Tag Archive for: BRCA1

How Is Advanced Prostate Cancer Treatment Personalized?

How Is Advanced Prostate Cancer Treatment Personalized? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Tests results, including results of biomarker testing, may help to personalize advanced prostate cancer treatment. Expert Dr. Xin Gao shares an overview of the testing that patients should undergo and how the results are used in determining a treatment plan for optimal care.

Dr. Xin Gao is a Medical Oncologist at Massachusetts General Hospital. Learn more about this expert Dr. Gao.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

I’d like to talk about what goes into deciding on a treatment path. What testing is used to understand a patient’s individual disease?  

Dr. Gao:

There is a lot of testing that we do for – to try and characterize a patient’s individual disease and try to select an optimal management strategy for their specific cancer and their specific situation.  

We look at the biopsy, the pathology. The most common type of prostate cancer is called adenocarcinoma, but rarely we see certain other types under the microscope, things like neuroendocrine or small cell prostate cancers that tend to be treated in a different way. We look at things like the Gleason score.  

That tells us a bit more about sort of the aggressiveness of this cancer, as well as the PSA, you know, it’s a very good correlate for how the cancer is doing in general once somebody has been diagnosed with prostate cancer. For imaging tests, we commonly rely on imaging. We look at prostate MRIs to get an idea of the local extent of the prostate tumor. We get things like bone scans and CAT scans to look at the entire rest of the body to see if or where the cancer may have spread to.  

And there are newer imaging tests like the PSMA PET scan, which we commonly use now, which is a much more sensitive test for detecting prostate cancer in 2023 compared to traditional scans like CAT scans and bone scans. I also commonly make use of genetic testing and molecular information.  

So, for any patient with an advanced prostate cancer, I do recommend both what we call a germline test, which is testing for inherited cancer genes that a patient could have gotten from the parents and pass onto their kids, as well as somatic testing, which is testing the cancer itself to see what genetic mutations or alterations might’ve developed within their cancer. And that can actually factor into certain treatments that the patient may or may not be more likely to benefit from if they have these genetic mutations. 

Katherine:

Dr. Gao, a patient sent in this question prior to the program. What other genetic testing, beside BRCA markers, are important for deciding future targeted therapies and how are each of them used? 

Dr. Gao:

Yeah, that’s a great question. Targeted therapies have been used in a lot of different cancers and it’s only really within the past few years that we’re using them as a standard of care routinely in prostate cancers. So, BRCA2 and BRCA1 mutations are some of the more common mutations or genetic alterations that are targetable in prostate cancer. Recently, there have been multiple FDA approvals of different drugs that are called PARP inhibitor, which are able to target the cancer if they have BRCA1 or BRCA2 mutations.  

Beyond BRCA2 and BRCA1, there’s a panel of what’s called homologous recombination repair genes and that’s defined differently in varying extents, depending on the specific drug. That has been FDA approved, but in general, it’s about 12 to 14 genes total and they actually include the BRCA2 and BRCA1 genes.  

So, some of the ones that have been…it seems like the data shows maybe more activity or better efficacy with these PARP inhibitors include a gene called PALB2, P-A-L-B 2. It’s not a very common mutation that we see, but it is something that we should look for because even if it’s not common overall for the patient who has it, it could be a very helpful and useful gene to know that that they have and it certainly would warrant treatment with a PARP inhibitor. 

The other sort of dozen  or so…10-12 genes in this homologous recombination repair pathway, the data, I would say, is still early and it is still somewhat limited in terms of how much people with those gene mutations truly benefit from these PARP inhibitors, but I do think it’s important to look for them, to know that if they do have one of these genetic mutations that it does make a PARP inhibitor an option for them. And then, beyond these HRR genes, I always look for something called a microsatellite instability or mismatched repair deficiency. These are sort of genetic features or really a panel of about four genes involved in a cellular process called – a DNA repair process called mismatch repair.  

For those patients that have either mismatched repair deficiency or microsatellite instability high cancers, I do recommend that they consider an immunotherapy medication called pembrolizumab which is FDA-approved regardless of cancer type for any MSI high or mismatched repair cancer and they’ve shown pretty solid activity for those kinds of cancers. 

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What Does Breast Cancer Hormone Receptor Status Mean?

What Does Breast Cancer Hormone Receptor Status Mean? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

There are many subclassifications of breast cancer—including a patient’s hormone receptor status. Expert Dr. Jame Abraham defines hormone receptor status and explains the potential impact on breast cancer treatment outcomes.

Dr. Jame Abraham is the chairman of the Department of Hematology & Medical Oncology at Cleveland Clinic and professor of medicine at Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Abraham.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Abraham, can you please explain hormone receptor status?   

Dr. Abraham:

Yeah. So, as you know, really well, breast cancer is not one disease. It can be five, or six, or seven different diseases. There are so many subclassifications for breast cancer. So, most common type of breast cancer, especially if I can see, in postmenopausal patients, almost 70 percent of breast cancers are postmenopausal. Sorry, you can edit that out. So, in postmenopausal patients, 70 percent of breast cancers are hormone-positive, or estrogen receptor-positive – 70 percent is estrogen receptor-positive. 

So, what that means is, when, after the biopsy, the tumor is sent for a test. 

In that test, the pathologist will say – they’ll stain the tumor, and then, see if the tumor has a receptor, which is estrogen receptor, and progesterone receptor. So, as I said, 70 percent, it’s actually hormone-positive. When the tumor is estrogen receptor-positive, overall, prognosis is better. So, our prognosis is better. Second, we have better treatments, which can target that estrogen receptor-positive tumor. So, it’s a good thing when patients have hormone receptor-positive disease. Prognosis is better, we have better treatments. 

How Do Genomic Testing Results Impact Breast Cancer Treatment Options?

How Do Genomic Testing Results Impact Breast Cancer Treatment Options? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Understanding a breast cancer patient’s individual disease is vital to personalizing their care. Dr. Jame Abraham explains how genomic testing results could impact a patient’s treatment path.

Dr. Jame Abraham is the chairman of the Department of Hematology & Medical Oncology at Cleveland Clinic and professor of medicine at Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Abraham.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Abraham, how do genomic test results impact treatment options?  

Dr. Abraham:

So, let’s just kind of think about the germline mutation. Let’s just say, we do a genetic testing for a patient with a stage two breast cancer. And let’s just say, if the patient has BRCA1 mutation, basically, we are saying, if somebody has a BRCA1 mutation, there’s about a 20 to 40 percent chance of developing contralateral breast cancer, breast cancer on the other side, and then, about 20 to 40 percent chance of developing ovarian cancer. 

So, if I’m seeing somebody who is in their 40s or 50s, those who completed their family, completed the family, then, with the mutation, we will talk to them about potential risk reduction surgeries for the other breast. 

And then, in addition, we’ll talk about removing the ovaries for prevention of ovarian cancer. 

So, that’s one major decision point. And then, let’s just say, with the BRCA mutation, there are new drugs, FDA-approved, what we call as, PARP inhibitors, or olaparib (Lynparza). After completing their chemotherapy and other treatments, we can add a PARP inhibitor or olaparib to their adjuvant treatment. That means, after surgery and chemo, we can add this medicine, for their treatment, for a year. 

So, this has tremendous implications for their treatment. And then, let’s just say, if she has other family members, there’s about 50 percent chance that they may have the same. 

So, you can probably talk to them about doing the testing for them, and that may influence their screening methods, to see if she has kids, and what 50 percent chance that they can inherit this gene. Again, that can influence how we screen and manage them.  

So, let’s just say, if I’m seeing somebody who stage I breast cancer, you’re positive, and then, we do a genomic testing. It’s not exactly somatic, but it’s, still, it’s a genomic testing. 

So, we do a genomic testing, such as Oncotype, or MammaPrint – so, again, that’s an early-stage breast cancer – that specifically looked at certain things within the tumor, which are markers for proliferation. So, those tests will help us, again, in a specific subset of patients, ER-positive, HER2-negative, early-stage patients, tests, such as Oncotype and MammaPrint, will help us to identify who will need chemo, or whom we can spare more aggressive treatments like chemo. 

And then, in metastatic setting, when we do this testing, we can see certain mutations within the tumor that will allow us to recommend treatments based upon that. 

What Is a Breast Cancer Genetic Mutation?

What Is a Breast Cancer Genetic Mutation? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Breast cancer patients may learn that they have a “genetic mutation”—so what does that mean exactly? Dr. Jame Abraham defines the term and explains what mutation status could reveal about a patient’s individual disease.

Dr. Jame Abraham is the chairman of the Department of Hematology & Medical Oncology at Cleveland Clinic and professor of medicine at Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Abraham.

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Transcript:

Dr. Abraham:

So, genetic mutation is, the change is happening within the tumor, which is making it more aggressive, or less aggressive. So, what’s driving this tumor? Let us think, it’s like a machine, and the machine has, probably, different parts, and we know, every part plays a role in driving that engine, but some part may be playing a major role in driving that engine, and the question is, can we knock that off with certain medicine? 

So, select genetic testing. If the tumor has, what we call, it’s an ESR1 mutation, then we can use some medicine, which can block that ESR1. That’s a new drug, which just got approved recently, to see if they have some kind of an immune marker, what we call as, a PD-L1 marker. Then, it can be used like an immunotherapy, to stop that cell growth. So, let’s just say, if I have somebody with BRCA1 somatic mutation, in some patients, even certain medicines, like PARP inhibitors, may be helpful. So, identifying that, what’s turning them on, and trying to identify a medicine which can turn that off. 

What’s the Difference Between Germline and Somatic Breast Cancer Mutations?

What’s the Difference Between Germline and Somatic Breast Cancer Mutations? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Breast cancer expert Dr. Jame Abraham reviews the key differences between germline and somatic genomic testing and explains the role they play in treatment, care, and predicting a recurrence.

Dr. Jame Abraham is the chairman of the Department of Hematology & Medical Oncology at Cleveland Clinic and professor of medicine at Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Abraham.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Abraham, what’s the difference between germline and somatic genetic mutations?   

Dr. Abraham:

Sure. So, germline, as I said, to see if we carry that gene, and it means, I’m born with that. I’m inherited. I carry that gene. That’s in my DNA. Somatic is, the change is happening within the tumor, within the tumor. 

So, it’s kind of – sometimes, it can be acquired. So, let’s just say, if I’m seeing a patient with breast cancer, and then, it can be early stage. So, I’ll kind of say that – let’s just say, if I’m seeing somebody with a stage II breast cancer, we can do a genomic testing of the tumor to identify the risk of recurrence for the next nine years or so. We do that, mainly in what we call as ER-positive, HER2-negative tumors. So, hormone-positive, HER2-negative tumors. 

In early-stage setting, we do genomic testing to classify the risk of recurrence. And I found the high risk, or low risk, that’s one. And second, this genomic testing will tell us the benefit from chemotherapy. 

So, share prognosis, and treatment decision.  

So, the other genomic testing we commonly do is, let’s just say, she has seen somebody who is metastatic, means the cancer already spread to other part of the body. Again, we can do the genomic testing from the tumor, and then, that’ll kind of give us what, the changes happening within the tumor. That’ll help us to identify potential, and what particular targets within the tumor, so that we can treat them with new treatments, or screen them for clinical trials. 

And then, some of the new treatments have specific mutations that’ll identify if patients benefit from certain medications. So, the genomic testing will help us to select patients for these new treatments, or even clinical trials. 

What Is Breast Cancer Genomic Testing?

What Is Breast Cancer Genomic Testing? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What do results of breast cancer genomic testing reveal? Expert Dr. Jame Abraham explains this type of testing and common breast cancer genetic mutations and discusses how tests are typically administered.

Dr. Jame Abraham is the chairman of the Department of Hematology & Medical Oncology at Cleveland Clinic and professor of medicine at Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Abraham.

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What is the Role of Genetic Testing in Breast Cancer


Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Abraham, for breast cancer patients who don’t understand the term, what is genomic testing?   

Dr. Abraham:

So, genomic testing, there are two types of genomic testing, what we call as, germline testing. And then, there’s another one, what we call as, somatic testing. So, germline testing means, the question is, if I carry a gene which can make me high risk for breast cancer. So, one of the most common questions I get from our patients when I see them is, “Oh, do I carry a gene? Why did I get this breast cancer?” And then, the other question is, “What’s the risk for my kids, my daughter?” 

So, I’ve seen, about 5 to 10 percent of breast cancers are due to an abnormal gene. To find that, we do, what we call as, the germline testing. That’s the first – when we say genomic testing, that’s the most commonly understood nomenclature. 

So, do I carry this gene? It’s a blood test, or we can take a mouth swab. That will give us an answer, if that person carries a gene. 

Usually, we test several genes, and I’m sure, most of the people have BRCA1, BRCA2, PALB2, CDH1. Those are some of the genes we test, and BRCA1 and BRCA2 are the most common, and 80 percent of heredity, or those who are transmitted to the next generation, is attributed to BRCA1 and BRCA2.  

Katherine:

How is this testing administered?  

Dr. Abraham:

So, it’s a blood test. 

Most of the time, we can draw – usually, the way we do is, I like to say, if I’m seeing a patient who has – and this is a patient who’s 45 years old and has a strong family history, or in patients under the age of 50, with a triple-negative breast cancer, or any person under the age of 50, can be considered for genetic counseling. And then, based upon the conversation with a genetic counselor, we will recommend the genetic testing. Usually, it’s a blood draw. 

What Are Common Barriers to Clinical Trials Access?

What Are Common Barriers to Clinical Trial Access? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Clinical trials are key to the approval of new breast cancer treatments. But what factors could prevent some patients from participating? Expert Dr. Jame Abraham reviews common barriers and emphasizes the commitment of the oncology community to improving trial access.

Dr. Jame Abraham is the chairman of the Department of Hematology & Medical Oncology at Cleveland Clinic and professor of medicine at Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Abraham.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Abraham, what are barriers to accessing clinical trials?  

Dr. Abraham:

That’s a really good question. I think we need to continue to work on breaking down the barriers. And the most common barrier is, wherever she, or he, are going for the treatment, they don’t have access to a client. There’s no trial available. The second, let’s just say, if I can say, the lack of awareness from the provider, or the patient’s side, about the importance of trial. And then, third, some trials can be complicated. So, it requires multiple appointments, or multiple trips to the doctor’s office, or the hospital, or the cancer center. So, that may not be feasible for everybody. Somebody has limited access, limited support, it can be tough. 

And then, let’s just say, that people have comorbid conditions, if I can say. Other conditions, heart disease, or other things, or they’re not able to be more active, and some of those things, can make that person ineligible for a trial. 

So, there are a number of things, potentially, can be barriers, but I think, as an oncology community, as cancer centers, we need to continue to work on optimizing, or breaking down, these barriers.  

As a nation, we have a huge – we have a lot of work in addressing the disparities in cancer care.

As you know, where you’re born, and it can be innercity, Cleveland, innercity, Detroit, or it can be in the Appalachia, where you’re born, and what’s your access to healthcare, that plays a major role. 

And, of course, your race, and your education, I know that plays a major role in access to healthcare, and then, able to continue with treatment, and that plays a similar role in clinical trials, too. So, the number of patients entering clinical trials from different race, especially African American patients, are less, compared to the other patient population. So, there is a lot of work, need to be done, in addressing the disparities in cancer care, in general, and especially clinical trials. 

Katherine:

And I imagine that’s a focus for many of the people working on trials?  

Dr. Abraham:

It’s a focus for National Cancer Institute, it’s a focus for all the cancer centers, absolutely. 

Breast Cancer Clinical Trials | What Are the Phases?

Breast Cancer Clinical Trials | What Are the Phases? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What do breast cancer patients need to know about the phases of a clinical trial? Expert Dr. Jame Abraham explains the trial process and reviews what happens during each phase.

Dr. Jame Abraham is the chairman of the Department of Hematology & Medical Oncology at Cleveland Clinic and professor of medicine at Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Abraham.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Abraham, many people are confused about how breast cancer clinical trials are conducted. What are the phases of a clinical trial? 

Dr. Abraham:

So, that’s a really good question. It’s a really important question. And I’m kind of saying, there’s so many new things, and I’m talking about genomic testing, and I’m talking about all these new treatments. As I mentioned, I’ve been doing breast cancer for 20 years. So, every year, we are making huge progress in the treatment of breast cancer. Even then, more than 40,000 women will lose their life because of breast cancer. So, we have a long way to go. As you know, the only way we can make things better for tomorrow is by doing clinical trials. And there are so many different types of clinical trials. I’ll talk about that in a second. 

Every new treatment we have today is coming out through a clinical trial, and someone, somewhere, said yes to a new treatment, or will be part of a trial. And that’s the reason we have a new drug today, and that’s making things better for tomorrow. 

So, a clinical trial is extremely important, and I’ll say, a clinical trial is the gold standard of cancer treatment. And unfortunately, only less than seven percent of adults in the U.S. are enrolled in a clinical trial. Well, of course, that’s many reasons for that, but let me just make it clear. I know people sometimes worry, “Oh, by being part of a clinical trial, I’m a guinea pig.” No. No, no. Clinical trials are run with high ethical standards. So many committees review that, make sure it’s scientifically sound, it’s safe, and it protects the patient. 

So, there’s so many layers of protection for the patients before anyone enters in a clinical trial. 

So, there are treatment trials and non-treatment trials, and I’ll focus on – let me focus on treatment trials, not which other ones are making all these changes in the clinic. So, I’ve been doing trials for the last 20 years or so, or being part of a number of regional, and national, or global clients. 

So, there are three major types of trials. One, because Phase I, Phase I. That’s the earliest form of clinical trial, and we have some, what they call as, preclinical data. A drug is found to be promising, but we don’t have too much, if I can say, data, in patients, or humans. 

So, Phase I is the first human trial, which is looking for the right dose of the drug, what side effects we can expect, and we kind of look at how the drug is metabolized in the body. So, that’s the Phase I trial. 

The second one is Phase II, Phase II trial. Phase II trials are looking for efficacy, and how active this drug is in breast cancer. And the third type of trial is Phase III, Phase III. Phase III is what we call as, randomized trials. Means there’s a standard treatment, and now, we have this new drug. The question is, is the new drug better than the standard treatment? So, Phase III, it’s randomized. It’s divided into two groups. One group will get the standard treatment, and the second group will get this new treatment. 

And then, we’ll come back and compare these two, and see which is better. That’s Phase III. 

So, there is Phase IV, that’s, they call as, a post-marketing study, and once the – based upon the phase, early phase trials, the FDA can approve, or not approve, a drug. And let’s just say, if it’s approved, it’s in the market. Then, the patients can potentially go for a, what we call as, phase – I mean, potentially, we can do a Phase IV study. That’s post-marketing study. 

Why Should Breast Cancer Patients Engage in Care Decisions?

Why Should Breast Cancer Patients Engage in Care Decisions? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What role should breast cancer patients play in their care and treatment decisions? Expert Dr. Jame Abraham explains the concept of shared decision-making and stresses the importance of patient/healthcare team communication.

Dr. Jame Abraham is the chairman of the Department of Hematology & Medical Oncology at Cleveland Clinic and professor of medicine at Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Abraham.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Dr. Abraham, what is shared decision-making?  

Dr. Abraham:

Yeah. So, that’s a really good question. When, as you know, when somebody’s ill, doesn’t matter what the condition is, patients have the biggest stake in that. It’s my health, or it’s the patient’s health. So, it’s really important for us to, patient to be aware, and empowered, in the decision-making.  

So, it’s an informed process, an empowered process, for the patient to be part of the decision-making, understanding the risks and benefit of the treatment steps. And when I said treatment, it can start from screening, the procedures, to treatment, any of the things that we do, that should be an informed, shared decision-making.  

Katherine:

Dr. Abraham, why is it so important for patients speak up about any treatment side effects or symptoms they may be experiencing?   

Dr. Abraham:

So, as I said, they have the biggest stake in this thing, and it’s really important for them to speak up, ask questions, to the doctors. And that’s the only way we can make sure that the patient is getting the right treatment, right dose, if you need to modify, if you need to look for something else. That’s the only way, when we have that, if I can say, that trusting relationship, with proper communication, we can make sure that they – ensure they continue to get the right treatment. 

How Do Biomarker Test Results Impact Prostate Cancer Treatment Options?

How Do Biomarker Test Results Impact Prostate Cancer Treatment Options? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What can biomarker test results indicate about prostate cancer treatment options? Dr. David Wise discusses genetic mutations, treatment classes, and testing methods that are commonly examined to help determine optimal prostate cancer approaches.

Dr. David Wise is Director of Genitourinary Medical Oncology at the Laura and Isaac Perlmutter Cancer Center at NYU Langone Health. Learn more about Dr. Wise.

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Transcript:

Dr. David Wise:

So, that’s a great question. So, there are multiple gene test results that can directly influence a choice of treatment. I think that it’s important to highlight two main categories, both within the genomic testing setting. Both of these test results have their major impact in patients with metastatic prostate cancer, whether the cancer has been treated already and is resistant to current treatments, or even some situations where the cancer has not even been treated.  

For metastatic prostate cancer, I think it’s important to assess whether the cancer has evidence of a BRCA1 or 2 mutation, or whether the cancer has evidence of a genetic feature called microsatellite instability, or MSI high. Cancers that have evidence of BRCA1 or 2 have clear benefit. Patients have clear benefit from treatment that targets those genes. And that’s a class of oral medications called PARP inhibitors, several of which are already FDA-approved for hormone-resistant metastatic prostate cancer with evidence of BRCA1 or 2 mutation.  

There are even newer clinical trials which are testing the use of those medicines at the outset of men who are initially diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer, even naïve to treatment and testing whether we should be adding on PARP inhibitors for men with that genetic feature.  

Microsatellite instability, as well, leads to a clear FDA indication for immunotherapy with what we call checkpoint inhibitors that target and reinvigorate the body’s immune system. We know that prostate cancers with that particular genetic feature, which unfortunately is still an uncommon type of prostate cancer – but when it happens, it’s important to know about it because those immunotherapies can have truly life-changing, truly very long lasting, in the order of years, benefit to keeping that cancer to an undetectable level. Now, I would say, those are the key genomic features that directly translate to changes in treatment.  

There are other biomarkers, one we haven’t talked about which is very impactful, which is levels of PSMA expression on a PET scan. So, we talked about that in the setting of making a diagnosis, but it also is important for dictating best treatment. So, we now know, based on the results of a large Phase III trial that patients with prostate cancers that have PSMA uptake on PET imaging, which is an imaging biomarker, not a genetic biomarker, but an imaging biomarker.  

Those patients respond quite well to lutetium PSMA, which is a radioligand therapy that targets PSMA-producing prostate cancers. And so, those are examples of, I think, very impactful biomarkers that patients need to know about, so that they can ask their physicians to get tested to see if they’re candidates for those potential treatments.  

So, the genetic tests can be done either on biopsy material or on blood. And the latter has really been a major advance because we’ve been able to identify patients who are eligible without exposing them to an additional fresh biopsy. Sometimes, we need to because sometimes the blood does not have sufficient material to be able to establish the diagnosis. But still, it is often worth trying because, of course, we would try to do anything to avoid undergoing a risky procedure, and this is an example of that. In order to assess hereditary genetic risk, that can be done from a saliva sample. So, often, a cheek swab is enough, but testing for that is often pretty standard as well. So, that’s another option.  

So, in order to assess PSMA expression, which lends itself directly to the use of lutetium PSMA, that’s the straightforward PET scan. It’s now something that is readily available at the vast majority of academic centers and in the community as well. 

How Do Biomarker Test Results Impact a Prostate Cancer Patient’s Prognosis?

How Do Biomarker Test Results Impact a Prostate Cancer Patient’s Prognosis? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can a prostate cancer patient’s prognosis be impacted by biomarker test results? Dr. David Wise shares insight about biomarkers that are important in determining higher risk prostate cancer.

Dr. David Wise is Director of Genitourinary Medical Oncology at the Laura and Isaac Perlmutter Cancer Center at NYU Langone Health. Learn more about Dr. Wise.

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Transcript:

Dr. David Wise:

Great question. So, every biomarker needs to be considered independently.   

And whether it adds additional prognostic information to the other variables that we’ve already collected. And so, there are a few different biomarkers that we can discuss. I think that perhaps the most well-known, and in some sense very important one, is the one I mentioned before, which is the abnormal BRCA2 gene test results.  

So, patients who have that hereditary genetic mutation with BRCA2, we do have evidence that those cancers at diagnosis tend to have a higher Gleason score. They tend to be higher risk. Those cancers are still curable. Those cancers are still very treatable, but they tend to be less common in that low-risk category. So, we tend to be, at times, a bit more reluctant to manage patients with BRCA2 with surveillance alone, because their cancers typically need more intensive treatment.  

Prostate Cancer: What’s the Difference Between Hereditary and Biomarker Testing?

Prostate Cancer: What’s the Difference Between Hereditary and Biomarker Testing? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What’s the difference between hereditary testing and biomarker testing? Dr. David Wise explains how biomarker testing and hereditary testing differ – and discusses the impact and potential risks of some mutations.

Dr. David Wise is Director of Genitourinary Medical Oncology at the Laura and Isaac Perlmutter Cancer Center at NYU Langone Health. Learn more about Dr. Wise.

See More From INSIST! Prostate Cancer

Related Resources

What Is a Prostate Cancer Biomarker

What Is a Prostate Cancer Biomarker?

The Link Between Prostate Cancer and Genetic Mutations

The Link Between Prostate Cancer and Inherited Mutations

How Does Genetic Testing Impact Prostate Cancer Care

How Does Genetic Testing Impact Prostate Cancer Care?


Transcript:

Dr. David Wise:

That’s a great question. So, hereditary genetic testing is a test that looks specifically to establish whether a person is born with a gene that predisposed them to develop that cancer, and therefore has two clear implications.  

If the test result is abnormal, then the patient was born with that gene. Therefore, other family members, first-degree relatives, may also have that gene, and that may predispose those other family members to the same cancer or to other cancers. For example, BRCA2 can predispose to the prostate cancer that the patient that we’re discussing has, but it can also predispose to breast or ovarian cancer or pancreas cancer. And if the patient has an abnormal BRCA2 gene, then their first-degree relatives have a 50 percent chance of having that gene and being predisposed to cancer, not necessarily having a guaranteed development of that cancer, but having a higher risk of developing that cancer.  

So, it has implications for family member testing or what we call cascade testing, but it also has potential implications depending on the gene. And we’re looking for, even if it’s a hereditary gene, it can still have implications for how to best treat or monitor that patient’s cancer. And so, that’s the hereditary genetic testing. Now, biomarker testing is a broader umbrella term, and it just refers to any information or test result that we collect that gives us information about how that patient is going to respond to treatment, which means a predictive result. So, it tells us potentially which treatment might work better or worse or what we call a general prognostic information.  

So, information about that patient’s…the important things to what that person is worried about: How long they’re going to live, how well they’re going to respond to treatment, how aggressive their cancer is going to be. So, that’s biomarker testing. Now, what I think is particularly confusing – and maybe I’ll shed light on this – is: Well, what’s the difference between somatic genetic testing and hereditary genetic testing?  

So, somatic genetic testing is actually testing that is focused purely on what genes were mutated in the prostate that promoted the development of that cancer. Abnormal test results on that test are not directly related to hereditary risk. Just because a patient’s cancer has mutated gene X does not mean that their family member has a predisposition to develop to having that gene. They’re completely unrelated. So, really, patients should have both types of genetic testing.  

But there are specific criteria for which patient qualifies for which type of test, and that’s a detailed conversation that needs to happen between the physician and the patient. 

Thriving With Breast Cancer | Tools for Navigating Care and Treatment

Thriving With Breast Cancer | Tools for Navigating Care and Treatment from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can patients live well with breast cancer? Dr. Bhuvaneswari Ramaswamy reviews current and emerging breast cancer treatments, discusses the importance of emotional support, and shares advice and resources for engaging in care decisions.

Dr. Bhuvaneswari Ramaswamy is the Section Chief of Breast Medical Oncology and the Director of the Medical Oncology Fellowship Program in Breast Cancer at The Ohio State College of Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Ramaswamy.

See More from Thrive Breast Cancer

Download Resource Guide

Related Resources:

What Role Do Breast Cancer Patients Play in Care and Treatment Decisions?

What Is Precision Oncology and What Does It Mean for Breast Cancer Patients

Why Should Breast Cancer Patients Feel Empowered to Speak Up About Their Care?


Transcript:

Katherine:

Hello and welcome. I’m Katherine Banwell, your host for today’s program. Today’s webinar is part of our Thrive Series, and we’re going to discuss the tools to help you navigate breast cancer care. Before we meet our guest, let’s review a few important details. The reminder email you received about this program contains a link to a program resource guide. If you haven’t already, click that link to access information to follow along during the webinar. At the end of this program, you’ll receive a link to a survey.  

Please take a moment to provide feedback about your experience today in order to help us plan future webinars. And finally, before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Well, joining me today is Dr. Ramaswamy. Welcome. It’s so good to have you here. Would you mind introducing yourself?  

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Oh, no, of course not. Thank you so much, Katherine. And well, I’m Dr. Ramaswamy. I’m a professor at the Ohio State University. I’ve been here for about 20 years as faculty. My focus of interest, what I see in the clinic is primarily breast cancer patients. And my research is also focused on breast cancer itself, both treatment as well as prevention. I do both. I have a lab, and so I work on that to understand some of the mechanisms and biology of drug resistance as well as prevention.  

Why does like lack of breastfeeding or obesity, why does that increase the risk of breast cancer? I study that in the clinic. I am primarily interested in clinical research, so putting patients on clinical trials, both therapeutic and non-therapeutic, collecting tissues, collecting data to understand, again, biology that’s happening in the patients and what works and improving care and identifying new novel therapies. That’s what I do. 

Katherine:

Excellent. 

Well, thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to join us today. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Anytime. 

Katherine:

I’d like to start – we start all of our Thrive Series with the same question. In your experience, what does it mean to thrive with breast cancer? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

That’s a great question. I think it’s an important one because we always talk about surviving breast cancer, and that’s obviously the most important thing. We all want to survive, but we all also want more than that. We don’t want to just live, we want quality of life. 

And I think one thing that to remember is as soon as the breast cancer diagnosis is done, it’s in part – it’s difficult to say that you can thrive immediately. So, your focus is on really getting through the treatments and making sure it’s all done. So, at that time, managing the toxicities and getting through the stresses of going through the treatments and surgery, radiation, et cetera takes over everything else. But as you finish that off you, you want to focus on what are the ways you can try to get back to the life that you had prior to breast cancer.  

Now it’s difficult and it’s almost impossible to forget the big C word in your life. So, that’s going to hang and that’s going to kind of make anything you look at your perspective as slightly different. I mean, every pain could be worrisome because could it be a reference? Has the cancer spread? Or every bad news about another person could you, could transport that about yourself and then kind of worry about what could happen to you. 

Every visit to the doctor, and particularly your oncologist, is going to bring back memories. So, there are certain things that you can’t take away, but time can heal those. But what we talk about thriving is that you looking at factors that is going to make you and your body healthy. That is going to be exercise, being engaged in whether your work or your family work and being joyful and seek what brings you joy, whether it’s friends, your work or your family.  

And make sure you make time for that. And also eating right and diet is an important aspect of that. Not doing inflammatory diets such as highly fatty diets or meat-containing diet, but really kind of looking at your diet and your weight and your exercise. And trying to also discuss with your team about what are the symptoms you are having and how we can support you to mitigate those symptoms. And really having conversations and somebody you can confide with to both manage your physical aspects as well as the emotional aspects.  

And really kind of thriving and becoming an advocate for yourself as well as for others who have breast cancer is what I would say is truly thriving with breast – with the diagnosis of breast cancer.   

Katherine: 

Yeah. And we are going to go into a more in-depth discussion later as the interview goes on, but thank you so much for your perspective. Let’s start with an essential piece that helps people thrive, understanding their breast cancer. First, what are the types of breast cancer? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yeah, and I think that’s extremely critical. Empowering you, the patient, with the knowledge of the type of breast cancers and what’s the outcomes and why they’re getting some treatments, and what to look for is probably one of the most important things to do. And part of it lies primarily with the providers to ensure that education empowerment. But part of it also lies on the part of the patient to make sure they ask the right questions and learn about their breast cancer.  

So, the type of breast cancers you have that are hormone receptor-sensitive breast cancer, that means your tumor would be positive for estrogen and or progesterone receptors. And it depends on estrogen and or progesterone for its growth and wellbeing. And then there is a HER2-positive breast cancer, which means the HER2 protein is high in your tumors and that drives the cancer cells.  

And so, it’s important to understand that subtype and why we have certain treatments to improve the outcomes. And then the last one is when all those three are not there, ER, PR, and HER2. So, hence the word triple-negative breast cancers. These are the large subtypes of breast cancers that are based on these biomarkers, which are proteins that drive the growth of breast, the cancer cells. There is of course different types of breast cancer based on histology that is invasive ductal cancer, that’s very most common. The less, slightly less common is the invasive lobular cancer, about 10 to 15 percent.  

But then there are also very less than 3 percent called metaplastic breast cancers and other types of breast cancers that could also be histological different subtypes.  

And it’s important for you to know what type of subtype of histological or how does it look under the microscope is important for you to know as well. So, these I would say are the most important understanding of our breast cancer subtypes, at least this much to definitely educate the patient and patient having the understanding of their cancer. 

Katherine: 

What biomarker testing is standard following a breast cancer diagnosis? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, the three biomarkers that we definitely test for at this point are the estrogen receptor for strong receptors and the HER2. And, of course, there’s also the grade that your pathologist would grade your tumor. And grade is different from stage. And that is looking at how quickly your cells are growing. And these are the basic understanding that you should have about your cancer at this point. 

Katherine: 

Dr. Ramasamy, how is breast cancer staged? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

The breast cancer is usually staged by using couple of things. One is clinical staging. So, when you come in with the initial you feel a lump and you get a mammogram. So, we will stage you by understanding the size of your tumor in your breast as well as whether we are able to palpate your lymph nodes. Second, we, you know, the imaging. What we feel as a size is usually a little bit overestimated when we look at the mammograms or the MRIs that you have. And then we’ll see whether in the – in those imagings whether your lymph nodes are looking abnormal. So, we use these initially to do clinical staging. But then when we go to surgery, that’s when we do the correct pathological staging because now, we know exactly your tumor size. Then they do what’s called a sentinel lymph node biopsy.  

We don’t need to take all the lymph nodes to stage your nodal status anymore. We just use this methodology in the surgery, in this – during surgery to just pick out those nodes that is draining your tumor back. And whether they’re positive or not. In general, as long as you don’t have a very locally advanced cancer, we don’t need to do staging scans to stage you for breast cancer. But in case you are unlucky enough to have cancer spread in those, and we do scans and you have cancer either in your bone or liver or lung, then that is a higher staging, and that’s what’s called the stage IV cancer. 

Katherine: 

Okay. Another key component of thriving is finding a treatment that is right for your disease. What are the considerations that guide a treatment decision? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yeah, great question. So, what we just talked about, the two things that are very important for us to make a decision, and that’s where we have come far in the last 20, 25 years, is because we are not just taking the staging.  

That is anatomical staging, meaning what’s the size of your tumor and the lymph node involvement. We use those. That is important for us because that obviously changes the risk. The higher the stage, the higher risk of recurrence. The higher the risk, we have to do more treatment to get a benefit, right? So, that’s one side. But what we have come to understand is biomarkers are very important. That is biology of your tumor.  

So, the grade, how quickly it’s proliferating although it’s not a biomarker, but it tells us a lot. And then the three important biomarkers we talked about ER, PR, and HER2. Those all are important for us to make a decision. In addition to that, we do something called a genomic testing called Oncotype DX assay. There is also another test called MammaPrint. These are genomic testing.  

That is, we look at some of the genes that are up or downregulated in your tumor to decide whether you are going to benefit for something called chemotherapy or maybe just targeted therapies enough. So, these are some of the factors that we use to make a decision.  

Now, do we use age and your performance status? Meaning how well you are? Do you have comorbidities? Do you have bad diabetes? Do you have heart disease? Yes, they all go into that whole treatment decision, but the primary is made out of biomarkers and genomic testing and anatomic, and the rest are additional factors that go into our decision-making.  

Katherine: 

Yeah. What about metastatic disease? Are the considerations different when it comes to treatment? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

It is a little bit different because the first thing that we have to understand is when we are seeing them in stage I, stage II, stage III, which is stage IV is metastatic, stage II – we – our goal is a curator. We are trying to really throw the kitchen sink, although that’s really not what we do. We are trying to still be tailored therapy, but we are trying to do everything we can to prevent a recurrence.  

But now when you have a stage IV disease that is the cancer has spread, that is the horses have left the barn in the breast and has gone and settled in distant organs and gone, our goal is to try to contain the disease. So, prevent further progression, prolong the life and survival, and also improve quality of life. So, there are those consideration.  

The biomarkers still go into consideration. We ensure we biopsy the metastatic site and look for those biomarkers. We do the genomic testing, gene sequencing of this. That will also help with our decision-making. We, of course, look for clinical trials because new novel therapies are always more important, but these are the other factors. And, of course, performance status that is how well you are, how well your organs are functioning, and what’s your age, and how that affects your morbidity. All of those are also important. 

Katherine:

What questions should patients ask about their treatment options?  

Dr. Ramaswamy:

I think the most important thing is to understand what you have first. So, kind of the doctor will talk to you about what type, histological type of breast cancer you have. They’ll also talk to you about what biomarkers you have. And they will also talk to you about the treatment options, which could be chemotherapy versus target therapies, and what are the outcomes from those using clinical trials. So, I think the questions that you have to ask them is that, what do you feel like you would is right for your body, right? That’s important. That what you have some of the preconceived notions that we all carry. That bias and preconceived notions is just a normal natural way of learning. And so ask about those fears, ask about those hopes that you have. And if your hope is, “Hey, can I do as well without chemotherapy?” Ask that question. So, and it’s important to understand the side effects and the outcomes of each therapy.   

It may also be important for you if you do – you really don’t want to have treatments to understand if you don’t get treatment, what are your outcome changes? So, those are, I think, the important thing. And then what that does mean to you? What do you want out of your life? Longevity, quality of life? How long will your quality of life be affected? And how does that impact your understanding of what you want out of your life? I think those are important for you to ask and make sure you have a friend or a relative with you so that not everything is going to go in at the first or the second visit, so you have someone else who’s taking notes. 

Katherine: 

Yeah, good idea. Are there emerging therapies that are showing promise? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Oh, my God. There’s just tremendous emerging therapies that are showing extraordinary progress. And I talk about this to my patients all the time. I mean, I tell them like two years ago say in a patient with – patient with metastatic disease, I’ll say, last year this drug wasn’t approved.  

This drug is now approved for you to be given, and it shows extraordinary effect. So, every year we have new drugs getting approved, and we are also trying to get it used to be a little bit of a richness on the HER2-positive disease. And now we are seeing definitely a lot of richness on hormone receptor- positive disease. And I think we’re starting to see some new particular immunotherapy and other targeted therapies showing some response in triple- negative breast cancer.  

Now, I know that’s a place that we still need to see more newer therapies, but overall, in the stage IV setting, we have really many options to keep them in good quality of life and longer. But people will ask, “Really, why do I even need to get to stage IV?” Really look at me and improve the curative setting. And that again, we are able to pick the higher risk patients, what me – what it means to have higher risk disease, how do we target them, newer drugs to target them. So, I think in so many ways we are doing better. And we are also getting to a place can we detect higher-risk patients, not just by their initial diagnosis and response, but follow them sequentially by circulating tumor cells?  

And we are getting to that place where we can actually do circulating tumor DNA, so just isolate the DNA, and we know what will belong to the tumor. And then circulating tumor cells seemingly even after your curative therapy. And so that is something that’s getting approved. And so we are not only seeing treatment, but we are also trying to see better detection of that reference. So, I think we are in so many ways, improving. And I am – I’ve been in this for 20 years, some of the things that thought was a dream is coming true. So, truly just keep living well and keep thriving. There are options. 

Katherine: 

Yeah. That’s, it’s positive. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yes. 

Katherine: 

Dr. Ramaswamy, along with treatment can also come side effects. What are some common side effects of breast cancer treatment? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yeah, great question. Again, an important question for you all to consider. So, let’s divide our treatment to targeted therapy and chemotherapy. The targeted therapy could be the estrogen receptors and then the HER2 because the HER2, again, remember that biomarker. And then the chemotherapy that any patient with breast cancer could get, including, of course, the triple-negative. And then we’ll touch base a little bit later on with the immunotherapy. So, when we look at the targeted therapy with estrogen receptor, anti-estrogen receptors, of course, it’s like putting you into menopause again. It’s like so you could have hot flashes, you could have some emotional liability and you could have vaginal dryness and sexual libido could be lower.  

And also you could have joint aches and pains and your bone density could go down and cause osteopenia and osteoporosis and fractures. So, those are some of the – and we can address all of those that we’ll come to later. With the HER2-targeted therapies, one of the main things will be the heart. These can affect the heart because there are some receptors that are present there that these HER2 therapies can affect the myocardial function. So, they don’t cause increase in heart attacks, but just the pumping action of your heart could go down. We keep checking your heart function to help with that. And then with the chemotherapies, other than your blood counts going down, these are acute events. Those blood counts could go down, which could put you at higher risk for infections. Again, some of the heart chemotherapies can affect the heart. So, we’ll keep an eye on that.  

And, of course, fatigue that comes with all of these treatments that can happen. But some of those chronic things that can happen is also neuropathy. So, tingling, numbness in your hands and feet, even sometimes pain in your hands and feet. And then this can stay on for a little bit longer and can cause some trouble buttoning your shirt or playing the piano or putting your earrings. So, it can affect your daily quality of life and cause pain. The other important thing, which we do have now an option is also hair loss. I know that is something hard for age. It’s so hard for women to lose hair and the consequence of being identified differently and not having that – when you look at the mirror, it’s a constant reminder.  

So, we do have something called a scalp cooling that you could take an option and discuss with your doctors whether that how helpful that’ll be for your type of chemotherapy and whether you could use it and you can – but 60 percent of the time not lose all your hair and need a wig. So, that is something that you can address. So, broadly, these are the issues that can happen. Again, this is very broad. Depending on your treatment, you still need to talk to your doctors. 

Katherine: 

How can some of these side effects be managed? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, the key thing is to be first thing that I want to advise all our patients is that be vocal about your side effects. Okay? Sometimes we all think, okay, they did tell me I’m supposed to have all the side effects. I just need to keep quiet about it. That’s not what is important. And I think I did miss mentioning the GI tract changes like nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea. Again you think, oh, this is our part of all chemotherapy, I just need to keep quiet. No, that’s not the case because we actually give you anti-nausea medications before the chemotherapy. So, if it’s not effective, you need to have to tell your doctors, “Okay, this time I had a couple of sensations of nausea, but no vomiting.” 

Or “No, I was vomiting a lot.” Whatever it is. Even if  you had just nausea, it’s important to tell your doctors. If it’s diarrhea, you need to tell them. We do give you some medications, but if it’s not working, you need to tell them. And again, we always underplay the issues with sexual side effects because you don’t want to talk about that. I mean, it’s not important. No, it is important.  

It’s important for your intimacy, it’s important for your life, and it’s important for you to speak because there are supportive care therapies that we can provide. Neuropathy, again, I think your doctors will always ask you, but being vocal about it, being honest about it, and talking about it is important. So, again, fatigue.  

They are going talk to you about exercise, because exercise does overcome that fatigue. But if you’re not able to do it again, it’s honest to say, “No, but I didn’t do what you said last time.” So don’t feel bad about it. And there could be other ways we can improve your fatigue too. So, again, sharing those side effects is important and we can. We can address all of these side effects. Now, I’m not saying the minute we address these side effects it’s all going to go away completely, but they can get better. And it’s important for you to talk about it and get those supportive care measures. 

Katherine: 

Yeah, thank you for that. It’s really helpful. And it actually leads us into the next topic. Coping with emotions that come along with a breast cancer diagnosis such as anxiety and depression can be challenging. Why is it important to share emotional concerns with your healthcare team? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Yeah, so I think one of the things that the breast cancer patients, I mean, I would say all cancer patients, I’ll be honest, or any kind of chronic illness, fearful illness. And I think most what they – I think what hurts them most is the how isolating the journey is because despite having very close family and they might have full trust in their providers. At the end of the day, those fears, those sorrow of potential mortality and all the side effects has to be gone through them. They’ve got to go through that. And then validating their anxiety, validating their fears, validating their symptoms is so important. So, that’s why telling your patient I understand. Whatever it is, you’re going through an isolating journey, it’s hard, and I validate all your concerns that you have.  

We can’t really compare apples to apples here like patient to patient because you – we all have an inherent approach to a critical problem. And this is a critical problem that comes into your life and whatever that approach is of what – how you’re going to approach this. So, there’s no right or wrong and how she copes and you cope. And sometimes family does that and sometimes your own friends do that. Like, oh, it’s okay, but see she did well and she and you know and see how she’s coping. It doesn’t help. I think so educating the family as well to say or the spouse particularly validate their concerns, give validation and acknowledge their concerns and then say something positive to help them move forward. And I think these are important. And I think what I tell my patients is that I will never know what you’re going through if you don’t share it with me.  

And this would be both emotional and your physical and okay, I can pick some of it with your in a body language, but I can’t really pick the depth of the problems and we can address how to find solutions. The third point that’s important is there are solutions for this. It’s not like they’re going to get better completely, but we can help you. We can help you whether it’s emotional anxiety symptoms, we can find peer group that could help. We can find psychosocial counseling that can help. We can also help with actual treatment and medications that helps with depression and anxiety that we can manage better. And we can help you with your sleep because sleep is so important. And when you’re sleeping is when you start worrying about many things.  

And the same way with all your other physical side effects, there are some things that we can do. We are never going to say, “Well, put up with this. You just have to go through this to get better.” We never say that. We will try to address it in some way. Now, I do understand the limitations of what we can do and it doesn’t always get better to everybody, but if you don’t tell us, we can’t even try.  

So, it’s so important to share and sometimes sharing all this reduces the burden on you. So, and I think that’s important as well, so. 

Katherine: 

Dr. Ramaswamy, before we move on to answering questions from our breast cancer community, I’d like to touch upon the concept of shared decision- making. In your mind, what does that mean? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, it is a concept that has come more lately in our lives. Even as I started, we didn’t – not that we didn’t do it, we didn’t give it a name. And I think now giving it a name always helps because we always think about it and make sure we are doing it. I think the shared decision-making is important on two levels. Sometimes we do have treatment options that are very similar as far as outcomes, so.  

It is important to understand what are the goals of the patient. Is it that even if it’s a 0.5 percent increasing their cure rate, is that their goal? Or really looking at the benefits versus the risks and versus side effects and trying to reduce the side effects and quality of life. So, I think this – those kinds of things, this will never be addressed if you don’t understand our patient and give them an opportunity to speak out what they want.  

So, I think in – and this happens in every aspect of their journey, right? So, it is important even if they say sometimes they’ll talk about sexual side effects and we talk about it and we offer some clinics. And they might say, you know what? At this point, I think I know you’ve shared with me certain ways. Let me try it and then I’ll tell you when. So, everything is the shared decision-making because that’s when we have the highest sense of compliance and to feel a sense of feeling that they’re being heard, and we are in this together. And if we are not in this together, it is almost impossible to get the best outcomes both from quality of life and also survival. So – 

Katherine: 

Yeah. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

– that’s where the shared decision-making comes to. So, understanding the patient better and the patient understanding their outcomes better. 

Katherine: 

Yeah. Well, let’s get to a few audience questions that we received before the program. Rebecca writes, “I have skin itching as a side effect of my treatment. Is there anything that could be done to help?” 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, it depends on what she’s on and I’m going to assume maybe possibly like trastuzumab (Herceptin), pertuzumab (Perjeta) which are anti-HER2 therapies. They are – they can cause skin itching because they also get it for a year. So, I think the most important thing is of course discussing with your provider because is it one of these drugs that you’re on? Sometimes if it doesn’t get better with some of the – first things that we do is make sure you don’t have dry skin, that you’re ensuring that you’re putting a lot of moisturizers and addressing those. Where is your skin itching? Is there a rash associated with it.  

And so we kind of look at all of that and we can also give you some anti-itch medications if your itching is more at night when we all go to sleep. So, we can do that. And if it’s still there, then your provider can look at the pros and cons of is this drug causing it and is it worth pursuing it despite your itching, or taking it off so that it can improve quality of life. So, I think the most important thing is to make sure you talk to your doctor. And then they look at all of the others, the extent of their itching, the timing of their itching, and is there a rash, and then see whether the drug is causing and decide about holding or not holding the drug. 

Katherine: 

Okay. Good advice. Susan wants to know, have there been any advances in imaging or screening for a recurrence? And can anything be done to help prevent a recurrence? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, let me answer the first question. So, we did – we have done clinical trials where patients got imaging that meaning CT scans even if they don’t have symptoms every four months, as opposed to the other group had only scans when they got symptoms. And we looked at two outcomes. One is, are they surviving longer? Because that is, of course, our primary goal. But actually, the secondary goal was, is their quality of life better? 

Katherine: 

No. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Many of us knew that survival is not going to improve because we understand this disease. So, you did not. The two groups do not have any difference in survival, but we were very surprised to see even the quality of life was not improved. That’s because every time you have a scan, there’s a lot of anxiety what you’re going to say. And then if there is some somewhere that could be nothing at all, now they say, I’m not sure whether it’s inflammatory or metastatic. Now you have to go and biopsy. Now the biopsy can lead to some side, I mean, some complications, or sometimes we’ll say, no, we can’t biopsy it. We’re going to watch it closely.  

Now it’s easy for me to say, and then I’ll walk out and go and see the next patient. But you are going to carry this heavy burden in your mind and think about, oh, my God, four months I’m going to wait. What if it’s grown? So, there’s a lot of anxiety that induces that we are not able to address. So, that’s why we don’t do routine imaging for all patients. But we have a very low threshold to do the imaging if you have symptoms that we are concerned about.  

And I generally educate my patients any persistent progressive symptoms. So, two-piece persistent progressive symptom. Please call, don’t even wait for the next appointment, and then we’ll move forward from that. So, as far as imaging, I can’t say that we have a better tool to identify those little mats and do something better. But like I had said before in this particular meeting, we are now looking to see whether we can find that circulating tumor cells or circulating in tumor DNA.  

And if that proves out to be good, we have some late FDA approval of a test. But if it is going to impact patients’ lives by doing this on a routine basis and we think we can start the treatment earlier and impact their outcomes, you are going to have another test that we can do, which is even simpler, which is just a blood draw test.  

So, I think we are going in that direction and we’ll know a little bit more soon. Now, your second question was, can we prevent a recurrence? So, everything that we are doing is to prevent a recurrence, right? Because if you think about it, your tumor is going to be removed by surgery, and so it’s out. And we are going to do additional radiation, which to just kind of pick those little cells if they’re left. And in certain circumstances, I would say in most circumstances we would do radiation. But we are also doing all these treatments that we talked about, chemotherapy, antiestrogen therapy. We are doing it longer. We are doing anti-HER2 therapy. We’re trying to pick those high-risk patients who didn’t respond so well. We are giving them more treatments to treat. They’re all to prevent a recurrence.  

That’s what we are doing. But the – I’m – we did talk about two other things as well. Exercising, eating right, making sure you’re not gaining weight, and making sure you’re engaged because your reduced stress and lack of – increased happiness improves good cells in your body, less inflammation in your body, all of this will help. Okay? And no doubt all of this to is to help your – reduce your recurrence. But the thing is what we are not able to say to a patient is that, okay, we’ve done all this, 100 percent you’re not going to have a recurrence. We don’t have that level of confidence in what we do. We can say you reduced your risk of recurrence, but we can’t just say you have zero chance of recurrence. That’s where we still can improve and we’ll continue to do better, so. 

Katherine: 

Thank you for those responses, Dr. Ramaswamy, and please continue to send in your questions to powerful to question@powerfulpatients.org, and we’ll work to get them answered on future programs.  

Well, to close out our conversation, Dr. Ramaswamy, I’d like to get your thoughts on where we stand with research progress. Are you hopeful? 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Extraordinarily hopeful. I mean, and I say this like I even said before, some of the things I was skeptical about. I have to pull back my skepticism, which I’m very, very happy about. The role of immunotherapy starting to come into breast cancer, newer drugs, oh my god, therapeutics has improved our understanding of how to prevent these cancers. Picking up those high-risk patients, looking at these liquid biopsies, our understanding of genomics and precision oncology, I just have so much hopes. Management of brain mats with radiation treatments that are so targeted, improving, reducing, or mitigating the side effects with the treat – with the less treatments for those patients who have less risk. I mean, in every possible way, we are improving the way – what we are doing. Can we do better? Particularly in some areas I do want to bring it out. I think we still lag behind in health equity.  

I think still a in African American patients with the breast cancer has a higher risk of dying from breast cancer. We haven’t really impacted it as well as we can do. I think understanding the ancestry, understanding the risk, understanding the lifestyle behaviors that increases the risk of these aggressive cancers, say in African American women and in –and those are very, very important. Prevention is so much better than cure, right? So, I think a little bit better of our understanding on prevention and the liquidity. Both access and understanding the biology and treatment. Improving our clinical trial approvals. We still only even in the best cancer centers, we only approve 25 percent of our patients, 15 to 25 percent of our patients into cancer clinical trials. And look at the changes we’ve had.   

But imagine if we can put 50 percent of our patients on clinical trials, we’ll double the progress because without those clinical trials, none of these drugs can be approved. 

Katherine: 

Yeah.  

Dr. Ramaswamy:

So, what is today in a clinical trial is what is a tomorrow-approved drug. So, our understanding and talking about that becomes very, very important for us. And then I think lastly, there are some breast cancer like invasive lobular cancers that are only 15 percent that we still don’t understand as well. And so there are some more little pockets that I think we still need to understand. Male breast cancers are slightly starting to increase. We need to improve. So, there are areas we can do better, but overall, it’s absolute promising and very, very happy today. Our research is going really well, so, and it’s impacting patients’ outcomes.  

Katherine: 

Dr. Ramaswamy, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. 

Dr. Ramaswamy:

Thank you so much for taking this to the patients. I appreciate you. So, thank you. 

Katherine: 

And thank you to all of our partners. If you’d like to watch this webinar again, there will be a replay available soon. You’ll receive an email when it’s ready. And don’t forget to take the survey immediately following this webinar. It will help us as we plan future programs. To learn more about breast cancer and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit  powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell, thanks for being with us today. 

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