Tag Archive for: flow cytometry

How Is Flow Cytometry Used in CLL?

How is Flow Cytometry Used in CLL? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Chronic lymphocytic leukemia uses flow cytometry as part of testing methods, but how is it used? Watch to learn about the information provided by flow cytometry tests and how the information is used for CLL patients.

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Transcript:

Chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) can be either a slower-growing or faster-growing type depending on the patient. There are several tests that CLL specialists use in diagnosing the condition – with flow cytometry being one of the testing tools.

Flow cytometry provides information about particle or cell characteristics including:

  • DNA gene expression
  • Total DNA
  • Cell structure
  • Cell size
  • Newly-created DNA
  • Amount and type of specific surface receptors
  • Intracellular proteins
  • Transient signaling

Dr. Lyndsey Roeker:                

“So, at diagnosis flow cytometry is the first test done, and what that means is, you take all of your white blood cells in your blood, and you run them through a fancy machine that puts them into buckets. So, you have a bucket of your normal neutrophils, a bucket of your normal lymphocytes, and then you find this bucket of cells that look somewhat unusual. And those have a specific look, if you will, and if they look like CLL cells, that’s how we make the diagnosis.”

The properties found in flow cytometry help to determine the type of CLL that a patient has. CLL specialists then use flow cytometry results along with other blood tests, a patient’s medical history, and other signs and symptoms to establish CLL prognosis and treatment options. Flow cytometry is a key test that confirms CLL diagnosis by checking a patient’s bone marrow or blood cells for signs of CLL, and test results are used to help determine optimal care for each patient.

CLL Patient-Expert Q&A

Dr. Nadia Khan | CLL Patient-Expert Q&A from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Is CAR T-cell therapy a cure for chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL)? What specific lab tests will I need to get a second opinion? CLL expert Dr. Nadia Khan answers questions from CLL patients and families. 

Have a question for a future Patient-Expert Q&A Email us: question@powerfulpatients.org with subject line: CLL Patient-Expert Q&A 

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Transcript:

Mary Leer:

Dr. Khan, first of all, thank you for being part of this program. 

Dr. Nadia Khan:

Thank you so much for inviting me to participate.

Mary Leer:

We have a question from Larry about side effects. Larry says: I’ve been fighting side effects with each medicine. Will the correct answer for side effects in CLL always be to stop the medicine? 

Dr. Nadia Khan:

Larry, thank you for your question. It is an excellent one, and this is something that we encounter on a very regular basis in CLL patients who are on targeted therapies. The side effects occur frequently in patients taking BTK inhibitors, in patients taking PIK inhibitors, and we have some side effects reported on BCLT inhibitors as well, typically side effects on all of these targeted therapies can be managed with either dose reduction or supportive therapies, and we don’t necessarily have to stop a medication due to a side effect that is encountered, and of course, it would depend on the type of side effect and the severity of the side effect before deciding to pause therapy for a time or to dose reduce or add other medications to help.

Mary Leer:

Sarah has a question about side effects. How can I tell if side effects are from CLL, my medicine, or just a part of aging? 

Dr. Nadia Khan:

Thanks for that question, Sarah. It can be a challenge to tease out the cause of any given complaint, whether the symptom is due to underlying other medical conditions, the medications a patient is on, their CLL therapy, their CLLl itself is something that we find to be challenging, and it can often be a process of elimination and understanding when side effects started and how they are related to the known side effect profile of a therapy is often a starting point. Depending on the side effect, we may decide to institute a treatment holiday, and if the side effect improves or resolves during the treatment holiday, it’s more clear that the side effect is due to the medication in question. If the side effect persists during that period of time, then it’s more likely to be due to something else.

Mary Leer:

George asks, are there any long-term side effect risks for CLL patients? 

Dr. Nadia Khan:

That’s a great question, George. It really would depend on the therapy being instituted and when in the chemoimmunotherapy era for CLL patients, we have a very different perspective of what short-term and long-term side effects were and are for those patients who have been treated with chemoimmunotherapy. For patients treated with targeted therapies and immunotherapy combinations today, there tends to be fewer serious long-term side effects when looking at the various drug classes. For example, BTK inhibitors, there is a risk of atrial fibrillation that remains constant throughout the course of therapy, and if a patient is on therapy for one year or 10 years, they can develop that particular side effect. High blood pressure can be significant with BTK inhibitors as well, and that risk also tends to be stable. In terms of infection risk, there is relative immunosuppression with all CLL therapeutics, and so our concern, more recently has been focused on COVID infection, serious bacterial and viral infections tend to be less frequent, we don’t institute prophylaxis for those infections because they tend to be so few and far between in the patients that we’ve treated. 

Mary Leer:

Thank you, Dr. Khan. Here’s a question from Richard:  I am a CLL patient currently on “watch and wait.”  When is the right time and what tests should have been performed before seeing a CLL specialist? 

Dr. Nadia Khan:

Richard, thank you for your excellent question. There are a number of tests with respect to CLL that help us to prognosticate more accurately, and those would include either a FISH panel, fluorescence in situ hybridization for CLL which identifies this common amplification and deletions that have been described in CLL. Additionally, an IgVH mutational test and a TP53 sequencing test would be the three basic prognostic tests used to identify what kind of CLL a patient has. This testing should be repeated at any point wherein a patient is changing therapy or at any point where there’s a change in the clinical status of the patient. Outside of these standard tests, there are other molecular tests that can be ordered and are commercially available for use… For use by clinicians. These molecular tests can also identify changes within the CLL that can help to prognosticate at this time, outside of the standard tests that I mentioned to you, there are no proven benefits to other testing, but the results of additional testing can just really help inform your clinician about the likelihood of you needing treatment in the near future and the likelihood of response to therapy. 

Mary Leer:

This question comes from Laurie. How common is it for CLL patients to develop a second gene mutation? 

Dr. Nadia Khan:

Laurie, Thanks for that question. It is not common for most call patients to have significant alterations in the genetic landscape of the CLL. With that being said, there are a few notable exceptions for CLL with TP53 dysfunction or complex cytogenetics, there is a higher likelihood that there will be genetic instability in those CLL clones. Therefore, it’s important to retest for changes if there is a change in the biology of the CLL, if there is a progression on therapy, for example, or at the time when a new therapy is planned.

Mary Leer:

Yolanda’s question is, what is CAR T therapy and who is eligible? 

Dr. Nadia Khan:

Thank you, Yolanda. This is a question that I get asked very frequently. CAR-T therapy is an exciting cellular therapy that has been FDA-approved in a number of lymphomas, and it is currently not FDA-approved for patients with CLL. So at this time, CLL patients can receive CAR-T therapy in the setting of a clinical trial only, and it is typically reserved for those patients who have progressed or relapsed after multiple lines of therapy and for whom there is no alternative therapy for consideration. Often, it is considered in the context of the clinical trial prior to the use of allogeneic stem cell transplant, because the results of allo transplant and CAR-T seemed to be fairly comparable. CAR T therapy, however is much better tolerated than allo transplant, both of these modalities are very rarely employed for our CLL patient today because of the very effective targeted therapies and immunotherapies that we have to use. 

Mary Leer: 

Dr. Khan, Chuck’s question is, what are the side effects of CAR-T cell therapy? 

Dr. Nadia Khan: 

Thank you, Chuck. For your excellent question, CAR-T-therapy is associated with two main types of side effects, one is Cytokine Release syndrome or CRS, which happens within the first two weeks of receiving CAR cells, and that can manifest as fevers, chills, a drop in blood pressure, shortness of breath, and the requirement of oxygen. When that happens to patients, there are medications that are given to help improve those cytokine-mediated events. Another major side effect with CAR-T therapy is neurotoxicity, which also happens within the first 14 days in some patients who receive CAR therapy, and that can manifest as anything from a headache to more concerning confusion, seizures and coma. CRS happens commonly in patients who receive party therapy and is usually managed very successfully with anti-inflammatory therapies given intravenously in the hospital and can be used for patients even who get outpatient CAR-T therapy.

Dr. Nadia Khan: 

When patients do suffer with neuro toxicities, intravenous therapies are also employed to combat that, and when necessary, patients might require escalation to an intensive care setting when these toxicities are very severe.

Mary Leer: 

Dr. Khan, is CAR T therapy a cure for CLL? 

Dr. Nadia Khan: 

Thank you for your question, Bernard. CAR-T therapy has been curative for a minority of patients who have been treated with CARs on clinical trials, and unlike other lymphomas In CLL, there hasn’t been an FDA approval as yet for CAR-T therapy, and we are hopeful for that to change in the future as CARs are modified and may potentially become more effective at eradicating the CLL and hopefully resulting in better side effect profiles and patients who do receive CAR-T therapy, the majority of patients who have received CARs in CLL studies have not had durable remission, unfortunately.

Mary Leer: 

Dr. Khan, what is conditioning therapy and why is it given prior to infusion of the CAR T cells?

Dr. Nadia Khan: 

Thank you, Samuel. Conditioning therapy is a course of – a briefer course of chemotherapy that’s given just prior to CAR-T therapy, really to prepare the body in a way to receive the CARs, and it makes the CARs more effective when there has been a level of immunosuppression to allow the CARs to expand more freely after they have been re-infused into a patient.

Mary Leer: 

Okay, here’s a question that Sandra asks, I’m preparing for CLL treatment, can I take my vitamins, herbs, or other supplements during treatment?

Dr. Nadia Khan: 

Thanks for that excellent question, Sandra. It’s so important to review all of your medications with your provider before starting any therapy during the course of your CLL treatment, drug interactions with herbals and over-the-counter medications can result in serious side effects, some over-the-counters and Herbals can inhibit the effectiveness of CLL therapy. So it’s important to discuss these with your provider on a case-by-case basis.

Mary Leer: 

Dr. Khan, here’s a question that I think many are probably thinking of right now, what tests do you give patients to see if CLL treatment is working?

Dr. Nadia Khan: 

Thank you, Jessica. During the course of CLL treatment and at the end of a time-limited treatment course, we’re assessing for responses, so as a patient is going through their treatment, we may decide to re-image to determine if there has been debulking of lymph nodes. And depending on the treatment that we’re administering and where the lymph nodes are located, we may decide to do imaging sooner or later, so for example, if there are palpable lymph nodes while a patient is on therapy, and we can measure these readily by physical exam in the clinic, we may not feel as compelled to re-image at an early time point, if there is valiantly or in large seen that is hard to palpate. And we want to understand if treatment is working after approximately three to four cycles of therapy, we would assess for a good response to treatment if clinically, it also does appear that patients are responding, and if there was any question as to respond, we would image at an earlier time point when patients are being treated with a Venetoclax [VENCLEXTA] based regimen and there is significant adenopathy or an enlarged spleen, we may reassess the size of lymph nodes and spleen during the course of Venetoclax [VENCLEXTA] ramp-up to determine if patients can be transitioned from inpatient to outpatient ramp-up.

Mary Leer: 

Dr. Khan, this is our final question. Karen asks, with many new therapies available, will watch and wait be redefined for CLL patients? 

Dr. Nadia Khan: 

What an excellent question, Karen. Currently, the strategy for CLL patients is to institute therapy when there is likely to be a benefit with the intervention, and there are studies that are ongoing looking at earlier intervention with oral therapy, and once we see the readout for patients with particularly high-risk features. I think it is possible that we’ll have an alternative strategy for those patients. Thankfully, our CLL patients live very long lives, and what we’ve come to see over decades of treatment experience with our CLL patients is that early intervention to date has not resulted in longer… Longer survival. So at this point, it’s not something that’s recommended, but we may have more information soon.

Mary Leer: 

Dr. Khan, thanks for joining us today and answering all of these questions for our audience. Just a reminder to our audience, please take the CLL-Patient-Expert Q&A survey following this webinar.

Mary Leer: 

Dr. Khan, before we end this program,  what are you optimistic about for the future of CLL? 

Dr. Nadia Khan: 

So I’m very optimistic about the future of CLL therapeutics, we’ve already come to see excellent responses that are very durable with time-limited targeted therapy and immunotherapy approaches. In the future, it is likely that we will be using a more personalized approach to treating any given CLL patient using their genetic and molecular profile to decide on their treatment strategy, a single-agent approach versus multiple targeted therapies to eradicate CLL clones. In the future will be looking at endpoints like minimal residual disease, as well as clonal evolution to help guide our treatment strategy for patients with CLL

How Does Essential Testing Affect Myeloma Care and Treatment?

How Does Essential Testing Affect Myeloma Care and Treatment? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

 Why is it important to ask about essential testing for your myeloma? Find out how test results could reveal more about your myeloma and may help determine the most effective care for your individual disease.

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What Should You Ask Your Doctor About Myeloma Testing?


Transcript:

Why should you ask your doctor about essential myeloma testing?

When a patient is diagnosed with myeloma, they typically undergo a series of tests that aid in diagnosing and staging their individual disease. The standard tests include:

  • Blood Test
  • Urine Test
  • Bone Marrow Biopsy, and
  • Imaging

As research in the field evolves, genetic profiling via more in-depth cytogenetic testing is increasingly common to further classify your myeloma. This testing often identifies unique biomarkers of the myeloma, such as translocations or changes in chromosomes.

So why do the results of these tests matter?

  • The presence of certain biomarkers can indicate a patient is low-risk, which can suggest a more positive prognosis.
  • There are certain biomarkers that indicate high-risk myeloma, meaning an aggressive treatment approach may be more effective.

Knowing your risk in myeloma is useful to your healthcare team when choosing a treatment approach or may help in determining if a clinical trial might be right for you.

How can you Insist on the best care for YOUR myeloma?

  • First, always speak up and ask questions. Remember, you have a voice in YOUR myeloma care. Your doctor is expecting you to ask questions and should be able to answer them.
  • Ask your doctor if you have had or will receive genetic testing for risk stratification and how the results may impact your care and treatment plan. Be sure to ask for paper or electronic copies of your important test results.
  • And finally, bring a friend or a loved one to your appointments to help you process information and to take notes.

To learn more about your myeloma and access tools for self-advocacy, visit powerfulpatients.org/myeloma 

Essential Testing Following a DLBCL Diagnosis

Essential Testing Following a DLBCL Diagnosis from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Following a diffuse large B-cell lymphoma (DLBCL) diagnosis, essential testing should follow. Expert Dr. Loretta Nastoupil explains DLBCL tests that help determine prognosis and guide treatment options for each patient.

Dr. Loretta Nastoupil is Director of the Lymphoma Outcomes Database in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Nastoupil, here.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Let’s look into testing for a moment. What tests are essential when making a diagnosis?

Dr. Nastoupil:

So, at the beginning, we clearly have to have tissue. I always say, “Tissue is the issue.” So, we may have features that are suggestive of lymphoma. And even sometimes radiologists will describe a CT scan or an X-ray and say, “This looks very suspicious for lymphoma.” But unless we actually have a biopsy that confirms lymphoma, we won’t go as far as to render a diagnosis in the absence of a biopsy.

Now our biopsy approaches have evolved over the last few years. The gold standard or what I would consider to be the best approach currently is to actually have an incisional biopsy meaning we find a lymph node that looks suspicious.

And we either remove the entire lymph node or a large section of that lymph node to render a diagnosis because there are various things we need to do to that lymph node.

So, generally, we do what’s called immunohistochemistry staining. So, we stain either surface markers of those cells or markers within the cell because cancer is defined as having an abnormal clone or a population of cells that all have the same features. And they’re able to survive even if the host is not thriving.

So, that’s, essentially, what we’re trying to define. Are there cells in this lymph node that are all the same? And what features do they share in common? And then we will also do something called flow cytometry where we’ll take these cells and essentially sort them according to those surface markers. And that will also tell us – is this a B-cell clone, a T-cell clone, and what features would distinguish one lymphoma from another?

And the last thing that we need tissue for are what we call molecular studies, where we may learn about either genes that are rearranged or mutated within those cells that, again, may help us further classify the lymphoma and, again, group them into higher or potentially lower risk groups.

Katherine:

What do the results of these tests tell us about prognosis and treatment choices?

Dr. Nastoupil:

So, again, everything kind of hinges on what type of lymphoma we’re facing. So, for instance, diffuse large B-cell lymphoma is what we call an aggressive lymphoma. So, what does that mean? It can grow very quickly. It can take over the patient in terms of resources. So, generally, patients will have weight loss and sometimes even constitutional symptoms or B symptoms, such as night sweats and fevers, fatigue.

In the absence of treatment, it is universally fatal. Now, that timeline can vary from one person to another. But, generally, within a year, if we don’t treat large cell lymphoma, generally, that’s not survivable.

But as I’ve also mentioned for at least 60 percent of patients and potentially even more, we can cure it with standard treatment. There are other types of lymphoma, such as indolent B-cell lymphomas where actually the goal is not cure, but patients may actually have a normal life expectancy meaning they will face multiple treatment courses over their lifetime. But at the end of the day, they should live just as long as someone their same age and sex who doesn’t have lymphoma.

So, again, that’s going to be a vastly different treatment course and outcome. So, sometimes, when you’re sitting in the waiting room and you’re sharing your journey with others, you have to keep in mind that you may all be using the same term, Non Hodgkin lymphoma. But our expectations in terms of treatments and outcomes might be vastly different. 

Which Tests Do You Need Before Deciding on a CLL Treatment Path?

Which Tests Do You Need Before Deciding on a CLL Treatment Path? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Why do you need biomarker testing before deciding on a treatment plan for your CLL? Learn which key tests should occur before treatment begins and how the results may impact your care decisions.

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Transcript:

Why do you need biomarker testing before deciding on a treatment plan for chronic lymphocytic leukemia—also known as CLL?

The results may predict how your CLL will behave and could indicate that one type of treatment may be more effective than another.

Biomarker testing—also referred to as risk stratification, genetic, or molecular testing—identifies specific gene mutations, proteins, chromosomal abnormalities and/or other molecular changes that are unique to YOUR CLL. 

These changes are only in the CLL cells and do not affect all the cells in your body.  These are not genetic changes that you inherit or pass on to your children.

Several tests that may help to guide these decisions, include:

  • The FISH test identifies chromosome abnormalities, including high-risk markers like the 17p deletion.
  • Next is testing for IGHV mutational status, which determines whether IGHV is mutated in a patient. Mutated IGHV indicates lower-risk CLL.
  • Then there is the TP53 mutation status test, which looks for mutations in the TP53 gene.

So why do these tests results matter?

One reason they matter is because patients with certain biomarkers may respond better to one treatment approach over another. 

  • For example, patients who are IGHV mutated have a special benefit from chemoimmunotherapy with FCR and could consider this approach. Patients who are IGHV unmutated should not consider FCR.
  • Additionally, patients with deletion 17p or TP53 mutations should never take chemoimmunotherapy, as it results in only a very short-term benefit.

When are these tests administered?

IGHV status typically doesn’t change over time and only needs testing at diagnosis or before your initial treatment.

FISH and TP53 should be repeated before beginning every treatment regimen, as these results may change over the course of the disease.

How can you make sure you have had essential biomarker testing?

  • First, always speak up and ask questions. Remember, you have a voice in YOUR CLL care. Your doctor is expecting you to ask questions and should be able to answer them.
  • Ask your doctor if you have had or will receive biomarker testing—including FISH, IGHV, and TP53–and how the results may impact your care and treatment plan. Be sure to ask for paper or electronic copies of your important test results.
  • And finally, bring a friend or a loved one to your appointments to help you process information and to take notes.

To learn more about your CLL and access tools for self-advocacy, visit powerfulpatients.org/CLL.

What CLL Tests Are Essential and How Do Results Impact Treatment and Prognosis?

What CLL Tests Are Essential and How Do Results Impact Treatment and Prognosis? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo

Which chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) tests are essential for patients? Dr. Lyndsey Roeker shares details about vital tests for CLL and the influence of results on treatment and prognosis.

Dr. Lyndsey Roeker is a hematologic oncologist at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Roeker here.

Download Guide

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Transcript:

Katherine:                  

What tests are necessary to help understand a patient-specific disease, both at diagnosis and prior to treatment?

Dr. Roeker:                

So, at diagnosis flow cytometry is the first test done, and what that means is, you take all of your white blood cells in your blood, and you run them through a fancy machine that puts them into buckets. So, you have a bucket of your normal neutrophils, a bucket of your normal lymphocytes, and then you find this bucket of cells that look somewhat unusual. And those have a specific look, if you will, and if they look like CLL cells, that’s how we make the diagnosis.

As you start reading, you’ll find that people talk about monoclonal B-cell lymphocytosis, which is MVL, CLL, and SLL, and a lot of times, it’s confusing because you start reading, and there are all of these – kind of lingo around it. So, what we’re looking for with flow cytometry is how many cells are in the peripheral blood? If it’s fewer than 5,000 per microliter – so, your doctor will talk to you; they’ll either say five or 5,000, depending on what units they’re using.

If it’s lower than that, and you don’t have any lumps or bumps or lymphadenopathy, meaning enlarged lymph nodes, that’s when we make the diagnosis of monoclonal B-cell lymphocytosis.

So, that’s kind of a pre-cancer diagnosis. Then, CLL, the diagnosis, is made in any patient who has greater than 5,000 cells per microliter, or five, if you’re using that unit, and that’s when the diagnosis of CLL is made. If people have lymph nodes that are enlarged, and there are CLL or SLL cells inside of them, but not a lot of involvement in the blood, that’s when we make the diagnosis of SLL, which is small lymphocytic lymphoma. So, CLL and SLL are really the same disease; it’s just where they manifest, primarily. So, whether it’s mostly in the blood, that’s CLL, or mostly in the lymph nodes, and that’s SLL.

Dr. Roeker:                 

So, that’s the flow cytometry test, and that’s kind of the test that leads to the diagnosis.

Katherine:                  

What about FISH and TP53 mutation?

Dr. Roeker:                 

So, at diagnosis, I often do this testing. Depending on which provider you go to, you may do it at diagnosis or closer to the time of needing treatment. But FISH is basically a test that looks for big changes in the chromosomes. So, if you remember back to high school biology and you see all of those chromosomes laid out, what FISH is looking for is big changes in those chromosomes. So, is there an entire arm of one of the chromosomes missing? And that’s what FISH does.

There’s also something called karyotyping, or in some institutions, they use something called SNP array. These are more refined tests that look for additional changes in the DNA. So, FISH is kind of a targeted look at a few different chromosomes, whereas karyotype or SNP array looks at all of the chromosomes. Then, there is TP53 mutational testing, and that is done through a bunch of different testing, often next-generation sequencing is what we use.

And we basically use a fancy spellcheck to see if there are any misspellings, if you will, in TP53.

And TP53 is a gene that we use. It’s called the guardian of the genome. So, its job is basically to make sure that our cells are reproducing. They keep all the genes in working order. If TP53 is missing or misspelled, it doesn’t work as well, and that’s when people can get more issues with their CLL. It tends to be CLL that behaves a little more aggressively.

Katherine:                  

What about IGHV mutation status?

Dr. Roeker:                 

So, IGHV mutation status is a really important feature because it really is, of all of the things, what helps us understand the best way to go about therapy. And IGHV mutational status is basically a signature of the CLL that helps you understand how mature or immature the CLL cells are.

In general, mature cells tend to behave a little bit more predictively, and in ways that behave a bit better with therapy. So, the more mature cells are actually mutated IGHV, and I know that’s backward, because usually we think of mutated as being back. But in this case, mutated is actually those cells that are a bit more mature, and that just has to do with how white blood cells develop in our body. If it’s IGHV-unmutated, those tend to be the more immature cells that can behave a little more erratically.

Katherine:                  

Which tests need to be repeated over time?

Dr. Roeker:                 

So, IGHV mutational status never changes, so that one does not need to be repeated. TP53 mutational status, FISH, and karyotype or SNP array, are ones that I tend to repeat before we start any therapy. So, at the time that you’re going to start your frontline therapy, and then if you have the disease come back and need to be treated again, I usually repeat those tests because those can change over time.

So, that’s both FISH, karyotype or SNP array, and the TP53 mutational testing.

Katherine:                   

So, it sounds like it’s important for patients to make sure they’ve had this testing. What do the test results reveal about a patient’s prognosis?

Dr. Roeker:                 

So, IGHV mutational status, like I said, really helps us understand how to approach therapy. In general, CLL is a disease that we are increasingly managing with targeted medicines, so drugs that really manipulate the cell biology to either stop the growth of cells or kill the cells so that they pop open. And that has been a trend that has taken place over the last six or seven years, and definitely has revolutionized the treatment of CLL. There is still a small minority of patients, the patients who have IGHV-mutated disease, and are younger, and have fewer other medical problems, that can still be good candidates for chemotherapy.

And the reason that I say that is because in general, chemotherapy for those young, mutated patients cures a subset of patients, so when we look at long-term studies of FCR, which is a combination of chemo and immunotherapy, there are a subset of patients who have a really long period where their disease doesn’t come back, to the point that we call them cured or functionally cured. That’s obviously a word that has a lot of emotional charge around it, and it’s hard because there’s always the possibility of the disease coming back in the future.

But because of those long-term outcomes, we know that there are some patients that can really have long-term benefit from chemoimmunotherapy.

For IGHV-unmutated patients, and especially for patients with TP53 mutations or deletion of 17p, chemoimmunotherapy really is not the right answer, with all of the medications that we have available to us now.