Tag Archive for: MRD

Is It Too Late for a Myeloma Second Opinion?

Is It Too Late for a Myeloma Second Opinion? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

When is the best time to seek a second opinion? Dr. Joshua Richter discusses the benefit of seeking a consult with a myeloma specialist to optimize your care.

Dr. Joshua Richter is director of Multiple Myeloma at the Blavatnik Family – Chelsea Medical Center at Mount Sinai. He also serves as Assistant Professor of Medicine in The Tisch Cancer Institute, Division of Hematology and Medical Oncology. Learn more about Dr. Richter, here.

See More from Thrive Myeloma


Related Programs:

How to Thrive and Set Myeloma Treatment Goals

How to Thrive and Set Myeloma Treatment Goals

Defining the Myeloma Patient Role in Their Care

Defining the Myeloma Patient Role in Their Care

What Are Relapsed and Refractory Myeloma?

What Are Relapsed and Refractory Myeloma?


Transcript:

Katherine:

Randall writes, “I was diagnosed last year with myeloma, and my first treatment worked, but now I’ve relapsed. Is it too late to consider a second opinion or a consult with a specialist? Would that change anything?   

Dr. Richter:

It’s a phenomenal question. There have actually been studies to show that if you engage with a myeloma center at least once within your myeloma journey, you do better than someone who has never done that. So, it is never a bad time to seek out a specialist. And one of the good things that came out of COVID is telemedicine. So, if there’s not someone right in your area, reaching out to some of our advocacy groups to help connect you to physicians like me or any of my colleagues, we’re more than happy to see anyone, I’ll see you with an MGUS that’ll never bother you, as will all of my colleagues and people who work in myeloma.   

If you’ve had one prior line, 15 prior lines, anywhere in between. So, I think it’s always a good idea to see a specialist because he or she is more than happy to work with your local doctor to optimize your treatment without having to necessarily go to another center.

How Long Will Myeloma Maintenance Therapy Last?

How Long Will Myeloma Maintenance Therapy Last? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Joshua Richter, a myeloma specialist, reviews the goals of maintenance therapy and discusses the timeline for this type of treatment.

Dr. Joshua Richter is director of Multiple Myeloma at the Blavatnik Family – Chelsea Medical Center at Mount Sinai. He also serves as Assistant Professor of Medicine in The Tisch Cancer Institute, Division of Hematology and Medical Oncology. Learn more about Dr. Richter, here.

See More from Thrive Myeloma


Related Programs:

Is It Too Late for a Myeloma Second Opinion?

Is It Too Late for a Myeloma Second Opinion?

Key Factors That Guide Myeloma Treatment Decisions

Key Factors That Guide Myeloma Treatment Decisions

What Myeloma Patients Should Know About Treatment Monitoring

What Myeloma Patients Should Know About Treatment Monitoring


Transcript:

Katherine:

Isaac sent us this question. How long does the average myeloma patient remain on Revlimid? And is there a suggested time period? 

Dr. Richter:

Really great question. It depends upon the setting we’re looking at, and for the most part, a lot of people are probably asking about the maintenance setting. So, after initial therapy or after transplant, we put you on Revlimid. How long do we keep you on? The American adage has always been, “More is better,” so as long as you tolerate it and as long as it works. Outside of the U.S., they’ve done a couple of studies looking at one year and then stopping, or two years and then stopping.  

And in a big trial that got presented a year or so ago, they compared the two years then stopping versus just staying on, and the people who just stay on do better.  

So, now the current thinking is just keep you on long-term. What’s going to change that in the long term is we’re starting to use a technology called MRD, minimal residual disease, so, doing a marrow and trying to find one in a million or one in 10 million cancer cells.   

And then, there’s something called sustained MRD meaning if you do two MRD analyses at least 12 months apart and they’re both negative, we call that sustained MRD-negative.   

And, there’s a hint that some people on maintenance Revlimid who have sustained their MRD negativity, they may do just as well stopping versus staying on it. We don’t know exactly who that is yet, but that’s going to be better understood in the next few years.  

What Myeloma Patients Should Know About Treatment Monitoring

What Myeloma Patients Should Know About Treatment Monitoring from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How do you know if your myeloma treatment is working? Dr. Joshua Richter, a myeloma specialist, reviews how treatment response is measured in myeloma and why it’s important to share any symptoms or side effects with the healthcare team.

Dr. Joshua Richter is director of Multiple Myeloma at the Blavatnik Family – Chelsea Medical Center at Mount Sinai. He also serves as Assistant Professor of Medicine in The Tisch Cancer Institute, Division of Hematology and Medical Oncology. Learn more about Dr. Richter, here.

See More from Thrive Myeloma


Related Programs:

Is It Too Late for a Myeloma Second Opinion?

Is It Too Late for a Myeloma Second Opinion?

What Are Common Myeloma Treatment Side Effects?

What Are Common Myeloma Treatment Side Effects?

How Long Will Myeloma Maintenance Therapy Last?

How Long Will Myeloma Maintenance Therapy Last?


Transcript:

Katherine:

So, once treatment has begun, how do you know if it’s working? 

Dr. Richter:

Absolutely. So, the majority of myeloma patients are what we call “secretory.” And by “secretory,” it means that the cancer cells secrete a protein that we can measure in the blood either an M-spike, which is an intact immunoglobulin like IgG and kappa, or a free light chain. It doesn’t make that IgG part, just a free kappa or free lambda. And basically, when these protein levels go up, we know the cancer cells are growing. When these go down, we know we’re killing the cancer cells. And we actually call your remission based on how much we lower it.  

If we lower it 25 to 49 percent, that’s an MR or minor response, or minor remission. 50 to 89 percent is a PR, partial response, partial remission. 90 to 99 percent is a VGPR, a very good partial remission, and then all gone in the blood and then we do a bone marrow is a CR or complete remission.  

For some people, their disease can be non-secretory where the cancer cells don’t make that protein anymore.  

And for those people, we need to do regular imaging to see if they have growths of myeloma we call plasmacytomas, or unfortunately, we need to do regular bone marrow biopsies to see how much of the bad cells are growing inside the marrow. 

Katherine:

All right. How do you know when it’s time to switch treatment? 

Dr. Richter:

So, in general, when patients fulfill the criteria for what we call “progressive disease” or PD, that’s the time to change, or intolerance that regardless of how we dose adjust, dose hold or add supportive care, it’s not tolerable for a patient to continue.  

Intolerance is a very personal thing. There are things that certain people are willing to tolerate and others not. So, we try to adjust that. Just like we have criteria for response, PR, VGPR, we have criteria for progression. And in general, it’s a 25 percent increase from your baseline and 0.5 increase in your M-spike or 100 increase in your light chains. So, when the disease numbers are going up, we tend to switch.  

Now, people may say, “But I feel fine,” and a lot of this is because you’re diagnosed with an amount of disease up here. We get you in remission, you’re down here. And once you go like this, we can see the writing on the wall and we’d rather be proactive than reactive. So, instead of waiting until the numbers get up here to cause trouble, once it goes from there to there, we intervene, change therapy to bring it back down. 

Katherine:

Dr. Richter, why is it essential for patients to share any issues they may be having with their healthcare team?  

Dr. Richter:

It is absolutely crucial because some things that may be very, very minor to them may be the tip of the iceberg of something very, very worrisome that we really need to investigate because sometimes, little problems are little now, and over time, they can become problems that we can’t so easily reverse. So, things like neuropathy, fatigue, or actually better yet, what I tell my patients is, “You know your body. If there is something out of the ordinary, big or small, let us know.”  

And I would way rather a patient tell me 10 things in a row that mean nothing than not tell me about that one thing that means something.  

So, for example, one of the disorders that’s associated with myeloma is called amyloidosis.  

And when amyloid attacks the kidneys, you start to have protein in the urine, and this looks like bubbles, like foam in the urine. So, if someone has no foam when they urinate, and then over a period of months to years, they’re starting to notice lots of foam, tell me because that means we may need to look for things like amyloid.  

So, really any time something changes.  

What Are Common Myeloma Treatment Side Effects?

What Are Common Myeloma Treatment Side Effects? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Myeloma specialist Dr. Joshua Richter reviews common side effects of myeloma treatment and strategies for managing them. 

Dr. Joshua Richter is director of Multiple Myeloma at the Blavatnik Family – Chelsea Medical Center at Mount Sinai. He also serves as Assistant Professor of Medicine in The Tisch Cancer Institute, Division of Hematology and Medical Oncology. Learn more about Dr. Richter, here.

See More from Thrive Myeloma


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How to Thrive and Set Myeloma Treatment Goals

How to Thrive and Set Myeloma Treatment Goals

How Can Myeloma Treatment Impact Kidney Health?

How Can Myeloma Treatment Impact Kidney Health?

How Long Will Myeloma Maintenance Therapy Last?

How Long Will Myeloma Maintenance Therapy Last?


Transcript:

Katherine:

Can you help us understand some of the common issues that myeloma patients experience and how they might be managed? 

Dr. Richter:

Sure. So, fatigue is an absolutely huge one. And fatigue can come from a lot of different things. One, fatigue can come from other medicines. A lot of patients have cardiac issues and may be on other medicines causing fatigue. So, optimizing your other clinical status is important. Anemia can lead to fatigue, so we monitor your blood counts very closely, and if they drop, can we provide medicines to boost them up? Drugs. Some of the therapies we have can cause fatigue, and one of the biggest ones is Revlimid.  

And I tell people what actually tends to help is you take the Revlimid at night instead of the morning because if you take it at night, it tends to maximize the fatigue while you’re already sleeping. If you take it in the morning, it tends to maximize at that horrible, coffee-needing hour of 3:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., or 4:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. where you’re like, “Oh, I’ve gotta lie down.” So, fatigue is a really big one. Neuropathy. Neuropathy is really getting less and less in our new patients because more of our modern drugs don’t cause it, but unfortunately, some patients still have neuropathy, and they may be using drugs like gabapentin or Lyrica.  

There’s some other really old drugs and new drugs that can help. Drugs like Pamelor, which is nortriptyline, or Cymbalta may help quite a bit, or another drug called Effexor. And many of these drugs may be used for anxiety and depression, but also work for neuropathy. And then, even going to things like the cannabinoids; things like marijuana derivatives may actually be able to help both in salves or even edibles may actually help some of the neuropathy issues. And then, we get into some kind of out there stuff like compounding ketamine to help with some of these salves or oral combinations. So again, a little bit of neuropathy, let us know because there may be some ways to help.  

Defining the Myeloma Patient Role in Their Care

Defining the Myeloma Patient Role in Their Care from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Why should myeloma patients speak up and be active partners in their care? Dr. Joshua Richter, a myeloma expert at Mount Sinai, explains the importance of communicating with your healthcare team and the difference it can make in your overall care.

Dr. Joshua Richter is director of Multiple Myeloma at the Blavatnik Family – Chelsea Medical Center at Mount Sinai. He also serves as Assistant Professor of Medicine in The Tisch Cancer Institute, Division of Hematology and Medical Oncology. Learn more about Dr. Richter, here.

See More from Thrive Myeloma


Related Programs:

What Myeloma Patients Should Know About Treatment Monitoring

What Myeloma Patients Should Know About Treatment Monitoring

Key Factors That Guide Myeloma Treatment Decisions

Key Factors That Guide Myeloma Treatment Decisions

How Long Will Myeloma Maintenance Therapy Last?

How Long Will Myeloma Maintenance Therapy Last?


Transcript:

Katherine:

Well, tell me what you think the patient’s role is, then, in setting care goals.

Dr. Richter:

Absolutely. The patient has the most crucial role of course. And, one of the things is honesty and really being to a point of brutal honesty with how they’re doing. I always tell patients, “You don’t get extra points for suffering. It’s not that if you sit there in pain you’re going to do better. Let me know what type of pain you’re having.” And pain doesn’t just mean a bone is hurting, or a muscle’s hurting, we call somatic pain.

There can be neuropathic pain where the nerves hurt.

There can be emotional and spiritual pain. These things all need to be addressed. And if you are suffering in silence, we have a lot of tools nowadays not just medicines. We have people to talk to. We have resources. So, letting us in to help is one of the most crucial things because we’ve actually shown that if you actually improve some of these, you may actually improve overall outcomes. So, the patient, please, all we want to do on the care side of the equation is help.

Let us know what’s bothering you. It may be small to you, it may be big to us, or vice versa, but the more open you are, the better we can help.

Katherine:

What advice do you have for patients to help them feel confident in speaking up and becoming a partner in their care? 

Dr. Richter:

So, that’s not always easy for a lot of people to do, and for some people, no problem. They’ll speak up at the first sign of anything. One bit of advice I would give to people who may have concerns or may not feel as comfortable about doing this is first of all, there’s a lot of members of the care team. So, I have patients that may not want to mention it to me, but mention it to my nurse or the medical assistant, and we all talk. So, that’s one way.  

The other thing that I think may help is involvement in patient support groups, hearing what others have to say about similar experiences and learning from them, them learning from you, and that may actually give you more of a confidence to speak with your care team. But the advocacy groups like the MMRF and IMF have tons of local support groups where you can sit in, and specialists come and speak or people share stories. And I think that can be really helpful to figuring out your optimal journey.  

Myeloma Treatment & Research Updates From 2022 ASCO and EHA Meetings

Myeloma Treatment & Research Updates From 2022 ASCO and EHA Meetings from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Myeloma specialist and researcher Dr. Krina Patel discusses highlights from the recent American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO) annual meeting and the European Hematology Association (EHA) 2022 Congress. Dr. Patel shares promising research updates related to approaches including: stem cell transplant, CAR T-cell therapy, and bispecifics.

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma. Learn more about Dr. Patel, here.

Related Resources:

How Does Immunotherapy Treat Myeloma?

What Is Myeloma CAR T-Cell Therapy?

Immunotherapy: Which Myeloma Patients Is It Right For?

Transcript:

Katherine:   

Dr. Patel, cancer researchers recently came together at the annual ASCO and EHA meetings. Are there any highlights from the meetings that myeloma patients should know about?

Dr. Patel:    

Yeah, so we had some amazing trials that were presented at both. And I got to actually go to Chicago for the ASCO meeting, and I’ll say we actually had a plenary session that was presented for myeloma. That doesn’t happen as often as we like. So, basically that was a study presented by Dana-Farber and all of the different groups around the U.S. that did a transplant study. And basically, they’re looking at patients who got induction therapy when they’re newly diagnosed with transplant versus they didn’t get transplant upfront. And it’s called the determination study, and it was to determine should everybody be getting a stem cell transplant.

Katherine:  

Right.

Dr. Patel:   

And this is a trial that’s been going on for over 10 years; that’s why it was so highly anticipated. And basically, the biggest thing that we saw was what we call progression-free survival; so, the time that the myeloma hibernates is what I call it, for PFS. Basically, patients who got transplant upfront, it was 21 months longer that it stayed hibernating than if you didn’t get transplant upfront. So, that’s the trial, that’s what it was looking at, and that’s all they could really say about it. The good news is, even patients who didn’t get transplant upfront but then got transplant in second remission tended to have a really good, long progression-free survival or hibernation in that second remission.

So, it still tells us that right now, a transplant is still important for the majority of our myeloma patients. And basically, that’s sort of what that trial showed.

Now, the difference is we do different types of upfront therapies and we have new things like CAR T and bispecifics that are coming up earlier. So, we’ll see in the future if it still holds up. But as of right now, it still holds up for transplant. The other big studies, of course, were some of our bispecific studies that use different antigens. So, antigens are the flags that are on the myeloma that we make these receptors for CAR T, so they can find the myeloma, or bispecifics go after that.

And basically, there are other antigens. BCMA, B-cell maturation antigen, is the big one that we use for everything right now. But now, we found even more antigens, which is fantastic.

So, we have something called FcHR5. We have something called GPRC5D. It’s like alphabet number soup, basically. But what’s really exciting is that these new antigens give us a different way of getting to that myeloma, especially if someone has already had a BCMA therapy and they’ve relapsed on that. Well, now we have even new ways to get to that myeloma cell. So, I think that’s some really, really exciting data.

And then, I’ll say the other big one was one of the CAR Ts, Cilta-Cel was something that they presented.

Again, this was two years after the last patient had gotten treated on the trial. And so far, they still have about 71 percent of patients that are still in remission two years after. So, that is huge.

Katherine:                  

Wow.

Dr. Patel:  

We’ve never seen that in relapsed refractory patients before, so we’re really, really excited to kind of have gotten that data to say, “Okay, we found a brand-new way of treating myeloma.” And it really is changing how we’re looking at even earlier lines of therapy now.

Katherine:   

Such promising news. That’s great.

What Is Myeloma CAR T-Cell Therapy?

What Is Myeloma CAR T-Cell Therapy? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How does CAR (chimeric antigen receptor) T-cell therapy work to fight myeloma? Dr. Krina Patel, a myeloma specialist and researcher, explains how this novel therapy uses your immune system to treat the disease.

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma. Learn more about Dr. Patel, here.

Related Resources:

How Does Immunotherapy Treat Myeloma?

Immunotherapy: Which Myeloma Patients Is It Right For?

Myeloma Treatment & Research Updates From 2022 ASCO and EHA Meetings

Transcript:

Katherine:   

What is CAR T-cell therapy?

Dr. Patel:    

So, CAR-T cells are sort of a biologic immune therapy where we are able to take T cells, a type of lymphocyte which help us, normally. All of us have them in our blood.

They come from our bone marrow, go into our blood, and they sort of go around in the blood and look for bad things, pathogens. So, infections, even cancer cells, our T cells help get rid of all of those bad things that we’re not supposed to have. And they each have a receptor. And so, T cells have this night vision, and they’re made for a specific type of pathogen out there that we aren’t supposed to have that can hurt us.

And so, what we can is to either take your own T cells out, or sometimes with something called allo CAR-T use a normal donor’s T cells. And when we take them, we basically can put a new receptor in there, a new night vision; and so, now they are trained to go after something that’s specific on the myeloma instead of a bacteria or a virus or anything. And basically, we grow those cells, and then we give those cells back to our patient after a low dose of chemotherapy, just so these T cells can go in, find the myeloma, use that night vision to find that myeloma wherever it is, kill, and then it actually causes other immune cells in your system to come there and start helping to kill as well.

And then, they start coming back down again. And so, really, it’s a novel way of using your own immune system, or somebody else’s, but to actually enhance both by the target to get that myeloma precisely as well as making more of them so that there’s enough to go around and kill all the cells that we possibly can.

Relapsed and Refractory Myeloma Defined

Relapsed and Refractory Myeloma Defined from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Myeloma expert Dr. Krina Patel reviews the difference between relapsed and refractory myeloma and how these distinctions may impact care and treatment.

Dr. Krina Patel is an Associate Professor in the Department of Lymphoma/Myeloma at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. Dr. Patel is involved in research and cares for patients with multiple myeloma. Learn more about Dr. Patel, here.

Related Resources:

Expert Advice for Newly Diagnosed Myeloma Patients

The Role of a Myeloma Specialist on Your Care Team

Myeloma Induction and Consolidation Therapy Defined

Transcript:

Katherine:  

Dr. Patel, could you define what relapsed myeloma is?

Dr. Patel:     

Yes, so as of today, for the majority of our patients we can’t cure myeloma to the point where we treat it, and it’s gone forever, right? I’m hoping one day we get there. And we’re getting better, but we’re not there yet. However, myeloma’s very, very treatable. So, what relapsed means is that, once you’ve had initial therapy after you’ve been diagnosed, our goal is to get that myeloma to as low as possible level so that it hibernates as long as possible. But eventually, that myeloma’s going to start waking back up. So, when it does, that’s called a relapse. That now, the proteins are coming up, the myeloma cells are growing and we need to do something to knock it back down again. So, that’s relapsed disease.

Katherine:

How is that different from refractory myeloma?

Dr. Patel:

That’s a great question. We talk about relapsed refractory all the time for myeloma. So, refractory actually means that your myeloma started waking up while on a certain medication. So, if you were on no medicines and then your myeloma came up, that’s considered relapsed. That’s not refractory. However, biggest example I can give you is when patients are on maintenance therapy after stem cell transplant, for instance. When they’re all on maintenance and their myeloma starts coming up while on maintenance, then they are considered refractory to that drug; so, if it’s lenalidomide (Revlimid), if it’s bortezomib (Velcade), whichever one it is.

So, any time the myeloma’s coming up while on active treatment, you become refractory. So, we talk about triple refractory or penta-refractory, and what that really means is how many drugs is your myeloma refractory to.

So, if you’re refractory to a proteasome inhibitor plus an immunomodulatory drug plus a CD38 antibody, right – I can give you examples of all of those, but basically different categories –then you’re considered triple refractory. And the more refractory it is, the harder it is to treat and the more novel therapies we need.

Katherine:

So, if a patient is taking three or four different drugs, how can you pin it down to know which drug or all of them are causing the refractory myeloma?

Dr. Patel:

So, it would be all of them. Let’s say, salvage therapy. You’re on three different medications or four different medications, usually three. We would say, if the myeloma’s coming up while you’re on all of them, you’re technically refractory to now all those medications.

Katherine:

All of those. Okay, all right.

Thriving With Myeloma: What You Should Know About Care and Treatment

Thriving with Myeloma: What You Should Know About Care and Treatment from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What does it mean to thrive with myeloma? Myeloma specialist and researcher, Dr. Joshua Richter discusses the goals of myeloma care, reviews treatment options –including research updates – and shares tools for taking an active role in decisions.

Dr. Joshua Richter is director of Multiple Myeloma at the Blavatnik Family – Chelsea Medical Center at Mount Sinai. He also serves as Assistant Professor of Medicine in The Tisch Cancer Institute, Division of Hematology and Medical Oncology. Learn more about Dr. Richter, here.

Download Guide

See More from Thrive Myeloma


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The Latest in Myeloma Research: Updates from ASH 2021

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Updates in CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma from ASH 2021

Updates in CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma from ASH 2021


Transcript:

Katherine:

Hello, and welcome. I’m Katherine Banwell, your host for today’s program. Today’s webinar is about how to live and thrive with myeloma. We’re going to discuss myeloma treatment goals and how you can play an active role in your care. Before we meet our guest, let’s review a few important details. Before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Let’s meet our guest today. Joining me is Dr. Joshua Richter. Dr. Richter, welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?

Dr. Richter:

Hi. Thank you for having me today. My name is Joshua Richter.

I’m an associate professor of medicine at the Tisch Cancer Institute Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai and the director of myeloma at the Blavatnik Family Chelsea Medical Center of Mount Sinai.

Katherine:

Great. Thank you for taking the time to join us today. There were two major cancer meetings recently, ASCO and EHA. Are there research updates from those meetings that myeloma patients should know about?

Dr. Richter:

Absolutely. These are some of the biggest meetings that we have every year that attract all types of people, patients, caregivers, physicians, nurses, Pharma, even investors from all over the world. We’re coming off of the back-to-back American Society of Clinical Oncology and European Hematology Association meetings, and there were a couple of really important updates and data. One of them at ASCO actually had what we call a plenary session.

A plenary is the top type of session at any one of these congresses, and it was around something called the DETERMINATION trial which looked at something a lot of patients may be familiar with, the notion of getting VRd, Velcade, Revlimid, and dexamethasone, with or without getting a stem cell transplant as part of their initial treatment. Now, many years ago when our initial therapy was not so good, we showed that transplant was better than what was good 30 years ago.

But, we have better treatments now. So, do we still need high-dose chemotherapy and stem cell transplant?

And what was really interesting about this data set is that if you do get a transplant upfront, you do seem to have a longer PFS, progression-free survival, meaning you stay in remission longer if you get your transplant as part of your initial therapy. However, there was no difference in overall survival, meaning how long you actually lived. And this may not make a lot of sense at first, but think about patient one who stays in remission longer, but because now their disease is a little more refractory, the subsequent therapies don’t work as well as compared to the person who doesn’t get the transplant upfront.

And then those latter therapies work a little better, and when you add them all up, they come out about the same. So, I think one of the things that comes out of this is, “Do I need the transplant?” No, you don’t need the transplant as part of your initial therapy.

We’re still trying to figure out who really needs it and who doesn’t, but you can always never do it or save it for a later time. So, that was really one of the big things that came out of the ASCO meeting.

Katherine:

What about EHA?

Dr. Richter:

So, EHA had a lot of updates both in terms of CAR T-cell therapies and bispecific antibodies, and bispecific antibodies are near and dear to my heart. They’re my big passion in myeloma, and I had the honor of presenting updated data on the Regeneron 5458 bispecific antibody at EHA.

This is a BCMA CD3 bispecific. So, many people may be familiar with monoclonal antibodies like daratumumab, which is just an antibody that gets injected and attacks the cancer.

Bispecifics are molecules that are injected that have two arms. One grabs onto the cancer cell; the other grabs onto your own immune cells that we call T cells and activates them to attack the cancer. Very interesting new therapy.

Very exciting, and very high response rates in people who have had tons and tons of treatment. So, in people that have seen almost everything in the highest dosing group of the study, 75 percent of people responded, which is very, very high.

But more notably, the big side effect we look out for called CRS or cytokine release syndrome, that’s where we activate your T cells and they get so activated they can cause other problems. That can be pretty high in some of our immune therapies, but in this drug, there’s only 38 percent, and all of this was relatively minor. It wasn’t the really big stuff.

So, the reason why this is so near and dear to my heart is that some of these therapies like CAR T have to be given in a major center that does transplants.

But bispecific antibodies, if put together the right way, can be given in your local hematologist’s, oncologist’s office. So, a lot of great potential long-term get everybody treated with these drugs. And then, one or two other little things that I thought were really huge, one was the combining of bispecific antibodies. Studies called the TRIM protocols combined two different bispecific antibodies, one called teclistamab, and one called told talquetamab. Each got combined with daratumumab.

So, not only are we already seeing just the bispecific by itself, we’re starting to combine it and seeing unbelievable response rates. That was updated at EHA, which was groundbreaking. And then in CAR Ts, two things really caught my mind. One was the CARTITUDE-2 data basically giving CAR Ts earlier on to patients had a 100 percent response rate. Can’t really do better than 100 percent. So, it’s not just about getting 100 percent of people in remission.

It’s keeping them there and curing them, and it starts by getting 100 percent of people to respond. So, really looking forward to see how this develops.

But one of the other things was another CAR T that’s coming out of China that targets two different things. It targets BCMA and CD19, both of which can be found on myeloma cells, although CD19 is actually on the myeloma stem cell. It’s a little kooky. But one of the big issues with CAR Ts is manufacturing time. Right now, it takes four to eight weeks to make them. But in this construct, they were able to make them, it took them between 22 and 36 hours. So, for many people, they were able to manufacture the CAR Ts, theoretically, for patients within one day.

So, if we can not only get this therapy to work but shrink the manufacturing from a month or two to a day or two, that would make this more accessible to more patients, get them to their treatment on time. So, the sky’s the limit with our immune options right now.

Katherine:

Excellent. Since this webinar is part of Patient Empowerment Network’s Thrive series, I thought we could start by getting your opinion on what you think it means to thrive with myeloma.

Dr. Richter:

Absolutely. And I love that term. I recently chaired a 5K walk for the MMRF, and the word that is thrown around a lot in cancer is “survivorship.” And, I got up there and I said, “That’s not a word I like to use. I like to use the word “thrivorship.” So, I love that you’re using this word because to me, surviving is an important part of dealing with cancer, but it’s the first step. Thriving is the goal. The goal is not to just get through it. It’s to go beyond it. It’s to do everything you want to do in life: personal, family, business, anything you want.

If you want to spend your time fishing, if you want to spend your time skydiving, if you want to spend time with your grandkids, and enjoying that time, and as much as humanly possible, keeping the notion of cancer way out of your brain. To me, that is thriving and not just surviving with a diagnosis like myeloma.

Katherine:

That helps us guide through the conversation as we continue on. Getting the appropriate myeloma care is, of course, part of thriving. So, let’s talk about treatment. How would you define treatment goals?

Dr. Richter:

Sure. So, treatment goals are different for each different individual because unfortunately, myeloma tends to affect people who are older. So, whereas the goals for an 85 or 90-year-old diagnosed with the disease is maybe things like, “I don’t want to suffer. I don’t want to have as many side effects,” but the goal is not to live 40 years, that’s different from a 40-year-old who may say, “I’m willing to tolerate certain side effects because I want to live as far as possible.” So, in reality, there always has to be this huge balance. And as with anything in medicine, an open dialogue with your care team is crucial to understand what your goals are because a lot of us make assumptions on both sides.

The patient may assume that we want certain things out of this. We may assume the patient wants certain goals. Really open, vibrant discussions where there are no taboos, there’s nothing wrong to say. I’ve had patients say, “I don’t care what happens. My granddaughter is getting married next year. I need to be there.

Anything beyond that, I don’t care.” That’s their goal. They’re entitled to their goal. I will work with them within that construct. So, really being open about what the goals are. Right now, what I tell patients is, especially for younger patients who if you’re already 85 or 90, you’re getting closer and closer to how long you’re likely to survive even without myeloma.

It’s kind of hard to have a 90-year-old have a 30-year survival. We’re not living to 120 just yet anyway. But for most of my patients, I say my goal is to either keep you in remission so long that you pass from something else many years from now, or to keep you moving until we have a cure that we can just give you and then make sure that that cure, that you’re able to accept it. That your body’s intact, your bone marrow’s contact, and this is something we can provide for you.

Katherine:

Well, tell me what you think the patient’s role is, then, in setting care goals.

Dr. Richter:

Absolutely. The patient has the most crucial role of course. And, one of the things is honesty and really being to a point of brutal honesty with how they’re doing. I always tell patients, “You don’t get extra points for suffering. It’s not that if you sit there in pain you’re going to do better. Let me know what type of pain you’re having.” And pain doesn’t just mean a bone is hurting, or a muscle’s hurting, we call somatic pain.

There can be neuropathic pain where the nerves hurt.

There can be emotional and spiritual pain. These things all need to be addressed. And if you are suffering in silence, we have a lot of tools nowadays not just medicines. We have people to talk to. We have resources. So, letting us in to help is one of the most crucial things because we’ve actually shown that if you actually improve some of these, you may actually improve overall outcomes. So, the patient, please, all we want to do on the care side of the equation is help.

Let us know what’s bothering you. It may be small to you, it may be big to us, or vice versa, but the more open you are, the better we can help.

Katherine:

Yeah, that’s great advice. Before we move on to discussing how the treatment choice is determined, let’s define a couple of terms that are often mentioned in myeloma care. What does it mean to be refractory and how is that different from relapsing?

Dr. Richter:

Great question. So, these terms have very specific definitions in myeloma. “Relapsing” just means that the disease is coming back. So, you had myeloma that was measurable, you went into a remission, and now it is showing signs that it’s coming back. We call that “relapsing.” And depending upon what type of myeloma, we have specific definitions. So, if you’re IgG kappa and you make an M-spike, if your M-spike goes up at least 0.5 and at least 25 percent, we call that “relapsing.” If you’re a light chain, it’s gotta go up by at least 100. But, you’ve gotta make sure the units are right.

“Refractory” means that you either did not respond or you’re progressing on or within 60 days of your last treatment. So, I put you on Revlimid maintenance, and you’re on Revlimid, and your disease gets worse. You are now relapsed and refractory to Revlimid. If I give you a transplant and then I put you on nothing, and two years later your disease comes back, you’re relapsed but not refractory.

Katherine:

What I would like to look at is because everyone’s different, what’s going to work for one patient might not work for another. So, how do you choose which treatment is right for a patient?

Dr. Richter:

Really great question. So, unfortunately, myeloma, we don’t have the granularity just yet to say exactly what’s going to work for everyone. Our goal is to kind of be what I like to think of as urinary tract infections. You have a UTI, you pee on a dish, we put little discs of antibiotics and a couple of days later, we’re like, “You have an E. coli and Cipro will work.” You get the Cipro and it goes way. We don’t really have that outside of a few drugs. We do know that the drug venetoclax works really well in people who have a very specific type of translocation in their myeloma cells, something we call translocation (11;14).

But for the most part, we don’t know, and we have lots of options and we decide what drugs to use based on three factors: disease-related factors, treatment-related factors, patient-related factors. So, patient-related factors. Are you older or younger? Fit or frail? Do you have comorbidities? If you have a lot of neuropathy from diabetes, I don’t want to give you a drug that’s going to cause more neuropathy. If you have a lot of cardiac issues, I’m not going to give you a cardiac drug. Disease-related factors. Is your disease growing fast or slow? Can I give you some pills or do I need to give you intravenous immediately to stop it? Is it pressing on a nerve? Do I need to add radiation?

So, those are some of the big factors. And then, treatment related factors. Have you had certain other drugs? So, if you’re refractory to Revlimid, I may not want to give you Revlimid again. If you have a lot of side effects or didn’t respond well to Revlimid, I may not want to use another drug similar to Revlimid like Pomalyst.

I may want to choose another class. So, that’s kind of putting all of that together to come up with a treatment choice because there’s no clear guideline.

Katherine:

Right. Can you help us understand some of the common issues that myeloma patients experience and how they might be managed?

Dr. Richter:

Sure. So, fatigue is an absolutely huge one. And fatigue can come from a lot of different things. One, fatigue can come from other medicines. A lot of patients have cardiac issues and may be on other medicines causing fatigue. So, optimizing your other clinical status is important. Anemia can lead to fatigue, so we monitor your blood counts very closely, and if they drop, can we provide medicines to boost them up? Drugs. Some of the therapies we have can cause fatigue, and one of the biggest ones is Revlimid.

And, I tell people what actually tends to help is you take the Revlimid at night instead of the morning because if you take it at night, it tends to maximize the fatigue while you’re already sleeping. If you take it in the morning, it tends to maximize at that horrible, coffee-needing hour of 3:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., or 4:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. where you’re like, “Oh, I’ve gotta lie down.” So, fatigue is a really big one. Neuropathy. Neuropathy is really getting less and less in our new patients because more of our modern drugs don’t cause it, but unfortunately, some patients still have neuropathy and they may be using drugs like gabapentin or Lyrica.

There’s some other really old drugs and new drugs that can help. Drugs like Pamelor, which is nortriptyline, or Cymbalta may help quite a bit, or another drug called Effexor. And, many of these drugs may be used for

anxiety and depression, but also work for neuropathy. And then, even going to things like the cannabinoids; things like marijuana derivatives may actually be able to help both in salves or even edibles may actually help some of the neuropathy issues. And then, we get into some kind of out there stuff like compounding ketamine to help with some of these salves or oral combinations. So again, a little bit of neuropathy, let us know because there may be some ways to help.

Katherine:

Are kidneys impacted by any of the medications that patients take?

Dr. Richter:

So, kidneys are an excruciatingly important part of myeloma, and d in my mind, one of the keys to long-term survival and outcome. So, there are three things that I tell all of my patients to help preserve long-term kidney health. Two of them are easy to wrap the head around. One is a little bit harder. Number one, keep yourself well hydrated. The kidneys are like a filter. Think, like, the filter for your car. If you drove 100,000 miles in the desert and didn’t change your oil, there’d be problems. So, especially now that there’s warmer weather, by the time you already feel yourself dehydrated, you’re about 10 to 15 percent low on the total amount of body water you need.

So, especially if you’re going out there doing yard work, playing with the kids or grandkids, make sure you’re drinking plenty of water. Two, avoid NSAIDs. Drugs like Aleve, or naproxen, or Advil, or ibuprofen can be harmful to the kidneys. So again, please discuss with your care team. There may be better alternatives to treat your pain without hurting the kidneys. And the third is when all else possible, and avoid intravenous contrasts for CAT scans. Now, the IV contrast you get for MRIs is called gadolinium. It’s not harmful to the kidneys. But, the contrast for CAT scans is iodine-based, and although the newer formulations are better, it can still hurt the kidneys.

So, my advice is the following. If you’re in the ER at 2:00 a.m. in the morning and they want to do an urgent CAT scan with IV contrast, let them do it. It’s likely not going to be an issue. If you go to see an orthopedist and they say, “I want to get a better look at that leg that’s bothering you. I’m going to get a CAT scan with IV contrast,” tell them to call me. We’ll find an alternative.

Katherine:

Okay. All right. Good advice. Thank you. So, once treatment has begun, how do you know if it’s working?

Dr. Richter:

Absolutely. So, the majority of myeloma patients are what we call “secretory.” And by “secretory,” it means that the cancer cells secrete a protein that we can measure in the blood either an M-spike, which is an intact immunoglobulin like IgG and kappa, or a free light chain. It doesn’t make that IgG part, just a free kappa or free lambda. And basically, when these protein levels go up, we know the cancer cells are growing. When these go down, we know we’re killing the cancer cells. And we actually call your remission based on how much we lower it.

If we lower it 25 to 49 percent, that’s an MR or minor response, or minor remission. 50 to 89 percent is a PR, partial response, partial remission. 90 to 99 percent is a VGPR, a very good partial remission, and then all gone in the blood and then we do a bone marrow is a CR or complete remission.

For some people, their disease can be non-secretory where the cancer cells don’t make that protein anymore.

And for those people, we need to do regular imaging to see if they have growths of myeloma we call plasmacytomas, or unfortunately, we need to do regular bone marrow biopsies to see how much of the bad cells are growing inside the marrow.

Katherine:

All right. How do you know when it’s time to switch treatment?

Dr. Richter:

So, in general, when patients fulfill the criteria for what we call “progressive disease” or PD, that’s the time to change, or intolerance that regardless of how we dose adjust, dose hold or add supportive care, it’s not tolerable for a patient to continue.

Intolerance is a very personal thing. There are things that certain people are willing to tolerate and others not. So, we try to adjust that. Just like we have criteria for response, PR, VGPR, we have criteria for progression. And in general, it’s a 25 percent increase from your baseline and 0.5 increase in your M-spike or 100 increase in your light chains. So, when the disease numbers are going up, we tend to switch.

Now, people may say, “But I feel fine,” and a lot of this is because you’re diagnosed with an amount of disease up here. We get you in remission, you’re down here. And once you go like this, we can see the writing on the wall and we’d rather be proactive than reactive. So, instead of waiting until the numbers get up here to cause trouble, once it goes from there to there, we intervene, change therapy to bring it back down.

Katherine:

Dr. Richter, why is it essential for patients to share any issues they may be having with their healthcare team?

Dr. Richter:

It is absolutely crucial because some things that may be very, very minor to them may be the tip of the iceberg of something very, very worrisome that we really need to investigate because sometimes, little problems are little now, and over time, they can become problems that we can’t so easily reverse. So, things like neuropathy, fatigue, or actually better yet, what I tell my patients is, “You know your body. If there is something out of the ordinary, big or small, let us know.”

And I would way rather a patient tell me 10 things in a row that mean nothing than not tell me about that one thing that means something.

So, for example, one of the disorders that’s associated with myeloma is called amyloidosis.

And when amyloid attacks the kidneys, you start to have protein in the urine, and this looks like bubbles, like foam in the urine. So, if someone has no foam when they urinate, and then over a period of months to years, they’re starting to notice lots of foam, tell me because that means we may need to look for things like amyloid. So, really any time something changes.

Katherine:

Anything. Yeah. I want to make sure that we get to some of the audience questions. So, let’s start with this one. PEN community member Sal sent in this question prior to the program. “What is the difference between myeloma and multiple myeloma?”

Dr. Richter:

A really great question. For the most part, the terms are synonymous. We abbreviate multiple myeloma as myeloma. But along those lines, and I literally saw a patient today who said, “Why is it called multiple myeloma?” Well, when you have a group of bad plasma cells that forms a tumor, we call that a plasmacytoma, “cytoma” meaning “bad cells,” and “plasma” because they’re plasma cells. And when you have one of them, it is a solitary plasmacytoma. Once you have two of them, it’s multiple myeloma because it’s in multiple spots in the marrow or multiple spots in the body. So, for our purposes, we use them interchangeably, but that’s where the “multiple” comes from.

Katherine:

Okay. Isaac sent us this question. How long does the average myeloma patient remain on Revlimid? And, is there a suggested time period?

Dr. Richter:

Really great question. It depends upon the setting we’re looking at, and for the most part, a lot of people are probably asking about the maintenance setting. So, after initial therapy or after transplant, we put you on Revlimid. How long do we keep you on? The American adage has always been, “More is better,” so as long as you tolerate it and as long as it works. Outside of the U.S., they’ve done a couple of studies looking at one year and then stopping, or two years and then stopping.

And in a big trial that got presented a year or so ago, they compared the two years then stopping versus just staying on, and the people who just stay on do better.

So, now the current thinking is just keep you on long-term. What’s going to change that in the long term is we’re starting to use a technology called MRD, minimal residual disease, so, doing a marrow and trying to find one in a million or one in 10 million cancer cells.

And then, there’s something called sustained MRD meaning if you do two MRD analyses at least 12 months apart and they’re both negative, we call that sustained MRD negative.

And, there’s a hint that some people on maintenance Revlimid who have sustained their MRD negativity, they may do just as well stopping versus staying on it. We don’t know exactly who that is yet, but that’s going to be better understood in the next few years.

Katherine:

Okay. Randall writes, “I was diagnosed last year with myeloma, and my first treatment worked, but now I’ve relapsed. Is it too late to consider a second opinion or a consult with a specialist? Would that change anything?

Dr. Richter:

It’s a phenomenal question. There have actually been studies to show that if you engage with a myeloma center at least once within your myeloma journey, you do better than someone who has never done that. So, it is never a bad time to seek out a specialist. And one of the good things that came out of COVID is telemedicine. So, if there’s not someone right in your area, reaching out to some of our advocacy groups to help connect you to physicians like me or any of my colleagues, we’re more than happy to see anyone, I’ll see you with an MGUS that’ll never bother you, as will all of my colleagues and people who work in myeloma.

If you’ve had one prior line, 15 prior lines, anywhere in between. So, I think it’s always a good idea to see a specialist because he or she is more than happy to work with your local doctor to optimize your treatment without having to necessarily go to another center.

Katherine:

Yeah. Well, thank you for all of that, Dr. Richter. And, please continue to send in your questions to question@powerfulpatients.org and we’ll work to get them answered on future programs. So, Dr. Richter, we’ve talked a lot about why patients should play a role in their care.

What advice do you have for patients to help them feel confident in speaking up and becoming a partner in their care?

Dr. Richter: So, that’s not always easy for a lot of people to do, and for some people, no problem. They’ll speak up at the first sign of anything. One bit of advice I would give to people who may have concerns or may not feel as comfortable about doing this is first of all, there’s a lot of members of the care team. So, I have patients that may not want to mention it to me, but mention it to my nurse or the medical assistant, and we all talk. So, that’s one way.

The other thing that I think may help is involvement in patient support groups, hearing what others have to say about similar experiences and learning from them, them learning from you, and that may actually give you more of a confidence to speak with your care team. But, the advocacy groups like the MMRF and IMF have tons of local support groups where you can sit in, and specialists come and speak or people share stories. And I think that can be really helpful to figuring out your optimal journey.

Katherine:

And knowing that you’re not alone –

Dr. Richter:

Absolutely.

Katherine:

– in how you’re feeling. As we close out this conversation, I wanted to get your take on the future of myeloma. What makes you hopeful?

Dr. Richter:

So, we’ve had what we call Gestalt switches in myeloma. And what I mean by that is let’s rewind decades ago. We gave chemotherapy. Chemotherapy was designed to kill any cell that divides rapidly because that’s what cancer cells like to do.

It kills the good and the bad. It makes your hair fall out, throw up, horrible stuff. It doesn’t work too well. Then about 20 years ago, we started this switch to the novel therapies, Revlimid, thalidomide, Velcade, and then a decade later, daratumumab. And now, we’re having targeted agents which spend more time targeting the bad stuff, less time doing off-target stuff, really ramping things up.

We are at the precipice of a brand-new Gestalt switch in myeloma.

The immune world. The immune therapies. And right now, T-cell redirection therapy is what we call it either with CAR Ts, where we take your T cells out, engineer them, and put them back into your body all revved up, or we give you an off-the-shelf, bispecific that grabs onto your cancer and your T cell and, brace yourself, we even have trispecifics, which can engage your myeloma, another cell in your body, and yet another cell.

If you go on clinicaltrials.gov, which lists all the trials for everything, every disease, there are over 3,000 active trials in myeloma.

And what I tell people is when I first started and I sat across from a patient, I would say, “I’m really sorry. It’s not curable.” And now I say, “We are curing some people today by accident.” But over the next period of time, we’re going to do this deliberately and more frequently. And the goal is and always has been 100 percent of cure for 100 percent of patients, 100 percent of the time.

And, I kind of feel right now we’re almost like that 2001: A Space Odyssey when the obelisk lands. We have these immune therapies. We know they’re great. How do we combine them? How do we use them? How do we take all these great tools and turn it into a cure for everyone?”

And with so many great partners between advocacy groups and Pharma and patients and cancer centers, we’re going to collaborate and we’re going to start getting those answers in my lifetime, and I could not be more excited about that.

Katherine:

Oh, I bet. I bet. It seems like there’s been so much progress and hope in the field. Dr. Richter, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s been a pleasure.

Dr. Richter:

Thank you so much for having me. I’d love to come back anytime.

Katherine:

And thank you to all of our partners. To learn more about myeloma and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for joining us.

Updates in CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma From ASH 2021

Updates in CAR T-Cell Therapy for Myeloma from ASH 2021 from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Myeloma specialist, Dr. Omar Nadeem, shares the latest updates in CAR T-cell therapy from the 2021 American Society of Hematology (ASH) annual meeting. Dr. Nadeem discusses long-term study results and optimism for the future of CAR T-cell therapy.

Dr. Omar Nadeem is the Clinical Director of Myeloma Cellular Therapies Program and Director of Myeloma and Plasma Cell Pathways at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. Learn more about Dr. Nadeem, here.

See More from Thrive Myeloma


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The Latest in Myeloma Research: Updates from ASH 2021

The Latest in Myeloma Research: Updates from ASH 2021

How Could Clinical Trials Fit Into Your Myeloma Treatment Plan?

How Could Clinical Trials Fit Into Your Myeloma Treatment Plan?

An Expert’s Hopeful Outlook on Myeloma Research and Treatment

An Expert’s Hopeful Outlook on Myeloma Research and Treatment 


Transcript:

Dr. Nadeem:

My name is Omar Nadeem, and I’m at the Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, Massachusetts. I’m an instructor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, and I direct the myeloma cellular therapies program at Dana Farber.

Katherine:

Dr. Nadeem, you’ve joined us from the American Society of Hematology Meeting in Atlanta. Can you share any highlights in myeloma from the meeting?

Dr. Nadeem:

Yeah, it’s a very exciting time in myeloma therapeutics. We’re seeing a lot of new agents that are being reported at this meeting, showing very promising results.

Then we’re also fine tuning the way we treat myeloma patients by looking at different combinations in all lines of therapy, whether it be front-line or relapsed setting, to try to really understand which treatments are the best and then also more importantly, which treatments do we need to continue patients on, etcetera as they’re going through their myeloma journey. So, lots of updates with important trials at this meeting so far.

Katherine:

We’re hearing a lot about the promise of CAR T-cell therapy. Is there any research news in CAR T-cell for myeloma treatment?

Dr. Nadeem:

Yeah. So, we’ll have a presentation later today, actually, updated results of the CARTITUDE-1 study, which is looking at cilta-cel, which is an anti-BCMA directed CAR-T cell product.

And this trial is a phase-1/2 study looking at some patients with relapse in refractory multiple myeloma that has been reported previously to have a very, very high response rate and very high rates of MRD negativity.

So at this meeting, with just longer follow-up, which is what we’re looking for in terms of how long these responses last, we’re starting to see that the median duration of response is now almost 22 months, which is very impressive looking at the data and comparing it to some of the other CAR-T products that are either under study or the one that’s currently approved.

So, that looks very promising. And also notably, we had some concerns initially about toxicity with this particular product. But that really hasn’t been seen with longer follow-up. So, we’re not seeing a toxicity signal, particularly as it relates to neurological toxicity, with the longer follow-up. So, that presentation will be later today. We look forward to seeing the updates, but so far this looks very encouraging and this is what we anticipate to be the next product that’s available in the market for myeloma.

How Is Myeloma Treatment Effectiveness Monitored?

How Is Myeloma Treatment Effectiveness Monitored? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Once you begin myeloma therapy, how do you know if it’s working? Dr. Saad Usmani, a myeloma expert, shares how patients are monitored via various tests and reviews how minimal residual disease (MRD) testing plays a role in myeloma care.

Dr. Saad Usmani is the Chief of Myeloma Service at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York City. Learn more about Dr. Usmani, here.

See More From INSIST! Myeloma


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Which Tests Are Essential to Diagnose and Treat Myeloma?

Which Tests Are Essential to Diagnose and Treat Myeloma?

How Are Cytogenetics Used in Myeloma Care_

How Are Cytogenetics Used in Myeloma Care?

Questions to Ask Your Doctor About Essential Myeloma Testing

Questions to Ask Your Doctor About Essential Myeloma Testing


Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Once a patient begins therapy, how do you monitor whether a treatment is working?

Dr. Usmani:

So, as part of the diagnostic work-up, we typically have identified in the blood using serum protein electrophoresis and serum free light chains. What kind of myeloma proteins these – that particular patient’s myeloma cells are making. And we can monitor them every cycle of treatment. So, every three or four weeks.

And that’s the most noninvasive way of seeing if the treatment is working. The second obviously important thing is if someone has symptoms. If they have kidney damage, if they have bone pain, all of those things start improving as you’re getting treatment. And then in some patients, we’re also looking at imaging like PET CT scans at certain time points. And at some point, we do also look at the bone marrow biopsies to see what’s really going on in the factory.

Katherine Banwell:

We often hear the term MRD, or minimal residual disease used in the myeloma space. So, what is it exactly and how is it used in patient care?

Dr. Usmani:

So, minimal residual disease is a way to measure how much myeloma is left over in a given patient.

And historically, we were simply looking at the serum proteins and the light chain levels along with just the morphology of the bone marrow to see if – kind of determine a response. But we can have a much deeper assessment of how many cancer cells as a leftover from a bone marrow biopsy by different measurements. Someone can be in a complete response with M-Spike is gone. The light chains have normalized.

Yet they can still have 10,000 – 100,000 myeloma cells still in the bone marrow. And just using the bone marrow biopsy the way that we used to, we won’t be able to see them. We’ll just see, “Oh, these look like normal plasma cells.” So, using next-generation sequencing and flow cytometry, we can look at normal myeloma cells at a very deep level – one out of one million.

But these tests are highly specialized. And especially the flow cytometry requires a lot of expertise. The NGS requires good sampling at the time of diagnosis as well as subsequent specimen 

What Should You Ask Your Doctor About Myeloma Testing?

What Should You Ask Your Doctor About Myeloma Testing? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Testing and test results may affect your myeloma care and treatment. Dr. Nina Shah, a myeloma expert, shares key questions to ask your doctor about testing and reviews testing techniques for myeloma. 

Dr. Nina Shah is Associate Professor of Medicine in the Fepartment of Medicine at the University of California San Francisco (UCSF) and treats patients at the Hematology and Blood and Marrow Transplant Clinic at UCSF Helen Diller Family Comprehensive Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Shah, here.

See More From INSIST! Myeloma


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What Key Steps Should Follow a Myeloma Diagnosis

What Key Steps Should Follow a Myeloma Diagnosis?

How Does Myeloma Testing Affect Care and Treatment

How Does Myeloma Testing Affect Care and Treatment? 

What Standard Testing Follows a Myeloma Diagnosis_ (1)

What Standard Testing Follows a Myeloma Diagnosis?


Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

If a patient wants testing beyond the standard, what should they be asking their doctors for?

Dr. Shah:

Well, thankfully a lot of these tests can be done as a standard. We actually have some approved testing for it. So, the most important thing is to ask the doctor at all. For example, the patient may ask, 1.) “When will my next bone marrow biopsy be?” and 2.) “When I get that bone marrow biopsy, will you be looking at cytogenetics and FISH?” and 3.) “When you get the bone marrow biopsy, will you be also looking for minimal residual disease?” And finally, “What technique will you use to look for that minimal residual disease?” There are different ones that the patients might find useful to know about.

Katherine Banwell:

What are some of the different techniques?

Dr. Shah:

There are a variety of ways that we can look for minimal residual disease. One of them is called flow cytometry. What that is is you send all the cells that are in the bone marrow through a chute, and in that chute you can sort of detect one or however many cells that are – that have a specific characteristic on their cell surface.

You think of it as a bunch of balls with lollipops sticking out of it. And based on the characteristics of those lollipops, you can tell if there are any plasma cells or myeloma cells. Another thing we do with minimal residual disease, another technique, is called the next-gen sequencing or NGS.

And for that, we need to know the specific DNA sequence that is very personal to your myeloma cells. So, your particular plasma cell or the cancer cell will have a sort of sequence, a specific sequence that can be identified when you’re first diagnosed. And if you have access to that tissue, that can be sent off to the company, and they use that as sort of a template or a measure – an individual identification. And then, they scan the subsequent bone marrow samples against that to see if there’s any sequence that matches that original one, and that’s the way you can detect one in a million positive cells, if there are any. 

How Is Minimal Residual Disease (MRD) Testing Used in Myeloma Care?

How Is Minimal Residual Disease (MRD) Testing Used in Myeloma Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Myeloma expert Dr. Nina Shah explains minimal residual disease (MRD) and how the results of this test may impact patient care and treatment.

Dr. Nina Shah is Associate Professor of Medicine in the Fepartment of Medicine at the University of California San Francisco (UCSF) and treats patients at the Hematology and Blood and Marrow Transplant Clinic at UCSF Helen Diller Family Comprehensive Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Shah, here.

See More From INSIST! Myeloma


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Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

What is minimal residual disease testing, and when should it take place?

Dr. Shah:

Minimal residual disease is exactly what it sounds like. It’s the disease that you can’t see under the microscope, but it’s still there.

And I sort of equate it to the little deep food particles that are in a pot after you clean it and really, really scrub it, but still, something is in there. And that’s what it is for myeloma. And really, that depends on how sensitive your test is. We now know we can test for at least one in a million cells by some advanced techniques, and we like to test to see if there’s any disease left after certain treatments are done – for example, after a patient undergoes an autologous stem cell transplant.

Katherine Banwell:

What impact do results have on care decisions?

Dr. Shah:

Minimal residual disease testing can be useful for patients to understand the true burden of their disease. For example, it may be that there’s no more M-protein in the blood, or the light chains are normal, or even the bone marrow showed no plasma cells. But the minimal residual disease testing may show that, in fact, there are a few cells still in there, and that can help patients to decide, “Yes, I want proceed with maintenance therapy,” for example, or “No, I would not like to.” Although, we generally recommend it, patients like to have as much information as possible to make their decisions. 

AML Research Updates: News from ASH 2020

AML Research Updates: News from ASH 2020 from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

AML expert Dr. Jeffrey Lancet shares the latest news from the 2020 American Society of Hematology (ASH) annual meeting. Dr. Lancet sheds light on headlines from the meeting including FLT3 inhibitor research, combination therapies with venetoclax, a promising inhibitor therapy, and shares his optimism about the future of AML treatment.

Dr. Jeffrey Lancet is Chair and Program Lead in the Department of Malignant Hematology at Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa, FL. He is nationally and internationally recognized for his clinical research in the field of acute leukemias. Learn more about Dr. Lancet, here.

Download Program Resource Guide

See More From INSIST! AML

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Transcript:

Katherine:      

Hello, and welcome. I’m Katherine Banwell. Today we’ll discuss the latest news from ASH 2020 and how AML patients can advocate for personalized care. Joining me is Dr. Jeffrey Lancet. Welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?

Dr. Lancet:                   

Hi, sure. My name is Dr. Jeff Lancet. I’m at the Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa, Florida, where I am the Chair of the Malignant Hematology Department. We spend a lot of time treating patients and conducting clinical trials of Acute Myelogenous Leukemia.

Katherine:                   

Okay. Thank you. Dr. Lancet, the American Society of Hematology Annual Meeting just closed. What are the AML headlines from this year’s meeting?

Dr. Lancet:                   

Yeah, so as usual, AML was a very busy area for clinical presentations this year at the ASH meeting focusing largely on novel and targeted therapies.

I don’t believe that there were many practice changing developments per se, but rather discussions about many promising therapeutic strategies that are still under development and moving forward rapidly largely in the areas of targeted therapy, low intensity therapy, measurable residual disease and things of that nature.

Katherine:                   

What does this research news mean for patients?

Dr. Lancet:                   

Well, I think that there’s a lot to be encouraged about and maybe I’ll take the time to review some of the highlights in what was presented with respect to some of the novel therapeutic approaches that many of our patients can look forward to receiving in the not too distant future.

So, we often talk about you know, targeted therapies and, of course, one of the major targets over the years has been that of mutated FLT3 which is one of the most common mutations in AML.

And at this meeting we saw several presentations on clinical trials resolved to utilizing inhibitors of FLT3, with some emphasis on the most recently approved second generation drug called gilteritinib.

There were I thought three major presentations focusing on gilteritinib and one was an update on a randomized Phase III trial comparing gilteritinib plus azacitidine versus azacitidine alone in newly diagnosed unfit for induction chemotherapy patients with FLT3 mutations, preliminarily showing good tolerability and high composite complete response rates in the combination on.

There was another trial of gilteritinib plus venetoclax in relapsed and refractory FLT3 mutated AML.

And what was interesting was that a very high percentage of patients achieved response with this combination of gilteritinib plus venetoclax, many of whom were heavily pretreated previously and many of whom had also gotten prior FLT3 inhibitor therapy during an early stage of the disease. So, the combination of gilteritinib and venetoclax and this more refractive study, it was encouraging to see these promising responses.

And then we saw some data reporting the effects of gilteritinib in combination with more traditional chemotherapy induction with a couple of studies demonstrating both a high complete response rates as well as high rates of mutation clearance of the FLT3 mutation.

So, those were very encouraging data that were presented with respect to the FLT3 mutated AML population.      

So, another very important drug that reached the marketplace for AML recently is a drug called venetoclax, which is an inhibitor of a protein called BCL2.

And this drug was recently FDA approved for use in combination with low intensity chemotherapy drugs such as azacitidine or decitabine.

And it seems as though the combination of venetoclax plus one of these hypomethylating agent drugs, azacitidine or decitabine has resulted in very, very strong efficacy signals as recently published in a New England Journal of Medicine paper that reported on the results of the Phase III trial of venetoclax plus azacitidine.

So, that has now become standard of care for older less fit adults with newly diagnosed AML; the combination of venetoclax plus a hypomethylating agent such as azacitidine.

And naturally, there’s been interest in really kind of taking it several steps further to advance the role of these combinations and to also look at additional drugs in combination with venetoclax plus hypomethylating agent therapy.

So, we saw some of that at the ASH meeting this year. One approach would be to take venetoclax and then to combine it with more intensive chemotherapy for perhaps more fit patients or younger patients that could undergo a more intensive program.

So, we saw presentations of venetoclax being combined with a drug called CPX-351, which is a novel liposome formulation of two common chemotherapy drugs that had been approved a few years ago for secondary AML. And we also saw a combination strategy with venetoclax, and a regimen known as FLAG-IDA, which is a commonly used induction regimen in acute myeloid leukemia.

And I think it’s important to recognize that although these trials that combine the venetoclax with more intensive chemotherapy showed signs of good efficacy with good response rates, there were definitely signals of increased toxicity, hematologic toxicity primarily, which is not completely unexpected with venetoclax knowing that it can cause significant lowering of white blood cells and platelets and hemoglobin.

And then finally, there is a lot of interest in, you know, doing these types of combinations with venetoclax in different subsets of AML and one subset of AML that has been very important recently is that of the IDH mutated AML population of patients.

IDH is a fairly common mutation that occurs either in the Isoform of IDH1 or IDH2 and there’s about a 15 to 20 percent incidence of IDH mutations in AML.

Now we do have an inhibitor for both of these types of mutations: ivosidenib for IDH1 and enasidenib for IDH2, but there also appears to be a strong role for venetoclax plus azacitidine in IDH mutated AML.

We saw from a series of patients presented by a physician at MD Anderson looking at outcomes with venetoclax plus azacitidine in IDH mutated AML. And the response rates were very high when you give HMA plus venetoclax to these patients with IDH mutated AML.

But I think more importantly was that there were what we call high intro patient response rates when switching between venetoclax and HMA therapy with an IDH inhibitor containing regimen.

In other words, a patient would have a good chance of responding to the initial therapy and then if or when that therapy stops working, having a good effect from a salvage therapy with the other regimen. So, when you see initially azacitidine plus venetoclax and then had a relapse, the IDH inhibitors worked well and vice versa if you had received an IDH inhibitor and then subsequently received HMA-venetoclax at a later time point that also worked well.

So, it’s encouraging to see that you can potentially sequence these drugs and get continued responses along the way and ultimately we think will help a survivor and keep patients in a better state of health even longer.               

So, I just wanted to take a few minutes also and discuss some of the newer more novel therapies that are really hitting or approaching the landscape right now. One of these is called CC486, also known as oral azacitidine or ONUREG. And this drug was shown in recent literature to prolong overall survival in patients who are in first remission from their AML who had received induction chemotherapy.

So, this drug was used as maintenance therapy after a variable number of consolidation regimens. And people who got this ONUREG or oral azacitidine drug as maintenance therapy, it resulted in longer survival compared to those who had received placebo.

And this was presented at last year’s ASH meeting, but this year’s ASH meeting provided an update, a very important update, showing that the overall survival advantage from this drug, this oral azacitidine drug, when used as maintenance was independent of whether a patient had measurable residual disease at the time that they went onto the maintenance therapy.

In other words, whether you had MRD, measurable residual disease or not at the time of the study entry, your responses were still more favorable, your outcomes were more favorable, if you received this oral azacitidine drug.

So, this was FDA approved earlier this year for patients in the maintenance phase of therapy for AML who had gotten prior reduction chemotherapy.

And importantly, this drug was also shown to be able to convert about 25% of patients who were positive for measurable residual disease; convert them from positive to negative. So, even though they were in remission, they had measurable residual disease and this drug in about 25 percent of the cases converted that from positive to negative. So, that’s a very important finding as well.

Another important drug that I think you should keep your eye on is a drug called magrolimab. This is an antibody against a certain type of protein that is present on the immune system cell called the macrophage, and when this magrolimab drug was combined with azacitidine in a recent clinical trial, it was demonstrated very high response rates of over 65 percent.

And, in particular, in patients with P53 mutations, which is a very bad mutation to have in most cancers, including AML, in patients with this high-risk mutation, the combination of magrolimab with azacitidine appears to be effective based upon the early data that we have with high response rates.

And then finally, I just wanted to make mention of another important area in, not really just AML, but in all cancer and that’s  outcomes disparities between different races and ethnic groups. And we saw a very important presentation at the plenary session this year where the authors reported outcomes amongst younger patients with AML who were African American compared with Caucasian.

And the data clearly indicated a worse overall survival amongst Black patients compared with white patients under age 60. And this included patients who were enrolled in clinical trials. So, that it appeared that African American patients have a worse outcome than Caucasian patients with acute myeloid leukemia highlighting the need to better understand various risk factors and other factors that play into these disparate outcomes between our Black American population and a white American population, which I think could shed light on additional disease characteristics that may help everybody as well.

 

Fact or Fiction? Myeloma Treatment & Side Effects

Fact or Fiction? Myeloma Treatment & Side Effects from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

When it comes to online myeloma information, how do you separate fact from fiction? Dr. Irene Ghobrial shares facts about current myeloma treatments, common side effects and emerging research. Download the Program Resource Guide, here

Dr. Irene Ghobrial is Director of the Clinical Investigator Research Program at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Dr. Ghobrial specializes in multiple myeloma (MM) and Waldenström macroglobulinemia (WM), focusing on the precursor conditions of monoclonal gammopathy of undetermined significance (MGUS) and smoldering myeloma. More about this expert here.

See More From Fact of Fiction? Myeloma

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Transcript:

Patricia:

Welcome to Fact or Fiction: Multiple Myeloma Treatment and Side Effects. Today, we’ll review common misconceptions about myeloma. I’m Patricia Murphy, your host for today’s program. Joining me is Dr. Irene Ghobrial. Dr. Ghobrial, why don’t you introduce yourself?

Dr. Ghobrial:

My name is Irene Ghobrial. I’m a professor of medicine at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, Harvard Medical School.

Patricia:

Great, thanks so much. Before we get started, just a reminder: This program is not a substitute for medical advice, so please consult your care team before making any treatment decisions. Okay, Dr. Ghobrial, let’s get started.

Let’s talk about some of the things, first, that we hear from patients. You tell me whether or not this is fact or fiction. Here’s one: “There are a number of treatment options for myeloma.”

Dr. Ghobrial:

Fact. It’s amazing because I trained in the old days – and, this shows you how old I am – when we only had bad chemotherapy: Vincristine, Adriamycin, and dex. None of you would even know about it.

Then, we had had high-dose dexamethasone, and that was it, and then we had stem cell transplant, and that’s all we had until suddenly, we had thalidomide, lenalidomide, bortezomib, carfilzomib, ixazomib, and you think about it, we are now in an era where we have 15-20 new drugs, we have another 15-20 coming up, we have an amazing time to completely cure myeloma in the future, and that’s just an exciting time to see that happening in the last 15 years of our lifetime, when patients were living three years, when we had – I remember five percent complete remission rate.

Now, we expect that all of our patients should get into a deep remission into potentially MRD-negative disease, and that’s just the beauty of how myeloma has changed completely.

Patricia:

Well, you’ve already busted our second myth, I guess, that there is no cure for myeloma.

Dr. Ghobrial:

That’s correct. There is no cure for myeloma, but there is a long remission, and the question is if someone lives for 20, 25, 30 years without evidence of myeloma and they die from something else, it’s a step forward. I would love to see us say to a patient, “You are cured,” but until then, we’re getting longer and longer remissions.

Patricia:

How about this one? “Only blood relatives can be donors for bone marrow or stem cell transplant.”

Dr. Ghobrial:

That’s not correct at all. If we think about it, what is stem cell transplant? There are two types. There’s something called autologous stem cell transplant, meaning it’s from myself, so that means that I’m taking my own stem cells, and the whole idea of that autologous transplant is basically high-dose chemotherapy.

So let’s take your own cells before we give you that high-dose melphalan, give the chemo, and then give them back to you, so that you’re not with low blood counts for two weeks, four weeks, you’re only with low blood counts for a couple of weeks. So, that’s autologous transplant; that means I’m giving my own stem cells to myself.

Allogeneic stem cell transplant, which we rarely do now in myeloma, is from another person, and that could be from a relative, but also can be from unrelated donors if they are matching us, but that’s very few cases.

Patricia:

Let’s get an overview of available myeloma treatments.

Dr. Ghobrial:

Oh, boy. Okay, how long do we have here? It depends. The moment I see a patient – and again, maybe we can start with smoldering myeloma because that’s an area I’m really excited about.

If you have asymptomatic disease, it does not mean you have to watch and wait until you fall apart, until you have bone lesions, until you have anemia. We want to see those patients early because we have a lot of clinical trials, and potentially, the cure may actually be in an earlier precursor session when we treat you earlier before you have the disease.

But, the standard of care is when you have symptoms – anemia, hypercalcemia, lytic lesions, and renal failure, or other things like 60% plasma cells – we say you have active multiple myeloma, and in that case, we start saying, “Well, are you a transplant candidate or not?” In the old days, it used to be by age, but now, we say age is just a number, so it really depends on if you have good organ function, are you in an active good state, do you have good lungs, good heart, are you willing to take the transplant, because now, there’s a big discussion whether we should transplant patients or not.

And then, at the end of the day, we’re starting to actually blur that, saying that most of our treatments are almost identical, whether you are old or young, whether you’re a transplant candidate or not. It depends on frailty. Can you tolerate this treatment or not? Maybe a few years ago, we used to say a three-drug regimen is the best way to go.

Now, most of us are starting to say four-drug regimen up front is the way to go, which is an antibody – currently, it’s daratumumab – a proteasome inhibitor – it could be bortezomib or carfilzomib – an immunomodulator – likely, this is lenalidomide – and then, dexamethasone. That’s sort of the option that we have right now, at least in the U.S.

If you go to Europe, you’ll find us using different drugs, like thalidomide or other things, but most of us are thinking of a four-drug regimen to think of our up-front myeloma treatment to get you the best remission, eventually MRD-negative disease, and then we talk about transplant or no transplant, and then, of course, we talk about maintenance.

We want to keep everyone on maintenance therapy; the question is how long, which maintenance, do we use one drug or not? So, there is a lot to be discussed in treatment of myeloma, and that’s the beauty of it. It’s truly an art and science together. It’s not just “Here’s a combination because you have this treatment.” We really personalize therapy for you.

We look at your cytogenetics, your FISH. We say you have high-risk cytogenetics or not, you’re young or not, you have good organ function or not.

There are so many things that we put in consideration when we come up with a treatment plan for a patient.

Patricia:

We’ve been talking a little bit about what patients believe when they come in, some of the things they’re thinking about. What else do you hear from patients that you either have to correct or affirm when they come into your office?

Dr. Ghobrial:

A lot of things. I think the first thing is, of course, they say myeloma is fatal, and they’re so scared, and absolutely, I understand that, but the median survival has become so much better, so much longer. There is a lot of hope, enthusiasm, and excitement right now with the treatments we have. The second thing is most of our treatments are not your typical chemotherapy, so unlike breast cancer or other cancers where you lose your hair, you’re throwing up, you cannot work, you have to take time off, most of our drugs now, people are working full-time, they’re active, you don’t lose your hair, so probably, no one has to know unless you tell them.

And, I think that’s something important for a patient to think about. It’s their own personal life, and not having to interrupt that. I think that’s very unique. So, these are a couple things that, as they come in, that anxiety of “Oh my God, I have cancer,” and then, taking a deep breath and saying, “Now, how do I handle this situation?”

Patricia:

Sure. What about clinical trials? What common misconceptions do you hear from patients enrolling in trials?

Dr. Ghobrial:

There’s a lot of misconceptions, and it’s unfortunate. I would say I would absolutely go on a trial if I can. I’m a believer in clinical trials because they’re the way forward to bring in new therapies and new options. I think a lot of people think that we’re experimenting on them when we’re doing clinical trials, meaning that it’s first in human, meaning it’s the first time we try this drug, and I would say that most of our clinical trials are not first in human.

They’re not the very first time we’ve tried them. Likely, those are drugs we’ve tried, we know the side effects, we know the toxicity, but it’s the first time we’ve put it in a different combination or it’s the first time we’ve put it in a specific subset of patients to look at response or at overall survival.

Most of the trials – so, before you decide “Oh, it’s a trial,” just think – is this a phase 1, a phase 2, or a phase 3? Phase 1 are usually that first time that we try in a population. Phase 2 are usually we know already what happens, we know the toxicity, we’re bringing it to look at the response rate in general or the survival, and then, phase 3s are the bigger studies, going to the FDA for approval.

The second thing is you want to think about is there a placebo arm in it. Most of my patients really worry about “Oh my God, you’re gonna give me the placebo,” and I’m like, “No, we don’t have a placebo arm in this trial. You’re taking the drug that we tell you about.” So again, depending on the trial – read it carefully – there may be a placebo arm, but in most of them, it’s not a placebo arm.

So, I would personally go ask the doctor every time, “So, you’re talking about standard of care. What else do you have? Do you have clinical trial options or not? What’s new?” Almost every single new drug that we’re gonna get approved in the next 5-10 years from now is what we have today in clinical trials. It would be cool to try and get access to those earlier.

Patricia:

So, there’s a significant amount of vetting that goes on before clinical trials are actually in process on humans.

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Oh, absolutely.

Patricia:                      

What are the common myeloma misconceptions about treatment side effects?

Dr. Ghobrial:              

I think the biggest thing is the loss of hair, the nausea, and fatigue, and to the point that I cannot travel, I cannot see my family, I’m gonna be so immunosuppressed. And again, that’s a huge misconception. Yes, there is toxicity for every drug. Even if you take aspirin, you have toxicity from it.

But, every drug has risks and benefits, and currently, the combinations we have are just impressive that they are well tolerated in general. I’m not saying there is no side effect – there is, for every different class of agents, there are, and you will go through those side effects with your doctor in detail – but in general, yes, you’re slightly immunosuppressed, you have to take care of it, and I said it yesterday to one of my patients – if someone is looking very sick in front of you, don’t go and hug them.

Christmas is around the corner, and we want to make sure people celebrate and enjoy life and enjoy the holidays with their family members.

Patricia:                      

Dr. Ghobrial, let’s talk about some of the things that patients are concerned about when they come in about treatment side effects, and maybe some of those things aren’t true. You tell me. Treatment side effects are unavoidable – we already talked a little bit about that. How about this one? “Myeloma patients should visit the dentist more frequently.”

Dr. Ghobrial:              

So, there is something about the bisphosphonates that we give patients, and they can cause – in a very rare number of patients – something called osteonecrosis of the jaw.

In the old days, when we didn’t know about that side effect, people would go get a root canal, come back, and have a big problem of osteonecrosis of the jaw with severe pain, and it doesn’t recover.

So, we’ve learned our lesson. We know very well that we hold Zometa or zoledronic acid if they’re getting any procedures. We make sure they don’t get surgical procedures – it doesn’t mean don’t get dental cleaning, please do the usual things for dental health, but don’t go into surgical procedures when you’re getting zoledronic acid – and we’re very careful with that.

We talk to our patients. Most dentists know about it, so I think this is something that in the old days, it was a problem. Now, we know how to medicate that.

Patricia:                      

Sure. How about this one? “Treatment causes increased risk for blood clots.”

Dr. Ghobrial:              

So, a couple of the drugs that we have – especially immunomodulators – can increase your risk for DVTs, blood clots, or pulmonary embolism, PE. So, the first thing we say is, “Let’s assess your baseline risk.

Are you someone who is at risk of clotting anyways?” Remember, myeloma also increases your risk of clotting, so you’re double. So, if you are at a high risk of clotting, then we would give the full anticoagulation. If you are not, then we would say aspirin is good enough to control that inflammation and endothelial damage that happens early on with therapy, and that can take care of it.

Patricia:                      

How about this one? “Side effects can be managed by diet and lifestyle.”

Dr. Ghobrial:              

So, I am a big believer that exercise and good, healthy living helps you in general. It makes your mood better, it makes you feel stronger, it gives you that energy because of the fatigue from the side effects, it helps with the dexamethasone because dex is a steroid, so you’re gonna be hungry, you’re gonna be eating more, and the on-and-off makes you fatigued and tired.

So, absolutely, diet and good healthy living – I’m not saying you have to go into extreme starvation and things like that. We say in general, be good, healthy living; exercise if you can.

Patricia:                      

What do you hear from your patients about side effects and treatments that they may think is true?

Dr. Ghobrial:              

I think neuropathy is very important, and we underestimate the neuropathy, so if you have numbness or tingling, tell your doctor.

That comes from Velcade; it comes from thalidomide when we used to use thalidomide, but it can happen in many patients who have an underlying amyloidosis and we did not diagnose it yet, or it can just happen as you go on from myeloma, rarely. So, tell your doctor about this.

I think the fatigue is very important to know about it because people suddenly change their life, and they want to know about that. I think the rashes that can happen with many of the drugs are very important to know about so that you’re not surprised when you get the rash. We know, for example, Revlimid can cause itching of the scalp, and that’s something that if we don’t tell the patients and they start going like this, then there is a problem.

So, it’s small things, but we want to let them know. We usually tell the patients everything, to a point of just going through all the side effects. It’s better to be aware of it, and then, if you get or not, at least you were aware.

Patricia:                      

Sure. How does one distinguish treatment side effects from comorbidities like fatigue?

Dr. Ghobrial:              

I think that’s important, and again, talking to your doctor is very important. Keeping a diary on the side is very important because you may have had some of those problems, and that could be from myeloma before you even started the drugs, and making sure that we know what’s from myeloma, what’s from your thyroid issue, what’s from your lung problems if you have asthma or COPD, what’s your diabetes if you have that or your other medications, from what are you doing with those medications.

I think that’s why when you start therapy, we tell you, “Try not to take too many other medications that we don’t know about, herbal medicines and other things, because then we don’t know what are the side effects and what’s causing what.”

Patricia:                      

Sure. You mentioned neuropathy. Let’s talk a little bit about what that is.

Dr. Ghobrial:              

So, neuropathy can come in different ways, but the most common one is numbness and tingling that you have in your tips of toes and tips of your fingers, and that can happen from medications, as we said, or from the underlying myeloma or amyloidosis. It can be painful, and we’re careful that if you have this, tell your doctor because if it get worse and worse, it’s very hard for us to reverse neuropathy, so just always tell us because we can stop the drug, we can decrease the dose rather than having you go through it.

31:59

Patricia:                      

What about this one? “An MGUS diagnosis will lead to myeloma.”

Dr. Ghobrial:     

Great question. So, let’s talk about MGUS in general. In the general population, once you’re over the age of 50, there’s a three percent change of having MGUS incidentally found, and that’s known from the big studies from Dr. Robert Kyle. Any of us walking around probably may have MGUS, and we don’t know.

We started recently a big study called the PROMISE study where we actually screen for the first time to look for myeloma – or, for MGUS – and the reason for that is we said, “You go screening for mammography with breast cancer, you go screening with a colonoscopy for colon cancer; we don’t screen for myeloma, which is an easy blood cancer with a blood test. Let’s screen for it.” So, that’s available online – promisestudy.org.

The other thing that we said is if you have MGUS, your chance of progression is only one percent per year. That’s very important to know. So, that means that in 10 years, you have a 10% chance of progression to myeloma. In 20 years, you have a 20% chance. So, if you’re 70 or 80, you may have something else that happens before you even develop myeloma or before you are at risk of myeloma.

However, that doesn’t mean that you don’t have the chance. You have a very small chance; it’s a precursor to myeloma, but it’s one of the biggest precursors to myeloma, so we always tell you, “Please go see your doctor, please do follow up with us because the one thing that’s important is we catch it early before it happens.” So, it does not always go to myeloma, but if we live for another 100 years, it may actually progress to myeloma because of the 1% chance per year.

Patricia:                      

How about this one? “MGUS and smoldering myeloma are the same.”

Dr. Ghobrial:              

That’s not true. That’s a very important question. So, in general, MGUS is diagnosed as having less than 10% plasma cells and a small monoclonal protein, less than 3 grams, and you don’t have any organ damage.

Smoldering myeloma – and, the name says it; it’s almost myeloma, it has a higher chance of progressing to myeloma – in general, it’s about 10% per year, and usually, the bone marrow has more than 10% plasma cells. Now, you start telling me as a patient, “Well, if my bone marrow is nine percent, I’m MGUS, and if it’s 11%, I’m smoldering myeloma, that doesn’t make sense.” So, it’s correct. In general, those demarcations or numbers are more for us as physicians to talk to each other about what we’re calling rather than the patient themselves. The patient is a continuum.

So, you may move from MGUS to smoldering at a certain point, and it’s not really that extra percentage of bone marrow that moves you into the 10% risk. In general, again, smoldering myeloma, you have a higher chance of going to myeloma. So, I saw a patient recently who’s 30 who has smoldering myeloma. The chances of progressing to myeloma is 10% per year. In five years, you have a 50% chance.

You want to make sure that patient is followed up carefully, and you want to offer, potentially, clinical trials because we want to prevent progression. The hope in the future is you don’t want until you have lytic lesions, fractures in your bones, kidney failure, and then we treat. The hope is we treat you earlier and we can make a huge difference in that early intersection for myeloma.

Patricia:                      

It sounds like staying engaged with your care team is critical.

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Absolutely, and I would say myeloma is a specialty field. Come and see a myeloma expert, wherever it is, even for a one-time consult, because it’s really complicated and it’s not a common disease, so it’s not something easy for everyone to know what to do with MGUS, what to do with smoldering, what to do with overt myeloma. I relax for the first time. All of these things are important, and just like you go and see the best specialist in anything, I would say care about your myeloma in a very specific way, ask your doctor questions, go online and look it up, and always ask an expert if you want to have a second opinion.

Patricia:                      

Sure. How about this one? “Myeloma is hereditary.”

Dr. Ghobrial:              

It’s a very good question. So, it’s not hereditary specifically. However, there is a 2x increased risk in family members, and that goes back to that PROMISE study.

We are screening people who have first-degree relatives with myeloma. So, what does it mean? Why do I have a higher risk if I have a family member with myeloma? I recently saw a patient who – the patient had myeloma, the mother had myeloma, and the grandmother had myeloma, and you’re thinking, “Okay, there is something we’re inheriting.”

So, we don’t know. There are some susceptibility genes that we could potentially be inheriting, germ line, and we’ve done something called “germ line,” which means you have it from Mom and Dad, that can increase your risk. It could be other factors come in and we’re still trying to understand all of these factors. What are the genes that can increase your risk? Is there an immune factor that can increase your risk, and can we identify those early in the family members?

Patricia:                      

What about preventing progression from smoldering? Is there anything patients can do?

Dr. Ghobrial:              

I would say enroll on the PCROWD. Study PCROWD is empowering patients themselves to go online. You can look it up – PCrowd with Dana-Farber – so, precursor crowdsourcing.

This is a study where anyone who has MGUS or smoldering myeloma can tell us about their data – so, their clinical information – tell us about their samples – so, give us their samples whenever they’re going to get their peripheral blood or their bone marrow – and by doing that, we can look at 1,000-3,000 people, put it all together, and hopefully give you very soon the answer of what causes progression, what are the specific markers genomically and immune that can predict progression, and can we target them?

Can we develop therapy for you specifically as a smoldering patient and not use the same drugs as myeloma, but target it for one specific patient for one specific operation?

Patricia:                      

When patients come into your office, they’re learning a lot of new things. Are there terms that are confusing to patients that you need to define for them?

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Absolutely. I think a lot of those terms are very hard. The words “complete remission” – was that a cure or not? It’s not.

We decrease all of your M spike, we decrease your plasma cells to zero, but it doesn’t mean that we’ve cured you. I think progression is very important. We use certain numbers. A 25% increase in your M spike or a 0.5-gram increase – even monoclonal protein is important to understand, that that’s the antibody that your plasma cells are secreting.

So, absolutely, there are so many words that could be very daunting for any patient to go through all of this. I think having an advocate with you – don’t go on your own because there’s so much information you’re getting that first time. I personally think if patients are recording us or taking notes, that’s perfectly fine because you go back and think about it, and you want to make sure that the information is clear.

So, it’s a lot of information to take in, especially if you’re not in the medical field, and I would encourage patients to ask questions, take notes, think about it a lot.

Patricia:                      

Tell me what an M spike is.

Dr. Ghobrial:    

So, an M spike – a monoclonal spike – is the protein – the antibodies. So, plasma cells are actually antibody-secreting cells, so they secrete the antibody, it goes in the blood, and when you have a lot of it from the same type of cell, they’re monoclonal, so they’re all the same IgG kappa – IgG kappa because they came all from that same kind of plasma cells.

And, when we run a specific gel, called serum protein electrophoresis, all of those antibodies will run in one area, and they will do a spike instead of going into a bigger area, where we call it polyclonal. So, that tiny little spike, which is a very high level of all of them coming together, we can measure it, and we can say, “Your monoclonal spike is 3 grams per deciliter.” If you don’t have all of them the same type of protein, they will just go around in one big area – big lump, basically, on that electrophoresis, and they will not come out as a spike. So, that’s monoclonal spike. 40:44

Patricia:                      

And, what are some reliable source of information for myeloma? The world wide web is vast.

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Yeah, and it’s unfortunate. So, there is so much information, and you can get lost, and you can also get misinformation. I think some of the big foundations are very important So, I would say the Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation, the International Myeloma Foundation, the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, and of course, if you go to clinicaltrials.gov, you will find that information, and you’ll find a lot of the clinical trials. But again, ask your doctor. Ask the experts.

Patricia:

There are a lot of online forums – again, we talked about how vast the internet is. How can a patient identify misinformation online? What are some clues?

Dr. Ghobrial:              

That’s a hard one. I would say again, print it and take it to your doctor. Tell him, “Does that make sense? I’ve read this.” This is where you really need to do your research and go to the sites that you have confidence in so that you’re not lost in the middle of so much misinformation.

Patricia:                      

Do you have patients come in and say things to you that you just have to say, “Whoa, that’s just not accurate”?

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Yeah, but again, this is part of the discussion. I personally think every question is a good question. Even if it sounds completely ridiculous, ask it. That’s why we’re here. We’re here to tell you, “This is right, this is wrong, this one I don’t know, I’m not so sure,” and that’s okay. It’s part of the discussion.

Patricia:                      

Before we finish up, let’s get your take on the future of myeloma. What are you seeing on the horizon?

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Oh, a lot, and I hope I live long enough to see all of the amazing things. I truly think that we will cure myeloma. I think we should treat patients early. That’s an absolute change.

I think immunotherapy is coming in, CAR-T, bispecific antibodies. We will harness our immune system to kill myeloma, and I think there’s so much to be done there. I think precision medicine is very important. The first study is from MMRF [Multiple Myeloma Research Foundation] coming out now, genotyping, asking the questions “Which mutations do you have?”, and then putting them into different buckets so you can understand which disease should be treated with which drug.

We always say we know there is different subtypes of myeloma, then we treat you the same way, so let’s stop doing that, let’s do precision medicine, let’s individualize treatment specifically for you. So, I think that’s another big thing. So, in the future, there will be so many options. The hope is truly we’ll cure myeloma, we diagnose it early, we screen for it, we diagnose it early, and we prevent it from even causing one lytic lesion for a patient. 41:52

Patricia:                      

Dr. Ghobrial, let’s end by talking about why you’re so hopeful about the future of myeloma.

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Well, again, I trained – and, I said that 15 years ago – at Mayo Clinic, where we only had few drugs, when the survival of myeloma was three to five years, when we saw patients having severe fractures and severe pain, and now, we look at it, and it’s only 15 years in our lifetime, and we look at it that myeloma is a completely different disease.

We can diagnose it early – in fact, we’re thinking of screening them early – we can make a huge difference in all of the comorbidities, but the most important thing is we have so many amazing drugs that we’re using together to get an amazing, complete remission, MRD-negative disease, and then, in the next 5-10 years, I think we will change, again, immunotherapy with CAR-T. We will have precision medicine and immunotherapy to completely change how we treat myeloma. So, I am extremely hopeful and extremely excited for our patients.

Patricia:                      

So, how do you talk to your patients about this hope? I would imagine that when they come in, they’re pretty terrified about what’s going on.

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Absolutely. Again, the first thing is you want to say, “Yes, you have a cancer,” and that shocks you. That is a big thing. It makes a big difference in a patient. “I have cancer now” is an important part that you have to acknowledge.

And then, you go to the next step, and now, let’s talk about treatment. Let’s talk about survival. Let’s not say, “I will not see my kids grow up.” These are not things – again, we cannot predict. We’re not gonna play God, and we can never predict if someone will respond or not, but we know from the data that we have so far that we have amazing remissions and long-term survivors. I have many of my patients that I transplanted 15 years ago still alive, doing well. Again, I cannot say that myeloma is cured, but we have a good remission rate currently.

Patricia:                      

Dr. Ghobrial, thank you so much for taking the time today.

Dr. Ghobrial:              

Absolutely. Thank you.

Patricia:                      

And, thanks to our partners. To learn more about myeloma and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Patricia Murphy.