Tag Archive for: bone marrow biopsy

Dr. Akriti Jain: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients?

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Why is it important to empower patients? Expert Dr. Akriti Jain from Cleveland Clinic discusses her methods of educating and empowering her patients and how empowerment sets patients on their path to optimal cancer care.
 

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MPN Care Barriers | Gaps in Patient-Centered Care

MPN Care Barriers | Gaps in Patient-Centered Care

 MPN Treatment Barriers | Impacts and Solutions for Healthcare Providers

MPN Treatment Barriers | Impacts and Solutions for Healthcare Providers

 Kimberly Smith: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients?

Kimberly Smith: Why Is It Important for You to Empower Patients?

Transcript:

Dr. Akriti Jain:

Empowering my patients is very important to me because I want to make sure when a patient leaves my clinic appointment they have a basic understanding of the disease that we’re fighting together. I try to explain to them basic understanding of how a bone marrow functions, where it is present, it’s in their long bones, and then draw them a chicken scratch of what MDS is and what MPN is, what a myeloproliferative neoplasm actually entails, how it is diagnosed, print them out their bone marrow biopsy reports so that they understand where the pathologist is seeing the issues.

And this is, again, very important because if a patient understands what they’re fighting, what we’re fighting together, they’re more likely to pay attention, they’re more likely to be more compliant, they’re more likely to adhere to what you recommend, get those lab tests, come to their visits, take the medications, and call you if they have concerns or questions.

Elevate | Expert Advice for Accessing Quality AML Care and Treatment

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How can you access the best care and treatment for YOUR AML? Dr. Daniel Pollyea, an AML expert, discusses the importance of patient education, including understanding the available treatment options for AML, how test results may impact care, and he shares advice for advocating for yourself.
 
Dr. Daniel Pollyea is Clinical Director of Leukemia Services in the Division of Medical Oncology, Hematologic Malignancies and Blood and Marrow Transplant at University of Colorado Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Pollyea.
 

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Choosing Therapy | How Are AML Treatment Goals Determined?

Choosing Therapy | How Are AML Treatment Goals Determined?

 Expert Overview | AML Treatment Options and Phases of Therapy

Expert Overview | AML Treatment Options and Phases of Therapy

 What Are AML Inhibitor Therapies and How Do They Work? 

What Are AML Inhibitor Therapies and How Do They Work?

Transcript: 

Katherine Banwell:

Hello and welcome, I’m your host Katherine Banwell. Thanks for joining us for another webinar in the Patient Empowerment Network’s Elevate Series. The goal of these programs is to help AML patients and care partners feel educated and informed when making decisions with their healthcare team.  

Before we get into the discussion, please remember that program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Well, let’s meet our guest today. Joining us is Dr. Daniel Pollyea. Welcome. Thank you so much for being with us. Would you introduce yourself?  

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Yes, thanks so much for having me. I’m Dan Pollyea and I work at the University of Colorado where I lead the leukemia team.  

Katherine Banwell:

Thank you so much for joining us today. As part of this new series we’re learning more about researchers like you. You’re on the frontlines of advancing AML care. What led you here and why is it important to you? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

I think my path is everyone’s, is distinct and a bit different.  

In short, I think working in AML is one of the most exciting areas in medicine that a person can be in right now. It’s this incredible intersection between delivering potentially curative treatments to patients and sort of harnessing the most unbelievable research-driven sort of drug development, new therapies to patients. So, it’s just a really, really exciting time for all of us who work in the AML field because of all that those opportunities bring to bear. 

Katherine Banwell:

Let’s start by having you define AML for the audience. 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

AML, acute myeloid leukemia, it’s a type of a cancer.  You can think of it as a cancer of the bone marrow, and it’s the likely result of several abnormalities, or sometimes I call them mistakes that can occur in stem cells or a stem cell in the bone marrow. And those mistakes that occur, most times, we don’t understand why they happen.

In most cases, they’re completely out of a person’s control. This isn’t something that comes on because it runs in a family in most cases, or because of something somebody did or didn’t do. These appear to be pretty random events that occur. But these mutations that occur in these sort of stem cells in the bone marrow cause a cell to become a cancer cell.  

And over a course of a variable amount of time, these can evolve and develop into this condition, AML. 

Katherine Banwell:

Okay, thank you for that. Health literacy, which is defined by the ability to find, understand, and use information for health-related decisions, is essential. Would you expand on the term “health literacy” and why it’s important to accessing quality AML care? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Yeah. So, I think health literacy in our field is a challenge, because these are acute conditions that come on oftentimes very quickly. And these are not diseases that are top of mind. Most people don’t know somebody who’s had this. They’re not common; only about 30,000 people every year in the United States will have AML. So, it’s very hard to have any sort of background in this.  

And for most patients because of the pace at which this disease occurs, it can be very difficult to sort of read up on it before meeting with a provider or an expert or a specialist. So, there’s a lot of challenges or barriers to health literacy. But like anything, the more a person knows, the more sort of empowered they can be, the more ability they have to ask questions and seek care at sort of the optimal place.  

What I find often is that health literacy is best harnessed by a patient’s team; so, in other words, their support system, their family and friends. Because it’s so much to deal with in such rapid succession, to get this diagnosis and to usually be feeling very poorly. To also be expected to sort of have read the most relevant literature and come armed with that information is often too much at the beginning.  

So, in the beginning, I think it’s best to leave that to your support system, and then as time goes on and as you start treatment, get comfortable, health literacy in our field, it becomes a more prevalent issue. And I think that when patients learn the most about how the field has evolved and where we are, the better that they can potentially do.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, that leads us perfectly into my next question. What resources do you suggest for boosting knowledge about AML? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

AML is like so many fields in medicine, but probably more so, moving so quickly that sort of the usual Google search is not going to, in most cases, bring up the most important, the most relevant information.  

So, I think that there are some organizations out there that do a really good job of educating patients. The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society is one. They have a good website.  

They have people you can contact, and they have really good information that’s available to patients and their families. That’s where I typically recommend people start. And then from there, based on our interest in education level and things like that, there can be other resources. But I think The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society’s a great place to start. 

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. Newly diagnosed patients and their care partners are often overwhelmed, as you mentioned earlier. What advice do you give them at their first appointment? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Right. So, this is a huge challenge. Anybody in the situation would be feeling like this. So, first of all, it’s sort of like, it’s okay to feel like this. It’s normal. 

It would be unnatural to not be overwhelmed with what you’re going through; that’s an important message. And then, I think there’s this period of time between diagnosis and a plan that is particularly anxiety-provoking. And so, as your doctor and their team sort of sorts through the necessary information to get a plan together, just know that that this a very anxiety-provoking time when you’re being told that you have a really significant and serious disease, and we don’t have a plan yet.

So, making sure that you sort of comfort yourself during that period, knowing that that his temporary and that is potentially the worst anxiety you will feel, I think, can be helpful. And then, from there once the plan is sort of in place and enacting it, it really is just focusing on short-term goals.  

So, instead of thinking three steps ahead and how’s the transplant going to work, in the early days, focusing on “Okay, how am I going to get into a remission?” and “How am I going to feel day-to-day? How can I feel as best I can day-to-day? What’s the best path to a remission?” And then, once you sort of meet the goal of remission, “Okay, what’s next? How are we going to cure this?” So, thinking through sort of in short bites, I think, is best. 

Katherine Banwell:

Are there other key questions that they should be asking their doctor or their healthcare team? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Yeah. Depending on the situation, this is a disease that can be cured; and so, from the first day, asking “Is that a possibility for me? Is there a curative plan for me, and what might that look like?” I think is an important question to ask from the beginning.  

Making sure you communicate your goals and your wishes, how you define quality of life, what that means to you. And in that way, that can really help inform your doctor and their team to put together a plan that sort of is most customized to you.  

Katherine Banwell:

That makes sense. Excuse me. When it comes to choosing AML therapy, it’s important to work with your healthcare team to identify what will be best for you. Would you walk us through the factors that are considered when choosing therapy for AML? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Sure, yeah. So, we now have options in treatments for this disease and for decades, that wasn’t the case. This was a one-size-fits-all type of disease. And in the last eight years, that has completely changed. 

So, there are approaches and diagnosis that vary between very intensive chemotherapy and less intensive treatments. What we call “targeted therapies” in some cases can be considered or be appropriate.  

And so, having a sense, after learning a little bit about this, of how much would you be willing to tolerate an intensive chemotherapy regimen and all the risks inherent in that, if that’s even being presented as an option, and if so, what does that look like? And if not, hey, what are the other options if that sort of doesn’t sound like something that you would be willing to accept? So, I think those kind of probing questions.  

 First, asking yourself and then sort of translating that into your treatment team, into “Hey, this is sort of how I define quality of life.  

And these are some red lines that I wouldn’t cross,” that can really help the healthcare team because, again, this is not one-size-fits-all anymore. We do have several options to consider at the time of diagnosis.  

Katherine Banwell:

What other factors would you take into consideration? Do you look at age and overall health and fitness, test results? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Absolutely. So, the relevant factors at the time of diagnosis would be, as you described, age, to some extent. And there’s no magic cutoff. “When a person is a certain age, this is no longer a treatment.” But age just gives us guidelines. Other comorbidities, other disease that you may be dealing with, things in your past, organ dysfunction; all those things are really, highly considered.  

And also, sort of your own attitude toward “Hey, would I be okay with a month-long stay in the hospital or is that something that there’s no sort of outcome that that would be okay for me to withstand?” But then, the other huge part of this are things that are sort of, at diagnosis, unknown to you and unknown to your doctor for a little bit. And those are disease factors. So, what are the mutations that make up your disease? What’s making your disease tick? And now, just with normal clinical care, we have unbelievable access to this information. We can essentially learn within a week or two every relevant mutation that’s contributing to your disease.                       

And that helps us tremendously with respect to prognostication, sure, but also treatment selection because there are some treatments that will work, we think, better with certain disease biology, and other treatments that will work less well.  

And we even have targeted therapies; so, based on particular mutations or other abnormalities, sort of a rationally designed therapy for exactly that disease biology. So, that is also a huge part of treatment selection, and we call those disease factors. 

Katherine Banwell:

Why is molecular testing important following an AML diagnosis?

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Right. So, this basically just gets into what we were just discussing. So, that molecular testing is the testing that will tell us all the mutations that make up your disease biology. And so, that is crucial for prognostication, but also treatment selection.  

And frankly, also when thinking about how to potentially cure your disease, those will be factors taken into account to make decisions that are pretty significant, such as should you receive a bone marrow transplant at some point in the future or not. And the reason it’s so crucial to get this done at diagnosis is, after diagnosis, we start a treatment, and hopefully we put your disease into a remission.

And at that point, we no longer have access to your disease cells. They’re gone, or they’re too low to even measure. And so, we need to get this information at diagnosis so that we can have it later on so that we can really understand your disease and make the best treatment plan for you.  

Katherine Banwell:

Right. We’ve covered this in past programs, but I think it’s worth reiterating. Would you define induction and consolidation therapy for the audience? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Yeah. So, traditionally when we only had intensive chemotherapy treatments, induction meant “Let’s get your disease under control.” That’s the first sort of line of treatment. “Let’s induce a remission.” That’s where that comes from. 

And then, consolidation meant “Let’s do more stuff, more chemotherapy to consolidate that remission,” or you can think of it as maintain that remission, deepen that remission. All those are sort of the same adjectives there. So, induction was step one. Consolidation was step two. We’ve retained a lot of this language into a time when we don’t only have intensive chemotherapy. So, we’ll still use the word induction sometimes to mean “Let’s get your disease under control, even if it’s not with intensive chemotherapy.” So, admittedly that can be very confusing, but if someone uses it in that manner, that what they’re talking about is “Let’s get your disease under control.”  

And consolidation still meant “Let’s deepen your remission” or “Let’s prolong your remission.” So, those are the general terms. They’re very much linked to intensive chemotherapy, which we still use, but it’s not all we use anymore.  

So, I think it has gotten confusing, and it’s perfectly reasonable to be confused about that terminology.  

Katherine Banwell:

Would you share an overview of the types of therapy for AML, and how do you decide which patient gets what?  

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Yeah. Because things are very different at relapse too, but at diagnosis, the options still are intensive chemotherapy, which is a regimen that hasn’t changed much in several decades really, 50 years.  

And then, there are other treatments. There’s a treatment called venetoclax (Venclexta) that we pair with a low-intensity chemotherapy treatment, either azacitidine (Vidaza), decitabine (Dacogen), or something called low-dose cytarabine (Cytosar U). Those are the three sort of partners for venetoclax.  

And then, there’s a targeted therapy against leukemia cells that have an IDH1 mutation that’s called ivosidenib (Tibsovo) that we also give with low-dose chemotherapy. So, in most cases those are the sort of three general options. That last treatment that’s targeted against IDH1, we typically preserve that for older patients or those that really are not good candidates for intensive chemotherapy but who have that IDH1 mutation, which is only somewhere around 10  percent of AML patients.

And then, so then the main decision then is “Do we give intensive chemotherapy, or do we give the venetoclax regimen?” And our policy is sort of, if we think we can cure you within intensive chemotherapy, and there’s certain disease biology subtypes that can be cured potentially with intensive chemotherapy, then that would be our first choice for you.  

If we don’t think we can cure you with intensive chemotherapy, if you don’t have that disease biology or if you do but you’re just not a candidate for that type of an approach, that’s when we give the venetoclax regimen. 

Katherine Banwell:

Are there other targeted therapies that you use?  

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Yes. So, venetoclax is a targeted therapy against Bcl-2. Unlike some of these other gene mutations, you don’t have to have something; there’s no mutation in Bcl-2 that you need to be a candidate for venetoclax. We give venetoclax pretty much to any potential AML patients. Genomically-targeted therapies:  you mentioned FLT3. Before I mentioned IDH1. There’s also one for IDH2. We hope there’s a couple more of these coming. Where these are approved, for the most part, at the moment, are in the relapse setting.  

So, a patient who receives a treatment, and then either doesn’t respond or responds and then relapses, that’s typically where we bring in these genomically-targeted therapies. There’s an exception for IDH1 that, like I said, can be used now in the upfront treatment setting. But for the most part, these genomically-targeted therapies are relevant in relapse disease. 

Katherine Banwell:

When would you use stem cell transplant?  

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

So, stem cell transplant for the majority of AML patients is still the only potential way to cure this disease. And so, a stem cell transplant is something that we give for that purpose. It’s something that we really reserve for people whose disease is in a remission. So, nobody comes in at diagnosis and goes right into a stem cell transplant; that wouldn’t work. So, you first have to achieve a remission with any number of one of the combinations of things that we’ve already discussed.  

But once the patient is in a remission and doesn’t have a curative strategy with, like, intensive chemotherapy or some other approach and is a good candidate for a transplant, which is a whole other sort of set of circumstances that has to be considered, that’s patients who we offer a transplant for. 

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. What about new and emerging treatments?  

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

So much that’s really exciting here. So, we’ve had several new approvals. We have a new FLT3 inhibitor that we can use for newly diagnosed patients who have a FLT3 mutation and who are getting intensive chemotherapy. We have, even now, a new therapy that’s given as a maintenance treatment. It’s called oral azacitidine or Onureg, which is really exciting as well.  

But I think the next sort of big thing in the field is going to be a targeted therapy for another subset of patients who are defined by the presence of a gene mutation, NPM1, but also by a chromosomal abnormality, something we call KMT2A. But these patients have disease that’s potentially amenable to what we call a menin inhibitor. And there are several companies with menin inhibitors. These therapies are getting pretty far along. We expect approval potentially soon for at least one of them. And then, I think these are going  to have a big impact on the field for those patients who have that type of disease.

Katherine Banwell:

Oh, that’s exciting news. Where do clinical trials fit in? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

So, clinical trials are crucial for everything that we’re trying to do. We don’t make any progress without clinical trials. So, that’s the field as a whole. We don’t move forward. We don’t get any of these new treatments without clinical trials.  

On an individual patient level, clinical trials are also really important because, for many patients we are still not doing as well as we want to be doing with this disease. We’ve made progress, but there’s still a lot of room for improvement. And so, for an individual patient, getting access to another therapy that, although we admit we don’t quite know yet whether it may be helpful but might be helpful, I think, is a really compelling situation to potentially consider participating because it is a guarantee you will help the field; and it’s a guarantee you will help every patient that comes after you through participation in clinical trial.  

But all these clinical trials are also designed to help you; to help you in a situation where we as a field don’t feel like we’re doing well enough. So, clinical trials, totally crucial if we’re going to continue making progress.  

And clinical trials are the reason why these last 10 years we have had such just dramatic improvement in availably of all these new therapies because literally thousands of patients have chosen to participate. 

Katherine Banwell:

How can patients find clinical trials that might be right for them? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

So, back to The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. They can be really helpful in guiding this. Asking your doctor, “Hey, are there any clinical trials her or at any other center that I should be considering?” And then, people who are interested in just going to the source. Every clinical trial that is available is registered at clinicaltrials.gov. And so, going to clinicaltrials.gov and then putting in some keywords like “acute myeloid leukemia,” you’ll see every clinical trial that’s available.  

Katherine Banwell:

Oh, that’s excellent. I’d also like to add for our viewers that if you’re interested in learning more about AML care and treatment, PEN has a number of resources available to you.  

You can find these at powerfulpatients.org/AML or by scanning the QR code on your screen.  

So, Dr. Pollyea, when choosing a therapy what questions should patients be asking their healthcare team about a treatment plan? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

So, at the time of diagnosis I think it’s a reasonable question to say, “Is my disease amenable to a cure? Can I be potentially cured?” and “Is this treatment part of a plan for a cure?” If that is possible, then I would want to be walked through the steps that that’s going to executed. And if it’s not possible for me to be cured, then I would like to discuss what is the treatment plan that could potentially give me the longest duration of a remission and the best quality of life. And so, that’s the conversation that I think is important to have.  

And then, everything that we discuss comes into play there; an individual’s sort of appropriateness for intensive chemotherapy versus less intensive regimens, and also the disease biology and what that maybe make them a candidate for.  

Katherine Banwell:

Are there certain symptoms or side effects a patient should share with their care team? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Yeah. So, we have a very, very sort liberal request that really anything, it should be shared. We have a 24/7 number to call with one of us on-call at all times. So, it’s very difficult for a patient to kind of be able to appreciate, when they’re going through such dramatic changes, “Hey, is this expected or not?” So, we really emphasize oversharing concerns about symptoms.  

All these drugs have very different side effect profiles, and some of them are common and some of them are less common. The disease itself can cause symptoms and clinical issues. So, instead of really trying to educate yourself in an impossible way on what could be or is not related, it’s better just to ask.  

Katherine Banwell:

What is the role of a care partner when someone is in active treatment? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Having a care partner is crucial. This is physically and mentally extraordinarily stressful on the body and on the mind. Having that support person for those purposes is really important. Having that person be an advocate for a patient to ask those questions that may not be getting asked, to reframe questions to get the best answers is really, really important.  

And then, there’s the more mundane things; just getting patients to their appointments and kind of keeping their morale up and those things. So, there’s data and research on this that patients with caregivers, they have better outcomes. When it comes to a transplant, a caregiver is not an option. You must have a caregiver. And the importance of that will be sort of relayed to you in the context of a discussion about a transplant. But a caregiver in the setting of a transplant is so important that it is a requirement to even be considered for that.  

Katherine Banwell:

Sounds like that’s vital. I’d like to get to a few audience questions that we received before the program. Chris sent in this question: I would like to hear more about mutations found during molecular testing. Are there new AML drugs in trials for other less common mutations? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Great question. So, at the moment, what we have clinically available are targeted therapies for patients with FLT3 mutations, IDH1, and IDH2 mutations.  

And there are about 50 different genes that can be mutated in AML, and so that’s a small slice of the pie. Those are relatively common mutations, but still, small slice of the pie. A lot of the very uncommon or less common gene mutations we don’t have great paths to targeted therapies for them. And is that just we never will? I don’t think necessarily, but I think those can be really challenging. Not every mutation is amenable to a targeted therapy, at least as far as we know now. The one that’s coming, that we’re hopeful about is NPM1, which may be able to be targeted with one of those menin inhibitors that we talked about. So, that’s the next big one up.  

And that will probably constitute 40 percent of patients that have one of those mutations that I listed. But research is ongoing to kind of try and dig into this more. What I will say is that the AML research community is so fantastic that every lead is being pursued, and there is a lab somewhere in the world whose focus is on whatever small, even the most least common AML mutation; that’s somebody’s focus. 

And so, if there were to be promising therapies developed for even rare mutations, I assure you, the field would take those forward and figure out a way to do those clinical trials and to get to approval if it’s appropriate. So, but I think that’s where the landscape is right now. 

Katherine Banwell:

This question comes from Rita: Outside of changes in bloodwork, what are signs that AML is returning? 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Great question.  

So, this can be a really tough one, and bloodwork is what we sorta hang our hat on. There are some times that patients sort of have clinical symptoms that proceed changes in bloodwork. I will say, I find that to be pretty uncommon. But some of the things that are pretty rare but might happen, would be leukemic involvement of the skin; so, it would appear as a rash. Some people might have some fatigue that comes on before the blood counts really change. That’s also pretty rare.

And then, if this disease were to work its way into any other organ or tissue in the body, and that’s rare, it’s possible that that could present with clinical signs and symptoms before a blood count change. But for the most part, the blood counts are really early sign that something is changing, and typically we’ll see that before any clinical signs.   

Katherine Banwell:

Thank you for that, Dr. Pollyea, and those were great questions. Please continue to send them to question@powerfulpatients.org, and we’ll work to get them answered on future programs. So, as we close out the program, Dr. Pollyea, what would you like to leave the audience with? Why are you hopeful that about the future of AML care and treatment?  

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Well, we’ve made unbelievable progress in just the last 10 years. And so, just looking into the future, I see nothing stopping that progress. So, it’s really exciting to think about where we’ll be two, five, 10 years from now. We never could have envisioned 10 years ago where we are now in terms of the therapies we have, how active and effective they are, and the impact that it’s had on patients.  

Again, just so proud to be part of this community, both on the patient care side and on the research side. It’s such a committed group of people, working around the clock on this disease to figure it out and to make some improvements. For all those reasons, I’m just super hopeful that we’ll just keep making progress, and I see no signs of anything slowing down. 

Katherine Banwell:

That’s a promising outlook to leave our audience with. Dr. Pollyea, thank you so much for joining us today. 

Dr. Daniel Pollyea:

Thanks so much for having me. 

Katherine Banwell:

And thank you to all of our collaborators. To learn more about AML and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for being with us today.  

Myelofibrosis Symptoms and Side Effects | Why Speaking Up Is Vital

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Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju emphasizes the importance of knowing your body and sharing all myelofibrosis symptoms and side effects with their healthcare team. 

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju is Director of the Blastic Plasmacytoid Dendritic Cell Neoplasm (BPDCN) Program and Professor in the Department of Leukemia at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Pemmaraju.

Download Resource Guide

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 Emotional Health | Why It’s Vital for Myelofibrosis Patients to Share Concerns 

Emotional Health | Why It’s Vital for Myelofibrosis Patients to Share Concerns

Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

So, the symptoms of myelofibrosis as well as the side effects of certain medications can vary greatly among patients. 

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Yeah. 

Katherine Banwell:

Why is it critical for patients to share any issues they may be having with their care team?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Yeah, exactly what you said. So, those two concepts are tied. Since the disease is so rare and it’s so heterogeneous, not just patient to patient, but within the same patient over the journey of years, that is the reason. So, because of that, that’s why one has to communicate every single thing to the healthcare team. It’s interesting. Something that the patient may not believe is serious, the caregiver sometimes knows, right, team?  

So, sometimes the person who’s your loved one or caregiver, “Oh, you know, that’s not-quite-right.” Sometimes the patient knows obviously, and then sometimes the healthcare team may say, “You know, that’s not-quite-right.” I think the not-quite-right thing is the key because that is what supersedes or at least precedes lab testing, X-rays, imaging, and bone marrows, it has to be some provocation. So, what I try to tell people is you know your body best. So, you want to be in touch with yourself, with your body, and anything that isn’t right, don’t be the final judge on that.  

Push it up the chain, let your caregiver know, let your doctors know, let your team know, and let them help you decide. Sometimes it may be nothing, that’s fine. Sometimes it may be something. Sometimes it may be something outside of your MPN. That’s another key theme, I think, I mentioned here a couple of times. Anemia is a good example. So, lowering of the hemoglobin. It’s exactly what you just asked me. So, in addition to looking to see if it’s the disease progression itself, okay, fine.  

However, could it also be drug toxicities, as you mentioned? So, the JAK inhibitor may be causing the anemia or whatever. Then the third bucket is, could it be anemia of regular life stuff, iron deficiency anemia. Could it be a colon cancer or a polyp that’s hiding there? Could it be vitamin B12 deficiency, hemolysis, immune, or something destroying the red blood cells, etc., etc.? So, you make an awesome point, which is all of that can be alleviated or the ball can be started rolling, if you will, by mentioning it. So, the key is no shame, no silence, and mention everything.  

Katherine Banwell:

No silly questions.  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

No silly questions, that’s right.  

Myelofibrosis Care | The Impact of Test Results

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How do test results impact myelofibrosis care? Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju outlines essential tests like bone marrow biopsies and molecular testing and shares how results may guide treatment and prognosis.  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju is Director of the Blastic Plasmacytoid Dendritic Cell Neoplasm (BPDCN) Program and Professor in the Department of Leukemia at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Pemmaraju.

Download Resource Guide

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Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Let’s talk about test results. What sort of tests should be done following a myelofibrosis diagnosis?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Well, I think this is something that’s an active area of evolution. I think the good news is I can give you a few standard items. I think most, if not all, of our patients, will require a bone marrow biopsy to be done at baseline and possibly even later on to assess the status of the therapy. Now, in some cases, that may not be available or accessible due to patient preference or comorbidities.  

However, a bone marrow biopsy is a way to look inside and see how the bone marrow tissues are doing. Outside of that, for the blood tests, the two most critical sets are what we call a CBC and a CMP. So, CBC complete blood count. This is where you get your hemoglobin, platelets, and white blood cell count, very important to know at baseline and dynamically.  

Then the complete metabolic profile is very important, Katherine because we need to know how the potassium, kidney function, and liver function are doing. Then finally, I would also say you’ll see your provider add in other blood tests over time, depending on the particular case. Thyroid testing if it’s needed in the case of fatigue, just to name one example. So, I think these are the main categories.  

I think what’s also interesting over time is that this is an issue with us as well in the MPN clinic. You end up seeing your MPN provider and team so much that it’s easy to forget and lose sight of the primary care items too. So, this is a good time to remind folks to stay in touch with their MPN team, the provider, and their caregiver, whether it’s colonoscopies, mammogram, or prostate. I remember over the COVID pandemic time, especially, a lot of that was either sacrificed, forgotten, or on purpose put aside. So, let’s remind people in 2024 to remember to have that partnership as well.  

Katherine Banwell:

How does molecular testing affect treatment options and prognosis? 

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Right, yeah, I haven’t mentioned that yet because that’s something that we’re trying to layer into. I do find that to be the standard of care now in the treatment of myelofibrosis. What you’re asking about is very important. So, outside of the normal labs in bone marrow morphology, seeing what it looks like under the microscope, we’re starting to add three or four items. One is called cytogenetics, that’s chromosomes. You’re born with 46, so 23 from mother, 23 from father, for example, 46 total.  

Even though most people are not born with an MPN per se, those chromosomes can change and become abnormal over time. So, we want to know that, and that can help us tell low versus high versus intermediate risk. Two is the molecular test you ask about. Most people have heard of JAK2, that’s the most common out of myelofibrosis, maybe 50 percent to 60 percent of cases, JAK2V617F. However, did you know there’s also CALR, which is the second most common molecular mutation, and then MPL. 

Those three are the big three driver mutations. They make up roughly about 90 percent of our cases, 10% being so-called triple-negative. So, you’re negative for all three. When you do deeper sequencing, which is available now clinically, and we check that here, you will find almost always, some other mutation, ASXL1, EZH2, SRSF2, etc. It becomes an alphabet soup very quickly. However, I think basically you should know that there’s JAK2, CALR-MPL, the big three driver mutations, and additional molecular mutations.  

So, therefore we and others believe you should check these as standard. Finally, there’s also flow cytometry. Just want to give a shout-out to that. Most people haven’t heard of that. When you send your bone marrow for testing, in addition to the pathologist looking under the microscope with the human eyes, there’s also a test that does side scatter of light called flow cytometry. That helps to look at a deeper level, maybe the thousandth, maybe even down to the millionth level, what these cancer cells do. 

Katherine Banwell:

What sorts of questions should patients be asking about test results?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

I think the number one and number two questions that I advocate for patients or on programs like this, I think the one question that may help a lot is this question of when you hear all the data and ask the question, “Hey, is there any other questions I should be asking that I’m missing?” It’s an interesting question, right? It’s almost a meta, right, kind of a situation. However, when you ask that, every time I’ve been asked in the clinic, it makes me pause and say, “Now that you mentioned it, X, Y, and Z.”  

So, I think it’s a good one to ask either your physician or whoever healthcare provider is in the room, again, nurse, or PA. It’s an interesting one, right? It kind of makes someone maybe even put themselves in your shoes. So, I like it as a device to make people pause in a busy clinic. Yeah, the second question that I think is a good one is to say, “While things are going well right now, I wanted to ask you, doc, what are some things that could happen in the next six months, one year, or two years, adverse events or abnormal things, and is there something I can do to plan for it?” 

Again, it may be somewhat of a theoretical question. The doctor may say, “Okay, right now things are going well,” but it kind of makes people think about contingency plans, and alternative things. Well, now that you mention it, there is this one side effect of this drug. I don’t know, I think those are two kinds of go-to questions that I want people to be equipped with. 

Elevate | What You Should Know About Your Role in Myelofibrosis Treatment and Care Decisions

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How can you elevate your overall myelofibrosis care and treatment? Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju discusses the importance of engaging in myelofibrosis care decisions with your healthcare team, shares advice for setting treatment goals, and reviews factors that may impact therapy options. Dr. Pemmaraju also provides tips and resources for self-advocacy, including coping with emotional health.

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju is Director of the Blastic Plasmacytoid Dendritic Cell Neoplasm (BPDCN) Program and Professor in the Department of Leukemia at The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center. Learn more about Dr. Pemmaraju.

Download Resource Guide

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Transcript:

Katherine Banwell:

Hello and welcome. I’m your host, Katherine Banwell. Today’s webinar is part of the Patient Empowerment Network’s Elevate Series to help myelofibrosis patients and care partners feel well-informed when making treatment decisions with their healthcare team. On today’s program, an expert will join us to share advice for accessing better overall care. 

Before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Well, let’s meet our guest today. Joining us is Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju. Dr. Pemmaraju, it’s good to see you again. Welcome. Would you please introduce yourself?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Oh, thanks, Katherine, and to Jamie and the team. I’m Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju, a Professor of Leukemia at MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas. I also serve as the director for our rare disease program focusing on BPDCN and, of course, MPNs. Also, I want to mention, I have another hat, which is executive director for MD Anderson Cancer Network for Cancer Medicine. Thanks, Katherine.   

Katherine Banwell:

Well, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to join us. I’d like to start by discussing your role as a researcher. You’re on the front lines for advancements in the myelofibrosis field. What led you here, and why is it important to you?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Well, I think it’s an important question to start with and one that we need to evaluate and dynamically reevaluate over time. I think really for me, two major themes, Katherine, that brought me to this point. One is the absolute desire to be there for patients who don’t have a voice. So, that means giving voice to the voiceless. It’s something I’ve always been good at ever since I was a youth, which is advocating for those who may not be able to or cannot advocate for themselves.  

So, this is the rare disease thread. A lot of my colleagues were going into lung cancer, breast cancer, and colon cancer, very important. We need folks there. However, those were common diseases, largely elucidated. I was always drawn to the more difficult-to-treat diseases, esoteric, and rare, and I think that’s one component, which is the patient voice.  

The second aspect is scientific interest. Again, in the more common tumor types and diseases, there’s a lot already known. So, many of the researchers and research being done is either derivative from that knowledge, Katherine, a or kind of secondary. I wanted to put my efforts and my team’s efforts and frankly, my life effort into trying to figure out new science, new pathways, new breakthroughs, new ideas, and new concepts. I find that in the rare disease space, that’s where I can do that. So, both from the humanistic patient aspect and the science aspect.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, it sounds like it’s a challenge to you as well.  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

I think that’s a great point. So, while it’s intellectually satisfying and very important to pursue this, and I love my patients, the clinic, and my team, you make a really good point. Every day when I wake up, it is the challenge that really drives you, which is to try to improve not only the lives of our patients but the quality of life.  

Try to improve the education barriers, which are many, and then the access barriers, not only here in the U.S., but all over the world. Social media has helped that, democratization of information, and platforms like yours right now to get the message out there to folks who need it the most. However, you make a good point. We have a lot of challenges and a lot of barriers, and that motivates me to get up in the morning every day. 

Katherine Banwell:

When it comes to choosing therapy, Dr. Pemmaraju, it’s important to work with your healthcare team to identify what is going to work best for you. So, as a clinician, how do you define shared decision-making?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Very important. So, shared decision-making to me means a partnership. It means a journey that the patient and the providing team are about to embark on. It’s a very different approach than a one-way, I tell you, you do this. Instead, I see it as a bi-directional exchange of ideas.  

Each visit, each EPIC in-basket or EMR communication, each touch with the healthcare system, the pharmacist, the PA, nurse, whoever is dealing with the patient, I think that’s the key.  

So, a bi-directional exchange of ideas, what’s important to you as the patient? What’s important to the caregiver? What are the worries? What are the barriers? Designing a treatment system around that, a treatment paradigm and approach. Discussing risks, benefits, side effects, toxicities, alternatives, and then a constant dynamic reevaluation throughout. That’s what I pictured. It has to be a journey and a partnership.  

Katherine Banwell:

Well, part of making care decisions is setting goals and I think you’ve just alluded to that. What are treatment goals for myelofibrosis, and how are they determined?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

That’s a great question. Myelofibrosis treatment goals are changing in real-time. I would say as of this recording, 2024, the main three things that I want patients to think about and the caregivers.  

Number one is a stem-cell transplant eligible or not? It used to be based on age and comorbidities, but there are other factors. So, are we going to stem cell transplants or not? That determines a lot of the journey. Two is a clinical trial or not. So, are we doing the standard of care therapy, often one pill at a time, or clinical trial, either an IV drug, a pill, or combinations? Then three is that dynamic assessment that we talked about, which is what are the goals of care? Often our patients with myelofibrosis have decreased quality of life, enlarged organs, fatigue, cachexia, and malnutrition.  

These are the central components. A lot of times they’re due to the myelofibrosis itself. So, the treatments may improve that. A lot of times it’s the other comorbidities, other health issues. So, working with the PCP, the primary care provider, and the local team. In my case, many of my patients are referrals, as you know, the local MD team. I think these are the three components, transplant eligibility or not, clinical trial versus standard of care. 

Then once we’ve made a treatment decision, minding toxicities and quality of life.  

Katherine Banwell:

Right, okay. So, you’ve touched upon the factors that are considered when choosing therapy for myelofibrosis. Let’s talk about test results. What sort of tests should be done following a myelofibrosis diagnosis?   

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Well, I think this is something that’s an active area of evolution. I think the good news is I can give you a few standard items. I think most, if not all, of our patients, will require a bone marrow biopsy to be done at baseline and possibly even later on to assess the status of the therapy. Now, in some cases, that may not be available or accessible due to patient preference or comorbidities.  

However, a bone marrow biopsy is a way to look inside and see how the bone marrow tissues are doing. Outside of that, for the blood tests, the two most critical sets are what we call a CBC and a CMP. So, CBC complete blood count. This is where you get your hemoglobin, platelets, and white blood cell count, very important to know at baseline and dynamically.  

Then the complete metabolic profile is very important, Katherine because we need to know how the potassium, kidney function, and liver function are doing. Then finally, I would also say you’ll see your provider add in other blood tests over time, depending on the particular case. Thyroid testing if it’s needed in the case of fatigue, just to name one example. So, I think these are the main categories.  

I think what’s also interesting over time is that this is an issue with us as well in the MPN clinic. You end up seeing your MPN provider and team so much that it’s easy to forget and lose sight of the primary care items too. So, this is a good time to remind folks to stay in touch with their MPN team, the provider, and their caregiver, whether it’s colonoscopies, mammogram, or prostate. I remember over the COVID pandemic time, especially, a lot of that was either sacrificed, forgotten, or on purpose put aside. So, let’s remind people in 2024 to remember to have that partnership as well.  

Katherine Banwell:

How does molecular testing affect treatment options and prognosis? 

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Right, yeah, I haven’t mentioned that yet because that’s something that we’re trying to layer into. I do find that to be the standard of care now in the treatment of myelofibrosis. What you’re asking about is very important. So, outside of the normal labs in bone marrow morphology, seeing what it looks like under the microscope, we’re starting to add three or four items. One is called cytogenetics, that’s chromosomes. You’re born with 46, so 23 from mother, 23 from father, for example, 46 total.   

Even though most people are not born with an MPN per se, those chromosomes can change and become abnormal over time. So, we want to know that, and that can help us tell low versus high versus intermediate risk. Two is the molecular test you ask about. Most people have heard of JAK2, that’s the most common out of myelofibrosis, maybe 50 percent to 60 percent of cases, JAK2V617F. However, did you know there’s also CALR, which is the second most common molecular mutation, and then MPL. 

Those three are the big three driver mutations. They make up roughly about 90 percent of our cases, 10% being so-called triple-negative. So, you’re negative for all three. When you do deeper sequencing, which is available now clinically, and we check that here, you will find almost always, some other mutation, ASXL1, EZH2, SRSF2, etc. It becomes an alphabet soup very quickly. However, I think basically you should know that there’s JAK2, CALR-MPL, the big three driver mutations, and additional molecular mutations.  

So, therefore we and others believe you should check these as standard. Finally, there’s also flow cytometry. Just want to give a shout-out to that. Most people haven’t heard of that. When you send your bone marrow for testing, in addition to the pathologist looking under the microscope with the human eyes, there’s also a test that does side scatter of light called flow cytometry. That helps to look at a deeper level, maybe the thousandth, maybe even down to the millionth level, what these cancer cells do.  

Katherine Banwell:

What sorts of questions should patients be asking about test results?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

I think the number one and number two questions that I advocate for patients or on programs like this, I think the one question that may help a lot is this question of when you hear all the data and ask the question, “Hey, is there any other questions I should be asking that I’m missing?” It’s an interesting question, right? It’s almost a meta, right, kind of a situation. However, when you ask that, every time I’ve been asked in the clinic, it makes me pause and say, “Now that you mentioned it, X, Y, and Z.”  

So, I think it’s a good one to ask either your physician or whoever healthcare provider is in the room, again, nurse, or PA. It’s an interesting one, right? It kind of makes someone maybe even put themselves in your shoes. So, I like it as a device to make people pause in a busy clinic. Yeah, the second question that I think is a good one is to say, “While things are going well right now, I wanted to ask you, doc, what are some things that could happen in the next six months, one year, or two years, adverse events or abnormal things, and is there something I can do to plan for it?” 

Again, it may be somewhat of a theoretical question. The doctor may say, “Okay, right now things are going well,” but it kind of makes people think about contingency plans, and alternative things. Well, now that you mention it, there is this one side effect of this drug. I don’t know, I think those are two kinds of go-to questions that I want people to be equipped with.   

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah, that’s great advice. I’d like to add that if you, the viewer, are interested in learning more about myelofibrosis testing and treatment, PEN has a number of resources available to you. You can find these at powerfulpatients.org/MPN or by scanning the QR code on your screen.  

So, once all testing is complete and the patient has an accurate diagnosis, they’ll work with their doctor then on a treatment approach. You’ve touched on this a little bit, but  

What are the types of treatment available for people with myelofibrosis?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Yeah, thanks, Katherine. We’ll keep it general and standard of care. As you mentioned at the top, I’ll reiterate, that none of these are intended to be specific instructions for specific folks. However, in general, for the category of patients with myelofibrosis, in general, there’s not many treatments, unfortunately. As of 2024, we have only four standard JAK inhibitors. So, that’s this pathway we’re talking about, JAK-STAT. Interestingly, you don’t have to be JAK2V617F mutated. These are for the whole pathway.  

So, all patients with myelofibrosis, are intermediate to high risk. The first one, Katherine, is ruxolitinib (Jakafi), which has been around for more than a decade, and first in class JAK inhibitor. The second drug is fedratinib (Inrebic). The third is pacritinib (Vonjo), approved only in 2020 for those patients with less than platelets of 50. Then the myelofibrosis drug, momelotinib (Ojjaara), just approved not even a year ago, in September of 2023 for myelofibrosis with anemia. So, those four are considered as called JAK inhibitors.   

They are really the only targeted therapy class of drugs specifically approved in the MF space. Outside of that, there’s older and other drugs that me and others have used, if you will, so-called off-label or historical use, hydroxyurea  (Hydrea), interferon products such as pegylated interferon. Hypomethylators such as azacitidine (Vidaza) and decitabine (Dacogen), particularly in more advanced cases. Some of those drugs are borrowed from MDS and AML and have been around for decades.  

Then of course, finally, clinical trials. We really recommend folks, if they have the ability and feasibility, clinical trials, even in the first diagnosis setting. So, untreated, first therapy. These clinical trials, Katherine, are based on three factors. One is JAK inhibitor plus another agent. So, that’s kind of like a combination trial. Two is add-on agents. So, you’re already on the JAK inhibitor for a while, maybe it’s starting to not work. Then you add in a third agent.  

Then three is a completely novel agent beyond the JAK-STAT pathway. Then maybe we can even add a fourth one now as this is evolving in real-time, which is anemia-targeting drugs. Many of our patients have either transfusion-dependent or bad anemia. Some of the drugs that are being developed are specifically aimed at them.  

Katherine Banwell:

There are a couple of new and emerging treatments as well, right? What are those?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Yeah, so right. So, I’m proud to report to the viewers that just now in real time, just in the last year, really we have had several major developments. Now these are not yet FDA-approved agents. They’re experimental investigational agents, but they’ve reached what’s called Phase II or Phase III testing which are the later stages of testing. I’d like to highlight four or five of those.  

These are mostly in the combination space. So, this is a JAK inhibitor plus the new agent. One is called navitoclax. That’s a BCLXL inhibitor, not yet FDA-approved for any indication. However, this has been shown to have activity in the Phase I and II trials, either as a single agent or in combination.  

Now that’s reached Phase III testing. The second one is the pelabresib agent, which is a bromodomain or BET inhibitor. A third, if you can believe it, it’s selinexor (Xpovio), which is an XPO1 inhibitor. Also, a fourth really now entering into Phase III trials is the MDM2 inhibitor navtemadlin. You have these four drugs, which are either completing or starting Phase III, which is the most advanced testing.  

That means they’re randomized trials, usually international trials, many hundreds of patients. It’s an amazing effort that’s unprecedented. By the way, these are being tested in the frontline setting before patients have ever had a JAK inhibitor in combination with. Beyond that, Katherine, there’s many, many trials with novel agents by themselves. So, imetelstat (Rytelo) comes to mind, which is a telomerase inhibitor, for example, which is also in Phase III testing in the relapse setting. So, you’ve already had a JAK inhibitor, it didn’t work out for you. Interestingly in that trial, the overall survival is the primary endpoint rather than spleen and symptoms, which marks the first time we’ve ever seen that. 

It also marks the understanding that these chronic diseases, chronic myelofibrosis can then turn into a more advanced acute in the relapse setting. So, that’s just a sample of some of the ones that are now entering the late stages of trials, many more in Phase I and II. In a good way, there’s a new trial opening once a week.  

Katherine Banwell:

That’s exciting news. So, the symptoms of myelofibrosis as well as the side effects of certain medications can vary greatly among patients. 

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Yeah. 

Katherine Banwell:

Why is it critical for patients to share any issues they may be having with their care team?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Yeah, exactly what you said. So, those two concepts are tied. Since the disease is so rare and it’s so heterogeneous, not just patient to patient, but within the same patient over the journey of years, that is the reason. So, because of that, that’s why one has to communicate every single thing to the healthcare team. It’s interesting. Something that the patient may not believe is serious, the caregiver sometimes knows, right, team?  

So, sometimes the person who’s your loved one or caregiver, “Oh, you know, that’s not-quite-right.” Sometimes the patient knows obviously, and then sometimes the healthcare team may say, “You know, that’s not-quite-right.” I think the not-quite-right thing is the key because that is what supersedes or at least precedes lab testing, X-rays, imaging, and bone marrows, it has to be some provocation. So, what I try to tell people is you know your body best. So, you want to be in touch with yourself, with your body, and anything that isn’t right, don’t be the final judge on that.  

Push it up the chain, let your caregiver know, let your doctors know, let your team know, and let them help you decide. Sometimes it may be nothing, that’s fine. Sometimes it may be something. Sometimes it may be something outside of your MPN. That’s another key theme, I think, I mentioned here a couple of times. Anemia is a good example. So, lowering of the hemoglobin. It’s exactly what you just asked me. So, in addition to looking to see if it’s the disease progression itself, okay, fine.  

However, could it also be drug toxicities, as you mentioned? So, the JAK inhibitor may be causing the anemia or whatever. Then the third bucket is, could it be anemia of regular life stuff, iron deficiency anemia. Could it be a colon cancer or a polyp that’s hiding there? Could it be vitamin B12 deficiency, hemolysis, immune, or something destroying the red blood cells, etc., etc.? So, you make an awesome point, which is all of that can be alleviated or the ball can be started rolling, if you will, by mentioning it. So, the key is no shame, no silence, and mention everything.  

Katherine Banwell:

No silly questions.  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

No silly questions, that’s right.  

Katherine Banwell:

Right. I’d like to get to a few audience questions that we received prior to the program.  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Sure. 

Katherine Banwell:

Cliff wrote in with this question. “Can you explain the dynamic international prognostic scoring system or DIPSS?” Thank goodness there’s an acronym for that.  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Yeah, no, it’s a great question, scoring systems, right?  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah, and Cliff wants to know how he can ask his doctor about it.  

Katherine Banwell:

Right, so the easiest way to talk about it, the good news is everything we’ve been talking about is incorporated in the scoring system. So, said in another way, we’ve been talking about it subjectively, the scoring systems try to make the subject objective. So, quick history, these started in 2009 with the IPSS, International Prognostic Scoring System. The concept there were a thousand patients in Europe and basically trying to observe the natural history of the progression of myelofibrosis. This was just before, just as the JAK inhibitor era was starting. What we found is that the four groups nicely separate.  

So, the lowest of the low-risk group potentially can be measured in decades for overall survival. Intermediate one, intermediate two, and high risk, again, all separated by overall survival and AML leukemia transformation risk. Now, that’s evolved over time as the questioner is asking for more sophisticated scoring systems. So, that’s all you need to know. So, DIPSS Plus just means Dynamic International Prognostic Scoring System.  

Then there’s DIPSS plus, and can you believe it? There’s even the MIPSS now, the Molecular International Prognostic Scoring System. All right. So, at least there’s a rhyme and reason there. I think each iteration is telling you that we are dynamically understanding more about the disease. Two, the IPSS, the original one, was meant to be only at diagnosis, and the DIPSS by definition, dynamic scoring, is any time during the course of the disease, that’s interesting. Then three, they’re incorporating new factors each time.  

So, from the time of the IPSS to the DIPSS and now the MIPSS, you’re incorporating all these factors that we couldn’t before. Cytogenetics, molecular findings, anemia, transfusion, burn, thrombocytopenia, etc. So, that’s basically it. You can ask your doctor. I mean, basically, in the course of what we do in the non-clinical trial standard of care, even if somebody doesn’t hand stop and calculate these risk scores, we’re talking about the same thing, right? The subjective or the objective matchup.  

However, of interest to the patients, there are calculators that are available, you know, obviously rather than doing it in isolation in your house. Yes, it is better, I agree to do it with your doctor, with your provider team, and see what it means for you. The goal of these is twofold. In clinical trials to help stratify patients so you can understand who’s high risk versus lower. However, in the standard of care, sure it may help with transplant decisions, referrals for clinical trials, etc.  

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. All right, this next question comes from Joel. “I understand that mutational testing should be done at diagnosis. Is there a point where there would be a need to repeat this test?”  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Oh, that’s an awesome question. So, we were mentioning that earlier. I do believe and I advocate that all patients should have molecular testing, particularly now as it’s more available widely before it wasn’t. Again, we level set what we’re talking about. In myelofibrosis, three common driver mutations, JAK2, CALR, MPL makes up about 90 percent. 

Then in addition to that, there’s the triple-negative, and you usually find an additional mutation. Then on top of these big three, it’s common to have co-mutations, ASXL1, etc. What we found in this MIPSS score that we just mentioned ties into that. We found now that for the first time, we can incorporate these molecular findings to prognosticate for the patients. That’s why it’s important to check them. So, to this question by Joel, yes, if you have access and availability, not only checking it at baseline but later on at a provoking event.  

So, at the time of relapse, progression, going onto a clinical trial, just to name three of several. I think it’s a good idea to recheck the molecular status. The problem and barriers are what you would expect, cost, expense, access, availability, justification, etc., etc. So, it’s not a mandatory part of the field, especially in the standard of care, non-research aspect. However, if we can get to the point where we can do that, it would be nice and helpful because these mutations change, they’re dynamic.  

You can have negative for mutation  at baseline, positive, and even vice versa, depending on therapies. Are you goimg to go for a transplant? Are you going to go to a clinical trial? Are you changing therapy? It would be nice to know.  

Katherine Banwell:

Right. All right, here’s one more from Diana. “Can diet play a role in either manifesting the disease and or helping with healing? Also, how important is exercise to the healing?”  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

I give a lot of credit to this area, to my colleagues, Ruben Mesa, Dr. Angela Fleischman, and Dr. Robyn Scherber. A lot of data that’s come out of these groups, which has shown two major findings in our MPN patients of potential clinical significance. One is as the questioner is asking about diet. It is true that we’re, several studies are pointing towards the anti-inflammatory Mediterranean diet as a potential benefit to our patients with MPN. Lots of different ideas there when they measure cytokines. 

These abnormal protein signatures that are in MPN patients can cause fatigue and some of the bad quality of life can be dramatically improved in some cases by following a strict Mediterranean diet over weeks and months. So, that’s something important. People should check it out. Obviously, diets have to be addressed with each patient and each provider because sometimes a diet may work for someone and not for you because of comorbidities, vitamin deficiencies, electrolytes, etc.  

Then the second aspect, if I may include in this question, is also the concept of yoga/meditation. Dr. Ruben Mesa and others have shown, the same thing, that you can have a potential downregulation of some of these abnormal cytokines. However, the caveat is it must be done right with a guided trainer in a real program over a certain period of time. What I think both of these non-pharmacological interventions tell us is that there are things beyond medicines and pills that may really help our patients in some aspect of the disease.  

Well, if that aspect is fatigue, night sweats, headaches, I think that’s a really important thing. So, let’s say together on this program that these data sets are evolving, they’re interesting, they’re intriguing. For some people, it may be an easy incorporation. Frankly, some people may already be doing these things, but as you ask nicely, let’s include in the discussion non-pharmacologic as we heavily investigate the pharmacologic as well. We’re all open to that. Let’s see the data, and the data is evolving.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, those were all great questions from our viewers. We ask that you continue to send them to question@powerfulpatients.org, and we will work to get them answered on future programs. I’d like to turn back to self-advocacy for a moment, Dr. Pemmaraju. Managing the worry associated with a diagnosis or concerns about the future, and we did touch upon that earlier, it can lead to anxiety and fear. Why is it important for patients to share any worries they may be having with their care team?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Well, I love this question. It really wraps up everything we’re talking about here. I believe that part of the journey for the patient does include mental and psychological safety. So, it’s very difficult to make major life decisions when one is not feeling mentally, or psychologically safe. So, that’s what you’re hitting on here. Anxiety, fear, and worry, of course, are a natural and important part of the patient journey with any cancer, much less a rare cancer and blood cancer on top of that. However, sometimes in some patients, it can become so paralyzing, so overtaking, and overwhelming that it may prevent the ability of the patient to receive information, process it, and then make a decision back. Yes, we want people to have caregivers, and power of attorney, all those things are essential, but we also want people to have their own agency in aegis.   

So, I would approach this from three aspects. I really love this question because I don’t think we were addressing it head-on 10 or 15 years ago. One aspect is the disease itself. These MPNs, systemic mastocytosis, eosinophilia, myelofibrosis, PV, ET, all of these MPNs can secrete these cytokines and granules that can mess up the patient’s mindset, even just profound fatigue leading to a slowing down of the neurological process. So, I think underlying control of the disease is something that can affect this. Number two is the side effects from some of these medicines. Interferon is a great example, a wonderful class of drugs that’s been around for decades, treated for solid and liquid tumors, but it has a known side effect of causing brain fog. Some of these issues can even cause depression and anxiety in some people. So, education, mitigation, following these things with dose reduction, that’s an important part.  

A third aspect, Katherine, is actually looking with a counselor and a therapist on the spectrum of this. So, normal, adjustment disorder, depression, for example. What we’ve had as a breakthrough at our center has been the supportive palliative care team. They’ve been phenomenal. So, this is a group of doctors who’s kind of one-third internist, one-third oncologist, and one-third psychiatry support.   

So, rather than the usual consults that we used to do either to psychiatry or to social work case managers, there is this burgeoning field of supportive care medicine which has revolutionized the care, I think, particularly for solid tumor patients and now hopefully for our blood cancer patients. So, I’m able to refer patients for a variety of reasons. There’s a fatigue clinic for overwhelming fatigue. There is obviously depression, and anxiety support, either with medications, talk therapy, or both. Smoking secession for folks who are still smoking and maybe either withdrawing or quitting is causing stress.   

So, it’s a really cool science and if your center has that, that’s something to inquire about. Then lastly, as we mentioned, a nice running theme today, Katherine, is looking for other medical stuff outside of the MPN. I mentioned thyroid earlier. Remember, you have a thyroid abnormality that can cause fatigue, depression, and anxiety, right? So, what’s your TSH thyroid function, and vitamin deficiencies?  

Screening for your other well-person screening exams, looking for solid tumors, looking for other conditions that may be mimicking the MPN, or mimicking one of your other aspects. So, again, it comes down to partnership with the primary care team and looking at that. So, I think those are some of the aspects that I want to mention, but it’s such an important part of the journey. I really have to mention that as well.  

Katherine Banwell:

Financial concerns may weigh heavy on patients and families. While everyone’s situation is different, do you have advice for where patients can turn for financial support?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

I think this is going to be the next great revolution. Just like I mentioned, the psychiatry, mood, and quality of life realm, I think this will be the next one of the next decade. I think largely it has been not even overlooked, just misunderstood. I’m an academic. I’ve been an academic my whole life, so I’ve never practiced in a private practice. So, some of these issues are quite difficult and foreign for many of us academic doctors.  

In the community setting, there’s a whole set of pressures. Then of course, as you mentioned, there is a whole theme of the pharmaceutical companies helping. In the case of the JAK inhibitors, many of them have patient assistance programs, which have been vital to our patients. So, I think that financial toxicity, that’s what you’re asking about, right, is going to be the next era, the next realm, has been severely underlooked at, really misunderstood.  

You know, I think at the academic centers, you know, obviously we have access to financial counselors, business office, those folks are invaluable. I see them as an essential part of our team, particularly on patients who are trying to get on clinical trials, etc. I think in the community aspect where many of our patients are treated, I think there’s going to be a challenge. So, we have to work with insurance companies, pharmaceuticals, local clinics.  

For patients who don’t have healthcare insurance, try to get them insurance, county systems, cache safety net systems. However, I think you hit on it. I think this will be a new vital sign. It’ll be a new toxicity. It’ll be a new aspect when we consider new drug approvals, and financial toxicity. 

Katherine Banwell:

As we close the program, Dr. Pemmaraju, what would you like to leave the audience with? Why are you hopeful about the future of myelofibrosis care and treatment?  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

You know, I am hopeful. I am very hopeful. I think the two biggest things that I’m excited about for our patients and their caregivers are one, the burgeoning clinical trial portfolio that we have all over the world.  

Very excited to see the interconnections from Asia, Europe, North and South America. We’re trying to make inroads into Africa and Australia as well. So, a true worldwide  effort for MPNs, particularly myelofibrosis and clinical trials. So, stay tuned for that. I think that’s an exciting aspect.  So, not just the existence of them, but the interconnectivity,  communication, improvement, and availability. I think the second aspect that I’m super excited about is the democratization of information.  

Honestly, 10 years ago, it was kind of difficult to find out information about these diseases, not 100 years ago, just 10 years ago. I really attribute social media and the interconnectivity of folks on these platforms to getting information out there. I would put this type of a platform as well in that same conversation, which is newsflash, nobody’s reading books anymore. Okay, there I said it. 

However, people do have time for a quick two or three-minute blurb while they’re in the coffee line. So, if they can watch a snippet of an interview like this. They can get an email blast about a community town hall. They can get a paragraph on the new drug that just came out. People can take in information in small amounts so I think we have to meet folks, Katherine, where they are.  

We cannot expect people to go to the library and open up a dusty book. I mean, that was in my generation 30 years ago. So, people are on their phones, let’s meet them on their phones. They’re online let’s meet them there. If you’re going to have an in-person town hall, make it high-yield, make it worth somebody’s time and energy and effort frankly, to leave their house to come. Finally, let’s make things affordable from an educational standpoint, if not free, to get the information to the people who need it the most. I’m hopeful about that. I think social media and online platforms have helped us with that.  

Katherine Banwell:

Yeah. Well, that’s great advice, Dr. Pemmaraju. I want to thank you for joining us today. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you.  

Dr. Naveen Pemmaraju:

Thank you so much, Katherine, to the team. I love doing these with you, and thanks for doing this good work.   

Katherine Banwell:

Thank you to all of our collaborators. To learn more about myelofibrosis and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for being with us today.  

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What Key Testing Occurs Following an AML Diagnosis?

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What Key Testing Occurs Following an AML Diagnosis? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What key tests occur following an AML diagnosis? Dr. Gail Roboz explains the procedures and tests to confirm the diagnosis, assess disease risk, examine AML genetic markers, and develop a treatment plan.

Dr. Gail Roboz is director of the Clinical and Translational Leukemia Programs and professor of medicine at Weill Cornell Medicine and the New York Presbyterian Hospital. Learn more about Dr. Roboz.
 

Related Resources:

Choosing Therapy | How Are AML Treatment Goals Determined?

Choosing Therapy | How Are AML Treatment Goals Determined?

 Expert Overview | AML Treatment Options and Phases of Therapy

Expert Overview | AML Treatment Options and Phases of Therapy

 What Are AML Inhibitor Therapies and How Do They Work? 

What Are AML Inhibitor Therapies and How Do They Work?

Transcript: 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

We often generally recommend a bone marrow biopsy, even if we know we can make the diagnosis from a blood test, because even though the bone marrow biopsy is not the most fun test in the world, it does offer better information for follow-up care than what you can get initially from the blood. 

So, every once in a while, we do have a patient for whom a bone marrow biopsy itself for whatever reason can’t be done. But almost always, we need a bone marrow biopsy, and on that biopsy, you’re going to look under the microscope and see what the cells look like. You’re going to get back standard testing, which is called flow cytometry, which is going to tell the difference between what are the different cells that you’re seeing under the microscope. 

But then you’re actually going to get progressively much more fancy testing, including things called chromosomes or cytogenetics, and then ultimately, the majority of patients, if at all possible, will be having mutational testing to identify certain subgroups of AML that benefit from very particular treatments. Next-generation sequencing, PCR, fusion proteins, FISH, cytogenetics, I can go on and on with all kinds of terminology that is very confusing, even to hematology fellows, let alone to patients.  

Usually, we use a combination of tests to decide, “Is this patient likely to be able to be cured with chemotherapy alone, or might this patient benefit from a stem cell transplant from somebody else after they go into remission?” 

That’s basically what the prognostic scoring systems used to be asking, but now it’s a lot more complicated than that. Because even in the favorable categories, even in the adverse categories, where there used to be very little subtlety, now there is a lot of subtlety. 

It’s all about defining getting into remission, and what do I give you once you’re in remission to keep you there? It’s no longer this windshield wiper thing of good, bad, transplant, no transplant. There’s a lot more to AML than there used to be.   

Choosing Therapy | How Are AML Treatment Goals Determined?

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Choosing Therapy | How Are AML Treatment Goals Determined? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How are AML treatment goals determined? Dr. Gail Roboz explains the collaborative decision-making process between patients and clinicians when exploring treatment options, important questions to ask about AML treatment goals, and the objectives of the first phase of treatment.

Dr. Gail Roboz is director of the Clinical and Translational Leukemia Programs and professor of medicine at Weill Cornell Medicine and the New York Presbyterian Hospital. Learn more about Dr. Roboz.
 

 

Related Resources:

What Key Testing Occurs Following an AML Diagnosis?

What Key Testing Occurs Following an AML Diagnosis?

 Expert Overview | AML Treatment Options and Phases of Therapy

Expert Overview | AML Treatment Options and Phases of Therapy

 What Are AML Inhibitor Therapies and How Do They Work? 

What Are AML Inhibitor Therapies and How Do They Work?

Transcript: 

Katherine Banwell:

When it comes to choosing therapy for AML, it’s important to work with your healthcare team to identify what will work best for you, the patient. So, I’d like to know how you define shared decision-making.  

Dr. Gail Roboz:

The problem with AML sometimes is that it can be such an acute, emergency-type of presentation and urgent decision-making that I think your question is almost right out of the gate for some patients that will, “Wait, I don’t even have a minute, here. How do I build a team, do the research, look online if people are telling me that I’m in the middle of an emergency?”  

That isn’t always the case for acute leukemia, but it sometimes is. I think that what happens in AML in particular for patients is a building of knowledge and a building of the team, and figuring out, first of all, where am I when I am being told this diagnosis, and is it really an emergency? Do I have to make decisions really right now, because is it life-threatening today, I don’t have time to look around? Or do I have a minute to pause and get more information? 

I definitely feel that with the Internet era and with so much connection between doctors and teams, there is much more ability to reach out instantaneously for doctors, too, to get advice on a patient who might be in a smaller hospital that doesn’t have AML experience. But I think that the first thing is to try to figure out very, very quickly, what needs to happen to me as a patient immediately, and what can wait a minute, so that I can figure out what am I being told, and what are my options? 

Katherine Banwell:

Right, right. It can be confusing for patients, just finding out this new information. Part of making care decisions is setting goals. What are AML treatment goals, and how are they determined?   

Dr. Gail Roboz:

I would say that leaving cure on the table from the beginning is always a good place to start, because you want to figure out, first of all, what am I dealing with? What are the actual options?  

But when AML strikes, and a patient who has multiple medical conditions or comorbidities that are truly compromising function independently of the diagnosis of AML, that’s going to be a special path of what is actually reasonable for someone who is terribly medically ill or otherwise frail right from the beginning? That can be defining goals, but I think from the beginning, the best thing is to leave everything on the table. What can actually be done to make me better, first of all, to get me out of my immediate trouble? What can be done to make me better, and if I’m getting better, well, I like that, how do I stay there?  

What can be done to hang on to the state of ‘better,’ which is sometimes defined as remission? In AML, the goal is to get the bone marrow working again, functioning again, get rid of the acute emergency problem, if there is one, which there may or may not be in acute leukemia. 

Sometimes it’s truly an emergency, and sometimes it isn’t. But once I get better, can I stay there? What is required to keep me with a working bone marrow for as long as possible?  

But once you are starting to sort through the diagnosis, you realize that saying that somebody has acute myeloid leukemia is not telling me nearly enough information. This is a disease that is what we call biologically heterogeneous, which means there are lots of different forms. It’s like saying you’re sick. What exactly does that mean? There are lots of things that can make you sick. There are lots of different subtypes of AML, and fairly quickly in most institutions, we start getting back some information specifically on the subtype and biological characteristics of the disease.  

This can be very, very important in the initial treatment planning, and depending on where you are, the information that you get back can sometimes take 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, a week. So, you start learning very quickly though that, “If I’m not in a complete emergency that requires instantaneous treatment, can I get back more information about the biological subtype of the disease so that I can start treatment planning of what is my best option right out of the gate?” That’s usually called induction, or the first therapy that you’re going to get with the goal, ‘getting rid of leukemia cells and getting into remission.’ That’s part one, and then everything that comes after that is about keeping you in remission.   

But for the initial goal, what is the therapy that the patient needs to get to get into remission? In order to figure that out, the good news is there are a lot of different ways to slice and dice getting into remission, and actually, it used to be such a weighty decision. 

Now, I would actually encourage people to – not relax, you can never use the word ‘relax’ with acute leukemia. But there are several different induction strategies for most patients that would be okay.  

So, even if you get started with one strategy and you hear five days later that another doctor might do something different, there are a lot of ways to safely get into remission. I think everybody should be pleased about the fact that we’re doing much better than we used to for patients across the board, all the way from children to much older adults, to safely getting people into remission. 

Katherine Banwell:

So, what sort of factors then do you take into consideration when you’re choosing a therapy? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

So, out of the gate, there are the patients that I think I referred to earlier who truly, truly are in situations based on their other diseases that there are certain treatments we would just cross out right out of the gate. 

If there are patients with very, very severely compromised cardiac or renal or lung function or are terribly ill from other conditions, AML doctors will right out of the gate for those patients eliminate certain treatments. But absent that scenario, what we try to look for is the biology of the disease. Not look at the age, not look at the comorbidities unless they are so severe that they make obvious certain choices. 

But rather, what I like to do is say, “What kind of AML is this, and what is the best treatment that I have to get this patient into remission?” And then ask the question, “can this particular patient handle this therapy?” Sometimes, these days, there actually may be more than one route to get to remission depending on the biology of the disease, and then, if that’s the case, then I can start getting picky and look at the individual patient. Where does the patient live? Who’s the patient’s family? What other diseases has the patient been treated for?  

Is there something that I can use? If I have a choice, if there are a couple of different things that might work, how do I fit the treatment to best take care of the needs of this particular patient? If I don’t have choices, then my question is, “Okay, how do I get this patient through my one therapy that I think is the truly, truly best option?” 

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Elevate | What You Should Know About Your Role in AML Treatment and Care Decisions from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

How can you elevate your AML care and treatment? AML expert Dr. Gail Roboz discusses the importance of participating in AML treatment decisions, reviews key factors that may impact therapy options, and shares advice for advocating for yourself.
 
Dr. Gail Roboz is director of the Clinical and Translational Leukemia Programs and professor of medicine at Weill Cornell Medicine and the New York Presbyterian Hospital. Learn more about Dr. Roboz.
 

Related Resources:

FLT3 inhibitors for AML Update

 Thriving With AML | Advice for Setting Goals and Making Treatment Decisions

Thriving With AML | Advice for Setting Goals and Making Treatment Decisions

 Expert Advice | Managing AML Symptoms and Treatment Side Effects

Expert Advice | Managing AML Symptoms and Treatment Side Effects

Transcript: 

Katherine Banwell:

Hello, and welcome. I’m your host, Katherine Banwell. It’s no secret that the quality-of-care patients receive can vary, and patients who are educated about their condition and involved in their care may have improved outcomes. That’s why the Patient Empowerment Network created the Elevate series, to help AML patients and their care partners feel well-informed when making treatment decisions with their healthcare team. 

In today’s program, an AML expert will join us to share advice for accessing better overall care. Before we get into the discussion, please remember that this program is not a substitute for seeking medical advice. Please refer to your healthcare team about what might be best for you. Well, let’s meet our guest today. Joining us is Dr. Gail Roboz. Dr. Roboz, would you please introduce yourself? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Gail Roboz. I’m a professor of medicine and director of the clinical and translational leukemia programs at Weill Cornell Medicine and the NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital in New York City. Thank you again for having me. 

Katherine Banwell:

Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. I’d like to start by discussing your role as a researcher. You’re on the frontlines for advancements in the AML field. What led you here, and why is it important to you? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

So, I’m actually asked that question quite frequently, because AML is a challenging, difficult, scary disease, and people don’t necessarily assume that somebody in medical school would gravitate toward it. 

But I have to say that what is incredibly fascinating back then and now about leukemia is the continuous access to the disease. Patients will maybe giggle or groan as I’m saying that, because you can get a blood sample really anytime. You can even get a bone marrow sample anytime, although patients don’t enjoy that so much. 

But from a research perspective, it is absolutely extraordinary to be dealing with a disease where you can, in real time, truly run back and forth to a laboratory and see what’s happening, what is the new drug or the old drug doing, what’s happening with the patient, and I would say that from a fascination of a medical student perspective that grabbed me then and still does today.  

Katherine Banwell:

When it comes to choosing therapy for AML, it’s important to work with your healthcare team to identify what will work best for you, the patient. So, I’d like to know how you define shared decision-making.  

Dr. Gail Roboz:

The problem with AML sometimes is that it can be such an acute, emergency-type of presentation and urgent decision-making that I think your question is almost right out of the gate for some patients that will, “Wait, I don’t even have a minute, here. How do I build a team, do the research, look online if people are telling me that I’m in the middle of an emergency?”  

That isn’t always the case for acute leukemia, but it sometimes is. I think that what happens in AML in particular for patients is a building of knowledge and a building of the team, and figuring out, first of all, where am I when I am being told this diagnosis, and is it really an emergency? Do I have to make decisions really right now, because is it life-threatening today, I don’t have time to look around? Or do I have a minute to pause and get more information? 

I definitely feel that with the Internet era and with so much connection between doctors and teams, there is much more ability to reach out instantaneously for doctors, too, to get advice on a patient who might be in a smaller hospital that doesn’t have AML experience. But I think that the first thing is to try to figure out very, very quickly, what needs to happen to me as a patient immediately, and what can wait a minute, so that I can figure out what am I being told, and what are my options?  

Katherine Banwell:

Right, right. It can be confusing for patients, just finding out this new information. Part of making care decisions is setting goals. What are AML treatment goals, and how are they determined?   

Dr. Gail Roboz:

I would say that leaving cure on the table from the beginning is always a good place to start, because you want to figure out, first of all, what am I dealing with? What are the actual options?   

But when AML strikes, and a patient who has multiple medical conditions or comorbidities that are truly compromising function independently of the diagnosis of AML, that’s going to be a special path of what is actually reasonable for someone who is terribly medically ill or otherwise frail right from the beginning? That can be defining goals, but I think from the beginning, the best thing is to leave everything on the table. What can actually be done to make me better, first of all, to get me out of my immediate trouble? What can be done to make me better, and if I’m getting better, well, I like that, how do I stay there?  

What can be done to hang on to the state of ‘better,’ which is sometimes defined as remission? In AML, the goal is to get the bone marrow working again, functioning again, get rid of the acute emergency problem, if there is one, which there may or may not be in acute leukemia. 

Sometimes it’s truly an emergency, and sometimes it isn’t. But once I get better, can I stay there? What is required to keep me with a working bone marrow for as long as possible? 

But once you are starting to sort through the diagnosis, you realize that saying that somebody has acute myeloid leukemia is not telling me nearly enough information. This is a disease that is what we call biologically heterogeneous, which means there are lots of different forms. It’s like saying you’re sick. What exactly does that mean? There are lots of things that can make you sick. There are lots of different subtypes of AML, and fairly quickly in most institutions, we start getting back some information specifically on the subtype and biological characteristics of the disease.  

This can be very, very important in the initial treatment planning, and depending on where you are, the information that you get back can sometimes take 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, a week. So, you start learning very quickly though that, “If I’m not in a complete emergency that requires instantaneous treatment, can I get back more information about the biological subtype of the disease so that I can start treatment planning of what is my best option right out of the gate?” That’s usually called induction, or the first therapy that you’re going to get with the goal, ‘getting rid of leukemia cells and getting into remission.’ That’s part one, and then everything that comes after that is about keeping you in remission.  

But for the initial goal, what is the therapy that the patient needs to get to get into remission? In order to figure that out, the good news is there are a lot of different ways to slice and dice getting into remission, and actually, it used to be such a weighty decision. 

Now, I would actually encourage people to – not relax, you can never use the word ‘relax’ with acute leukemia. But there are several different induction strategies for most patients that would be okay.  

So, even if you get started with one strategy and you hear five days later that another doctor might do something different, there are a lot of ways to safely get into remission. I think everybody should be pleased about the fact that we’re doing much better than we used to for patients across the board, all the way from children to much older adults, to safely getting people into remission. 

Katherine Banwell:

Right. So, what sort of factors then do you take into consideration when you’re choosing a therapy? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

So, out of the gate, there are the patients that I think I referred to earlier who truly, truly are in situations based on their other diseases that there are certain treatments we would just cross out right out of the gate.  

If there are patients with very, very severely compromised cardiac or renal or lung function or are terribly ill from other conditions, AML doctors will right out of the gate for those patients eliminate certain treatments. But absent that scenario, what we try to look for is the biology of the disease. Not look at the age, not look at the comorbidities unless they are so severe that they make obvious certain choices. 

But rather, what I like to do is say, “What kind of AML is this, and what is the best treatment that I have to get this patient into remission?” And then ask the question, “can this particular patient handle this therapy?” Sometimes, these days, there actually may be more than one route to get to remission depending on the biology of the disease, and then, if that’s the case, then I can start getting picky and look at the individual patient. Where does the patient live? Who’s the patient’s family? What other diseases has the patient been treated for?  

Is there something that I can use? If I have a choice, if there are a couple of different things that might work, how do I fit the treatment to best take care of the needs of this particular patient? If I don’t have choices, then my question is, “Okay, how do I get this patient through my one therapy that I think is the truly, truly best option?” 

Katherine Banwell:

Okay. I’d like to turn to test results for a moment. What sort of tests should be done following an AML diagnosis?  

Dr. Gail Roboz:

We often generally recommend a bone marrow biopsy, even if we know we can make the diagnosis from a blood test, because even though the bone marrow biopsy is not the most fun test in the world, it does offer better information for follow-up care than what you can get initially from the blood. 

So, every once in a while, we do have a patient for whom a bone marrow biopsy itself for whatever reason can’t be done. But almost always, we need a bone marrow biopsy, and on that biopsy, you’re going to look under the microscope and see what the cells look like. You’re going to get back standard testing, which is called flow cytometry, which is going to tell the difference between what are the different cells that you’re seeing under the microscope. 

But then you’re actually going to get progressively much more fancy testing, including things called chromosomes or cytogenetics, and then ultimately, the majority of patients, if at all possible, will be having mutational testing to identify certain subgroups of AML that benefit from very particular treatments. Next-generation sequencing, PCR, fusion proteins, FISH, cytogenetics, I can go on and on with all kinds of terminology that is very confusing, even to hematology fellows, let alone to patients.  

Usually, we use a combination of tests to decide, “Is this patient likely to be able to be cured with chemotherapy alone, or might this patient benefit from a stem cell transplant from somebody else after they go into remission?” 

That’s basically what the prognostic scoring systems used to be asking, but now it’s a lot more complicated than that. Because even in the favorable categories, even in the adverse categories, where there used to be very little subtlety, now there is a lot of subtlety. 

It’s all about defining getting into remission, and what do I give you once you’re in remission to keep you there? It’s no longer this windshield wiper thing of good, bad, transplant, no transplant. There’s a lot more to AML than there used to be. 

Katherine Banwell:

I’d like to add that if you, the viewer, are interested in learning more about AML testing and treatment, PEN has a number of resources available for you. You can find these at powerfulpatients.org/AML, or by scanning the QR code on your screen.  

Before we get into specific treatment types, Dr. Roboz, would you provide a brief explanation of the phases of therapy for AML? You mentioned induction therapy earlier. Would you tell us what that is? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

Yeah. So, here, too, I have to say that it’s more confusing than it used to be for the following reasons. So, historically and currently, we typically talk about induction as the first therapy that you’re going to get to get into remission.  

Then, the treatment paradigm is you do something to get into remission; do some treatment to get into remission. After that, in the realm of post-remission therapy, there are different things that can happen. There can be something called consolidation, which might be another round of chemotherapy. Some patients get consolidation, some patients don’t. After consolidation, there can be a transplant.  

So, you get into remission, you may or may not get a little bit of what’s called consolidation chemotherapy, and then go on to a transplant. 

However, sometimes either after the transplant or after chemotherapy before ever getting or instead of ever getting a transplant, there might be ongoing treatment in a lower intensity ongoing basis that is called maintenance.  

So, you’ve got to think about it as induction as what happens first, consolidation is something that happens when you’re in remission, and then maintenance usually refers to ongoing therapy that is different from consolidation. 

It’s usually lower intensity, easier to take, oral types of treatment that may go on and on. And just to be incredibly confusing, it’s different from something like breast cancer, where often the patients are given, “You get six cycles of this, and then you’re done.” From AML, there’s actually often not that type of an obvious plan right out of the gate for the patient. 

The answer will be, “It depends.” It depends. It depends how your treatment looks at this point in time. It depends how you look at this point in time. 

So then, the patients say, “Well, aren’t you going to cure me of this? What are you doing? Aren’t you going to get rid of it?” So, historically, there are some patients who get cured with chemotherapy. They get chemotherapy to get into remission, they get some chemotherapy afterwards, and there’s a cure rate for some patients with that. The majority of patients who are cured with AML get an allotransplant, or a transplant from somebody else. 

Then there’s a whole group of patients where we’re asking the question now, is it possible to get those patients beyond five years – so in oncology, five years is typically defined as cure. Can we get some patients with ongoing therapy to that past-five-year mark without a transplant? That’s in the zone of the ‘coming soon.’ Don’t have a ton of patients in that group right now, but hopefully we will. 

Katherine Banwell:

You’ve mentioned some various treatment types that are used to treat AML. Can you share a brief overview of available treatments? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

So, the terminology that we use is a little bit annoying, because it is a little bit general. We say intensive and not intensive. 

But historically, intensive chemotherapy referred to a combination of generally two types of agents, cytarabine (Cytosar-U) and an anthracycline, which is a class of chemotherapy, that either just those two together or in combination with sometimes a third or a fourth drug usually keeps people in the hospital for around a month. Not that the chemotherapy takes that long, but the treatment gets rid of basically a lot of cells in the bone marrow, good guys and bad guys, and it takes about three weeks for those normal cells to recover. 

So, a standard intensive induction for AML is often around three to four weeks in the hospital, somewhere between three and five or so days of chemotherapy up front, depending on exactly what the protocol is. The classic regimen is actually still called 3+7, three days of one drug, seven of the other. But there are many variations of that that work. 

The chemo is then stopped, the patient hangs out in the hospital, very frequently getting transfusions and antibiotics, and we wait for the bone marrow to recover.  

Another current path that many patients are getting – almost all older patients, with ‘older’ being defined not by a specific age cutoff, but often 75 and older, almost everybody agrees no longer gets the classic chemotherapy that I just described. At some institutions, that 75 is going down, and even 70 and 65 and above are getting a new type of therapy, mostly because the new type of therapy is working pretty well. That is a combination of something called a hypomethylating agent.  

Drugs like azacitidine (Vidaza, Onureg) or decitabine (Dacogen) in combination with a pill that has changed the landscape of AML more than any other called venetoclax (Venclexta). Venetoclax is a drug that is not exclusively used for AML. 

It actually was originally approved for another type of leukemia. But I think that not many people would argue with the statement that what has changed absolutely the face of AML treatment has been this drug, because it’s a BCL2 inhibitor. What it does is it actually – cancer cells and leukemia cells in particular are very, very good at staying alive.  

They don’t undergo cell death, they don’t want to die, and venetoclax brings down their forcefield so that those cells can actually undergo apoptosis and die. 

Venetoclax in combination with azacitidine or decitabine has transformed the care of the disease, because many patients older than 65 – and the median age of diagnosis of AML is around 68 to 70. So, many patients never were well enough to have the intensive therapy. They weren’t going into remission, and they weren’t having prolonged survival often beyond a few months. 

But now, those patients do actually much better with the combination of aza [azacitidine] and venetoclax. So typically, the induction path is going to be deciding who gets an intensive therapy backbone, usually associated with long hospitalization. Who gets a less intensive backbone – by the way, that is often associated with just the same hospitalization. So, that’s why I don’t love the term ‘low intensity,’ because that implies that it doesn’t work.  

It does, and it also implies that you’re not going to be in the hospital. You probably will, because in the same way as for the more so-called intensive therapies, getting into remission involves getting rid of bone marrow cells and waiting for the normal ones to recover. Even if you are a patient who is getting the venetoclax combined with the azacitidine or decitabine, which is typically called low intensity, you may very well be in the hospital for a month. 

Because depending on where you live and who your family is and how sick you might be, you will probably want us to watch you carefully during that first month, but it’s worth it. Because if you have a good chance of getting into remission, remission is what makes life better and life longer. So, we want to get patients into remission, even if it means upfront time in the hospital. 

Katherine Banwell:

You mentioned one inhibitor as targeted therapy, but there are a couple of others. Would you briefly tell us about those? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

So, over the years recently, we have identified certain specific targets in AML which are resulting in the addition of medications on these standard backbones. So, the target for venetoclax is something called BCL2, and actually, venetoclax probably makes all chemotherapy better. It’s kind of a controversial statement, but I’m going to stand by it. But in AML, it has been shown that the addition of venetoclax to lots of different backbones makes them work better. There are other things to hit, though.  

For example, there are patients with AML who have something called a FLT3, F-L-T-3 mutation. This mutation also has specific inhibitors that are FDA-approved drugs that target specifically the FLT3 mutation, and if you have one of those, your doctor may add on a FLT3 inhibitor to either a lower intensity or an intensive backbone. Similarly, there are agents called IDH inhibitors. There are IDH1 and IDH2 inhibitors. 

If I start getting into isocitrate dehydrogenase pathways on this webinar, I think everybody will click off, because it’s certainly bored all of the medical students in med school, and it’s pretty tough to understand. But the bottom line is it’s very cool stuff because that boring pathway in medical school that nobody really thought about too much is actually part of very, very, central cellular functions that are a vulnerability now that have been identified in leukemic cells that, if you hit them with these specific inhibitors, patients do better.  

Now, couple of things for patients. It doesn’t mean that it’s better to have a FLT3 or an IDH mutation because the targeted therapies are available. So, a lot of patients are disappointed when they don’t have mutations. I don’t want you to think in that way. It’s not that it’s better, it’s different.  

It identifies a different biology. If you have certain mutations, there are certain medications that may help you more.  

That’s why I think the patients are learning quickly, too, to ask the doc – they may not remember the letters of the alphabet soup, but “Do I have something about my AML that can get one of these targeted therapies added on?” I think is a good question to think about. “Do I have something about my disease that has a specific drug that we’ve already learned makes outcomes better?”  

Katherine Banwell:

There’s a new emerging therapy as well. Is it the menin inhibitor? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

I think that, in understanding different targets and different pathways, it leads me to a general statement that if you can get yourself potentially onto a clinical trial at an academic center, that is something to consider right out of the gate. Because there is a lot, a lot, a lot going on in this field right now. 

What we are hoping, and the reason that I am talking to you about venetoclax and FLT3 inhibitors and IDH inhibitors, is because of all the patients who jumped onto those clinical trials and proved that those drugs are better. Some of them are my patients! I was fortunate on some of those early trials to have some real winners in patients who got onto the trials. They’re the ones who drove the success. 

So, for example, menin inhibitors, which are very, very exciting, targeted agents for NPM1 and KMT2A mutations and rearrangements – these are complicated to remember as a patient, but there’s a cool drug out there that might be for you. I think that patients who really think about asking the question wherever they are, the “Hey, I just got a diagnosis of AML. Is there a clinical trial that might look good for me?” I think is a great question to ask pretty much out of the gate. 

Katherine Banwell:

The symptoms of AML as well as the side effects of certain medications can vary greatly among patients. So, how do you approach symptom management with your patients? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

Patients will giggle because I repeat this line. You have to be afraid of the disease, not the treatment. I think that if you read the package insert on a Tylenol, you’re certainly not going  to think you’re going to live for more than 20 minutes if you take one of those. You can certainly appreciate that, with chemotherapy drugs and including some of the novel agents that I’m talking about, if you read package inserts and look at some of the signs and symptoms and things that can happen, it’s extraordinarily overwhelming. 

I think that a lot of what I do for patients is I keep them close. Because if the patient is in the hospital or coming in very frequently in clinic, I think that that everyday assessment of, “What are you experiencing?” and “What can I tell you is the disease’s fault, and what can I tell you is the medication’s fault?” is so, so important. 

Especially in the newly diagnosed patients, where the disease is active. Of course, we want to try to minimize anything that we can do to make the process better for patients, more comfortable for patients, but there are certain things that we do tell people, “You’ve got to slug through this particular problem, because this is the disease’s fault.” This is different from a patient in remission, where they might be getting ongoing therapy with something, or we say, “Hey, wait a minute. You’d be feeling fine, except now you’re taking this medication. How do we minimize messing up quality of life in remission?” 

Because we want you to feel great when you’re in remission. I think the real answer of that is to have a really close collaboration with the healthcare team, and for the patients to really understand – I repeat this because it’s so important. What is the disease’s fault, and what is the treatment’s fault? If there’s something that is therapy-related, do I have a substitute or do I not have a substitute?  

Because if the drug is essential to get us where we need to go, well, what can we do to manage comfort and to manage symptoms until you get to the place where your marrow is working again? 

Katherine Banwell:

That’s great advice, Dr. Roboz. I would like to get to an audience question that we received prior to the program. This one comes from Johanna. “How can I better understand my lab test results? What questions should I be asking my provider about those results?”  

Dr. Gail Roboz:

One of the things that I would say to patients is to be careful when interpreting your own results, because I really am not exaggerating to say that patients have had absolute trauma looking at things that I look at it and say, “Oh, this looks great.” So, the first thing is, be careful being your own doctor. 

The second thing though is that the author of the question has to understand that there’s going to be a tsunami of data coming in with respect to AML treatment. Sometimes in the hospital on a daily basis when you’re in the middle of an induction, there is a true – tsunami is the right word – a deluge of data, and you have to work with your team to say, “What am I following here? What’s important at this phase in my treatment? What’s the number I’m looking at?” Patients sometimes tell me, “I don’t want to know any of this,” and I’m fine with that.  

I think it’s actually okay. Sometimes patients will say, “Give me guidance,” and I will be specific. Because you can actually have a leukemia induction patient where every single laboratory value is abnormal. They might be getting pushed to a device, in the morning, sitting in the hospital on your iPad, 50 abnormal results. You’re trying to battle back the disease and be positive and advocate for yourself, but there are 50 abnormal results in front of you. 

I think you have to really work with the team to say, “What am I looking at today? What are the numbers that are the really important ones? There are 50 abnormal ones here; everything is getting a yellow or a red light in this. How do I go through this?”  

And to appreciate, also, that at different points in the treatment, the beginning of treatment induction post-remission therapy, you’re looking for different things. So, work with your team so that you’re not assessing every single result with equivalent weight, because I think you’re going to stress yourself out.  

Katherine Banwell:

That’s great advice, Dr. Roboz. Thank you. As we close out the program, I’d like to find out what you would like to leave the audience with. Why are you hopeful? 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

AML is changing incredibly rapidly. And  I can tell you it is a lot more fun to be an AML doctor now than it used to be, with respect to what I am offering for patients. We have always fought really, really hard to have our wins, but we’re winning more. I do think that it is a complicated space to navigate for patients, but there is room for a lot of optimism. 

I think we are getting patients transplanted  –  patients that we never thought would ever go through a transplant or getting transplanted. Patients who never had a chance of even living more than six or eight months or living much longer than that. Is it perfect? No. Do we have as many cures as we want?  

No, but there’s a lot going on. I think if patients feel that excitement, they will also feel the need to ask about those clinical trials. Because I think that for a lot of patients, clinical trials is an area where they would be worried. They’re not sure that they want to. “I don’t want to be a guinea pig,” and yet here I can say in the AML space, one after another after another drug approvals in the last several years, with the patients on those trials being awfully happy that they participated. 

So, I think that it’s a very, very terrifying diagnosis. There’s nothing that I can do to take the sting out of that. But try to find yourself in an optimistic place with options that are being offered to the very, very, very best that we can do. There are patients who are listening, I’m sure, who have relapsed or refractory disease who are not feeling that optimism. 

I want to address you specifically, because we don’t have enough yet. We’re trying. When you have AML that has come back or come back multiply, that’s dangerous and difficult. But for those patients in particular, try really hard to get onto clinical trials. If the drugs that we have out there – if you’ve already taken them and they haven’t worked for you or if they’re not serving you well, if you’re in good shape and the drugs that we have aren’t good enough, well, let’s see if we can get you on something that’s investigational. 

Katherine Banwell:

Dr. Roboz, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. 

Dr. Gail Roboz:

Thank you for having me. 

Katherine Banwell:

I also want to thank all of our collaborators. To learn more about AML and to access tools to help you become a proactive patient, visit powerfulpatients.org. I’m Katherine Banwell. Thanks for joining us today.  

What Is the Role of Bone Marrow Biopsies in AML Treatment?

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What Is the Role of Bone Marrow Biopsies in AML Treatment? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What part do bone marrow biopsies play in acute myeloid leukemia (AML) treatment? Expert Dr. Andrew Hantel from Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Harvard Medical School discusses the value and information gained from bone marrow biopsies, how AML characteristics can vary, and his hopes for the future of bone marrow biopsies.

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Transcript: 

Lisa Hatfield:

Dr. Hantel, can you explain the importance in utility of bone marrow biopsy as it relates to treatment?

Dr. Andrew Hantel:

Yeah, so bone marrow biopsies are one of the mainstays of our ability to understand where somebody’s leukemia is. And what I mean by that is somebody’s leukemia can be newly diagnosed, and we need to get a lot of the information about it. It can be somebody who’s after treatment, and we need to understand if their leukemia has responded to that treatment.

And that can take the form of, did the treatment work well enough to clear out all of the leukemia cells? And also after somebody’s blood counts have come back after the treatment has been completed, are only their good blood cells back, or has the kind of leukemia not responded adequately to treatment? And relative to the normal tubes of blood that we can get quite easily, a bone marrow biopsy,  which we don’t like to do unless it’s necessary, is something where we have a lot of additional information that we can obtain. And it’s both information that we can’t obtain from the blood and also kind of information that we can get to kind of a different degree of specificity than we can in the blood.

And so a little bit more specifically, what I mean by that is sometimes people’s blood counts will look relatively okay, and there can be a good amount of leukemia still in their bone marrow. And other times, the person’s leukemia can be in remission, but their blood counts can look low and abnormal.

And so we need to be able to tell which of those things is actually happening. And if we could tell that without doing bone marrow biopsies, we would do that every time. But, unfortunately, the bone marrow is kind of a little bit of a harbor compared to the bloodstream. And so to be able to actually look and see what’s happening kind of in the factory is really necessary. And there’s a lot of additional tests that we’re able to run, because that’s where kind of the cells are produced, and we can see at a much lower level if there’s are any hints of leukemia left.

There’s more and more interest in kind of getting good testing from the blood. And so that’s a very active area of investigation. And to be able to do that in the future, I really hope there’s a day where we don’t have to do bone marrow biopsies. But for right now, our only ability to tell how well we’re doing with somebody’s leukemia treatment is to be able to…it’s to do bone marrow biopsies and obtain kind of that really granular specific and kind of deep dive detail.

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Understanding Myeloma Testing and Monitoring | An Overview

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Understanding Myeloma Testing and Monitoring | An Overview from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What should patients know about myeloma treatment and testing? Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi shares an overview of myeloma testing and discusses the importance of getting key questions answered by your healthcare team. 

Dr. Sikander Ailawadhi is a hematologist and oncologist specializing in myeloma at Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida. Learn more about Dr. Ailawadhi.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

What sort of tests should be done following a myeloma diagnosis?   

Dr. Ailawadhi:

Generally, when myeloma is suspected, we need to know what the basic blood counts are, something that is called a CBC, complete blood count. We’re looking for anemia, low white blood cells, low clotting cells, or platelets. We want to do serum chemistries or blood chemistries, looking for kidney function, liver function, electrolytes, calcium, et cetera.  

Then, we want to do some kind of an imaging of the body. Generally, routine X-rays are no longer done, and the most preferred is a PET-CT scan, a PET scan. We do PET-MRIs frequently. So, there are different tests available, but you want a good test to know what’s the state of bones and presence of any lesions or tumors. And then, the important question comes is doing a bone marrow biopsy.   

The reason for doing a bone marrow biopsy, and even if somebody has had a biopsy done from a compression fracture, et cetera, that diagnosed myeloma, a bone marrow biopsy still should be done. It gives us a lot of pieces of information.  

It tells us what is the percentage of plasma cells in the bone marrow. So, what is the disease burden we are starting with? Secondly, that bone marrow biopsy specimen can be sent for what is called a FISH testing, which is fluorescent in situ hybridization.  

It is basically looking for any mutations in the cancer cells. Based on those mutations, myeloma can be classified into standard or high-risk myeloma. And sometimes our treatment choices are differed based on whether somebody is standard or high-risk. So, blood work, basic counts – and I skipped over one of the things. Right after chemistries, I wanted to add also are myeloma markers.  

There are typically three lab tests of myeloma markers. One is called protein electrophoresis. It can be run in blood and urine. Ideally, it should be run in both. One is immunoglobulin levels, which gives us the level of IgG, IgA, IgM, et cetera. And the third one is serum-free light chains, which is kappa and lambda light chains. Neither one – none of these tests eliminates the needs for the other.

So, everybody, in the beginning, should have complete blood count, blood chemistries, SPEP or serum protein electrophoresis, urine electrophoresis, immunoglobulins, light chains, imaging, and then a bone marrow. This completes the workup. Then, based on that, the treatment can be determined.  

 Katherine:

Well, you mentioned lab work. How often should tests and blood work be done?   

Dr. Ailawadhi:

Good question. Very, very important question because we see very frequently that the patients come in, they’re getting treatment somewhere, and every single time the patient steps foot in the door of that institution or wherever they’re going, they got a blood draw. That’s how they start their day. It’s needed more frequently in the beginning but needed less frequently later on.

Generally, the myeloma markers, those protein electrophoresis, immunoglobulins, light chains, they are frequently done just about every month. Generally, in myeloma, one month, three to four weeks is one cycle. So, at the beginning of every cycle, you want to know how good your response was. So, the myeloma markers once a month.  

The blood counts and chemistries in the first month, first one to two months, they can be done every other week or so just to make sure counts are fine, no need for transfusions, kidney/liver is okay, et cetera. But after the first couple of months, when the body is used to the drugs when the patient is settled with the treatment, frankly, once-a-month labs are good enough. We don’t really need labs on every single treatment visit. Because the other thing that happens is some of these drugs can lower the blood counts normally during treatment, but they have a rest period at the end of the cycle when the counts recover.   

So, if somebody does labs in the middle of the cycle when the counts are expected to be down but not an issue, treatments are stopped, and growth factors are given. And this is done, but that is not really necessary. So, first couple of one to two cycles, maybe every other week to make sure counts are okay. Myeloma markers monthly, but after the first couple of months when things are settled, once a month should be sufficient. 

Katherine:

Okay. What questions should patients be asking about their test results?    

Dr. Ailawadhi:

Yeah. Very, very, very important. In fact, whenever I’m speaking in a patient caregiver symposium or anything, I spend a lot of time on these test results because frankly, a lot of times it sounds like jargon and the people talk about, “Oh, my ratio is going up,” or the doctor is saying, “Hey, your immunoglobulins are normal. You’re in remission.” But so, I think the patients need to understand and ask from their doctors, “What is my marker of the disease that you will be following?” And I’ll tell you that immunoglobulins, that IgG or IgA level, is nearly never the marker. It’s either M spike or light chains, generally one of those.  

So, the patients need to understand what is their marker. They also need to know what did their bone marrow show. What was the percentage and what was the FISH result or cytogenetic result? I think other than the tests, I will also add the patients need to ask their doctor a lot of these questions that you’re asking me. How frequently are the labs going to be done? Why is it important?  Why was a certain treatment selected? What is the expected outcome? What are the chances that I can go into remission? How long does the intense treatment stay?  

When does it go to some kind of a maintenance? Et cetera, et cetera. Basically, you want to understand everything about the disease and its treatment. It is overwhelming. This is a lot of information. A lot of times the patients may say, “Well, I got a diagnosis. I got a treatment started. I just need to move on.”  That’s right. But once you spend all that time initially understanding your diagnosis and the treatment and the disease, it’ll make the rest of the journey much, much easier.  

Personalized Medicine for Myeloma Treatment | What Patients Should Know

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Personalized Medicine for Myeloma Treatment | What Patients Should Know from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What is personalized medicine, and how can myeloma patients access this type of care? Myeloma expert Dr. Omar Nadeem defines personalized medicine and shares how test results can impact myeloma care and treatment options.

Dr. Omar Nadeem is the Clinical Director of the Myeloma Immune Effector Cell Therapy Program and Associate Director of the Multiple Myeloma Clinical Research Program at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. Learn more about Dr. Nadeem.

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Transcript:

Katherine:

Well, Dr. Nadeem, we’ve been hearing the term personalized medicine more frequently in recent years. How would you define personalized medicine for myeloma, and how can patients access this type of care?  

Dr. Nadeem:

Yeah, personalized medicine or precision medicine is a term that we’ve really sort of used for many oncologic conditions over the last decade or so. I would say, for multiple myeloma, in terms of identifying a target within the myeloma cell that’s unique to the patient. 

And then deploying a certain therapy to that patient because of that target is still lacking. We do have one example where patients have, for example, an 11;14 translocation, which we see in about 15 percent of myeloma patients.  

There’s an agent called venetoclax (Venclexta) that is very active against that particular cohort of patients, although that is still not approved to be used, but that’s one example where that agent specifically benefits that type of myeloma. Other than that, most of the therapies that we have benefit essentially everybody with myeloma, which is great, but it’s not so personalized.  

Where I would say there’s the most personalization happening now, at least in my practice, is looking at which types of therapies an individual patient may receive. What I mean by that is if somebody’s in an excellent response, with quadruplet-based induction therapy, I have a very real discussion with them about the pros and cons of stem cell transplant.  

We make those decisions in real time depending on how the patient doing, depending on how their response is.  

And then kind of deciding a whole kind of what are the kind of risks and benefits and what makes sense for that individual patient. Similarly, when you go on to maintenance therapy, maintenance therapy means that after you’ve gone through the initial phase of your myeloma therapy and the disease is under control, what type of therapy can we keep you on to keep it under control for as long as possible? Historically, that has been lenalidomide or Revlimid. Now we’re adding drugs such as daratumamab (Darzalex) and other agents to Revlimid to see if that can further prolong the response to that initial therapy.  

So, all those decisions are so individualized that you have to discuss with your provider what makes sense for you and what are the pros and cons of doing one approach versus the other.   

Katherine:

Well, if we’re talking about in-depth testing, how do the results of that testing affect treatment options? 

Dr. Nadeem:

So, right now we use conventional blood tests to get a sense of response in the vast majority of patients. That includes the serum protein electrophoresis and the serum free light chain assay.  

Most patients have detectable levels of these proteins, abnormal proteins in the blood at diagnosis and then you can follow them using a blood test. There’s a subset of patients that have disease only that shows up on scans. So, we then kind of incorporate some of those scans and then, also, utilize the bone marrow results both in the beginning and in subsequent analyses to kind of give a big-picture composite response assessment for that particular patient. Nowadays, there are also other tools that we’re using, such as MRD, or minimal residual disease.  

That is a test that is done on a bone marrow biopsy to determine, if you don’t have detectable protein in the blood, do you have myeloma cells present at the deepest level possible? And if you do versus if you don’t, trials have shown that there is a difference in terms of prognosis. Now, while that hasn’t fully been utilized yet to make treatment decisions in patients that are not on clinical trials, we do get prognostic information out of it, and nowadays, more and more of those trials are using these MRD tests to determine what to do with treatment.  

And I think that’s how it’s going to be in the future. So, having those extra tests available but, again, important to discuss with your provider what is the utility of this test. How are we going to use this information for your individual case to make some decisions? 

How Is AML Care Impacted by Bone Marrow Biopsy Results? 

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How Is AML Care Impacted by Bone Marrow Biopsy Results? from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What is the impact of bone marrow biopsy results on AML care? Expert Dr. Sara Taveras Alam from UTHealth Houston shares how test results are weighed along with patient factors to set a treatment plan and discusses additional patient monitoring, relapse, and how treatment journeys may vary.

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Transcript: 

Lisa Hatfield:

Dr. Taveras, how does the information gathered from a bone marrow biopsy influence treatment decisions for AML care?

Dr. Sara Taveras Alam:

The information gathered from bone marrow biopsies is crucial to decide on the optimal treatment for our patients. We do take into consideration patient factors such as age, comorbidities, and fitness to decide on the treatment that the patient benefits from; however, they are leukemia specific factors, mainly the driving forces behind that leukemia and mutations that may prompt us to use one treatment or another,  so that initial diagnostic bone marrow biopsy is crucial to get the patient started on a treatment course, and then typically, three to four weeks after starting treatment, patients would require what is called a post-induction bone marrow biopsy, so that we can assess the response to treatment, so at that second biopsy, what we’re hoping to see is a patient in a remission, whereas the initial biopsy for an AML patient may have had more than 20 percent blasts or immature cancer cells of AML. 

Our goal is that at this end of induction, three to four weeks after starting chemo, the bone marrow shows less than 5 percent blasts, and then we would call that a morphologic remission. In addition, we would be obtaining the chromosome analysis and mutation testing again on those marrows after treatment, because we would love to achieve the highest response possible where we not only eliminate the bad cells, but we are eliminating the driving forces of these bad cells.

So in an ideal situation where our induction treatment does lead into a remission, AML patients still need to undergo what we call consolidation chemotherapy to maintain a remission. Unfortunately, we know that if we stop treatment, our patients with AML will relapse, and the maintenance treatments depending on the regimen, we may have a stop day at four months or six months, depending on the regimen used, and at different time points during the treatment, a bone marrow biopsy may be repeated.

I think the most crucial time for bone marrow biopsies are at the diagnosis and after induction, if we have achieved our goal to achieve remission, then the bone marrow biopsy may be repeated monthly, depending on the institution that the patient is going to.

However, that part is negotiable depending on the patient’s goals and wishes. If the patient were planned for a stem cell transplant because of the characteristics of their leukemia…if it’s a more aggressive type of acute myeloid leukemia, what we call intermediate or poor risk acute myeloid leukemia, a stem cell transplant is recommended, and before proceeding with a stem cell transplant, we must confirm that the patient continues to be in a remission, so that’s another crucial time point to repeat the bone marrow biopsy in addition to the beginning of induction, so they’re getting a diagnosis and the end of that first induction treatment.

The time points between those two are kind of negotiable, especially in patients that have a lot of trouble with the biopsies, but may be very beneficial to confirm that we are keeping the patient into remission and carry the prognosis of the patient.

Of course, if there’s any concern that there’s a relapse, that would be another reason to repeat a bone marrow biopsy, and while confirmed that there has been a relapse and see what characteristics of the AML has changed, and what treatment would be appropriate at that time frame. Once a patient has been in remission, completed their maintenance treatment potentially received a stem cell transplant if it was appropriate for them, usually patients are surveillance clinic followed up, and a bone marrow biopsy is advisable for their first few years, about every three months to confirm that we’re maintaining a remission and that no further action is needed.

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AML Diagnosis | Exploring Bone Marrow Biopsy and Alternatives

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AML Diagnosis | Exploring Bone Marrow Biopsy and Alternatives from Patient Empowerment Network on Vimeo.

What are the purpose and alternatives to bone marrow biopsy? Expert Dr. Sara Taveras Alam from UTHealth Houston explains what’s involved in bone marrow biopsy, what is analyzed, patient advice for the procedure, and alternative testing methods.

[ACT]IVATION Tip

“…ask the providers what to expect from the bone marrow in the facility where you are in. Usually in all facilities, lidocaine, or local anesthesia is used, but if you foresee that in general, you are anxious about procedures or susceptible to pain, you are welcome to request for some medications for pain and anxiety to help you get through that procedure, and generally, once patients have undergone a first bone marrow biopsy, they know what to expect and what accommodations may be needed for them in subsequent bone marrow biopsies.”

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Transcript: 

Lisa Hatfield:

Dr. Taveras, what specific features are pathologists looking for in the bone marrow sample when diagnosing AML, and are there any alternative diagnostic methods or tests available for AML besides a bone marrow biopsy?

Dr. Sara Taveras Alam:

And that is a great question. I think that many patients may be scared of what bone marrow biopsy entails. It is a procedure after all, and it can be painful. I do know that they’re able to get some details about the diagnosis from the peripheral blood just from blood tests alone; however, the best diagnosis is performed through the bone marrow biopsy, so it can provide more information about the email, than what we’re able to obtain from the blood, sometimes the blood count, the white blood cell counts are elevated in AML and that may make it easy to do some of our testing from the blood work, but in other patients, the white blood cells may be low at presentation and that can make it very difficult to obtain any meaningful diagnostic and prognostic information without a bone marrow biopsy.

The bone marrow biopsy would also allow to tell if the patient had a preceding blood disorder like a myeloid dysplasia and this may have treatment implications. This is not something that we would be able to tell from the blood alone unfortunately, so when our pathologists look at the bone marrow sample, they are looking at some of the blood that is obtained from that boom marrow space where the blood is produced, and a tiny piece of the bone from there as well, and they’re looking at the amount of cells, especially the normal red cells, the normal white blood cells, normal platelets, and specifically the abnormal white blood cells or blasts that are quantified in a percentage fashion to diagnose the AML.

There are also different types of blasts, so they may be able to sub-classify the AML from just looking at the morphology or how these cells look under the microscope. There are many ancillary tests that are performed on the sample as well to look into the genetics for the driving forces behind the acute myeloid leukemia.

We look at a chromosome analysis to see what the chromosomes are for the leukemia. We look at mutations during FISH testing, and we do molecular testing that are looking at specific point mutations that may be associated with AML and provide insight into the treatment options as well as the prognosis, the patient’s disease, and whether or not they may benefit from a stem cell transplant to increase the chances of maintaining a remission and obtaining a cure.

My advice for patients who may be anxious about the bone marrow biopsy would be to voice their concerns for their providers. I believe that different centers have different practices as it relates to pre-medication, so some places may provide anxiety medications and pain medications in advance of the procedure, but some other facilities may not. So my activation tip for this question is to ask the providers what to expect from the bone marrow in the facility where you are in.

Usually in all facilities, lidocaine, or local anesthesia is used, but if you foresee that in general, you are anxious about procedures or susceptible to pain, you are welcome to request for some medications for pain and anxiety to help you get through that procedure, and generally, once patients have undergone a first bone marrow biopsy, they know what to expect and what accommodations may be needed for them in subsequent bone marrow biopsies.

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