Tag Archive for: Mayo Clinic

Overcoming Barriers in Myelofibrosis Care: Challenges Faced by Patients and Providers

/in , , , /by

Overcoming Barriers in Myelofibrosis Care: Challenges Faced by Patients and Providers from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are key myelofibrosis barriers and solutions for healthcare providers? Experts Dr. Raajit Rampal from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. Jeanne Palmer from Mayo Clinic discuss common obstacles to myelofibrosis care and methods they’ve used to overcome barriers including collaborative care tips.

See More from EPEP MPNs

Related Resources:

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care

 HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

 Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Dr. Palmer, can you speak to some of the obstacles or barriers faced by healthcare providers themselves when treating myelofibrosis patients?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

I think one of the challenging pieces, you know, I know in Arizona, we have a pretty big catchment area, because there’s not only the Phoenix metropolitan area, but there are a lot of smaller communities scattered throughout Arizona. And I think one of the issues that we have is, let’s say I want to start somebody on a new medication that potentially has a side effect of anemia or something. Being able to manage them remotely is difficult, because a lot of times they may require a blood transfusion. Can they even get a blood transfusion where they’re at? Can they afford the 5-hour drive down to Phoenix to get that? So I think sometimes, even access to simple things, well, I guess it’s not that simple, but things like blood transfusions can be hard. Fortunately for labs, you’re often able to get them most places through various Labcorp, Quest, et cetera. But sometimes any type of infusional treatment can be really, really hard to get.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you. Do you have anything to add, Dr. Rampal, with regard to barriers faced by providers?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

No, I actually think that’s an important, that’s a really important thing. Because it depends on your area of the country and what access to resources patients have locally. If we’re thinking about this as sort of a hub and spoke model, that may be the outdated model. In other words, it’s not that people can afford to, you know, from a financial perspective or a time perspective, come into the major center and then go back. They need to get access to care locally, but you have to have the infrastructure, the healthcare infrastructure, if you will, to deliver that care. And that’s a difficult problem in many parts of the country.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Dr. Rampal, can you speak to unforeseen or maybe outdated practice-related barriers that may hinder your work and that of your colleagues with regard to myelofibrosis treatment?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Yeah, I guess my broad answer to this is that things are changing rapidly and the pace of change is accelerated. In other words, when we think about myelofibrosis, the treatment paradigm probably, if you think about the last 15 years, in the early part of that, things were kind of relatively static and now they’re not as new knowledge emerges, as new treatments emerge. And the challenge here, again, speaking in general terms is, as Dr. Palmer pointed out, this is a rare disease. It’s not something that’s frequently seen by physicians in the community. So how do you keep people up to date on something that is not the majority of what they do? It’s a very small percentage of what they see and do. And that’s an ongoing challenge. And I’m not sure there’s any perfect solution to that except for education. It’s just a question of how do you deliver that in a time-effective manner so that people can devote some time to getting up to date? But it is ultimately a good problem that things are changing rapidly.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. And, Dr. Palmer, do you have any solutions or actions or things that healthcare providers can do as this treatment landscape rapidly evolves?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

I think it’s a real challenge because even when we look at sort of the dogma of like, well, what’s the response criteria? I mean, when you’re thinking of a lot of like solid tumors, you think, okay, did the tumor shrink a certain amount? Did the tumor go away? With myelofibrosis, when we think about even response criteria, it’s really challenging. So I think I agree education is part of it, and it’s trying to figure out how to distill down the really important components of how do you manage these patients day-to-day? We can talk about the COMFORT study and the MOMENTUM study and everything else all we want to, that tested, were major studies that tested the drugs that we use, but then the nuances of how to manage them day-to-day is something that I think we could probably improve upon how we educate.

Share Your Feedback

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care

/in , , , /by

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How is myelofibrosis care impacted by barriers, and what are solutions for healthcare providers to overcome them? Experts Dr. Raajit Rampal from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. Jeanne Palmer from Mayo Clinic discuss different access barriers that impact quality of care and ways that healthcare providers can help close disparity gaps for patients.

See More from EPEP MPNs

Related Resources:

Expert Insights on Overcoming Barriers to Myelofibrosis Care

Overcoming Barriers in Myelofibrosis Care: Challenges Faced by Patients and Providers

 HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

 Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Transcript: 

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So we’re going to start by diving into the nuanced challenges and practice barriers in myelofibrosis care. We know that some of those factors may be related to socioeconomic factors and health disparities. So, Dr. Rampal, I’m going to start with you. What are the primary barriers in myelofibrosis care, and how might these barriers impact accessing effective treatment for myelofibrosis?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Well, I think it’s broad in the sense that, if we think about access to care, I think that part of the problem lies in underdiagnosis, and that is really on the end of the spectrum of access to primary care I’d say, are people getting in and getting regular blood count checks, the things that are going to tip somebody off that, you know, if somebody has a hematologic issue or problem, I think that is a big part of the entire discussion and spectrum here. And then the second thing is that this is a rare disease, and there are a handful of specialists throughout the world who deal with this.

And so making sure that patients have access to expert care, which is not to undermine the quality care that’s provided in the community, but this is more a question about do patients have access to, you know, clinical trials or to the most updated knowledge, and that to me really revolves around people being able to have access to tertiary care referral center who has a myelofibrosis expert. So I think those are some of the barriers, at least in my mind.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much. And, Dr. Palmer, I’d love to get your insight as well. From your perspective, what are the primary barriers to accessing effective treatment, and what strategies can be implemented to overcome these barriers?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

So I agree with everything that Dr. Rampal said, but I’d also want to add to it, like many people would have to travel a distance to see that specialist. And so one of the ways that I’ve been able to try to overcome that thus far is by telemedicine. So being able to have that ability to contact somebody over the Internet, I think, especially if they’re getting very good care locally, just being able to provide that sort of expert additional advice about how to manage their disease, what different options are available.

Fortunately, this is a space where new drugs are coming pretty rapidly. So I think that having the ability to be able to weed through all of these different drugs, understand the pros and cons of them, and advise patients is good. And if they can’t make it to see you, then they can’t get advice about the medications nor can the providers. Because recognizing this is such a rare disease, a community provider has a lot to keep track of. So trying to keep track of something that impacts so few patients is hard to do. I think the other big barrier is cost and support for getting these medications.

These medications are all, unfortunately, quite expensive, and new drugs that are coming down the horizon will probably be so as well. So being able to find the right support for them, even when insurance covers it, it’s sometimes with a very large copay. So trying to handle access to these drugs, not only in the knowledge of which drugs to give, but also the ability to be able to pay for them.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. Thank you both for elucidating some of those barriers. And you both mentioned that this is a rare disease and, Dr. Rampal, you also talked about expert care. And so I’d love to know, and I’ll start with you, Dr. Rampal, how do referral patterns impact treatment access in myelofibrosis and particularly for underserved populations?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

This is a really interesting question, because things are changing in the sense that, I think at least in the New York area, but probably true elsewhere, there’s increasing consolidation of healthcare as hospital systems buy up smaller practices. And that means that referral patterns are going to change and are changing. There’s more of an impetus for docs to refer patients within their own health network. And they may or may not have access to expert care within their network. I think that’s one thing to keep in mind.

And the second is that, the elephant in the room here is that you have to have insurance to get into these networks. You have to have the right insurance. And do all of these big academic tertiary centers accept every kind of insurance? The answer is no, they don’t. So right off the bat, you have a systemic barrier, but then with the changing referral patterns, and I think likely certain insurances being more likely to be accepted in certain networks, you’ve already kind of fragmented the entire system. So, is there a streamlined way for patients to get in? Right now, I think the answer is no, there are a lot of barriers.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you, Dr. Rampal. Dr. Palmer, do you have anything to add? And also if you can touch on what healthcare providers should be aware of and what they can pay close attention to with regard to these barriers that you and Dr. Rampal have discussed?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Right, so I completely agree with everything he said. I think it’s a real challenge, especially as you parse apart these different healthcare systems. I think one of the important things for patients to know and what providers can help with is providing sort of access to some of the patient advocacy sites. On these patient advocacy sites, they can find the name of different providers, and sometimes that helps them call in to get a referral. Now, the insurance coverage is another challenge that’s a lot harder to manage. But I think one thing that patients can do is if within their own network, there isn’t an expert, at least being able to go to these patient advocacy sites, finding out who they should, who they can go see.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful, thank you. Well, we’ve been talking about how certain populations may experience more barriers. And certainly we know that’s at the root of health and healthcare disparities. So I want to move and start to talk a little bit about cultural competency. And I’ll go back to you, Dr. Rampal, what role do you believe cultural competency plays in addressing barriers in myelofibrosis care?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Yeah, I think one of the major tasks is to be aware that cultural competency is important. That to me is sort of the first step in everything. And in making this a little bit more granular. Not every patient approaches their disease or their diagnosis in the same way. And a lot of that is informed by their cultural beliefs, their community. And this is something, you know, living in a place in like New York where we see people from all different cultures, this is a striking thing because there are people who, for example, you know, they come from, you know, strong religious faith backgrounds. Their approach to things is different.

In some respects, they approach the disease and the need for treatment in a very different way than people who come from other cultural communities or those who are, let’s say, even not coming from a religious setting. But if you’re not aware of those and you try to put the same sort of treatment paradigm on all patients, you’re going to run into conflicts at some point. So I think to me, the first step is to be aware that these things influence how people perceive their disease, how they perceive the treatments or their desire to even be treated. But if you’re not aware of those things at the outset, then you’re going to run into those issues, I think.

 

Share Your Feedback

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers

/in , , , /by

HCP Roundtable: Breaking Through Myelofibrosis Practice Barriers from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Explore the complex challenges and barriers in myelofibrosis care with Dr. Raajit K. Rampal from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer from the Mayo Clinic. Gain insights into therapeutic inertia, effective strategies for overcoming care barriers, and enhancing patient-centric care to improve myelofibrosis outcomes.

Related Resources:

Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden

Tracking MPN Symptoms: Strategies for Managing Disease Burden

 Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms

Are There Non-Pharmacologic Strategies for Managing Myeloproliferative Neoplasms?

 Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Explaining Myeloproliferative Neoplasm Disease Progression to Patients

Transcript:

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Welcome to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients EPEP program. I’m Dr. Nicole Rochester, founder and CEO of Your GPS Doc. EPEP is a Patient Empowerment Network program that serves as a secure space for healthcare providers to learn techniques for improving physician-patient communication and to overcome practice barriers. In this healthcare provider roundtable, we are discussing breaking through myelofibrosis practice barriers.

We’re going to talk about the nuanced challenges and practice barriers in myelofibrosis care. How do patient socioeconomic factors impact treatment access? We will look at gaps in the field and overcoming practice barriers such as lack of awareness, outdated practices, and therapeutic inertia, while also addressing solutions to enhance patient-centric care in myelofibrosis for improved patient outcomes. 

It is my privilege to be joined by Dr. Raajit K. Rampal of Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Dr. Rampal is a clinical translational investigator whose research focuses on the genetic events that contribute to the development and progression of leukemia and myeloproliferative neoplasms. Thank you so much for joining this EPEP program, Dr. Rampal. 

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Thanks so much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

It’s also an honor to be joined by Dr. Jeanne Palmer, hematologist at Mayo Clinic. Dr. Palmer’s interest is in identifying novel targeted therapies for patients with myeloproliferative neoplasms. She strives to offer innovative therapies to patients in all stages of their disease through clinical trials. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Palmer.

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

So we’re going to start today’s discussion by diving into the nuanced challenges and practice barriers in myelofibrosis care. We know that some of those factors may be related to socioeconomic factors and health disparities. So, Dr. Rampal, I’m going to start with you. What are the primary barriers in myelofibrosis care, and how might these barriers impact accessing effective treatment for myelofibrosis?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Well, I think it’s broad in the sense that, if we think about access to care, I think that part of the problem lies in underdiagnosis, and that is really on the end of the spectrum of access to primary care I’d say, are people getting in and getting regular blood count checks, the things that are going to tip somebody off that, you know, if somebody has a hematologic issue or problem, I think that is a big part of the entire discussion and spectrum here.

And then the second thing is that this is a rare disease, and there are a handful of specialists throughout the world who deal with this. And so making sure that patients have access to expert care, which is not to undermine the quality care that’s provided in the community, but this is more a question about do patients have access to, you know, clinical trials or to the most updated knowledge, and that to me really revolves around people being able to have access to tertiary care referral center who has a myelofibrosis expert. So I think those are some of the barriers, at least in my mind.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much. And, Dr. Palmer, I’d love to get your insight as well. From your perspective, what are the primary barriers to accessing effective treatment, and what strategies can be implemented to overcome these barriers?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

So I agree with everything that Dr. Rampal said, but I’d also want to add to it, like many people would have to travel a distance to see that specialist. And so one of the ways that I’ve been able to try to overcome that thus far is by telemedicine. So being able to have that ability to contact somebody over the Internet, I think, especially if they’re getting very good care locally, just being able to provide that sort of expert additional advice about how to manage their disease, what different options are available. Fortunately, this is a space where new drugs are coming pretty rapidly.

So I think that having the ability to be able to weed through all of these different drugs, understand the pros and cons of them, and advise patients is good. And if they can’t make it to see you, then they can’t get advice about the medications nor can the providers. Because recognizing this is such a rare disease, a community provider has a lot to keep track of. So trying to keep track of something that impacts so few patients is hard to do. I think the other big barrier is cost and support for getting these medications.

These medications are all, unfortunately, quite expensive, and new drugs that are coming down the horizon will probably be so as well. So being able to find the right support for them, even when insurance covers it, it’s sometimes with a very large copay. So trying to handle access to these drugs, not only in the knowledge of which drugs to give, but also the ability to be able to pay for them.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. Thank you both for elucidating some of those barriers. And you both mentioned that this is a rare disease and, Dr. Rampal, you also talked about expert care. And so I’d love to know, and I’ll start with you, Dr. Rampal, how do referral patterns impact treatment access in myelofibrosis and particularly for underserved populations?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

This is a really interesting question, because things are changing in the sense that, I think at least in the New York area, but probably true elsewhere, there’s increasing consolidation of healthcare as hospital systems buy up smaller practices. And that means that referral patterns are going to change and are changing. There’s more of an impetus for docs to refer patients within their own health network. And they may or may not have access to expert care within their network. I think that’s one thing to keep in mind.

And the second is that, the elephant in the room here is that you have to have insurance to get into these networks. You have to have the right insurance. And do all of these big academic tertiary centers accept every kind of insurance? The answer is no, they don’t. So right off the bat, you have a systemic barrier, but then with the changing referral patterns, and I think likely certain insurances being more likely to be accepted in certain networks, you’ve already kind of fragmented the entire system. So, is there a streamlined way for patients to get in? Right now, I think the answer is no, there are a lot of barriers.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you, Dr. Rampal. Dr. Palmer, do you have anything to add? And also if you can touch on what healthcare providers should be aware of and what they can pay close attention to with regard to these barriers that you and Dr. Rampal have discussed?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Right, so I completely agree with everything he said. I think it’s a real challenge, especially as you parse apart these different healthcare systems. I think one of the important things for patients to know and what providers can help with is providing sort of access to some of the patient advocacy sites. On these patient advocacy sites, they can find the name of different providers, and sometimes that helps them call in to get a referral.

Now, the insurance coverage is another challenge that’s a lot harder to manage. But I think one thing that patients can do is if within their own network, there isn’t an expert, at least being able to go to these patient advocacy sites, finding out who they should, who they can go see.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful, thank you. Well, we’ve been talking about how certain populations may experience more barriers. And certainly we know that’s at the root of health and healthcare disparities. So I want to move and start to talk a little bit about cultural competency. And I’ll go back to you, Dr. Rampal, what role do you believe cultural competency plays in addressing barriers in myelofibrosis care?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Yeah, I think one of the major tasks is to be aware that cultural competency is important. That to me is sort of the first step in everything. And in making this a little bit more granular. Not every patient approaches their disease or their diagnosis in the same way. And a lot of that is informed by their cultural beliefs, their community. And this is something, you know, living in a place like New York where we see people from all different cultures, this is a striking thing because there are people who, for example, you know, they come from, you know, strong religious faith backgrounds. Their approach to things is different.

In some respects, they approach the disease and the need for treatment in a very different way than people who come from other cultural communities or those who are, let’s say, even not coming from a religious setting. But if you’re not aware of those and you try to put the same sort of treatment paradigm on all patients, you’re going to run into conflicts at some point. So I think to me, the first step is to be aware that these things influence how people perceive their disease, how they perceive the treatments or their desire to even be treated. But if you’re not aware of those things at the outset, then you’re going to run into those issues, I think.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much, Dr. Rampal. Well, we’ve been talking about the barriers that patients face. Dr. Palmer, can you speak to some of the obstacles or barriers faced by healthcare providers themselves when treating myelofibrosis patients?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

I think one of the challenging pieces, you know, I know in Arizona, we have a pretty big catchment area, because there’s not only the Phoenix metropolitan area, but there are a lot of smaller communities scattered throughout Arizona. And I think one of the issues that we have is, let’s say I want to start somebody on a new medication that potentially has a side effect of anemia or something.

Being able to manage them remotely is difficult, because a lot of times they may require a blood transfusion. Can they even get a blood transfusion where they’re at? Can they afford the 5-hour drive down to Phoenix to get that? So I think sometimes, even access to simple things, well, I guess it’s not that simple, but things like blood transfusions can be hard. Fortunately for labs, you’re often able to get them most places through various Labcorp, Quest, et cetera. But sometimes any type of infusional treatment can be really, really hard to get.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you. Do you have anything to add, Dr. Rampal, with regard to barriers faced by providers?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

No, I actually think that’s an important, that’s a really important thing. Because it depends on your area of the country and what access to resources patients have locally. If we’re thinking about this as sort of a hub and spoke model, that may be the outdated model. In other words, it’s not that people can afford to, you know, from a financial perspective or a time perspective, come into the major center and then go back. They need to get access to care locally, but you have to have the infrastructure, the healthcare infrastructure, if you will, to deliver that care. And that’s a difficult problem in many parts of the country.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. Wonderful. Well, you talked about something maybe being outdated. That’s a perfect segue to our next conversation. And so I’ll start with you this time, Dr. Rampal. Can you speak to unforeseen or maybe outdated practice-related barriers that may hinder your work and that of your colleagues with regard to myelofibrosis treatment?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Yeah, I guess my broad answer to this is that things are changing rapidly and the pace of change is accelerated. In other words, when we think about myelofibrosis, the treatment paradigm probably, if you think about the last 15 years, in the early part of that, things were kind of relatively static and now they’re not as new knowledge emerges, as new treatments emerge. And the challenge here, again, speaking in general terms is, as Dr. Palmer pointed out, this is a rare disease. It’s not something that’s frequently seen by physicians in the community.

So how do you keep people up to date on something that is not the majority of what they do? It’s a very small percentage of what they see and do. And that’s an ongoing challenge. And I’m not sure there’s any perfect solution to that except for education. It’s just a question of how do you deliver that in a time-effective manner so that people can devote some time to getting up to date? But it is ultimately a good problem that things are changing rapidly.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. And, Dr. Palmer, do you have any solutions or actions or things that healthcare providers can do as this treatment landscape rapidly evolves?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

I think it’s a real challenge because even when we look at sort of the dogma of like, well, what’s the response criteria? I mean, when you’re thinking of a lot of like solid tumors, you think, okay, did the tumor shrink a certain amount? Did the tumor go away? With myelofibrosis, when we think about even response criteria, it’s really challenging.

So I think I agree education is part of it, and it’s trying to figure out how to distill down the really important components of how do you manage these patients day-to-day? We can talk about the COMFORT study and the MOMENTUM study and everything else all we want to, that tested, were major studies that tested the drugs that we use, but then the nuances of how to manage them day-to-day is something that I think we could probably improve upon how we educate.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you. So as we move on to our final topic, we’re going to start talking about collaborative care. You all have spoken about this being a rare disease, the need for expert care, the fact that not everyone has access to that expert care. And so the reality is that it’s going to take more than just experts like yourself in order to manage these patients. And so, Dr. Palmer, I’m going to start with you. What are the key components of an effective collaborative care ecosystem for myelofibrosis? And how can healthcare providers integrate these components to ensure comprehensive patient care?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Well, I think one of the most important things is really making sure you’re having conversations with the patients, are able to sort of elucidate what’s really important to them and how they’re feeling. I think many patients actually are very aware of things that they want to or don’t want to do. And so, and then in a disease like this one, where there are lots of different options, there are also just nuances in the way you sort of treat things like, okay, do you want to take this side effect or that side effect? Or how do you want to approach this? Being able to have those conversations to really get their input on it is very important.

That’s one of the reasons I really enjoy treating this disease is because it’s not so regimented in how you do it. It becomes really a conversation, understanding how the patient’s feeling, understanding the side effects that they’re having, so you can better determine how you should continue with the therapy.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. I appreciate that. And I appreciate that you brought in the patient perspective when we’re speaking about collaborative care, because, of course, they need to be involved in their part of their medical team. Dr. Rampal, what about the healthcare providers? How can you cultivate a collaborative ecosystem with other healthcare providers as you all provide care for myelofibrosis?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

Part of my advice here is simple, which is to pick up the phone. And I’ll tell you why I put it that way. I think that what happens…and this is something I always emphasize to our trainees, because I don’t think this is something that’s taught. This is, as they call it, a soft skill. But there is, I think, a tendency, at least in academic centers, for people to want to ensconce themselves in the ivory tower. And that doesn’t help, because you have to communicate with the people taking care of the patients.

And the simplest way to do that is to pick up the phone and call the referring doctor who they’re seeing in the community, and say, “Listen, I saw your patient. Here’s what I think. I’d like to share the care with the patient. I can see them every six months. Please keep me updated. This is my cell phone number. Call me if there’s a problem.” That, to me, has been the most simple, effective tool to build collaborative partnerships with physicians in the community. And it’s not something that I think is taught, but we have to do that. We have to break down these barriers between specialty care or academic care and community care. I think that’s one of the best things we can do to help patients get the care they need.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

And what a simple tool, just picking up the phone. We often try to create complex technological solutions. And you’re right. It’s just as simple as picking up the phone and having that one-on-one conversation. So thank you for adding that. Dr. Palmer, how can multidisciplinary teams be best utilized to improve outcomes in myelofibrosis care?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

So it always takes a village to treat a patient. I think that making sure that you have…that your social workers or case managers have good access to different resources to help with patients. As I said, one of the biggest challenges is paying for these drugs. So having a good team of social workers or case managers who are really able to tap into resources, so patients can get access to these drugs is really important. Making sure that you have good nursing support.

One of the things that’s really important is I can ask my nurse, “Hey, look, can you check in on this person in the next few weeks to see how they’re doing with their new medication?” And even having good APPs. I’m very fortunate to have a couple of APPs I work with who are very knowledgeable about MPN. So I don’t worry that if I’m not there to see the patient that somebody else who’s seeing the patient won’t be able to assess them in a good way. So I think having that whole cadre of people around you to support the care of that patient is critical.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Absolutely. And I appreciate that you lifted up not just the medical providers, but the case managers as well, particularly with some of the challenges that we’ve been talking about today. And, Dr. Rampal, do you have any specific solutions for how to achieve seamless coordination among the different specialists that may be involved in the patient’s care?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

No. I think it’s a difficult problem. I’m not sure there’s a clear solution. Even the simple thing of medical record systems not talking to each other; people use different medical record systems, those things all create barriers. I think that…the only thing that I think is worthwhile is making sure that you’re actively managing this communication.

In other words, when you write a note in your electronic medical system, you’re assuming that it’s getting sent and being read by the referring physician and all of that, but that’s a passive way of thinking about this. And one has to be active. One has to make sure that if there are key things to be communicated amongst all of the people taking care of a patient, as I said earlier, a simple thing is pick up the phone or make sure you have communication about your ideas and plans for the patient so that the other people, providers involved in that patient’s care are all aware of that.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Thank you so much. Yeah, the electronic medical record does not sometimes live up to those expectations, which takes us back to what you said earlier, picking up the phone. It’s time to wrap up our roundtable. And I must say I have enjoyed this conversation so much. And as we bring this program to a close, I’d love to get closing thoughts from each of you.

And so I’ll start with you, Dr. Palmer. What is the most important takeaway message that you want to leave other healthcare professionals who may be listening and watching this program around how we begin to eliminate barriers in myelofibrosis care?

Dr. Jeanne M. Palmer:

Well, I think one of the key factors here is to make sure that you understand what you know and then understand what you don’t know. And there are lots of us out there who are very willing to help and support in any way we can. I think this is a really challenging disease to treat. Speaking as someone who started to treat it mid-career, it was something that I realized that it’s not just about reading papers, there are a lot of nuances to it. So really not having the fear of asking.

Also, to really tap into patient advocacy organizations. There are a number of really good organizations that provide excellent education opportunities for patients and making sure that patients are aware of those so that they can be able to do their own Google search, but not necessarily in a non-constructive fashion. So really tapping into those patient advocacy groups is really important.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Wonderful. And what about you, Dr. Rampal? What’s a closing takeaway message for our audience?

Dr. Raajit K. Rampal:

I think open lines of communication. I think that from the perspective of providers in the community, we want to know that you have questions. We want to make ourselves available to answer those questions. And so I would much rather be inundated with questions specific to a patient’s care than not to hear from somebody.

And then I think from the specialist side of things, we have to make ourselves available to address these questions and make ourselves accessible. So I think in as much as possible, opening up lines of communication is one of the keys to overcoming some of these barriers. Obviously, there are systemic barriers here that require systemic solutions, but on a granular level I think those are the things we can do.

Dr. Nicole Rochester:

Well, I want to thank you both. Thank you, Dr. Palmer. Thank you, Dr. Rampal. As always, this has been a very informative conversation. We talked about many of the barriers to myelofibrosis care. We talked about some of the systemic and structural barriers, but we’ve also talked about barriers that healthcare providers can overcome.

And ultimately, the take-home message for me is communication. Communication with our patients in a way that they can understand, in a way that they like to receive information, having respect for cultural differences, and communication and collaboration with each other. So again, thank you both for all of the information that you shared. And thank you all for tuning in to this Empowering Providers to Empower Patients Patient Empowerment Network Program. I’m Dr. Nicole Rochester. Thank you for watching.

Share Your Feedback

PODCAST: Myeloma Patient Expert Q&A: Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi

/in , , , /by

 

 
In this START HERE myeloma program, Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic spotlights priorities in the rapidly expanding myeloma treatment landscape. Watch as Dr. Ailawadhi addresses pressing questions submitted by patients and families, providing invaluable guidance and reassurance in navigating the complexities of myeloma care.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Transcript:

Lisa Hatifield:

Hello and welcome. My name is Lisa Hatfield, your host for this Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program, where we bridge the expert and patient voice to enable you and me to feel comfortable asking questions of our healthcare teams. The world is complicated, but understanding your multiple myeloma doesn’t have to be. The goal is to create actionable pathways for getting the most out of myeloma treatment and survivorship.

Joining me today is Dr. Ailawadhi, back by popular demand. Dr. Ailawadhi is a respected multiple myeloma expert from Mayo Clinic. Dr. Ailawadhi’s career focus includes the treatment of plasma cell disorders like myeloma and understanding the epidemiology and pathophysiology of this disorder. It’s always such a pleasure having you, Dr. Ailawadhi. I’m really excited you’re joining us again. So thank you for joining us.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

And thanks a lot for having me, Lisa. This is excellent. I look forward to this next iteration of the Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. So before we dive into today’s discussion, please take a moment to download the program resource guide using the QR code. This guide contains pertinent information to guide you both before and after the program. And this program will provide you with a comprehensive update on the latest myeloma news and its implications for you and your family. Following that, we’ll launch into some questions that we have received from you.

So let’s start here. Dr. Ailawadhi, at this juncture in myeloma history, we are witnessing unprecedented activity, a surge of new treatment options, and a wealth of insights. Today, we are privileged to have your expertise to help us decipher these developments and shed light on the advancements shaping the landscape of myeloma care. First, we’re going to get a high-level update from Dr. Ailawadhi on what the latest myeloma news means for you and your family. And then we’re going to talk about some questions that you’ve sent in. So let’s get started with the high-level update, Dr. Ailawadhi. Can you speak to the latest news and priorities in the rapidly expanding myeloma treatment landscape?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Excellent. I think, Lisa, that’s an excellent and important question. Because as you rightly mentioned, there is such a large amount of data that is coming through for myeloma all the time. I mean, it’s almost, we kind of talk about the fact that every time you turn your shoulder or look over your shoulder, there is a new drug approved. So I can imagine this can be very overwhelming. So what I’ll say is that in my opinion, there are some categories of new data that are pertinent and important for our patients. 

The two or three out of them that come to my mind, one is what’s called CELMoDs, or there are a couple of agents there called iberdomide, mezigdomide. These are showing some interesting data. Important to keep in mind that they are somewhat related to the immunomodulatory drugs lenalidomide (Revlimid), pomalidomide (Pomalyst), but they’re showing benefit in patients who have had len and pom before and have progressed. So exciting stuff there.

We’re also seeing some interesting data about newer CAR Ts and bispecific antibodies. They are all coming up with some benefits in some cases. I think it’s important to keep in mind that the bispecifics are landing at the 60 to 70 percent response rate, and CAR Ts are typically landing at the 80 to 90 percent response rate, but there are more agents expected.

There are also some newer bispecifics in different classes, like one of them is called cevostamab, which is an FcRH5 inhibitor or targeting bispecific. So newer bispecific, not just more of the same category. And there has also been recent data about Bcl-2 inhibitors, which have been traditionally used for patients with translocation 11;14.

There have been some negative data, negative as in trials, which did not pan out with a drug called venetoclax (Venclexta), but there are two other drugs that had some recent data shown from different companies, which were exciting information. So in my mind, those are kind of the broad new drug categories. There is another, a couple of other quick things that I’ll mention.

One is we’re getting more and more information about real world experience with these new drugs. It’s good to see that CAR Ts are panning out very similar in the real world as they are in clinical trials. We’re also seeing that the side effect profile of a lot of these newer novel immunotherapy drugs is similar as seen in the clinical trials.

Racial ethnic disparities are something which are very close to my heart, and there is more and more information coming out in that. Unfortunately, highlighting the disparities more still rather than yet coming up with solutions. And I think the last thing that I feel which has been recent has been at the American Society of Hematology meeting in 2023, which was in December in San Diego.

One of the myeloma studies actually became a plenary session presentation, which is a pretty big deal for any disease area. So one thing is that it gets highlighted. Secondly, it was a combination of a regimen called isatuximab-irfc (Sarclisa) with carfilzomib (Kyprolis), lenalidomide, and dexamethasone (Decadron) in newly diagnosed patients.

It’s a randomized trial, Phase III, which was presented. I think the important part is we saw unprecedented deep responses and patients in much, much higher numbers than before becoming MRD-negative. So very deep responses. So these are kind of some very broad, but lots of highlights that I talked about.

Lisa Hatfield:  

All right. Thank you. So can you also talk about some of the newer tools for myeloma progression and relapse and what patients might want to know about that? And in particular, maybe talk a bit about MRD testing and the role of MRD testing for patients who relapse.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Excellent question. Lisa, I think the first and foremost thing an important part for our patients to learn is what are their “tumor markers,” for the, or disease markers for myeloma. We can follow myeloma by either the M spike or monoclonal protein, by light chains, by monoclonal protein in the urine or blood. And it’s important to keep that in mind because every now and then we’ll see patients who say, Hey, my ratio changed. So I’m progressing. Well, that comes after the light chains change. So it’s important to understand the role of these things.

So M spike in the urine, M spike in the serum and light chains. One of them is typically the marker for a patient. Now the MRD status or minimal residual disease that is looking for one cell, one myeloma cell from amongst 100,000 cells in the bone marrow. So it is looking at a very deep level. The most important benefit of MRD testing right now is to understand that if a patient turns MRD negative, then they have a superior outcome. Their prognosis is better. Their progression free survival, or the time before their disease comes back is longer. 

But when a patient is MRD-negative and is being followed or maintenance or whatever, if the bone marrow turns MRD-positive, then that might be the sign that the disease might be coming back. Right now, we do not keep switching drugs to get to MRD-negative. That is not the goal of treatment. The way to think about it is we want to get to MRD-negative, but that means it’s incumbent upon us to try and pick a regimen that is more likely to get to MRD-negative. That’s the way to think about it.

Let’s pick a regimen more likely to get us into MRD-negative and hope that we get to MRD-negative. We see every now and then that the patients keep switching regimens just to get to MRD-negative. That’s not the way to go because you’re just using up options too quickly, too fast. A common question that patients ask is, well, does that mean I need to get annual bone marrow biopsies and MRD testing? Probably not.

That’s too much testing. So what I suggest is that once somebody has turned MRD-negative, it’s important to keep an eye on every single thing. Now, change in any of the routine labs, imaging, new symptoms, etcetera. That’s when we switch to the bone marrow again and see if the patient has turned MRD-positive. There are clinical trials going on right now which are stopping drugs based on repeat MRD negativity or starting drugs on MRD positivity. But those are clinical trial questions.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you for that. So along those same lines, since you’re a Mayo physician, I’m curious about the mass spec testing. So if a patient say has been MRD-negative for some time, still wants to monitor at a deeper level, even though it’s not commercialized yet, do you see a role for mass spec testing on a regular basis in the future and being rolled out to community facilities also?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely, Lisa. I did not specifically bring it up because mass spec is not, like you rightly said, is not yet commercially available. Now we’re doing mass spec quite frequently at Mayo Clinic. Basically mass spec is taking up a blood sample. Important to keep in mind, it’s not a bone marrow test, it’s a blood test, but it looks for those abnormal proteins based on the protein weight at a much, much lower level. Our SPEP or serum protein electrophoresis does not pick up very small quantities of the protein mass spec does. So in an essence, the mass spec, if somebody is negative on that, turning mass spec negative to mass spec positive may be an earlier sign of the disease coming back rather than the SPEP yet turning positive. But as you rightly said, it is not yet commercially available. I do see the benefit of it.

There is more and more data coming in favor of it, and there was data that was also at ASH. So I do see that in the future we’ll be able to most likely have it available more widely. At this point, it is just a blood test to attempt to check the disease level at a much deeper level and be able to notice if the disease is progressing sooner than our currently available tools.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great. Thank you. And as a patient, I like to have one more data point that they can get from my blood, not from my bone marrow to assess the disease. So thank you for explaining that. Regarding survivorship, patients are living longer with myeloma in general because of the novel therapies that have come out in the past few years. So how is myeloma survivorship evolving, and what’s different now than it was five or 10 years ago in terms of treatment planning?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Yeah, I think it’s very important to keep that in mind. When I see a newly diagnosed patient, I’m not just telling them, “Hey, this is your induction therapy, and your transplant is the goal.’ We’re trying our best to decide that patient’s life journey with myeloma over the next 10, 15 and hopefully more years. So we’re trying to pick and choose the regimen that is most likely going to help the patient the most today and most likely will give a longer duration of the response. So when you say survivorship, that also very importantly brings up the point that patients are living with myeloma longer. We have to manage their health overall. So looking for any side effects from treatment, managing them very well so the patient is able to stay on the treatment and maintain good quality of life.

There are actually, are clinical trials looking at stopping treatment when there is a very deep, prolonged response. Again, going towards survivorship and giving the patient’s quality of life. There is looking for other cancers. In fact, I had a patient in the clinic and we were talking about just myeloma in general and I was telling them, “Okay, please remember you may not want to do a colonoscopy, but you already have one myeloma cancer diagnosis. The risk of subsequent cancers is always there in any cancer patient.” So that was a male person. So I said, “Okay, please do not miss your colonoscopy. Please do not miss your prostate screening and whatever is age-appropriate must be done.” So managing everything because myeloma is not a sprint, it’s a marathon.

We want to make sure that we pace ourselves well so we manage all the symptoms, all the signs. Bone health becomes much, much more important because the same bone structure is now going to carry us longer and many more years. And as you rightly said, planning, which treatment comes first, which comes next, when does CAR T come? It’s not that everybody must get CAR T today. That’s not the answer. So what to use when becomes extremely more important.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you for that. And thank you, Dr. Ailawadhi, for that important reminder. All of you watching, get your regular screenings, like he said, prostate cancer, mammograms, colonoscopies, get it done. So thank you for that.

One of the things that comes up with that regular, not regular screening, but monitoring after certain therapies for future malignancies, there’s been some discussions about post-CAR T, particularly with T-cell malignancies and monitoring for that. Can you just give a little description of that and any concerns that you have with that or any encouragement you have regarding that and whether that weighs into your treatment options that you give to patients when they are asking about CAR T therapy?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely. Extremely important question, Lisa. This really had a lot of discussion going on. It’s been going on for the past few months now. Okay. So first let’s explain the landscape. The FDA reviewed CAR T-cell treatment because of the fact that there were about 19 T-cell malignancies noted in several thousand patients.

Out of those 19 cases of T-cell malignancies, there was one case of multiple myeloma to the best of my knowledge. Now, risk of subsequent cancers is something, unfortunately, every cancer patient lives with, but in myeloma, we have known about that, especially from our historical knowledge of second malignancies with lenalidomide-based maintenance therapy post-transplant. So subsequent malignancies have always been a risk. There is some risk that is being talked about with CAR T, but frankly speaking, the way I look at it, the risk is significantly lesser than the potential benefit.

Because remember when these CAR T therapies, the two agents got approved in myeloma, they were approved in a situation that there was no standard therapy. And we saw somewhere about 70, 75 percent response rate with one of them and about 98 percent response rate with the other one. So in a setting where there was nothing, you can see the degree of benefit. And the risk of second malignancies is relatively small. So we must discuss this.

A patient must be aware of it, but I think the benefit is way more than the risk. So we document, we discuss, we have specific documentation that we do and specific information that we share with patients, but I think still the benefit is significantly more than the risk.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great. Thank you so much for explaining that. And for any of you out there watching this, Dr. Ailawadhi is a myeloma specialist, and I highly encourage anybody who is looking at CAR T therapy or even for a first consult for myeloma, seek out even one consult from a myeloma specialist. It is so important in trying to understand these therapies and any fears you may have regarding those therapies and the risks of that. So really appreciate that, Dr. Ailawadhi. Thank you. So I think it’s time now to start answering questions from patients that we received from all of you in the audience.

Please remember, this is not a substitute for medical care. Always consult with your medical team. And we are going to jump right in, Dr. Ailawadhi. We have a lot of questions from patients here and I’ll just start with the first one. This patient is asking, my M spike keeps rising in spite of chemo. What can I do?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Very important question, Lisa. Every patient must understand what their disease marker is. This patient is asking about the M spike, which is the monoclonal spike, whether it’s in the blood or in the urine. And if the M spike is continuing to increase and there is a significant increase, significant is defined by at least 25 percent from the nadir or from the bottom most point with the, at least a absolute increase of 0.5 gram per deciliter. So half a gram per deciliter. So we want a 25 percent increase, but we also want at least 0.5 gram per deciliter.

So if somebody had an M spike of one at their best point, then the increase to 1.5 is significant. If somebody had the M spike of 0.2, then it’s not the 25 percent increase, it’s the 0.5 that must happen. So they hit 0.7 and that’s a significant increase. So that’s how we think about M spike, 25 percent with an absolute of at least 0.5 gram per deciliter.

If that is indeed happening, this would be considered a biochemical progression. And at that point, it should be considered to switch around the treatment because we don’t want the disease to grow to the point that there are actually symptoms showing up or organ damage happening. We want to be able to capture the disease progression sooner and act upon it.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great, thank you. Do you have any recommendations for people who, as we might have some patients watching this, who are light chain only? Any guidelines on if those numbers are rising?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

That’s an excellent question too. So if somebody has light chains as their marker, we are looking at an increase in the involved serum free light chain. So if somebody has kappa as their marker, the kappa is going up, or if they have lambda as the marker, the lambda is going up. Typically, if both of them go up, that is not disease progression. That could be coming from kidney dysfunction. Somebody is dehydrated and they get labs checked. Both kappa and lambda might be elevated. Again, a 25 percent increase in the absolute. But at the same time, we are also looking at at least 10 milligram per deciliter change.

So if somebody had a light chain of two milligram per deciliter, if it goes to 12, that might be a significant change. But I can say that light chains are a little bit more volatile and they do get affected by our fluid status. So if I ever notice a patient with a light chain increase, I’m more likely to repeat the test very soon, maybe even at a couple of days, one week interval, just to make sure that there is a trend rather than just a fluctuating light chain.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you for that information.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

And I should maybe, very quickly add, we do not check light chains in the urine. Light chains should be checked in the blood. Urine light chains are very nonspecific and there’s no need to test them.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. That’s helpful also. So patients don’t have to walk around with their big orange jugs full of fluids. So thank you. All right. This might be a complicated question to answer. But in general terms, for those who relapse for the first time, what are the best treatment options?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

I think that’s a very important, and I can imagine a scary situation. So somebody who relapses in general, not just even the first time, the factors that are taken into account for deciding what treatment they should get, there are broadly three categories of factors. Patient factors deciding what’s the age, what’s the other comorbidities, are they diabetic, are they heart disease, kidney dysfunction, because those things go into the decision of what may or may not be given. So patient factors.

Also importantly, how close are you to your treatment center? Can you come in for infusion or injection drugs time? And again, can you prefer or do you prefer oral drugs only? Et cetera. Those things become important. Then that…so that’s patient factors and disease factors. How fast is the progression? Is it high-risk disease, standard risk disease? Is it biochemical progression like the previous person asked?

Or is it actually a clinical progression in which there’s kidney dysfunction or anemia or bone disease? Because the choices and the urgency of treatment may change. So patient factors, disease factors, and then drug factors are the third class or third category, which is what have you had before? How long have you been on it? Are you on maintenance or not? Is your disease considered refractory to a certain agent, meaning resistant to a certain agent? Typically, if you were on a treatment and your disease is progressing, that same drug may not be used again.

And there are some times that we will reuse a drug, but generally not. We can use the same class, but we may not typically use the same drug. So I think the choice of treatment depends on all of those factors put in. And then we come up with one or two or three regimens and we discuss them with patients. And, of course, being an academic, physician, I must say there is always, you must always seek out good clinical trials if they’re available to you. That is the way our field moves forward.

Lisa Hatfield:

Yes, thank you for that information. So we have another patient asking, “Do myeloma patients require multiple prior therapies prior to being eligible for CAR T?” And what’s the rationale for not implementing CAR T immediately, which probably has to do with FDA approval based on clinical trials at this point?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely. You’re absolutely right, Lisa. So any drug, let alone CAR T, any drug can only be given in the situation that it is approved by the FDA. So basically in accordance with that drug’s FDA approval label. Currently, CAR T-cell therapy is approved in the U.S. after at least four prior lines of therapy. And the patient must have had treatment with at least one proteasome inhibitor,  for which we have three drugs, bortezomib (Velcade), ixazomib (Ninlaro), and carfilzomib. They must have been treated with at least one prior immunomodulatory drug; lenalidomide, thalidomide (Thalomid), pomalidomide. And they must have been previously treated by at least one monoclonal antibody, daratumumab (Darzalex) or Isatuximab (Sarclisa).

Once the patient has had all these criteria met, they’ve become a candidate for CAR T-cell therapy. Frankly, we cannot just use a drug anywhere because we cannot use a drug where it has not shown to be of benefit. And importantly, it has not shown to be of any risk. So CAR T-cell therapy in the first line setting is being studied in clinical trials, but is not FDA-approved. Currently approved only after four prior lines, but the FDA is reviewing data for both the CAR T’s to see if they may be available sooner. As of right now, that approval is still pending.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. We’re hopeful that that will happen soon.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Hopeful.

Lisa Hatfield:

Yeah. So interesting question from a patient, “Does CAR-T therapy actually change one’s DNA?”

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

No. The CAR T therapy does not change one’s DNA. What happens is, there are T cells taken out of a patient. The DNA of those T cells is modified and then those T cells are given back to the patient. Those T cells do not go and integrate into your other healthy body cells or your stem cells, et cetera. Those T cells, it’s almost like giving a boost of immunity, which is targeted against your myeloma. So those T cells go in and they fill those myeloma cells. Now we hope that those T cells perpetuate and teach or create some memory T cells and that immunity lasts a little bit longer. But all of that genetic modification stays within the T cells. It does not integrate anywhere else.

Now, I know there was a previous question about T-cell lymphomas, that is related to this question in a way because the risk that is theoretical is, that that genetic modification in the T cells might make those T cells replicate uncontrollably leading to a T-cell cancer or T-cell lymphoma. But I’m saying that this is theoretical because while it is possible, it happens extremely rarely and even in the cases where the cancer happened, it has been seen that the cancer may not come from that portion of the DNA that was…that’s where the modification was done. So, low risk.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you very much for that.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. So what would be the next steps, Dr. Ailawadhi for a patient who’s had CAR T and reaches a relapse state or is relapsed?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Yep. This is something, unfortunately is the truth of the matter in myeloma at least that we are, we don’t seek cures. We have had some long remissions. I have, for example, patients who are now reaching three, three-and-a-half years of remission on CAR T treatment who received it on clinical trials even before they got FDA-approved.

But, unfortunately, the disease does come back. So what happens is, we are seeing data that the novel, other novel immunotherapies like bispecific antibodies, even the ones who go after the same target as CAR T, BCMA targeting bispecifics, they do have some response rates, good response rates in post CAR T setting. So the bispecific antibodies by themselves may give us 60 to 65 percent response, but in the post CAR T setting, that response might go down to 40, 45 percent. So less responses, but still possible.

There are also bispecific antibody. There is one available, which is not against BCMA, it is against GPRC5D. That’s a bispecific called talquetamab-tgvs (Talvey). So a novel target. There is…there are of course a lot of clinical trials. There are some clinical trials that are even looking at CAR T post-CAR T. So different kind of a CAR T. Those clinical trials are going out. So what I would suggest is that if your disease progresses after CAR T-cell treatment, you should very strongly consider getting to a specialist myeloma center and get an opinion like you mentioned, Lisa.

That is so important because the choice of treatment is extremely important at that time. And we are trying our best to sequence all the options we have, in a way, actually one of my patients mentioned, one of these days, Hey, does that mean that I’m basically buying time till something new and exciting comes along? And I said in a way that is true. That we are trying to stretch all our treatments and get to the point that something new and promising just like CAR T comes, and hopefully we get longer benefits again.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you for that. So when you say there’s a possibility of CAR T and then a post-CAR T maybe a second CAR T. Would that be a different target then?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

So there could be a different target. I have, in fact, just yesterday I saw a patient who had received one CAR T in a clinical trial and then they were subsequently able to receive a CAR T standard of care, which had been FDA approved. So they used different CAR Ts, but one was in clinical trials and one was standard of care.

Lisa Hatfield:

Oh, great. Okay. Again, important to see a myeloma specialist to tease out all this information. Thank you. All right. This patient is asking, “I’m 81 and living with comorbidities. The myeloma was diagnosed after bone marrow test. How is treatment fitness determined?” And also a question about that is if you’re given an ECOG status of something you don’t like it, can that be improved after you’ve had treatment?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely.

Lisa Hatfield:

Maybe be eligible for a trial or something.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Correct. Correct. That is so important. When this patient mentioned that they’re 81-year-old and they’re living with comorbidities, I think, so when I’m talking to a patient who’s new to me, it’s very important for me to try to tease out what was their performance status or their fitness status prior to myeloma. Because my goal is to try to get them as close to that as possible. Now if this patient is saying that they were already quite frail before the diagnosis of myeloma and myeloma is added to the frailty, then it becomes a little tricky because we’re starting in a difficult spot. We do determine fitness by asking questions, simple questions like, what can a patient do at baseline? Can they do grocery store or grocery shopping by themselves? Can they walk around the block? Do they get short of breath? Et cetera.

And frankly, there are 81-year-olds who are playing golf every day and are fitter than me. So I’m just saying that age by itself is not the criteria. And, Lisa, like you rightly mentioned, if there are fitness issues coming from the disease itself, then that’s the time that we actually have to work with the treatment, get the treatment started, and then assess the fitness a couple of months later, a couple of cycles later. Because the treatment may have worked and may have improved the fitness quite a bit.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great thank you for that. So this person is asking, their husband is starting maintenance therapy, so I am assuming they just finished induction therapy, having leg pains mostly at night. Could this be a form of peripheral neuropathy or is maybe from bisphosphonates or from any of the medications that maybe were used during induction?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

So, excellent question. So, this is almost going back to that survivorship question that we discussed earlier, that it’s so important to manage the side effects and maintain quality of life. So, a lot of patients with myeloma will say that I have cramping or symptoms or some pins and needles at night more so. Part of it is because body’s at rest, relaxed, things, symptoms become more focused. Yes, it could be peripheral neuropathy, but at the same time certain drugs caused muscle cramping or what’s called myalgias, sometimes maintenance therapies can cause that.

It’s important for somebody to be able to determine is it coming from muscles or nerves? Is it coming because some electrolytes are abnormal. Like one of the common things is low magnesium or low potassium can cause neuropathy, for example, or cramping. I’ve had patients who will get some over-the-counter lotions or some forms et cetera, which are infused with some electrolytes and say that they feel some benefit. So topical things are good. So I think it’s important to figure out is it muscle or nerve and is it coming from drugs or disease? And that’s where your physician can help tease it out.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. So we have a patient who is talking about her genetic abnormalities, but has been through both auto and allo stem cell transplant in the last two years and has relapsed. And is asking, “Can CAR T-cell therapy help me?” And would she even be eligible for CAR T therapy given the allotransplant?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

That’s an important question. So first of all, sorry to hear that, that your disease is behaving that aggressively, that you’ve had both the transplants in the past two years and still having issues. So yes, CAR T can still be used after an allotransplant. There are some criteria. You should not be on any graft versus host suppressive medications, and you should not have any active graft versus host disease going on. So depending on those, yes patients can get CAR T post. And, in fact, I’ve had a couple of patients who’ve had CAR T after allotransplant.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great, thank you. I’m sure that’ll give this patient some hope. Are there any studies showing that treatment can be tapered? Tapered to by daily, once 90 percent reduction in myeloma has occurred with various therapies. So in general, you may know what medication this patient’s talking about, but is that possible to do that, to taper therapy?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

So, absolutely, first of all, in myeloma care, Lisa, you had mentioned initially that as somebody went to maintenance, they have had induction. So there are these terms used for categories of treatment, induction, consolidation, maintenance. But if the disease gets controlled adequately at a certain time point, the treatment can be modified to a maintenance. It depends on the regimen.

Some regimens, for example, we are able to get rid of the steroids after a certain time and then in certain regimens the drugs can be reduced in dose or frequency, et cetera. All of the drugs we use have maintenance regimens and maintenance doses. But I should put a word of caution there. I see very frequently that the moment the labs improve, this quote unquote “maintenance” is brought in.

That’s not the right way to do things. The right way is to go back to the clinical trial based on which this regimen was started. And according to that clinical trial, after however many cycles of treatment the maintenance was supposed to happen, it should happen. So if I’ll very quickly say if somebody stays, starts on a regimen and within four months their M spike comes down, and now it has plateaued. Because our drugs are so good that they work that fast. And somebody says, “Okay, four months of that is enough, let’s save it for the future. Let’s go to maintenance.” I would say, “Absolutely not.”

In fact, there is data suggested from a couple of regimens that if significant modifications were made prior to one year of the regimen, then the outcomes were inferior. And I’m not going in specific regimens and I’m not saying that that is applicable to everything, but what I’m saying is, yes, maintenance and tapering is possible. In fact, there are clinical trials looking at even stopping medication. But when and how that change is to be made is very very important. It’s critical. If your physician is not comfortable about that time point, reach out to a myeloma specialist. They should be able to guide when and how to reduce or taper or put on maintenance.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. And that’s very important what you said about induction therapy. Go back to the clinical trial and look and see what the clinical trial said as far as how long that treatment should last because it is exciting as a patient when you start seeing those numbers dropping exponentially. They’re just plummeting, and you want to go off it, you don’t feel great. It’s hard to stay on a therapy for 6 to 12 months that you don’t really enjoy and nobody really does. So that’s important. And then maybe talk about maintenance therapy later. It would be nice to have limited duration maintenance, sometime in the future for induction therapy. Stick with what the clinical trial says. So, okay, this patient is asking another really important question, “I have myeloma and now my daughter does as well. She’s 37, is multiple myeloma hereditary?”

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

I’m sorry to hear about this situation and I’m so sorry that your daughter who’s 37 got diagnosed. There is a small, very small number of very young patients and I’m saying using this term very young, which is just a generic thing that I’ve said because myeloma median age of diagnosis 68. I saw a patient who was diagnosed at 33 and they’re 40 now and they’ve already gone through every single thing that they can think of. And we were talking about clinical trials. So, typically myeloma is not hereditary. It is not something that is passed along through the generations. But what I would say is that there is, if this sort of a situation is happening that you have myeloma and now your daughter has it at a young age, it is important for you to consider getting genetic counseling.

So a genetic counsel for them to be able to look deeper into it. There is not a very standard specific test, so for me to say, Hey, you go and get this genetic test done and that’ll find out this mutation, whatever. But it’s important to get, go through some genetic counseling for them to be able to look a little bit deeper, some next-generation sequencing, what is called germline testing or somatic testing. They should be able to compare both the parent and the daughter’s disease as well as what’s called germline, which is their native DNA, which they were born with, to see if there is anything that jumps out of that. But that would be important to go through at a larger cancer center or if that service is available through your local physician also. That would be great.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great, thank you. Well, I think that’s it for our questions. That’s all that we have time for. But Dr. Ailawadhi, thank you so much for once again, being part of our Patient Empowerment Network START HERE Program. Because it really is these kinds of conversations that help patients, me included, feel more empowered to take questions back to our providers and our healthcare team. So thank you so much for joining us and thank you out there to everybody who’s watching this program, we appreciate you and we appreciate your time and expertise.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Thanks and I look forward to the next time.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. I’m Lisa Hatfield. Thank you for joining this Patient Empowerment Network Program and we look forward to seeing you again soon.

How is Treatment Fitness Determined in Multiple Myeloma?

/in , , , , , , , /by

How is Treatment Fitness Determined in Multiple Myeloma? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How is treatment suitability assessed in myeloma care? Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi, an expert from Mayo Clinic, elaborates on the factors taken into account when determining the appropriateness of treatment for myeloma patients.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

What Factors Shape Myeloma Treatment Options After Relapse?

 Myeloma Treatment Timing: Prior Therapies and FDA Approval Rationale

 Navigating Myeloma CAR T-Cell Relapse: Patient Next Steps

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Oh, great. Okay. Again, important to see a myeloma specialist to tease out all this information. Thank you. All right. This patient is asking, “I’m 81 and living with comorbidities. The myeloma was diagnosed after bone marrow test. How is treatment fitness determined?” And also a question about that is if you’re given an ECOG status of something you don’t like it, can that be improved after you’ve had treatment?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely.

Lisa Hatfield:

Maybe be eligible for a trial or something.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Correct. Correct. That is so important. When this patient mentioned that they’re 81-year-old and they’re living with comorbidities, I think, so when I’m talking to a patient who’s new to me, it’s very important for me to try to tease out what was their performance status or their fitness status prior to myeloma. Because my goal is to try to get them as close to that as possible.

Now if this patient is saying that they were already quite frail before the diagnosis of myeloma and myeloma is added to the frailty, then it becomes a little tricky because we’re starting in a difficult spot. We do determine fitness by asking questions, simple questions like, what can a patient do at baseline? Can they do grocery store or grocery shopping by themselves? Can they walk around the block? Do they get short of breath? Et cetera.

And frankly, there are 81-year-olds who are playing golf every day and are fitter than me. So I’m just saying that age by itself is not the criteria. And, Lisa, like you rightly mentioned, if there are fitness issues coming from the disease itself, then that’s the time that we actually have to work with the treatment, get the treatment started, and then assess the fitness a couple of months later, a couple of cycles later. Because the treatment may have worked and may have improved the fitness quite a bit.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

Navigating Myeloma CAR T-Cell Relapse: Patient Next Steps

/in , , , , , , , /by

Navigating Myeloma CAR T-Cell Relapse: Patient Next Steps from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are next steps for myeloma CAR T-cell patients who experience relapse? Expert Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic explains options for relapsed myeloma patients and shares patient advice.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

What Factors Shape Myeloma Treatment Options After Relapse?

 Myeloma Treatment Timing: Prior Therapies and FDA Approval Rationale

 How is Treatment Fitness Determined in Multiple Myeloma?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. So what would be the next steps, Dr. Ailawadhi, for a patient who’s had CAR T and reaches a relapse state or is relapsed?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Yep. This is something, unfortunately is the truth of the matter in myeloma at least that we are, we don’t seek cures. We have had some long remissions. I have, for example, patients who are now reaching three, three-and-a-half years of remission on CAR T treatment who received it on clinical trials even before they got FDA-approved.

But, unfortunately, the disease does come back. So what happens is, we are seeing data that the novel, other novel immunotherapies like bispecific antibodies, even the ones who go after the same target as CAR T, BCMA targeting bispecifics, they do have some response rates, good response rates in post CAR T setting. So the bispecific antibodies by themselves may give us 60 to 65 percent response, but in the post CAR T setting, that response might go down to 40, 45 percent. So less responses, but still possible.

There are also bispecific antibodies. There is one available, which is not against BCMA, it is against GPRC5D. That’s a bispecific called talquetamab-tgvs (Talvey). So a novel target. There is…there are of course a lot of clinical trials. There are some clinical trials that are even looking at CAR T post-CAR T. So different kind of a CAR T. Those clinical trials are going out. So what I would suggest is that if your disease progresses after CAR T-cell treatment, you should very strongly consider getting to a specialist myeloma center and get an opinion like you mentioned, Lisa.

That is so important because the choice of treatment is extremely important at that time. And we are trying our best to sequence all the options we have, in a way, actually one of my patients mentioned, one of these days, ”Hey, does that mean that I’m basically buying time till something new and exciting comes along?” And I said, “In a way that is true. That we are trying to stretch all our treatments and get to the point that something new and promising just like CAR T comes, and hopefully we get longer benefits again.”

Lisa Hatfield:

So when you say there’s a possibility of CAR T and then a post-CAR T maybe a second CAR T. Would that be a different target then?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

So there could be a different target. I have, in fact, I saw a patient who had received one CAR T in a clinical trial and then they were subsequently able to receive a CAR T standard of care, which had been FDA-approved. So they used different CAR Ts, but one was in clinical trials and one was standard of care.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

Myeloma Treatment Timing: Prior Therapies and FDA Approval Rationale

/in , , , , , , , /by

Myeloma Treatment Timing: Prior Therapies and FDA Approval Rationale from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What concerns do myeloma patients need to know about CAR T-cell therapy? Expert Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic explains patient qualification for CAR T-cell therapy, including the number and type of prior therapies.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

What Factors Shape Myeloma Treatment Options After Relapse?

 Navigating Myeloma CAR T-Cell Relapse: Patient Next Steps

 How is Treatment Fitness Determined in Multiple Myeloma?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So we have another patient asking, “Do myeloma patients require multiple prior therapies prior to being eligible for CAR T?” And what’s the rationale for not implementing CAR T immediately, which probably has to do with FDA approval based on clinical trials at this point?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

So any drug, let alone CAR T, any drug can only be given in the situation that it is approved by the FDA. So basically in accordance with that drug’s FDA approval label. Currently, CAR T-cell therapy is approved in the U.S. after at least four prior lines of therapy. And the patient must have had treatment with at least one proteasome inhibitor, for which we have three drugs, bortezomib (Velcade), ixazomib (Ninlaro), and carfilzomib. They must have been treated with at least one prior immunomodulatory drug; lenalidomide (Revlimid), thalidomide (Thalomid), pomalidomide.

And they must have been previously treated by at least one monoclonal antibody, daratumumab (Darzalex) or Isatuximab (Sarclisa). Once the patient has had all these criteria met, they’ve become a candidate for CAR T-cell therapy. Frankly, we cannot just use a drug anywhere because we cannot use a drug where it has not shown to be of benefit. And importantly, it has not shown to be of any risk. So CAR T-cell therapy in the first line setting is being studied in clinical trials, but is not FDA-approved. Currently approved only after four prior lines, but the FDA is reviewing data for both the CAR Ts to see if they may be available sooner. As of right now, that approval is still pending.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. We’re hopeful that that will happen soon.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Hopeful.

Lisa Hatfield:

Yeah. So an interesting question from a patient, “Does CAR-T therapy actually change one’s DNA?”

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

No. The CAR T therapy does not change one’s DNA. What happens is, there are T cells taken out of a patient. The DNA of those T cells is modified and then those T cells are given back to the patient. Those T cells do not go and integrate into your other healthy body cells or your stem cells, et cetera. Those T cells, it’s almost like giving a boost of immunity, which is targeted against your myeloma. So those T cells go in and they fill those myeloma cells.

Now we hope that those T cells perpetuate and teach or create some memory T cells and that immunity lasts a little bit longer. But all of that genetic modification stays within the T cells. It does not integrate anywhere else. Now, I know there was a previous question about T-cell lymphomas, that is related to this question in a way because the risk that is theoretical is, that that genetic modification in the T cells might make those T cells replicate uncontrollably leading to a T-cell cancer or T-cell lymphoma. But I’m saying that this is theoretical because while it is possible, it happens extremely rarely and even in the cases where the cancer happened, it has  been seen that the cancer may not come from that portion of the DNA that was…that’s where the modification was done. So, low risk.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

What Factors Shape Myeloma Treatment Options After Relapse?

/in , , , , , , , /by

What Factors Shape Myeloma Treatment Options After Relapse? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What myeloma treatment options are there for patients who relapse? Expert Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic explains patient factors that must be considered in treatment options and how treatment options may be impacted.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

Myeloma Treatment Timing: Prior Therapies and FDA Approval Rationale

 Navigating Myeloma CAR T-Cell Relapse: Patient Next Steps

 How is Treatment Fitness Determined in Multiple Myeloma?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

For those who relapse for the first time, what are the best treatment options?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

I think that’s a very important, and I can imagine a scary situation. So somebody who relapses in general, not just even the first time, the factors that are taken into account for deciding what treatment they should get, there are broadly three categories of factors. Patient factors deciding what’s the age, what’s the other comorbidities, are they diabetic, are they heart disease, kidney dysfunction, because those things go into the decision of what may or may not be given. So patient factors.

Also importantly, how close are you to your treatment center? Can you come in for infusional or injection drugs time? And again, can you prefer or do you prefer oral drugs only? Et cetera. Those things become important. Then that…so that’s patient factors and disease factors. How fast is the progression? Is it high-risk disease, standard risk disease? Is it biochemical progression like the previous person asked?

Or is it actually a clinical progression in which there’s kidney dysfunction or anemia or bone disease? Because the choices and the urgency of treatment may change. So patient factors, disease factors, and then drug factors are the third class or third category, which is what have you had before? How long have you been on it? Are you on maintenance or not? Is your disease considered refractory to a certain agent, meaning resistant to a certain agent?

Typically, if you were on a treatment and your disease is progressing, that same drug may not be used again. And there are some times that we will reuse a drug, but generally not. We can use the same class, but we may not typically use the same drug. So I think the choice of treatment depends on all of those factors put in. And then we come up with one or two or three regimens and we discuss them with patients. And, of course, being an academic, physician, I must say there is always, you must always seek out good clinical trials if they’re available to you. That is the way our field moves forward.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

What Are Guidelines for Rising Myeloma Marker Levels?

/in , , , , , , , /by

What Are Guidelines for Rising Myeloma Marker Levels? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are multiple myeloma guidelines for marker levels? Expert Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic discusses marker levels that are checked and levels that could be concerning for disease progression.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

Navigating Priorities in the Expanding Myeloma Treatment Landscape

 How Are Myeloma Survivorship and Treatment Planning Evolving?

 Is There a Link Between CAR-T Therapy and T-Cell Malignancies?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

This patient is asking, “My M spike keeps rising in spite of chemo. What can I do?”

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Very important question, Lisa. Every patient must understand what their disease marker is. This patient is asking about the M spike, which is the monoclonal spike, whether it’s in the blood or in the urine. And if the M spike is continuing to increase and there is a significant increase, significant is defined by at least 25 percent from the nadir or from the bottom most point with the, at least an absolute increase of 0.5 gram per deciliter. So half a gram per deciliter. So we want a 25 percent increase, but we also want at least 0.5 gram per deciliter.

So if somebody had an M spike of one at their best point, then the increase to 1.5 is significant. If somebody had the M spike of 0.2, then it’s not the 25 percent increase, it’s the 0.5 that must happen. So they hit 0.7 and that’s a significant increase. So that’s how we think about M spike, 25 percent with an absolute of at least 0.5 gram per deciliter.

If that is indeed happening, this would be considered a biochemical progression. And at that point, it should be considered to switch around the treatment because we don’t want the disease to grow to the point that there are actually symptoms showing up or organ damage happening. We want to be able to capture the disease progression sooner and act upon it.

Lisa Hatfield:

Do you have any recommendations for people who, as we might have some patients watching this, who are light chain only? Any guidelines on if those numbers are rising?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

That’s an excellent question too. So if somebody has light chains as their marker, we are looking at an increase in the involved serum free light chain. So if somebody has kappa as their marker, the kappa is going up, or if they have lambda as the marker, the lambda is going up. Typically, if both of them go up, that is not disease progression. That could be coming from kidney dysfunction. Somebody is dehydrated and they get labs checked. Both kappa and lambda might be elevated. Again, a 25 percent increase in the absolute. But at the same time, we are also looking at at least 10 milligram per deciliter change. So if somebody had a light chain of two milligram per deciliter, if it goes to 12, that might be a significant change. But I can say that light chains are a little bit more volatile and they do get affected by our fluid status. So if I ever notice a patient with a light chain increase, I’m more likely to repeat the test very soon, maybe even at a couple of days, one week interval, just to make sure that there is a trend rather than just a fluctuating light chain.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you for that information.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

And I should maybe, very quickly add, we do not check light chains in the urine. Light chains should be checked in the blood. Urine light chains are very nonspecific, and there’s no need to test them.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

Is There a Link Between CAR-T Therapy and T-Cell Malignancies?

/in , , , , , , , /by

Is There a Link Between CAR-T Therapy and T-Cell Malignancies? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What should myeloma patients know about CAR T and T-cell malignancies? Expert Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic discusses the benefits versus risks for myeloma patients who undergo CAR T-cell therapy.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

Navigating Priorities in the Expanding Myeloma Treatment Landscape

 How Are Myeloma Survivorship and Treatment Planning Evolving?

 What Are Guidelines for Rising Myeloma Marker Levels?

What Are Guidelines for Rising Myeloma Marker Levels?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

There have been some discussions about post-CAR T, particularly with T-cell malignancies and monitoring for that. Can you just give a little description of that and any concerns that you have with that or any encouragement you have regarding that and whether that weighs into your treatment options that you give to patients when they are asking about CAR T therapy?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely. Extremely important question, Lisa. This really had a lot of discussion going on. It’s been going on for the past few months now. Okay. So first let’s explain the landscape. The FDA reviewed CAR T-cell treatment because of the fact that there were about 19 T-cell malignancies noted in several thousand patients.

Out of those 19 cases of T-cell malignancies, there was one case of multiple myeloma to the best of my knowledge. Now, risk of subsequent cancers is something, unfortunately, every cancer patient lives with, but in myeloma, we have known about that, especially from our historical knowledge of second malignancies with lenalidomide-based (Revlimid) maintenance therapy post-transplant. So subsequent malignancies have always been a risk.

There is some risk that is being talked about with CAR T, but frankly speaking, the way I look at it, the risk is significantly lesser than the potential benefit. Because remember when these CAR T therapies, the two agents got approved in myeloma, they were approved in a situation that there was no standard therapy. And we saw somewhere about 70, 75 percent response rate with one of them and about 98 percent response rate with the other one. So in a setting where there was nothing, you can see the degree of benefit. And the risk of second malignancies is relatively small. So we must discuss this.

A patient must be aware of it, but I think the benefit is way more than the risk. So we document, we discuss, we have specific documentation that we do and specific information that we share with patients, but I think still the benefit is significantly more than the risk.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

How Are Myeloma Survivorship and Treatment Planning Evolving?

/in , , , , , , , /by

How Are Myeloma Survivorship and Treatment Planning Evolving? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How have myeloma treatment planning and survivorship evolved? Expert Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic discusses how patient outlooks have changed and the impact to patient treatment options and doctor-patient communication.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

Navigating Priorities in the Expanding Myeloma Treatment Landscape

 Is There a Link Between CAR-T Therapy and T-Cell Malignancies?

 What Are Guidelines for Rising Myeloma Marker Levels?

What Are Guidelines for Rising Myeloma Marker Levels?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

So how is myeloma survivorship evolving, and what’s different now than it was five or 10 years ago in terms of treatment planning?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Yeah, I think it’s very important to keep that in mind. When I see a newly diagnosed patient, I’m not just telling them, “Hey, this is your induction therapy, and your transplant is the goal.’ We’re trying our best to decide that patient’s life journey with myeloma over the next 10, 15 and hopefully more years. So we’re trying to pick and choose the regimen that is most likely going to help the patient the most today and most likely will give a longer duration of the response.

So when you say survivorship, that also very importantly brings up the point that patients are living with myeloma longer. We have to manage their health overall. So looking for any side effects from treatment, managing them very well so the patient is able to stay on the treatment and maintain good quality of life.

There are actually, clinical trials looking at stopping treatment when there is a very deep, prolonged response. Again, going towards survivorship and giving the patient’s quality of life. There is looking for other cancers. In fact, I had a patient in the clinic and we were talking about just myeloma in general and I was telling them, “Okay, please remember you may not want to do a colonoscopy, but you already have one myeloma cancer diagnosis.

The risk of subsequent cancers is always there in any cancer patient.” So that was a male person. So I said, “Okay, please do not miss your colonoscopy. Please do not miss your prostate screening and whatever is age-appropriate must be done.” So managing everything because myeloma is not a sprint, it’s a marathon.

We want to make sure that we pace ourselves well so we manage all the symptoms, all the signs. Bone health becomes much, much more important because the same bone structure is now going to carry us longer and many more years. And as you rightly said, planning, which treatment comes first, which comes next, when does CAR T come? It’s not that everybody must get CAR T today. That’s not the answer. So what to use when becomes extremely more important.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

Navigating Priorities in the Expanding Myeloma Treatment Landscape

/in , , , , , , , /by

Navigating Priorities in the Expanding Myeloma Treatment Landscape from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What should myeloma patients know about the latest treatments and monitoring? Expert Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic shares updates about new research and treatments as well as new tools for monitoring myeloma progression and relapse.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

How Are Myeloma Survivorship and Treatment Planning Evolving?

 Is There a Link Between CAR-T Therapy and T-Cell Malignancies?

 What Are Guidelines for Rising Myeloma Marker Levels?

What Are Guidelines for Rising Myeloma Marker Levels?

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Dr. Ailawadhi, can you speak to the latest news and priorities in the rapidly expanding myeloma treatment landscape?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

I think, Lisa, that’s an excellent and important question. Because as you rightly mentioned, there is such a large amount of data that is coming through for myeloma all the time. I mean, it’s almost, we kind of talk about the fact that every time you turn your shoulder or look over your shoulder, there is a new drug approved. So I can imagine this can be very overwhelming. So what I’ll say is that in my opinion, there are some categories of new data that are pertinent and important for our patients.

The two or three out of them that come to my mind, one is what’s called CELMoDs, or there are a couple of agents there called iberdomide, mezigdomide. These are showing some interesting data. Important to keep in mind that they are somewhat related to the immunomodulatory drugs lenalidomide (Revlimid), pomalidomide (Pomalyst), but they’re showing benefit in patients who have had len and pom before and have progressed. So exciting stuff there.

We’re also seeing some interesting data about newer CAR Ts and bispecific antibodies. They are all coming up with some benefits in some cases. I think it’s important to keep in mind that the bispecifics are landing at the 60 to 70 percent response rate, and CAR Ts are typically landing at the 80 to 90 percent response rate, but there are more agents expected.

There are also some newer bispecifics in different classes, like one of them is called cevostamab, which is an FcRH5 inhibitor or targeting bispecific. So newer bispecific, not just more of the same category. And there has also been recent data about Bcl-2 inhibitors, which have been traditionally used for patients with translocation 11;14.

There have been some negative data, negative as in trials, which did not pan out with a drug called venetoclax (Venclexta), but there are two other drugs that had some recent data shown from different companies, which were exciting information. So in my mind, those are kind of the broad new drug categories. There is another, a couple of other quick things that I’ll mention.

One is we’re getting more and more information about real world experience with these new drugs. It’s good to see that CAR Ts are panning out very similar in the real world as they are in clinical trials. We’re also seeing that the side effect profile of a lot of these newer novel immunotherapy drugs is similar as seen in the clinical trials.

Racial ethnic disparities are something which are very close to my heart, and there is more and more information coming out in that. Unfortunately, highlighting the disparities more still rather than yet coming up with solutions. And I think the last thing that I feel which has been recent has been at the American Society of Hematology meeting in 2023, which was in December in San Diego. One of the myeloma studies actually became a plenary session presentation, which is a pretty big deal for any disease area. So one thing is that it gets highlighted. Secondly, it was a combination of a regimen called isatuximab-irfc (Sarclisa) with carfilzomib (Kyprolis), lenalidomide, and dexamethasone (Decadron) in newly diagnosed patients.

It’s a randomized trial, Phase III, which was presented. I think the important part is we saw unprecedented deep responses and patients in much, much higher numbers than before becoming MRD-negative. So very deep responses. So these are kind of some very broad, but lots of highlights that I talked about.

Lisa Hatfield:

So can you also talk about some of the newer tools for myeloma progression and relapse and what patients might want to know about that? And in particular, maybe talk a bit about MRD testing and the role of MRD testing for patients who relapse.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Excellent question. Lisa, I think the first and foremost thing an important part for our patients to learn is what are their “tumor markers,” for the, or disease markers for myeloma. We can follow myeloma by either the M spike or monoclonal protein, by light chains, by monoclonal protein in the urine or blood. And it’s important to keep that in mind because every now and then we’ll see patients who say, Hey, my ratio changed. So I’m progressing. Well, that comes after the light chains change. So it’s important to understand the role of these things. So M spike in the urine, M spike in the serum and light chains. One of them is typically the marker for a patient.

Now the MRD status or minimal residual disease that is looking for one cell, one myeloma cell from amongst 100,000 cells in the bone marrow. So it is looking at a very deep level. The most important benefit of MRD testing right now is to understand that if a patient turns MRD negative, then they have a superior outcome. Their prognosis is better. Their progression free survival, or the time before their disease comes back is longer. 

But when a patient is MRD-negative and is being followed or maintenance or whatever, if the bone marrow turns MRD-positive, then that might be the sign that the disease might be coming back. Right now, we do not keep switching drugs to get to MRD-negative. That is not the goal of treatment. The way to think about it is we want to get to MRD-negative, but that means it’s incumbent upon us to try and pick a regimen that is more likely to get to MRD-negative. That’s the way to think about it.

Let’s pick a regimen more likely to get us into MRD-negative and hope that we get to MRD-negative. We see every now and then that the patients keep switching regimens just to get to MRD-negative. That’s not the way to go because you’re just using up options too quickly, too fast. A common question that patients ask is, well, does that mean I need to get annual bone marrow biopsies and MRD testing? Probably not.

That’s too much testing. So what I suggest is that once somebody has turned MRD-negative, it’s important to keep an eye on every single thing. Now, change in any of the routine labs, imaging, new symptoms, etcetera. That’s when we switch to the bone marrow again and see if the patient has turned MRD-positive. There are clinical trials going on right now which are stopping drugs based on repeat MRD negativity or starting drugs on MRD positivity. But those are clinical trial questions.

Lisa Hatfield:

So along those same lines, since you’re a Mayo physician, I’m curious about the mass spec testing. So if a patient say has been MRD-negative for some time, still wants to monitor at a deeper level, even though it’s not commercialized yet, do you see a role for mass spec testing on a regular basis in the future and being rolled out to community facilities also?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely, Lisa. I did not specifically bring it up because mass spec is not, like you rightly said, is not yet commercially available. Now we’re doing mass spec quite frequently at Mayo Clinic. Basically mass spec is taking up a blood sample. Important to keep in mind, it’s not a bone marrow test, it’s a blood test, but it looks for those abnormal proteins based on the protein weight at a much, much lower level. Our SPEP or serum protein electrophoresis does not pick up very small quantities of the protein mass spec does. So in an essence, the mass spec, if somebody is negative on that, turning mass spec negative to mass spec positive may be an earlier sign of the disease coming back rather than the SPEP yet turning positive. But as you rightly said, it is not yet commercially available. I do see the benefit of it.

There is more and more data coming in favor of it, and there was data that was also at ASH. So I do see that in the future we’ll be able to most likely have it available more widely. At this point, it is just a blood test to attempt to check the disease level at a much deeper level and be able to notice if the disease is progressing sooner than our currently available tools.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

Myeloma Patient Expert Q&A: Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi

/in , , , , , , , /by

Myeloma Patient Expert Q&A: Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

 In this START HERE myeloma program, Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi from Mayo Clinic spotlights priorities in the rapidly expanding myeloma treatment landscape. Watch as Dr. Ailawadhi addresses pressing questions submitted by patients and families, providing invaluable guidance and reassurance in navigating the complexities of myeloma care.

Download Guide  |  Descargar Guía

See More from START HERE Myeloma

Related Programs:

Are Myeloma Therapies Showing Deeper Responses?

 How Are Myeloma Therapies and Clinical Trials Becoming More Accessible?

 What Treatments Are There for Myeloma Patients Who Relapse After CAR T

What Treatments Are There for Myeloma Patients Who Relapse After CAR T

Transcript:

Lisa Hatifield:

Hello and welcome. My name is Lisa Hatfield, your host for this Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program, where we bridge the expert and patient voice to enable you and me to feel comfortable asking questions of our healthcare teams. The world is complicated, but understanding your multiple myeloma doesn’t have to be. The goal is to create actionable pathways for getting the most out of myeloma treatment and survivorship.

Joining me today is Dr. Ailawadhi, back by popular demand. Dr. Ailawadhi is a respected multiple myeloma expert from Mayo Clinic. Dr. Ailawadhi’s career focus includes the treatment of plasma cell disorders like myeloma and understanding the epidemiology and pathophysiology of this disorder. It’s always such a pleasure having you, Dr. Ailawadhi. I’m really excited you’re joining us again. So thank you for joining us.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

And thanks a lot for having me, Lisa. This is excellent. I look forward to this next iteration of the Patient Empowerment Network START HERE program.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. So before we dive into today’s discussion, please take a moment to download the program resource guide using the QR code. This guide contains pertinent information to guide you both before and after the program. And this program will provide you with a comprehensive update on the latest myeloma news and its implications for you and your family. Following that, we’ll launch into some questions that we have received from you.

So let’s start here. Dr. Ailawadhi, at this juncture in myeloma history, we are witnessing unprecedented activity, a surge of new treatment options, and a wealth of insights. Today, we are privileged to have your expertise to help us decipher these developments and shed light on the advancements shaping the landscape of myeloma care. First, we’re going to get a high-level update from Dr. Ailawadhi on what the latest myeloma news means for you and your family. And then we’re going to talk about some questions that you’ve sent in. So let’s get started with the high-level update, Dr. Ailawadhi. Can you speak to the latest news and priorities in the rapidly expanding myeloma treatment landscape?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Excellent. I think, Lisa, that’s an excellent and important question. Because as you rightly mentioned, there is such a large amount of data that is coming through for myeloma all the time. I mean, it’s almost, we kind of talk about the fact that every time you turn your shoulder or look over your shoulder, there is a new drug approved. So I can imagine this can be very overwhelming. So what I’ll say is that in my opinion, there are some categories of new data that are pertinent and important for our patients. 

The two or three out of them that come to my mind, one is what’s called CELMoDs, or there are a couple of agents there called iberdomide, mezigdomide. These are showing some interesting data. Important to keep in mind that they are somewhat related to the immunomodulatory drugs lenalidomide (Revlimid), pomalidomide (Pomalyst), but they’re showing benefit in patients who have had len and pom before and have progressed. So exciting stuff there.

We’re also seeing some interesting data about newer CAR Ts and bispecific antibodies. They are all coming up with some benefits in some cases. I think it’s important to keep in mind that the bispecifics are landing at the 60 to 70 percent response rate, and CAR Ts are typically landing at the 80 to 90 percent response rate, but there are more agents expected.

There are also some newer bispecifics in different classes, like one of them is called cevostamab, which is an FcRH5 inhibitor or targeting bispecific. So newer bispecific, not just more of the same category. And there has also been recent data about Bcl-2 inhibitors, which have been traditionally used for patients with translocation 11;14.

There have been some negative data, negative as in trials, which did not pan out with a drug called venetoclax (Venclexta), but there are two other drugs that had some recent data shown from different companies, which were exciting information. So in my mind, those are kind of the broad new drug categories. There is another, a couple of other quick things that I’ll mention.

One is we’re getting more and more information about real world experience with these new drugs. It’s good to see that CAR Ts are panning out very similar in the real world as they are in clinical trials. We’re also seeing that the side effect profile of a lot of these newer novel immunotherapy drugs is similar as seen in the clinical trials.

Racial ethnic disparities are something which are very close to my heart, and there is more and more information coming out in that. Unfortunately, highlighting the disparities more still rather than yet coming up with solutions. And I think the last thing that I feel which has been recent has been at the American Society of Hematology meeting in 2023, which was in December in San Diego.

One of the myeloma studies actually became a plenary session presentation, which is a pretty big deal for any disease area. So one thing is that it gets highlighted. Secondly, it was a combination of a regimen called isatuximab-irfc (Sarclisa) with carfilzomib (Kyprolis), lenalidomide, and dexamethasone (Decadron) in newly diagnosed patients.

It’s a randomized trial, Phase III, which was presented. I think the important part is we saw unprecedented deep responses and patients in much, much higher numbers than before becoming MRD-negative. So very deep responses. So these are kind of some very broad, but lots of highlights that I talked about.

Lisa Hatfield:  

All right. Thank you. So can you also talk about some of the newer tools for myeloma progression and relapse and what patients might want to know about that? And in particular, maybe talk a bit about MRD testing and the role of MRD testing for patients who relapse.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Excellent question. Lisa, I think the first and foremost thing an important part for our patients to learn is what are their “tumor markers,” for the, or disease markers for myeloma. We can follow myeloma by either the M spike or monoclonal protein, by light chains, by monoclonal protein in the urine or blood. And it’s important to keep that in mind because every now and then we’ll see patients who say, Hey, my ratio changed. So I’m progressing. Well, that comes after the light chains change. So it’s important to understand the role of these things.

So M spike in the urine, M spike in the serum and light chains. One of them is typically the marker for a patient. Now the MRD status or minimal residual disease that is looking for one cell, one myeloma cell from amongst 100,000 cells in the bone marrow. So it is looking at a very deep level. The most important benefit of MRD testing right now is to understand that if a patient turns MRD negative, then they have a superior outcome. Their prognosis is better. Their progression free survival, or the time before their disease comes back is longer. 

But when a patient is MRD-negative and is being followed or maintenance or whatever, if the bone marrow turns MRD-positive, then that might be the sign that the disease might be coming back. Right now, we do not keep switching drugs to get to MRD-negative. That is not the goal of treatment. The way to think about it is we want to get to MRD-negative, but that means it’s incumbent upon us to try and pick a regimen that is more likely to get to MRD-negative. That’s the way to think about it.

Let’s pick a regimen more likely to get us into MRD-negative and hope that we get to MRD-negative. We see every now and then that the patients keep switching regimens just to get to MRD-negative. That’s not the way to go because you’re just using up options too quickly, too fast. A common question that patients ask is, well, does that mean I need to get annual bone marrow biopsies and MRD testing? Probably not.

That’s too much testing. So what I suggest is that once somebody has turned MRD-negative, it’s important to keep an eye on every single thing. Now, change in any of the routine labs, imaging, new symptoms, etcetera. That’s when we switch to the bone marrow again and see if the patient has turned MRD-positive. There are clinical trials going on right now which are stopping drugs based on repeat MRD negativity or starting drugs on MRD positivity. But those are clinical trial questions.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you for that. So along those same lines, since you’re a Mayo physician, I’m curious about the mass spec testing. So if a patient say has been MRD-negative for some time, still wants to monitor at a deeper level, even though it’s not commercialized yet, do you see a role for mass spec testing on a regular basis in the future and being rolled out to community facilities also?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely, Lisa. I did not specifically bring it up because mass spec is not, like you rightly said, is not yet commercially available. Now we’re doing mass spec quite frequently at Mayo Clinic. Basically mass spec is taking up a blood sample. Important to keep in mind, it’s not a bone marrow test, it’s a blood test, but it looks for those abnormal proteins based on the protein weight at a much, much lower level. Our SPEP or serum protein electrophoresis does not pick up very small quantities of the protein mass spec does. So in an essence, the mass spec, if somebody is negative on that, turning mass spec negative to mass spec positive may be an earlier sign of the disease coming back rather than the SPEP yet turning positive. But as you rightly said, it is not yet commercially available. I do see the benefit of it.

There is more and more data coming in favor of it, and there was data that was also at ASH. So I do see that in the future we’ll be able to most likely have it available more widely. At this point, it is just a blood test to attempt to check the disease level at a much deeper level and be able to notice if the disease is progressing sooner than our currently available tools.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great. Thank you. And as a patient, I like to have one more data point that they can get from my blood, not from my bone marrow to assess the disease. So thank you for explaining that. Regarding survivorship, patients are living longer with myeloma in general because of the novel therapies that have come out in the past few years. So how is myeloma survivorship evolving, and what’s different now than it was five or 10 years ago in terms of treatment planning?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Yeah, I think it’s very important to keep that in mind. When I see a newly diagnosed patient, I’m not just telling them, “Hey, this is your induction therapy, and your transplant is the goal.’ We’re trying our best to decide that patient’s life journey with myeloma over the next 10, 15 and hopefully more years. So we’re trying to pick and choose the regimen that is most likely going to help the patient the most today and most likely will give a longer duration of the response. So when you say survivorship, that also very importantly brings up the point that patients are living with myeloma longer. We have to manage their health overall. So looking for any side effects from treatment, managing them very well so the patient is able to stay on the treatment and maintain good quality of life.

There are actually, are clinical trials looking at stopping treatment when there is a very deep, prolonged response. Again, going towards survivorship and giving the patient’s quality of life. There is looking for other cancers. In fact, I had a patient in the clinic and we were talking about just myeloma in general and I was telling them, “Okay, please remember you may not want to do a colonoscopy, but you already have one myeloma cancer diagnosis. The risk of subsequent cancers is always there in any cancer patient.” So that was a male person. So I said, “Okay, please do not miss your colonoscopy. Please do not miss your prostate screening and whatever is age-appropriate must be done.” So managing everything because myeloma is not a sprint, it’s a marathon.

We want to make sure that we pace ourselves well so we manage all the symptoms, all the signs. Bone health becomes much, much more important because the same bone structure is now going to carry us longer and many more years. And as you rightly said, planning, which treatment comes first, which comes next, when does CAR T come? It’s not that everybody must get CAR T today. That’s not the answer. So what to use when becomes extremely more important.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you for that. And thank you, Dr. Ailawadhi, for that important reminder. All of you watching, get your regular screenings, like he said, prostate cancer, mammograms, colonoscopies, get it done. So thank you for that.

One of the things that comes up with that regular, not regular screening, but monitoring after certain therapies for future malignancies, there’s been some discussions about post-CAR T, particularly with T-cell malignancies and monitoring for that. Can you just give a little description of that and any concerns that you have with that or any encouragement you have regarding that and whether that weighs into your treatment options that you give to patients when they are asking about CAR T therapy?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely. Extremely important question, Lisa. This really had a lot of discussion going on. It’s been going on for the past few months now. Okay. So first let’s explain the landscape. The FDA reviewed CAR T-cell treatment because of the fact that there were about 19 T-cell malignancies noted in several thousand patients.

Out of those 19 cases of T-cell malignancies, there was one case of multiple myeloma to the best of my knowledge. Now, risk of subsequent cancers is something, unfortunately, every cancer patient lives with, but in myeloma, we have known about that, especially from our historical knowledge of second malignancies with lenalidomide-based maintenance therapy post-transplant. So subsequent malignancies have always been a risk. There is some risk that is being talked about with CAR T, but frankly speaking, the way I look at it, the risk is significantly lesser than the potential benefit.

Because remember when these CAR T therapies, the two agents got approved in myeloma, they were approved in a situation that there was no standard therapy. And we saw somewhere about 70, 75 percent response rate with one of them and about 98 percent response rate with the other one. So in a setting where there was nothing, you can see the degree of benefit. And the risk of second malignancies is relatively small. So we must discuss this.

A patient must be aware of it, but I think the benefit is way more than the risk. So we document, we discuss, we have specific documentation that we do and specific information that we share with patients, but I think still the benefit is significantly more than the risk.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great. Thank you so much for explaining that. And for any of you out there watching this, Dr. Ailawadhi is a myeloma specialist, and I highly encourage anybody who is looking at CAR T therapy or even for a first consult for myeloma, seek out even one consult from a myeloma specialist. It is so important in trying to understand these therapies and any fears you may have regarding those therapies and the risks of that. So really appreciate that, Dr. Ailawadhi. Thank you. So I think it’s time now to start answering questions from patients that we received from all of you in the audience.

Please remember, this is not a substitute for medical care. Always consult with your medical team. And we are going to jump right in, Dr. Ailawadhi. We have a lot of questions from patients here and I’ll just start with the first one. This patient is asking, my M spike keeps rising in spite of chemo. What can I do?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Very important question, Lisa. Every patient must understand what their disease marker is. This patient is asking about the M spike, which is the monoclonal spike, whether it’s in the blood or in the urine. And if the M spike is continuing to increase and there is a significant increase, significant is defined by at least 25 percent from the nadir or from the bottom most point with the, at least a absolute increase of 0.5 gram per deciliter. So half a gram per deciliter. So we want a 25 percent increase, but we also want at least 0.5 gram per deciliter.

So if somebody had an M spike of one at their best point, then the increase to 1.5 is significant. If somebody had the M spike of 0.2, then it’s not the 25 percent increase, it’s the 0.5 that must happen. So they hit 0.7 and that’s a significant increase. So that’s how we think about M spike, 25 percent with an absolute of at least 0.5 gram per deciliter.

If that is indeed happening, this would be considered a biochemical progression. And at that point, it should be considered to switch around the treatment because we don’t want the disease to grow to the point that there are actually symptoms showing up or organ damage happening. We want to be able to capture the disease progression sooner and act upon it.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great, thank you. Do you have any recommendations for people who, as we might have some patients watching this, who are light chain only? Any guidelines on if those numbers are rising?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

That’s an excellent question too. So if somebody has light chains as their marker, we are looking at an increase in the involved serum free light chain. So if somebody has kappa as their marker, the kappa is going up, or if they have lambda as the marker, the lambda is going up. Typically, if both of them go up, that is not disease progression. That could be coming from kidney dysfunction. Somebody is dehydrated and they get labs checked. Both kappa and lambda might be elevated. Again, a 25 percent increase in the absolute. But at the same time, we are also looking at at least 10 milligram per deciliter change.

So if somebody had a light chain of two milligram per deciliter, if it goes to 12, that might be a significant change. But I can say that light chains are a little bit more volatile and they do get affected by our fluid status. So if I ever notice a patient with a light chain increase, I’m more likely to repeat the test very soon, maybe even at a couple of days, one week interval, just to make sure that there is a trend rather than just a fluctuating light chain.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you for that information.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

And I should maybe, very quickly add, we do not check light chains in the urine. Light chains should be checked in the blood. Urine light chains are very nonspecific and there’s no need to test them.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. That’s helpful also. So patients don’t have to walk around with their big orange jugs full of fluids. So thank you. All right. This might be a complicated question to answer. But in general terms, for those who relapse for the first time, what are the best treatment options?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

I think that’s a very important, and I can imagine a scary situation. So somebody who relapses in general, not just even the first time, the factors that are taken into account for deciding what treatment they should get, there are broadly three categories of factors. Patient factors deciding what’s the age, what’s the other comorbidities, are they diabetic, are they heart disease, kidney dysfunction, because those things go into the decision of what may or may not be given. So patient factors.

Also importantly, how close are you to your treatment center? Can you come in for infusion or injection drugs time? And again, can you prefer or do you prefer oral drugs only? Et cetera. Those things become important. Then that…so that’s patient factors and disease factors. How fast is the progression? Is it high-risk disease, standard risk disease? Is it biochemical progression like the previous person asked?

Or is it actually a clinical progression in which there’s kidney dysfunction or anemia or bone disease? Because the choices and the urgency of treatment may change. So patient factors, disease factors, and then drug factors are the third class or third category, which is what have you had before? How long have you been on it? Are you on maintenance or not? Is your disease considered refractory to a certain agent, meaning resistant to a certain agent? Typically, if you were on a treatment and your disease is progressing, that same drug may not be used again.

And there are some times that we will reuse a drug, but generally not. We can use the same class, but we may not typically use the same drug. So I think the choice of treatment depends on all of those factors put in. And then we come up with one or two or three regimens and we discuss them with patients. And, of course, being an academic, physician, I must say there is always, you must always seek out good clinical trials if they’re available to you. That is the way our field moves forward.

Lisa Hatfield:

Yes, thank you for that information. So we have another patient asking, “Do myeloma patients require multiple prior therapies prior to being eligible for CAR T?” And what’s the rationale for not implementing CAR T immediately, which probably has to do with FDA approval based on clinical trials at this point?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely. You’re absolutely right, Lisa. So any drug, let alone CAR T, any drug can only be given in the situation that it is approved by the FDA. So basically in accordance with that drug’s FDA approval label. Currently, CAR T-cell therapy is approved in the U.S. after at least four prior lines of therapy. And the patient must have had treatment with at least one proteasome inhibitor,  for which we have three drugs, bortezomib (Velcade), ixazomib (Ninlaro), and carfilzomib. They must have been treated with at least one prior immunomodulatory drug; lenalidomide, thalidomide (Thalomid), pomalidomide. And they must have been previously treated by at least one monoclonal antibody, daratumumab (Darzalex) or Isatuximab (Sarclisa).

Once the patient has had all these criteria met, they’ve become a candidate for CAR T-cell therapy. Frankly, we cannot just use a drug anywhere because we cannot use a drug where it has not shown to be of benefit. And importantly, it has not shown to be of any risk. So CAR T-cell therapy in the first line setting is being studied in clinical trials, but is not FDA-approved. Currently approved only after four prior lines, but the FDA is reviewing data for both the CAR T’s to see if they may be available sooner. As of right now, that approval is still pending.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. We’re hopeful that that will happen soon.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Hopeful.

Lisa Hatfield:

Yeah. So interesting question from a patient, “Does CAR-T therapy actually change one’s DNA?”

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

No. The CAR T therapy does not change one’s DNA. What happens is, there are T cells taken out of a patient. The DNA of those T cells is modified and then those T cells are given back to the patient. Those T cells do not go and integrate into your other healthy body cells or your stem cells, et cetera. Those T cells, it’s almost like giving a boost of immunity, which is targeted against your myeloma. So those T cells go in and they fill those myeloma cells. Now we hope that those T cells perpetuate and teach or create some memory T cells and that immunity lasts a little bit longer. But all of that genetic modification stays within the T cells. It does not integrate anywhere else.

Now, I know there was a previous question about T-cell lymphomas, that is related to this question in a way because the risk that is theoretical is, that that genetic modification in the T cells might make those T cells replicate uncontrollably leading to a T-cell cancer or T-cell lymphoma. But I’m saying that this is theoretical because while it is possible, it happens extremely rarely and even in the cases where the cancer happened, it has been seen that the cancer may not come from that portion of the DNA that was…that’s where the modification was done. So, low risk.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. Thank you very much for that.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay. So what would be the next steps, Dr. Ailawadhi for a patient who’s had CAR T and reaches a relapse state or is relapsed?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Yep. This is something, unfortunately is the truth of the matter in myeloma at least that we are, we don’t seek cures. We have had some long remissions. I have, for example, patients who are now reaching three, three-and-a-half years of remission on CAR T treatment who received it on clinical trials even before they got FDA-approved.

But, unfortunately, the disease does come back. So what happens is, we are seeing data that the novel, other novel immunotherapies like bispecific antibodies, even the ones who go after the same target as CAR T, BCMA targeting bispecifics, they do have some response rates, good response rates in post CAR T setting. So the bispecific antibodies by themselves may give us 60 to 65 percent response, but in the post CAR T setting, that response might go down to 40, 45 percent. So less responses, but still possible.

There are also bispecific antibody. There is one available, which is not against BCMA, it is against GPRC5D. That’s a bispecific called talquetamab-tgvs (Talvey). So a novel target. There is…there are of course a lot of clinical trials. There are some clinical trials that are even looking at CAR T post-CAR T. So different kind of a CAR T. Those clinical trials are going out. So what I would suggest is that if your disease progresses after CAR T-cell treatment, you should very strongly consider getting to a specialist myeloma center and get an opinion like you mentioned, Lisa.

That is so important because the choice of treatment is extremely important at that time. And we are trying our best to sequence all the options we have, in a way, actually one of my patients mentioned, one of these days, Hey, does that mean that I’m basically buying time till something new and exciting comes along? And I said in a way that is true. That we are trying to stretch all our treatments and get to the point that something new and promising just like CAR T comes, and hopefully we get longer benefits again.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you for that. So when you say there’s a possibility of CAR T and then a post-CAR T maybe a second CAR T. Would that be a different target then?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

So there could be a different target. I have, in fact, just yesterday I saw a patient who had received one CAR T in a clinical trial and then they were subsequently able to receive a CAR T standard of care, which had been FDA approved. So they used different CAR Ts, but one was in clinical trials and one was standard of care.

Lisa Hatfield:

Oh, great. Okay. Again, important to see a myeloma specialist to tease out all this information. Thank you. All right. This patient is asking, “I’m 81 and living with comorbidities. The myeloma was diagnosed after bone marrow test. How is treatment fitness determined?” And also a question about that is if you’re given an ECOG status of something you don’t like it, can that be improved after you’ve had treatment?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Absolutely.

Lisa Hatfield:

Maybe be eligible for a trial or something.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Correct. Correct. That is so important. When this patient mentioned that they’re 81-year-old and they’re living with comorbidities, I think, so when I’m talking to a patient who’s new to me, it’s very important for me to try to tease out what was their performance status or their fitness status prior to myeloma. Because my goal is to try to get them as close to that as possible. Now if this patient is saying that they were already quite frail before the diagnosis of myeloma and myeloma is added to the frailty, then it becomes a little tricky because we’re starting in a difficult spot. We do determine fitness by asking questions, simple questions like, what can a patient do at baseline? Can they do grocery store or grocery shopping by themselves? Can they walk around the block? Do they get short of breath? Et cetera.

And frankly, there are 81-year-olds who are playing golf every day and are fitter than me. So I’m just saying that age by itself is not the criteria. And, Lisa, like you rightly mentioned, if there are fitness issues coming from the disease itself, then that’s the time that we actually have to work with the treatment, get the treatment started, and then assess the fitness a couple of months later, a couple of cycles later. Because the treatment may have worked and may have improved the fitness quite a bit.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great thank you for that. So this person is asking, their husband is starting maintenance therapy, so I am assuming they just finished induction therapy, having leg pains mostly at night. Could this be a form of peripheral neuropathy or is maybe from bisphosphonates or from any of the medications that maybe were used during induction?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

So, excellent question. So, this is almost going back to that survivorship question that we discussed earlier, that it’s so important to manage the side effects and maintain quality of life. So, a lot of patients with myeloma will say that I have cramping or symptoms or some pins and needles at night more so. Part of it is because body’s at rest, relaxed, things, symptoms become more focused. Yes, it could be peripheral neuropathy, but at the same time certain drugs caused muscle cramping or what’s called myalgias, sometimes maintenance therapies can cause that.

It’s important for somebody to be able to determine is it coming from muscles or nerves? Is it coming because some electrolytes are abnormal. Like one of the common things is low magnesium or low potassium can cause neuropathy, for example, or cramping. I’ve had patients who will get some over-the-counter lotions or some forms et cetera, which are infused with some electrolytes and say that they feel some benefit. So topical things are good. So I think it’s important to figure out is it muscle or nerve and is it coming from drugs or disease? And that’s where your physician can help tease it out.

Lisa Hatfield:

Okay, thank you. So we have a patient who is talking about her genetic abnormalities, but has been through both auto and allo stem cell transplant in the last two years and has relapsed. And is asking, “Can CAR T-cell therapy help me?” And would she even be eligible for CAR T therapy given the allotransplant?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

That’s an important question. So first of all, sorry to hear that, that your disease is behaving that aggressively, that you’ve had both the transplants in the past two years and still having issues. So yes, CAR T can still be used after an allotransplant. There are some criteria. You should not be on any graft versus host suppressive medications, and you should not have any active graft versus host disease going on. So depending on those, yes patients can get CAR T post. And, in fact, I’ve had a couple of patients who’ve had CAR T after allotransplant.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great, thank you. I’m sure that’ll give this patient some hope. Are there any studies showing that treatment can be tapered? Tapered to by daily, once 90 percent reduction in myeloma has occurred with various therapies. So in general, you may know what medication this patient’s talking about, but is that possible to do that, to taper therapy?

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

So, absolutely, first of all, in myeloma care, Lisa, you had mentioned initially that as somebody went to maintenance, they have had induction. So there are these terms used for categories of treatment, induction, consolidation, maintenance. But if the disease gets controlled adequately at a certain time point, the treatment can be modified to a maintenance. It depends on the regimen.

Some regimens, for example, we are able to get rid of the steroids after a certain time and then in certain regimens the drugs can be reduced in dose or frequency, et cetera. All of the drugs we use have maintenance regimens and maintenance doses. But I should put a word of caution there. I see very frequently that the moment the labs improve, this quote unquote “maintenance” is brought in.

That’s not the right way to do things. The right way is to go back to the clinical trial based on which this regimen was started. And according to that clinical trial, after however many cycles of treatment the maintenance was supposed to happen, it should happen. So if I’ll very quickly say if somebody stays, starts on a regimen and within four months their M spike comes down, and now it has plateaued. Because our drugs are so good that they work that fast. And somebody says, “Okay, four months of that is enough, let’s save it for the future. Let’s go to maintenance.” I would say, “Absolutely not.”

In fact, there is data suggested from a couple of regimens that if significant modifications were made prior to one year of the regimen, then the outcomes were inferior. And I’m not going in specific regimens and I’m not saying that that is applicable to everything, but what I’m saying is, yes, maintenance and tapering is possible. In fact, there are clinical trials looking at even stopping medication. But when and how that change is to be made is very very important. It’s critical. If your physician is not comfortable about that time point, reach out to a myeloma specialist. They should be able to guide when and how to reduce or taper or put on maintenance.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. And that’s very important what you said about induction therapy. Go back to the clinical trial and look and see what the clinical trial said as far as how long that treatment should last because it is exciting as a patient when you start seeing those numbers dropping exponentially. They’re just plummeting, and you want to go off it, you don’t feel great. It’s hard to stay on a therapy for 6 to 12 months that you don’t really enjoy and nobody really does. So that’s important. And then maybe talk about maintenance therapy later. It would be nice to have limited duration maintenance, sometime in the future for induction therapy. Stick with what the clinical trial says. So, okay, this patient is asking another really important question, “I have myeloma and now my daughter does as well. She’s 37, is multiple myeloma hereditary?”

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

I’m sorry to hear about this situation and I’m so sorry that your daughter who’s 37 got diagnosed. There is a small, very small number of very young patients and I’m saying using this term very young, which is just a generic thing that I’ve said because myeloma median age of diagnosis 68. I saw a patient who was diagnosed at 33 and they’re 40 now and they’ve already gone through every single thing that they can think of. And we were talking about clinical trials. So, typically myeloma is not hereditary. It is not something that is passed along through the generations. But what I would say is that there is, if this sort of a situation is happening that you have myeloma and now your daughter has it at a young age, it is important for you to consider getting genetic counseling.

So a genetic counsel for them to be able to look deeper into it. There is not a very standard specific test, so for me to say, Hey, you go and get this genetic test done and that’ll find out this mutation, whatever. But it’s important to get, go through some genetic counseling for them to be able to look a little bit deeper, some next-generation sequencing, what is called germline testing or somatic testing. They should be able to compare both the parent and the daughter’s disease as well as what’s called germline, which is their native DNA, which they were born with, to see if there is anything that jumps out of that. But that would be important to go through at a larger cancer center or if that service is available through your local physician also. That would be great.

Lisa Hatfield:

Great, thank you. Well, I think that’s it for our questions. That’s all that we have time for. But Dr. Ailawadhi, thank you so much for once again, being part of our Patient Empowerment Network START HERE Program. Because it really is these kinds of conversations that help patients, me included, feel more empowered to take questions back to our providers and our healthcare team. So thank you so much for joining us and thank you out there to everybody who’s watching this program, we appreciate you and we appreciate your time and expertise.

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi:

Thanks and I look forward to the next time.

Lisa Hatfield:

Thank you. I’m Lisa Hatfield. Thank you for joining this Patient Empowerment Network Program and we look forward to seeing you again soon.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey

Dr. Vinicius Ernani: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients?

/in , /by

Dr. Vinicius Ernani: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

Why is it vital for small cell lung cancer patients  to be empowered by cancer experts? Expert Dr. Vinicius Ernani from the Mayo Clinic discusses the power of giving patients hope and the importance of clinical trials.

See More from Empowering Providers to Empower Patients (EPEP)

Related Resources:

Beth Sandy: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients?

 Dr. Yaw Nyame: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients?

Dr. Yaw Nyame: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients?

Transcript:

Dr. Vinicius Ernani:

So I think it’s always important to give the patient hope. It doesn’t matter how aggressive the disease is. I think the patients, they need to have hope to go home and continue moving with their lives. So again, small cell, it’s an aggressive disease, yes, but it responds very well to treatment. And now, we know that immunotherapy is there, it improves survival. We know that about 10 percent, 12 percent of the…50 percent of the patients are alive at one year after they start treatment. If you look at two years, there’s about 20 percent of the patients are alive. And if we look at five years, there’s about 10 percent of the patients that are alive with small cell. So we are seeing some progress with immunotherapy.

And again, I encourage, this is a disease that responds very quickly. It’s going to make you feel better very soon. I think that any patient with extensive stage small cell lung cancer deserves to be treated. And again, there’s more clinical trials coming with the immunotherapy, with the antibody drug conjugates. So hopefully, we’re going to continue to move the needle in small cell lung cancer.

Small Cell Lung Cancer Clinical Trials and DeLLphi Study Update

/in , , , , , , , , , , , , , /by

Small Cell Lung Cancer Clinical Trials and DeLLphi Study Update from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What value might small cell lung cancer (SCLC) clinical trial participation and the DeLLphi study offer patients? Expert Dr. Vinicius Ernani from the Mayo Clinic explains the significance of clinical trial participation and what is being studied in the DeLLphi trial for SCLC care.

[ACT]IVATION TIP

“…always ask your team about clinical trials. And again, I recommend patients, if it’s a reasonable clinical trial, I will always recommend my patients to be enrolled in it.”

See More from [ACT]IVATED Small Cell Lung Cancer (SCLC)

Related Resources:

Understanding Small Cell Lung Cancer Research News and Future Treatments

 Starting Time-Sensitive Small Cell Lung Cancer Treatment

 Woman doctor speaking with woman patient.

Advice for Small Cell Lung Cancer Patients Considering Clinical Trials 

Transcript:

Lisa Hatfield:

Dr. Ernani, can you speak to the importance of expression of DLL3, what it is and what it means for small cell lung cancer research, and why is clinical trial participation so important in small cell lung cancer? And what advice do you have for patients who are considering a clinical trial?

Dr. Vinicius Ernani:

Yeah, so DLL3 is a protein expressed on the cancer cell of the majority of those patients with small cell lung cancer. And that’s where, exactly where tarlatamab, which is, it’s the BiTE, the T-cell engager that I mentioned before, that’s one of the targets. So the tarlatamab, it binds to the DLL3 on the surface of the cancer cell, and also bind to the CD3 at the T cell, right?

So that activation, the tarlatamab does that bridge and that activation enhances or activates the T cells to go there and fight the cancer. What we’ve seen in DeLLphi study with the tarlatamab is that the responses are irrespective of the DLL3 expression. But that being said, again, is the target of tarlatamab. And so it, again, it binds to the DLL3 the cancer cell, and it binds to the CD3 on the T cell.

And that activation enhances the T cell to fight against the cancer. Why is clinical trial participation so important in small cell? Well, I think I encourage all my patients to participate in clinical trials because some of the treatments that you can only get in clinical trials today, they might become the standard of care tomorrow.

Let’s say patients on immunotherapy five years ago, there are still some patients that are on trial, they’re still getting immunotherapy. And now, basically every disease you can treat the patients with immunotherapy. So you never know. The trial that you are enrolled in today might be the new standard of care tomorrow, and you might be having this chance to get it very early in the course of your disease.

So my activation tip for this question is, always ask your team about clinical trials. And again, I recommend patients, if it’s a reasonable clinical trial, I will always recommend my patients to be enrolled in it.

Share Your Feedback:

Create your own user feedback survey