the majority – the vast majority of patients with ET and PV are expected in the modern era to have normal life expectancies as long as you’re mitigating in some bleeds, clots, and these type of events.

But for the minority, who don’t have a normal life expectancy, you’re talking about progression to AML, which is a minority of all these. Right? Maybe 5-7 percent of cases at the most. There are some things we have identified. One is that there are some dynamic acquisition of molecular mutations that are happening at the time of progression. And what I mean by that is, there are new injuries to the DNA that people appear to be picking up. So, two important studies our colleague, Raajit Rampal showed that the acquisition of TP53 mutation, which is the guardian of the genome present in 50 (five, zero) percent of human cancers. That looks like it’s more common when ET and PV are trying to take off to AML.

Another study by our Mayo colleagues just published in Blood Advances showed that other mutations, such as PTPN11, or RUNX1, just to name some particular ones, and then we’ve known about ASXL-1 now for a while. So, rapidly change in blood counts in concert with new molecular mutations, and then a baseline if you have high-risk mutations. That seems to be a way for us to predict who might transform faster than others.

Now, that’s an addition to the traditional risk factors that you and I have already discussed, the IPSS risk, or etc. So, there are some ways that we can monitor. A lot of these may be in the research setting. Some are ready for the clinic, but there are some ways now.

Andrew: Okay. So, ladies and gentlemen, I hope this program is been worthwhile for you. Remember that the big meeting of Dr. Pemmaraju and his colleagues from around the world with thousands of hematologists is this the American Society of Hematology meeting, which once again, will be, yay, near me, in San Diego.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Very good.

Andrew: Esther and I’ll just drive over. And the Patient Power team will be there, the Patient Empowerment Network team will be there. So, we’re there for you. So, look for more programs as we go through the fall, and certainly in December, when this meeting happens. And that’s where a lot of the research that Dr. Pemmaraju talks about is presented.

Dr. Pemmaraju: Right.

Andrew: And then we’ll have more news. So, we’re living with these long-term conditions, thank god for most all of us, and it’s a moving target, as I’ve described. I wanna thank you for joining the Patient Empowerment Network program, for sponsoring this program. We thank Incyte Corporation for its support, and Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju from M.D. Anderson, and the Leukemia Department there, thank you for being a partner in this, and just explaining things, and your passion. And Naveen, again, back to your whiteboard back there. Figure it out.

Dr. Pemmaraju: It’s all there. Yes, sir, Andrew.

Andrew: It’s all there. Figure it out. Okay? All right. Thank you so much for being with us from around the world. We love it. We’ve got a community. This is what it’s all about and we’ll have future ask the expert programs. I’m Andrew Schorr near San Diego. Thanks to the Patient Empowerment Network for making all this happen. Remember, knowledge can be the best medicine of all.

MPN Patient Story: Ruth Gerwin

My journey began in 1999 when I was diagnosed with Essential Thrombocythemia (ET). All I took was a baby aspirin, even then they [platelets] soared to over 1 million.

In November 2004, I had a bad cold and had this aching on my left side. It was discovered my spleen was enlarged and I had a bone marrow biopsy. I was at that time diagnosed with Myelofibrosis (MF). I went to see Dr. Richard Silver in New York and he put me on Interferon. I saw him for 5 years and then transferred to Cleveland Clinic as my insurance company was making it harder and harder for Dr. Silver to be paid. There I was under the very capable care of  Dr. Ramon Tui. It was under his care that I did a trial for Jakafi. It only helped the spleen size for a couple of months, but it has kept some of the other side effects of the disease at bay. I still take 20 mg. twice daily. Also, in 2014 I had a double mastectomy.

In the spring of 2017, I was so horribly uncomfortable because by this time I looked 9 months pregnant with my spleen. I also had swollen legs and feet. I could hardly walk. I made a decision at that time to radiate the spleen to give me some relief. I was supposed to receive 10 treatments, but was stopped at 7 because my blood counts bottomed out. Hmg 6.0, Pl 5, WBC 0.8. I started with transfusions twice weekly of one platelet and two blood. I did this for several weeks and developed a horrible headache. I stopped the transfusions and my Dr. said to go home and call Hospice. He thought I had 2 weeks to 2 months to live. I was really sick, but as my spleen began to recover, my counts went up. By the fall of 2017, I was basically back to normal with the blood counts and, of course, out of Hospice. My family think I’m a miracle. But, the spleen, by December 2017 was becoming very uncomfortable again and I started radiation again January, 2018. This time I had 4 treatments and had to stop because of my blood dropping.

It has been suggested to me by two doctors to have my spleen removed and have a bone marrow transplant. But, I have read about this procedure and I know I wouldn’t survive as I am very sensitive to most of the medications they would have to give me. My current hematologist is looking for a trial I can do, but my bone marrow is nothing but fatty tissue. I have nothing there…not even fibrosis. I keep telling them my spleen is doing it all, but they won’t believe me. With no bone marrow tissue, I can’t do a trial. So, I don’t know what they are going to do with me. Anyone else have this problem? I’d love to hear what you are doing.

I know the Lord has a good plan for me and I just have to wait and see what it is. He is the “great physician”!  I’m just not real patient. I haven’t felt really well for a long time.

Living Well with MPNs – The Power of Diet & Exercise

The Power of Diet & Exercise: Advice From MPN Experts

Living Well With MPNs: The Power of Diet & Exercise from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

The expert panel featured renowned MPN specialist and researcher Dr. Ruben Mesa and was joined by other experienced clinicians and patients on the broadcast, to share knowledge and advice about the benefits of a healthy lifestyle when dealing with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs).


Transcript:

Andrew Schorr:

And hello, wherever you may be. Welcome to this Patient Empowerment Network program. I’m Andrew Schorr from Patient Power. We’re going to discuss the power of diet and exercise, and get advice from MPN experts. We want to thank Insight Corporation for their support. We’re gonna cover the country – the U.S. country – today with our experts. I have my own experience with an MPN, myelofibrosis, diagnosed in 2011, and I’m an avid runner, and I like to go to the gym, and I certainly like to have my weight be just right. Some of this has been a challenge along the way, and we’re gonna get advice from the experts on that. We’re also gonna meet a patient from New Jersey, and we’re gonna meet a noted expert from San Antonio, and a dietitian who’s an expert in oncology diet, and she’s in North Carolina.

So, let’s get started. And remember, you can send your questions to MPN@patientpower.info. And if you have some favorite recipe or some exercise tip, send that too. All right, let’s go first to Westfield, New Jersey, about 19 miles from New York City, meeting someone who grew up in Brooklyn but now lives with her family in suburban New Jersey, and that’s Julia Olff. Julia, welcome to the program.

Julia Olff:

Hi, thank you very much.

Andrew Schorr:

Thank you, Julia. Now, Julia, you and I have met a couple of times. We did a Town Hall event in New York City near Grand Central Station, and you were there. And then a few weeks ago, we were all at Cornell Weill, and across from where you used to work for five years at Memorial Sloan Kettering. So, as I understand it, nine years ago, you were diagnosed with ET, and then a year later, it became what I have too, myelofibrosis. How did it start?

Julia Olff:

It really was diagnosed incidentally through a physical – annual physical exam and routine blood work.

I think in retrospect, I had symptoms. Probably like other folks, I had thalamic migraines over the years and some blood abnormalities, but it was really a physical exam. And I was not symptomatic that I was aware of at that time.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. And it didn’t worry you, at that point.

Julia Olff:

I mean, I know we’ll talk more about it. I worked in health education. I worked on patient education materials at the time. When I was told I had ET, I was sort of thrown because I was one of those people that were always healthy, always focused on health. And it concerned me, but I was not yet worried.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay, so here comes myelofibrosis.

Julia Olff:

Right. That worried me. So, that also was diagnosed at that point then through bone marrow biopsy, and they were able to determine some initial mutations related to myelofibrosis.

And I saw a local oncologist, who was now more serious about this as the more serious form of the illness, and looking on the Internet. And now this is actually about 2008. You know what kind of information was available at the time. It was pretty dire. So, that kick started my getting more serious about it.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. Now, you’ve had some hospitalizations, too. So, it’s been up and down, right?

Julia Olff:

Yeah, I think it’s a real ebb and flow. I feel, in a lot of ways, fortunate that it’s nine years out, and I have not had some of the hallmark symptoms that others have. But I have had these strange, sort of out of nowhere; I can feel fairly good, barring fatigue and some pain. And then out of the blue, I had a TIA. I’ve had a few hospitalizations for colitis. And those set you back, you know?

They take a good six to eight weeks to recover. And if you saw me in August, you would see the really lethargic, slow-moving me.

Andrew Schorr:

So, what’s your exercise routine?

Julia Olff:

Well, I know we were talking earlier. I had two dogs, most recently one, and he just passed away. That has been my exercise routine. So, I don’t feel energetic enough to do things like biking, even though I have a lovely bicycle. But I do try to walk every day. And right now, I’m feeling well enough that I push myself to walk a little longer. And I think as it gets darker in the year – I’m on the East Coast. As it gets colder, I do really have to push myself. But I wholeheartedly advocate for having a pet, because you need to get out, and that really helps a lot. So, walking is key for me.

Andrew Schorr:

And diet, I know. So, you’ve got a high school kid at home and a college kid who’s coming back. And you’ve had five children in a blended family, I know. So, it can be a busy place. What do you eat, and what do you eat consciously that you feel helps you as you’re living with an MPN?

Julia Olff:

Well, I think the thing that’s helped me the most is actually following Weight Watchers. And I know we were talking earlier that being on Ruxolitinib or Jakafi has added pounds. And it has. And that sort of prompted me. I finally got fed up with myself, and I joined Weight Watchers. And I think the most important aspect of Weight Watchers is, one, portion control. And then the other part is eating fresh food. So, that changed or really pumped up my diet. So, one, I started to receive organic groceries delivered to the house, which also helps a lot when you’re feeling fatigued. So, I try to eat as many fruits and vegetables at every meal. And I feel like that’s helping me.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. All right. We’re gonna get more from you along the way. And I want you to chime in with questions. Let’s meet one of the best-known experts as a physician devoted to treating MPNs, and that’s Dr. Ruben Mesa. He recently moved from where he was with Mayo Clinic in Arizona, and now – you’ve got a long title, Ruben. I’ve got to give it. It’s Director of Mays Family Foundation, Distinguished University Presidential Chair Professor of Medicine at the UT Health San Antonio Cancer Center. I’m so glad I got it right. Ruben Mesa, welcome to our program. It’s great to see you again.

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Hey, it’s always a pleasure to be on these Patient Power events.

Andrew Schorr:

Thank you so, much. And Patient Empowerment Network program. Thank you so much, Ruben. So, Ruben, we’re gonna come back to you and have you really put diet and exercise in perspective.

And I know you’ve seen thousands of patients. And I’m sure patients have shared with you every diet, every kind of exercise. You’ll have stories to tell, won’t you?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Absolutely.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. All right. Let’s skip over to Winston-Salem, North Carolina, and meet someone who’s been on other programs we’ve produced. And that’s Julie Lanford. Julie is a registered dietitian, nutritionist. But beyond that is at Cancer Services, a nonprofit in North Carolina, Julie is an oncology dietitian. Julie, welcome to the program.

Julie Lanford:

Thank you so much.

Andrew Schorr:

Let’s get started. So, first of all, Ruben, we’ve heard you talk a lot about the differences in MPNs. And so, really, there’s not a one size fits all, even really the diet and exercise, Ruben, is there?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

There truly is not. I mean, certainly, with MPNs, we really have to think about diseases that people live with. They live with, for long periods of time, many even the rest of their lives – with their MPN. So, again, I try to frame it for folks. For many, it’s really about managing a chronic condition. And being a chronic condition, the things that we do in terms of our lifestyle are very important, both in terms of what we eat, how active we are, how well we sleep. There are many key parts that are related, without question.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. I gotta ask one question off the top. Julie referred to it, and I wonder about it, too. So, I’ve been taking Ruxolitinib for five years. Julia, for four, I think you said, Julia.

Julie Lanford:

Yes.

Andrew Schorr:

And so, what I wonder about, Ruben, is there anything about that medicine that some of us take, some people for PD as well, that lends to weight gain, scientifically?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

It’s difficult to know. Clearly, people gain weight, at least on average, to some degree, with taking Ruxolitinib. Now, part of that reason for weight gain is that an MPN causes weight loss overall. And MPNs in general burn more calories than if you don’t have an MPN. The activity in the bone marrow, all those cells being produced, and turning over that burns more calories than it does otherwise. So, part of the weight gain may be turning off that extra calorie burn that the MPN caused. So, part may be, again, you’ve kind of adjusted your diet, etc. In the past, you were able to get away with eating more. And then if the disease is quieter, you gain some weight. Now, I’d say even though that’s part of it, it does seem that people do gain a little bit more weight than even that with the Ruxolitinib.

And it may well have to do in part with some of the secondary effects of the Ruxolitinib. Ruxolitinib inhibits JAK2. That’s one of the key reasons it was tested in MPNs. And with that, helps to shrink the spleen, helps people feel better. Maybe help even avoid progression of the disease or decrease that likelihood of progression. But it has an impact on a whole bunch of different proteins that circulate in the blood that we call cytokines. Cytokines can be involved with inflammation, but they may be involved with other parts that kind of control how things are working in the body. And it may be blocking of some of those cytokines that may account for a little bit of that change in weight.

Andrew Schorr:

Hm. Okay. And related to the other medicines that we take, some people take interferon, some people take hydroxurea, depending upon where they are – maybe just aspirin, depending on where they are with an MPN.

Are there other common things that affect weight related to any of those medicines?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

It’s a good question. In general, the weight gain has been much more specific to the JAK inhibitors. I can’t say it’s specific to Ruxolitinib, but it really is an effect with JAK inhibitors. Most of those other medicines, hydroxyurea or interferon, don’t have a big impact on weight in terms of gain. Whether that’s in people with myelofibrosis who have lost weight related to the disease, even if they’re on hydroxyurea, they don’t tend to gain some of that weight back. So, myelofibrosis, we do view that some of the weight gain might be beneficial, because some of that weight loss in myelofibrosis is not just fat. It can be muscle. But again, there may be some part that is an extra effect of weight gain from the impact of the drug.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. Julie Lanford, so let’s talk about managing weight. So, I’ve been – and Julia mentioned it earlier. I mean, I’ve been – no more cookies for me. And I love chocolate chip cookies. So, I’ve had to make changes. How do you coach people through changes, if, let’s say, maybe there’s something related to inhibiting whatever in their body, we have to make changes.

Julie Lanford:

Yeah. So, I will say, I don’t actually keep a scale in my office because I think that a lot of times, you can get kind of distracted on the number. You do know, though – I find many patients know by how their clothes fit, by how they feel. And I think what’s important also is what type of weight is it? Is it muscle weight? Muscle weight’s good, right? Or is it more excess fat? And so, I think balancing those things and really keying in on what are the behaviors that we want you to have, as opposed to what the number on the scale, per se.

But are you able to be physically active that helps maintain muscle mass, and are you choosing those really healthy foods for you? Like Julia was saying, lots of fruits and vegetables, which are really important, not just for weight maintenance, but for overall feeling well and helping to support your immune system, and just overall good health.

Andrew Schorr:

Hm. And so, with this belly that I’ve developed, I had to make a change. I used to have a toasted bagel every morning, Julie. I’m not doing that now. And I put chocolate syrup in this latte machine thing. No more of that. I mean, these are things I’ve had to give up. But I’m having jelly with no sugar in it on a whole wheat waffle, and I’m eating a banana. Am I doing okay doing that?

Julie Lanford:

Yeah. I think – and sometimes, we discount the little things. But I think the little things are sometimes – they make the biggest difference. Because if they are things that you do on a daily basis, and you make a change, it’s gonna have a big impact. Now, you’re talking about your cookies. If you just had a cookie or two once a week, it’s not that big of a deal. But if you were having a cookie after lunch every single day –

Andrew Schorr:

I was.

Julie Lanford:

Then changing that habit – okay. Well then, approved. You can cut back on that. It’s a good choice, right? We don’t want you to completely eliminate it. But really keying in on what are you regular habits, I think, is the most important place to start. And I always encourage people to really pay attention to what they have on their plate, what are the ratios of food that’s on their plate, so that they are getting enough of the nourishing nutrients. And sometimes that helps to, when you make those changes away from the less healthy things; you don’t notice it as much when you’re focused on including more of the healthy things.

Andrew Schorr:

Well, I just want to make one comment. We lived in Europe, some people know, for three years. And the first thing that hit us when we came back to the U.S. is the much bigger portions. And there you are, Ruben – you’re in Texas. Texas-sized food. Or even in California. My mother used to say, “Clean everything on your plate,” but I’m rethinking that, so. Julia Olff, I want to go back to you. So, related to – so, what kind of fruit are you eating? What change have you made? You said fruits and vegetables and organic stuff, too.

Julia Olff:

Well, I have a question in relationship to the conversation that we just had that I wanted to come back to. But I think because of Weight Watchers, my awareness of both weight and nutritional value of food has just heightened. So, one of my big questions in relationship to myelofibrosis that I have tried to adjust but haven’t eliminated – I’m a foodie. I live for food. To me, life – I’m not sure I want another year of life if I can’t have a cookie.

And so, I’ve tried to reduce the amount of fat I take in. And I think I have a lot of questions about salt, sugar, and fat as it relates to having a myeloproliferative neoplasm, being at risk for bleeding, blood clots, etc. But I would say, like you, I have a more structured – my meals are more intentional. So, like you, I have a bowl of fruit for breakfast every single day, and then I try to have something that’s – if I’m going to have a carbohydrate, I try to make it a better carbohydrate. I make use of hardboiled eggs a lot, so I get a little protein, and try to have greens at dinner every night. And a few of them – as a matter of fact, my husband said to me the other week, “Sure, make me a plate.” He was on his way home.

And he came home, and he looked at his plate, and he said, “That’s such a big plate of food.” I said, “Look at the balance. Half of it is vegetables. It’s really not so – it’s not like I’ve stuffed you.” “Oh, okay.”

Andrew Schorr:

So, Ruben, are there some things that in the clinic, you warn people to stay away from? Do you have some general advice, or certain foods, or if somebody’s worried about sludgy blood, where they’re at risk of a stroke, that certain kind of foods or salts or whatever that you warn people about?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Well, when it comes to diet and MPNs, I mean, I think there are several levels. And one, let’s say, the general U.S. diet. People kind of eat whatever they want. And that’s probably not healthy for anyone. High in salt, high in fat. It’s a risk for us all in terms of cardiovascular disease, etc. And when you have an MPN, all of those standard risks with cholesterol and sugar and high blood pressure, they’re even a greater concern with MPNS, without question.

But that’s kind of diet one. Diet two, and we can definitely dig into this, regards just trying to eat a healthier diet. And that has different values, whether it’s straight weight loss, or a just a general healthier diet, I think, of which there’s a lot of discussion as to a lot of variations within there. But even just the effort of trying to eat healthier, both in terms of quantity and what you’re eating, has an impact. And there’s finally, the third group, really kind of subspecialized diets, of which I think there is great discussion, but I don’t think that there’s near conformity of should it be gluten-free? Should it be high in protein? Should it be low in protein? Should it be paleo? Should it be this? Should it be that? I think that is more mixed.

But I think for MPN patients, the most particular thing is at least trying to not be in that first group of just kind of the general U.S. just kind of eat food as it comes, fried, salted, really without regard to diet. So, even if MPN patients just followed the diet that we’re all supposed to be following, they probably are in dramatically better shape than just if they’re eating just a general U.S. diet.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. I want to ask you a couple of things about exercise. So, some people with high blood counts worry that they are certainly at risk of stroke. Should that, during that time, limit the amount of exercise they do for fear that the stuff pumping ever faster through their body is gonna end up with a big blood clot somewhere?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Sure. No, that’s a very good question. One, overall, exercise for MPN patients is a very good thing. But clearly, it should be done with kind of the awareness of their physicians. And that in periods of time where the disease is not stable – the counts are too high and uncontrolled, there’s just been an event such as a blood clot or bleeding, clearly there might be times where exercise is not appropriate until things are more balanced and in control. But I’d say once things are balanced and in control, and as long as your healthcare team is aware, appropriate exercise is helpful and important. I think, like any approach to healthy exercise, it’s about gradually working yourself into a specific exercise program. With an MPN, it’s probably not good to do what happens on January 2nd every year, where everyone has a New Years resolution.

And they go from, okay, I’m not exercising at all, to I’m gonna go to Lifetime, and I’m gonna exercise an hour and a half on January 2nd, and absolutely dehydrate myself and exhaust myself, so by January 4th, I’ve quit because I pulled a muscle and I feel terrible. So, it’s clearly about kind of working yourself up to an appropriate level of exercise, in combination with what your doctor feels is appropriate and healthy for you, both in terms of your overall health, but also in terms of where you stand with your MPN.

Andrew Schorr:

Mm-hmm. So, Julie, you’re nodding your head. How have you carried on with exercise? Walking the dog, but what other kinds of things?

Julie Lanford:

Well, I wanted to add, as I’m listening to Dr. Mesa, that pacing is so important. Because I find it catches up with me. I could sleep, on average night, nine, ten hours, and I have to push myself out of bed in the morning.

 So, yesterday, I had an evening meeting. I took a long walk. And in the moment, I’m okay, but by the evening, I start to feel achy. I need to put my feet up. The bone pain in my hips starts to kick in. So, there’s that balance of trying to get out as much as possible. So, for me, it’s taking advantage of the sun outside my window. And I’m already thinking, as soon as we’re done with this call, I’m gonna take another short walk. But it’s also trying to balance it, because too much activity when you have constant fatigue just catches up with you. And I find I end up having those acute bouts of illness when I’ve done too much for a sustained – like for a couple of months.

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

If I might just add one additional thing. That pacing thing, I think, is so important.

As I told you, I’ve had many patients over the years who are very Type A. Some of them will be on this webinar as we speak.

Julie Lanford:

Yup.

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

And they’re very hard on themselves because they remember, well, before my MPN, I was able to exercise this amount, and beat themselves up because they just don’t have the same stamina that they did before. And it’s okay. It’s okay to realize that the new normal does not necessarily mean that you have 100 percent of the capacity that you had before in terms of your exercise capability, and that even though it’s modified, or less, or adjusted accordingly, it’s still great that you’re doing it.

Andrew Schorr:

Right. I have a story about that I’ll just share. So, as we do this program, it’s just after Thanksgiving. So, there was a Turkey Trot, as there were in many places around the country, in Balboa Park on the north side of LA.

My son, Ari, won it. He’s a really fast marathoner. But Esther and I ran it, and Esther and I were running together slowly. And I found I was huffing and puffing, and I’ve run eight marathons, many years ago. And I just said, “You know, I just want to finish.” And Esther went ahead. She did really well. Congratulations, Esther. And then my son who ran the race came back and ran the last mile with me. So, it was a 5k, so a little over three miles. I felt great that I did it. I felt disappointed that I couldn’t do what I used to. But I did it. And I think it’s exactly what you’re saying, Ruben. So, Julie Lanford, are there certain foods or things we can do that will give us more energy, and some things that are just a waste?

Julie Lanford:

So, I would say that we do want to focus on foods. There’s no supplements. Unless you’re deficient in a nutrient, there’s no reason to take pill forms of nutrition.

So, we do want to focus on the foods. And there are certain patterns of eating that we know are particular healthy, and certain patterns that are not so healthy. We’ve talked about the typical American kind of eats a pattern that’s not so healthy. And when it comes to fatigue, I would say similar types of foods as we want for an overall healthy diet. But I think it’s really key that people not wait too long to eat, so that they’re – just like your pacing, everything else in your day, you want to make sure that you are eating regularly throughout the day so that you never get real low on energy in terms of nutrition.

And also, really making sure that you have a good balance of foods at your mealtimes and at your snack times. So, you want to make sure you have a healthy carbohydrate, because that’s what can really give your brain and your muscles energy. You want to make sure you have a good balance of proteins. They can come from plant proteins or animal proteins. But make sure that your meals and snacks have an adequate amount of protein.

And then, of course, some fruits and vegetables and other things. But really getting that balance, and also not going too long between when you eat, so that you can consistently give your body that energy that it needs. Even if it’s smaller amounts at a time, it’s spread out throughout the day regularly.

Andrew Schorr:

So, when I went to summer camp as a kid, they had us eat candy bars if we were low on energy. And we’re talking about carbohydrates. So, kick off a couple of specifics that you would recommend that we should – snacks, for instance.

Julie Lanford:

Yeah. So, probably wouldn’t recommend a candy bar, per se, on a regular basis. But things like peanut butter crackers, if you can buy just good old whole grain crackers and peanut butter and put them on there, that can be easy. Even a peanut butter sandwich is really simple. Peanut butter and banana. People around here eat that. I think it’s delicious. Soups can be easy things that are kept either in the fridge – that’s easy to heat up.

Because that’s the other thing with fatigue. You don’t feel like cooking, so you want to make sure that you have sort of meal-sized portions in your fridge ready to eat. That’s what friends and family can kind of do for you. So, even just small meals. If it’s spaghetti, if it’s a piece of pizza that you put lots of vegetables on. I think fruit is great as a source of healthy carbohydrates. If you had fruit and a cheese stick, or even if you made yourself some sort of healthy smoothie, just something that’s going to give you that balance of nutrients.

Andrew Schorr:

Yeah. You mentioned something, and Julie, I don’t know if you do it. We had started to – I love leftovers. And so, we’ve been trying to make healthy stuff, put it in the fridge where I can grab for lunch. Or this morning, Esther made a big thing of steel-cut oatmeal. And so, now I can have that as part of my breakfast. So, Julie, is that – are we on the right track?

Julie Lanford:

Yeah, that’s great. And something that’s really popular right now is overnight oats. So, you can soak your oats in milk or whatever or whatever you want to use for a liquid, and it’s in a jar, or it’s in a container in the fridge all night, so it gets soft, so it cooks really quickly in the morning in the microwave. So, yeah, I think that’s a great way – there are lots of grains you could use for breakfast cereals, too. Barley is another grain. Quinoa. And essentially, you cook it the same as you would oatmeal. Flavor it the same way, and it just gives it variety if you’re looking for something different.

Andrew Schorr:

Julia, how’s that sound to you?

Julia Olff:

I’m not a big hot cereal fan, so I have two breakfasts that I go back and forth from. One is – I love Cheerios, and I just read how much sugar there was in Honeynut Cheerios, so I’m mixing plain Cheerios now with Honeynut Cheerios, and then I add a lot of fruit to it. Or I do a whole grain muffin with half a hardboiled egg, which makes me miss my dog, because I always gave him the other half of the egg.

Andrew Schorr:

I have a blood count question for you with myelofibrosis. How are your platelets?

Julia Olff:

For me?

Andrew Schorr:

Yeah.

Julia Olff:

They are – since I started Jakafi, they’ve controlled like they have never, ever been, or not in a decade. So, they’re probably between 250 and 300, I would say.

Andrew Schorr:

Oh boy. Okay.

Julia Olff:

Yeah. I’ve got platelets to spare.

Andrew Schorr:

Well, I would take some. So – and Ruben knows this about me. So, my platelets have traditionally been low, and they got as low as a few months ago, 40,000. And now I’ve been doing through treatment, actually, for this other condition I’ve had, chronic lymphocytic leukemia, and they were up to about 100. Ruben, one of the things I was told by my doctors was don’t do contact sports, because my spleen was getting larger, and also, I had low platelets.

So, what about the kind of exercise you do if your platelets are lower? What’s your thought about that?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Well, I would say that, barring extremely low platelets, i.e., under 15,000, most routine forms of exercise that are cardiovascular, that are elliptical machines, that are weight-lifting, others sorts of things – all of those sorts of things are fine. I think the sports that one would probably avoid with either of those situations is truly kind of contact teams sports – rugby, football, etc., where there’s very significant contact. Down here in Texas, I certainly have seen people riding the mechanical bull. I’m not sure that’s a good idea for anybody, but those sorts of extreme things. There is a bit of a misperception regarding the spleen and it being fragile with MPNs.

It sometimes makes people a little too fearful of doing exercise. The spleen enlarged with acute illnesses from a virus, most commonly mononucleosis or mono, is an area where the spleen grows very quickly. It’s very fragile. And constantly, you hear about people having their spleens rupture with playing volleyball, or football, or what have you. And in MPNs, that really is much less of a case. It’s not nearly as fragile. And it really – it’s not a concern for rupture with all the sorts of normal routine things one would do as an individual with exercise.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. So, Julia, have you had any worries about the kind of exercise you would do related to your condition, whether you’re gonna have a stroke, or bleeding, or maybe not bleeding, but other complications?

Julia Olff:

I think right after the TIA, and I can’t remember for how long, but maybe for a few months, I was feeling cautious about movement. And my platelets were not yet under control, so I was dizzy. And then they put me on Plavix as well, so that was sort of making it hard to do a lot physically anyway. Since being on Jakafi, having my counts much more controlled and having more energy from Jakafi, I don’t think I – I’m frankly jealous of other people that can do real exercise. I see people run past my window, joggers, etc. But I don’t feel like I have the energy to do that. So, for me, walking is really – walking and walking up steps are my physical activities. And the trips that my husband and I have taken really involve walking and the occasional swim in places that – you’re in sunny California, so maybe you have a pool. But, you know.

Andrew Schorr:

I have an ocean.

Julia Olff:

Yeah, and an ocean. That’s a lot of – to go into an ocean and deal with the forces of the waves, etc. To me, that would be too exhausting. So, I’m sticking with walking. That’s . . .

Andrew Schorr:

Yeah. Let me make a comment about exercise, just because I’ve been doing it for many years. So, yeah, after the marathons and all that. Esther and I go to the gym every day. And we joined one of these ones that’s open day and night. And we go, whatever our schedule is, and I get on the elliptical, and I do what I can. I watch the news, which maybe is a good thing or a bad thing. But at any rate – and I don’t beat myself up about how I did compared to the day before, or the month before, or whatever. But I just do it. And then sometimes, we run, and then we work in biking. So, that’s what we do.

And I would really urge people, because Julia, wouldn’t you agree, there’s a whole psychological benefit to just exercising or getting out there too?

Julia Olff:

Absolutely. And I know Dr. Mesa will – I’ve heard him talk about this, and I certainly read about, try to keep up to date, just talking about the news, about health information sources that reiterate things like getting yourself out. There’s something about stepping outside, and if you have some sunshine, and feeling that that helps, even when I don’t feel well. So, I feel like I always want to get out and move a little bit. And I just try to pace myself. And Julie was saying earlier, and I was thinking about there’s the physical activity, and there’s the amount of time I stand. I love to cook, so for me, being in the kitchen at 4:00 in the afternoon and making a two-hour recipe is a lot of fun.

But it starts to wear on me. And so, standing is a kind of form of exercise that you forget about.

Andrew Schorr:

Do you have a recipe you think – you enjoy making, and it’s an affirmation of better health for you? Something that you feel –

Julia Olff:

Yes.

Andrew Schorr:

What’s that?

Julia Olff:

I think the roasting vegetables. So, every vegetable tastes better roasted, I think. And I roast just about everything. And it’s so easy, because you can flip the oven onto 400 and go about your business. Once you’ve mixed with vegetables, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, different kinds of earthy potatoes, sweet potatoes, and olive oil. Light on the salt, pepper, garlic. And it’s good stuff, and it’s easy.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay, Julie, I have some questions for you, because again, it’s in my daily life, maybe others.

And if you all out there in online video land have questions, please send them to MPN@patientpower.info, and our producer Jamie’s gonna forward some to me, and we’ll pose them before the end of the hour. So, Julie, we cook some things in a wok, and we cut up vegetables. And but my wife has started us using a little bit of something called ghee, which I think is clarified butter. So, how do you feel about that? Or should we be using some other oil instead?

Julie Lanford:

So, when it comes to fats, we like for people to have more of the unsaturated, sort of heart healthy fats, is what we think of, and less of the saturated animal fats. Less of doesn’t mean none. And so, there’s certainly room. I would say ghee and butter are similar in terms of their saturated fat content, as is coconut oil, which sort of has this health halo right now, but it’s still a saturated fat.

So, what I would tell you is it depends on the recipe. If it requires that you use a solid fat in order for the recipe to work, then I would use it. If you can use olive oil instead, or canola oil, or peanut oil, I would choose those. And so, as long as you’re getting a variety. But if you’re always using butter or coconut oil, or if you are somebody who heard coconut oil was healthy and switched from olive oil to coconut oil, we wouldn’t really recommend that. So, it’s really more about the balance, and also how much of it you use. Now, if people are using it so that they will eat vegetables, I think that it’s still an overall gain, because we want people to eat vegetables. And talking about roasted vegetables, nobody’s gonna eat something if it doesn’t taste good. I don’t care how healthy it is. So, we need for you to figure out ways that make healthy food taste good. And so, we try to balance that when we’re giving those recommendations, but you know.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. I’m gonna skip back to exercise for a minute, related to sort of mindfulness as well. So, Julia, you told me that you were actually in a yoga study. Is that right?

Julia Olff:

Yes, one that Arizona State and Dr. Mesa’s team was running. I was in a control group, so I didn’t get to initially participate, but they were – and hopefully, Dr. Mesa will share the results, but they were looking at the benefits of yoga for people with MPNs.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. What about it, Dr. Mesa?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

So, yoga is something that has been found to be helpful in a variety of diseases. And in particular, it’s been primarily studied in breast cancer. So, we wanted to help to demonstrate really several things as an evolving arc with my colleague Jennifer Huberty that leads kind of this exercise research activity at Arizona State.

So, one, we wanted to prove that yoga can be helpful, that yoga has several components, both physical activity as well as a meditation component. And we wanted it to be something that people could utilize really at their homes. And much of the yoga research done in cancer patients or others has been a bit artificial, with people having to travel into the city to go to a center that wasn’t very feasible. So, we’ve completed two studies and seek funding from the National Cancer Institute for the third. The first study, we developed a series of yoga modules to be done at home, in partnership with an online yoga instruction company called Udaya. And what they do is they develop yoga modules to have people do yoga at home. Well, we taught them about MPNs over a couple day period of time. And they created some modified yoga specific for MPN patients.

So, the first study we had was a feasibility study, which we published in the medical literature, where we showed that in about 30 patients, we found that they could figure out how to use the modules, that they used them, that they could use them safely. But whether there was really feasibility – is it feasible? And in that small group, we were able to show that there was also some benefits. They felt better, they felt better, they slept better, they had improvements in fatigue, etc.

The second study was the study that she just mentioned, that was yoga versus a control, where people were on a waitlist, and then after the period of time, they then could use the modules.

And in that study period comparing the two, in addition to measuring the impact of the yoga, we also were measuring blood levels of different levels of inflammation-related proteins or cytokines in the blood to see what sort of impact, in addition to sleep, fatigue, symptoms was having on the biology of issues of inflammation. And we’ll be presenting next week at the American Society of Hematology some of those results. But what we found is, one, not surprisingly, we think yoga is helpful. And it helped with fatigue. It helped with issues of mood and depression. And I think consistent with what’s being seen in other areas, one of the major benefits of yoga might be enhanced sleep. It is one of those potential benefits of yoga. Two, there are, again, the two components. There’s really an activity part with the poses and things of that nature, and is that better or worse than doing an elliptical machine? I don’t think that’s been studied.

But there’s that part. But then there’s really also a meditative part that includes breathing, balance, etc. So, I think there’s a variety of parts, and we’re working to study these different parts. We’re looking to study, how do we take people who have really not been active before? How do you get started in yoga is a little different than having people that have already been fit in the past, and really look to better understand these things so that we can really move to a place where they can be a resource for MPN patients, but also so that physicians know how to recommend or utilize tools like yoga for appropriate patients.

Andrew Schorr:

Yeah, I can’t wait to hear more about it at the ASH conference that’s coming up. And we’ll be covering it, so we’ll look for that. So, we started getting some questions. This one’s from Susan. In recognizing that there will be some patients who will need a stem cell transplant with myelofibrosis, we might progress to that.

And certainly, I know people like that. Julia, you may too. So, two questions about that, Ruben. One is, is there some physical conditioning you should do if you know you’re gonna be headed for a transplant? And second of all, what about recovery? In other words, will you do better with a transplant if you’re in better shape, and how can exercise be used to help you recover from the transplant?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Both are very good questions. Without question, physical activity with transplant is important. And people that go into a transplant stronger are clearly better off. But that clearly needs to be balanced with their physicians. What we clearly wouldn’t want is someone kind of wearing themselves out or trying to tackle too much in terms of exercise before a transplant either. You really want to go in kind of the best shape that you can.

Second, most transplant programs now really do try to, even during the process of transplant, try to maintain people’s strength the best they can. That might include everything from activities that are there in the hospital room or at the hospital. I’ve seen everything from kind of modified elliptical machines that you do while sitting down to other things. Without question, there will be days during the transplant people just don’t feel well enough to do that, and that’s fine. But the more days that people are active, really probably the better off they are. And on the backend, without question, whenever you have a very significant health intervention – I don’t care whether it’s a surgery, clearly a bone marrow transplant, anything that’s very dramatic like that, the process of active recovery, it’s a real process that, again, you’re starting a bit from scratch because you’re set back a bit with clearly going through a process like that.

But active recovery is key. People sometimes think, well, I had this big surgery, and it could be breast cancer. It could be a bone marrow transplant. And they think at the tail end, when they’re done, that they’re just gonna kind of bounce back to be exactly the way they were before when they started. And unfortunately, that’s not the way the body walks. You really have to kind of build that level of fitness back up again.

Andrew Schorr:

Hm. Okay. We’re getting questions about being a vegetarian. Grant wrote in and wonders – and I’ll pose this to you, Dr. Mesa, and also to Julie – Grant wants to know, is there any benefit to being a vegan or vegetarian when you have PV?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

So, it’s a good question. I’d say, in short, I don’t think that there’s any evidence to suggest that you’re better off being a vegan or a vegetarian versus having a good healthy diet.

Are you better off being a vegan or a vegetarian than kind of a general U.S. fatty, salty, fried diet? Oh, absolutely. But compared to a general diet that has appropriate meat, and fish, and eggs, and other things, I wouldn’t say that there’s necessarily a big difference. Now, with PV, there’s always the issue of iron. When we do phlebotomies, part of the reason phlebotomies help to keep the blood counts controlled, specifically the red blood cells, is by making an individual iron deficient. And medicine sometimes can alleviate that, but it’s making people iron deficient. So, if you eat a lot of iron in your diet, particularly iron supplements, you’re really working at cross-purposes. You’re taking iron out by phlebotomy, but then you’re giving iron back in by a supplement. Doesn’t make a lot of sense. The amount of iron in the normal or a healthy diet is modest enough that we have not recommended the individuals to specifically avoid meat or natural food-based sources of iron.

We’re not trying to build their iron levels up, but nor do they need to have draconian avoidance of meat or iron in their diet. But no iron supplements.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. And just so we know, Julie, was it spinach? Or what are some of the foods people often eat when they’re trying to boost their iron?

Julie Lanford:

So, the typical foods that we think of as really high iron foods are going to be more animal-based. Clearly, liver is sort of one of the top sources. Not many people eat a lot of that. But even clams, mussels, oysters, cooked beef tend to be the things that people think of. When it comes to the plant sources of foods and iron, they’re just not absorbed as easily. And there’s usually other factors that sort of inhibit the absorption of iron.

So, cooked spinach is usually picked up on as well, because you know what happens when you take a lot of spinach and you cook it, and it’s like down to nothing. Well, you’re eating a lot of spinach when you eat it when it’s cooked. So, those are things that I wouldn’t be particularly concerned about, unless your doctor has said you need to pay attention to your iron sources. What I would say when it comes to vegetarian diets, vegetarians tend to have better health outcomes because of that eating pattern of having more vegetables and plant foods in their diet, which has a lot of great nutrients. I think you can eat a plant-based diet that still includes meat if you want to. You don’t have to. It’s a pretty wide range of what we would consider to be healthy eating. But you would want to make sure that you’re getting labs checked. Plus, the nice thing about going to the doctor all the time is that they do kind of stay on top of your labs, so you would pick up if you’re becoming deficient in something.

For vegans, we focus on B12. It takes a long time to become deficient, but that can also sort of play into anemias and things. So, you would just want to keep an eye on that. I don’t promote a vegan diet, but I think if somebody wants to follow a vegan diet, I’m perfectly happy for them to do that, as long as they’re monitoring their labs.

Andrew Schorr:

So, Dr. Mesa, and well, Julia, I’ll ask you first. Julia, did you make any changes when you were diagnosed with what became known as a cancer? Like in my case, Esther had us getting distilled water at the house. But I mean, did you do anything like that? She had me stop drinking coffee. I don’t mean to blame Esther. We lived in Seattle, where Starbucks came from, but we made challenges. Oh my god, does that have something to do with the cancer.

Julia Olff:

Right. I don’t remember then making any significant changes. I do feel like over time, and the more often I’m hospitalized, the more kind of militant I get about avoiding things that make me sicker, like cigarette smoke. Hate walking down the street and having to suck in someone else’s smoke. But dietarily, I just try to have organic vegetables. We have a filter – we do have a filtered water system in the house. Just try to avoid poisons or toxins as much as possible. You mentioned coffee, though, and I wondered what – there’s more research in general out there about the benefits of coffee. For me, coffee, I consider it to be part of my medication regimen. And I’m barely functional until I have that first cup. I literally come down and have a cup of coffee to shower. And I wonder if there’s – if others feel the same way.

Andrew Schorr:

So, Julie, what about caffeine? And also, could you say something about wine, too? Because beer – so many different things. Drink wine, don’t. Red wine, white wine. This leads to cancer. Who knows?

Julie Lanford:

Yeah. Everything, right? So, when you look at actual data – and I rely a lot on the American Institute for Cancer Research, who reviews every study that’s been done. And so, they come up with great recommendations and very commonsense, so I like that. They have tea. So, a lot of people have heard green tea is really good. So, yes, it is. But they also have coffee on their list. Now, the way you have the coffee – Andrew mentioned earlier, syrup in it – that’s why I tell people, if you go to Starbucks and you get four pumps of syrup in your whole milk with whipped cream on top mocha, that’s a dessert. But if you just brew coffee at home, and you put a little bit – I just use milk for mine – that’s perfectly healthy.

And it does have plant nutrients that are good for you. So, I consider it healthy. If you’re sensitive to caffeine and you know that it keeps you up, or whatever, you can get decaf. Or if you just don’t like coffee, drinking tea can give you great benefits as well. When it comes to alcohol, we do know that alcohol increases risk for cancer. I will say, that’s when you drink it regularly. So, that’s when we see people exceeding what we recommend as moderation. And so, if you don’t know the definition of moderation, I’ll teach you that. One drink a day for women, two drinks a day for men. I know, it seems not fair to us women. But that’s what we would say is moderation, and you don’t get to save those up for the weekend. Just because you’ve missed it all week, you don’t load up on the weekend and expect that to also meet the definition of moderation. But if you’re less than that, we consider it to be fine. Although when they said that red wine was good for the heart, they sort of backed away from that more recently.

 It’s the skin of the red grape that’s really good for you. So, it turns out, you can eat grapes. So, that’s my point on that.

Andrew Schorr:

Good advice. Dr. Mesa, we’ve gotten in a couple of questions I wanted to pose to you. One is from Dave and Karen. It says, does exercising affect blood test levels in any aspect? So, let’s say you were a runner, or biked, or went to the gym or something, on the day you were then gonna come to your clinic for a blood test, would the blood test be accurate or changed based on the exercise you just did?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

It probably does impact it to a modest degree. Probably not to a significant degree. So, it might slightly increase the white cell count or the platelet count in kind of that immediate post-exercise period. And clearly, if someone were to be dehydrated, that will make the red blood cell count seem a little bit higher as well.

So, it can kind of both concentrate the blood a little bit, if you’re dehydrated, as well as if it’s really significant exercise and leads to any inflammation, might slightly boost up the white cell count or the platelet count. But again, talking modest levels. A 350 platelet count going to 400, not 350 going to 1.2 million. So, modest increases.

Andrew Schorr:

Right. And all the doctors have told me, you all look at the trends.

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Correct. Correct. Absolutely. And for most regular spurts of going to the gym exercise, probably it’s not even noticeable. But if somebody again did an Iron Man triathlon, you’re gonna notice changes in the blood.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. Well, here’s a guy who’s pretty busy. Mark writes in. He says, I do an hour and a half every morning, stretches, planks, yoga, and even sun salutations. Sometimes I feel slight strain in my large spleen, but it’s never severe and always goes away.

So, he says, on a one to ten scale, Dr. Mesa, how much am I endangering myself, if at all?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

You know, probably a two out of ten, from what it sounds like. Again, it may be more muscle strain, and it probably really isn’t injury of the spleen. But again, this particular activity that really causes muscle strain in that area, I would probably just modify the activity. Again, a very enlarged spleen is different anatomy than even we were kind of built to have. It’s much larger than normal. It’s asymmetric, so accommodating your exercise for that is appropriate. I would probably look at modifying the stretches if the stretches are irritating that.

Andrew Schorr:

Mm-hmm. Okay. So, one of the things I’ll just point out to people – and you mentioned it earlier, Dr. Mesa – is have a conversation with your doctor about where you are, how you’re feeling, what medicines you’re taking, what you like to eat.

And there are people who can help – now, Julie, you have a website where people can send in questions to you. What’s that website?

Julie Lanford:

Yeah. It is cancerdietitian.com, and it’s part of our nonprofit, so there’s no fees or anything.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. Now, that’s very helpful. So, Julia, do you recognize that we with an MPN are sort of a moving target? That whatever is normal or feels good to us may change over time. We have to accept that, but that’s part of our dialogue with our healthcare team as to exercise, diet, medication, what’s right for us at that, point? It’s not static.

Julie Olff:

Absolutely.

Andrew Schorr:

I feel that. And that’s where my dialogue is with my doctor. So, just one last thing. I want to make sure I heard you right, Ruben.

So, contact sports – so, should I worry about biking if my platelets have been lower? That I’m gonna have some accident and I’m gonna bleed to death on the road or something?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

Well, I would say, with 40,000 platelets, I probably would not do kind of the off-road trail cycling with high likelihood of running into rocks or things like that in Arizona, where it can be a bit treacherous. But if you’re really thinking about more gentle cycling, road cycling, particularly if you – and appropriately – are wearing a helmet, it’s probably fine still at that range. At 40,000 platelets, most individuals, even with fairly significant trauma, will still have the same reasonable clotting as other individuals. One probably could have emergency surgery at that level, barring really extreme trauma.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. And the reverse is, if you had really high platelets, and you’re worried about stroke and other things like that, you’re still not worried that somebody’s gonna run around the block, and that’s gonna put them over the edge?

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

I think that’s highly unlikely, without question. Again, whether they’re high and they need treatment or don’t need treatment, clearly it’s a discussion between the patient and their physician. But in general, appropriate exercise with adequate hydration, or clearly exercise that people have really evolved into, as opposed to a dramatic change in activity level, is usually quite safe.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. Well, I’m gonna try to work yoga into what I do. My balance is terrible, but I’m gonna try to do – what is it, downward dog, if I can. And they do it my gym, so I’m gonna try that. And Julie, just as far as diet goes, people can write you.

And again, cancerdietitian.com, right?

Julie Landon:

Yup.

Andrew Schorr:

And I think, again, I mean, it sounds like a broken record, but we talk about the healthy diet, fruits, vegetables, some protein, some meat balance, and not crazy about supplements, right?

Julie Landon:

Right, yeah. Unless there’s a reason that you would need a supplement, I don’t think that the general person just needs to be on one. If you like the idea, a multivitamin that should not break your bank would be fine, and you could even do that every other day, and still, it’d be fine. But it’s not necessary, as far as I’m concerned.

Andrew Schorr:

Well, I want to thank both of you for being with us. So, Julia, as we wrap up, and you’ve been listening as a patient as well and living it, what do you take away from this?

Julia Olff:

I guess I’m thinking about it very personally, that I feel like I’m on the right track. I’m trying to do as much as I can to be well,  and to be well around a disease that we can’t control.

Andrew Schorr:

Right. Well, I have a great – I think, for all of us. I have a good medical team. People like Dr. Mesa, people that may be at your clinic, like Julie, who can help with diet. Social workers as well. And also, you said it earlier, Ruben – accept that normal for you changes, that we do have a condition. I mean, we even refer to people with extreme interventions like a transplant, that you’re in a recovery mode, and you do what you can. And but doing something is a benefit.

I want to thank you all. Dr. Ruben Mesa, I’m gonna see you at ASH coming up. And Ruben, thank you so much for joining us, once again.

Dr. Ruben Mesa:

A great pleasure to be here. Thank you. Great discussion.

Andrew Schorr:

Okay. And Ruben, thanks for your devotion to all of us and to research. We really appreciate it. Julie Lanford with Cancer Services in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, where I spent like 12 years of my life, in North Carolina, thank you so much for being with us, once again.

Julie Lanford:

Thank you for having me. It’s been great.

Andrew Schorr:

And Julia, I’ll see you back in New York City one of these days.

Julie Olff:

All right.

Andrew Schorr:

But I want to wish you all the best. And you and I are on a journey with myelofibrosis now. But every day is special. But we hope we have a lot of them. And enjoy your family and your grandchild. What is her name, Elaina?

Julie Olff:

Elaina. Yes, I’ll see her for the holidays.

Andrew Schorr:

I’m looking for grandchildren, so you can give me pointers. But all the best to you.

Julie Olff:

It’s fun.

Andrew Schorr:

Yeah. Thank you so much.

Julie Olff:

You get to give them back.

Andrew Schorr:

Yeah. Thank you so much for being with us. And I just want to mention to our audience, Dr. Mesa referred to it, the kind of World Series of blood-related conditions is the American Society of Hematology. And there’ll be 25,000-plus people there.

And we’ll be there with our team, getting the latest information and bringing it to you, even some live broadcasting. So, if you are not a member of patient power, go to patientpower.info, sign up for the ASH daily updates. And whatever there is about MPNs, we’re gonna bring it to you. And there will be a replay of this Patient Empowerment Network program coming soon that you can share and go over again. Thank you so much for joining us. We wish everybody the best of health. Go out there and do what exercise that you can. A little more is probably better. And think of yoga, and also that balanced diet. I’m Andrew Schorr in Carlsbad, California, feeling good about things. Remember, knowledge can be the best medicine of all.

MPN Patient Cafe® October 2017 – Value in Communicating with Friends and Family

MPN Patient Cafe® – Value in Communicating with Family and Friends from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

In this session of the Patient Cafe®, a group of MPN patients share their experience in communicating with family, friends and others about their condition. Each person has a unique perspective on how they’ve relayed information to their employer, educated their family and friends or, in some cases, kept to themselves for a period of time.