Tag Archive for: venetoclax
An Overview of Current AML Treatment Types
Dr. Daniel Pollyea provides an overview of AML treatment options, explaining the choices between intensive chemotherapy and targeted therapies, while also discussing when stem cell transplants are considered.
Dr. Daniel Pollyea is Clinical Director of Leukemia Services in the Division of Medical Oncology, Hematologic Malignancies and Blood and Marrow Transplant at University of Colorado Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Pollyea.
Related Resources:
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AML Gene Mutations | Emerging Targeted Therapies in Development |
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Transcript:
Katherine Banwell:
Would you share an overview of the types of therapy for AML, and how do you decide which patient gets what?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yeah. Because things are very different at relapse too, but at diagnosis, the options still are intensive chemotherapy, which is a regimen that hasn’t changed much in several decades really, 50 years.
And then, there are other treatments. There’s a treatment called venetoclax (Venclexta) that we pair with a low-intensity chemotherapy treatment, either azacitidine (Vidaza), decitabine (Dacogen), or something called low-dose cytarabine (Cytosar U). Those are the three sort of partners for venetoclax.
And then, there’s a targeted therapy against leukemia cells that have an IDH1 mutation that’s called ivosidenib (Tibsovo) that we also give with low-dose chemotherapy. So, in most cases those are the sort of three general options. That last treatment that’s targeted against IDH1, we typically preserve that for older patients or those that really are not good candidates for intensive chemotherapy but who have that IDH1 mutation, which is only somewhere around 10 percent of AML patients.
And then, so then the main decision then is “Do we give intensive chemotherapy, or do we give the venetoclax regimen?” And our policy is sort of, if we think we can cure you within intensive chemotherapy, and there’s certain disease biology subtypes that can be cured potentially with intensive chemotherapy, then that would be our first choice for you.
If we don’t think we can cure you with intensive chemotherapy, if you don’t have that disease biology or if you do but you’re just not a candidate for that type of an approach, that’s when we give the venetoclax regimen.
Katherine Banwell:
Are there other targeted therapies that you use?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yes. So, venetoclax is a targeted therapy against Bcl-2. Unlike some of these other gene mutations, you don’t have to have something; there’s no mutation in Bcl-2 that you need to be a candidate for venetoclax. We give venetoclax pretty much to any potential AML patients. Genomically-targeted therapies: you mentioned FLT3. Before I mentioned IDH1. There’s also one for IDH2. We hope there’s a couple more of these coming. Where these are approved, for the most part, at the moment, are in the relapse setting.
So, a patient who receives a treatment, and then either doesn’t respond or responds and then relapses, that’s typically where we bring in these genomically-targeted therapies. There’s an exception for IDH1 that, like I said, can be used now in the upfront treatment setting. But for the most part, these genomically-targeted therapies are relevant in relapse disease.
Katherine Banwell:
When would you use stem cell transplant?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
So, stem cell transplant for the majority of AML patients is still the only potential way to cure this disease. And so, a stem cell transplant is something that we give for that purpose. It’s something that we really reserve for people whose disease is in a remission. So, nobody comes in at diagnosis and goes right into a stem cell transplant; that wouldn’t work. So, you first have to achieve a remission with any number of one of the combinations of things that we’ve already discussed.
But once the patient is in a remission and doesn’t have a curative strategy with, like, intensive chemotherapy or some other approach and is a good candidate for a transplant, which is a whole other sort of set of circumstances that has to be considered, that’s patients who we offer a transplant for.
Empowering Providers to Enhance CLL Patient Care
Empowering patients is at the core of efforts at Patient Empowerment Network (PEN), and work toward reducing health disparities is part of conversations among healthcare professionals. With this in mind, PEN has taken on a new initiative for chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL), the Empowering CLL Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP) initiative. The program multiplies PEN’s reach to healthcare professionals with the aim to improve physician-patient communication; shared decision-making; and the role that CLL patients, survivors, care partners, and healthcare professionals each play in the shared decision-making process.
The EPEP CLL initiative includes the following resources:
- Needs Assessment outlines key factors that enable patient empowerment, attributes of an empowered patient, and advice for healthcare professionals to perform a needs assessment for each patient.
- EPEP Roundtables with CLL experts Dr. Jennifer Brown, Dr. Callie Coombs, Dr. Daniel Ermann, and Dr. Andres Chang as they discuss a range of topics including how to help your CLL patients play an active role in managing their care, healthcare provider recommended strategies for managing disease burden, the importance of advanced practice clinicians on the CLL health care team, and ins and outs of clinical trials and communication about clinical trials.
- EPEP Resources includes the resource guide, infographics, blog, and other resources to improve patient care.
- EPEP Peer Insights with PEN’s Vice President of Programs Aïcha Diallo breaks down the differences between cultural competence versus cultural humility and barriers that HCPs may encounter and ways to overcome cultural humility barriers.
- EPEP Portal utilizes PEN’s robust resource library and that of numerous trusted advocacy partners to create a vetted list of patient education resources. PEN delivers a curated PDF according to your interests and delivers it efficiently to your inbox.
Key Takeaways for CLL Patient Care
PEN had the opportunity to interview CLL experts Dr. Jennifer Brown from Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, Dr. Callie Coombs from the University of California, Irvine, Dr. Daniel Ermann from Huntsman Cancer Institute, and Dr. Andres Chang from Emory University School of Medicine to learn about some of their expertise. They shared their views about essential ways that they work with patients to help empower them and to educate them about CLL mutations and side effect management.
A team-based approach is the ideal model for taking optimal care of CLL patients. Dr. Callie Coombs stressed the key roles that pharmacists, oncology nurses, and nurse practitioners play in CLL patient care. “…I think it comes down to your internal resources, but I would say taking care of CLL patients is clearly a team effort. And so it’s not just me, but also a team of additional practitioners that I work with. So I’d like to emphasize how important pharmacists are because I’ve definitely seen some side effects that come about because a patient is now on a medication that interacts with whatever their CLL therapy is, which drives up the levels of the drug and then brings out certain toxicities so they can help us identify these if perhaps I missed it or didn’t ask the patient about a supplement, et cetera.”
The advances in CLL treatment have expanded tremendously over the past several years leading to refined treatments. Expert Dr. Callie Coombs shared her perspective about how patient care has changed. “…CLL is a chronic disease that affects our primarily elderly patients, and so it’s a marathon, not a sprint. However, with all of the advances that we’ve had in excellent drug therapies, despite these resistance mutations, patients can attain many, many, many years of high quality of life. But it’s incumbent upon us as their providers to help ensure that quality of life through effective management of side effects that may be encountered over the course of their time on therapy for the patients that do need therapy.”
Switching treatments can be an effective method for resolving side effects in some patients. Dr. Callie Coombs discussed some changes she’s seen in some of her patients. “…I’ve had patients with chronic long-standing toxicities to ibrutinib (Imbruvica) that perhaps went underrecognized where I say, ‘Hey, I’ve notice your blood pressure has gone up a lot…Let’s switch you over to acalabrutinib,” or other patients, “Oh, you’ve had issues with atrial fibrillation…let’s try switching you to zanubrutinib.’..Because the rates are a lot lower and a lot of patients can have improvement or just complete resolution of the prior side effect. And so I hope that that emphasizes this is something that we think about every day, and switching is appropriate in the setting of intolerance.”
CLL Mutations and Side Effect Management
Although CLL is not defined by any specific mutation, CLL care providers see a large number of different mutations at low percentages. Dr. Jennifer Brown discussed how mutations can come into play with CLL treatment. “So at baseline, the most common mutations, which are somewhere in the 10 to 20 percent range of patients, although less than that if you have very early stage patients, affect the p53 gene, NOTCH1, SF3B1, and ATM. P53 is the most important because that one does influence our thinking about the patients and our choice of therapy in some cases.”
TP53 aberrations are especially vital in relation to chemotherapy. Dr. Callie Coombs explained the impact of these specific mutations. “…when patients have TP53 aberrations, whether that’s 17P or a TP53 mutation or both, given that they can occur in isolation or together, these patients should never get chemotherapy, because they have extremely terrible responses to chemo, and that should not be part of the therapies offered to these patients.”
Warning CLL patients ahead of time about common treatment side effects is recommended to help prepare them for treatment. Dr. Jennifer Brown explained some common side effects with her patients. “…headaches often happen early on when you initiate acalabrutinib (Calquence) but they go away typically very quickly. And so if patients know that, then they’re much less worried, and then you can talk to them about the strategies, because caffeine or acetaminophen (Tylenol) will often help with that. If you warn them that they may have some joint aches or pains, that can also help, since those are often transient…With venetoclax, warning them about some nausea or diarrhea, and then we often manage that by subsequently moving the drug to the evening after they’re done with their ramp up, or initiating an antiemetic, things like this.”
Dose adjustments to CLL treatment may prove to be a highly effective method of side effect management for some patients. Dr. Daniel Ermann shared his perspective about dose adjustments. “…I think dose reduction can make a big difference in the side effect profiles of these medications. I’ve seen reduced bleeding, for example, reduced rates of atrial fibrillation. With BCL-2 inhibitors, I’ve seen reduced rates of neutropenia, for example. And I’ll just say from my experience, I haven’t seen too much compromise in efficacy. So I think I would recommend for providers when you’re thinking about dose reduction, it’s really a balance of toxicity and efficacy. And I think with just how good our treatments are for CLL these days, I try to reduce toxicity. And I think in that way, it does maximize their efficacy.”
Dr. Andres Chang also shared his perspective on dose escalation and dose reduction in CLL patient care. “…whether to dose-escalate or dose-reduce really depends on the treatment we’re talking about. For new therapies like BCL-2 inhibitors such as venetoclax (Venclexta), we do dose escalation at the beginning of therapy to mitigate potential side effects such as tumor lysis syndrome, whereas in most of the other scenarios we will try to do dose reductions in order to mitigate adverse events.”
Even though CLL treatments have shown increases in the number and complexity of treatment options, vital HCP best practices can help further expansion in empowering CLL patients. How do we improve care of patients? And how do we work with dose adjustments and side effect management in patient care? We hope healthcare providers can take advantage of these timely resources of the EPEP initiative to work toward optimal and equitable treatment for all CLL patients.
Elevate | Expert Advice for Accessing Quality AML Care and Treatment
How can you access the best care and treatment for YOUR AML? Dr. Daniel Pollyea, an AML expert, discusses the importance of patient education, including understanding the available treatment options for AML, how test results may impact care, and he shares advice for advocating for yourself.
Dr. Daniel Pollyea is Clinical Director of Leukemia Services in the Division of Medical Oncology, Hematologic Malignancies and Blood and Marrow Transplant at University of Colorado Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Pollyea.
Related Resources:
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Expert Overview | AML Treatment Options and Phases of Therapy |
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Transcript:
Katherine Banwell:
Hello and welcome, I’m your host Katherine Banwell. Thanks for joining us for another webinar in the Patient Empowerment Network’s Elevate Series. The goal of these programs is to help AML patients and care partners feel educated and informed when making decisions with their healthcare team.
Before we get into the discussion, please remember that program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Well, let’s meet our guest today. Joining us is Dr. Daniel Pollyea. Welcome. Thank you so much for being with us. Would you introduce yourself?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yes, thanks so much for having me. I’m Dan Pollyea and I work at the University of Colorado where I lead the leukemia team.
Katherine Banwell:
Thank you so much for joining us today. As part of this new series we’re learning more about researchers like you. You’re on the frontlines of advancing AML care. What led you here and why is it important to you?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
I think my path is everyone’s, is distinct and a bit different.
In short, I think working in AML is one of the most exciting areas in medicine that a person can be in right now. It’s this incredible intersection between delivering potentially curative treatments to patients and sort of harnessing the most unbelievable research-driven sort of drug development, new therapies to patients. So, it’s just a really, really exciting time for all of us who work in the AML field because of all that those opportunities bring to bear.
Katherine Banwell:
Let’s start by having you define AML for the audience.
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
AML, acute myeloid leukemia, it’s a type of a cancer. You can think of it as a cancer of the bone marrow, and it’s the likely result of several abnormalities, or sometimes I call them mistakes that can occur in stem cells or a stem cell in the bone marrow. And those mistakes that occur, most times, we don’t understand why they happen.
In most cases, they’re completely out of a person’s control. This isn’t something that comes on because it runs in a family in most cases, or because of something somebody did or didn’t do. These appear to be pretty random events that occur. But these mutations that occur in these sort of stem cells in the bone marrow cause a cell to become a cancer cell.
And over a course of a variable amount of time, these can evolve and develop into this condition, AML.
Katherine Banwell:
Okay, thank you for that. Health literacy, which is defined by the ability to find, understand, and use information for health-related decisions, is essential. Would you expand on the term “health literacy” and why it’s important to accessing quality AML care?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yeah. So, I think health literacy in our field is a challenge, because these are acute conditions that come on oftentimes very quickly. And these are not diseases that are top of mind. Most people don’t know somebody who’s had this. They’re not common; only about 30,000 people every year in the United States will have AML. So, it’s very hard to have any sort of background in this.
And for most patients because of the pace at which this disease occurs, it can be very difficult to sort of read up on it before meeting with a provider or an expert or a specialist. So, there’s a lot of challenges or barriers to health literacy. But like anything, the more a person knows, the more sort of empowered they can be, the more ability they have to ask questions and seek care at sort of the optimal place.
What I find often is that health literacy is best harnessed by a patient’s team; so, in other words, their support system, their family and friends. Because it’s so much to deal with in such rapid succession, to get this diagnosis and to usually be feeling very poorly. To also be expected to sort of have read the most relevant literature and come armed with that information is often too much at the beginning.
So, in the beginning, I think it’s best to leave that to your support system, and then as time goes on and as you start treatment, get comfortable, health literacy in our field, it becomes a more prevalent issue. And I think that when patients learn the most about how the field has evolved and where we are, the better that they can potentially do.
Katherine Banwell:
Well, that leads us perfectly into my next question. What resources do you suggest for boosting knowledge about AML?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
AML is like so many fields in medicine, but probably more so, moving so quickly that sort of the usual Google search is not going to, in most cases, bring up the most important, the most relevant information.
So, I think that there are some organizations out there that do a really good job of educating patients. The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society is one. They have a good website.
They have people you can contact, and they have really good information that’s available to patients and their families. That’s where I typically recommend people start. And then from there, based on our interest in education level and things like that, there can be other resources. But I think The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society’s a great place to start.
Katherine Banwell:
Okay. Newly diagnosed patients and their care partners are often overwhelmed, as you mentioned earlier. What advice do you give them at their first appointment?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Right. So, this is a huge challenge. Anybody in the situation would be feeling like this. So, first of all, it’s sort of like, it’s okay to feel like this. It’s normal.
It would be unnatural to not be overwhelmed with what you’re going through; that’s an important message. And then, I think there’s this period of time between diagnosis and a plan that is particularly anxiety-provoking. And so, as your doctor and their team sort of sorts through the necessary information to get a plan together, just know that that this a very anxiety-provoking time when you’re being told that you have a really significant and serious disease, and we don’t have a plan yet.
So, making sure that you sort of comfort yourself during that period, knowing that that his temporary and that is potentially the worst anxiety you will feel, I think, can be helpful. And then, from there once the plan is sort of in place and enacting it, it really is just focusing on short-term goals.
So, instead of thinking three steps ahead and how’s the transplant going to work, in the early days, focusing on “Okay, how am I going to get into a remission?” and “How am I going to feel day-to-day? How can I feel as best I can day-to-day? What’s the best path to a remission?” And then, once you sort of meet the goal of remission, “Okay, what’s next? How are we going to cure this?” So, thinking through sort of in short bites, I think, is best.
Katherine Banwell:
Are there other key questions that they should be asking their doctor or their healthcare team?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yeah. Depending on the situation, this is a disease that can be cured; and so, from the first day, asking “Is that a possibility for me? Is there a curative plan for me, and what might that look like?” I think is an important question to ask from the beginning.
Making sure you communicate your goals and your wishes, how you define quality of life, what that means to you. And in that way, that can really help inform your doctor and their team to put together a plan that sort of is most customized to you.
Katherine Banwell:
That makes sense. Excuse me. When it comes to choosing AML therapy, it’s important to work with your healthcare team to identify what will be best for you. Would you walk us through the factors that are considered when choosing therapy for AML?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Sure, yeah. So, we now have options in treatments for this disease and for decades, that wasn’t the case. This was a one-size-fits-all type of disease. And in the last eight years, that has completely changed.
So, there are approaches and diagnosis that vary between very intensive chemotherapy and less intensive treatments. What we call “targeted therapies” in some cases can be considered or be appropriate.
And so, having a sense, after learning a little bit about this, of how much would you be willing to tolerate an intensive chemotherapy regimen and all the risks inherent in that, if that’s even being presented as an option, and if so, what does that look like? And if not, hey, what are the other options if that sort of doesn’t sound like something that you would be willing to accept? So, I think those kind of probing questions.
First, asking yourself and then sort of translating that into your treatment team, into “Hey, this is sort of how I define quality of life.
And these are some red lines that I wouldn’t cross,” that can really help the healthcare team because, again, this is not one-size-fits-all anymore. We do have several options to consider at the time of diagnosis.
Katherine Banwell:
What other factors would you take into consideration? Do you look at age and overall health and fitness, test results?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Absolutely. So, the relevant factors at the time of diagnosis would be, as you described, age, to some extent. And there’s no magic cutoff. “When a person is a certain age, this is no longer a treatment.” But age just gives us guidelines. Other comorbidities, other disease that you may be dealing with, things in your past, organ dysfunction; all those things are really, highly considered.
And also, sort of your own attitude toward “Hey, would I be okay with a month-long stay in the hospital or is that something that there’s no sort of outcome that that would be okay for me to withstand?” But then, the other huge part of this are things that are sort of, at diagnosis, unknown to you and unknown to your doctor for a little bit. And those are disease factors. So, what are the mutations that make up your disease? What’s making your disease tick? And now, just with normal clinical care, we have unbelievable access to this information. We can essentially learn within a week or two every relevant mutation that’s contributing to your disease.
And that helps us tremendously with respect to prognostication, sure, but also treatment selection because there are some treatments that will work, we think, better with certain disease biology, and other treatments that will work less well.
And we even have targeted therapies; so, based on particular mutations or other abnormalities, sort of a rationally designed therapy for exactly that disease biology. So, that is also a huge part of treatment selection, and we call those disease factors.
Katherine Banwell:
Why is molecular testing important following an AML diagnosis?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Right. So, this basically just gets into what we were just discussing. So, that molecular testing is the testing that will tell us all the mutations that make up your disease biology. And so, that is crucial for prognostication, but also treatment selection.
And frankly, also when thinking about how to potentially cure your disease, those will be factors taken into account to make decisions that are pretty significant, such as should you receive a bone marrow transplant at some point in the future or not. And the reason it’s so crucial to get this done at diagnosis is, after diagnosis, we start a treatment, and hopefully we put your disease into a remission.
And at that point, we no longer have access to your disease cells. They’re gone, or they’re too low to even measure. And so, we need to get this information at diagnosis so that we can have it later on so that we can really understand your disease and make the best treatment plan for you.
Katherine Banwell:
Right. We’ve covered this in past programs, but I think it’s worth reiterating. Would you define induction and consolidation therapy for the audience?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yeah. So, traditionally when we only had intensive chemotherapy treatments, induction meant “Let’s get your disease under control.” That’s the first sort of line of treatment. “Let’s induce a remission.” That’s where that comes from.
And then, consolidation meant “Let’s do more stuff, more chemotherapy to consolidate that remission,” or you can think of it as maintain that remission, deepen that remission. All those are sort of the same adjectives there. So, induction was step one. Consolidation was step two. We’ve retained a lot of this language into a time when we don’t only have intensive chemotherapy. So, we’ll still use the word induction sometimes to mean “Let’s get your disease under control, even if it’s not with intensive chemotherapy.” So, admittedly that can be very confusing, but if someone uses it in that manner, that what they’re talking about is “Let’s get your disease under control.”
And consolidation still meant “Let’s deepen your remission” or “Let’s prolong your remission.” So, those are the general terms. They’re very much linked to intensive chemotherapy, which we still use, but it’s not all we use anymore.
So, I think it has gotten confusing, and it’s perfectly reasonable to be confused about that terminology.
Katherine Banwell:
Would you share an overview of the types of therapy for AML, and how do you decide which patient gets what?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yeah. Because things are very different at relapse too, but at diagnosis, the options still are intensive chemotherapy, which is a regimen that hasn’t changed much in several decades really, 50 years.
And then, there are other treatments. There’s a treatment called venetoclax (Venclexta) that we pair with a low-intensity chemotherapy treatment, either azacitidine (Vidaza), decitabine (Dacogen), or something called low-dose cytarabine (Cytosar U). Those are the three sort of partners for venetoclax.
And then, there’s a targeted therapy against leukemia cells that have an IDH1 mutation that’s called ivosidenib (Tibsovo) that we also give with low-dose chemotherapy. So, in most cases those are the sort of three general options. That last treatment that’s targeted against IDH1, we typically preserve that for older patients or those that really are not good candidates for intensive chemotherapy but who have that IDH1 mutation, which is only somewhere around 10 percent of AML patients.
And then, so then the main decision then is “Do we give intensive chemotherapy, or do we give the venetoclax regimen?” And our policy is sort of, if we think we can cure you within intensive chemotherapy, and there’s certain disease biology subtypes that can be cured potentially with intensive chemotherapy, then that would be our first choice for you.
If we don’t think we can cure you with intensive chemotherapy, if you don’t have that disease biology or if you do but you’re just not a candidate for that type of an approach, that’s when we give the venetoclax regimen.
Katherine Banwell:
Are there other targeted therapies that you use?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yes. So, venetoclax is a targeted therapy against Bcl-2. Unlike some of these other gene mutations, you don’t have to have something; there’s no mutation in Bcl-2 that you need to be a candidate for venetoclax. We give venetoclax pretty much to any potential AML patients. Genomically-targeted therapies: you mentioned FLT3. Before I mentioned IDH1. There’s also one for IDH2. We hope there’s a couple more of these coming. Where these are approved, for the most part, at the moment, are in the relapse setting.
So, a patient who receives a treatment, and then either doesn’t respond or responds and then relapses, that’s typically where we bring in these genomically-targeted therapies. There’s an exception for IDH1 that, like I said, can be used now in the upfront treatment setting. But for the most part, these genomically-targeted therapies are relevant in relapse disease.
Katherine Banwell:
When would you use stem cell transplant?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
So, stem cell transplant for the majority of AML patients is still the only potential way to cure this disease. And so, a stem cell transplant is something that we give for that purpose. It’s something that we really reserve for people whose disease is in a remission. So, nobody comes in at diagnosis and goes right into a stem cell transplant; that wouldn’t work. So, you first have to achieve a remission with any number of one of the combinations of things that we’ve already discussed.
But once the patient is in a remission and doesn’t have a curative strategy with, like, intensive chemotherapy or some other approach and is a good candidate for a transplant, which is a whole other sort of set of circumstances that has to be considered, that’s patients who we offer a transplant for.
Katherine Banwell:
Okay. What about new and emerging treatments?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
So much that’s really exciting here. So, we’ve had several new approvals. We have a new FLT3 inhibitor that we can use for newly diagnosed patients who have a FLT3 mutation and who are getting intensive chemotherapy. We have, even now, a new therapy that’s given as a maintenance treatment. It’s called oral azacitidine or Onureg, which is really exciting as well.
But I think the next sort of big thing in the field is going to be a targeted therapy for another subset of patients who are defined by the presence of a gene mutation, NPM1, but also by a chromosomal abnormality, something we call KMT2A. But these patients have disease that’s potentially amenable to what we call a menin inhibitor. And there are several companies with menin inhibitors. These therapies are getting pretty far along. We expect approval potentially soon for at least one of them. And then, I think these are going to have a big impact on the field for those patients who have that type of disease.
Katherine Banwell:
Oh, that’s exciting news. Where do clinical trials fit in?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
So, clinical trials are crucial for everything that we’re trying to do. We don’t make any progress without clinical trials. So, that’s the field as a whole. We don’t move forward. We don’t get any of these new treatments without clinical trials.
On an individual patient level, clinical trials are also really important because, for many patients we are still not doing as well as we want to be doing with this disease. We’ve made progress, but there’s still a lot of room for improvement. And so, for an individual patient, getting access to another therapy that, although we admit we don’t quite know yet whether it may be helpful but might be helpful, I think, is a really compelling situation to potentially consider participating because it is a guarantee you will help the field; and it’s a guarantee you will help every patient that comes after you through participation in clinical trial.
But all these clinical trials are also designed to help you; to help you in a situation where we as a field don’t feel like we’re doing well enough. So, clinical trials, totally crucial if we’re going to continue making progress.
And clinical trials are the reason why these last 10 years we have had such just dramatic improvement in availably of all these new therapies because literally thousands of patients have chosen to participate.
Katherine Banwell:
How can patients find clinical trials that might be right for them?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
So, back to The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. They can be really helpful in guiding this. Asking your doctor, “Hey, are there any clinical trials her or at any other center that I should be considering?” And then, people who are interested in just going to the source. Every clinical trial that is available is registered at clinicaltrials.gov. And so, going to clinicaltrials.gov and then putting in some keywords like “acute myeloid leukemia,” you’ll see every clinical trial that’s available.
Katherine Banwell:
Oh, that’s excellent. I’d also like to add for our viewers that if you’re interested in learning more about AML care and treatment, PEN has a number of resources available to you.
You can find these at powerfulpatients.org/AML or by scanning the QR code on your screen.
So, Dr. Pollyea, when choosing a therapy what questions should patients be asking their healthcare team about a treatment plan?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
So, at the time of diagnosis I think it’s a reasonable question to say, “Is my disease amenable to a cure? Can I be potentially cured?” and “Is this treatment part of a plan for a cure?” If that is possible, then I would want to be walked through the steps that that’s going to executed. And if it’s not possible for me to be cured, then I would like to discuss what is the treatment plan that could potentially give me the longest duration of a remission and the best quality of life. And so, that’s the conversation that I think is important to have.
And then, everything that we discuss comes into play there; an individual’s sort of appropriateness for intensive chemotherapy versus less intensive regimens, and also the disease biology and what that maybe make them a candidate for.
Katherine Banwell:
Are there certain symptoms or side effects a patient should share with their care team?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Yeah. So, we have a very, very sort liberal request that really anything, it should be shared. We have a 24/7 number to call with one of us on-call at all times. So, it’s very difficult for a patient to kind of be able to appreciate, when they’re going through such dramatic changes, “Hey, is this expected or not?” So, we really emphasize oversharing concerns about symptoms.
All these drugs have very different side effect profiles, and some of them are common and some of them are less common. The disease itself can cause symptoms and clinical issues. So, instead of really trying to educate yourself in an impossible way on what could be or is not related, it’s better just to ask.
Katherine Banwell:
What is the role of a care partner when someone is in active treatment?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Having a care partner is crucial. This is physically and mentally extraordinarily stressful on the body and on the mind. Having that support person for those purposes is really important. Having that person be an advocate for a patient to ask those questions that may not be getting asked, to reframe questions to get the best answers is really, really important.
And then, there’s the more mundane things; just getting patients to their appointments and kind of keeping their morale up and those things. So, there’s data and research on this that patients with caregivers, they have better outcomes. When it comes to a transplant, a caregiver is not an option. You must have a caregiver. And the importance of that will be sort of relayed to you in the context of a discussion about a transplant. But a caregiver in the setting of a transplant is so important that it is a requirement to even be considered for that.
Katherine Banwell:
Sounds like that’s vital. I’d like to get to a few audience questions that we received before the program. Chris sent in this question: I would like to hear more about mutations found during molecular testing. Are there new AML drugs in trials for other less common mutations?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Great question. So, at the moment, what we have clinically available are targeted therapies for patients with FLT3 mutations, IDH1, and IDH2 mutations.
And there are about 50 different genes that can be mutated in AML, and so that’s a small slice of the pie. Those are relatively common mutations, but still, small slice of the pie. A lot of the very uncommon or less common gene mutations we don’t have great paths to targeted therapies for them. And is that just we never will? I don’t think necessarily, but I think those can be really challenging. Not every mutation is amenable to a targeted therapy, at least as far as we know now. The one that’s coming, that we’re hopeful about is NPM1, which may be able to be targeted with one of those menin inhibitors that we talked about. So, that’s the next big one up.
And that will probably constitute 40 percent of patients that have one of those mutations that I listed. But research is ongoing to kind of try and dig into this more. What I will say is that the AML research community is so fantastic that every lead is being pursued, and there is a lab somewhere in the world whose focus is on whatever small, even the most least common AML mutation; that’s somebody’s focus.
And so, if there were to be promising therapies developed for even rare mutations, I assure you, the field would take those forward and figure out a way to do those clinical trials and to get to approval if it’s appropriate. So, but I think that’s where the landscape is right now.
Katherine Banwell:
This question comes from Rita: Outside of changes in bloodwork, what are signs that AML is returning?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Great question.
So, this can be a really tough one, and bloodwork is what we sorta hang our hat on. There are some times that patients sort of have clinical symptoms that proceed changes in bloodwork. I will say, I find that to be pretty uncommon. But some of the things that are pretty rare but might happen, would be leukemic involvement of the skin; so, it would appear as a rash. Some people might have some fatigue that comes on before the blood counts really change. That’s also pretty rare.
And then, if this disease were to work its way into any other organ or tissue in the body, and that’s rare, it’s possible that that could present with clinical signs and symptoms before a blood count change. But for the most part, the blood counts are really early sign that something is changing, and typically we’ll see that before any clinical signs.
Katherine Banwell:
Thank you for that, Dr. Pollyea, and those were great questions. Please continue to send them to question@powerfulpatients.org, and we’ll work to get them answered on future programs. So, as we close out the program, Dr. Pollyea, what would you like to leave the audience with? Why are you hopeful that about the future of AML care and treatment?
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Well, we’ve made unbelievable progress in just the last 10 years. And so, just looking into the future, I see nothing stopping that progress. So, it’s really exciting to think about where we’ll be two, five, 10 years from now. We never could have envisioned 10 years ago where we are now in terms of the therapies we have, how active and effective they are, and the impact that it’s had on patients.
Again, just so proud to be part of this community, both on the patient care side and on the research side. It’s such a committed group of people, working around the clock on this disease to figure it out and to make some improvements. For all those reasons, I’m just super hopeful that we’ll just keep making progress, and I see no signs of anything slowing down.
Katherine Banwell:
That’s a promising outlook to leave our audience with. Dr. Pollyea, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Daniel Pollyea:
Thanks so much for having me.
Katherine Banwell:
And thank you to all of our collaborators. To learn more about AML and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for being with us today.
Optimizing Dosing Strategies in CLL: Insights for Healthcare Providers
Optimizing Dosing Strategies in CLL: Insights for Healthcare Providers from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What can CLL healthcare professionals do to better understand novel therapy dosing? Expert Dr. Daniel Ermann from Huntsman Cancer Institute discusses how CLL treatment dosing typically begins and common situations when dose adjustments are made.
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Related Resources:
Transcript:
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
How do CLL healthcare providers better understand dosing, particularly with the emergence of novel CLL therapies?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
So I think nowadays, most of us in the CLL community, we’re really no longer using chemotherapy. We’re using, like Dr. Chang said, we’re sticking to these novel agents, BCL-2 inhibitors, BTK inhibitors in the frontline setting. All of these medications have been studied to the optimal dose in their respective trials.
And for the most part, we start every patient, except for the venetoclax (Venclexta) ramp-up, we start all patients at the optimal dose for what we think for them is the maximum tolerated dose in the studies, which is the dose seen in the FDA package inserts and the recommended starting dose.
So I think for most patients, generally we start at what dose that is recommended. And then the only time we really begin to dose-reduce is as Dr. Chang mentioned, if we’re seeing side effects or intolerance. So these are things that I always start looking at very early when I start patients on treatments. I check in with my patients within the first two weeks of them starting a BTK inhibitor. And then during the venetoclax ramp-up with BCL-2 inhibitors, I keep a very close eye on them.
So I think though these novel therapies are extremely effective at treating CLL, they do come with some toxicities. And it’s important to be aware of the toxicities, to keep an eye on the patients when you start them and know what the dose reductions are and how to effectively manage them.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. And I just want to acknowledge and thank both of you for highlighting the importance of partnering with patients, particularly in an Empowering Providers to Empower Patients program. We understand that this is a partnership between the healthcare providers and the patients. And so I appreciate both of you really highlighting the importance of engaging with the patients and then making necessary adjustments.
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Optimizing CLL Therapy: Strategies for Dose Escalation and Reduction
Optimizing CLL Therapy: Strategies for Dose Escalation and Reduction from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What’s the reasoning behind CLL therapy dose escalation and dose reduction? Expert Dr. Andres Chang from Emory University discusses common treatment scenarios when dose escalation and dose reduction are used in CLL patient care.
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Transcript:
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
As the treatment landscape evolves for CLL, for some patient populations that need therapy, what is the rationale and evidence behind both dose escalation and dose reduction?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Well, so I think that the question of whether to dose-escalate or dose-reduce really depends on the treatment we’re talking about. For new therapies like BCL-2 inhibitors such as venetoclax (Venclexta), we do dose escalation at the beginning of therapy to mitigate potential side effects such as tumor lysis syndrome, whereas in most of the other scenarios we will try to do dose reductions in order to mitigate adverse events.
In all of these patients and in all of these cases, we do take into account the patient’s comorbidities. In the case of venetoclax, for instance, we think of whether patients have kidney dysfunction, and in the case of BTK inhibitors whether they have concomitant heart disease, hypertension, whether they are on anticoagulation, and also we take into account what other medications they have, in particular whether they have medications that affect their cytochrome P450 system.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Is there anything specific that you think healthcare providers need to know with regard to dose escalation and dose reduction?
Dr. Andres Chang
So dose escalation in terms of venetoclax initiation is, we already have a pretty well-established protocol that is on the label of the medication, and this is really mainly to mitigate the risk of tumor lysis syndrome. And in terms of dose reduction, I think it really depends again on which therapy we are talking about and also on which particular side effect we’re talking about.
And so I really encourage all the providers to really inquire and look into what potential side effects the patient might have so that you can adequately address this, because each side effect can be addressed or should be addressed with a different kind of strategy.
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HCP Roundtable: Fine-Tuning CLL Dose Modification and Side Effect Management Strategies
HCP Roundtable: Fine-Tuning CLL Dose Modification and Side Effect Management Strategies from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What is the rationale and evidence behind dose optimization approaches in CLL treatment? What role does patient education play in recognizing and managing CLL treatment-related side effects? Dr. Andres Chang of Emory Healthcare and Dr. Daniel Ermann of Huntsman Cancer Institute discuss optimizing CLL care and the importance of empowering your CLL patients during their treatment journey.
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Related Resources:
How Can CLL HCPs Gain More Understanding of Mutation Profiles? |
CLL Expert Updates on Diagnostic Tool and Technology Advances |
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Transcript:
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Welcome to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP) program. I’m your host, Dr. Nicole Rochester. EPEP is a Patient Empowerment Network program that serves as a secure space for health care providers to learn techniques for improving physician-patient communication and overcome practice barriers. In this CLL roundtable, we are exploring fine-tuning CLL dose modification and side effect management strategies.
As the chronic lymphocytic leukemia treatment landscape evolves, we’re going to talk about the rationale and evidence behind dose optimization approaches in CLL treatment for those who may need therapy. We’ll also discuss strategies for dose modifications to mitigate adverse events while maintaining treatment efficacy, as well as approaches that are transforming CLL side effect management.
It is my honor and privilege to be joined by Dr. Andres Chang, Instructor in the Department of Hematology and Medical Oncology at Emory University School of Medicine. Dr. Chang specializes in treating patients with hematological malignancies including leukemia and lymphoma. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Chang.
Dr. Andres Chang:
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
It is also my pleasure to be joined by Dr. Daniel Ermann, Assistant Professor in the Division of Hematology and Hematologic Malignancies at the Huntsman Cancer Institute. Dr. Ermann specializes in the treatment of patients with chronic lymphocytic leukemia and other forms of Hodgkin’s and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and he is passionate about working towards a cure. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Ermann.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
So let’s start the conversation with dose modification, and I’m going to start with you, Dr. Chang. As the treatment landscape evolves for CLL, for some patient populations that need therapy, what is the rationale and evidence behind both dose escalation and dose reduction?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Well, so I think that the question of whether to dose-escalate or dose-reduce really depends on the treatment we’re talking about. For new therapies like BCL-2 inhibitors such as venetoclax (Venclexta), we do dose escalation at the beginning of therapy to mitigate potential side effects such as tumor lysis syndrome, whereas in most of the other scenarios we will try to do dose reductions in order to mitigate adverse events.
In all of these patients and in all of these cases, we do take into account the patient’s comorbidities. In the case of venetoclax, for instance, we think of whether patients have kidney dysfunction, and in the case of BTK inhibitors whether they have concomitant heart disease, hypertension, whether they are on anticoagulation, and also we take into account what other medications they have, in particular whether they have medications that affect their cytochrome P450 system.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Chang. Is there anything specific that you think healthcare providers need to know with regard to dose escalation and dose reduction?
Dr. Andres Chang:
So dose escalation in terms of venetoclax initiation is, we already have a pretty well-established protocol that is on the label of the medication, and this is really mainly to mitigate the risk of tumor lysis syndrome. And in terms of dose reduction, I think it really depends again on which therapy we are talking about and also on which particular side effect we’re talking about. And so I really encourage all the providers to really inquire and look into what potential side effects the patient might have so that you can adequately address this, because each side effect can be addressed or should be addressed with a different kind of strategy.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful. Thank you, Dr. Chang. Dr. Ermann, I’m going to come to you. How do CLL healthcare providers better understand dosing, particularly with the emergence of novel CLL therapies?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Yeah. Thank you so much for the question. So I think nowadays, most of us in the CLL community, we’re really no longer using chemotherapy. We’re using, like Dr. Chang said, we’re sticking to these novel agents, BCL-2 inhibitors, BTK inhibitors in the frontline setting. All of these medications have been studied to the optimal dose in their respective trials. And for the most part, we start every patient, except for the venetoclax ramp-up, we start all patients at the optimal dose for what we think for them is the maximum tolerated dose in the studies, which is the dose seen in the FDA package inserts and the recommended starting dose.
So I think for most patients, generally we start at what dose that is recommended. And then the only time we really begin to dose-reduce is as Dr. Chang mentioned, if we’re seeing side effects or intolerance. So these are things that I always start looking at very early when I start patients on treatments. I check in with my patients within the first two weeks of them starting a BTK inhibitor. And then during the venetoclax ramp-up with BCL-2 inhibitors, I keep a very close eye on them.
So I think though these novel therapies are extremely effective at treating CLL, they do come with some toxicities. And it’s important to be aware of the toxicities, to keep an eye on the patients when you start them and know what the dose reductions are and how to effectively manage them.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. And I just want to acknowledge and thank both of you for highlighting the importance of partnering with patients, particularly in an Empowering Providers to Empower Patients program. We understand that this is a partnership between the healthcare providers and the patients. And so I appreciate both of you really highlighting the importance of engaging with the patients and then making necessary adjustments.
So, Dr. Chang, can you speak to any unforeseen or outdated practice-related barriers that may actually hinder your work and that of your colleagues as it relates to understanding CLL dosing?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, even though most of us in the CLL community have already moved to these novel targeted therapies, we do occasionally still see patients are referred to our centers who have undergone frontline chemo-immunotherapy, which for the vast majority of the patients nowadays, there really shouldn’t be an indication for that sort of treatment anymore. And so I think one of the main limitations is that we are using or at least some providers are using frontline chemo-immunotherapy and by doing so, they negate the great benefits that these novel targeted therapies have, particularly again in frontline setting.
Other unforeseen or outdated practices might be related to how patients, how we optimally mitigate the tumor lysis risks. And also occasionally, we might see some referrals from community practice physicians with patients who have CLL, and they have recurrent cytopenias or persistent cytopenias while in therapy, and they attribute it to toxicity of the therapy. Where in reality, if you do a bone marrow biopsy, they might be having a lot in the bone marrow, and that might be the answer for this particular so-called toxicity, but in reality it’s actually disease progression.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Chang. So, Dr. Ermann, based on what Dr. Chang just shared and some of these, sounds like maybe knowledge or practice gaps, what are some solutions? How can we begin to bridge these gaps so that patients are receiving the best of the best with regard to therapy?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
So there’s a little bit of, I would say that there can be a little bit of delay in certain providers changing their practice to the current academic approach. I think that from what I’ve seen, the best way to manage it is when patients are seen in the community by providers, I personally have quite a good relationship with many community providers in the community setting. And I encourage those providers if they get a new patient diagnosed with CLL, to recommend a CLL consultation.
And I would advocate that the patients also look into their disease and see whether or not a CLL consultation with an expert in the field of lymphoma or CLL may be good for them. And in those ways I’ve seen, personally I co-manage many patients across the Western United States. They’re still able to be seen by their local oncologist and also be seen for consideration of clinical trials in the CLL space when indicated for their more rare disease.
So I do think it comes from both providers and patients, but I think empowering your patients, letting them know that there are other doctors who may specialize in a condition that they have is really important. And when patients do that, not only are they happy, their local oncologist is happy. It makes it kind of better for everyone.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Ermann. I love that idea of a team-based approach. Thank you so much. Well, let’s move into talking about side effects. And you all have already alluded to the importance of dose modification with regard to side effects and minimizing toxicity. So I’m going to go to you, Dr. Ermann. What techniques do you use in your practice for optimizing treatment efficacy while minimizing toxicity? And feel free, if you’d like, to share a specific example.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Yeah. Great question. So in CLL, there are a lot of unique toxicities with our CLL-directed therapies. I’ll take, for example, BTK inhibitors. So BTK inhibitors have certain off-target effects. The way these medications work is they turn off BTK, and that’s like flipping a switch that decreases the growth of the CLL cells and eventually causes them to die. However, some of the unique toxicities we see are things like atrial fibrillation, bleeding, bruising, infections, to name a few.
So, for example, you would like to start a patient optimally on the maximum dose, which is the kind of recommended starting dose. However, let’s say a patient gets a side effect such as bleeding or atrial fibrillation, I usually will follow the package insert pretty closely. In most cases, the recommended management is to hold the drug until a side effect resolves and then resume at the same dose. In my practice, I found that with many of our novel therapies, there are some cases where you can continue the same dose, but oftentimes you’ll need to dose-reduce.
And I will say from my personal experience, I think dose reduction can make a big difference in the side effect profiles of these medications. I’ve seen reduced bleeding, for example, reduced rates of atrial fibrillation. With BCL-2 inhibitors, I’ve seen reduced rates of neutropenia, for example. And I’ll just say from my experience, I haven’t seen too much compromise in efficacy. So I think I would recommend for providers when you’re thinking about dose reduction, it’s really a balance of toxicity and efficacy. And I think with just how good our treatments are for CLL these days, I try to reduce toxicity. And I think in that way, it does maximize their efficacy.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. What about you, Dr. Chang? How do you approach dose adjustments for CLL patients, particularly those who may be experiencing severe side effects? And what factors influence your decision-making process?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, so first of all, I agree with Dr. Ermann that I think trying to mitigate side effects and oftentimes following the package insert is really, really helpful. One of the things that I want to add, though, is I do spend quite a bit of time before starting any medication, educating patients and trying to teach them about what potential side effects, what to look for. And importantly, if there are mechanisms to mitigate or prevent those side effects, I will spend quite a bit of time talking about that. And these can be things such as taking caffeine to prevent an acalabrutinib-induced (Calquence) headaches, for example, maintaining adequate fluid intake and hydration to minimize the risk of tumor lysis, and so forth.
I find that by spending that time with patients ahead of starting therapy, that oftentimes it allows patients to identify the side effect and also start addressing it even before needing to come back to the clinic. My team, in addition to myself, also spends quite a bit of time, and we perform phone calls, follow-up phone calls, and things like that, that are conducted by my pharmacist or by my nurse. And together, I find that oftentimes just by talking through these potential issues, patients will feel a lot better.
Now, depending on how severe an adverse event is, or a side effect is, I tend to potentially dose-reduce somewhat quicker. Or if there’s an alternative, like in the case of BTK inhibitors, I will be a little bit more prone to switching from one BTK inhibitor to another, because there is data suggesting that if you don’t tolerate one BTK inhibitor, you can tolerate a second one.
And that’s particularly true if we are seeing some of these side effects that arise in the long term, particularly with ibrutinib (Imbruvica), and switching them to acalabrutinib or zanubrutinib (Brukinsa), oftentimes resolve those kinds of side effects. And I’ve seen that particularly true in cases where I see hypertension induced by ibrutinib (Imbruvica). I have a couple of patients where they are four or five years into ibrutinib therapy, came in with uncontrolled hypertension, I switched them to another BTK inhibitor, and the hypertension gets better controlled.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Chang. I just really appreciate again how both of you are continuing to highlight the importance of a multidisciplinary team. So the importance of involving the patients, educating the patients, both ahead of time and as you’re beginning treatment. And also, you mentioned bringing in the pharmacists and bringing in your nurses and all of the other members of the support team. So I really, I really appreciate that. And speaking of patient education, Dr. Ermann, I’d love for you to share if you can have any ideas around the role that patient education plays in recognizing and managing treatment-related side effects.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Yeah, absolutely. So I’m a big advocate on educating patients, and I completely agree with what Dr. Chang mentioned. I think prevention is the key. I think the more work you can do up front to improve the outcomes down the road, the better. So in my experience, what I do for my patients in the clinic when it comes to education is I actually, I do quite a bit of, quite a few things. So I not only do I myself personally educate the patient on the drug, I also have my pharmacist meet with the patient either in person or over the phone depending on where things are at. I also print out handouts, because occasionally we hear a lot of things and as patients, sometimes it can be overwhelming, even as doctors, it can be overwhelming hearing a lot of things at once.
So I like to print things out for my patients, whether it be from UpToDate pages, whether it be from things like the websites that have drug information like Chemocare, etcetera etcetera. And I also utilize kind of these free sheets that you can find throughout…from many different organizations such as, like Lymphoma Research Foundation or others that have drug information, safety information.
And then I also recommend them easy ways to contact us, whether it be through like a messaging app or calling our office with questions. I think that educating your patients on what to expect with these drugs is really important. Fortunately in CLL, a lot of our medications, though there are some unique toxicities, are overwhelmingly much better tolerated than many other therapies for other cancers. So that is one good thing. So you want to give them enough information, but you don’t want to scare them to thinking that they’re going to have the worst of every situation, but I think it’s very important, especially up front, and then most patients will see how different drugs affect them.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Ermann. I love that you’re offering multiple different ways, because like you said, some people may be auditory learners. Many of the patients, when they’re hearing this information for the first time, as you alluded to, they’re going to be overwhelmed. They’re not going to remember. So I love the idea of also leaving them with something in writing that they can refer to later. What about you, Dr. Chang? You’ve been doing this for a while now. Are there any specific strategies or something that works really well for you, a particular tactic as it relates to educating your patients about side effects?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more with Dr. Ermann. I spend quite a bit of time, again, speaking directly to my patients, having my team speak to my patients, and I follow many of the similar strategies that Dr. Ermann has already mentioned. In particular, places like Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, Leukemia Lymphoma Research Foundation, the CLL Society, all those societies have a wealth of information about the different treatments and approaches that we normally use for CLL. And I find it very useful that as part of our discharge paperwork from clinic, we do include links to those societies so that they can find additional information.
And aside from that, I think once you have a good rapport with a patient and your team has a good rapport with a patient, as long as there’s good communication either through the patient portal, through phone calls, through return visits, I find that once patients are very well-educated, then they are actually very comfortable starting therapy and pretty much know exactly what to expect at each step in the therapy. Whether it is a dose escalation week for venetoclax, for example, or what happens when we have to hold a medication for a procedure, when to restart, and those sorts of things.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful. Thank you both. Well, we’ve talked about the importance of educating patients. We’re going to circle back to our healthcare providers. And, Dr. Chang, I’m going to stay with you for a moment. Can you share any successful strategies for healthcare provider to healthcare provider education, any innovative approaches with regard to side effect management in CLL?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, I think that as important as educating patients, educating other healthcare providers is as critical. And as such, I think one of the missions that we have at academic institutions is that we should also offer some educational aspect to our consultant physicians across the community or nurse practitioners or nursing staff.
And so one of the things that I commonly do is that my notes tend to have a couple of paragraphs that explain my rationale behind the recommendations with sources, primary sources of information if they want to look up any particular data where I’m basing my decision on. And that happens both in terms of picking this treatment versus this other treatment, what is the efficacy data, but also for side effect and adverse events data.
I also, as part of the Winship Cancer Institute, we have a big outreach program to our community. And I’m sure Dr. Ermann has [this] too over at Utah, where we have outreach programs and reach out to other community oncologists, trying to give them information about the newest and latest therapies. We do symposia. And we also have an app where community oncologists can actually look us up directly and give us a call or something that, in case they run into problems.
And then we are happy to talk to them and help guide the management of their particular patients. I find that this kind of verbal communication and live direct provider-to-provider contact has been very useful. And I think that the community oncologists have really appreciated that.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
I’m sure that they do. That is amazing. That’s awesome. What about you, Dr. Ermann? Do you have anything to add in terms of what you all are doing at your institution to communicate with other healthcare providers?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
I just have to say Dr. Chang and I were on the same page. I completely agree with everything he said. I think that he is…it’s we’re super imposable at this point. I do the exact same things as he does, which is great, I think. I think that that’s fantastic. A couple other things I would just say as well is that I agree 100 percent. Communication is the biggest thing. Communication is not only one of the most important things, but it also can be a big barrier. So I think fostering communication between, a lot of what I do is deal with local oncologists as the academics. So I may only see patients a couple times a year, whereas the local oncologist may see them a couple times a month.
And so having an open line of communication, whether it be cell phone, like occasionally I’ll be texting local providers, calling them, having their phone number is very helpful, emailing back and forth. And then after I see patients, similar to Dr. Chang, I document well in my notes. And I also have my team send the note to them through fax or other means. So things like that, I think are very valuable and important and I think are game-changers when it comes to excellent patient care, because the communication barrier can sometimes be one of the biggest ones.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Absolutely. Thank you for that. Before we wrap up, we know that social media is often leveraged in healthcare among providers. And I think you mentioned, Dr. Chang, an app. So are there any other digital tools or are there ways that either of you leverage social media in order to manage side effects, either with education to providers or to patients? And, Dr. Ermann, I’ll start with you on this one.
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
Sure. So social media is a tricky one, because not everyone uses it. Also in CLL in particular, our median patient age is around 70 years of age, and not too many of my 70-year-old patients are on, but they can be. So I think as a provider, there are a couple of things. I’ll be honest, Twitter is actually, can be a great resource. If you follow certain providers in the field, you’ll get some updated information before anyone else, including especially during our annual ASH meeting, there’s an ASH app. And if you could attend the meeting, you’ll see that most updated data. And you can see that on Twitter and/or X as well. Other than that, we also have a Huntsman app similar to Emory. But I think that that’s about as far as social media goes for me. What about you, Dr. Chang?
Dr. Andres Chang:
I agree with Dr. Ermann that places like X and LinkedIn, if you follow the right people, you can get very useful information. And I think that that’s particularly true for people within the academic community and healthcare providers. But for patients per se, I think that this could be a little bit more tricky. And so I try to steer them away from that, in fact, and I try to kind of keep them within the main resources.
And if they have any questions or they have…or they’re confused about something, I always tell them, feel free to send me a message, and we’re happy to discuss whatever you read. And so I find that patients really appreciate the openness of discussing data because sometimes the data might be not very accurate. And by having that trust, they find it comfortable talking about things that might not be as conventional as we might think so.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful. Fully understood. There are certainly some risks associated with getting information from social media. So I appreciate you all providing that balance. Well, it’s time to wrap up our roundtable. And, as always, this has been an incredibly enlightening conversation. So as we close, I’d love to get closing thoughts from each of you. And I’ll start with you, Dr. Chang. What is the most important takeaway that you want to leave with those healthcare providers who are listening and watching this program?
Dr. Andres Chang:
Yeah, I think that the most important takeaways are actually two things, I think. One is really, really important to educate patients about their disease, about their treatment, about the potential side effects, and also to try to anticipate and mitigate those potential side effects so that patients know exactly what they’re expecting.
And then the second thing is really essential to have a great team around you because practicing medicine, particularly oncology, is not a solo practice. We really need a village to take care of our patients. And so having well-trained nurses, having excellent clinical pharmacists, all of them are essential members of the team that will help with patient care.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful, Dr. Chang. Thank you. And, Dr. Ermann, what are some closing thoughts you’d like to leave with our audience today?
Dr. Daniel Ermann:
I would say is that I would say don’t be afraid. In medicine, there’s often this thought that reducing treatment doses or things like that is a bad thing and you shouldn’t do it. I would say I would empower providers to not be afraid to dose-reduce, especially to mitigate very undesirable toxicities. So I’d say don’t be afraid to dose-reduce. There’s a lot of, at least in some of our medications, good efficacy data showing that dose reductions can have similar, if not the same, efficacy profile while mitigating toxicity. So I would say don’t be afraid to dose reduce, especially if the toxicities are not improving. Don’t be afraid to dose-hold.
And when it comes to empowering our patients more, I’m a big advocate on empowering patients. Particularly diseases like CLL, where two-thirds of patients at diagnosis don’t require treatment, and they’re told that they have cancer, and then all of a sudden they’re told that they don’t need treatment can be very scary. And I think that’s when patients feel like they have their disease understood and that they’re doing the best that they can for their own disease, it makes it better for everyone involved.
So I think empowering both providers and patients is kind of the optimal way to do things. And those are the best patients. When you deal with someone who knows their cancer, knows what’s going on, sometimes I get patients they know as much or more than me and I’m like, wow, this is incredible. Those are the best.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
That is such a perfect way to end this program. An empowered patient is the best patient. Thank you so much, Dr. Chang. Thank you so much, Dr. Ermann, for this amazing discussion about managing side effects and managing dose modifications and educating patients and educating providers with regard to CLL. Thank you again for tuning in to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients, Patient Empowerment Network Program. I’m Dr. Nicole Rochester. Have an amazing day.
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Managing CLL Side Effects | Innovative Strategies and Approaches
Managing CLL Side Effects | Innovative Strategies and Approaches from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What can chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) HCPs consider for innovative ways to manage CLL side effects? Experts Dr. Jennifer Brown from Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Dr. Callie Coombs from the University of California, Irvine discuss strategies for drug interactions, neutropenia, headaches, and other side effects.
Download Resource Guide | Descargar guía de recursos
Related Resources:
|
How Can CLL HCPs Gain More Understanding of Mutation Profiles? |
CLL Expert Updates on Diagnostic Tool and Technology Advances |
CLL Clinical Trials for Molecularly Defined Patient Subgroups |
Transcript:
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Along with therapies, of course, come potential side effects. Are there any strategies that you can share with our healthcare provider audience around innovative approaches or protocols that have been implemented to mitigate and manage the CLL side effects from the treatment?
Dr. Callie Coombs:
I think it comes down to your internal resources, but I would say taking care of CLL patients is clearly a team effort. And so it’s not just me, but also a team of additional practitioners that I work with. So I’d like to emphasize how important pharmacists are because I’ve definitely seen some side effects that come about because a patient is now on a medication that interacts with whatever their CLL therapy is, which drives up the levels of the drug and then brings out certain toxicities so they can help us identify these if, perhaps I missed it or didn’t ask the patient about a supplement, et cetera.
Next is nurse practitioners and oncology nurses. And so number one is it’s a team-based approach, and I think it’s certainly very important to have protocols internally. But also to just realize what the common toxicities are and how can we mitigate these.
One of the most common reasons that I’ve seen for patients stopping a drug prematurely actually is venetoclax (Venclexta). It very commonly causes neutropenia. And I’ve seen the drug given up on very early without any growth factor support, and so I think if you become educated and experienced with using drugs, you can realize there’s very clear strategies in improving patients with neutropenia, by supporting them with growth factor and getting them through whatever their defined plan course of venetoclax may be.
And then BTK inhibitors have a whole smattering of side effects as well where perhaps working with cardio oncologists can help in addition to other strategies depending on exactly what side effect the patient may encounter. So in summary, definitely a team-based effort and growing experience with the common side effects helps I think all comers with strategies to help prevent or mitigate such side effects.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you so much, Dr. Coombs. Dr. Brown, do you have some additional best practices you’d like to share with regard to the management of treatment side effects?
Dr. Jennifer Brown:
Well, I agree completely with Dr. Coombs. I would just add that I think it helps a lot when you warn the patients ahead of time about things that may happen but that often go away or that you can manage. So, for example, headaches often happen early on when you initiate acalabrutinib (Calquence) but they go away typically very quickly. And so if patients know that, then they’re much less worried, and then you can talk to them about the strategies, because caffeine or acetaminophen (Tylenol) will often help with that. If you warn them that they may have some joint aches or pains, that can also help, since those are often transient.
With venetoclax, warning them about some nausea or diarrhea, and then we often manage that by subsequently moving the drug to the evening after they’re done with their ramp up, or initiating an antiemetic, things like this. And then oftentimes many patients who have that in the beginning, it doesn’t persist throughout the whole time that they’re on the drug. Sometimes the diarrhea may, but many times it doesn’t. So getting the patients through that early phase with the close management, which again, it helps, have your team help with that, the nurse practitioners, et cetera, and then hopefully things settle out and everyone’s happy.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Wonderful. I just want to emphasize two things. One that each of you said. One is this idea of a team-based approach, which is important in the treatment of all diseases, but of course very important in the treatment of the cancer. And also this idea of educating our patients so that they know ahead of time what to expect and really involving them as part of the team. So I really appreciate those, both of those points.
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CLL Clinical Trials for Molecularly Defined Patient Subgroups
CLL Clinical Trials for Molecularly Defined Patient Subgroups from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What’s the latest in chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL) clinical trials for molecularly defined patient subgroups? Experts Dr. Jennifer Brown from Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Dr. Callie Coombs from the University of California, Irvine discuss research updates for CLL patient subgroups, resistance mutations, and drug intolerance.
Download Resource Guide | Descargar guía de recursos
Related Resources:
|
How Can CLL HCPs Gain More Understanding of Mutation Profiles? |
CLL Expert Updates on Diagnostic Tool and Technology Advances |
Managing CLL Side Effects | Innovative Strategies and Approaches |
Transcript:
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
So now we’re going to shift to talking about clinical trials and novel targets focused on molecularly defined patient subgroups. We know that by understanding the molecular profile of a patient’s CLL, that oncologists can choose the most effective therapies. So, Dr. Brown, I’m going to start with you for this one. Can you talk about any emerging CLL trials targeting specific molecular subgroups, and also how can CLL experts stay updated on these advancements in clinical trials?
Dr. Jennifer Brown:
So, as you heard from Dr. Coombs, there’s increasing interest in looking at high-risk patients in particular, and I think looking specifically at patients with p53 aberration in dedicated clinical trials, it’s become increasingly clear that the behavior of the disease when it’s higher risk based on p53 mutation, NOTCH mutation, IGHV status is quite different, particularly with time limited therapy compared to lower risk disease. And so having dedicated trials that evaluate outcomes specifically in certain of these subgroups is increasingly important. We do have more trials than we used to focusing specifically on p53 aberration.
My personal belief is that we would be well served to have trials separately in the IGHV groups that Dr. Coombs mentioned, although that has not gained as much traction. And then what we are seeing is now that there are resistance mutations, it actually has turned out that some of the drugs that we use in that setting, venetoclax (Venclexa) and pirtobrutinib (Jaypirca), seem to have pretty similar activity in patients with and without the mutations. But as drugs are being studied in this context, there’s been an increasing tendency to study them in specific subgroups.
So patients who have the mutation and had clinical progression on a covalent inhibitor, patients who don’t have the mutation and had clinical progression, patients who may have come off their covalent inhibitor for adverse events who may not actually be resistant, what is their response to the next line of therapy? And so all of that is just helping us understand in a more nuanced way what the best benefit for patients will be as we look at these different subgroups of patients.
Dr. Nicole Rochester:
Thank you, Dr. Brown. Appreciate that. Dr. Coombs, do you have anything to add?
Dr. Callie Coombs:
Yeah, so I echo all of Dr. Brown’s comments, and I think I’m the person that is bringing all the practical aspects of CLL care because it’s, she’s so thorough. I just always like to contribute a few little pearls. So, pirtobrutinib has been an exciting drug, to see it become available for our double refractory patients. So the current FDA indication is for patients failed by not only a covalent BTKi but also venetoclax. But it’s the first BTK inhibitor that we can effectively use in the setting of a prior BTK inhibitor.
And that’s because of this unique aspect where instead of forming a covalent bond at the C481 residue, it binds reversibly, and we can still see activity. But the practical aspect is that that’s not an effective strategy when you have a patient progressing on, say, ibrutinib (Imbruvica), you can’t switch them to acalabrutinib (Calquence) or zanubrutinib (Brukinsa) because of their shared mechanism of resistance. They’re all covalent inhibitors. They all share the same mechanism of resistance.
And so that’s one thing I’d like to bring up. However, there’s a very different and very common clinical situation that I encounter really a lot in my clinic, which is intolerance. And so that’s where it would be a very effective strategy to switch a patient from one covalent drug to another. And so literally in the past couple weeks of clinic, I’ve had patients with chronic long-standing toxicities to ibrutinib (Imbruvica) that perhaps went underrecognized where I say, “Hey, you’ve had…notice your blood pressure has gone up a lot.
Let’s switch you over to acalabrutinib,” or other patients, “Oh, you’ve had issues with atrial fibrillation, it…let’s try switching you to zanubrutinib.” Because the rates are a lot lower and a lot of patients can have improvement or just complete resolution of the prior side effect. And so I hope that that emphasizes this is something that we think about every day, and switching is appropriate in the setting of intolerance. It’s not appropriate when you’re staying in the covalent class to switch in the setting of progression. But pirtobrutinib being a non-covalent inhibitor is certainly very effective after a covalent. And I think once we see readout of some of the ongoing Phase III trials, we may be able to use it in that setting under an approved FDA label, though that is to be seen in the future.
