Tag Archive for: prostate cancer expert
PODCAST: Updates in Prostate Cancer Treatment and Research | What You Need to Know
With research evolving quickly, it’s more important than ever that people with prostate cancer take an active role in their care. Dr. Channing Paller shares an update on recent prostate care treatment advances, discusses essential testing–including genetic testing–and provides advice for self-advocacy.
Channing Paller, MD is the Director of Prostate Cancer Clinical Research at Johns Hopkins Medicine. Learn more about Dr. Paller.
See More From INSIST! Prostate Cancer
Transcript:
Katherine:
Hello, and welcome. I’m Katherine Banwell. Your host. Today’s program focuses on helping patients with advanced prostate cancer insist on better care. We’re going to discuss the latest research, current treatments, and how patients can collaborate with their healthcare team on key decisions.
Before we meet our guest, let’s review a few important details. The reminder email you received about this program contains a link to program materials. If you haven’t already, click that link to access information to follow along during the webinar.
At the end of this program, you’ll receive another link to a program survey. Please take a moment to provide feedback about your experience today, in order to help us plan future webinars. And finally, before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you.
Well, let’s meet our guest today. Joining me is Dr. Channing Paller. Dr. Paller, welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?
Dr. Paller:
Thank you, Katherine. I’m delighted to be here today. My name is Channing Paller. I’m Associate Professor of Oncology at Johns Hopkins and the director of Prostate Cancer Clinical Research.
Katherine:
Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.
Dr. Paller:
Thank you for having me.
Katherine:
Dr. Paller, in June, prostate cancer researchers from around the world met to discuss their findings at the annual American Society of Clinical Oncology, or ASCO meeting, in Chicago. Would you walk us through the highlights from that meeting that patients should know about?
Dr. Paller:
Absolutely. We’ve had a exciting time for prostate cancer in June. So, I’d say, the first thing I would bring up is, the PEACE-1 trial was discussed again, and more data came out from that trial. That trial originally supported what we found, the STAMPEDE trial, to say, yes, we should add abiraterone to androgen deprivation therapy and chemotherapy in helping de novo metastatic patients live longer and do better overall. And it also, this time around, showed us that combining abiraterone (Zytiga) with radiation, plus or minus chemo, had patients do better. So, they had a longer progression-free survival, or metastasis-free survival.
And also, the neat thing was, patients had fewer local symptoms in the long run. So, it prevented catheters being needed later, prevented blockages. It prevented local side effects from their cancer, which was really terrific to know, because that helps with patients’ quality of life.
That was one of the main, personally. Go ahead.
Katherine:
Yeah, I was just going to ask, anything else?
Dr. Paller:
Yes. So, the second big headline, which is one of my dear loves, is all of the PARP inhibitor data. So, there were a couple trials presented, and this month has been terrific in terms of, there have been two drug approvals. So, let me talk through a couple of those.
So, one of the big ones that was presented at ASCO was looking at talazoparib (Talzenna) and enzalutamide (Xtandi) in patients with metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer, and it showed that the combination of those two drugs helped patients do better than enzalutamide alone, in that setting. What was also interesting is a subset of patients with DNA repair mutations did even better.
June 20th, the FDA approved that combination for patients with metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer with DNA repair mutations.
We also had a drug approval for abiraterone (Zytiga) and olaparib (Lynparza) in the same space of metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer for patients with BRCA mutations. That was a more narrow approval, but it was still very important.
And what’s exciting here is, we’re really learning more about targeted therapy, precision medicine, for our prostate cancer patients. When I started treating prostate cancer patients back in 2005, the main drug approved was chemotherapy, docetaxel (Taxotere), and hormone deprivation therapy. And in the last almost 20 years, or 18 years, we’ve had 10 drug approvals, and we’re really starting to have multiple drugs approved based on people’s genetics.
Katherine:
That’s such promising news. I mentioned at the top of the program that our focus for this webinar is advanced prostate cancer. So, I’d like you to define that. What is advanced prostate cancer? And is any of the research you mentioned focused on this stage of disease?
Dr. Paller:
Well, advanced prostate cancer includes any prostate cancer that was extended outside the prostate, really, that’s spread to the nodes, even to the lymph nodes, to the liver, to the lungs, to the bones. And so, we have a lot of new findings, looking at this space, and that was a lot of what they showed at the ASCO conference.
The other thing we’re learning is that we really want to get genetic testing on everybody. And so, in addition to your regular, “How do you feel?” “What do your labs show?” “What is your PSA doing?”
We also want to get imaging, right? So, we want to look at imaging, in terms of, what did your CT and bone scan show? And nowadays, we’re moving into PSMA, or prostate-specific membrane antigen, PET scans.
And so, that’s the new main way people look at where their prostate cancer has gone, and help them decide, what is the best treatment for me? Is it to get surgery locally, or has it advanced now, and I really need to do hormone therapy and radiation, or some other combination of systemic therapy, meaning more hormones, or more chemotherapy, with targeted therapies such as radiation?
Katherine:
Beyond ASCO, Dr. Paller, are there other research or treatment advances that patients should know about? Anything other than what you’ve mentioned already?
Dr. Paller:
Oh, yes. So, the other headline that I was really excited about at ASCO is watching medicine adopt the world of artificial intelligence. There was a great abstract, looking at how we can use artificial intelligence to look up pathology slides.
So, in the past, we would always want to go to a top academic center to have your pathology reviewed by a top expert and make sure we were treating the right cancer, and make sure we really understand your risk. What we’re finding is, we can create biomarkers, and we’re understanding not just genetic, genomic biomarkers, but also pathology biomarkers, and age, and PSA, and risk, and comorbidities, and we can combine them all together and use AI to help us better stratify patients.
And so, although it’s early, I think this is going to be an explosion in terms of helping us better define risk for patients in advanced prostate cancer, and help them figure out, do they need intensification of treatment, or can we de-intensify treatment? Can we not cause as much toxicity, and they’ll do just as well? And so, I was really excited to see that data as well.
Katherine:
How can patients stay up to date on evolving research?
Dr. Paller:
There are many ways to stay up to date. There are nice summaries at ASCO. There are nice summaries through the Prostate Cancer Foundation. There are good summaries at each of the institutions with whom you work.
One of my favorite ways to stay up to date on precision medicine is one of these registries that I am co-leading, which is called the PROMISE registry. This is a wonderful opportunity which was conceived in the pandemic.
And so, it’s pandemic friendly, and that is called the PROMISE registry. And what you can do is go to prostatecancerpromise.org and sign up if you have prostate cancer. And you say, “Hey, I have prostate cancer. This is my address. Please ship me a kit where I can do saliva testing of my genes.” And once you get your tests sent in, they’ll send you a kit, you send it back, you’ll get an email, and you can go over your results with a genetic counselor.
And then, once you get enrolled in this program, it is really just a free information source. And so, you can learn more about the clinical trials around the country for patients with different mutations. And so, I love that as, whether or not you have a mutation and you’re going to follow with us for 20 years, because we’re going to offer you opportunities and let you be the first to know about new drug approvals, you can still hear about all of the new research.
And I think that’s a wonderful, free resource that we’ve done for our patients to help them understand more about what’s out there. Another opportunity to learn more about prostate cancer is the prostate cancer clinical trial consortium. They have a nice website looking at germline genetics, looking at diversity, looking about clinical trial design. And so, there’s lots of different places to learn more about prostate cancer.
Katherine:
Dr. Paller, what about clinical trials? Why should patients consider enrolling, and what are the benefits for them?
Dr. Paller:
I like to tell my patients that once you have metastatic or advanced prostate cancer, we’re not doing placebo on you. If we’re doing placebo, it’s the standard of care plus a new drug, and we want to know if the new drug in combination with the old drug is better than the old drug alone.
And so, I find those patients heroes, in one sense, for the future, right? They’re helping to approve the new drugs of the future, and I also find, oftentimes, those are the patients that do best, because they’re getting to try all of the new drugs of the future before they’re approved. And so, I will have patients that are, I call them chronic trialists because they’ll go through all my new drugs before they’re even approved.
And I love it, and they love it, because they do better than the average, because they’re exploring all of the new therapies. And so, I find those patients heroes, and I really appreciate their efforts. I would say, the most important thing about clinical trials is learning about them, right? And being able to ask the questions. “Well, what phase is that trial?” So, Phase I is really testing safety, and finding the right dose for patients. And so, that’s usually a small number of patients, and looking exactly at, does this work? Do we have a biomarker to follow? What’s the best way to use this new drug?
Phase II starts to look at efficacy, as well as looking at side effects. And so, with Phase II, we really look at, what is the effect? Is it better than what we expected? Does it help these patients – is it better than some of the other drugs?
And then, Phase III are usually large trials that are looking at FDA approval. They’re looking for registration with the FDA, getting approval, and being the new standard of care that’s paid for by insurance companies.
Katherine:
I’d like to back up a bit and talk about the treatments that are currently available. Let’s start with surgery. What role does that play in treating advanced disease?
Dr. Paller:
Surgery is one of the key tools that we use when we’re trying to cure prostate cancer when it’s localized, or just starting to spread. But if it’s too advanced, meaning, spreading to the lymph nodes, we usually don’t recommend surgery. So, surgery is usually used for curative intents, although there is a trial ongoing now, looking at the same question of, is adding surgery to systemic therapy helpful in terms of long-term cure rate, in terms of decreased side effects later, and local symptoms later?
And so, we are asking that question. That is one of the ongoing clinical trials that we’re looking at right now, as a group.
Surgery is terrific. Radiation is terrific. Really working with your team to understand for you, what are the side effects that you would undergo? What are the risks and benefits of each modality that you would like to, or that you’re willing to tolerate? And so, I think the differences between surgery and radiation, for curing patients, are really something that you need to discuss with your provider. The risk of erectile dysfunction, the risk of the local symptoms from the radiation, the risk of having bleeding from your bladder, the risk of bowel problems. Those are all things that that you – urinary incontinence – that you need to discuss with your physician.
Katherine:
What are other options that are available now, for patients?
Dr. Paller:
For curative intent, the main two treatment options are surgery, radiation. Many people for very localized disease are trying other therapies, such as cryotherapy, and more focal therapies. But really, for curative, the standard is surgery or radiation. And as it gets more advanced, circling back to advanced prostate cancer, we are learning that combination therapy is better. So, adding pills like abiraterone, adding systemic therapies, help patients do better.
So, there’s a big, long list of therapies upfront that we use for metastatic hormone-sensitive prostate cancer. There’s abiraterone, there is apalutamide (Erleada), there’s enzalutamide, and now, darolutamide (Nubeqa).
And in fact, in fit patients that can tolerate chemotherapy for metastatic high-volume prostate cancer patients, we always recommend triple therapy, either with abiraterone, docetaxel, and ADT, or with darolutamide, docetaxel, and ADT, and these patients really seem to do better for longer. The other thing I would add is the PEACE-1 trial, which looked at abiraterone and docetaxel, found that patients would do best by adding growth factor support. And so, that is recommended.
The other thing I want to point out to patients is, I know we’re all eager to get started when we find out we have a diagnosis of metastatic prostate cancer, but sometimes, these therapies are quite tough on the system when you have a lot of cancer in your body, and my recommendation to everybody is, one thing at a time.
So, start the hormone therapy and wait at least 30 days, and in fact, in the PEACE-1 trial, they waited 45 days, right? That allows the testosterone levels to fall, it allows you to adjust to the side effects of hormone deprivation therapy, and it allows your body to be ready for the next line of therapy. And you can add the ADT to second line, such as abiraterone or daro during that time, but not adding the chemo all at once, that really makes a difference.
I find, unfortunately, when patients and their providers don’t follow those strict criteria, as they did in the trial, meaning they start chemo and abiraterone and ADT on day one, the levels of chemotherapy get higher in the bloodstream because testosterone regulates that, and we’ve published on that before. And they end up with terrible side effects from the chemotherapy, such as neutropenic fever, which means you end up in the hospital with a bloodstream infection and a fever, and more neuropathy, meaning numbness and tingling in your hands and feet.
And so, I really caution people to spread those therapies out over the first 90 days, and you’ll do better in terms of side effects, and just as well in terms of overall survival.
Katherine:
Where does hormonal therapy fit into the treatment options, and have there been any advances in hormonal therapy?
Dr. Paller:
Yes. So, hormonal therapy is the mainstay of how we take care of prostate cancer patients, whether we do this with surgical castration, which is not done very often anymore, or we do it with an LHRH agonist, or we do it with an LHRH antagonist. So, that means that we can do it with medicines that block the signaling, but that tells your body to produce testosterone in various ways. What’s really neat is we’ve made advances, that there are now oral options for some of these therapies.
In particular, there’s a new therapy called Orgovyx, or relugolix, that is an oral LHRH antagonist that locks testosterone and allows us to stop prostate cancer growth. In addition, there are a variety of LHRH agonists that can be given as subcutaneous shots.
Katherine:
Dr. Paller, let’s talk about what goes into deciding on a treatment path. First, what testing helps you understand the patient’s individual disease?
Dr. Paller:
Great question.
When I meet a patient, we talked about a few variables. First is, how do they feel? Are they in pain? Are they losing weight? Are they fatigued all the time? Are they able to do things that they enjoy, or not? So, that’s the most important, in terms of, how do they feel, and what are their symptoms?
The next thing we looked at is, what are their labs, right? We look at PSA, but we also look at, is the prostate cancer affecting their organs? Is it affecting their red blood cells, their platelets, their white blood cells? And very importantly, it tells us, by looking at their alkaline phosphatase, if it’s in their bones or not. And we also can look at their labs to see, is it affecting their liver or not. Another thing we monitor is their creatinine or kidney function. Is there a blockage of their important organs down there because the prostate cancer has grown? So, the labs tell me a lot about their body function, and making sure their body is still functioning well.
After we do how they feel, and what their labs are, we also look at imaging. And then, the previous years, we’ve always looked at a standard nuclear medicine bone scan, and also, a CAT scan. And nowadays, we’re really moving towards PSMA, or prostate specific membrane antigen, to help us really identify, at a much more sensitive level, where prostate cancer cells are expressed.
And after we do those main three key things, we start to look at diagnostic tests. We look at different ways of assessing what are their genes. So, one of the first things we do is looking at germline genetic testing to see, what were the genes they were born with? And can those genes help us learn more about their cancer, and how it might progress? And also, how we might treat it better if they have certain genes like BRCA.
The other nice thing about genetic testing, or germline genetic testing, is looking at, if they do have a genetic mutation, or a pathologic variant like BRCA, we are always, always telling families that they should get cascade testing for their familyright? So, if they have a mutation, we recommend that their family members get tested to make sure that they’re not at risk for a cancer. And so, we have them meet with a genetic counselor.
So, in addition to what you’re born with, we also want to know what your cancer has developed, because cancer cells are growing quickly, and they can develop a mutation. And so, we also test the cancer, get genomic testing of the cancer, to look for mutations that we can target with our multiple drugs that we’ve approved to target cancers in certain mutations. So, you have something called MSII, we have immunotherapy for you. If you have DNA repair mutations, we have PARP inhibitors for you, or even carboplatin (Paraplatin) can be added to target patients with DNA repair mutations as well.
And so, there’s a whole variety of tests out there by a multitude of providers, that help us really better understand your cancer.
Katherine:
And the treatment options, by the sounds of it.
Dr. Paller:
And the treatment options. Yes, there is. There’s a whole variety of it. Yeah.
Katherine:
So, what is personalized medicine, Dr. Paller? And how is it achieved?
Dr. Paller:
Personalized medicine means many things to many different people. I find the most important thing is not forgetting the patient. The patient needs to be their own advocate, and have an advocate there with them, right? Because maybe the best treatment is chemotherapy, hormone therapy, radiation, etc., etc., but maybe you’re 92, and you’ve lived a good life, and you have heart disease, and you might not die of your prostate cancer. And so, overtreating people is just as dangerous as undertreating people.
And so, precision medicine is a whole variety of things, of looking at the whole person, looking at their genes, looking at biomarkers their cancers produce, and looking at what comorbidities they have, right? If you have really bad diabetes, maybe you don’t want me to add steroids to your regimen. If you have a seizure disorder, maybe you don’t want me to add insulin. I wouldn’t, because there’s a seizure risk. If you have various problems, we just need to take those into account and find the best therapy for each individual.
Katherine:
I think you’ve covered this, in a sense, but I’m going to ask you the question anyway. Why is it important that patients have a role in making decisions about their care?
Dr. Paller:
It is essential that patients have a role in their care so that they are taking ownership and being part of the team, to care for themselves, not to put extra weight or work on the patient, but really, so that they know they’ve made the right choice for them.
Understanding a patient’s priorities are essential. Some patients may not want the side effects of hormone therapy, and they may say, “Hey, I have oligometastatic disease, meaning I just have one spot to my bones, and I’m 80 years old. And Dr. Paller told me that the sub analysis of this triple therapy, new trial, showed that, I’m over 75, I may not benefit as much. And you know what? I don’t want to have the side effects of hormone therapy. I don’t want to lose muscle mass. I don’t want to have hot flashes. I don’t want to have erectile dysfunction.”
“I want to enjoy my life, even if it’s slightly shorter, and it might not be slightly shorter.” And so, I find, having a partnership with a patient to really understand their priorities makes life worth living more, right? So, maybe a patient’s priority is finding time with their grandchildren. Maybe a patient’s priority is getting a PhD. Whatever their patient’s priority is, it is important that we put that to the context of their whole being and helping them really find the best therapy for them, to help them do as well as they can, as long as they can.
Katherine:
I think this this leads us very nicely into the next topic, and that’s self-advocacy. While the goal of this program is to help patients insist on better care, there may be factors that impact their access. What common obstacles do patients face?
Dr. Paller:
The main obstacle for patients is insurance. Unfortunately, I find that it’s frustrating to not be able to provide patients with oral hormonal therapy if they can’t afford it, because they don’t have insurance, and it’s too expensive. But there are other challenges that patients face, right? If they’re young and don’t have childcare, if they have trouble getting time off their work. But I think one of the major problems is economics, and can they get the same care, and can they advocate for themselves, right? So, another problem is, if you are in a community practice, you might not have access to the top diagnostic testing.
And it’s really important that you advocate for yourself and get a second opinion at an academic center where you can get the best testing and figure out the best path for yourself. And sometimes, if patients are at sites where they’re seeing a generalist, they’re not going to get access to that, because that’s not standard at that hospital.
Katherine:
Yeah. Well, what is the medical community doing to help improve access?
Dr. Paller:
We are working hard on reaching out into the community. One of the other hats I wear is, I’m Associate Program Director for the Johns Hopkins Clinical Research Network for oncology. And one of my jobs is to find communities that want to open trials at community sites.
These aren’t our super complicated phase I trials. These are often simple Phase II or Phase III trials that patients can participate in, and really get access to new biomarker tests, get access to new treatments, and really be connected to the centralized knowledge that is available at academic centers.
And I think all of ASCO is doing this, I think all the Prostate Cancer Consortium is doing that, I think the PCF is doing this, and we really are – and I even think the drug companies are reaching out and educating primary care doctors, urologists, radiation oncologist patients.
There are a lot of programs we now do that are direct to patient education, so that we’re not dependent on whether or not the doctor has time to explain these things. And so, programs like this are really wonderful at keeping the patients educated and able to advocate for themselves.
Katherine:
What diversity in clinical trials? Is that an emphasis for the research community?
Dr. Paller:
Absolutely. I think that’s an emphasis across the board in society today.
We are eager to learn more about how patients with different genetic profiles, with different ethnicities, with different socioeconomic backgrounds, are reacting differently to different therapies. If you’re African American, do you respond differently to [treatment] with one study we looked at? If you have a different diet, are you going to respond differently to immunotherapy? And really understanding different demographics is really important to us at this time.
Katherine:
Are there resources that patients can turn to that would help them gain better access to healthcare?
Dr. Paller:
There are programs that are available either through your local community, or another one that has a nice patient centered education program is NCCN, or the National Comprehensive Cancer Network. They have summaries of your tumor type across the board, and how to best treat it.
They also have a list of experts that helped make those guidelines, so that you could reach out to those centers and know the main centers that are treating your cancer.
Katherine:
That’s great advice. Thank you. If a patient is feeling like they aren’t getting the best care, though, what steps should they take to change that?
Dr. Paller:
That’s a good question. So, being a self-advocate takes energy, when oftentimes, you’re tired and overwhelmed at your cancer diagnosis. And so, my heart goes out to all of those patients. Really, finding a second opinion, and finding an academic center or a large program that has a prostate cancer focused program, is helpful.
Or whatever your tumor or issue is, going to a center that is a specialist in that, for a second opinion, is often helpful, and can work with your local physician to help get you the care that you need.
Katherine:
That’s great information, Dr. Paller. Thank you. As we wrap up, I’d like to get your closing thoughts. How do you feel about the future of prostate cancer care? Are you hopeful? Encouraged?
Dr. Paller:
I am so hopeful and encouraged. We are exploding in the number of drugs we have. We are exploding in the number of opportunities and precision medicine drugs that we’re having. This is a wonderful time where we’re combining our understanding of genetics, and biomarkers, and AI, and pathology, and imaging, and I am thrilled.
I think we’re really going to be able to understand which patients should get which drugs without having so much toxicity. And such a high failure rate here, or how do I know who will get the best treatment?
“We’re just going to try it and see.” I don’t want to have to say that in five years. I want to say, “I know this will work, and I can control your symptoms and your side effects.”
And so, I am so excited about the future. I think we’re just making huge strides every day now, and I think this will be a whole new world in the next five years.
Katherine:
Dr. Paller, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Paller:
Thank you so much, Katherine.
Katherine:
And thank you to all of our collaborators.
If you would like to watch this webinar again, there will be a replay available soon. You’ll receive an email when it’s ready. And don’t forget to take the survey immediately following this webinar. It will help us as we plan future programs. To learn more about prostate cancer, and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, Dr. Paller. Great information.
PODCAST: Clinical Trials as a Prostate Cancer Treatment Option | What You Should Know
Should you consider participating in a prostate cancer clinical trial? Dr. Sumit Subudhi explains the clinical trial process, addresses common trial patient concerns, and provides key advice for trial participation. Dr. Subudhi also shares an update on promising prostate cancer research.
Dr. Sumit Subudhi is an Associate Professor in the Department of Genitourinary Medical Oncology, Division of Cancer Medicine at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center.
See More from the Empowered! Podcast
Transcript:
Katherine Banwell:
Hello and welcome. I’m Katherine Banwell, your host for today’s program. Today we’re going to discuss prostate cancer research advances and the role of clinical trials and moving treatment developments forward. Before we meet our guest, let’s review a few important details.
The reminder email you received about this program contains a link to a program resource guide.
If you haven’t already, click that link to access information to follow along during the webinar. At the end of this program, you will receive a link to a program survey. This will allow you to provide feedback about your experience today, and it will help us plan future webinars.
Finally, before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you.
Well, let’s meet our guest today. Joining me is Dr. Sumit Subudhi. Dr. Subudhi, thanks for being with us. Would you introduce yourself?
Dr. Subudhi:
Hi. I’m Sumit Subudhi. I’m an associate professor in the GU Medical Oncology department at MD Anderson Cancer Center. And I exclusively treat patients with advanced prostate cancer. And I’ve been doing it for about a decade.
Katherine:
Thank you. I’d like to begin with an update on prostate cancer research. Would you walk us through the newer classes of treatments that are showing promise?
Dr. Subudhi:
Yeah, in clinical trials, there are classes of drugs known as androgen receptor degraders. And so, the androgen receptor is a protein that basically is the mouth of the prostate cancer. That’s how I like to describe it. And it actually allows testosterone, which is the food, to be eaten by the mouth, and it actually helps the cancer grow.
And what these drugs do is they actually degrade or break down the mouth of the cancer. And, therefore, it starves the cancer to death, and that’s actually the concept. And they seem to be showing some exciting activity in clinical trials, especially in those patients who are resistant to the second-generation hormonal drug that you may have heard of already, such as enzalutamide (Xtandi), apalutamide (Erleada), and darolutamide (Nubeqa). So, I think is something that we’re looking forward to seeing more data on.
Another class of drugs are antibody drug conjugates or ADCs.
And these are what I think of as heat-seeking missiles. So, one part of the drug actually recognizes the cancer, and the other part of the drug actually has a payload that sort of releases a bomb or sort of like chemotherapy-type agent right where the cancer’s located and kills the cancer in that way. And we’re seeing some great clinical activity in prostate cancer with this class of drugs.
And then the final one is bispecifics, and in particular T-cell bispecifics. So, T cells are part of the immune system that actually help kill the cancer.
And, unfortunately, prostate cancer, like some other cancers like pancreatic and glioblastoma, have few T cells inside it. And, therefore, a lot of the immunotherapies that many people have heard about, such as ipilimumab (Yervoy) and pembrolizumab (Keytruda), they’re not very responsive in patients with prostate cancer. And it’s because there’s few T cells in prostate cancer.
What the T-cell bispecifics do is they actually have one part of the drug that actually recognizes the cancer and the other part that recognizes T cells. So, like a bulldozer, it brings T cells right into the prostate cancer and helps kill the cancer that way.
Katherine:
Now there are some inhibitors as well. Is that correct?
Dr. Subudhi:
Yeah. So, the immune checkpoint inhibitors have been around for a while. And, basically, in combination, they seem to be more effective in prostate cancer. But when given alone as monotherapy, they’re less effective.
Katherine:
Are these treatments specifically for patients with advanced prostate cancer?
Dr. Subudhi:
All of them are actually in trials in patients with advanced prostate cancer. And I define advanced prostate cancer as either having metastatic disease, meaning the cancer has spread to other parts of the body outside of the prostate.
Examples include lymph node, the bone, the lung, the liver. But there are so few trials in patients with locally advanced prostate cancer. What I mean by that is they have high-grade prostate cancer, but it’s local, or it’s just in regional lymph nodes. And some of these classes of drugs are being evaluated in that setting as well.
Katherine:
Let’s shift to talk about your research. What are you excited about right now?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, my research focuses on immune checkpoint therapies, which are the inhibitors that you were referring to and understanding how to make them work better in prostate cancer.
And we’re finding out that in prostate cancer there’s about 20 to 25 percent of patients that appear to respond to this type of treatment. But these are patients that don’t have a lot of bone metastases. And these immune checkpoint inhibitors are given in combination. So, they’re not given alone. They’re given with either a combination of anti-CD34 and anti-PD-1 or some other form of that.
Katherine:
Prostate cancer research really can only move forward through clinical trials and patient participation in those trials. Can you briefly explain what a trial is for people who may not be familiar with the term?
Dr. Subudhi:
That’s a great question. My own father has prostate cancer. And he had the same exact question when he started his journey in that.
And so, what I explained to him is that clinical trials are experiments. They’re experiments that are done in our patients.
So, they’re drugs that are thought to mechanistically kill the cancer cell or at least change the environment around the cancer cell to help people live longer. But these drugs were actually tested in mouse models or in tissue models. And we don’t know if they actually work in patients.
And so, in clinical trials, we’re actually testing whether these drugs are safe and whether they’re efficacious or beneficial to our patients. So, I want to be very clear. When patients go on clinical trials, we don’t know if it’s going to work on them. And that’s something that they should know that they’re showing a lot of courage and risk in joining these trials.
But the other point I want to make is that every standard of care drug that is out there actually went through the clinical trial process, and they were approved because they showed benefit in a group of patients.
Katherine:
Well, how can a prostate cancer patient benefit from participating in a trial?
Dr. Subudhi:
One of the key benefits is that you get access to drugs that may actually prolong your life or even cure you and that you wouldn’t have access to in trials.
And so, some of my patients, unfortunately, they’ve exhausted all the standard of care choices that are out there. And the trial’s the only option left versus leaving it up to natural causes of demise from prostate cancer. And so, clinical trials give other opportunities to potentially live longer and have a great quality of life.
Katherine:
So, they could offer some hope.
Dr. Subudhi:
Definitely. As far as I’m concerned, yes. And, actually, with my patients, I try to not wait while they’ve exhausted all the treatments to start them on clinical trials, because I feel like we may be able to save some of these treatments in our back pocket for when they’re too exhausted to be coming to our clinic so often. And so, I like to actually try to get them enrolled in clinical trials early on in their journey with prostate cancer.
Katherine:
I’d like to define some clinical trial terminology to help patients further understand the process. Let’s start with the phases. What occurs during each phase?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, great question. Phase I is the safety phase. So, all we’re trying to do is find the right dose of the drug that is actually safe to give in the patients. And we’re looking for the maximum tolerated dose. And once we find that dose, then we use that dose to go to Phase II of the trial. And Phase II trials are looking at efficacy. So, looking to see whether the trial is giving you any clinical benefit, meaning the cancer’s shrinking or even disappearing.
Katherine:
Go on.
Dr. Subudhi:
And then the third phase is Phase III where you’re testing the current drug, experimental drug, to either standard of care or to a placebo to see whether or not you get a benefit, either a progression-free survival benefit or overall survival benefit. And so, those are the three phases of clinical trials.
Katherine:
What are the different types of clinical trials?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, they’re controlled trials. Actually, I should back up. So, there’s open-label trials where everyone that enrolls in the trial will get the experimental drug. So, there is no control arms in these trials. Then there is the control trials where you can either get the drug, or you may get a placebo or standard of care drug.
There are some trials that allow for crossover, meaning that if you’re in the placebo or standard of care arm, if your cancer progresses, you can actually cross over and get the experimental drug. But I just want to be clear that not all clinical trials have crossover. And if you’re in a control trial, I think that’s an important question to ask your doctors about that.
But the reason why we do the control trials is that we’ve learned that using historical controls – for example, we’re doing a lot of combination studies with chemotherapy, such as docetaxel (Taxotere), which was FDA-approved in 2004. So, if we’re using historical data from almost 20 years ago, it’s not the same thing as our patients that are being treated with docetaxel now, because their treatment landscape has changed so much, and our patients have changed so much.
And so, for that reason, control trials give us a better sense of how effective this experimental drug is doing as opposed to comparing it to a historical perspective.
Katherine:
What other types of clinical trials are available?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, there are a few other options. So, we talked about open-label where everyone’s guaranteed to get the drug. We talked about a controlled study where you will either get one drug or another. And another type is a randomized trial where a computer decides whether or not you’re going to actually get one drug versus another. It’s not your doctor because a lot of people think that I’m making that decision, and I’m not. It’s actually a random computer.
And some trials have 1:1 ratio, meaning a 50 percent chance that you’ll get the experimental drug versus the control drug. But other trials have 1:2 ratio or 1:3 ratio. So, that’s something that, again, you have to ask your physician of how these trials are being randomized.
Katherine:
Well, in a randomized clinical trial, the patient isn’t going to know what drug they’re being given.
Dr. Subudhi:
Actually, that’s not true.
Katherine:
Oh, it’s not.
Dr. Subudhi:
So, you bring up a great question. So, there’s a double-blind randomized clinical trial where not only the patient doesn’t know, but even the physicians and the nurses. No one except for the pharmaceutical company that’s running the trial actually knows who’s actually getting which drug. And it’s only towards the end of the trial that we unblind, and then we share that information. Well, the pharmaceutical company first shares it with the medical team who then shares it with the patient.
Katherine:
I see. Are there other common clinical trial terms that you think patients should know about and understand?
Dr. Subudhi:
I think for now those are…
Katherine:
…they’re the most important?
Dr. Subudhi:
I think to me those are the most important. And I think that sometimes too much information can bog us down.
Katherine:
Well, speaking of information, there is a lot out there, some of which may not be very reliable. And that could lead many patients to having misconceptions about clinical trials. Let’s walk through a few common concerns we’ve heard from our community about trials.
One frequent question is – will I receive a placebo instead of a real treatment? And, first, I’d like you to define placebo. And should this be a concern for patients?
Dr. Subudhi:
Right. So, placebo is a drug that looks similar to the experimental drug. For example, if the experimental drug is a blue pill, then the placebo will be a blue pill. But it will be a pill that should have no known biological activity.
If the experimental drug is given intravenously and you get it in a liquid bag, then the placebo will also come in a liquid bag. So, it will look the same. And that’s why both the medical team as well as the patients or their families will not know which drug the patients have received, meaning the experimental drug or the placebo. But the placebos are meant to not have any biological activity.
Katherine:
So, it shouldn’t be a concern to patients then.
Dr. Subudhi:
Well, the concern that most of my patients share with me when they hear about placebo-controlled trials is, “Well, if I’m not going to get the experimental drug, why should I do this? I mean what benefit does it have for me?” And so, I tell them that one of the benefits is that we are watching you very carefully.
Because we don’t know sometimes which drug you’re getting. But in some control trials, like a randomized control trial, we will know because I’m not blinded.
If you’re in the arm that’s only getting chemotherapy, well, you know you’re not getting an oral pill. So, it’s very clear to the patient what they’re getting. But if they’re getting an oral pill that’s a placebo, we’re watching them very carefully.
So, we’re watching the patients very carefully in these placebo-controlled trials. And they’re coming in often so that we’re not going to miss any devastating things happening from the cancer. In fact, we’ll pick it up earlier than if they were just getting a standard of care outside of a trial. And for that reason I tell that my patients, “Don’t be worried.” And I always make sure that I have a backup plan.
So, the backup plan is either they’re going to cross over, meaning the trial allows for them to cross over to get the experimental drug. Or I have another trial that I know that they will qualify for. Or the third alternative is that I actually have a standard of care drug that I’m ready to give them the second I have it so that they don’t have to have those concerns.
Katherine:
That’s really great information to have. Patients also often have questions about safety. So, what are the risks of clinical trial participation?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, safety is a major issue, especially more into the Phase I. The Phase I trial, if you remember, are the trials where we’re dose escalating, meaning we start off with a small cohort of patients, maybe three to five patients. And we give one dose of the drug. We see if it’s safe. If it’s safe, then we go to the next dosing level. And we just keep going until we find a dose that may be too toxic or too unsafe for our patient.
So, in the Phase I, we have less information, especially in the first-in-human drugs. But in those cases, we are watching you carefully to make sure that nothing bad happens to you.
But the problem with those trials is it requires a lot of time at the institution or with your doctor. For example, I’m doing a bispecific trial where we have to keep the patients inside the hospital for eight days, purely for safety reasons. They’re not getting the drug for all eight days. But we’re just keeping them under observation so in case anything bad happens we’re ready to react because we know that if something bad happens at their home in that first eight days, it could actually risk their lives.
So, in those cases, some trials, if we’re concerned about safety, you’ll be spending more time in the doctor’s office or in a hospital being evaluated. So, that’s the one negative. But sometimes, the trials that can be more exhausting as far as the amount of time it takes you away from your home and family are the ones that have the most reward.
Katherine:
Well, what protocols are in place to protect patients?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, when they sign up for a protocol, we are instructed to give them our best information. So, let’s say it’s a first-in-human drug. Well, usually, first-in-human drugs are tested in other mammals, such as monkeys, and we look for toxicities there. And we have signs of what’s going to happen. Sometimes, a first-in-human drug is part of a class of drugs, like I talked to you about T-cell bispecifics.
Well, there’s several T-cell bispecifics out there. And we’ve learned that this class of drugs has a unique set of side effects that they all tend to have. Some have it more, and some have it less.
But when we’re discussing this with you or the patient, we are actually going to go through each and all of these side effects. Now, me personally, my patients that go on my trials, they all get my cellphone number so they have 24/7 access to me because I know they’re taking a risk. And it’s a lot of courage to go on these trials. And it’s scary. And I want to make sure they don’t feel like they’re ever alone.
Katherine:
Another common concern we hear is that a clinical trial is only considered when there are no other treatment options available for a patient. What are your thoughts on this?
Dr. Subudhi:
There’s a lot of my colleagues in the field that feel that way. And I know a lot of patients’ misconceptions are also that way. And that’s partly because of Hollywood and movies and TV shows that we watch. But I think that many people, especially in the medical field, think of clinical trials as the last resort.
And I actually disagree with that. I think that I like to actually start my patients with one or two standard of care treatments. But after that, really start putting clinical trials in between. And we have to remember that there’s not always a clinical trial available that the patient actually meets the criteria for.
So, it’s always disheartening in clinic when I meet someone for the very first time who was referred to me because they exhausted everything. And we just don’t have any clinical trials available, or they’re so weak from the cancer and all the prior treatments that they don’t qualify for a clinical trial. And then I really don’t have anything else to give them.
So, my personal approach is to try to put clinical trials in between and always have something in my back pocket so that if they get a bit exhausted or they want to spend more time with friends and family, they can get the standard of care treatment.
Katherine:
If a patient is interested in participating in a trial, what’s the best way to find out which trials might be available for them and right for them?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, that’s a great question. I think number one is always ask your oncologist, and they’re a great resource. But also, there’s websites. So, for different types of cancer – so, example, I do prostate cancer. So, the Prostate Cancer Foundation or PCF.org is a wonderful resource that will give you a list of cutting-edge trials.
In addition, the government has clinicaltrials.gov. And that’s where you can actually type in your cancer type and different criteria, and you’ll get a list of trials.
Katherine:
That’s good to know. What questions should patients ask their healthcare team when considering joining a trial?
Dr. Subudhi:
I would ask them, “Would you do it yourself if you were in my situation?”
Katherine:
Very good.
Dr. Subudhi:
I think that’s a very important thing to ask.
Katherine:
Are there barriers that interfere with patients’ access to clinical trials? I think you touched on this but maybe if you have anything to add.
Dr. Subudhi:
Yeah. So, travel can be a major barrier. And that’s something that the pharmaceutical industry understands. And, therefore, some of the trials, especially the multicenter trials, actually allow for travel cost. That sometimes includes flights, driving, hotels, food.
So, that’s something that’s important to ask because sometimes when we’re thinking about clinical trials, we’re so anxious in the doctor’s office. And then it’s not until we go back home when we’re trying to figure out how do we get the resources to come so frequently. You’ll find out that’s sometimes travel costs.
The other thing is underrepresented minorities are something that we’ve been doing a relatively poor job recruiting to our clinical trials. Part of that is just from history that we didn’t have the safety rules in place that we do now. And underrepresented minorities were affected negatively in some of the earlier trials.
And the other thing is just the resources of getting to and from their homes to our cancer site as often as they need to because they may be the sole breadwinner in their homes and things like that. So, there are resources to try to help do this. But I still think we have to do a better job.
Katherine:
Can trials be coordinated between a local doc and the institution?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, most trials cannot. Most. But there are some that can. So, if it’s a standard of care treatment, sometimes we can have the safety visits done with the local doctors. But every time they’re going to get the treatment they have to come see us at the institution that is actually running the trial.
But most of the time, what I tell all my patients is, “I want them to have a local doctor.” Because if there’s something that happens in the middle of the night, I want to be able to say, “You’re going to go to this emergency room where this doctor works.” And then when they go there, as soon as they get admitted into the emergency room center, I talk to the ER doctor, and I say, “This is what I want to be done. These are how these drugs work.”
Because they’re not going to know what these experimental drugs are. They’re not available in the community. So, I just think it’s important to have communication, especially for our patients that are out of state. MD Anderson is in Houston, Texas. And Texas is so big that a lot of my patients live six to eight hours away, and they’re still in Texas.
Katherine:
Oh, wow. So, what are your thoughts on what could be done to overcome the barriers that some patients are experiencing? And are there resources available?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, the pharmaceutical companies are putting in more financial resources as well as a diversity resource. And when I say diversity resources, those outreach programs just to make sure that the communities that are underserved are hearing about the clinical trials because if you don’t hear about it you’re never going to join it. So, one thing is just knowledge.
And then, number two, we’re trying to create financial resources. For example, there’s Angel Flight as one example where they will pay for the flight for you. And they’ll put you on maybe a chartered plane or something or a smaller plane to defray the cost of traveling by air. So, there are things out there, but we still need a lot more.
Katherine:
But one thing patients could do is talk to their healthcare team about what resources are available for them.
Dr. Subudhi:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Katherine:
Before we end the program, Dr. Subudhi, I’d like to get your final thoughts. What message do you want to leave the audience with related to clinical trial participation?
Dr. Subudhi:
First of all, thank you for even thinking about it. That’s the one big step. And for those of you who actually take the next step and actually join a clinical trial, again, thank you for being so brave.
I think it’s a gift that you’re giving to other fellow patients with cancer. And it’s also a gift that you’re giving to the scientific and medical community, because we are learning by your participation in the trial. And I want you to know whether the trial worked for you or does not work for you, regardless, we’re going to learn something that’s going to help change outcomes in your cancer.
Katherine:
Dr. Subudhi, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.
Dr. Subudhi:
Well, thank you. I really appreciate it.
Katherine:
And thank you to all of our partners. If you would like to watch this webinar again, there will be a replay available soon. You’ll receive an email when it’s ready.
And don’t forget to take the survey immediately following this webinar. It will help us as we plan programs in the future. To learn more about prostate cancer and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thank you for being with us.
Overcoming Barriers to Quality Prostate Cancer Care
Overcoming Barriers to Quality Prostate Cancer Care from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What barriers can impact access to clinical trials and quality prostate cancer care? Dr. Sumit Subudhi shares helpful advice for addressing these issues by sharing information about financial support, diversity resources, and travel assistance to aid in access to care and clinical trials.
Dr. Sumit Subudhi is an Associate Professor in the Department of Genitourinary Medical Oncology, Division of Cancer Medicine at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Subudhi.
See More From Prostate Clinical Trials 201
Related Resources
Transcript:
Katherine:
Are there barriers that interfere with patients’ access to clinical trials? I think you touched on this but maybe if you have anything to add.
Dr. Subudhi:
Yeah. So, travel can be a major barrier. And that’s something that the pharmaceutical industry understands. And, therefore, some of the trials, especially the multicenter trials, actually allow for travel cost. That sometimes includes flights, driving, hotels, food.
So, that’s something that’s important to ask because sometimes when we’re thinking about clinical trials, we’re so anxious in the doctor’s office. And then it’s not until we go back home when we’re trying to figure out how do we get the resources to come so frequently. You’ll find out that’s sometimes travel costs.
The other thing is underrepresented minorities are something that we’ve been doing a relatively poor job recruiting to our clinical trials. Part of that is just from history that we didn’t have the safety rules in place that we do now. And underrepresented minorities were affected negatively in some of the earlier trials.
And the other thing is just the resources of getting to and from their homes to our cancer site as often as they need to because they may be the sole breadwinner in their homes and things like that. So, there are resources to try to help do this. But I still think we have to do a better job.
Katherine:
Can trials be coordinated between a local doc and the institution?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, most trials cannot. Most. But there are some that can. So, if it’s a standard of care treatment, sometimes we can have the safety visits done with the local doctors. But every time they’re going to get the treatment they have to come see us at the institution that is actually running the trial.
But most of the time, what I tell all my patients is, “I want them to have a local doctor.” Because if there’s something that happens in the middle of the night, I want to be able to say, “You’re going to go to this emergency room where this doctor works.” And then when they go there, as soon as they get admitted into the emergency room center, I talk to the ER doctor, and I say, “This is what I want to be done. These are how these drugs work.”
Because they’re not going to know what these experimental drugs are. They’re not available in the community. So, I just think it’s important to have communication, especially for our patients that are out of state. MD Anderson is in Houston, Texas. And Texas is so big that a lot of my patients live six to eight hours away, and they’re still in Texas.
Katherine:
So, what are your thoughts on what could be done to overcome the barriers that some patients are experiencing? And are there resources available?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, the pharmaceutical companies are putting in more financial resources as well as a diversity resource. And when I say diversity resources, those outreach programs just to make sure that the communities that are underserved are hearing about the clinical trials because if you don’t hear about it you’re never going to join it. So, one thing is just knowledge.
And then, number two, we’re trying to create financial resources. For example, there’s Angel Flight as one example where they will pay for the flight for you. And they’ll put you on maybe a chartered plane or something or a smaller plane to defray the cost of traveling by air. So, there are things out there, but we still need a lot more.
Katherine:
But one thing patients could do is talk to their healthcare team about what resources are available for them.
Dr. Subudhi:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Katherine:
Before we end the program, Dr. Subudhi, I’d like to get your final thoughts. What message do you want to leave the audience with related to clinical trial participation?
Dr. Subudhi:
First of all, thank you for even thinking about it. That’s the one big step. And for those of you who actually take the next step and actually join a clinical trial, again, thank you for being so brave.
I think it’s a gift that you’re giving to other fellow patients with cancer. And it’s also a gift that you’re giving to the scientific and medical community, because we are learning by your participation in the trial. And I want you to know whether the trial worked for you or does not work for you, regardless, we’re going to learn something that’s going to help change outcomes in your cancer.
Prostate Cancer Clinical Trial Safety and Protocols
Prostate Cancer Clinical Trial Safety and Protocols from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
Expert Dr. Sumit Subudhi explains clinical trial safety protocols, the risks of participation, and addresses the patient concern of clinical trials as a last-resort treatment option.
Dr. Sumit Subudhi is an Associate Professor in the Department of Genitourinary Medical Oncology, Division of Cancer Medicine at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Subudhi.
See More From Prostate Clinical Trials 201
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Understanding Prostate Cancer Clinical Trial Phases and Types |
What Should Prostate Cancer Patients Know About Clinical Trials? |
Tools for Choosing the Right Prostate Cancer Treatment Approach |
Transcript:
Katherine:
Patients also often have questions about safety. So, what are the risks of clinical trial participation?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, safety is a major issue, especially more into the Phase I. The Phase I trial, if you remember, are the trials where we’re dose escalating, meaning we start off with a small cohort of patients, maybe three to five patients. And we give one dose of the drug. We see if it’s safe. If it’s safe, then we go to the next dosing level. And we just keep going until we find a dose that may be too toxic or too unsafe for our patient.
So, in the Phase I, we have less information, especially in the first-in-human drugs. But in those cases, we are watching you carefully to make sure that nothing bad happens to you.
But the problem with those trials is it requires a lot of time at the institution or with your doctor. For example, I’m doing a bispecific trial where we have to keep the patients inside the hospital for eight days, purely for safety reasons. They’re not getting the drug for all eight days. But we’re just keeping them under observation so in case anything bad happens we’re ready to react because we know that if something bad happens at their home in that first eight days, it could actually risk their lives.
So, in those cases, some trials, if we’re concerned about safety, you’ll be spending more time in the doctor’s office or in a hospital being evaluated. So, that’s the one negative. But sometimes, the trials that can be more exhausting as far as the amount of time it takes you away from your home and family are the ones that have the most reward.
Katherine:
Well, then it’s a tossup, isn’t it?
Dr. Subudhi:
That’s right.
Katherine:
You have to decide what’s more important.
Dr. Subudhi:
That’s correct.
Katherine:
Well, what protocols are in place to protect patients?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, when they sign up for a protocol, we are instructed to give them our best information. So, let’s say it’s a first-in-human drug. Well, usually, first-in-human drugs are tested in other mammals, such as monkeys, and we look for toxicities there. And we have signs of what’s going to happen. Sometimes, a first-in-human drug is part of a class of drugs, like I talked to you about T-cell bispecifics.
Well, there’s several T-cell bispecifics out there. And we’ve learned that this class of drugs has a unique set of side effects that they all tend to have. Some have it more, and some have it less.
But when we’re discussing this with you or the patient, we are actually going to go through each and all of these side effects. Now, me personally, my patients that go on my trials, they all get my cellphone number so they have 24/7 access to me because I know they’re taking a risk. And it’s a lot of courage to go on these trials. And it’s scary. And I want to make sure they don’t feel like they’re ever alone.
Katherine:
Another common concern we hear is that a clinical trial is only considered when there are no other treatment options available for a patient. What are your thoughts on this?
Dr. Subudhi:
There’s a lot of my colleagues in the field that feel that way. And I know a lot of patients’ misconceptions are also that way. And that’s partly because of Hollywood and movies and TV shows that we watch. But I think that many people, especially in the medical field, think of clinical trials as the last resort.
And I actually disagree with that. I think that I like to actually start my patients with one or two standard of care treatments. But after that, really start putting clinical trials in between. And we have to remember that there’s not always a clinical trial available that the patient actually meets the criteria for.
So, it’s always disheartening in clinic when I meet someone for the very first time who was referred to me because they exhausted everything. And we just don’t have any clinical trials available, or they’re so weak from the cancer and all the prior treatments that they don’t qualify for a clinical trial. And then I really don’t have anything else to give them.
So, my personal approach is to try to put clinical trials in between and always have something in my back pocket so that if they get a bit exhausted or they want to spend more time with friends and family, they can get the standard of care treatment.
Understanding Prostate Cancer Clinical Trial Phases and Types
Understanding Prostate Cancer Clinical Trial Phases and Types from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
How do prostate cancer clinical trials work? Dr. Sumit Subudhi shares what happens in each clinical trial phase and explains the function of open-label clinical trials, controlled clinical trials, randomized clinical trials, and double-blind randomized clinical trials.
Dr. Sumit Subudhi is an Associate Professor in the Department of Genitourinary Medical Oncology, Division of Cancer Medicine at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Subudhi.
See More From Prostate Clinical Trials 201
Related Resources
What Should Prostate Cancer Patients Know About Clinical Trials? |
Tools for Choosing the Right Prostate Cancer Treatment Approach |
Transcript:
Katherine:
I’d like to define some clinical trial terminology to help patients further understand the process. Let’s start with the phases. What occurs during each phase?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, great question. Phase I is the safety phase. So, all we’re trying to do is find the right dose of the drug that is actually safe to give in the patients. And we’re looking for the maximum tolerated dose. And once we find that dose, then we use that dose to go to Phase II of the trial. And Phase II trials are looking at efficacy. So, looking to see whether the trial is giving you any clinical benefit, meaning the cancer’s shrinking or even disappearing.
Katherine:
Go on.
Dr. Subudhi:
And then the third phase is Phase III where you’re testing the current drug, experimental drug, to either standard of care or to a placebo to see whether or not you get a benefit, either a progression-free survival benefit or overall survival benefit. And so, those are the three phases of clinical trials.
Katherine:
What are the different types of clinical trials?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, they’re controlled trials. Actually, I should back up. So, there’s open-label trials where everyone that enrolls in the trial will get the experimental drug. So, there is no control arms in these trials. Then there is the control trials where you can either get the drug, or you may get a placebo or standard of care drug.
There are some trials that allow for crossover, meaning that if you’re in the placebo or standard of care arm, if your cancer progresses, you can actually cross over and get the experimental drug. But I just want to be clear that not all clinical trials have crossover. And if you’re in a control trial, I think that’s an important question to ask your doctors about that.
But the reason why we do the control trials is that we’ve learned that using historical controls – for example, we’re doing a lot of combination studies with chemotherapy, such as docetaxel (Taxotere), which was FDA-approved in 2004. So, if we’re using historical data from almost 20 years ago, it’s not the same thing as our patients that are being treated with docetaxel now, because their treatment landscape has changed so much, and our patients have changed so much.
And so, for that reason, control trials give us a better sense of how effective this experimental drug is doing as opposed to comparing it to a historical perspective.
Katherine:
What other types of clinical trials are available?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, there are a few other options. So, we talked about open-label where everyone’s guaranteed to get the drug. We talked about a controlled study where you will either get one drug or another. And another type is a randomized trial where a computer decides whether or not you’re going to actually get one drug versus another. It’s not your doctor because a lot of people think that I’m making that decision, and I’m not. It’s actually a random computer.
And some trials have 1:1 ratio, meaning a 50 percent chance that you’ll get the experimental drug versus the control drug. But other trials have 1:2 ratio or 1:3 ratio. So, that’s something that, again, you have to ask your physician of how these trials are being randomized.
Katherine:
Well, in a randomized clinical trial, the patient isn’t going to know what drug they’re being given.
Dr. Subudhi:
Actually, that’s not true.
Katherine:
Oh, it’s not.
Dr. Subudhi:
So, you bring up a great question. So, there’s a double-blind randomized clinical trial where not only the patient doesn’t know, but even the physicians and the nurses. No one except for the pharmaceutical company that’s running the trial actually knows who’s actually getting which drug. And it’s only towards the end of the trial that we unblind, and then we share that information. Well, the pharmaceutical company first shares it with the medical team who then shares it with the patient.
Katherine:
Are there other common clinical trial terms that you think patients should know about and understand?
Dr. Subudhi:
I think for now those are…
Katherine:
…they’re the most important?
Dr. Subudhi:
I think to me those are the most important. And I think that sometimes too much information can bog us down.
Katherine:
Well, speaking of information, there is a lot out there, some of which may not be very reliable. And that could lead many patients to having misconceptions about clinical trials. Let’s walk through a few common concerns we’ve heard from our community about trials.
One frequent question is – will I receive a placebo instead of a real treatment? And, first, I’d like you to define placebo. And should this be a concern for patients?
Dr. Subudhi:
Right. So, placebo is a drug that looks similar to the experimental drug. For example, if the experimental drug is a blue pill, then the placebo will be a blue pill. But it will be a pill that should have no known biological activity.
If the experimental drug is given intravenously and you get it in a liquid bag, then the placebo will also come in a liquid bag. So, it will look the same. And that’s why both the medical team as well as the patients or their families will not know which drug the patients have received, meaning the experimental drug or the placebo. But the placebos are meant to not have any biological activity.
Katherine:
So, it shouldn’t be a concern to patients then.
Dr. Subudhi:
Well, the concern that most of my patients share with me when they hear about placebo-controlled trials is, “Well, if I’m not going to get the experimental drug, why should I do this? I mean what benefit does it have for me?” And so, I tell them that one of the benefits is that we are watching you very carefully.
Because we don’t know sometimes which drug you’re getting. But in some control trials, like a randomized control trial, we will know because I’m not blinded.
If you’re in the arm that’s only getting chemotherapy, well, you know you’re not getting an oral pill. So, it’s very clear to the patient what they’re getting. But if they’re getting an oral pill that’s a placebo, we’re watching them very carefully.
So, we’re watching the patients very carefully in these placebo-controlled trials. And they’re coming in often so that we’re not going to miss any devastating things happening from the cancer. In fact, we’ll pick it up earlier than if they were just getting a standard of care outside of a trial. And for that reason I tell that my patients, “Don’t be worried.” And I always make sure that I have a backup plan.
So, the backup plan is either they’re going to cross over, meaning the trial allows for them to cross over to get the experimental drug. Or I have another trial that I know that they will qualify for. Or the third alternative is that I actually have a standard of care drug that I’m ready to give them the second I have it so that they don’t have to have those concerns.
What Should Prostate Cancer Patients Know About Clinical Trials?
What Should Prostate Cancer Patients Know About Clinical Trials? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
Clinical trials may be intimidating to some prostate cancer patients, so what do they need to know to address their concerns? Dr. Sumit Subudhi explains clinical trials and discusses the benefits of participation.
Dr. Sumit Subudhi is an Associate Professor in the Department of Genitourinary Medical Oncology, Division of Cancer Medicine at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Subudhi.
See More From Prostate Clinical Trials 201
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Transcript:
Katherine:
Prostate cancer research really can only move forward through clinical trials and patient participation in those trials. Can you briefly explain what a trial is for people who may not be familiar with the term?
Dr. Subudhi:
That’s a great question. My own father has prostate cancer. And he had the same exact question when he started his journey in that.
And so, what I explained to him is that clinical trials are experiments. They’re experiments that are done in our patients.
So, they’re drugs that are thought to mechanistically kill the cancer cell or at least change the environment around the cancer cell to help people live longer. But these drugs were actually tested in mouse models or in tissue models. And we don’t know if they actually work in patients.
And so, in clinical trials, we’re actually testing whether these drugs are safe and whether they’re efficacious or beneficial to our patients. So, I want to be very clear. When patients go on clinical trials, we don’t know if it’s going to work on them. And that’s something that they should know that they’re showing a lot of courage and risk in joining these trials.
But the other point I want to make is that every standard of care drug that is out there actually went through the clinical trial process, and they were approved because they showed benefit in a group of patients.
Katherine:
Well, how can a prostate cancer patient benefit from participating in a trial?
Dr. Subudhi:
One of the key benefits is that you get access to drugs that may actually prolong your life or even cure you and that you wouldn’t have access to in trials.
And so, some of my patients, unfortunately, they’ve exhausted all the standard of care choices that are out there. And the trial’s the only option left versus leaving it up to natural causes of demise from prostate cancer. And so, clinical trials give other opportunities to potentially live longer and have a great quality of life.
Katherine:
So, they could offer some hope.
Dr. Subudhi:
Definitely. As far as I’m concerned, yes. And, actually, with my patients, I try to not wait while they’ve exhausted all the treatments to start them on clinical trials, because I feel like we may be able to save some of these treatments in our back pocket for when they’re too exhausted to be coming to our clinic so often. And so, I like to actually try to get them enrolled in clinical trials early on in their journey with prostate cancer.
What Prostate Cancer Research Is Showing Promise?
What Prostate Cancer Research Is Showing Promise? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What areas of prostate cancer research are showing promise? Expert Dr. Sumit Subudhi explains ongoing research and shares an overview of prostate cancer treatment classes in development.
Dr. Sumit Subudhi is an Associate Professor in the Department of Genitourinary Medical Oncology, Division of Cancer Medicine at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Subudhi.
See More From Prostate Clinical Trials 201
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Transcript:
Katherine:
I’d like to begin with an update on prostate cancer research. Would you walk us through the newer classes of treatments that are showing promise?
Dr. Subudhi:
Yeah, in clinical trials, there are classes of drugs known as androgen receptor degraders. And so, the androgen receptor is a protein that basically is the mouth of the prostate cancer. That’s how I like to describe it. And it actually allows testosterone, which is the food, to be eaten by the mouth, and it actually helps the cancer grow.
And what these drugs do is they actually degrade or break down the mouth of the cancer. And, therefore, it starves the cancer to death, and that’s actually the concept. And they seem to be showing some exciting activity in clinical trials, especially in those patients who are resistant to the second-generation hormonal drug that you may have heard of already, such as enzalutamide (Xtandi), apalutamide (Erleada), and darolutamide (Nubeqa). So, I think is something that we’re looking forward to seeing more data on.
Another class of drugs are antibody drug conjugates or ADCs.
And these are what I think of as heat-seeking missiles. So, one part of the drug actually recognizes the cancer, and the other part of the drug actually has a payload that sort of releases a bomb or sort of like chemotherapy-type agent right where the cancer’s located and kills the cancer in that way. And we’re seeing some great clinical activity in prostate cancer with this class of drugs.
And then the final one is bispecifics, and in particular T-cell bispecifics. So, T cells are part of the immune system that actually help kill the cancer.
And, unfortunately, prostate cancer, like some other cancers like pancreatic and glioblastoma, have few T cells inside it. And, therefore, a lot of the immunotherapies that many people have heard about, such as ipilimumab (Yervoy) and pembrolizumab (Keytruda), they’re not very responsive in patients with prostate cancer. And it’s because there’s few T cells in prostate cancer.
What the T-cell bispecifics do is they actually have one part of the drug that actually recognizes the cancer and the other part that recognizes T-cells. So, like a bulldozer, it brings T cells right into the prostate cancer and helps kill the cancer that way.
Katherine:
Now there are some inhibitors as well. Is that correct?
Dr. Subudhi:
Yeah. So, the immune checkpoint inhibitors have been around for a while. And, basically, in combination, they seem to be more effective in prostate cancer. But when given alone as monotherapy, they’re less effective.
Katherine:
Are these treatments specifically for patients with advanced prostate cancer?
Dr. Subudhi:
All of them are actually in trials in patients with advanced prostate cancer. And I define advanced prostate cancer as either having metastatic disease, meaning the cancer has spread to other parts of the body outside of the prostate.
Examples include lymph node, the bone, the lung, the liver. But there are so few trials in patients with locally advanced prostate cancer. What I mean by that is they have high-grade prostate cancer, but it’s local, or it’s just in regional lymph nodes. And some of these classes of drugs are being evaluated in that setting as well.
Katherine:
Let’s shift to talk about your research. What are you excited about right now?
Dr. Subudhi:
So, my research focuses on immune checkpoint therapies, which are the inhibitors that you were referring to and understanding how to make them work better in prostate cancer.
And we’re finding out that in prostate cancer there’s about 20 to 25 percent of patients that appear to respond to this type of treatment. But these are patients that don’t have a lot of bone metastases. And these immune checkpoint inhibitors are given in combination. So, they’re not given alone. They’re given with either a combination of anti-CD34 and anti-PD-1 or some other form of that.
Ask the Prostate Cancer Expert: How Is Prostate Cancer Diagnosis and Treatment Evolving?
Ask the Prostate Cancer Expert: How Is Prostate Cancer Diagnosis and Treatment Evolving? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
What should prostate cancer patients, care partners, and underserved patients know about? Watch as expert Dr. Yaw Nyame from the University of Washington shares insight about prostate cancer detection, screening guidelines, specific concerns for Black men, support groups, and clinical trials to work toward better health outcomes for all.
See More From Best Prostate Cancer Care No Matter Where You Live
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Transcript:
Sherea Cary:
Hello, we are here with Dr. Nyame. I have a few questions for you. Dr. Nyame, how has prostate cancer evolved over the last decade regarding the onset of the disease, the population in which it impacts the care and the treatment?
Dr. Nyame:
You know, prostate cancer is the most common cancer in men that is in a solid organ. It affects about one in nine men over their lifetime, and probably the biggest advance or change we’ve seen in the disease occurred in the late ‘80s with the introduction of the PSA test. What that allows us to do is detect cancers very early in their natural life history, if you will, and that gives us the opportunity really to provide treatment when there’s…with an opportunity for cure. The downside to that is not all prostate cancers are the same, we know that some prostate cancers are diseases that men will die with and not from…meaning that some of these cancers that we detect don’t need any treatment or intervention. This means that a lot of research that has occurred in the last decade or two has been focused on helping us determine which cancers deserve treatment and which ones we can watch safely and so some of the biggest advances have been diagnostic tests such as radiology imaging, so we’ve seen things like MRI really come into the mainstay of prostate cancer diagnosis and treatment upfront. We have very exciting nuclear medicine scans.
So, you might hear the term PSM-A as a new test that’s really going to disrupt and change the way the prostate cancer diagnosis and treatment is made. We also have genetic testing that we can do on blood samples, urine samples, and tissue, that might give us some very exciting information about one’s risk of dying from prostate cancer, which ultimately is what we want to know when we’re offering treatment to someone.
Sherea Cary:
Thank you. What screening test or risk-reducing care would you suggest for men who have a family history of prostate cancer, and at what age should screening begin for specific populations?
Dr. Nyame:
Unfortunately, there is no data, rigorous data to help answer this question, but we know that men that have a high risk of developing prostate cancer benefit from earlier testing with PSA. We know this from a variety of studies, including some modeling studies, which we have done here at the Fred Hutch Cancer Center at the University of Washington. When I talk about high-risk groups, it really falls into two categories, men who have a strong family history and a strong family history means a first-degree relative, father, brother, grandfather that has prostate cancer.
But when we look at the genetics of prostate cancer it’s not just about prostate cancer itself, what we have found is that things that lead to family histories of breast cancer, ovarian cancer, colon cancer also increase your risk of prostate cancer, for instance, the BRCA gene, which is a breast cancer gene is associated with a marked increased risk of prostate cancer. So, knowing your family history matters and knowing it beyond prostate cancer is important. The other high-risk group as men of African descent or ancestry, we know our black men have a much higher risk of developing prostate cancer in their lifetime, it’s about a one in six or one in seven risk compared to one in nine in the general population. So, the recommendation I make for these two groups is to consider screening earlier and to do it more frequently. On average, PSA screening happens for men between the ages of 55 and 70 or 74, and it’s usually every two years, if you look at the population level data, I would suggest that you consider screening at age 45 or 40 and doing it every year, however, you’ve got to turn the screening off at some point. So, if your PSA stays low and is non-concerning into your early 70s, then I think you can be reassured that your risk of having a fatal or aggressive cancer is low, and you could safely stop screening.
Sherea Cary:
Thank you. So, for someone who has a first degree relative such as a father who had prostate cancer and maybe even an aggressive form of prostate cancer, it will be important for them to get screened at 40 to start at least having a baseline number to be able to watch it?
Dr. Nyame:
Absolutely. The baseline number is really a topic of discussion in the urologic community because we know that if you get a PSA at age 40 and its above one or above the median for your age group, that you’re a lifetime risk of having what we call significant cancer, so that’s a cancer that might have the potential to be fatal in your lifetime is higher, and so theoretically, you could get that one-time PSA at 40 and use that as a basis for how intense your screening practice would be. I’ve talked about PSA testing, but screening also involves the digital rectal exam, and it’s important that men understand that both those things together is what leads to a thorough and good clinical evaluation, when it comes to prostate cancer risk.
Sherea Cary:
Thank you so much for sharing the information about the BRCA gene as well. I’ve heard information about the BRCA gene, but I always hear it in relation to women, I’ve never heard it in relation to a connection with prostate cancer.
That is very interesting to know. What does a multi-discipline approach to prostate cancer look like?
Dr. Nyame:
Well, when you think about prostate cancer and how it’s diagnosed and how it’s treated, you’re talking about a process that involves a team, the process often starts with your primary care physician, he or she may order a PSA test, which will prompt a biopsy if it’s positive, so that’s the step one is that relationship you have with your primary care physician. Step two is going to be your urologist, that’s the person that’s going to do your biopsy, and if you are diagnosed with prostate cancer that person in conjunction with your primary care physician is then going to be leading this process of, do we actively watch your cancer because it’s a low risk, or do we seek treatment because it’s localized, meaning it’s in the prostate and we can still get your treatment with curative intent as we call it, or has it spread? And in that case, your options for a doctor is different on the watch side, you’re probably looking at a urologist who’s watching closely, on the localized side, you’re going to talk to maybe a radiation specialist or a urologist because both treatments are equal and their effectiveness from cancer treatment.
But they have different side effects. And I think to get good information about what treatment is best for you, you should see both, and then on the advanced side, you’re talking about medical oncologist that’s going to help navigate all of the various treatments that we have now for stage IV prostate cancer, and even in that setting, you might still find yourself considering a clinical trial with someone like a urologist or getting radiation treatment, which can be standard of care in select patients that have stage IV cancer. So as you can see, it is a very wide range of individuals that are helping take care of your cancer, and that’s just on the treatment side, that’s not talking about any of the other supportive services that you may need that may exist either in your community or in your health systems where you’re getting treated, and those can include patient navigators, social workers, the various nursing services, nutritionists, there’s a lot of people that you may want to put on your team as you’re considering your care.
Sherea Cary:
Thank you. So, some people may consider prostate cancer a couples’ disease. What advice would you give to a care partner? My father was a prostate cancer survivor, my mother was very supportive of him, but I took much of the lead as far as being his caregiver and coordinating things between my father, his doctor’s appointments, and with my siblings.
Do you believe that support people, caregivers, such as children, are able to also assist in receiving care?
Dr. Nyame:
Absolutely. The data is overwhelming in this scenario, patients who are partnered or have strong social support do better, and I always say that the patients who have the best outcomes when it comes to cancer, have someone like you, Sherea in their life. It’s not surprising, given the burden of cancer treatment, that having someone that can help navigate all the aspects of your care and be there to support you leads to better outcomes and better satisfaction with the treatments that you choose, a cancer diagnosis, especially prostate cancer diagnosis, a disease that has a very high cure rate, has a very long lifespan, but has really life-altering potential consequences of the treatments you received, has an impact on what we return your survivorship. So how do you live with your cancer, and so the individuals that are there to support you through that journey are absolutely critical.
Sherea Cary:
Thank you. What differences do you see in terms of aggressiveness for cancers in different… Various populations?
Dr. Nyame:
This is an area of research that for me, is trying to understand why certain populations have more aggressive or worse outcomes when it comes to prostate cancer.
The most obvious example of this here in the United States is for black men. Black men are more likely to be diagnosed with prostate cancer each year, so about 70% more likely to be diagnosed and they are twice as likely to die from prostate cancer as men of other races in the United States. If you look at what the natural history of prostate cancer and Black men looks like, meaning if you were to chart from diagnosis through the course of the disease, does it look different for black men? The answer is yes,, it appears of Black men get prostate cancer when they’re younger, and there’s data to suggest that perhaps Black men get more aggressive prostate cancer because they’re more likely to progress from the localized or treatable disease to stage IV aggressive disease that can’t be treated. We don’t understand what the drivers of that are for a long time, the medical community has suggested that it’s all biology, and by that may be an inherited biology, but we know that health disparities really carry a significant social contribution, and in fact, I like to say that social and environmental factors inform biology too, and so if we see something biologic that explains these trends, it doesn’t mean that that’s the way they were born, it might mean that you put someone in a community that lives near a highway with high pollution or does not have access to clean water or lives in a state of high stress or over security, we don’t know what the biologic manifestations of those types of experiences are, but that perhaps is the reason why we see our communities of color, especially our Black men, experiencing a higher burden of prostate cancer.
Sherea Cary:
So, is there a push to have African-American men tested earlier with the PSA test, since it appears that they may get prostate cancer earlier?
Dr. Nyame:
The U.S. Preventative Services Task Force, which makes a recommendation to the medical community about prostate cancer screening states that they cannot make a specific recommendation about screening in black men and other high-risk populations like men with a strong family history of prostate cancer, because those men were not included in the clinical trials that have looked at the efficacy of PSA testing for screening.
Unfortunately, black men make up 3 percent or less of participants in the two screening trials that have informed whether there’s a benefit to PSA testing, which there has been shown to be a 20 percent decrease in dying from prostate cancer if you get screened. We recently took data from the screening trials and superimposed them on real-world data from our surveillance apparatus for cancer in the United States, and what we found was that if you did lower the age of screening in Black men from age 55 to 45, that you did decrease the risk of dying from prostate cancer significantly. It is our hope that this type of research will encourage the U.S. Preventative Services Task Force and other medical societies to reconsider their screening recommendation for black men, ultimately, whatever, if there is a recommendation made to screen at younger ages, I think we need to be conscientious and evaluate what the impact is on the ground, so that if there is a time where we need to reverse a recommendation like that because it’s potentially harmful, that we consider that, but I feel strongly sitting here today that we do need to advocate for earlier screening and Black men.
Sherea Cary:
What advice do you have for prostate cancer patients about locating a clinical trial. Where can you find one?
Dr. Nyame:
Clinical trials tend to happen at the big cancer centers and the big academic university centers, although many of those programs will have affiliate partners out in the community. The easiest way to learn about clinical trials is to start by asking the physician that’s treating you for your prostate cancer, oftentimes, they’ll have resources and connections to the trials directly or are the people who are administering them; however, other great sources are going to be patient advocacy networks, and there are many of them for prostate cancer, there’s one… There are several, I’ll start naming a few. They have the Prostate Cancer Foundation, you have Us TOO, you have zero cancer, you have a PHEN, Prostate Health Education Network, which is an advocacy group for black men with prostate cancer. So these are all great sources of finding out what clinical trials exist, and in addition, you can just get on the Internet and Google if that’s something you have access to, the trick is navigating all the information, and I think knowing what trials are available for you, whether you qualify, that kind of thing can be difficult, and that’s ultimately where finding a provider, whether it’s your direct urologists or radiation oncologist or whoever is helping treat your prostate cancer, either them directly or sometimes seeking a second opinion, and going to a place where you might find someone who has some expertise in trials, if that’s something that you’re interested in.
Sherea Cary:
My father participated in a clinical trial, it was going on, I think the time of his treatment, and it was offered to us, and he was at a big facility here in Houston that offered…ask him if he wanted to participate. We did a lot of research. We said we’d try it. And we were glad to be able to participate. I participated in clinical trials also for different health conditions, ’cause I believe it’s important that we have to participate in order for our people to gather the information that’s necessary. So thank you for that.
Dr. Nyame:
Absolutely, you know I think there are a lot of reasons that we think that our black community, for instance, may not participate in a clinical trial given the history of medical experimentation and various forms of abuse that have existed in our history, but what I recently heard from our partner of our community partners at PHEN, when they surveyed black men about prosecutor clinical trials, was that although there was some concern about trust in the history, that the overwhelming majority of the men wanted to participate, but they never were asked, and that’s really stuck with me, and I think that black men are under-represented in clinical trials, and we have to find ways to be more inclusive and understand what barriers might exist into participation so that we can have that data to care better for the population.
Sherea Cary:
Thank you so much for spending time with us today. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Expert Perspective on the Future of Prostate Cancer Treatment and Research
Expert Perspective on the Future of Prostate Cancer Treatment and Research from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
How has prostate cancer treatment and research changed over time? Expert Dr. Maha Hussain shares her perspective about treatment and research progress, the role of the patient, and how to advocate for more research progress in the future.
Dr. Maha Hussain is the Deputy Director of the Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center of Northwestern University. Learn more about this expert here.
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Transcript:
Katherine:
Dr. Hussain, how do you feel about the future or prostate cancer research, and what would you like patients to know?
Dr. Hussain:
First, let me say that I would love for the patients to know that they are a partner, a most critical partner in the process.
That we need to continue the research and investment in research. It is research that will end up curing cancer. Wishful thinking will not do it. And patient volunteering, which I think is remarkable across all cancers. The business I’m in, the way that drug discovery and evolution often happen because patients volunteered. And without testing these new treatments and combinations, we will not be able to get better results.
And I will tell you that, when I started my training, the median survival for patients with resistant prostate cancer was on the magnitude of about nine months. Now it is three years-plus. Now, you could argue, well, that’s not huge. But that is a huge change because, again, we’re picking up the cancers much earlier. And the patients who had, as I mentioned, metastatic disease, again, the longevity then at the time I was in training, but even afterwards, was give and take in the three years. And now we’re talking six-plus years.
And so, there’s been tremendous progress. And really partnership with the patients and their families and supportive others is very critical, and investment in research. So, yes, advocate constantly for more investment in research.
How Does Genetic Testing Impact Prostate Cancer Care?
How Does Genetic Testing Impact Prostate Cancer Care? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.
Genetic testing has taken on a vital role in prostate cancer care. Expert Dr. Maha Hussain provides insight about genetics and biomarker testing, how results are used in determining treatment options, and key questions to ask to ensure the best care.
Dr. Maha Hussain is the Deputy Director of the Robert H. Lurie Comprehensive Cancer Center of Northwestern University. Learn more about this expert here.
See More From INSIST! Prostate Cancer
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How Do Genetic Mutations Impact Prostate Cancer Treatment Options |
Transcript:
Katherine:
Many patients are confused about the role of genetics and biomarker testing in prostate cancer care.
For people who haven’t heard of some of these terms before, let’s go into the definitions. So, what is genomic or biomarker testing, first of all?
Dr. Hussain:
So, I think there’s one thing. Maybe I can explain because the wording can be confusing. So, there is the genetics, and there is the genomics. The genetics would be what we inherit from our families. So, this would be present in our body. The genomics testing would be to look for what the structure of the genes of the cancer itself, cancer cells itself. Now, that doesn’t mean that this was inherited. It’s just that this is a renegade, and it evolved. And that is what is going to show up.
The reason these two are important, both of them have implications potentially for treatment or perhaps clinical trials. And again, with the PARP inhibitors, the BRCA-like genes will have implications for treatment sort of for resistance cancers.
With regard to the genetics, the implications are for, again, inheritance of family and potential risk for blood relatives. Now, there are panels that are FDA-approved for the purpose of genetic testing. And the requirement or the indications right now, anybody who presents with metastatic disease or an aggressive disease and diagnosis, the recommendation is to proceed with the genetic testing, certainly counseling and testing, because there are some people who prefer not to be tested. And that’s something else.
What I tell my patients is this, even if the testing is done and it was negative for inherited genes that might put the patient family at potential higher risk, the fact that a person has prostate cancer by default puts potential, adds risks to family, to blood relatives.
And the risks aren’t just for the males with regard to prostate cancer, but certainly breast cancer, ovarian cancer, pancreatic cancer potentially, and things of that sort. So, this is where I think a patient needs to be discussing with their doctors. And certainly, there are many centers that have genetics counselor, and so that’s where I generally refer my patients to. I counsel them myself, and then refer them also for more discussions with genetics counselor.
Katherine:
What exactly are genetic mutations? And how do they impact a treatment path?
Dr. Hussain:
Well, I think, again, it’s the changes that happens in specific genes that may promote the aggressiveness of a cancer. And so, the BRCA gene is one of the oldest genes that have been identified in breast cancer. And essentially, the body regulates itself.
And when cancer cells come up and they sort of – the body no longer sustains that regulation, the genetic regulation in those cancer cells. Those cancer cells will behave the way they want to. That means that they’re going to grow faster. That means they could be resistant to treatment and things like that. And so, that’s what we check for, these alterations. And there are certain medications that would allow – and again, in prostate cancer, it’s not a lot. It’s just, as I said, right now the only things that are proven is the PARP inhibitors. This is essentially to kind of gang over the cancer cell, preventing from allowing it to repair itself so it can continue to grow.
Katherine:
Some patients may not know if they’ve received these important tests. So, for patients that aren’t all that sure, what key questions should they be asking their physician or their specialist?
Dr. Hussain:
So, I would say when it comes to the genetics testing, I believe a patient has to consent.
Because again, we live in the U.S., and this is a private matter for the patient. So, this generally has to be the case. Otherwise, depending on the institution, sometimes some tests will require for the overall testing for looking for any genetic alterations, general tumor alternation. Different centers have different things. But the patient should ask and say to their doctor, “Have my cancer genes been tested? Have my genes been tested? And if they have, what are the results?” Because we generally share with the patients once it’s been done.
The other things I should point out, some of the good things that have happened recently. Up until recently, when it comes to the tumor genomic testing, tissue was required. Nowadays, the FDA has approved blood tests that several companies now run that can actually collect blood sample and basically test it for circulating tumor cell genes there.
Now, no testing is 100 percent perfect. But in situations like patients with prostate cancer who may not have recent tissue or adequate tissue for testing, certainly doing the blood test to verify if there is anything reflective of the genes of the cancer, and that may allow for potential actionable-type treatments. Again, up until now, this is more going to apply for potential clinical trials or resistant metastatic disease.