Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Care Gaps | Effective Strategies to Improve Care

MPN experts Dr. Akriti Jain from Cleveland Clinic and Kimberly Smith from Duke Health discuss effective strategies to improve MPN care including how patient diagnosis and symptoms can vary, best practices for shared decision-making, patient-provider communication, and family support. 

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MPN Care Barriers | Gaps in Patient-Centered Care

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MPN Treatment Barriers | Impacts and Solutions for Healthcare Providers

What Are Key Challenges and Potential Solutions In MPN Management?

What Are Key Challenges and Potential Solutions In MPN Management?


Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

We’re going to talk about strategies for closing the gaps in myeloproliferative neoplasm care. So I’m going to go to you first, Dr. Jain, can you describe the most effective strategies, including your own best practices that can address gaps in care for patients facing a myeloproliferative neoplasm?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Yes. So again, coming back to empowering our patient and leading to that shared medical decision-making. So different patients present differently, not using that one-size-fits-all philosophy, depending on what their symptoms are, what their diagnosis is tailoring their treatment. If cytopenias or anemia is a problem, helping them battle that. And different hemoglobins can be different for different patients. So not discounting their symptoms, saying that your hemoglobin is 11, your hemoglobin’s fine, you don’t need any treatment for this right now, maybe they’re used to functioning at a 14.

So shared medical decision-making is very important, because if patients feel like they’re heard, if patients feel like they’re a part of the decision that their healthcare provider made in helping them decide what is best for them, I think that is really important. And it would lead to patients actually adhering to treatment, following up with their healthcare provider, and also better physician-patient relationship, which I think is very important in some of these chronic diseases, where these relationships last for years, right? This is one of the chronic diseases, like a lot of times we’re telling our patients, this is like high blood pressure or diabetes, we have to learn to live with it.

And so they have to be friends with their healthcare provider, otherwise they’re not going to come see you again. So I think empowering the patient, making them a part of this decision of how we’re going to treat them, how we’re going to monitor them, how often should we be doing their labs, is it feasible for them, I think are really important ways to close those gaps and help our patients.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much, Dr. Jain. What about you, Ms. Smith, what thoughts do you have in terms of strategies to address the gaps in care for MPN patients?

Kim Smith: I agree with Dr. Jain, but also bridging the gap between community and tertiary centers. A lot of times, we treat patients in these big centers, and then we send them out to local places to whether they need transfusions or, or to continue care because the distance for them to make it here is just too far. So I think, bridging, collaborating with the outside community hospitals and community centers, and also even the nursing staff, the nursing staff coordinating, just coordinating the care so these patients will know that they are receiving effective care, whether they are at this tertiary center or they’re at their community center, because we all are working as a team to make sure they have everything they need.

And also including the family. Families are important. That was a big thing to me. Like, I want to make sure families knew that they were a part of this team also, because a lot of times it’s the family who is having to deal with the symptom management. They’re the ones who want their family member to go somewhere with them, and they’re just too fatigued to get out, and they don’t understand it, because we’re telling them that this is a chronic disease. They should be able to do some things, but they just can’t. So I think we have to make sure we’re bridging the gap with the families also.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So for you, Dr. Jain, are there specific strategies or maybe one strategy that you have implemented yourself, maybe where you work, that has helped to bridge that gap between tertiary care and the community setting, as an example?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Yeah, that’s a very good point brought up by Ms. Smith. So what I do, because a lot of the patients I see in my clinical practice are second opinions. A lot of these patients I see one time, and maybe I’ll never see them again, or maybe I’ll see them in two years from now when things have changed, and they have more questions, or their provider has more questions.

So what I do is I make sure the patient has my contact number so that they can always reach out if things change. I make sure they have that MyChart set up so that they can always message me if they need me. The next step that I always take is I call their primary oncologist. I make sure they have my cell phone number so that they can call me if things change, if they have any questions. And the third thing I always tell my patients is you can use me however you want to use me.

So, I, a lot of times, would set up virtual visits in three months or in six months. That way, even if they live hours away from us, they can see us the tertiary care center through the comfort of their home. They can get labs locally and see us. They can kind of alternate between their primary oncologist and a tertiary care center, or maybe see us once a year. It’s dependent on how much they feel makes them comfortable seeing us along with their primary oncologist who’s doing most of the heavy lifting, providing the care close to their homes.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

And to circle back to the family part, I’m going to go back to you, Ms. Smith. Is there a strategy that you can share that you and your team implement to really engage with the family members of MPN patients?

Kim Smith:

Yes. So we provide educational materials to the patients. We always ask them to bring a family member with them. If they can’t bring a family member with them, I’m willing to call a family member if they need information after the visit. I always give them the contact numbers that the family member can contact me also. MyChart is a big thing. Make sure they have MyChart because the family reaches out via MyChart also.

Another thing that I do is that I try to make sure that the family also has like the educational material too, because sometimes you can give it to the patient, but they don’t share it. So if a family member comes, if I pass out information to the patient, I pass it out to the family member also. I also provide them with websites that they can use, that they can utilize. Like the Cleveland Clinic is one of them that I have them use a lot, but, but websites that they can use where they can actually look up information on these different MPNs that they may have. So I think the educational piece is the biggest thing that I do with my patients.


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What Are Key Challenges and Potential Solutions In MPN Management?

In MPN management, what are some common challenges and possible solutions? Experts Dr. Akriti Jain from Cleveland Clinic and Kimberly Smith from Duke Health discuss the challenges of practice-related barriers including treatment options and navigating the logistics of treatment access. 

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MPN Care Barriers | Gaps in Patient-Centered Care

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MPN Treatment Barriers | Impacts and Solutions for Healthcare Providers

MPN Treatment Barriers | Impacts and Solutions for Healthcare Providers

Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Care Gaps | Effective Strategies to Improve Care

Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Care Gaps | Effective Strategies to Improve Care


Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Ms. Smith, can you speak to some of the emerging challenges and opportunities in the management of myeloproliferative neoplasms?

Kim Smith:

Well, a lot of the world of MPNs is starting to explode, especially with myelofibrosis. We are getting all these different treatments, these trials running, things hopefully that we will have that could that could change the disease process in these patients. And one of the biggest challenges is, is that where do the patients fit at in this aspect of it? Are we going to be able to actually get patients approved for some of these things or will we have to go with the oldie, but goodie with a lot of these? We still use hydroxyurea (Hydrea) a lot in these MPNs. And so, but we have a lot of other drugs now that we can use.

But because we know that it’s tried and true, and it’s harder to get patients on some of these other drugs, we go with the oldie but goodie. So I think that’s a challenge that we…that we’ll have. And the other thing is too these drugs are expensive. So even if we can get the drug form at our institution or in the community, if we can get them for them, will they be able to afford them? And one thing I can say that I’ve noticed is a lot of the drug companies that we’ve dealt with here that they are really good about helping, is there anything that we can do to kind of help push the process to get patients assistance for these therapies? And so I think that’s one of the biggest challenges that we’ll have with treating them, just this explosion of new therapies coming.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

And you kind of alluded to it when you spoke about hydroxyurea. So I’m going to pose this question to you, Dr. Jain, are there any unforeseen or outdated practice-related barriers or therapeutic inertia that may hinder your work in that of your colleagues?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Yes, definitely. I echo Ms. Smith’s sentiments. I think a lot of times, things that we have already used for years and having familiarity with those treatments sometimes can lead to resistance to accepting new guidelines and treatments. And that can come from, again, not knowing the side effects that these treatments can pose, right? Not having long-term data that these drugs haven’t been, some of them are new, they haven’t been around for years, so we don’t know what they can cause in the future. And that can happen both from the healthcare provider standpoint and also from the patient standpoint. And it can be challenging. And what can help us overcome that is education.

Even though the drugs might not be approved, for example, the newest approval that came around last year was momelotinib (Ojjaara), which is a newer drug for myelofibrosis, can help treat anemia as well. After it was approved, we had patients ask us for that drug for months before we could actually prescribe it. Yes, because FDA approval and then actually being able to prescribe the drug take…it takes some time for these drugs to show up on formularies for pharmacies to start carrying them. And then going back to, even if the drug was approved last year, it doesn’t mean it’s a new drug. It’s being tested and it is being tested in trials for years now. So those are some of the things that I can think of.


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MPN Treatment Barriers | Impacts and Solutions for Healthcare Providers

MPN experts Dr. Akriti Jain from Cleveland Clinic and Kimberly Smith from Duke Health discuss various treatment barriers that healthcare providers may encounter in team-based care and support solutions to help overcome barriers to optimal care.

Download Resource Guide

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MPN Care Barriers | Gaps in Patient-Centered Care

MPN Care Barriers | Gaps in Patient-Centered Care

What Are Key Challenges and Potential Solutions In MPN Management?

What Are Key Challenges and Potential Solutions In MPN Management?

Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Care Gaps | Effective Strategies to Improve Care

Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Care Gaps | Effective Strategies to Improve Care


Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So we’ve been talking about the barriers that patients face, and I want to shift gears a little bit and focus on the healthcare provider. So, Dr. Jain, I’m going to start with you. Can you speak to some of the obstacles or barriers that healthcare providers face when treating MPN patients?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Sure. So being a healthcare provider and doing this, I can tell you all about the barriers we face. I think going back to that team-based care, sometimes it’s easier said than done. Like I said, we need pathology input. A lot of times we need psychology input. Other times, we need cardiology input. Some of these patients are getting blood clots, vascular medicine, so team-based care and coordination within those various physicians and nurse practitioners and social workers that can sometimes become cumbersome requires lots of phone calls.

And so in a lot of places, we try to put together these teams where you have kind of like a go-to person to call when you have questions or concerns. The other thing we always are all short on is time. So it’s easier to talk about these MPN symptoms scores, but when there are 10 questions to ask these patients within those 15 to 30 minute appointments though that’s another barrier sometimes that we face as physicians and as healthcare providers.

The other important, one of the other important parts is management of some of the side effects of these newer therapies. Every patient reacts differently. Every patient has different side effects that they can have. And knowing those and being able to manage them while keeping them on these therapies, which don’t only improve symptoms, but can also sometimes improve survival and improve the natural history of the disease can be difficult to overcome and handle.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you, Dr. Jain. And what about you, Ms. Smith? Can you speak to any additional barriers that healthcare providers face?

Kim Smith:

Unlike Dr. Jain was saying, but one of the barriers that I see that that we face a lot is advocacy groups are great, they’re wonderful, we need them. But a lot of patients look at those groups, and they lump themselves into that group. And so I try to tell patients you are individual. You are individual. You need individualized care. It’s wonderful to look at the advocacy groups. It’s wonderful to follow, and you get some good information, but we also have to look at you as who you are and what we are treating and your symptoms, because your symptoms may not be the symptoms that they have.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

A really good point. And since we’ve talked about these barriers, I’d love to wrap this part of the conversation up by giving solutions. So, Dr. Jain, you mentioned a couple, you talked about having this one number for all of the how healthcare providers to call, if there are questions to kind of help to coordinate care. Are there other solutions that you or Ms. Smith can offer to start to overcome some of these barriers in care?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Sure, yeah. In addition to the multidisciplinary team that we were discussing and having, those people that we can talk to another barrier that I didn’t talk about is a lot of prior auths and having pharmacy support to get some of these medicines that can be really expensive, right? The financial toxicity that can come with some of the medicines that we manage myeloproliferative neoplasms with is hard.

So having pharmacy support is again very important. Having that specialty pharmacy that can help us navigate how to get these medicines to patients quickly and get them in an affordable manner, I think another important part that we always come back to is education. Education of those pharmacists, of patients, of other healthcare providers helping them stay on top of what new drug approvals come through, what Phase III trials are available in the community, what the side effects of these medicines are so that they are empowered to be able to help their patients out in the community and also in tertiary care centers.


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MPN Care Barriers | Gaps in Patient-Centered Care

What are MPN care barriers and solutions? Experts Dr. Akriti Jain from Cleveland Clinic and Kimberly Smith from Duke Health discuss common obstacles MPN patients encounter in patient-centered care, how varied factors play a role in care, and methods and approaches to support patients in empowered care.

Download Resource Guide

See More from EPEP MPNs

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MPN Treatment Barriers | Impacts and Solutions for Healthcare Providers

MPN Treatment Barriers | Impacts and Solutions for Healthcare Providers

What Are Key Challenges and Potential Solutions In MPN Management?

What Are Key Challenges and Potential Solutions In MPN Management?

Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Care Gaps | Effective Strategies to Improve Care

Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Care Gaps | Effective Strategies to Improve Care


Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So I’d like to start off by talking about identifying and overcoming barriers to patient-centered care for patients and families facing a myeloproliferative neoplasm. So, Dr. Jain, I’m going to start with you. What are the most common barriers to implementing patient-centered care in the management of myeloproliferative neoplasms?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Thank you for that question, Dr. Rochester. It’s very pertinent. As you can imagine, there can be a lot of barriers when we are trying to provide patient-centered care, especially in the management of myeloproliferative neoplasms. As you said, there are multiple myeloproliferative neoplasms, and each one of them is complex. And hence the complexity of each diagnosis, how they’re diagnosed, how their risk-stratified, and how those patients are symptomatic based on whether their platelets are high or their hemoglobin is high, or they have scarring or fibrosis in their bone marrow.

Then that in itself becomes complex and can become a problem when we’re seeing these patients in the community. That’s why a lot of these patients get referrals to tertiary care centers, and not all patients can have that opportunity to go to tertiary care centers and see providers that are very knowledgeable and know what…exactly how to diagnose these myeloproliferative neoplasms.

A lot of times it’s very team-based approach. It’s not just the clinician, but also the pathologist. So a lot of times when these patients come to us we have their bone marrow biopsies reviewed because the diagnostic criteria requires certain things in their bone marrow that helps us diagnose these problems. So not just that these MPN are variable, but also individual variability within the MPNs. So not every polycythemia vera patient presents the same way. So that becomes a problem again when providing patient-centered care, because it’s not the one-size-fits-all philosophy. Those are some of the things that I can think of.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Ms. Smith, I know that you share Dr. Jain’s passion with regard to really being compassionate with your patients. So I’d love to get your perspective as a nurse practitioner what are the primary barriers that you’ve witnessed to accessing effective patient-centered care?

Kim Smith:

I would say what I’ve experienced most is the patients actually understanding their disease process, the education piece, like making sure that educating them about their disease, giving them security that, hey, that you have a myeloproliferative neoplasm, but let’s look at it as we’re running a marathon, not a sprint. You know that we have time, you know that we can get family involved. And I think that’s a big thing with me, just try to bridge that barrier that it’s a team effort. It’s not just you. Even though treatment is individualized, it’s still a team. We are a team, so I want you to be comfortable, but I also want to be comfortable with giving you the information and that you are able to receive it. That’s one of the big barriers that I see is them being able to accept their diagnosis.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. Thank you so much Ms. Smith. So, Dr. Jain, I’m going to go back to you and staying on this theme of patient-centered care. Can you talk about some of the gaps in research regarding patient-centered care in MPNs, and how can those gaps be addressed?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Sure. So building off of what Ms. Smith was just saying, education comes, it’s very important also for research. If our patients are educated on the potential options for trials, for retrospective research, for registry research, they are more open to accepting these options for their management, for their treatment. A lot of patients might not know which phase each trial is in, and a lot of patients don’t want to be, “guinea pigs.” So sometimes it’s important for us to educate patients that some of these trials are Phase III trials, and Phase III trials eventually lead to drug approval.

So a lot of the drugs we have for myeloproliferative neoplasms were not available a few years ago. So education is very important here. And lack of education within patients and then also within healthcare providers can be a big gap in getting research to the patients where it is needed. And we’re very thankful to these patients that help us advance research and help us get these drug approvals and enroll in trials. Other important gaps are including patient-reported outcomes. As we all might know within MPNs, we have a really nice MPN symptoms core MPN-SAF, a lot of newer research trials, and other research avenues are including SAFs within the trials. And so these are important things that can help us give patients the prioritized and individualized care they need.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much, Dr. Jain. Ms. Smith, do you have anything to add with regard to gaps in research regarding patient-centered MPN care?

Kim Smith:

Yes. I agree with Dr. Jain, but also another thing that I notice, with these gaps is a lot of patients come to us with other comorbidities, and so they might not qualify for trials or they might have another associated heme malignancy that they might not be able to qualify. So it kind of puts a gap in treatment, because then we have to go with what’s already FDA-approved, and that might not be the best option for the patient at that time.


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HCP Roundtable: Advancing Practice and Enhancing Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Care

In this EPEP program, Dr. Akriti Jain of Cleveland Clinic and Nurse Practitioner Kimberly Smith of Duke Health discuss overcoming practice barriers, navigating emerging challenges, and implementing strategies to close gaps in patient-centered myeloproliferative neoplasm (MPN) care.

Download Resource Guide

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HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients


Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Welcome to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients or EPEP Program. My name is Dr. Nicole Rochester, Founder and CEO of Your GPS Doc. EPEP is a Patient Empowerment Network program that serves as a secure space for healthcare providers to learn techniques for improving physician-patient communication and to overcome practice barriers. 

In this healthcare provider roundtable, we are discussing advancing practice and enhancing myeloproliferative neoplasm care. How can we overcome current challenges to enhance the management and outcomes of myelofibrosis, polycythemia vera, and essential thrombocythemia? What innovative practices are transforming the management of myeloproliferative neoplasms to improve patient outcomes?

Our conversation will look at  gaps in the field and solutions to enhance patient-centric MPN care for improved patient outcomes. We’re going to discuss identifying practice barriers to patient-centered care, navigating emerging challenges and opportunities in management and effective strategies for closing gaps in MPN care. It is my privilege to be joined by Ms. Kimberly Smith of Duke Health. Ms. Smith is a nurse practitioner who provides security and compassion that patients and families need when they get a cancer diagnosis. Thank you so much for joining this EPEP program today, Ms. Smith.

Kim Smith:

Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

It is also my honor to be joined by Dr. Akriti Jain, a hematologist at Cleveland Clinic. Dr. Jain’s passion lies in understanding the needs of every patient and always prioritizing and advocating for her patients and their families. Thank you so much for joining the EPEP program, Dr. Jain.

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Thank you, Dr. Rochester. Happy to be here.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So I’d like to start off by talking about identifying and overcoming barriers to patient-centered care for patients and families facing a myeloproliferative neoplasm. So, Dr. Jain, I’m going to start with you. What are the most common barriers to implementing patient-centered care in the management of myeloproliferative neoplasms?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Thank you for that question, Dr. Rochester. It’s very pertinent. As you can imagine, there can be a lot of barriers when we are trying to provide patient-centered care, especially in the management of myeloproliferative neoplasms. As you said, there are multiple myeloproliferative neoplasms, and each one of them is complex. And hence the complexity of each diagnosis, how they’re diagnosed, how their risk-stratified and how those patients are symptomatic based on whether their platelets are high or their hemoglobin is high, or they have scarring or fibrosis in their bone marrow.

Then that in itself becomes complex and can become a problem when we’re seeing these patients in the community. That’s why a lot of these patients get referrals to tertiary care centers, and not all patients can have that opportunity to go to tertiary care centers and see providers that are very knowledgeable and know what…exactly how to diagnose these myeloproliferative neoplasms.

Dr. Akriti Jain:

A lot of times it’s very team-based approach. It’s not just the clinician, but also the pathologist. So a lot of times when these patients come to us we have their bone marrow biopsies reviewed because the diagnostic criteria requires certain things in their bone marrow that helps us diagnose these problems. So not just that these MPN are variable, but also individual variability within the MPNs. So not every polycythemia vera patient presents the same way. So that becomes a problem again when providing patient-centered care, because it’s not the one-size-fits-all philosophy. Those are some of the things that I can think of.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Ms. Smith, I know that you share Dr. Jain’s passion with regard to really being compassionate with your patients. So I’d love to get your perspective as a nurse practitioner what are the primary barriers that you’ve witnessed to accessing effective patient-centered care?

Kimberly Smith:

I would say what I’ve experienced most is the patients actually understanding their disease process, the education piece, like making sure that educating them about their disease, giving them security that, hey, that you have a myeloproliferative neoplasm, but let’s look at it as we’re running a marathon, not a sprint. You know that we have time, you know that we can get family involved. And I think that’s a big thing with me, just try to bridge that barrier that it’s a team effort. It’s not just you. Even though treatment is individualized, it’s still a team. We are a team, so I want you to be comfortable, but I also want to be comfortable with giving you the information and that you are able to receive it. That’s one of the big barriers that I see is them being able to accept their diagnosis.

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Wonderful. Thank you so much Ms. Smith. So, Dr. Jain, I’m going to go back to you and staying on this theme of patient-centered care. Can you talk about some of the gaps in research regarding patient-centered care in MPNs, and how can those gaps be addressed?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Sure. So building off of what Ms. Smith was just saying, education comes, it’s very important also for research. If our patients are educated on the potential options for trials, for retrospective research, for registry research, they are more open to accepting these options for their management, for their treatment. A lot of patients might not know which phase each trial is in, and a lot of patients don’t want to be, “guinea pigs.”

So sometimes it’s important for us to educate patients that some of these trials are Phase III trials and Phase III trials eventually lead to drug approval. So a lot of the drugs we have for myeloproliferative neoplasms were not available a few years ago. So education is very important here. And lack of education within patients and then also within healthcare providers can be a big gap in getting research to the patients where it is needed.

And we’re very thankful to these patients that help us advance research and help us get these drug approvals and enroll in trials. Other important gaps are including patient-reported outcomes. As we all might know within MPNs, we have a really nice MPN symptoms score MPN-SAF, a lot of newer research trials and other research avenues are including SAFs within the trials. And so these are important things that can help us give patients the prioritized and individualized care they need.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much, Dr. Jain. Ms. Smith, do you have anything to add with regard to gaps in research regarding patient-centered MPN care?

Kimberly Smith:

Yes. I agree with Dr. Jain, but also another thing that I notice, with these gaps is a lot of patients come to us with other comorbidities, and so they might not qualify for trials or they might have another associated heme malignancy that they might not be able to qualify. So it kind of puts a gap in treatment, because then we have to go with what’s already FDA-approved, and that might not be the best option for the patient at that time.

Dr. Nicole Rochester: Thank you for pointing that out. So we’ve been talking about the barriers that patients face, and I want to shift gears a little bit and focus on the healthcare provider. So, Dr. Jain, I’m going to start with you. Can you speak to some of the obstacles or barriers that healthcare providers face when treating MPN patients?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Sure. So being a healthcare provider and doing this, I can tell you all about the barriers we face. I think going back to that team-based care, sometimes it’s easier said than done. Like I said, we need pathology input. A lot of times we need psychology input. Other times, we need cardiology input. Some of these patients are getting blood clots, vascular medicine, so team-based care and coordination within those various physicians and nurse practitioners and social workers that can sometimes become cumbersome requires lots of phone calls.

And so in a lot of places, we try to put together these teams where you have kind of like a go-to person to call when you have questions or concerns. The other thing we always are all short on is time. So it’s easier to talk about these MPN symptom scores, but when there are 10 questions to ask these patients within those 15 to 30 minute appointments though that’s another barrier sometimes that we face as physicians and as healthcare providers.

The other important, one of the other important parts is management of some of the side effects of these newer therapies. Every patient reacts differently. Every patient has different side effects that they can have. And knowing those and being able to manage them while keeping them on these therapies, which don’t only improve symptoms, but can also sometimes improve survival and improve the natural history of the disease can be difficult to overcome and handle.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you, Dr. Jain. And what about you, Ms. Smith? Can you speak to any additional barriers that healthcare providers face?

Kimberly Smith:

Unlike Dr. Jain was saying, but one of the barriers that I see that that we face a lot is advocacy groups are great, they’re wonderful, we need them. But a lot of patients look at those groups, and they lump themselves into that group. And so I try to tell patients you are an individual. You are individual. You need individualized care. It’s wonderful to look at the advocacy groups. It’s wonderful to follow, and you get some good information, but we also have to look at you as who you are and what we are treating and your symptoms, because your symptoms may not be the symptoms that they have.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

A really good point. And since we’ve talked about these barriers, I’d love to wrap this part of the conversation up by giving solutions. So, Dr. Jain, you mentioned a couple, you talked about having this one number for all of the how healthcare providers to call, if there are questions to kind of help to coordinate care. Are there other solutions that you or Ms. Smith can offer to start to overcome some of these barriers in care?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Sure, yeah. In addition to the multidisciplinary team that we were discussing and having, those people that we can talk to another barrier that I didn’t talk about is a lot of prior auths and having pharmacy support to get some of these medicines that can be really expensive, right? The financial toxicity that can come with some of the medicines that we manage myeloproliferative neoplasms with is hard. So having pharmacy support is again very important.

Having that specialty pharmacy that can help us navigate how to get these medicines to patients quickly and get them in an affordable manner, I think another important part that we always come back to is education. Education of those pharmacists, of patients, of other healthcare providers helping them stay on top of what new drug approvals come through, what Phase III trials are available in the community, what the side effects of these medicines are so that they are empowered to be able to help their patients out in the community and also in tertiary care centers.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. Thank you both. Well, we’re going to move on. And in this section I want to talk about some of the challenges and opportunities. So I’m going to start with you on this one. Ms. Smith, can you speak to some of the emerging challenges and opportunities in the management of myeloproliferative neoplasms?

Kimberly Smith:

Well, a lot of the world of MPNs is starting to explode, especially with myelofibrosis. We are getting all these different treatments, these trials running, things hopefully that we will have that could that could change the disease process in these patients. And one of the biggest challenges is, is that where do the patients fit at in this aspect of it? Are we going to be able to actually get patients approved for some of these things or will we have to go with the oldie, but goodie with a lot of these? We still use hydroxyurea (Hydrea) a lot in these MPNs. And so, but we have a lot of other drugs now that we can use.

But because we know that it’s tried and true, and it’s harder to get patients on some of these other drugs, we go with the oldie but goodie. So I think that’s a challenge that we…that we’ll have. And the other thing is too these drugs are expensive. So even if we can get the drug form at our institution or in the community, if we can get them for them, will they be able to afford them? And one thing I can say that I’ve noticed is a lot of the drug companies that we’ve dealt with here that they are really good about helping, is there anything that we can do to kind of help push the process to get patients assistance for these therapies? And so I think that’s one of the biggest challenges that we’ll have with treating them, just this explosion of new therapies coming.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

And you kind of alluded to it when you spoke about hydroxyurea. So I’m going to pose this question to you, Dr. Jain, are there any unforeseen or outdated practice-related barriers or therapeutic inertia that may hinder your work in that of your colleagues?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Yes, definitely. I echo Ms. Smith’s sentiments. I think a lot of times, things that we have already used for years and having familiarity with those treatments sometimes can lead to resistance to accepting new guidelines and treatments. And that can come from, again, not knowing the side effects that these treatments can pose, right? Not having long-term data that these drugs haven’t been, some of them are new, they haven’t been around for years, so we don’t know what they can cause in the future. And that can happen both from the healthcare provider standpoint and also from the patient standpoint. And it can be challenging. And what can help us overcome that is education.

Even though the drugs might not be approved, for example, the newest approval that came around last year was momelotinib (Ojjaara), which is a newer drug for myelofibrosis, can help treat anemia as well. After it was approved, we had patients ask us for that drug for months before we could actually prescribe it. Yes, because FDA approval and then actually being able to prescribe the drug take…it takes some time for these drugs to show up on formularies for pharmacies to start carrying them. And then going back to, even if the drug was approved last year, it doesn’t mean it’s a new drug. It’s being tested and it is being tested in trials for years now. So those are some of the things that I can think of.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you both. So I want to talk about the Landmark study. This, as you all know, was a large scale analysis and survey of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms as well as the healthcare providers who treat these rare chronic blood cancers. Ms. Smith, how do you feel that healthcare professionals can use the insights from the MPN Landmark study as an opportunity to improve how they communicate and interact with their patients?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Sure, I think the most important thing that we can learn is understanding the patient perspectives and needs. It provides an in-depth analysis of what the patients get anxious about or what the patient’s symptoms are about. So if, for example, if the patients are anxious about side effects of treatment, we can be proactive in empowering our patients with that knowledge that these are the things that we need to look out for.

These are the things that you would call us for. And again, it gets us back to understanding the common challenges that our MPN patients face and then how we can help them with those challenges, those symptom management. If treatment adherence is a problem, how can we help them have a pill diary? Or if a burden is a problem, how can we help them reduce some of the medicines that they’re taking? I think it provided a really good understanding of what patients feel, how their perspectives are, and what things we can use to improve their management and provide more patient-centered care.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

And what about you, Ms. Smith? What are your main takeaways from the Landmark study and how can healthcare providers use those results to improve the way they interact with patients?

Kimberly Smith:

My main takeaway was where the patients, where it showed on the study, where the patients were saying it was hard for them to get up out of the bed. So I’ve dealt with that with many patients. Fatigue is a true issue. And, I’ve had patients tell me they’ve golfed nine holes. I had no idea what that meant. But then they say I come in and I can only golf five holes.

I still had no idea what that meant. However, it was significant for them. And so, what I take from that study is we have to not only just ask patients, what are your symptoms? We have to actually question and dig to actually find out because what we may be looking at just off of the symptom score page, they may have something else that’s hindering their ADLs or hindering their, what they’ve done all the time in their life. And it’s changed now.

And so, I think the main thing we have to do is actually ask, educate, have them to write down symptoms, anything that happens new that happens to them, let’s write it down. Let’s go over it. Let’s talk about it. And then if it’s fatigue, we have ways we can help mitigate some of that. We collaborate with palliative care to help with symptom management. If it’s allergy symptoms, we collaborate with allergy. So there’s ways we can help you with your symptoms, but if we don’t know, we don’t know. So I think the education, I think talking to patients, like actually talking to them on their level is what that Landmark study kind of presented to all of us, healthcare providers, that what we may be looking at as symptoms may not be symptoms for the patient.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. And that kind of circles back to, I think what you were talking about earlier, Dr. Jain, with regard to patient-reported outcomes. So I will say I was thrilled to see this study, and I wish that this is something that was done in all disease states. So thank you both for commenting on that. So in our final topic, we’re going to talk about strategies for closing the gaps in myeloproliferative neoplasm care. So I’m going to go to you first, Dr. Jain, can you describe the most effective strategies, including your own best practices that can address gaps in care for patients facing a myeloproliferative neoplasm?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Yes. So again, coming back to empowering our patient and leading to that shared medical decision-making. So different patients present differently, not using that one-size-fits-all philosophy, depending on what their symptoms are, what their diagnosis is tailoring their treatment. If cytopenias or anemia is a problem, helping them battle that. And different hemoglobins can be different for different patients. So not discounting their symptoms, saying that your hemoglobin is 11, your hemoglobin’s fine, you don’t need any treatment for this right now, maybe they’re used to functioning at a 14.

So shared medical decision-making is very important, because if patients feel like they’re heard, if patients feel like they’re a part of the decision that their healthcare provider made in helping them decide what is best for them, I think that is really important. And it would lead to patients actually adhering to treatment, following up with their healthcare provider, and also better physician-patient relationship, which I think is very important in some of these chronic diseases, where these relationships last for years, right? This is one of the chronic diseases, like a lot of times we’re telling our patients, this is like high blood pressure or diabetes, we have to learn to live with it.

And so they have to be friends with their healthcare provider, otherwise they’re not going to come see you again. So I think empowering the patient, making them a part of this decision of how we’re going to treat them, how we’re going to monitor them, how often should we be doing their labs, is it feasible for them, I think are really important ways to close those gaps and help our patients.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much, Dr. Jain. What about you, Ms. Smith, what thoughts do you have in terms of strategies to address the gaps in care for MPN patients?

Kimberly Smith:

I agree with Dr. Jain, but also bridging the gap between community and tertiary centers. A lot of times, we treat patients in these big centers, and then we send them out to local places to whether they need transfusions or, or to continue care because the distance for them to make it here is just too far. So I think, bridging, collaborating with the outside community hospitals and community centers, and also even the nursing staff, the nursing staff coordinating, just coordinating the care so these patients will know that they are receiving effective care, whether they are at this tertiary center or they’re at their community center, because we all are working as a team to make sure they have everything they need.

And also including the family. Families are important. That was a big thing to me. Like, I want to make sure families knew that they were a part of this team also, because a lot of times it’s the family who is having to deal with the symptom management. They’re the ones who want their family member to go somewhere with them, and they’re just too fatigued to get out, and they don’t understand it, because we’re telling them that this is a chronic disease. They should be able to do some things, but they just can’t. So I think we have to make sure we’re bridging the gap with the families also.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So for you, Dr. Jain, are there specific strategies or maybe one strategy that you have implemented yourself, maybe where you work, that has helped to bridge that gap between tertiary care and the community setting, as an example?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Yeah, that’s a very good point brought up by Ms. Smith. So what I do, because a lot of the patients I see in my clinical practice are second opinions. A lot of these patients I see one time, and maybe I’ll never see them again, or maybe I’ll see them in two years from now when things have changed, and they have more questions, or their provider has more questions. So what I do is I make sure the patient has my contact number so that they can always reach out if things change.

I make sure they have that MyChart set up so that they can always message me if they need me. The next step that I always take is I call their primary oncologist. I make sure they have my cell phone number so that they can call me if things change, if they have any questions. And the third thing I always tell my patients is you can use me however you want to use me.

So, I, a lot of times, would set up virtual visits in three months or in six months. That way, even if they live hours away from us, they can see us the tertiary care center through the comfort of their home. They can get labs locally and see us. They can kind of alternate between their primary oncologist and a tertiary care center, or maybe see us once a year. It’s dependent on how much they feel makes them comfortable seeing us along with their primary oncologist who’s doing most of the heavy lifting, providing the care close to their homes.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

And to circle back to the family part, I’m going to go back to you, Ms. Smith. Is there a strategy that you can share that you and your team implement to really engage with the family members of MPN patients?

Kimberly Smith:

Yes. So we provide educational materials to the patients. We always ask them to bring a family member with them. If they can’t bring a family member with them, I’m willing to call a family member if they need information after the visit. I always give them the contact numbers that the family member can contact me also. MyChart is a big thing. Make sure they have MyChart because the family reaches out via MyChart also.

Another thing that I do is that I try to make sure that the family also has like the educational material too, because sometimes you can give it to the patient, but they don’t share it. So if a family member comes, if I pass out information to the patient, I pass it out to the family member also. I also provide them with websites that they can use, that they can utilize. Like the Cleveland Clinic is one of them that I have them use a lot, but, but websites that they can use where they can actually look up information on these different MPNs that they may have. So I think the educational piece is the biggest thing that I do with my patients.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Excellent. Thank you both for that. We talked a little bit about the perception that patients have when we talked about the Landmark study a little earlier in this program. And Dr. Jain, I’m going to come to you. How did the gaps in perception or perhaps the disconnects between the patient perception and the physician or healthcare provider perception of the disease burden, how do those gaps impact overall management and treatment outcomes for MPN patients?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Sure, Dr. Rochester. So the disconnect between the physician and patient can become really important and where that occurs is because a lot of times our low symptom burden, low-risk disease patients are being observed. And the physician might think that I don’t think this patient warrants treatment, but the perception that the patient has of their symptoms might actually be very different. And I think what comes really handy here again is that MPN symptoms score, when you ask patients to rate the symptoms from 0 to 10, but 10 being the worst, you can actually see where they lie on the spectrum.

And I do these symptoms scores on every visit, because especially if I’m starting them on treatment, it really helps to know in an objective manner that what was the number that our patient rated fatigue on at their last appointment and what that number is now. And it’s not just fatigue, but all those 10 points and then symptom score, how are their night sweats, how is their itching, are they still having problems concentrating, have they lost weight?

So all these questions with a number attached to them, and it’s very surprising. You’ll see patients put in a zero for all these numbers and suddenly after three months, those numbers change. And so that really helps to know where the patient lies and so that we can close the gap between what the patient is perceiving about their symptoms versus what their provider is.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Ms. Smith, what would you like to add?

Kimberly Smith:

Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that because using that symptom score, one of the questions is early satiety and losing weight. And that’s a big thing for these patients because they can end up with spleen enlargement. And so one of the main things that I kind of hone in on is, I want you to chart your symptoms. I don’t care what it is, Chart your symptoms. Even if it seems small to you, chart it. Because once you start them on drug, these things can change. And I just speak from one, just remembering one patient that I had who had an enlarged spleen and her main thing was, I want to eat. I just want to eat a burger and a full burger. And I haven’t been able to do that.

And we started her on treatment. And within three months, her main thing was, Kim, I was able to eat a burger and I ate the whole thing. So even though we probably can’t see on scans that it’s smaller, she could tell something was different. And that just made her happy to be able to do that. And so I tell them to chart everything. It doesn’t matter what it is, how mediocre you may think it is or minuscule you may think it is. It’s important because if things change over time, we need to be able to manage it.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. Thank you. Well, this has been awesome. I have learned a lot as always. It is time to wrap up our roundtable. And I’d like to get closing thoughts from each of you. So, Dr. Jain, what is the most important takeaway message you want to leave with the healthcare professionals who will be listening to this program?

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Yeah, thank you, Dr. Rochester. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation as well. I think the most important part of all of this is empower your patients. Tell them what they are suffering from. Tell them this is a chronic disease. Tell them you’re there for them. Use the resources we have the MPN symptom score. Use the medications we have if the patients meet those criteria, if they’re having symptoms. Sometimes it’s important to get down to the patient’s level and get to the point where they or get down to the patient’s level and feel what they’re feeling, rate their fatigue, and give them the help they need.

Dr. Nicole Rochester: 

Thank you, Dr. Jain. And Ms. Smith, what is the most important takeaway message that you would like to leave with our healthcare professional audience?

Kimberly Smith:

Thank you. I truly appreciated this and I loved it. This was awesome. But I just want to leave that, listen to your patients. They know their bodies. They know themselves. Listen to their family. They’ve dealt with them all their lives. They know when something is different. So just listen to them. Listen to them. Be receptive. And that way we can work as a team to make sure our patients get the best care that they need.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Well, thank you both. Just to echo what Dr. Jain and Ms. Smith have said, the most important takeaways are really involving our patients and their families, empowering our patients and families, educating our patients and families, and also valuing this multidisciplinary, interdisciplinary team. So thank you both so much again for being here and being part of this important conversation. And thanks to all of you for tuning in to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients, Patient Empowerment Network program. Again, I’m Dr. Nicole Rochester. Thank you for watching.


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Overcoming Barriers in Myelofibrosis Care: Challenges Faced by Patients and Providers

Overcoming Barriers in Myelofibrosis Care: Challenges Faced by Patients and Providers from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are key myelofibrosis barriers and solutions for healthcare providers? Experts Dr. Raajit Rampal from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. Jeanne Palmer from Mayo Clinic discuss common obstacles to myelofibrosis care and methods they’ve used to overcome barriers including collaborative care tips.

See More from EPEP MPNs

Related Resources:

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients


Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Dr. Palmer, can you speak to some of the obstacles or barriers faced by healthcare providers themselves when treating myelofibrosis patients?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

I think one of the challenging pieces, you know, I know in Arizona, we have a pretty big catchment area, because there’s not only the Phoenix metropolitan area, but there are a lot of smaller communities scattered throughout Arizona. And I think one of the issues that we have is, let’s say I want to start somebody on a new medication that potentially has a side effect of anemia or something. Being able to manage them remotely is difficult, because a lot of times they may require a blood transfusion. Can they even get a blood transfusion where they’re at? Can they afford the 5-hour drive down to Phoenix to get that? So I think sometimes, even access to simple things, well, I guess it’s not that simple, but things like blood transfusions can be hard. Fortunately for labs, you’re often able to get them most places through various Labcorp, Quest, et cetera. But sometimes any type of infusional treatment can be really, really hard to get.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you. Do you have anything to add, Dr. Rampal, with regard to barriers faced by providers?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

No, I actually think that’s an important, that’s a really important thing. Because it depends on your area of the country and what access to resources patients have locally. If we’re thinking about this as sort of a hub and spoke model, that may be the outdated model. In other words, it’s not that people can afford to, you know, from a financial perspective or a time perspective, come into the major center and then go back. They need to get access to care locally, but you have to have the infrastructure, the healthcare infrastructure, if you will, to deliver that care. And that’s a difficult problem in many parts of the country.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Dr. Rampal, can you speak to unforeseen or maybe outdated practice-related barriers that may hinder your work and that of your colleagues with regard to myelofibrosis treatment?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Yeah, I guess my broad answer to this is that things are changing rapidly and the pace of change is accelerated. In other words, when we think about myelofibrosis, the treatment paradigm probably, if you think about the last 15 years, in the early part of that, things were kind of relatively static and now they’re not as new knowledge emerges, as new treatments emerge. And the challenge here, again, speaking in general terms is, as Dr. Palmer pointed out, this is a rare disease. It’s not something that’s frequently seen by physicians in the community. So how do you keep people up to date on something that is not the majority of what they do? It’s a very small percentage of what they see and do. And that’s an ongoing challenge. And I’m not sure there’s any perfect solution to that except for education. It’s just a question of how do you deliver that in a time-effective manner so that people can devote some time to getting up to date? But it is ultimately a good problem that things are changing rapidly.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. And, Dr. Palmer, do you have any solutions or actions or things that healthcare providers can do as this treatment landscape rapidly evolves?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

I think it’s a real challenge because even when we look at sort of the dogma of like, well, what’s the response criteria? I mean, when you’re thinking of a lot of like solid tumors, you think, okay, did the tumor shrink a certain amount? Did the tumor go away? With myelofibrosis, when we think about even response criteria, it’s really challenging. So I think I agree education is part of it, and it’s trying to figure out how to distill down the really important components of how do you manage these patients day-to-day? We can talk about the COMFORT study and the MOMENTUM study and everything else all we want to, that tested, were major studies that tested the drugs that we use, but then the nuances of how to manage them day-to-day is something that I think we could probably improve upon how we educate.


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Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How is myelofibrosis care impacted by barriers, and what are solutions for healthcare providers to overcome them? Experts Dr. Raajit Rampal from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. Jeanne Palmer from Mayo Clinic discuss different access barriers that impact quality of care and ways that healthcare providers can help close disparity gaps for patients.

See More from EPEP MPNs

Related Resources:

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care

Overcoming Barriers in Myelofibrosis Care: Challenges Faced by Patients and Providers

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients


Transcript: 

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So we’re going to start by diving into the nuanced challenges and practice barriers in myelofibrosis care. We know that some of those factors may be related to socioeconomic factors and health disparities. So, Dr. Rampal, I’m going to start with you. What are the primary barriers in myelofibrosis care, and how might these barriers impact accessing effective treatment for myelofibrosis?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Well, I think it’s broad in the sense that, if we think about access to care, I think that part of the problem lies in underdiagnosis, and that is really on the end of the spectrum of access to primary care I’d say, are people getting in and getting regular blood count checks, the things that are going to tip somebody off that, you know, if somebody has a hematologic issue or problem, I think that is a big part of the entire discussion and spectrum here. And then the second thing is that this is a rare disease, and there are a handful of specialists throughout the world who deal with this.

And so making sure that patients have access to expert care, which is not to undermine the quality care that’s provided in the community, but this is more a question about do patients have access to, you know, clinical trials or to the most updated knowledge, and that to me really revolves around people being able to have access to tertiary care referral center who has a myelofibrosis expert. So I think those are some of the barriers, at least in my mind.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much. And, Dr. Palmer, I’d love to get your insight as well. From your perspective, what are the primary barriers to accessing effective treatment, and what strategies can be implemented to overcome these barriers?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

So I agree with everything that Dr. Rampal said, but I’d also want to add to it, like many people would have to travel a distance to see that specialist. And so one of the ways that I’ve been able to try to overcome that thus far is by telemedicine. So being able to have that ability to contact somebody over the Internet, I think, especially if they’re getting very good care locally, just being able to provide that sort of expert additional advice about how to manage their disease, what different options are available.

Fortunately, this is a space where new drugs are coming pretty rapidly. So I think that having the ability to be able to weed through all of these different drugs, understand the pros and cons of them, and advise patients is good. And if they can’t make it to see you, then they can’t get advice about the medications nor can the providers. Because recognizing this is such a rare disease, a community provider has a lot to keep track of. So trying to keep track of something that impacts so few patients is hard to do. I think the other big barrier is cost and support for getting these medications.

These medications are all, unfortunately, quite expensive, and new drugs that are coming down the horizon will probably be so as well. So being able to find the right support for them, even when insurance covers it, it’s sometimes with a very large copay. So trying to handle access to these drugs, not only in the knowledge of which drugs to give, but also the ability to be able to pay for them.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. Thank you both for elucidating some of those barriers. And you both mentioned that this is a rare disease and, Dr. Rampal, you also talked about expert care. And so I’d love to know, and I’ll start with you, Dr. Rampal, how do referral patterns impact treatment access in myelofibrosis and particularly for underserved populations?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

This is a really interesting question, because things are changing in the sense that, I think at least in the New York area, but probably true elsewhere, there’s increasing consolidation of healthcare as hospital systems buy up smaller practices. And that means that referral patterns are going to change and are changing. There’s more of an impetus for docs to refer patients within their own health network. And they may or may not have access to expert care within their network. I think that’s one thing to keep in mind.

And the second is that, the elephant in the room here is that you have to have insurance to get into these networks. You have to have the right insurance. And do all of these big academic tertiary centers accept every kind of insurance? The answer is no, they don’t. So right off the bat, you have a systemic barrier, but then with the changing referral patterns, and I think likely certain insurances being more likely to be accepted in certain networks, you’ve already kind of fragmented the entire system. So, is there a streamlined way for patients to get in? Right now, I think the answer is no, there are a lot of barriers.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you, Dr. Rampal. Dr. Palmer, do you have anything to add? And also if you can touch on what healthcare providers should be aware of and what they can pay close attention to with regard to these barriers that you and Dr. Rampal have discussed?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Right, so I completely agree with everything he said. I think it’s a real challenge, especially as you parse apart these different healthcare systems. I think one of the important things for patients to know and what providers can help with is providing sort of access to some of the patient advocacy sites. On these patient advocacy sites, they can find the name of different providers, and sometimes that helps them call in to get a referral. Now, the insurance coverage is another challenge that’s a lot harder to manage. But I think one thing that patients can do is if within their own network, there isn’t an expert, at least being able to go to these patient advocacy sites, finding out who they should, who they can go see.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful, thank you. Well, we’ve been talking about how certain populations may experience more barriers. And certainly we know that’s at the root of health and healthcare disparities. So I want to move and start to talk a little bit about cultural competency. And I’ll go back to you, Dr. Rampal, what role do you believe cultural competency plays in addressing barriers in myelofibrosis care?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Yeah, I think one of the major tasks is to be aware that cultural competency is important. That to me is sort of the first step in everything. And in making this a little bit more granular. Not every patient approaches their disease or their diagnosis in the same way. And a lot of that is informed by their cultural beliefs, their community. And this is something, you know, living in a place in like New York where we see people from all different cultures, this is a striking thing because there are people who, for example, you know, they come from, you know, strong religious faith backgrounds. Their approach to things is different.

In some respects, they approach the disease and the need for treatment in a very different way than people who come from other cultural communities or those who are, let’s say, even not coming from a religious setting. But if you’re not aware of those and you try to put the same sort of treatment paradigm on all patients, you’re going to run into conflicts at some point. So I think to me, the first step is to be aware that these things influence how people perceive their disease, how they perceive the treatments or their desire to even be treated. But if you’re not aware of those things at the outset, then you’re going to run into those issues, I think.

 


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HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Explore the complex challenges and barriers in myelofibrosis care with Dr. Raajit K. Rampal from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer from the Mayo Clinic. Gain insights into therapeutic inertia, effective strategies for overcoming care barriers, and enhancing patient-centric care to improve myelofibrosis outcomes.

Related Resources:

Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden

Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms?

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients


Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Welcome to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients EPEP program. I’m Dr. Nicole Rochester, founder and CEO of Your GPS Doc. EPEP is a Patient Empowerment Network program that serves as a secure space for healthcare providers to learn techniques for improving physician-patient communication and to overcome practice barriers. In this healthcare provider roundtable, we are discussing breaking through myelofibrosis practice barriers.

We’re going to talk about the nuanced challenges and practice barriers in myelofibrosis care. How do patient socioeconomic factors impact treatment access? We will look at gaps in the field and overcoming practice barriers such as lack of awareness, outdated practices, and therapeutic inertia, while also addressing solutions to enhance patient-centric care in myelofibrosis for improved patient outcomes. 

It is my privilege to be joined by Dr. Raajit K. Rampal of Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Dr. Rampal is a clinical translational investigator whose research focuses on the genetic events that contribute to the development and progression of leukemia and myeloproliferative neoplasms. Thank you so much for joining this EPEP program, Dr. Rampal. 

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Thanks so much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

It’s also an honor to be joined by Dr. Jeanne Palmer, hematologist at Mayo Clinic. Dr. Palmer’s interest is in identifying novel targeted therapies for patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms. She strives to offer innovative therapies to patients in all stages of their disease through clinical trials. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Palmer.

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So we’re going to start today’s discussion by diving into the nuanced challenges and practice barriers in myelofibrosis care. We know that some of those factors may be related to socioeconomic factors and health disparities. So, Dr. Rampal, I’m going to start with you. What are the primary barriers in myelofibrosis care, and how might these barriers impact accessing effective treatment for myelofibrosis?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Well, I think it’s broad in the sense that, if we think about access to care, I think that part of the problem lies in underdiagnosis, and that is really on the end of the spectrum of access to primary care I’d say, are people getting in and getting regular blood count checks, the things that are going to tip somebody off that, you know, if somebody has a hematologic issue or problem, I think that is a big part of the entire discussion and spectrum here.

And then the second thing is that this is a rare disease, and there are a handful of specialists throughout the world who deal with this. And so making sure that patients have access to expert care, which is not to undermine the quality care that’s provided in the community, but this is more a question about do patients have access to, you know, clinical trials or to the most updated knowledge, and that to me really revolves around people being able to have access to tertiary care referral center who has a myelofibrosis expert. So I think those are some of the barriers, at least in my mind.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much. And, Dr. Palmer, I’d love to get your insight as well. From your perspective, what are the primary barriers to accessing effective treatment, and what strategies can be implemented to overcome these barriers?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

So I agree with everything that Dr. Rampal said, but I’d also want to add to it, like many people would have to travel a distance to see that specialist. And so one of the ways that I’ve been able to try to overcome that thus far is by telemedicine. So being able to have that ability to contact somebody over the Internet, I think, especially if they’re getting very good care locally, just being able to provide that sort of expert additional advice about how to manage their disease, what different options are available. Fortunately, this is a space where new drugs are coming pretty rapidly.

So I think that having the ability to be able to weed through all of these different drugs, understand the pros and cons of them, and advise patients is good. And if they can’t make it to see you, then they can’t get advice about the medications nor can the providers. Because recognizing this is such a rare disease, a community provider has a lot to keep track of. So trying to keep track of something that impacts so few patients is hard to do. I think the other big barrier is cost and support for getting these medications.

These medications are all, unfortunately, quite expensive, and new drugs that are coming down the horizon will probably be so as well. So being able to find the right support for them, even when insurance covers it, it’s sometimes with a very large copay. So trying to handle access to these drugs, not only in the knowledge of which drugs to give, but also the ability to be able to pay for them.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. Thank you both for elucidating some of those barriers. And you both mentioned that this is a rare disease and, Dr. Rampal, you also talked about expert care. And so I’d love to know, and I’ll start with you, Dr. Rampal, how do referral patterns impact treatment access in myelofibrosis and particularly for underserved populations?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

This is a really interesting question, because things are changing in the sense that, I think at least in the New York area, but probably true elsewhere, there’s increasing consolidation of healthcare as hospital systems buy up smaller practices. And that means that referral patterns are going to change and are changing. There’s more of an impetus for docs to refer patients within their own health network. And they may or may not have access to expert care within their network. I think that’s one thing to keep in mind.

And the second is that, the elephant in the room here is that you have to have insurance to get into these networks. You have to have the right insurance. And do all of these big academic tertiary centers accept every kind of insurance? The answer is no, they don’t. So right off the bat, you have a systemic barrier, but then with the changing referral patterns, and I think likely certain insurances being more likely to be accepted in certain networks, you’ve already kind of fragmented the entire system. So, is there a streamlined way for patients to get in? Right now, I think the answer is no, there are a lot of barriers.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you, Dr. Rampal. Dr. Palmer, do you have anything to add? And also if you can touch on what healthcare providers should be aware of and what they can pay close attention to with regard to these barriers that you and Dr. Rampal have discussed?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Right, so I completely agree with everything he said. I think it’s a real challenge, especially as you parse apart these different healthcare systems. I think one of the important things for patients to know and what providers can help with is providing sort of access to some of the patient advocacy sites. On these patient advocacy sites, they can find the name of different providers, and sometimes that helps them call in to get a referral.

Now, the insurance coverage is another challenge that’s a lot harder to manage. But I think one thing that patients can do is if within their own network, there isn’t an expert, at least being able to go to these patient advocacy sites, finding out who they should, who they can go see.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful, thank you. Well, we’ve been talking about how certain populations may experience more barriers. And certainly we know that’s at the root of health and healthcare disparities. So I want to move and start to talk a little bit about cultural competency. And I’ll go back to you, Dr. Rampal, what role do you believe cultural competency plays in addressing barriers in myelofibrosis care?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Yeah, I think one of the major tasks is to be aware that cultural competency is important. That to me is sort of the first step in everything. And in making this a little bit more granular. Not every patient approaches their disease or their diagnosis in the same way. And a lot of that is informed by their cultural beliefs, their community. And this is something, you know, living in a place like New York where we see people from all different cultures, this is a striking thing because there are people who, for example, you know, they come from, you know, strong religious faith backgrounds. Their approach to things is different.

In some respects, they approach the disease and the need for treatment in a very different way than people who come from other cultural communities or those who are, let’s say, even not coming from a religious setting. But if you’re not aware of those and you try to put the same sort of treatment paradigm on all patients, you’re going to run into conflicts at some point. So I think to me, the first step is to be aware that these things influence how people perceive their disease, how they perceive the treatments or their desire to even be treated. But if you’re not aware of those things at the outset, then you’re going to run into those issues, I think.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much, Dr. Rampal. Well, we’ve been talking about the barriers that patients face. Dr. Palmer, can you speak to some of the obstacles or barriers faced by healthcare providers themselves when treating myelofibrosis patients?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

I think one of the challenging pieces, you know, I know in Arizona, we have a pretty big catchment area, because there’s not only the Phoenix metropolitan area, but there are a lot of smaller communities scattered throughout Arizona. And I think one of the issues that we have is, let’s say I want to start somebody on a new medication that potentially has a side effect of anemia or something.

Being able to manage them remotely is difficult, because a lot of times they may require a blood transfusion. Can they even get a blood transfusion where they’re at? Can they afford the 5-hour drive down to Phoenix to get that? So I think sometimes, even access to simple things, well, I guess it’s not that simple, but things like blood transfusions can be hard. Fortunately for labs, you’re often able to get them most places through various Labcorp, Quest, et cetera. But sometimes any type of infusional treatment can be really, really hard to get.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you. Do you have anything to add, Dr. Rampal, with regard to barriers faced by providers?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

No, I actually think that’s an important, that’s a really important thing. Because it depends on your area of the country and what access to resources patients have locally. If we’re thinking about this as sort of a hub and spoke model, that may be the outdated model. In other words, it’s not that people can afford to, you know, from a financial perspective or a time perspective, come into the major center and then go back. They need to get access to care locally, but you have to have the infrastructure, the healthcare infrastructure, if you will, to deliver that care. And that’s a difficult problem in many parts of the country.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. Wonderful. Well, you talked about something maybe being outdated. That’s a perfect segue to our next conversation. And so I’ll start with you this time, Dr. Rampal. Can you speak to unforeseen or maybe outdated practice-related barriers that may hinder your work and that of your colleagues with regard to myelofibrosis treatment?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Yeah, I guess my broad answer to this is that things are changing rapidly and the pace of change is accelerated. In other words, when we think about myelofibrosis, the treatment paradigm probably, if you think about the last 15 years, in the early part of that, things were kind of relatively static and now they’re not as new knowledge emerges, as new treatments emerge. And the challenge here, again, speaking in general terms is, as Dr. Palmer pointed out, this is a rare disease. It’s not something that’s frequently seen by physicians in the community.

So how do you keep people up to date on something that is not the majority of what they do? It’s a very small percentage of what they see and do. And that’s an ongoing challenge. And I’m not sure there’s any perfect solution to that except for education. It’s just a question of how do you deliver that in a time-effective manner so that people can devote some time to getting up to date? But it is ultimately a good problem that things are changing rapidly.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. And, Dr. Palmer, do you have any solutions or actions or things that healthcare providers can do as this treatment landscape rapidly evolves?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

I think it’s a real challenge because even when we look at sort of the dogma of like, well, what’s the response criteria? I mean, when you’re thinking of a lot of like solid tumors, you think, okay, did the tumor shrink a certain amount? Did the tumor go away? With myelofibrosis, when we think about even response criteria, it’s really challenging.

So I think I agree education is part of it, and it’s trying to figure out how to distill down the really important components of how do you manage these patients day-to-day? We can talk about the COMFORT study and the MOMENTUM study and everything else all we want to, that tested, were major studies that tested the drugs that we use, but then the nuances of how to manage them day-to-day is something that I think we could probably improve upon how we educate.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you. So as we move on to our final topic, we’re going to start talking about collaborative care. You all have spoken about this being a rare disease, the need for expert care, the fact that not everyone has access to that expert care. And so the reality is that it’s going to take more than just experts like yourself in order to manage these patients. And so, Dr. Palmer, I’m going to start with you. What are the key components of an effective collaborative care ecosystem for myelofibrosis? And how can healthcare providers integrate these components to ensure comprehensive patient care?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Well, I think one of the most important things is really making sure you’re having conversations with the patients, are able to sort of elucidate what’s really important to them and how they’re feeling. I think many patients actually are very aware of things that they want to or don’t want to do. And so, and then in a disease like this one, where there are lots of different options, there are also just nuances in the way you sort of treat things like, okay, do you want to take this side effect or that side effect? Or how do you want to approach this? Being able to have those conversations to really get their input on it is very important.

That’s one of the reasons I really enjoy treating this disease is because it’s not so regimented in how you do it. It becomes really a conversation, understanding how the patient’s feeling, understanding the side effects that they’re having, so you can better determine how you should continue with the therapy.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. I appreciate that. And I appreciate that you brought in the patient perspective when we’re speaking about collaborative care, because, of course, they need to be involved in their part of their medical team. Dr. Rampal, what about the healthcare providers? How can you cultivate a collaborative ecosystem with other healthcare providers as you all provide care for myelofibrosis?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Part of my advice here is simple, which is to pick up the phone. And I’ll tell you why I put it that way. I think that what happens…and this is something I always emphasize to our trainees, because I don’t think this is something that’s taught. This is, as they call it, a soft skill. But there is, I think, a tendency, at least in academic centers, for people to want to ensconce themselves in the ivory tower. And that doesn’t help, because you have to communicate with the people taking care of the patients.

And the simplest way to do that is to pick up the phone and call the referring doctor who they’re seeing in the community, and say, “Listen, I saw your patient. Here’s what I think. I’d like to share the care with the patient. I can see them every six months. Please keep me updated. This is my cell phone number. Call me if there’s a problem.” That, to me, has been the most simple, effective tool to build collaborative partnerships with physicians in the community. And it’s not something that I think is taught, but we have to do that. We have to break down these barriers between specialty care or academic care and community care. I think that’s one of the best things we can do to help patients get the care they need.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

And what a simple tool, just picking up the phone. We often try to create complex technological solutions. And you’re right. It’s just as simple as picking up the phone and having that one-on-one conversation. So thank you for adding that. Dr. Palmer, how can multidisciplinary teams be best utilized to improve outcomes in myelofibrosis care?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

So it always takes a village to treat a patient. I think that making sure that you have…that your social workers or case managers have good access to different resources to help with patients. As I said, one of the biggest challenges is paying for these drugs. So having a good team of social workers or case managers who are really able to tap into resources, so patients can get access to these drugs is really important. Making sure that you have good nursing support.

One of the things that’s really important is I can ask my nurse, “Hey, look, can you check in on this person in the next few weeks to see how they’re doing with their new medication?” And even having good APPs. I’m very fortunate to have a couple of APPs I work with who are very knowledgeable about MPN. So I don’t worry that if I’m not there to see the patient that somebody else who’s seeing the patient won’t be able to assess them in a good way. So I think having that whole cadre of people around you to support the care of that patient is critical.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. And I appreciate that you lifted up not just the medical providers, but the case managers as well, particularly with some of the challenges that we’ve been talking about today. And, Dr. Rampal, do you have any specific solutions for how to achieve seamless coordination among the different specialists that may be involved in the patient’s care?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

No. I think it’s a difficult problem. I’m not sure there’s a clear solution. Even the simple thing of medical record systems not talking to each other; people use different medical record systems, those things all create barriers. I think that…the only thing that I think is worthwhile is making sure that you’re actively managing this communication.

In other words, when you write a note in your electronic medical system, you’re assuming that it’s getting sent and being read by the referring physician and all of that, but that’s a passive way of thinking about this. And one has to be active. One has to make sure that if there are key things to be communicated amongst all of the people taking care of a patient, as I said earlier, a simple thing is pick up the phone or make sure you have communication about your ideas and plans for the patient so that the other people, providers involved in that patient’s care are all aware of that.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much. Yeah, the electronic medical record does not sometimes live up to those expectations, which takes us back to what you said earlier, picking up the phone. It’s time to wrap up our roundtable. And I must say I have enjoyed this conversation so much. And as we bring this program to a close, I’d love to get closing thoughts from each of you.

And so I’ll start with you, Dr. Palmer. What is the most important takeaway message that you want to leave other healthcare professionals who may be listening and watching this program around how we begin to eliminate barriers in myelofibrosis care?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Well, I think one of the key factors here is to make sure that you understand what you know and then understand what you don’t know. And there are lots of us out there who are very willing to help and support in any way we can. I think this is a really challenging disease to treat. Speaking as someone who started to treat it mid-career, it was something that I realized that it’s not just about reading papers, there are a lot of nuances to it. So really not having the fear of asking.

Also, to really tap into patient advocacy organizations. There are a number of really good organizations that provide excellent education opportunities for patients and making sure that patients are aware of those so that they can be able to do their own Google search, but not necessarily in a non-constructive fashion. So really tapping into those patient advocacy groups is really important.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. And what about you, Dr. Rampal? What’s a closing takeaway message for our audience?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

I think open lines of communication. I think that from the perspective of providers in the community, we want to know that you have questions. We want to make ourselves available to answer those questions. And so I would much rather be inundated with questions specific to a patient’s care than not to hear from somebody.

And then I think from the specialist side of things, we have to make ourselves available to address these questions and make ourselves accessible. So I think in as much as possible, opening up lines of communication is one of the keys to overcoming some of these barriers. Obviously, there are systemic barriers here that require systemic solutions, but on a granular level I think those are the things we can do.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Well, I want to thank you both. Thank you, Dr. Palmer. Thank you, Dr. Rampal. As always, this has been a very informative conversation. We talked about many of the barriers to myelofibrosis care. We talked about some of the systemic and structural barriers, but we’ve also talked about barriers that healthcare providers can overcome.

And ultimately, the take-home message for me is communication. Communication with our patients in a way that they can understand, in a way that they like to receive information, having respect for cultural differences, and communication and collaboration with each other. So again, thank you both for all of the information that you shared. And thank you all for tuning in to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients Patient Empowerment Network Program. I’m Dr. Nicole Rochester. Thank you for watching.


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Empowering MPN Providers to Empower Their Patients

Empowering MPN Providers to Empower Their Patients

Empowering patients is at the heart of efforts at Patient Empowerment Network (PEN), and work toward reducing health disparities is part of conversations among healthcare professionals. With this in mind, PEN has taken on a new initiative for myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPNs), the MPN Empowering Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP) initiative. The program expands PEN’s reach to healthcare professionals with the goal to improve physician-patient communication; shared decision-making; and the role that MPN patients, survivors, care partners, and healthcare professionals each play in the shared decision-making process. 

The EPEP initiative includes the following resources:

  • Needs Assessment outlines key factors that enable patient empowerment, attributes of an empowered patient, and advice for healthcare professionals to perform a needs assessment for each patient.
  • EPEP Roundtables with Dr. Nicole Rochester and MPN experts Dr. Gabriela Hobbs and Natasha Johnson as they discuss a range of topics including how to help your MPN patients play an active role in managing their care, healthcare provider recommended strategies for managing disease burden, the importance of advanced practice clinicians on the MPN health care team, clinical trials and why it’s vital for nurses to address this topic with patients and families, and cultural humility in action.
  • EPEP Resources provides the resource guide, infographics, blog, and other resources to improve patient care
  • EPEP Portal utilizes PEN’s robust resource library and that of numerous trusted advocacy partners to create a vetted list of patient education resources. PEN delivers a curated PDF according to your interests efficiently to your inbox.

Key Takeaways to Help Empower MPN Patients

PEN had the opportunity to interview experts Dr. Gabriela Hobbs and Natasha Johnson to learn about some of their expertise. They shared their perspectives about vital ways that they work with patients to help empower them and to work toward the best personalized care for each patient.

The art of listening to patients is an essential part of empowering patients in their care journeys. Expert Dr. Gabriela Hobbs from Massachusetts General Hospital shared her perspective about listening. “…I think knowing where your patient is emotionally, what’s important to them, what are their worries, is really important, so you can have a conversation where you’re not just speaking about the things that you as a provider think is important, but really also listening to where the patient is coming from, and so that you can make sure that you’re appeasing their anxieties and whatever decision you make is consistent with both what you think is medically important, but also with what’s really important for the patients. I think listening is really at the core there.

Of course, nurse practitioners often serve as valuable members of the MPN care team. As a nurse practitioner, Natasha Johnson shared her perspective in empowering MPN patients. “…I think that we spend a ton of time educating them to make sure that they really understand this disease, the symptoms that go along with it, the treatments that go along with that, and once we have a good confidence that they understand everything, lead them into discussing what their goals of care are, and then we take all that information together, and we create a treatment plan specific to that patient, really aiming to improve their quality of life and overall survival.

Johnson also shared about the benefits of seeing an MPN specialist. “…I really think there’s a benefit to seeing an MPN expert that is at a national cancer center, academic center. I do think there is some more time allotted to those visits, especially the consults and first appointments for the patient, and we kind of start this with my doctor and other providers of assessing how much does the patient even know to begin with? So that can direct us where to start. And then how deep do they want to go.

Helping to educate MPN patients, of course, can take a variety of different forms. Johnson explained some of the actions that she takes to help her patients. “…I write a lot of things down for my patients when I see them, I think visuals are really helpful, provide literature, I tell them what websites to visit. A lot of times, they just Google their doctor, which is great because they can find them and listen to their own lectures, and they really learn a lot. So just guiding them to those resources. I do think it’s important, too, to give them something like the total symptom score form. Just having that visual of, these are what is common, and then they can think about that between visits, but I think all of those things really help to educate them and get them involved.

Dr. Hobbs

MPN Care Team Best Practices for Patients

Tracking symptoms and preparing for office visits are key tasks for MPN patients. Dr. Hobbs explained  how essential these tasks are for patient empowerment. “…for those patients that are very symptomatic, for example, keeping track of their symptoms over time, writing down notes about how they felt, what they think made something better, made something worse, how they’re responding to these medications, questions that they may have, and writing all of that down helps them be more empowered patients. They can advocate for themselves in a more organized way when they do go see either me or another clinician. So they come in fully prepared with the information and the questions that they want to get out of that visit.

Dr. Hobbs has experienced  the value of the symptom assessment form. “I think clinicians are busy and sometimes feel like having a tool to ask those questions is maybe too burdensome. I personally find that the MPN symptom assessment form is a quick form, it’s easy to complete, it can be given to a patient, there’s a piece of paper while they’re waiting for you.

And Dr. Hobbs shared the benefits she’s experienced with the use of the form. “And that also directs the conversation because it really just gives numbers, makes it objective, and then can really start that conversation. And so remembering that we do have this tool, it actually can help cut down time to the visit and make it more focused, and it’s helpful to…empowers the patient and make sure that you really are asking about all of those symptoms, and just making sure that you don’t just assume that a patient has or doesn’t have a symptom, but really saying, ‘Are there any other symptoms that you’ve noticed?’”

Dr. Hobbs has also witnessed the value of care partners being involved in MPN care conversations  about symptoms. “…the spouse is like, ‘But remember, you really haven’t been having your dinner, and remember how you were complaining about how your stomach was hurting every time you ate. And you say you’re not itchy, but every night when we’re watching TV, I turn around and I see that you’re scratching.’ And so I think that’s also a really important tool to make sure that you make use of the family members, because they really know what’s going on if the patient is not willing to share as much or doesn’t like to complain.

Doctor and patient holding hands.

Advocacy for Cultural Humility

Cultural humility is a process of listening and learning about patients. Dr. Hobbs shared her perspective.  “…there’s all sorts of history in this country, especially about clinical trials. And I think coming into those encounters, like I said at the beginning of our conversation, taking into account that you really do know your patient. But sometimes, you don’t know the patient as well. You’re getting to know them, and you need to make a decision. Just listening, being humble, being aware, trying to understand where the patient is coming from.”

Dr. Hobbs continued to share about taking this vital time to learn about your patients’ ways of thinking.  “I think sometimes, especially when you’re trying to make a decision quickly and you find that there’s some friction, I think taking some time to say, ‘Alright, where is that coming from?’ And perhaps I’m coming across too strong with this recommendation to do this clinical trial and there’s maybe something that I need to explore, and so just keeping an open mind and trying to just ask questions, ‘Where are you coming from? What’s important to you? Why are you hesitating? Or is there something that I can explain in a different way?’”

Even though MPN treatments have experienced increases in quantity and efficacy of treatments, vital HCP best practices can go a long way in empowering MPN patients.How can you help your MPN patients play an active role in managing their care? How do we improve clinician-patient communication about symptoms? How should fellow MPN specialists explain disease progression to patients and care partners?  We hope healthcare providers can take advantage of these timely resources of the EPEP initiative to work toward equitable and culturally sensitive care for all MPN patients.

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Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What is the best way to explain disease progression to myeloproliferative neoplasm patients? MPN experts Dr. Gabriela Hobbs and Natasha Johnson share advice on how they work with patients and families to clearly explain disease progression.

Dr. Gabriela Hobbs is a hematology-oncology physician specializing in the care of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPN), chronic myeloid leukemia, and leukemia. Dr. Hobbs serves as clinical director of the adult leukemia service at Massachusetts General Hospital and is an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School. 

Natasha Johnson, is an Advanced Oncology Nurse Practitioner at Moffitt Cancer Center, where she cares for people living with MPNs with kindness, patience, and humanity. Natasha also speaks at conferences to educate other healthcare professionals about MPN care, research, and treatment. 

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Related Resources

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms?

Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden

Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden

HCP Roundtable Shared Decision-Making in Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Care

HCP Roundtable: Shared Decision-Making in Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Care

Transcript:

Nicole Rochester, MD:

I wanted to shift again and start to talk about specifically disease progression. And we know that that is, unfortunately, something that is an important element of MPNs. And so as we talk to fellow MPN specialists, what are you all’s recommendations for how they can best explain disease progression to patients? Are there any specific languaging or specific tactics that you all use, and even things that maybe you shouldn’t say as you are sharing information about disease progression? Either one of you, feel free to go first.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

So disease progression, I think is a really challenging topic, because on the one hand, I think it’s really important to educate patients. It’s really important for patients to know that that is a possibility, that it is something that can happen. It’s really challenging to have a patient that has lived with this disease for a long time, hardly even knows the name of that disease. Maybe they were seen elsewhere, etcetera, and then all of a sudden, something’s going wrong and they just weren’t prepared for that. But I feel like that really does need to be balanced by the fact that, thankfully, progression happens infrequently. And so you also…going back to what we were saying before, you want to help a patient to be able to live well with these diseases and not be defined by those diseases. And so one of the things that I try to do with patients is, especially during that initial visit, I spend some time explaining to them what the disease is, that it can progress to myelofibrosis, that it can progress to leukemia. But then I also try to reassure them as much as possible that this is an infrequent event, that the reason why we follow patients in-clinic is so that we can start to notice if there’s disease progression, that it usually happens gradually.

And then I try to say, “You have this information. We can’t necessarily change that at this moment, there are maybe some tools that we can use in the future, but try to put that information in a box in your brain, put the key, put it away, try not to think about that every day when you’re outside of here. Definitely okay to open that back up when you’re with me in the room. If you want to get those anxieties out, that’s fine, but let’s really try to make sure that that’s in the back and not at the forefront of our thoughts.” And kind of going back to one of the things we were discussing before about what the patient thinks is most important, what the clinician thinks is most important. If you ask patients what are they most concerned about with their MPN, oftentimes that response is, “Is my disease going to progress?” And so I think acknowledging that and talking about that is important, but then also reminding patients that over time, they need to, hopefully with your help, or maybe they need additional assistance with therapists or social workers, etcetera, let’s find a way to put that away so that it’s not really at the forefront of our thoughts every single day, because that also ends up being not productive.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

I love that approach, of providing the education, but also that balance that you talked about, Dr. Hobbs. I love the idea of putting it away, putting it in a box [chuckle] and locking it, and then opening it back up when you’re in the safety with your healthcare provider. That’s beautiful.

Do you have anything to add to that, Ms. Johnson? 

Natasha Johnson:

I completely agree. Your example there of putting it in the box, I’m going to use that in clinic. [laughter] I think it’s a great visual for patients. Because like you said, they’re very scared, and it can control them and take over, and we don’t want the disease to take over their life. Still live. Enjoy. 


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Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms?

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What non pharmacologic strategies for managing myeloproliferative neoplasms are recommended? Dr. Gabriela Hobbs shares her approach in talking with her patients.

Dr. Gabriela Hobbs is a hematology-oncology physician specializing in the care of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPN), chronic myeloid leukemia, and leukemia. Dr. Hobbs serves as clinical director of the adult leukemia service at Massachusetts General Hospital and is an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School. 

Natasha Johnson, is an Advanced Oncology Nurse Practitioner at Moffitt Cancer Center, where she cares for people living with MPNs with kindness, patience, and humanity. Natasha also speaks at conferences to educate other healthcare professionals about MPN care, research, and treatment. 

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See More from Empowering MPN Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP)

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HCP Roundtable Shared Decision-Making in Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Care

HCP Roundtable: Shared Decision-Making in Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Care

Transcript:

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Dr. Hobbs, are there any non-pharmacologic strategies that you endorse? And I’m asking you specifically because I think a lot of times, patients and care partners think that physicians aren’t well-versed in non-pharmacologic therapies or that we don’t endorse non-pharmacologic therapy. So I’m curious to know if there are any that you tend to recommend to your patients with MPNs.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

I love this question, and I’m glad to have an opportunity to talk about it, and I loved everything that Ms. Johnson said. For many years, I’ve felt in my practice like I’m a primary care doctor and I’m talking to patients about diet and exercise, [chuckle] especially for the patients that have essential thrombocythemia and polycythemia vera or low-risk myelofibrosis, those diseases really are diseases that I think about as another cardiovascular risk factor. And when we’re talking to patients that have cardiovascular risk factors, like obesity, like hypertension, like hyperlipidemia, diabetes, etcetera, what do we talk to them about? We talk about lifestyle modification. And I think that that fits in beautifully in the care of a patient with an MPN because there’s nothing like getting a diagnosis to take away control from your life. And so giving patients control back by saying, “Actually, you do have control over this disease by changing your lifestyle, by living an active healthy lifestyle and having a well-balanced diet,” I think can actually be very helpful.

One of the things that we don’t talk a lot about in MPNs, ’cause we’re focused on cell signaling and new fancy medications, is just the basics, lifestyle modification. And so I’m a huge fan of that holistic approach. I loved what Ms. Johnson said about, “Don’t let yourself be defined by this disease.” Let’s really find a way of improving your quality of life and maximizing how you live your days. And so I think talking to them about lifestyle modification is something that is really near and dear to my heart. We have a clinical trial now helping patients to really change their lifestyle, get more active and eat more healthily, and I think that those things are actually really, really important. Many of my patients, the first thing they do when they get diagnosed is they want to go and find that magical supplement that’s going to change their natural history of their disease. And although I can’t really say if any of those supplements are going to be helpful or not, I can for sure say that there is no harm, and there’s probably benefit to staying active and also to having a more plant-based, less processed food diet. And I think that that really goes a long way in terms of helping patients to improve their symptoms, feel less tired and feel less anxious, also feel like they have more control over what’s going on with them.


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Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden



Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can MPN providers best have conversations with their patients about symptoms? Dr. Gabriela Hobbs and expert Natasha Johnson share tactics and advice for assessing MPN patient symptoms.

Dr. Gabriela Hobbs is a hematology-oncology physician specializing in the care of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPN), chronic myeloid leukemia, and leukemia. Dr. Hobbs serves as clinical director of the adult leukemia service at Massachusetts General Hospital and is an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School. 

Natasha Johnson, is an Advanced Oncology Nurse Practitioner at Moffitt Cancer Center, where she cares for people living with MPNs with kindness, patience, and humanity. Natasha also speaks at conferences to educate other healthcare professionals about MPN care, research, and treatment.

Download Resource Guide

See More from Empowering MPN Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP)

Related Resources

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms?

HCP Roundtable Shared Decision-Making in Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Care

HCP Roundtable: Shared Decision-Making in Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Care

Transcript:

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Both of you have mentioned the importance of tracking symptoms, and so we want to shift and talk about strategies for managing disease burden, and I’d love to hear from each of you about what are your recommendations as you speak to MPN patients and their care partners about symptoms? How should other providers bring up those conversations and what are the best ways to really elucidate the symptoms that patients with MPN are having? So I’ll start with you, Dr. Hobbs.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

So this may sound obvious, but the first way of figuring out what symptoms a patient has is by asking, and it’s so interesting, right? There’s been studies comparing what symptoms are most important to patients and what symptoms clinicians think the patient have. And guess what, the clinicians don’t actually know which symptoms the patient has, or which symptoms are most important to the patient, and…so anyway, it sounds obvious, but it sometimes isn’t, and I think clinicians are busy and sometimes feel like having a tool to ask those questions is maybe too burdensome. I personally find that the MPN symptom assessment form is a quick form, it’s easy to complete, it can be given to a patient, there’s a piece of paper while they’re waiting for you.

And that also directs the conversation because it really just gives numbers, makes it objective, and then can really start that conversation. And so remembering that we do have this tool, it actually can help cut down time to the visit and make it more focused, and it’s helpful to…empowers the patient and make sure that you really are asking about all of those symptoms, and just making sure that you don’t just assume that a patient has or doesn’t have a symptom, but really saying, “Are there any other symptoms that you’ve noticed?” I’m trying to be really thorough because, honestly, MPN symptoms can manifest in so many different ways for our patients in addition to those 10 symptoms that are asked in the MPN symptom assessment form, and so trying to be thorough about those symptoms, I think, really important.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

And thank you for that and for highlighting sometimes this disconnect between the patients and the clinicians, and also the fact that what’s important to us may not be as important to the patient, and what’s important to the patient may get overlooked by us, and so again, it’s always going back to centering the patient and their experiences. Do you have anything to add, Ms. Johnson, with regard to talking to patients about their symptoms? 

Natasha Johnson:

Yes, I had to just laugh in on my head with what Dr. Hobbs said, ’cause it’s so true. With MPNs, numbers are a big deal in this world, and we can see a patient and just look at their numbers and think, “They look good,” and then you see them and they’re like, “I feel horrible.” And it just doesn’t relate. And so I agree with what she said, really going over what are the common symptoms and then thinking about, if they’re on treatment, is this like a medication side effect or is this a disease-related symptom, and then thinking just about comorbidity. So often our patients can have CHF or pulmonary hypertension that’s contributing to their symptoms, and so discussing that and trying to get those things managed.


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HCP Roundtable: Shared Decision-Making in Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Care

HCP Roundtable: Shared Decision-Making in Myeloproliferative Neoplasm (MPN) Care from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What does shared decision-making look like in myeloproliferative neoplasm care? How should fellow MPN specialists explain disease progression to patients and care partners? In this HCP-to-HCP roundtable discussion, experts Dr. Gabriela Hobbs and Natasha Johnson share best practices for helping your MPN patients play an active role in managing their health.

Dr. Gabriela Hobbs is a hematology-oncology physician specializing in the care of patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms (MPN), chronic myeloid leukemia, and leukemia. Dr. Hobbs serves as clinical director of the adult leukemia service at Massachusetts General Hospital and is an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School. 

Natasha Johnson, is an Advanced Oncology Nurse Practitioner at Moffitt Cancer Center, where she cares for people living with MPNs with kindness, patience, and humanity. Natasha also speaks at conferences to educate other healthcare professionals about MPN care, research, and treatment.

Download Resource Guide

See More from Empowering MPN Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP)

Related Resources

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms?

Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden

Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden

Transcript:

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Welcome to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients program. My name is Dr. Nicole Rochester, I’m a pediatrician and the CEO of Your GPS Doc. This program is for providers who desire to empower their patients and families. In this Patient Empowerment Network program, we connect MPN expert voices to discuss enhancing physician-patient communication and shared decision-making in MPN care. Some of the topics we’re going to cover today include how to help your MPN patients play an active role in managing their care, healthcare provider recommended strategies for managing disease burden to minimize disease impact on MPN patients’ lives, the importance of advanced practice clinicians on the health care team of MPN patients, clinical trials and the importance of nurses addressing this topic with their patients and families, as well as cultural humility in action.

I’m thrilled to be joined by MPN experts, Dr. Gabriela  Hobbs, Director of the Adult Leukemia Services at Massachusetts General Hospital and Assistant Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Dr. Hobbs leads multiple investigator-initiated clinical trials in MPN as well as non-interventional trials, assessing outcomes for patients with MPN.

I am also thrilled to be joined by Natasha Johnson, an Oncology Nurse Practitioner at Moffitt Cancer Center, where she cares for patients living with MPN. Ms. Johnson also works to educate other healthcare professionals about MPN care, research and treatment. Thank you both for joining me for this important conversation.

Natasha Johnson:

So glad to be here. Thank you.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

Thank you so much.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

So I’d like to start by talking about the MPN care team and best practices for shared decision-making. We hear a lot about shared decision-making in healthcare. I would say for some, it’s more of a buzzword than an actual practice. I’m sure that you all agree that it’s incredibly important and really a core for the type of care that we should provide patients and their families, so I’d love to hear from each of you about what does that actually mean? What does shared decision-making look like in myeloproliferative neoplasm care. And we’ll start with you, Dr. Hobbs.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

Great question. I think shared decision-making can take many different forms in many of our clinical encounters, and I think one of the luxuries that we have in myeloproliferative neoplasms is that a lot of the decision-making that we need to make doesn’t have to happen immediately, and we also have the luxury of really getting to know our patients over time. And so having that longitudinal relationship, I think really helps in shared decision-making, because I know who that patient is, I know what’s important to them, we get to know their families, and they’ve also gotten to know our care team throughout our relationship. But in general, when we do need to make a decision about treatment, using that foundation, I think is really what’s most important for shared decision-making.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

Oftentimes, patients are the drivers of a lot of these decisions and they’ll bring up the questions, but, of course, every patient is a little bit different, and sometimes I need to be more on the side of bringing up the questions, etcetera. So I think knowing where your patient is emotionally, what’s important to them, what are their worries, is really important, so you can have a conversation where you’re not just speaking about the things that you as a provider think is important, but really also listening to where the patient is coming from, and so that you can make sure that you’re appeasing their anxieties and whatever decision you make is consistent with both what you think is medically important, but also with what’s really important for the patients. I think listening is really at the core there.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Love that you highlighted listening. I think that’s something that we often don’t do enough of in healthcare, so thank you for that, Dr. Hobbs. What about you, Ms. Johnson? What are your thoughts about shared decision making in MPN care? 

Natasha Johnson:

Yeah, I agree with everything Dr. Hobbs said. I really believe it’s just…it starts with conversations and taking the time, making sure that you have the patient, you have the caregiver, if they can’t be there in person, sometimes you’re calling them on the phone. If it’s through Zoom visit they’re joining, and the health care provider, and I think that we spend a ton of time educating them to make sure that they really understand this disease, the symptoms that go along with it, the treatments that go along with that, and once we have a good confidence that they understand everything, lead them into discussing what their goals of care are, and then we take all that information together, and we create a treatment plan specific to that patient, really aiming to improve their quality of life and overall survival.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Awesome, so both of you spoke about the importance of listening and of really understanding the goals of the patients and their care partners, their family members, understanding their values, but we know that in reality, when you’re in that examination room and when you have all the distractions and all the competing priorities and the limited time, which is the thing I hear about most, I think, when I’m talking to colleagues, sometimes it can be difficult to put this into practice. So what can you share with fellow providers, maybe some tips or tricks or strategies that in face of all of those known barriers, how can they help patients take a more active role in managing their MPN? And we’ll start with you this time, Ms. Johnson.

Natasha Johnson:

All right, so one thing I would say is that here’s why I really think there’s a benefit to seeing an MPN expert that is at a national cancer center, academic center. I do think there is some more time allotted to those visits, especially the consults and first appointments for the patient, and we kind of start this with my doctor and other providers of assessing how much does the patient even know to begin with? So that can direct us where to start. And then how deep do they want to go. You know sometimes we have patients that they want to get down to the nitty-gritty and know all the scientific details, and other ones are like, Just lay it out for me easy. So really like assessing that from the beginning and then…so then start educating. Just like I said before, what does the disease look like, the symptoms, the treatment, alleviating symptoms, explaining that this is only cured by transplant. I think that’s really important to discuss right up front, and if they start treatment, usually treatment is indefinite. Of course, it’s changed depending on things, but educating them, so spending that time and then providing resources.

So we do this a lot by…I write a lot of things down for my patients when I see them, I think visuals are really helpful, provide literature, I tell them what websites to visit. A lot of times, they just will Google their doctor, which is great because they can find them and listen to their own lectures, and they really learn a lot. So just guiding them to those resources. I do think it’s important, too, to give them something like the total symptom score form. Just having that visual of, these are what is common, and then they can think about that between visits, but I think all of those things really help to educate them and get them involved.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Awesome, thank you for that, Ms. Johnson. What about you, Dr. Hobbs? Do you have any additional strategies that really help to empower patients to manage their care? 

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

I think everything that Ms. Johnson said was spot on, and I agree with everything that she said. A few additional things that I would add to that is reminding a patient that they don’t need to remember every single thing we talk about at every single encounter, this is an ongoing conversation and decision-making will happen over time, especially when we’re trying to make more difficult decisions about when or if they have to go to transplant, for example. Sometimes I have a conversation with my patients for years before they actually get a transplant. Other things that I think are helpful strategies is reminding patients that they can be in touch.

Nowadays, we have so many different ways of keeping in touch with our patients, they know how to call our practice nurses in our clinic, how to get in touch with the nurse practitioner that I work with the most, how to get in touch with me through the patient portal. And so, knowing that when that visit finishes, which sometimes does feel short, even if…like Ms. Johnson said, we do have the luxury of time more in academic centers, they’re still…the patients will invariably get out of the room, get in their car and be like, “Oh, I forgot to ask that one question.” And so reminding them that they can get in touch, and then helping them to prepare for their next visits to make the most out of those visits, especially for some of those patients that maybe don’t always necessarily come back to see me.

There are some patients that live far away, and then they maybe see me infrequently, talking to them about the symptom assessment form, like Ms. Johnson said, pointing them to the right direction in terms of literature and reminding them that, especially for those patients that are very symptomatic, for example, keeping track of their symptoms over time, writing down notes about how they felt, what they think made something better, made something worse, how they’re responding to these medications, questions that they may have, and writing all of that down helps them be more empowered patients. They can advocate for themselves in a more organized way when they do go see either me or another clinician. So they come in fully prepared with the information and the questions that they want to get out of that visit.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Perfect, thank you both. That’s really important. And so this leads nicely into our next topic, both of you have mentioned the importance of tracking symptoms, and so we want to shift and talk about strategies for managing disease burden, and I’d love to hear from each of you about what are your recommendations as you speak to MPN patients and their care partners about symptoms? How should other providers bring up those conversations and what are the best ways to really elucidate the symptoms that patients with MPN are having? So I’ll start with you, Dr. Hobbs.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

So this may sound obvious, but the first way of figuring out what symptoms a patient has is by asking, and it’s so interesting, right? There have been studies comparing what symptoms are most important to patients and what symptoms clinicians think the patients have. And guess what, the clinicians don’t actually know which symptoms the patient has, or which symptoms are most important to the patient, and…so anyway, it sounds obvious, but it sometimes isn’t, and I think clinicians are busy and sometimes feel like having a tool to ask those questions is maybe too burdensome. I personally find that the MPN symptom assessment form is a quick form, it’s easy to complete, it can be given to a patient, there’s a piece of paper while they’re waiting for you.

And that also directs the conversation because it really just gives numbers, makes it objective, and then can really start that conversation. And so remembering that we do have this tool, it actually can help cut down time to the visit and make it more focused, and it’s helpful to…empowers the patient and make sure that you really are asking about all of those symptoms, and just making sure that you don’t just assume that a patient has or doesn’t have a symptom, but really saying, “Are there any other symptoms that you’ve noticed?” I’m trying to be really thorough because, honestly, MPN symptoms can manifest in so many different ways for our patients in addition to those 10 symptoms that are asked in the MPN symptom assessment form, and so trying to be thorough about those symptoms, I think, really important.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

And thank you for that and for highlighting sometimes this disconnect between the patients and the clinicians, and also the fact that what’s important to us may not be as important to the patient, and what’s important to the patient may get overlooked by us, and so again, it’s always going back to centering the patient and their experiences. Do you have anything to add, Ms. Johnson, with regard to talking to patients about their symptoms? 

Natasha Johnson:

Yes, I had to just laugh in on my head with what Dr. Hobbs said, because it’s so true. With MPNs, numbers are a big deal in this world, and we can see a patient and just look at their numbers and think, “They look good,” and then you see them and they’re like, “I feel horrible.” And it just doesn’t relate. And so I agree with what she said, really going over what are the common symptoms and then thinking about, if they’re on treatment, is this like a medication side effect or is this a disease-related symptom, and then thinking just about comorbidity. So often our patients can have CHF or pulmonary hypertension that’s contributing to their symptoms, and so discussing that and trying to get those things managed.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Awesome, Dr. Hobbs, did you have something you wanted to add? 

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

Yeah. You know what I was thinking, we also have obviously very different personalities for our patients, of course, in addition for our clinicians, and there are sometimes patients that are very vocal, will come in and share every single symptom, and then we have some stoic patients that never complain, but for those patients, it’s very helpful to turn around and look at the spouse. And so you’ll ask the patient, “Are you tired?” “No, I’m fine.” “Are you whatever?” “No, everything’s okay,” and then the spouse is like, “But remember, you really haven’t been having your dinner, and remember how you were complaining about how your stomach was hurting every time you ate. And you say you’re not itchy, but every night when we’re watching TV, I turn around and I see that you’re scratching.” And so I think that’s also a really important tool to make sure that you make use of the family members, because they really know what’s going on if the patient is not willing to share as much or doesn’t like to complain. [chuckle]

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Oh, Dr. Hobbs, you are reminding me of my former caregiving experience. There were so many occasions where my dad, who did not have MPN by the way, but my dad would…he was that stoic person who would downplay everything, even though the entire car ride to the doctor’s office, he had been complaining, [chuckle] but in front of the doctor he was always fine.

Gabriela  Hobbs, MD:

Everything is fine.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Yeah, I was the care partner that was like, “But what about what you said 5 minutes ago?” So I appreciate you sharing that. We cannot overemphasize the importance of engaging with those incredible care partners. So you all both mentioned there are a lot of symptoms and those symptoms can really have an impact on patients and on their families, their care partners, what specific strategies can other providers use to explain how to minimize the disease impact of MPN? And I’ll start with you, Ms. Johnson.

Natasha Johnson:

Okay, so the number one symptom I hear is fatigue, and it has nothing really to do with hemoglobin, whether it’s normal or not. It’s so many factors that go into the disease, that cause it, and then also considering comorbidity, so I really try to encourage patients to be as active as possible. And we’ve seen with some of our solid tumors and studies that have been done when fatigue’s an issue, activity or physical exercise really seems to be the best way to combat that.

And I really try to encourage them. “Once you stop doing something and you sit down, it’s going to be hard to get back up and do it again. So pace yourself and do what you can.” But that is a big encouragement that I give. And then a second one I would say is diet. There’s been some new interest in looking at the Mediterranean diet, and that it has a possible benefit in reducing symptom burden in patients, so I think that’s something we can continue to look into, but it certainly can’t hurt a patient, especially when you look at cardiovascular risk factor, so just encouraging healthy diet. But I’m also a great advocate for, if they can eat, I want them to enjoy life and eat, too. So I go back and forth a little bit on that depending on the patient. And then just lastly, I really do encourage them to live, you know, live each day, continue living, and I have some patients that play pickleball several times a week and can be really active and enjoy that, and some, it’s just maybe having their neighbors over to play cards once a week, and that’s okay. Or their family, or their church community. Just an encouragement that if they’re living and trying to have healthy habits, I really think it can improve symptom burden.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Dr. Hobbs, are there any non-pharmacologic strategies that you endorse? And I’m asking you specifically because I think a lot of times, patients and care partners think that physicians aren’t well-versed in non-pharmacologic therapies or that we don’t endorse non-pharmacologic therapy. So I’m curious to know if there are any that you tend to recommend to your patients with MPNs.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:  

I love this question, and I’m glad to have an opportunity to talk about it, and I loved everything that Ms. Johnson said. For many years, I’ve felt in my practice like I’m a primary care doctor, and I’m talking to patients about diet and exercise, [chuckle] especially for the patients that have essential thrombocythemia and polycythemia vera or low-risk myelofibrosis, those diseases really are diseases that I think about as another cardiovascular risk factor. And when we’re talking to patients that have cardiovascular risk factors, like obesity, like hypertension, like hyperlipidemia, diabetes, etcetera, what do we talk to them about? We talk about lifestyle modification. And I think that that fits in beautifully in the care of a patient with an MPN because there’s nothing like getting a diagnosis to take away control from your life. And so giving patients control back by saying, “Actually, you do have control over this disease by changing your lifestyle, by living an active healthy lifestyle and having a well-balanced diet,” I think can actually be very helpful.

One of the things that we don’t talk a lot about in MPNs, ’cause we’re focused on cell signaling and new fancy medications, is just the basics, lifestyle modification. And so I’m a huge fan of that holistic approach. I loved what Ms. Johnson said about, “Don’t let yourself be defined by this disease.” Let’s really find a way of improving your quality of life and maximizing how you live your days. And so I think talking to them about lifestyle modification is something that is really near and dear to my heart. We have a clinical trial now helping patients to really change their lifestyle, get more active and eat more healthily, and I think that those things are actually really, really important. Many of my patients, the first thing they do when they get diagnosed is they want to go and find that magical supplement that’s going to change their natural history of their disease. And although I can’t really say if any of those supplements are going to be helpful or not, I can for sure say that there is no harm, and there’s probably benefit to staying active and also to having a more plant-based, less processed food diet. And I think that that really goes a long way in terms of helping patients to improve their symptoms, feel less tired and feel less anxious, also feel like they have more control over what’s going on with them.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Wonderful. That’s great to hear. So I wanted to shift again and start to talk about specifically disease progression. And we know that that is, unfortunately, something that is an important element of MPNs. And so as we talk to fellow MPN specialists, what are you all’s recommendations for how they can best explain disease progression to patients? Are there any specific languaging or specific tactics that you all use, and even things that maybe you shouldn’t say as you are sharing information about disease progression? Either one of you, feel free to go first.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

So disease progression, I think is a really challenging topic, because on the one hand, I think it’s really important to educate patients. It’s really important for patients to know that that is a possibility, that it is something that can happen. It’s really challenging to have a patient that has lived with this disease for a long time, hardly even knows the name of that disease. Maybe they were seen elsewhere, etcetera, and then all of a sudden, something’s going wrong and they just weren’t prepared for that. But I feel like that really does need to be balanced by the fact that, thankfully, progression happens infrequently. And so you also…going back to what we were saying before, you want to help a patient to be able to live well with these diseases and not be defined by those diseases. And so one of the things that I try to do with patients is, especially during that initial visit, I spend some time explaining to them what the disease is, that it can progress to myelofibrosis, that it can progress to leukemia. But then I also try to reassure them as much as possible that this is an infrequent event, that the reason why we follow patients in-clinic is so that we can start to notice if there’s disease progression, that it usually happens gradually.

And then I try to say, “You have this information. We can’t necessarily change that at this moment, there are maybe some tools that we can use in the future, but try to put that information in a box in your brain, put the key, put it away, try not to think about that every day when you’re outside of here. Definitely okay to open that back up when you’re with me in the room. If you want to get those anxieties out, that’s fine, but let’s really try to make sure that that’s in the back and not at the forefront of our thoughts.” And kind of going back to one of the things we were discussing before about what the patient thinks is most important, what the clinician thinks is most important. If you ask patients what are they most concerned about with their MPN, oftentimes that response is, “Is my disease going to progress?” And so I think acknowledging that and talking about that is important, but then also reminding patients that over time, they need to, hopefully with your help, or maybe they need additional assistance with therapists or social workers, etcetera, let’s find a way to put that away so that it’s not really at the forefront of our thoughts every single day, because that also ends up being not productive.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

I love that approach, of providing the education, but also that balance that you talked about, Dr. Hobbs. I love the idea of putting it away, putting it in a box [chuckle] and locking it, and then opening it back up when you’re in the safety with your healthcare provider. That’s beautiful.

Do you have anything to add to that, Ms. Johnson? 

Natasha Johnson:

I completely agree. Your example there of putting it in the box, I’m going to use that in clinic. [laughter] I think it’s a great visual for patients. Because like you said, they’re very scared, and it can control them and take over, and we don’t want the disease to take over their life. Still live. Enjoy. 

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Absolutely. So as we start to wrap up, we definitely want to address the role of advanced practice clinicians. We’re honored to have Ms. Johnson here with us, a nurse practitioner. And you mentioned earlier, Dr. Hobbs, that you work very closely with the nurse practitioner, so I’d love for you to share, Dr. Hobbs, the importance, in your professional opinion, of the role of advanced practice clinicians in MPN care. And how can fellow providers best leverage and utilize advanced practice clinicians? 

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

I love that Ms. Johnson is here with us. And I am thinking about Judy, the nurse practitioner that I work with the most. And honestly, without her and without the NPs that work in our clinic, I’m pretty sure that our clinic would fall apart, [chuckle] so I don’t have enough important…I really don’t have enough good things to say about the NPs or the advanced practice providers. They really play a huge role in the care of our patients and in so many different ways. I think sometimes a patient will feel more comfortable sharing some things either with the practice nurses or with the nurse practitioners. Sometimes having just a different perspective from another clinician is so helpful for the patient. Sometimes even if the two of us are communicating similar information, just to hear it slightly differently in another perspective can be really so helpful. Another thing that I think is also really essential about having that team approach is that when I’m away, if I’m on the inpatient service or Judy is away, [chuckle] the patients always know who they’re going to see when they come to the clinic. There’s that great continuity of care. And so I think the fact that there are two of us taking care of a patient as opposed to just me ends up really being very, very helpful for the patients, because they know that when they come to see us, they’re going to see somebody that really knows them longitudinally. And so two is better than one, honestly.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Two, absolutely better than one. And Ms. Johnson, how would you describe your role? Or maybe is there one example of how you partner with physicians and other members of the team, or maybe something that stands out for you that you’d like to share with the audience? 

Natasha Johnson:

Yes. So I work with two main physicians, and one of them is a MPN expert. And so he sees them in their consult initial visit. And then oftentimes, they’re following up with me for those more frequent visits. Our physicians are performing research, they’re teaching, so they’re not in clinic as many days a week as, like I am. And so I do see him more often and really get to know them. But I communicate with my physician almost on a daily basis. And because our relationship has grown, I think that he’s come to trust me to know that I can pick up on…when I’m concerned about disease progression, I know that I can go to him and talk to him, and he’s there. And then he also helps me to make…or he also trusts me to make more minor treatment decisions. But when things are a big deal, I call on him, and he’s there. Oftentimes, if the patient come in and we did not expect this and it’s obvious they’ve progressed, he’ll come into the room with me, and I really believe that makes the patient so much more comfortable. They enjoy seeing me. And we have a good relationship, but it’s different when it’s coming from your physician. And so yeah, we work really close, we communicate regularly. I try to ensure the patients of that. But I do develop very close relationships with patients, because I’m seeing them more routinely and more often.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

That makes perfect sense. It takes a team, right? I mean, we talk about healthcare teams, and that’s really what you all are describing, is teamwork in action. Lastly, I want to wrap up by talking about cultural humility. You all have spoken so eloquently about the importance of developing true, genuine relationships with patients and their care partners and valuing what’s important to them and bringing them into the shared decision-making. And we also know that our patients come with their own unique racial and ethnic and cultural backgrounds, and that sometimes, unfortunately in healthcare, we don’t take those things into consideration. So when we talk about cultural humility, we’re really talking about acknowledging a patient’s full, authentic self, their full, lived experiences, and also acknowledging our own biases that we bring to the table, listening to our patients and having that interest and that curiosity. So I’d love for you to either share an example of when you or a fellow provider were able to show cultural humility in action, or maybe a specific tip for the providers that are watching this program about how to truly incorporate cultural humility into your practice. We’ll start with you, Dr. Hobbs.

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

I love that question. And I think this is something that is a lifelong process for all of us, and I think it starts with awareness, really just recognizing that you bring your own background and bias into every encounter. And that’s okay. So I think sometimes we want to feel like we’re color blind and culture blind and that we see everything the same. But we have our own biases. And one example for me where that’s always true is, I’m a physician, but I’m also an investigator, and so, obviously, I have a bias towards research. For me, it’s obvious, yeah, of course, I’m wanting to participate in a clinical trial.

And I think you have to be aware of the fact that clinical trials come with all sorts of different opinions from patients, patients don’t like to be guinea pigs, there is mistrust, there’s all sorts of history in [chuckle] this country, especially about clinical trials. And I think coming into those encounters, like I said at the beginning of our conversation, taking into account that you really do know your patient. But sometimes, you don’t know the patient as well. You’re getting to know them, and you need to make a decision. Just listening, being humble, being aware, trying to understand where the patient is coming from, I think sometimes, especially when you’re trying to make a decision quickly and you find that there’s some friction, I think taking some time to say, “Alright, where is that coming from?” And perhaps I’m coming across too strong with this recommendation to do this clinical trial and there’s maybe something that I need to explore, and so just keeping an open mind and trying to just ask questions, “Where are you coming from? What’s important to you? Why are you hesitating? Or is there something that I can explain in a different way?” And really trying to get the whole picture of who that patient is and where they’re coming from. I think that’s probably a really important one.

Another example and I’ll let Ms. Johnson talk. 

It comes often in my practice, I speak Spanish and I realize the moment that I switch languages, for example, with a patient, the whole conversation can change. And so in some instances, I have the ability to truly get into that cultural mindset very well because it’s a culture that I’m very familiar, and so you can break those barriers more easily. But then there’s some other situations, or maybe a culture that I’m not as familiar with and I don’t speak the language, or I don’t speak to culture, and you need to keep that in mind and realize, “Okay, here, I don’t know exactly all the same custom,” so I need to take a step back, be humble and just ask a lot of questions, and just acknowledge that, and that’s okay.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. What about you, Ms. Johnson? Any examples or anything you want to reflect on regarding cultural humility.

Natasha Johnson:

Yes. When I think about this, I know that I have to go in prepared and be aware, so like educating myself on how does MPN affect this specific population, and with this culture, what are their values that they hold? And so when I’m going in to see the patient, just like Dr. Hobbs said, listening, being respectful, watching my body language, discussing all treatment options. And just two quick examples I can think about is, one, I’ve had a patient due to religious beliefs can’t take transfusions. And so a lot of times anemia is a big deal in our situation, and so really being creative with the treatments to not really worsen that and be okay with it. And you’d really be surprised how a patient can go around with a hemoglobin of like 5 and live normally when their body gets used to it. But I remember just that patient very well and having to respect that and understand it. And then the second is, I’ve had patients progress and they need to go to transplant or we need to do a bone marrow biopsy to really see where the disease is at right now. And in my mind, I think, “You’re fit. You feel good, like pushing these things,” and I have to step back and look at the patient and listen to the patient. And they’re telling me, “Right now for this, this or this reason, I don’t want to do this. And my priorities are over here.” And just really respecting the patient and still taking 100 percent great care of them through all that.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Well, this has been a phenomenal conversation. I really appreciate you all’s insight, your expertise. It’s time to wrap up. And you all have said a lot. You’ve talked about the importance of addressing symptoms, you’ve talked about getting to know patients and their care partners, you talked about the idea of centering our patients and their care partners and making sure that we understand their values, we’ve talked about disease progression, we’ve talked about holistic care and cultural humility. Do you have any closing thoughts, any one last thing that you want to leave with the audience as we wrap up this amazing program? We’ll start with you, Ms. Johnson. Any closing thoughts? 

Natasha Johnson:

I think of three things, assessing, educating and providing. So assessing your patient by listening, really getting to know them, seeing what they understand, educate them. Not to put fear in them, but to educate them so that they are well-empowered on their disease and how we’re going to move forward. And then providing them with resources regarding treatment with ways to alleviate symptoms so they can further their knowledge as well. So that way overall, we are aiming our goal to improve their quality of life and their overall survival.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Awesome. Thank you for that. And what about you, Dr. Hobbs? Any closing thoughts? 

Gabriela Hobbs, MD:

Hard to say anything better than what Ms. Johnson just said, [laughter] But the only thing I’ll add, which I think is really in the same message, is to remember that there’s a ton of hope, and I think our patients are nervous and they’re worried about this disease, but this field is changing rapidly there’s so many clinical trials in this space and new medications that are likely to be approved. That I think it’s important to remind patients that even though right at this moment, you know, the only curative treatment is a bone marrow transplant for those patients with myelofibrosis, I really do feel very optimistic that there’s going to be a lot of different treatments in the next couple of years that are going to be available for them. And so education is critical, and leaving those patients with hope at the end of each encounter is something that’s also really important.

Nicole Rochester, MD:

Well, I love that we’re ending the program with a message of hope. Thank you so much, Dr. Hobbs, Ms. Johnson, thank you for your time and thank you to all of you for tuning into this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients program. Have an amazing day.


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