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Newly Diagnosed Follicular Lymphoma and Treatment Options

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What are the approaches to newly diagnosed follicular lymphoma and treatment options? Expert Dr. Brad Kahl from Washington University School of Medicine discusses common follicular lymphoma symptoms, patients who experience no symptoms, watch and wait, and follicular lymphoma treatment options.

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See More from START HERE Follicular Lymphoma

Related Resources:

What Is Follicular Lymphoma Exactly?

What Is Follicular Lymphoma Exactly?

 Emerging Therapies in Relapsed Follicular Lymphoma: What’s Next?

Emerging Therapies in Relapsed Follicular Lymphoma: What’s Next?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So, Dr. Kahl, you also mentioned treatments and how oftentimes it’s not a cancer where you can just remove the cancer. Can you talk about some of the exciting developments with treatments and new innovative therapies, and what are the most important highlights for patients and families?

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Yeah. There’s a lot to talk about here. So I’ll start with how we approach a newly diagnosed patient, and then we’ll go into how we approach patients who have relapsed disease. So the most often, or the most common way a follicular lymphoma patient comes to medical attention is they just either notice a lump from an enlarging lymph node, or some enlarged lymph nodes are just found incidentally, because they’re having some testing for some other condition.

And so, like I said, very often patients don’t have symptoms. That’s very typical. Occasionally, the patients will have symptoms, and those symptoms might be pain from a large lymph node mass that’s pushing on something. Occasionally, they might have fevers or night sweats. They wake up in the middle of the night just drenching wet, or unexplained weight loss. Those would be symptoms that can occur in follicular lymphoma. But most patients who come to see us for the first time don’t have symptoms.

When we have a newly diagnosed patient and it takes a biopsy to make the diagnosis, we then need to do the staging evaluation. So that involves some sort of imaging. And nowadays that’s usually in the form of what’s called a PET scan, which gives us a good snapshot of the whole body. And it’ll show us enlarged lymph nodes. And then the PET portion of the scan will show us if the lymph nodes are metabolically more active.

So they show up as these bright spots on the PET scan. And that’s what allows us to stage the patient. It tells us where the disease is located and how much of the disease we see. And so I’m often telling patients, I don’t worry so much about the stage. I worry more about the disease burden. So the way I explain that to patients is, suppose I could take all the follicular lymphoma cells out of your body, and I made a pile. How big is the pile? And that’s actually, I think, more important than the stage in determining our initial strategy.

Because believe it or not, if we have a patient who comes to us with a new diagnosis of follicular lymphoma and they have no symptoms, and it turns out that their tumor burden is very low, we often will recommend an initial approach of no treatment, which is a strange thing for patients to hear. And we spend a lot of time trying to explain the rationale for that. So I’ll try to explain that to you now. Follicular lymphoma is hard to cure. So it’s this weird cancer in that it’s slow-moving. It often doesn’t make people sick, and we have good treatments for it, but curing it, like making it go away once and for all, proves to be kind of difficult.

And studies in the past have shown if you have a patient who has no symptoms and is low tumor burden, that their prognosis is just as good if you leave them alone at the beginning. And many patients will not need any treatment at all for two years, three years, five years. I even have follicular lymphoma patients who I’ve been observing for more than 10 years that have never needed any treatment.

About two out of every 10 patients that are newly diagnosed can go 10 years without needing any treatment. So that’s why we’ll start that strategy for some patients. And that psychologically can be difficult for patients. You’re telling me I’ve got a new cancer diagnosis. You’re saying you have good treatments for it. And yet you’re saying you don’t want to use any of those treatments. And so it takes a lot of talking and explaining to try to get people comfortable with that.

Some people never get comfortable with that, I admit it. But some people get very comfortable with it. But it is a very appropriate initial strategy for a low tumor burden asymptomatic person just to observe and get a handle on the pace of the disease. If the disease starts to grow, or if the patient starts to get symptoms, we can start our treatment at that time. And the treatment is going to work just as well as it would have had if we started it last year, or two years ago.

So we feel like we’re putting the patient in no harm, no risk of harm by starting on this strategy of a watch and wait. On the other hand, some patients have high tumor burden, they have a lot of disease, or they have symptoms. And for those patients we need to start them on treatment, because the treatment can put them in remission and get them feeling better. Right now, the most common frontline treatment in follicular lymphoma will be a combination of some chemotherapy and some immunotherapy.

The most commonly used regimen in the United States right now is a two drug regimen, a chemotherapy drug called bendamustine (Treanda), and an immunotherapy drug called rituximab (Rituxan). And you give that treatment every 28 days for six months. And it’ll put 90 percent of people into remission. And on average, those remissions last five-plus years. And it’s a very, very tolerable treatment. It’s not too bad as far as chemotherapy goes. There’s no, most people don’t lose their hair. They don’t get peripheral neuropathy that sometimes chemotherapy drugs give.

It’s not too bad for nausea and things like that. I’m not saying it’s easy or it’s fun. It’s none of that. But as far as chemo goes, it’s not too bad. And it’s effective, it is very effective. And I’ve given that treatment, and I have people who are still in their first remission 10 years later, so you can get, for some people can get these really long remissions. 

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Follicular Lymphoma Patient Expert Q&A: Dr. Brad Kahl

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Dr. Brad Kahl from Washington University School of Medicine explores the transformative potential of emerging therapies for follicular lymphoma and their significance for patients and families. He also addresses the unique challenges of living with follicular lymphoma and its impact on patients’ lives today.

Download Resource Guide | Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Follicular Lymphoma

Related Resources:

What’s the News on Follicular Lymphoma and Bispecific Antibodies

 What Should Follicular Lymphoma Patients Know About Remission

 What Can Follicular Lymphoma Patients Expect With Remission

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Welcome to this START HERE Patient Empowerment Network program. This program bridges the expert and patient voice, enabling patients and care partners to feel comfortable asking questions of their health care team. Joining me today is hematologist-oncologist Dr. Brad Kahl, Professor of Medicine in the Division of Oncology at the Washington University School of Medicine and Director of the lymphoma program at the Alvin J. Siteman Cancer Center in St. Louis, Missouri. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Kahl.

Dr. Brad Kahl:

It’s a pleasure. Thanks for having me, Lisa.

Lisa Hatfield:  

The world is complicated, but understanding your follicular lymphoma diagnosis and treatment options along your journey doesn’t have to be. The goal of Start Here is to create actionable pathways for getting the most out of your follicular lymphoma treatment and survivorship. No matter where you are on your journey, this program is designed to provide easy to understand, reliable, and digestible information to help you make informed decisions. And most of all, we’re asking questions from you. I’m thrilled you’ve joined us.

Please remember to download the program resource guide via the QR code. There is great information there that will be useful during this program and after. Let’s start here. Dr. Kahl, there is a great deal going on in the follicular lymphoma landscape, and I want to dig into that. But before we do, as is custom for this program, I’d like to start with a brief overview of this disease. What is follicular lymphoma? And can you break it down a little bit, the key differences between Hodgkin and non-Hodgkin lymphoma and how follicular lymphoma fits into that?

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Sure. The terminology can be kind of confusing to patients, so I’ll try to explain it. Hodgkin lymphoma is a specific kind of lymphoma. Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma just means it’s not Hodgkin’s. So non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma is just a big, broad, descriptive term. It’s like saying automobile. But there are lots of different kinds of cars, obviously. So follicular lymphoma is a specific type of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. So it’d be like saying Chevy Malibu or something specific within that automobile term. So there’s like 100 different kinds of non-Hodgkin lymphoma. Follicular lymphoma is one of those. A

nd it’s kind of a unique answer biologically and clinically. Follicular lymphoma is characterized by this particular mutation inside the cells that sends a signal to the cells that says don’t die. So instead of being a disease of rapid cellular proliferation and growth, it’s more of a disease of slow cellular accumulation. If people can picture that, the cells are just accumulating slowly. So it’s kind of a slow-moving cancer. And probably when patients are diagnosed, they’ve probably had it for a long time already.

They just didn’t know it, because follicular lymphoma often doesn’t cause symptoms. And usually when we get a patient with newly diagnosed follicular lymphoma, the disease is very widespread. And that obviously makes people fearful. And so we spend a lot of time trying to reassure them that’s not a problem that’s typical for follicular lymphoma. Everybody wants to know their stage, of course. And I try to tell them, the stage doesn’t really matter that much in follicular lymphoma. In some cancers, the stage is a big deal. But those are cancers that you can kind of remove surgically.

But there’s really no role for surgery as a treatment in follicular lymphoma. The disease is typically very widespread in diagnosis, meaning it’s all over the body. And so when we do treat it, we pick treatments that will work everywhere. And our treatments tend to work just as well when the disease is at a more advanced stage. That’s why as the doctors, we don’t spend too much time worrying about the stage. It’s just not, it’s not as important in follicular lymphoma.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you. And just to clarify, when you mentioned that there is a mutation or often mutations in follicular lymphoma, is that in the cancer cells themselves, or is that in a mutation, like a BRCA mutation that a patient can be tested for? I presume it is.

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Right. That’s a great question. The mutation is specific to the cancer cells. So people are not born with this mutation. It’s not a mutation that you pass along in your family to children. It’s a mutation that is acquired in these cells at some point in the patient’s lifetime. Another confusing term is this whole idea of B-cell lymphoma or T-cell lymphoma.

And just to try to clarify that. So we have different kinds of lymphocytes in our body, and these lymphocytes, they have jobs to do as part of our immune system. And one kind of lymphocyte is a T cell, and that has specific roles in our immune system. And another kind is a B cell, and that has specific jobs to do in our immune system. Follicular lymphoma is derived from a B cell, a B-cell lymphocyte. So the…a B cell gets this mutation, and that turns it from a normal healthy B cell into a follicular lymphoma cell.

Lisa Hatfield:  

Okay. Thank you for explaining that and for that overview. That’s really helpful. I appreciate that. So, Dr. Kahl, you also mentioned treatments and how oftentimes it’s not a cancer where you can just remove the cancer. Can you talk about some of the exciting developments with treatments and new innovative therapies, and what are the most important highlights for patients and families?

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Yeah. There’s a lot to talk about here. So I’ll start with how we approach a newly diagnosed patient, and then we’ll go into how we approach patients who have relapsed disease. So the most often, or the most common way a follicular lymphoma patient comes to medical attention is they just either notice a lump from an enlarging lymph node, or some enlarged lymph nodes are just found incidentally because they’re having some testing for some other condition.

And so, like I said, very often patients don’t have symptoms. That’s very typical. Occasionally, the patients will have symptoms, and those symptoms might be pain from a large lymph node mass that’s pushing on something. Occasionally, they might have fevers or night sweats. They wake up in the middle of the night just drenching wet, or unexplained weight loss. Those would be symptoms that can occur in follicular lymphoma. But most patients who come to see us for the first time don’t have symptoms.

When we have a newly diagnosed patient and it takes a biopsy to make the diagnosis, we then need to do the staging evaluation. So that involves some sort of imaging. And nowadays that’s usually in the form of what’s called a PET scan, which gives us a good snapshot of the whole body. And it’ll show us enlarged lymph nodes. And then the PET portion of the scan will show us if the lymph nodes are metabolically more active.

So they show up as these bright spots on the PET scan. And that’s what allows us to stage the patient. It tells us where the disease is located and how much of the disease we see. And so I’m often telling patients, I don’t worry so much about the stage. I worry more about the disease burden. So the way I explain that to patient is, suppose I could take all the follicular lymphoma cells out of your body, and I made a pile. How big is the pile? And that’s actually, I think, more important than the stage in determining our initial strategy.

Because believe it or not, if we have a patient who comes to us with a new diagnosis of follicular lymphoma and they have no symptoms, and it turns out that their tumor burden is very low, we often will recommend an initial approach of no treatment, which is a strange thing for patients to hear. And we spend a lot of time trying to explain the rationale for that. So I’ll try to explain that to you now. Follicular lymphoma is hard to cure.

So it’s this weird cancer in that it’s slow-moving. It often doesn’t make people sick, and we have good treatments for it, but curing it, like making it go away once and for all, proves to be kind of difficult. And studies in the past have shown if you have a patient who has no symptoms and is low tumor burden, that their prognosis is just as good if you leave them alone at the beginning. And many patients will not need any treatment at all for two years, three years, five years. I even have follicular lymphoma patients who I’ve been observing for more than 10 years that have never needed any treatment.

About two out of every 10 patients that are newly diagnosed can go 10 years without needing any treatment. So that’s why we’ll start that strategy for some patients. And that’s psychologically can be difficult for patients. You’re telling me I’ve got a new cancer diagnosis. You’re saying you have good treatments for it. And yet you’re saying you don’t want to use any of those treatments. And so it takes a lot of talking and explaining to try to get people comfortable with that.

Some people never get comfortable with that, I admit it. But some people get very comfortable with it. But it is a very appropriate initial strategy for a low tumor burden asymptomatic person just to observe and get a handle on the pace of the disease. If the disease starts to grow, or if the patient starts to get symptoms, we can start our treatment at that time. And the treatment is going to work just as well as it would have had if we started it last year, or two years ago.

So we feel like we’re putting the patient in no harm, no risk of harm by starting on this strategy of a watch and wait. On the other hand, some patients have high tumor burden, they have a lot of disease, or they have symptoms. And for those patients we need to start them on treatment because the treatment can put them in remission and get them feeling better. Right now, the most common frontline treatment in follicular lymphoma will be a combination of some chemotherapy and some immunotherapy.

The most commonly used regimen in the United States right now is a two drug regimen, a chemotherapy drug called bendamustine (Treanda), and an immunotherapy drug called rituximab (Rituxan). And you give that treatment every 28 days for six months. And it’ll put 90 percent of people into remission. And on average, those remissions last five plus years. And it’s a very, very tolerable treatment.  It’s not too bad as far as chemotherapy goes. There’s no, most people don’t lose their hair. They don’t get peripheral neuropathy, that sometimes chemotherapy drugs give.

It’s not too bad for nausea and things like that. I’m not saying it’s easy or it’s fun. It’s none of that. But as far as chemo goes, it’s not too bad. And it’s effective, it is very effective. And I’ve given that treatment and I have people who are still in their first remission 10 years later, so you can get, for some people can get these really long remissions. But the reality is most patients, their disease does come back, they do relapse at some point. And then we have to start talking about what to do for second line treatment or third-line treatments.

And that’s where things have really taken off in follicular lymphoma in the last few years, there are a number of brand new treatment options in play for relapsed follicular lymphoma that are very exciting, and proves that we’re moving away from chemotherapy. We have drugs that are oral, that are, we call them targeted agents, they hit like a molecular pathway inside the cell a lot, and they kill the cells a lot differently than chemotherapy does. And we have a number of new drugs that work through the immune system, and try to attack the lymphoma that way.

So when we have patients who relapse, probably the most commonly used second-line treatment right now is a combination of a drug called lenalidomide (Revlimid), which is a pill that’s used in a few different cancers. It works very well for certain cancers, and it works well in follicular lymphoma. And that’s given with the immunotherapy drug called rituximab. And that was proven in a study to be very effective. About 80 percent of people will respond to the regimen, and that remission on average lasts in the two to three-year range.

So that’s probably the most commonly used second line regimen right now in the U.S. for follicular lymphoma. And then there are a number of treatments that are now available in third-line and beyond that are new within the past, say three, four years. And these newer treatments that I’m about to describe are now being tested as second line treatments and even as first-line treatments.

So it’s possible that some of these treatments I’m about to describe will become in the future, our go to regimens for first line treatment or second line treatment. And we hope they do move up, because that means they’re, it means they’re even better than what we’ve been using. So probably the treatments that we’re most excited about right now in follicular lymphoma are the drugs called bispecific monoclonal antibodies. There are two that are now FDA-approved. One’s called mosunetuzumab-axgb (Lunsumio), and that was approved about a year-and-a-half ago.

And the other one’s called epcoritamab-bysp (Epkinly), and that was approved just a month ago. And basically these drugs are infused or injected under the skin, infused intravenously injected under the skin and their proteins that will literally stick to the lymphoma cells. And when it does that, it kind of coats the cancer cells. And then after these bispecific antibodies coat the tumor cells, they literally will trick the patient’s T cells or healthy T cells to come in and attack the cancer.

So it’s a way of trying to trick the patient’s own immune system to come in and start fighting the cancer. And these two drugs are very promising in the relapse setting. They work about 80 percent of the time to get some kind of response. About 60 percent of the time patients will go into complete remission, which means we can’t find any evidence for the lymphoma on scans. And they’re both so new that I don’t think we have a full understanding of how durable these remissions are going to be right now.

It looks that like about, if you do get a complete remission, that about half of those patients are holding that complete remission at two and three years. But we’re, we don’t know about four years and five years yet because the drugs are too new. And we expect that if, as these drugs move up and are tested in the second-line setting and in the first-line setting, they’ll work even better because the cancer cells tend to be easier to kill in earlier lines of therapy. Other agents that have moved into the relapse follicular lymphoma space would include CAR T-cell therapy.

This is a fairly sophisticated complicated approach where you actually will run the patient’s blood through apheresis machine and you will extract the patient’s T cells and those T cells get genetically modified in a lab and then expanded and then are shipped back to the center and then re-infused back into the patient. So now again, we’re tricking the patient’s T cells into fighting their B-cell lymphoma.

And there are three CAR T products that are now FDA approved for use in follicular lymphoma, and they have very high response rates. With seemingly good durability we’re now getting three and four-year follow-up for these CAR T products with about half of people still in remission. The CAR T products probably have a little more toxicity and a little more risk than the bispecifics. So I think most of us are thinking we would try the bispecifics before CAR T, but there might be certain patients where a CAR T strategy is more appropriate to use before a bispecific.

So we’re very excited to have these tools in our toolbox. It’s always good to have more options. And then I should just mention the small molecule inhibitors. So here’s an example. Just this past year there was approval for a small molecule called zanubrutinib (Brukinsa). It targets an enzyme called BTK or Bruton’s tyrosine kinase. This is a pill really well tolerated. It’s given in a combination with an immunotherapy drug called obinutuzumab (Gazyva). This zanubrutinib-obinutuzumab combination got FDA-approved just this year for recurrent follicular lymphoma.

The results look very good for that. It’s very well-tolerated. There’s another oral agent called tazemetostat (Tazverik), which was approved a couple of years ago. It targets a mutated protein in follicular lymphoma. This is, again, is a pill super well-tolerated, very few side effects. So, there’s just a few examples for you of all the different treatment options we have for follicular lymphoma that has recurred after initial treatment.

And believe it or not, the decision-making can be difficult when you have so many choices and so many good choices, that’s a good problem to have. And I find myself a lot of times spending a lot of time with the patient and their family as we talk through these different options, and we try to think what’s best for them at this point in time, talking through the pros and the cons, how active it is, what side effects do we need to be concerned about. And it’s a lot for patients to digest when you have so many choices. But like I mentioned that’s actually a good problem to have.

Lisa Hatfield:

I think you’re right. There’s a lot of hope in those options. I do have two follow-up questions. One of them is when you talk about lenalidomide or brand name Revlimid, CAR T bispecific antibodies, this new small molecule, are these all quality of life is so important for cancer patients. Are these all limited duration treatments for recurrent disease when there’s a recurrence of the disease or are they long-term treatments for the disease?

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Yeah, really good question. And the answer is different for every agent. So I’ll try to just kind of run through the list. For the CAR T products, the three different CAR T products, it’s like a one-time treatment and then you’re done because the cells that get infused will persist in the patient’s body for months and months and months. So they’re infused and then the cells will hang around a long time acting on the cancer. So for the CAR T it’s a one-time treatment. For the bispecifics, the mosunetuzumab-axgb product is a time-limited treatment that is done in less than a year. The epcoritamab-bysp is designed to be given indefinitely.

So those are, there are some pros and cons of those two agents, the two small molecules that I mentioned, the zanubrutinib is meant to be given indefinitely and the tazemetostat is meant to be given indefinitely. And then the first one I mentioned was the lenalidomide. That is in follicular lymphoma that it was developed to be given for 12 months in this setting. So the duration of therapy is unique for each of the different agents that I mentioned.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you for that overview of all those emerging therapies. That’s great to know for patients, Dr. Kahl. All right. It’s that time where we answer questions we’ve received from you. Remember, as patients, we should always feel empowered to ask our healthcare providers any and all questions we might have about our treatment, our disease, and our prognosis. Please remember, however, this program is not a substitute for medical care. Always consult with your own medical team.

So, Dr. Kahl, we have several patients who have submitted some questions. The first question is regarding emerging technologies. And I think that you probably have answered that very well actually in a discussion here. So the second question this patient had is how might future innovations build on the latest treatments to offer even better outcomes for patients? You, I think maybe have touched on that, but maybe speak to that a little bit more as far as longer remissions. Yeah.

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Right, right. So I think right now the main emphasis in research is to take some of these really promising drugs that were developed for relapsed follicular lymphoma and do two things with them, test them in combinations in the relapse setting to see if you can make them even more active. So an example of that would be take the drug lenalidomide, which is really active in the relapse setting and pair it with the drug mosunetuzumab-axgb, which is very active in the relapse setting, and pair them together and see if you can get better results than either drug alone.

So there are studies trying to answer questions like that at this time. And then the other area of major interest is to take these promising new treatments approved in the relapse setting and test them upfront. So there are studies being literally designed right now as we speak that will test bispecific monoclonal antibodies in the frontline setting.

So patients can envision being offered a chance to have a chemo-free strategy where they’re just getting a bispecific monoclonal antibody as their initial treatment. And there are studies that will test these drugs as single agents, and there are studies that will test these drugs in combinations with other agents in the frontline setting, like lenalidomide, for example. So we have no results from any of these trials yet, but these trials are just starting to enroll patients and this could fundamentally change the way we’re managing follicular lymphoma in the future if any of these new strategies turn out to be more promising than what we have done historically.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. Okay. Another question, Dr. Kahl. How do outcomes differ for patients with relapsed/refractory disease compared to those who respond well to initial treatment?

Dr. Brad Kahl:

So that’s a really good question. And when we have a patient going through frontline treatment, we’re all really crossing our fingers that that first remission is incredibly durable. Because when the disease relapses, the remissions do tend to get shorter and shorter and shorter, which is frustrating for everybody.And so we love it when we get a nice long first remission. And in the older days when all we had to offer was chemotherapy and some different immunochemotherapy regimens, the remissions in second line and third line might be two years or one year.  It can get frustrating as you go through treatment after treatment after treatment. It’s hard on patients. The side effects start to accumulate. And that’s one of the reasons we’re so excited about all these new agents that we have for relapsed disease with the bispecifics and the CAR T products and the small molecule inhibitors like tazemetostat and zanubrutinib. Because it appears as though these remissions for relapsed disease might be getting longer than what we have seen historically. So there’s no question that dealing with relapsed follicular lymphoma is more difficult than dealing with frontline follicular lymphoma. But we’re optimistic that these newer treatments we have are improving outcomes for patients with relapsed disease.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you. And another question, which patients are considered the most vulnerable when it comes to follicular lymphoma and why, and what measures can be taken to better support these populations in terms of treatment and care? And I’m not sure if they’re talking about different age groups or ethnic groups or geographic groups like rural versus more urban areas, but if you can speak maybe to general terms to answer that question, that would be great.

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Yeah, right. Well, the first thing that comes to mind are older patients. Older patients are always more challenging to take through cancer therapies. The older patients are more fragile. They don’t tolerate the treatments quite as well. They don’t have the physiologic reserve. They’re more susceptible to complications and infections. So I always think when we have older patients that need treatment in follicular lymphoma, the doctor has to be extra, extra careful, sort of the Goldilocks principle. You don’t want the treatment too hot and you don’t want it too cold, too hot, it might work great, but you might get unacceptable side effects too cold, maybe no side effects, but not enough activity against the disease. So we’re always trying to get that patient the best remission we can get them, but doing the least amount of harm along the way.

So I think that takes a little bit of art, a little bit of experience to figure out how to get your older more fragile patients through follicular lymphoma therapy. And then I think the whole idea of patients who live in rural areas, that can often be challenging too, because they may be hours and hours away from medical care. So if they do have a complication of treatment, an infection, for example, it can be challenging to get them the care they need in a quick amount of time. So when I have patients who I know live way out in the country, far away from our center, I just, we always give them a card, it’s got our phone number and I’m like, you feel like something’s going wrong, call us. I don’t care if it’s 2 in the morning, you call us.

It’s not your job to figure out what’s going wrong. That’s our job. It’s just your job to describe to us what you’re experiencing and then we’ll figure out over the phone whether we want you to drive the three hours to come see us or whether we think you just need to go to the closest place, which might be 30 minutes away. So at least you’re in the hands of some medical professionals. And then they can call us with an update on what they’re noticing, what the tests are saying. So taking care of patients who live far away from the medical center poses some additional challenges.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you. And that’s a great takeaway for patients. If you have a question, call your provider. They can help take the stress away from making that decision yourself. 

Well, here’s a loaded question for you, Dr. Kahl. Why does relapse happen in the first place, and what are the changes in the body that signal when and if treatment is likely going to fail?

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Boy, we wish we understood why relapse happens in the first place. Last I mentioned, most of these treatments can get people into remission, which means that they can kill the vast majority of the cancer cells, maybe 99.9 percent of them, but for some patients, there’s just a few stubborn cells that remain behind. Maybe those cells are just sitting there, not growing at all, which follicular lymphoma cells can do.

And when the cells are not trying to divide, not trying to grow, they’re kind of protected from killing. They’re just sitting there doing nothing. And so we think it’s this property that how the cells kind of protect themselves. And so these rare cells that are just kind of sitting there, quiescently not growing, not dividing, these might be the cells then that just hang around for years and then contribute to that relapse five years down the road.

But I admit we don’t fully understand why one patient will relapse two years after a treatment and the next patient is still in remission 10 years later. These are things that we don’t fully understand. Every patient’s lymphoma is a little different, I’m afraid. So two people with follicular lymphoma, they don’t really have the same cancer, cancer, they are sort of like snowflakes. No two are alike. And so they can have different mutations inside the cells that’ll make the cancer behave a little differently from one patient to another. It might make it respond to treatment a little differently from one patient to another. And so what is true for one follicular lymphoma patient may not be true for another.

So if a patient’s symptoms are not being relieved, that might be a clue that the treatment isn’t working as well as we want it to. And then in some cases the only way to figure out if a treatment is working is by scanning. So we’ll have a before picture from a PET scan or a CT scan, and then we’ll take them through a few cycles of treatment, and then we’ll get another scan to prove that the treatment is working like we want it to work. And if it’s not working like we want it to work, then we’ll say, okay, this one isn’t working for you. Let’s go to the what we think is the next best option for you.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you. And just listening to you and hearing about all these nuances with follicular lymphoma, I would probably recommend as a patient myself with a different kind of cancer, seeking out at least a consult from somebody who specializes mostly in follicular lymphoma, at least a hematologist who can tease through some of these nuances to help you as a patient find the best treatments and therapies and quality of life. So just a little tidbit there. So, Dr. Kahl, thank you so much for being part of this Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program.It’s these conversations that help patients truly empower themselves along their treatment journey. And on behalf of patients like myself and those watching, thank you for joining us, Dr. Kahl.

Dr. Brad Kahl:

Thank you for having me.

Lisa Hatfield:  

I’m Lisa Hatfield, thank you for joining this Patient Empowerment Network program.

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What Can Follicular Lymphoma Patients Expect With Remission?

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What Can Follicular Lymphoma Patients Expect With Remission? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

For follicular lymphoma patients, what can they expect to happen with remission? Expert Dr. Kami Maddocks from The Ohio State University explains how remission can vary among patients and shares an overview of potential treatments.

See More from START HERE Follicular Lymphoma

Related Resources:

What’s the News on Follicular Lymphoma and Bispecific Antibodies

 What Should Follicular Lymphoma Patients Know About Remission

 What Are Follicular Lymphoma Considerations for Watch and Wait

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So one person says, “I’m currently in remission, what can I expect in my future? How long does remission last? And is treatment after remission the same as initial treatment?”

Dr. Kami Maddocks: 

So that is very dependent on what a patient receives. So there are different kind…of a lot of our treatments we look at median times. When patients have relapse, that can be a little bit different for single agent antibody therapy versus antibody in combination with chemoimmunotherapy for how long that treatment remission lasts. As far as we don’t typically reuse a treatment once we have used it before, although there is data in follicular lymphoma when patients receive single agent antibodies. So rituximab (Rituxan) alone, if they do well with that single agent immunotherapy for a long period, they may receive re-treatment with just that so long as they don’t have disease that requires more aggressive treatment.

Lisa Hatfield:

So is that more likely to happen then if a patient maybe wasn’t refractory to it, if they just stopped using it for some reason? Would that be more common for that to happen to go back on that same drug?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

So with rituximab, we use it alone and in combination. So there are some patients that don’t necessarily have what we call a large tumor, and they don’t have a lot of lymph nodes, or they don’t have large lymph nodes, but they might be symptomatic from them, or the location might be problematic. And so once these lymph nodes get a certain size, they usually don’t have as good of a response to single agent antibody therapy. But there are patients who have small lymph nodes that aren’t as big but again are causing a problem that can get completely…you give a short course of the rituximab, and it can last for a very long time and then you would consider again using a short course of that rituximab.

The chemotherapies we have, we don’t reuse chemotherapy, for the most part. Some of that, for a while, there was bendamustine (Treanda) if patients got five, six, 10-year remissions out of it. Sometimes they would re-get that chemotherapy. But I think we’ve just seen so many newer therapies approved in the last five six years. Like the bispecifics, the EZH2 inhibitors, lenalidomide (Revlimid), CAR T, we had different PI3K inhibitors available for a while. And so I think it was just that you had the ability to offer a patient something that they never had before, and that is more appealing.

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What Follicular Lymphoma Treatment Side Effects Should Patients Expect?

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What Follicular Lymphoma Treatment Side Effects Should Patients Expect? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Follicular lymphoma patients might experience different side effects, so what should patients expect? Expert Dr. Kami Maddocks from The Ohio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center discusses various treatments and common side effects that patients experience.

See More from START HERE Follicular Lymphoma

Related Resources:

What’s New for Follicular Lymphoma Treatment News and Developments

What’s New for Follicular Lymphoma Treatment News and Developments?

 What Can Follicular Lymphoma Patients Expect for PET-CT Scans

 What Are Predictors of Follicular Lymphoma Relapse or Transformation

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

 So when you do have patients going through therapy, what are the typical side effects? And how do you help them manage those side effects of treatment?

Dr. Kami Maddocks:

Yeah, that’s a great question, and it’s very dependent, because we have so many different treatments now. It’s very dependent on the treatments that the patient’s getting. So things like single-agent antibody therapy with single-agent rituximab (Rituxan), most of the time, the biggest risk of that is the first time a patient can get it, they can have an infusion reaction. That’s managed as it’s happening. And then they tolerate that, in general, fairly well. That does wipe out the lymphocytes, as most of the treatments do, and puts patients at increased risk of infections, particularly viral infections for a period of time.

Chemotherapy, the most common chemo that we give for follicular lymphoma, I would say nausea, fatigue, and an increased risk of infection are kind of the bigger things. Bendamustine (Treanda) is a commonly used chemotherapy for follicular lymphoma, and that’s some of the big side effects from that.

Lenalidomide (Revlimid), the oral pill, so cytopenias infection, GI toxicity and rash are potentially the more common side effects of that. Less common, but we’re always concerned about blood clots, so most patients will take either an aspirin or a blood thinner, depending on their clot history when they’re on lenalidomide. The bispecific antibodies have a particular risk called cytokine release syndrome, so that immune systems activated, but it can almost get overactivated.

The most common symptom of that is fever, and so patients are counseled very closely on that. But activation of the immune system with that fever can also include changes in blood pressure or the need for some oxygen. Some of the CAR T-cell therapy has the same risk of the cytokine release, also has potential neuro side effects. And then longer term is just how long the patients’ immune systems take to recover. There can be risk for infections.

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What Follicular Lymphoma Treatments Are Available?

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What Follicular Lymphoma Treatments Are Available? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Follicular lymphoma patients have different treatment options, but what should patients know about them? Expert Dr. Sameh Gaballa shares an overview of available treatment options and research results of treatment versus watch and wait. 

Dr. Sameh Gaballa is a hematologist/oncologist specializing in treating lymphoid malignancies from Moffitt Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Gaballa.

See More from START HERE Follicular Lymphoma

Related Resources:

What Exactly is Follicular Lymphoma? An Expert Explains

What Exactly is Follicular Lymphoma? An Expert Explains

 Follicular Lymphoma Patient Expert Q&A: Start Here

Follicular Lymphoma Patient Expert Q&A: Start Here

 Newly Diagnosed with Follicular Lymphoma? Start Here

Newly Diagnosed with Follicular Lymphoma? Start Here

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So, can you speak to the novel pathways and targets that are currently under investigation in follicular lymphoma? And what are the most important highlights to point out to patients and families?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa: 

Yeah, absolutely. So you have to remember, number one, not all patients with follicular lymphoma have to be treated. A fair number of patients can be safely observed initially, because the…so when I was talking about the types of lymphoma, so the aggressive lymphomas, those ones are treatable, but curable, meaning you treat it, goes away, good chance that it goes away and does not come back.

Whereas follicular lymphoma, those are slow-growing lymphomas. They may or may not cause problems. The treatment though, they’re very treatable. There are a lot of treatments available, but the thing is they’re not curable, meaning that they go into remission, they could stay in remission for years, but then eventually they would come back again. So you have to remember that because of that, large trials were done previously where patients who had no symptoms and not a lot of disease, they were randomized, half would get treated.

The other half were on a watch and wait. And the patients who, survival is exactly the same in both groups, there was not really any advantage to early treatment versus treatment as if there’s a reason in the future. And we typically have some indications where we decide, okay, well, it’s time to treat. And those basically have to do if the lymph nodes are big enough or they’re close to an important structure and we don’t want them to grow more and maybe press on an important structure, or if they’re causing some kind of symptom or they’re causing anemia or low platelets. I mean, there has to be one, because there has to be one reason for why you’re trying to treat that patient, because you’re basically trying to fix a problem.

So if there’s no problem initially, it doesn’t make sense to treat it. Now, there are lots of available treatments, it could be only immune therapy, something like rituximab (Rituxan)  or obinutuzumab (Gazyva); these are antibody treatments. There are also combinations with chemotherapies, like bendamustine (Treanda), rituximab for if we have relatively bulky disease. There are options as well that do not involve chemotherapy.

So something like pills like lenalidomide (Revlimid) combined with rituximab, those are also options that can be used in follicular lymphoma. But over the last few years, there have been a lot of changes in follicular lymphoma and a lot of novel targets and a lot of novel treatments available. So, for example, a few years ago now, we’ve had CAR T-cell therapy approved. Right now, we have two products approved, axi-cel and tisagenlecleucel (Kymriah). There’s also data that was presented with liso-cel in follicular lymphoma. So hopefully we might see an approval for that as well. So that’s one class.

There’s also bispecific antibodies, and it’s very exciting times. We had the first bispecific antibody approved in the United States in December of 2022. That’s mosunetuzumab-axgb (Lunsumio). So what is a BiTE antibody? These basically are advanced types of immune therapies where you give the patient an antibody that has two ends to it, one end sticks to the cancer cell, the other end sticks to your immune cells. So it’s basically handholding your own immune cells or your own T cells to go and get attached to the cancer cell and kill it, not chemotherapy. It, of course, can have some immunological side effects like fevers or inflammation initially when it’s done, typically when in the first cycle or second cycle.

But something called cytokine release syndrome rarely can cause neurological toxicity. That’s also very transient usually, and very rare with bispecific antibodies. But those are two up and coming treatments. Right now, they’re approved in patients who’ve had relapsed/refractory disease, meaning they’ve had two or more lines of previous therapies, but they’re…we have them now in trials where we’re looking at those agents in earlier lines of therapy. There are other agents as well.

A few years ago, we had tazemetostat (Tazverik) approved, which is a pill that targets an enzyme in the cells called EZH2 and they basically, this pill tries to ask the cancer cell to differentiate, rather than get stuck and not die. So they differentiate and then they eventually die, so that’s another class of medicine. And we’ve now seen some data with BTK inhibitors. There’s been data presented from the ROSEWOOD Study with zanubrutinib plus obinutuzumab (Brukinsa plus Gazyva); it’s not yet FDA-approved, but the data looks interesting and certainly needs to be looked at further. 

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Follicular Lymphoma Patient Expert Q&A: Start Here

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Follicular Lymphoma Patient Expert Q&A: Start Here from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

The START HERE program bridges lymphoma expert and patient voice, whether you are newly diagnosed, in active treatment or in watch and wait. In this webinar, Dr. Sameh Gaballa provides an overview of the latest in follicular lymphoma, emerging therapies, clinical trials and options for follicular lymphoma progression and recurrence.

Dr. Sameh Gaballa is a hematologist/oncologist specializing in treating lymphoid malignancies from Moffitt Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Gaballa.

Download Resource Guide  |  Descargar guía de recursos

See More from START HERE Follicular Lymphoma

Related Resources:

What Exactly is Follicular Lymphoma? An Expert Explains

What Exactly is Follicular Lymphoma? An Expert Explains

 What Follicular Lymphoma Treatments Are Available?

 Newly Diagnosed with Follicular Lymphoma? Start Here

Newly Diagnosed with Follicular Lymphoma? Start Here

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield: 

Welcome to the START HERE Patient Empowerment Network Program. This program bridges the expert and patient voice enabling patients and care partners to feel comfortable asking questions of their healthcare team.  Joining me today is Dr. Sameh Gaballa, an oncologist hematologist from Moffitt Cancer Center. Dr. Gaballa’s clinical interests are treating patients with lymphoid malignancies. His research focuses on developing novel targeted agents for treating patients with indolent lymphomas, such as follicular lymphoma, marginal zone lymphoma, and lymphoplasmacytic lymphomas. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Gaballa.

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Thank you, Lisa. Happy to be here.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. The world is complicated, but understanding your follicular lymphoma diagnosis and treatment options doesn’t have to be. The goal of START HERE is to create actionable pathways for getting the most out of follicular lymphoma treatment and survivorship. 

Before we get started, please remember to download the program resource guide via the QR code. There’s great information there that will be useful during this program and after. So let’s get started. So, Dr. Gaballa, I’d like to talk about what’s on the follicular lymphoma treatment radar. There’s a lot going on in terms of emerging treatment options, clinical trial data, and other learnings for the follicular lymphoma community.  But before we jump into how the armamentarium is expanding, can you provide an explanation of what follicular lymphoma is?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah, absolutely, thank you, Lisa. So, follicular lymphoma is a type of B-cell non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. What does that mean? It’s basically, so in your body, there are cells that are part of the immune system; these are lymphocytes. These cells normally, their normal function, is to fight infection, they’re part of your immune system. They actually are involved also with fighting cancers, but sometimes they become malignant. But not all lymphomas are the same. Lymphomas are a huge family. So there’s Hodgkin’s lymphoma, there is non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. Within non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, there is a type called B-cell non-Hodgkin’s and there’s a T-cell non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. And then within B-cell non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, there are two big groups. So one group, they are these aggressive lymphomas that grow quickly, they can make you sick quickly, and these lymphomas we have to treat right away.

And then you have those slow-growing indolent lymphomas that are sometimes very commonly actually diagnosed by chance, or incidentally, that’s usually the most common way these are diagnosed.  And the most common slow-growing indolent lymphoma is going to be follicular lymphoma. Now, where do you find these lymphomas? It’s a blood disease. So, again, we said that those cells are normally borne in the bone marrow, they are in the blood, they’re in the lymph nodes, they’re in the spleen. So usually you would find those malignant cells usually in the lymph nodes, but you could also find them sometimes in the spleen or in the blood or in the bone marrow as well. And the symptoms they cause will be dependent on where they are and how big the, those, the involvement is.

Lisa Hatfield:

Well, thank you for that detailed overview, Dr. Gaballa. We do have follicular lymphoma patients and care partners who are newly diagnosed, in active treatment, watching and waiting, and also living with their disease joining this program. No matter where you are on your journey, START HERE provides easy-to-understand, reliable, and digestible information to help you make informed decisions. Dr. Gaballa, we’re going to dive right into things with a high-level update. So, can you speak to the novel pathways and targets that are currently under investigation in follicular lymphoma? And what are the most important highlights to point out to patients and families?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah, absolutely. So you have to remember, number one, not all patients with follicular lymphoma have to be treated. A fair number of patients can be safely observed initially, because the…so when I was talking about the types of lymphoma, so the aggressive lymphomas, those ones are treatable, but curable, meaning you treat it, goes away, good chance that it goes away and does not come back. Whereas follicular lymphoma, those are slow-growing lymphomas. They may or may not cause problems. The treatment though, they’re very treatable. There are a lot of treatments available, but the thing is they’re not curable, meaning that they go into remission, they could stay in remission for years, but then eventually they would come back again. So you have to remember that because of that, large trials were done previously where patients who had no symptoms and not a lot of disease, they were randomized, half would get treated.

The other half were on a watch and wait. And the patients who, survival is exactly the same in both groups, there was not really any advantage to early treatment versus treatment as if there’s a reason in the future. And we typically have some indications where we decide, okay, well, it’s time to treat. And those basically have to do if the lymph nodes are big enough or they’re close to an important structure and we don’t want them to grow more and maybe press on an important structure, or if they’re causing some kind of symptom or they’re causing anemia or low platelets. I mean, there has to be one, because there has to be one reason for why you’re trying to treat that patient, because you’re basically trying to fix a problem.

So if there’s no problem initially, it doesn’t make sense to treat it. Now, there are lots of available treatments, it could be only immune therapy, something like rituximab (Rituxan)  or obinutuzumab (Gazyva); these are antibody treatments. There are also combinations with chemotherapies, like bendamustine (Treanda), rituximab for if we have relatively bulky disease. There are options as well that do not involve chemotherapy.

So something like pills like lenalidomide (Revlimid) combined with rituximab, those are also options that can be used in follicular lymphoma. But over the last few years, there have been a lot of changes in follicular lymphoma and a lot of novel targets and a lot of novel treatments available. So, for example, a few years ago now, we’ve had CAR T-cell therapy approved. Right now, we have two products approved, axi-cel and tisagenlecleucel (Kymriah). There’s also data that was presented with liso-cel in follicular lymphoma. So hopefully we might see an approval for that as well. So that’s one class.

There’s also bispecific antibodies, and it’s very exciting times. We had the first bispecific antibody approved in the United States in December of 2022. That’s mosunetuzumab (Lunsumio). So what is a BiTE antibody? These basically are advanced types of immune therapies where you give the patient an antibody that has two ends to it, one end sticks to the cancer cell, the other end sticks to your immune cells. So it’s basically , it’s handholding your own immune cells or your own T cells to go and get attached to the cancer cell and kill it, not chemotherapy. It, of course, can have some immunological side effects like fevers or inflammation initially when it’s done, typically when in the first cycle or second cycle.

But something called cytokine release syndrome rarely can cause neurological toxicity. That’s also very transient usually, and very rare with bispecific antibodies. But those are two up and coming treatments. Right now, they’re approved in patients who’ve had relapsed/refractory disease, meaning they’ve had two or more lines of previous therapies, but they’re…we have them now in trials where we’re looking at those agents in earlier lines of therapy. There are other agents as well.

A few years ago we had tazemetostat (Tazverik) approved, which is a pill that targets an enzyme in the cells called EZH2 and they basically, this pill tries to ask the cancer cell to differentiate, rather than get stuck and not die. So they differentiate and then they eventually die, so that’s another class of medicine. And we’ve now seen some data with BTK inhibitors. There’s been data presented from the ROSEWOOD Study with zanubrutinib plus obinutuzumab (Brukinsa plus Gazyva); it’s not yet FDA-approved, but the data looks interesting and certainly needs to be looked at further.

Lisa Hatfield:

Well, thank you for that overview. It seems like as a blood cancer patient myself, it seems like a hopeful time for patients with the treatments that are kind of on the horizon or are in clinical trials right now. So thank you for that.

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Absolutely.

Lisa Hatfield:

So it’s that time now where we answer questions, some of which we’ve received from you, the patients watching this. Remember, as patients, we should always feel empowered to ask our healthcare providers any and all questions we might have about our treatment and prognosis. Please remember, however, that this program is not a substitute for medical care. Always consult with your medical team.  So, Dr. Gaballa, let’s start here. How do you explain follicular lymphoma treatment options and prognosis to your newly diagnosed patients? And what does shared decision-making look like in your office?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Oh, absolutely. So follicular lymphoma, you really have to explain to the patient what, how are we coming to the recommendation that we’re currently giving. So if we think this is, this patient is a good candidate for a watch-and-wait approach, for example, we really have to walk them through why that really is the best option and not why should we jump on treatments and vice versa, if we think this patient needs to be treated, how do we really…the patient really has to understand all the other treatment options and why this needs to be treated. Because a lot of patients initially, sometimes when you present them with a watch-and-wait approach, if they don’t know all the background, they might not feel very comfortable because they might think, “Well, I have this cancer in me, and we’re not doing anything about it, and that doesn’t really sound too…something I should be doing.”

But then when you explain to them, “Well, you see, you don’t have a lot of disease, those studies have already been done in the past where patients who were treated or not treated, the survival was the same, so there, you might get side effects from the treatment, but not necessarily have benefits. And in the future, should this need to be treated, we have a lot of things to do.” So, really, so this is kind of the shared decision portion where you just have to walk the patients through why that will be the best situation. There is data with single-agent rituximab, even in patients who are asymptomatic, and we have the UK data, and that’s an option.

And that is also offered to some of the patients, even if they’re not symptomatic and they don’t have a lot of disease, if that’s what really the patient wants, if they’re not really comfortable with a watch and wait. And there’s again some data to help justify that. Again, there’s no advantage in overall survival, but sometimes the patients would kind of feel more in control. They feel like, “Okay, I did something about it.” So that’s the shared approach.

In terms of your other question about prognosis, unfortunately that’s an area of an unmet need. I mean, we have some tools to help us differentiate follicular lymphoma patients from each other, which patient is high-risk, meaning those are the patients who might relapse quickly, or they might not respond well to treatments. Unfortunately, we don’t have great tools. We have something called a FLIPI score, which is, we use a number of parameters including clinical parameters like stage or age and some other parameters as well, and we have a scoring system. But it doesn’t 100 percent predict if this is going to be a high-risk follicular lymphoma or a low-risk.

Unfortunately, the best predictor of prognosis for follicular lymphoma, you would know about retrospectively,  it’s something called POD24, progression of disease in 24 months. Meaning that if you have a patient who’s treated with chemotherapy and immune therapy, and then they go into remission, and then they relapse again in less than 24 months, progression of disease within 24 months, those are the, those represent about 20 percent of follicular   lymphoma patients, and those represent a high-risk group of patients. That’s the best tool that we have. But unfortunately, if you’re diagnosed today, you’re not going to know if you’re in this group or not until you actually need to be treated and not just treated with immune therapy.

It has to be with chemotherapy as well. And then if you relapse within two years, then we know that this is a high-risk entity. There is genetic testing, there is something called a FLIPI-m7 scoring system. But again, these tools are not great to tease out the low risk from the high-risk follicular lymphoma patients. But 80 percent of patients who are not going to be POD24, meaning that they get treated, they’re in remission for two years or more, and actually those patients have very similar survival to the general population. So, yeah, so a lot of times we don’t know right away, but we do have some tools to kind of give us an idea.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great. Thank you for that information. It’s kind of hard for cancer patients to only know what their prognosis is retrospectively, but that’s a great explanation. Thank you. Okay, another patient question, “How does the staging of follicular lymphoma impact treatment choices?”

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah, so as you saw, I didn’t really stress too much about staging, because it’s a blood disease. So the vast majority of patients are going to be what we call stage III to IV disease. So, obviously when you see a patient if if they, they might think that, “Oh my God, I have a stage III to IV cancer,” because that’s really what they’re familiar with. But follicular lymphoma is a blood disease, so by default it’s going to be in a lot of lymph nodes, it might be in the bone marrow as well, but stage III to IV disease follicular lymphoma doesn’t, that does not mean that this is a terminal cancer. Patients could live completely in normal life, even with a stage III to IV follicular lymphoma. This is not like a breast cancer or colon cancer where stage is everything.

But why do we have a staging system? Obviously, there’s a need to have staging system for all cancers, but clinically, the only time it makes a difference is there’s a small group of patients who have a truly stage I or II disease, meaning just one group of lymph nodes on one side of the diaphragm that may fit within one radiation field. So if you have someone who’s just coming in with one or a few groups of lymph nodes all in one place, we call that a stage I or II follicular lymphoma, not common, because again, most patients are stage III to IV. The only difference there is you can potentially offer those patients radiation therapy if it’s truly localized, but then you would need to do a bone marrow biopsy and confirm that it’s not in the bone marrow.

And if it is localized within one radiation field, that can be offered and we can sometimes give after radiation therapy, either observe it or consider giving rituximab afterwards. But that’s the only time where we’re going to mention staging, again, uncommon because most, the vast majority of patients are going to be stage III to IV. So why would we do that? Why would we irradiate if it’s only one group of lymph nodes? Because there’s about, I mean, if you irradiated, those lymph nodes will go away, but there’s about maybe a, it’s different. The number is different between studies, but about maybe a third of patients, if you irradiate that group of lymph nodes or one lymph node, it actually might not come again in the future. So you might have very long remissions/possible cure if you…and this is the only situation where we would consider treating someone who does not have symptoms, because you could have very long remissions with radiation.

Lisa Hatfield:

Although follicular lymphoma is a slow-growing cancer, can you speak to the signs that the disease is progressing in the body, what signs that patients might want to look out for?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah, absolutely. So, typically we educate the patients to there are some red flags to look out for, not just for progression,but also for another condition called disease transformation. So, follicular lymphoma does have a, there is a possibility that it can transform from a slow-growing lymphoma to an aggressive lymphoma. Now, this happens at a rate of about maybe 2 to 3 percent per year, but it’s a cumulative risk, so meaning if a patient lives many, many decades, their lifetime risk can be up to as high as 20, 25 percent, 30 percent, depending on the different literature, so there is a chance that these slow-growing lymphomas can transform to an aggressive lymphoma.

And when they do know this, there’s no watch and wait for transformed disease. It has to be treated with chemo immunotherapy because the goal of treatment then is to try to get rid of the aggressive component. What are the signs and symptoms to suggest that you might have transformed disease? This is not something that the patient would typically need to look out for. I tell my patients that, “You don’t need to see, do I have transformed disease or not. This is going to come, and you’re going to know when you have transformed disease. Extreme fatigue, drenching night sweats, the fever sometimes that are not going away.”

The patient might have pain if the lymph node is pressing on some important structure. They may have loss of appetite, loss of weight. So again, something that dramatically happens quickly over a few weeks of time. So if the patient feels sick for one reason or another and they’re not getting better, it can all happen within a few weeks’ time frame. This is the time to get checked early on and go see your oncologist, because then we might need to investigate if there is any potential for transformation. So that’s issue number one.

Issue number two is, which is the much more common scenario, which is the follicular lymphoma is slowly progressing. How would you know? I mean, if you notice a lymph node that in your neck or under the armpits or the groin areas, if they’re growing, then that needs to be evaluated. I mean the patients should expect that those will be growing, they will grow. But they grow over months and years. They don’t grow over weeks.

So anytime you kind of are unsure, if you feel that it’s growing faster than usual, this is, again, something to look out for. And then the B symptoms that I mentioned. So like the sweats, the fevers, the weight, loss of weight, loss of appetite, these are also sometimes things to look out for. Not necessarily, they don’t always mean that it’s transformed disease. It can also be that the follicular lymphoma is also progressing and might need to be treated as well.

Lisa Hatfield:

And then just a quick follow-up to that question. So a patient is watching out for these red flags, but are they going through any kind of regular monitoring in your office? Are you meeting with them on a regular basis? And how frequent might that be for a follicular lymphoma patient who’s watching and waiting?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah. So how does watch and wait look? So, and I tell patients always watch and wait does not mean ignore. Watch and wait means that we’re monitoring the disease, we’re looking at it. How do we do that? So typically we would see the patient maybe every three to six months. And then depending on how do we, when we get a sense or tempo of how their disease is progressing, then we’ll know how often we need to see them. I’ve had, I still have patients where I’m seeing them every three months. And I also have some patients where the disease has been stable for years, I only see them once a year.

In terms of imaging, that’s also sometimes an area of controversy. Typically, initially for the first maybe year or two years, I do like a scan, like a CT scan every six months, just to get a sense of how quick or how slow the disease is progressing. If there’s absolutely no change at all, then sometimes we either don’t do scans and just go by the patient’s symptoms and blood work and physical exam, or we do maybe once a year scan but not more than that. So this is how we would monitor the patients in a watch-and-wait approach.

Lisa Hatfield:

And we have another question about treatment profiles, “What can I do to reduce side effects during active treatment?”

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

So it depends on what the treatment that you’re getting. If it’s immune therapy, like rituximab alone, those typically don’t really have a lot of side effects. I mean, sometimes with the first one or two treatments, you might get an allergic reaction, an infusion allergic reaction, which is very common, but subsequently it shouldn’t really cause a lot of side effects. If the patient is getting chemotherapy, well, it depends on which chemotherapy they’re getting. But in general, it’s always good to stay hydrated and to stay physically active. So if the patient goes in with a healthy body, well-hydrated, you eat fresh fruits and vegetables, walking 30 to 60 minutes a day, your body is going to handle the side effects much better than if you’re going in, you’re very weak, and your general health is not adequate.

Lisa Hatfield:

Another patient is asking if you can speak to emerging treatment options for patients with relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah. So the field of follicular lymphoma is changing rapidly. I always tell patients that sometimes the best treatment is actually on a clinical trial because those are going to be the next generation of treatments that are going to get approved in the next few years. But right now we have the most effective therapy really is CAR T-cell therapy. CAR T-cell therapy by far is the most effective treatment we have at this time. It’s approved for patients who have had two or more lines of prior therapies. We also are investigating this.

I actually have a trial here at Moffitt where we’re looking at CAR T-cell therapy as early as in the second line, in patients who have what we call the high-risk ones, the POD24. So a patient with POD24 follicular lymphoma relapsed in less than two years. We have a trial to investigate the role of CAR T-cell therapy in this setting. The other very promising group of treatments, again, is bispecific antibodies, again, currently approved in the third line, mosunetuzumab.

But there are others coming up and have data on epcoritamab-bysp (Epkinly), as well as a lot of other bispecifics, as well as combinations. I mean, epcoritamab-bysp has also data presented with combination with lenalidomide. And right now, the follow-up duration is not very long, but so far, it looks extremely promising with very high response rates. So those also might be coming very soon. And, of course, once something works in the relapsed/refractory setting, we start looking at earlier lines of therapy.

And actually, we’re now looking at trials in the first-line setting with some of these agents as well. Tazemetostat is a pill. It’s also approved in the third-line setting, but we’re also investigating it. We have a trial here where we’re looking at combining it with standard rituximab, lenalidomide, so tazemetostat plus rituximab, lenalidomide as early as in the second line. So that also is interesting. And as I mentioned before, BTK inhibitors currently being looked at in trials might also have a role in follicular lymphoma very soon.

Lisa Hatfield:

And this patient is asking about the significance of bispecific antibody treatment. And you touched on that a little bit. It looks like she’s also asking if there are specific genetic or molecular markers that can predict a patient’s response. And if I try to translate that, maybe she might be asking about targeted therapy.

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah, so bispecific antibodies and CAR T-cell therapy, they target something called CD, either CD19 or CD20, and that’s almost universally expressed on B cells. So most of your follicular lymphoma patients are going to be expressing CD19 or CD20. Tazemetostat is the pill that I talked about.  It inhibits an enzyme called EZH2. Some patients have an EZH2 mutation where it seems to work very well. However, tazemetostat also works in patients who don’t have that mutation. So that’s why it’s not very important to check for the mutation.

It seems maybe it works better in patients who do have the mutation, but it does work as well in patients who do not have that mutation. So unlike other malignancies and other cancers, biomarkers are not yet driving a lot of our treatment decisions in follicular lymphoma as of right now.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. Another question. Is it common for follicular lymphoma to transform into a more aggressive type of lymphoma? And how would that change a treatment plan? And maybe how common is it for that to happen?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah. There’s about a 2 to 3 percent chance per year that the slow-growing lymphoma can transform to an aggressive lymphoma. That, if it does transform, I mean we talked about the symptoms and signs, you get sick quickly, rapidly enlarging lymph nodes, loss of weight, loss of appetite, drenching night sweats. No, a transformation, typically we would do a PET scan, see what’s the most active lymph node, try to get a biopsy from that and confirm there is a large cell transformation. Now, that’s a completely different disease, it needs to be treated completely differently, typically with chemoimmunotherapy.

Something like R-CHOP, for example, is one of the most common regimens we use in this scenario. And the goal of treatment here is to try to get rid of the aggressive lymphoma component here so that it does not recur again. I mentioned it’s about a 2 to 3 percent per year, but it depends on how long the patient lives. So if they live many, many, many decades, their lifetime risk is anywhere between 20 to 30 percent max during their lifetime.

Lisa Hatfield:

And As a blood cancer patient myself, this is a great question this patient is asking, “Is there a risk of secondary cancers after receiving treatment for follicular lymphoma?”

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

So that’s always a concern, and it depends on what treatment they had. So chemotherapy that can potentially damage DNA can lead to second malignancies, including things like acute leukemia. Luckily, that’s not a high risk. That’s a rare side effect from some of those chemotherapies. Some of the pills can do that as well. Something like lenalidomide can sometimes have second malignancies. But we’re talking about rare incidences, and the benefits usually would outweigh the risks. But it’s not with all treatments, meaning some of the other immune therapies that do not involve chemotherapy would not typically be associated with some of those second malignancies. So it just really depends on what exactly the treatment you’re getting.

Lisa Hatfield:

Can you speak to maintenance therapy and monitoring in follicular lymphoma? And what signs of infection should patients and care partners be aware of during treatment?

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

Yeah, so there have been randomized studies in slow-growing lymphomas that show that if you do, after you get your standard treatment for follicular lymphoma, if you do what we call a maintenance treatment, usually with rituximab, which is an immune therapy, where you do it every two to three months for about two years, we have data showing that that decreases or delays the risk of relapse. However, it doesn’t change the overall survival, meaning that it just has patients in remission longer. When their disease comes back, they just get treated again at that point, and it doesn’t really affect survival.

So it’s one of those shared decision-making with the patients. I usually go over the risks and benefits of maintenance therapy. It’s optional. It’s not a must. During COVID, we pretty much stopped all maintenance treatments, because the risks were outweighing the benefits because maintenance treatment is…will suppress the immune system more, is associated with more infections. And these infections can be anything. I mean, it could be a pneumonia, could be recurrent urinary infections. It could be any type of infection. So there’s always this risk and benefit that we have to discuss with the patient.

Lisa Hatfield:

Well, Dr. Gaballa, thank you so much for being part of this Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program. It’s these conversations that help patients truly empower themselves along their treatment journey. And on behalf of patients like myself and those watching, thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Gaballa.

Dr. Sameh Gaballa:

No, thank you, Lisa. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Lisa Hatfield:

I’m Lisa Hatfield. Thank you for joining this Patient Empowerment Network program.

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An Expert’s Perspective on Emerging Follicular Lymphoma Research

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An Expert’s Perspective on Emerging Follicular Lymphoma Research from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What’s the latest on emerging follicular lymphoma research? Dr. Jane Winter shares how follicular lymphoma treatment has advanced and provides an overview of treatment options.

Dr. Jane Winter is a hematologist and medical oncologist at Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center at Northwestern University. More information on Dr. Winter here.

See More from The Pro-Active Follicular Lymphoma Patient Toolkit

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Transcript:

Laura Beth:

Dr. Winter, is there emerging follicular lymphoma research that you are excited about?   

Dr. Winter:

So, first of all, I think it’s very important to underscore the fact that for a newly diagnosed patient with follicular lymphoma today, survival is measured in decades with an “S,” so, 10, 20-plus years. And that’s based on data that’s already becoming outdated such that it’s the likelihood with some of the newer treatment options is there’s never been a more exciting time, I often say, to be a hematologist because of all the exciting new tools we have to our trade.  

So, lots of new treatments. But, even with the old treatments, and I mean rituximab-based treatments, the outcome is excellent. We have new treatments. We have all kinds of new treatments these days for follicular lymphoma such that it’s a veritable buffet of treatment options to choose from. Nonetheless, often times the first treatment is just either a monoclonal antibody, meaning rituximab, an anti-CD20, which is a protein or marker on the surface of the lymphoma cell. This is immunotherapy, been around now for 30 years and approved for 22 years for the treatment of follicular lymphoma as well as other B-cell lymphomas.  

Other therapies that are typically used frontline include rituximab plus chemotherapy, most commonly a drug called bendamustine, which wasn’t always available, was something that was being developed in East Germany that came to the attention of the Europeans and North Americans only after German unification. And, this has become, along with Rituxan, one of the most commonly used first-line treatments for follicular lymphoma. Other options include a combination of Rituxan and an oral medication called lenalidomide (Revlimid), and this is given three weeks in a row out of every four weeks with Rituxan. Again, this anti-CD20 immunotherapy or antibody. 

And, it’s a very effective but requires some monitoring of blood counts and so on, so it is perhaps not as commonly used as Rituxan and bendamustine as a first-line therapy. But, there are so many additional new options that are either approved or coming along for all of our B-cell lymphomas, and they include many new what we call “targeted agents” as well as immunotherapy including a very new therapy called CAR T-cell therapy. But, one thing I just wanted to say, in addition to the very long anticipated survival of newly diagnosed patients today, it’s really only a small fraction of patients who get into trouble with follicular lymphoma, at least in the short term.  

Expert Perspective: Advances in Treating Relapsed and Refractory Myeloma

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Expert Perspective: Advances in Treating Relapsed and Refractory Myeloma from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Dr. Abdullah Khan, of Ohio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center – The James, reviews currently available treatments as well as those in development for patients with relapsed or refractory myeloma. 

Dr. Abdullah Khan is a hematologist specializing in multiple myeloma and plasma cell disorders at the Ohio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center – The James. Dr. Khan is also an assistant professor in the Division of Hematology at The Ohio State University. Learn more about Dr. Khan.

See More from Engaging in Myeloma Treatment Decisions

 

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How Does Disease Staging Affect Myeloma Treatment Choices?

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 Relapsed and Refractory Myeloma Defined

Transcript:

Katherine:

Are there any recent advances in treatment for patients with relapsed or refractory disease?  

Dr. Khan:

Currently and in the past 20 years or so, we’ve seen about 20 approvals for new drugs for patients with multiple myeloma. The way the approval process works it typically looks at the effectiveness of a drug in the relapsed refractory setting first. And after establishing the safety and efficacy, the therapies are moved earlier in the disease course.   

The great example of this are the anti-CD38 monoclonal antibodies daratumumab and isatuximab. They were first approved in the relapsed refractory setting in combination with other antimyeloma treatments. And due to their impressive effectiveness and relative safety, they’re already being used in the frontline setting for patients with newly diagnosed multiple myeloma.   

In the newly diagnosed setting, a commonly cited study is the phase two GRIFFIN trial. And that added daratumumab to the BRd, or bendamustine (Bendeka, Treanda), lenalidomide (Revlimid), dexamethasone backbone.  

And Europe, they completed the phase three study of adding isatuximab, the other anti-CD38 monoclonal antibody to the BRd backbone. And what we’re finding what was very effective in the relapsed refractory setting was actually adding to the efficacy of newly diagnosed treatment regiments. As a side note, these trials – there are also trials looking at daratumumab and isatuximab in the smoldering myeloma phase, so moving it even earlier.  

I think one of the most attractive new targets in myeloma is targeting this antigen called B-cell maturing antigen, and a number of therapies are being developed or are already developed for it. The first approved was belantamab mafodotin, and this is an antibody drug conjugate. 

So, when the antibody binds to BCMA on the multiple myeloma cells, it releases its toxic payload into the myeloma cell. And so, it’s very effective towards myeloma, and no other good cells or fewer other good cells are affected by it. To provide some numbers, in patients with a median of seven prior lines of treatments, meaning their myeloma had relapsed that many times, the response rate was about 30 percent. And a fifth of those patients had VGPR, very good partial response, or better response.  

There are also bispecific antibodies that target this myeloma marker, and we anticipate getting one approved soon in the U.S. called teclistamab. Teclistamab is an antibody that binds both CD3 on T cells of the immune system and B-cell maturating BCMA on the myeloma cells. 

So, the way this antibody kills myeloma is by activating the T cells, the immune system, and directly killing the tumor. So, this was recently published in the New England Journal of Medicine. And in people who were treated with at least five prior lines of therapy, the response rate was about 63 percent, and the median progression-free survival, or the time until the myeloma progressed, was about 11 months.  

We were very active in a clinical trial looking at the effectiveness of another antibody, a bispecific antibody, called Regeneron 5458. In a similar patient population, the response rates were 75 percent in the higher-dose level group, and right now it’s actually a bit too early to tell how long the progression free survival is or the duration of response. 

There are also other bispecifics in development targeting other myeloma markers ssuch as talquetamab, that binds to a marker called GPRC5D, and cevostamab, which binds to a marker called FcRH5. The response rates as single agents in patients with relapsed refractory multiple myeloma are 66 percent and 45 percent respectively. These are all incredible numbers for a single drug in the relapsed refractory setting.