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When Can Small Cell Lung Cancer Patients Use Palliative Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

When might small cell lung cancer patients want to use palliative care? Expert Beth Sandy from Abramson Cancer Center defines palliative care and shares examples of palliative care support.

[ACT]IVATION TIP

“…there’s even data to show in lung cancer that patients who see palliative care in addition to their primary oncologist actually live longer and have improved quality of life. So we will often pair up with the palliative care team to help our patients maximize their symptom support and their side effect support, and have a good understanding of what their goals of care are with the treatment so that everyone’s on the same page and everyone is having a good experience.”

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Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Palliative care is important for quality of life during small cell lung cancer treatment. Can you, first of all, explain what palliative care is, and then also give some advice, any advice you have for patients and their families on including palliative care early on in their course?

Beth Sandy:

So first, let’s define what palliative care is. It seems to be a big word, and sometimes people get a little concerned or confused when they hear that and they think, “Oh, does this mean I’m at the end or something like that?” And it absolutely does not. So palliative care means helping with supportive care or treatment of your side effects or symptoms. So we have a whole different set of doctors and nurse practitioners at my institution who just focus on the palliative care needs.

So, for example, if I have a patient with lung cancer, that’s what I treat, or maybe small cell lung cancer, but if I have a patient with lung cancer who is having a lot of pain and in my visit, I know the basics of the opioids and other medications, but usually we’ll send those patients to palliative care because they will have some other ideas and they can really focus and spend a half-hour just talking about those symptoms, like the pain, the cough, the shortness of breath, the weight loss.

So some people call it palliative care service, other people call it a supportive care service. That’s another kind of term for it. What the palliative care teams often do is what’s called the goals of care discussion, and that can mean a lot of different things to patients. What are your goals with life in general? Not even related to your cancer. Learning about you. Like who do you live with? Who is dependent on you? Who are you dependent on? And then going from there, and what is your understanding of your cancer and what are your goals with the treatment?

Sometimes we use a term called trade-offs. We would say, if the cancer, we’re treating it and it’s worsening, and then we have another treatment for it, and those side effects may be a little bit harder, is that something you want to risk, is being in the hospital and maybe being sick over the holidays or something, or would you prefer not to do that?

So palliative care often helps us with these goals of care discussions, and that can even lead to discussions about do I want CPR and resuscitation and things like that? Some people from the very start of their cancer, even if it’s a curable cancer, say, “But I’m at the point in my life where I have all these other illnesses, and I don’t want to be resuscitated. I want a natural death.” So those are all things that palliative care oftentimes can help with, living wills and things like that. And it’s not to say that your oncologist can’t because these are things I can do as well. But if I’m in a visit with you and I wanted to focus really on the current chemotherapy you’re on and those side effects, it may be better to have a palliative care doctor come on who is trained more in having those discussions.

And I wanted to make one distinction. Is that palliative care is absolutely not hospice care. So hospice care is when we’ve decided we do not want to do any more treatment for the cancer, and we want to improve the quality of the time that we have left. That’s hospice care. Palliative care is not that. Palliative care is when you are still on treatment, and we just want to maximize the supportive care and talk about what your goals are of the treatment. So I think my activation tip here for palliative care is that we often use it in lung cancer.

There’s even a study, there’s even data to show in lung cancer that patients who see palliative care in addition to their primary oncologist actually live longer and have improved quality of life. So we will often pair up with the palliative care team to help our patients maximize their symptom support and their side effect support, and have a good understanding of what their goals of care are with the treatment so that everyone’s on the same page and everyone is having a good experience.

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Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Jerry had this question. “How long can patients stay on azacitidine (Vidaza) and venetoclax (Venclexta) before relapse or toxicities force them to abandon treatment?”

Dr. Jacqueline Garcia:

So, this is a good question. I would say azacitidine and venetoclax just got FDA-approved just shy of five years now, and it’s totally changed our treatment paradigm in many great ways. It was initially approved for patients that could not get intensive chemotherapies or were above 75. We call these our older patients, our more vulnerable.

And we demonstrated and compared to azacitidine alone. It was given with placebo. We saw that the combination of azacitidine and venetoclax not only was safe, well-tolerated, it led to two-and-a-half times higher complete remission rates and impressively longer survival. That’s all we care about, patients are living longer. So, one of the things that we are appreciating in 2023 now, now that we have more patients on azacitidine and venetoclax, is that we have many patients that are long-term responders.

So, in the original clinical trial we’ve been reported – and we just submitted the update for the long-term follow-up that we presented at the American Society of Hematology meeting in 2022, in December.

We presented the long-term follow-up data that shows that responses can be durable and even as long as two years or three years in some patients. The average amount of time the patients are on therapy is somewhere between one-and-a-half to two years. But not every patient performs like an average patient.

We have some that respond for less time. We have some that respond for a longer time. So, I definitely have a few patients that have been on combination therapy, and we’ve gone to year three, then four, and two that got to year five. And that was using the original indication of older the 75, no intensive chemotherapy. Most of those patients in the original trial and led to the approval were not transplant candidates. But once those drugs got approved, more patients that were older started getting this therapy.

And so, the durability of this treatment might be longer for people that don’t have competing health problems and for specific mutation subtypes. There are a couple of mutation subtypes that include IDH2 and NPM1, where we’ve seen some extreme long-term responders.

And then, there are others that are much shorter. So, I would say it’s very individual. In terms of toxicities in general, the regimens very well-tolerated. And if it’s not, often it’s because there should be supportive care, prophylaxis, and adjustments to the dosing strategy, which has been well-published. Sometimes, if you have a treating oncologist that is less familiar, they won’t know the nuances of how to adjust the doses, so I would ask your local oncologist to reach out to anybody that was part of the original trials. Often, a lot of us are very responsive to helping out our colleagues to help patients to stay on treatment.

But at the end of the day, if a patient loses response or has a bad toxicity that makes it very difficult, we have to move on to another therapy.

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